Must Resist...Don't Want To Be A Douche Bag...

by 54 replies
66
Hey Everyone,

I find myself in a bit of a delima, and I'm looking for some opinions, and maybe some thoughts on something.

I've been involved in the MMO niche for just about 2 years now, and along the way, have built a list, some trust, and a bit of a following to some extent.

In all that time, I've never given into the whole promote products as an affiliate deal, for a couple reasons.

1. The launches are usually so short, you really don't have time to buy them, and try them out before recommending them.

2. So many people doing it are just blatant douche bags meaning that they have no shame in blasting out 3 promotions a day for 3 different products pretty much saying the hell with their list as long as the get paid.

3. It was never really my (our) intention to be involved in the IM niche to that degree and extent.

The "problem" that I'm having and the reason that I'm even considering this again is that over the past 2 months, we have gotten probably somewhere around 25 emails from subscribers asking what we thought about a certain product and if we had an affiliate link. These were high end launches that paid commissions of approx $1,000 each, and I'm willing to bet that the folks went ahead and purchased anyway just from someone elses link.

My whole thought process here is this:

I know the way that the launch whores are perceived when they jump on every launch and promote just so someone else will promote them. At the end of they day they will say that they are doing it to try and "help" people, but it's pretty obvious that their intention is to sell products...whether they are good or bad.

What I'd really like to get here is some feedback from people as to the best way to promote the launches without being a launch whore and douche bag...

Would a simple disclosure something along the lines of:

I've never used this product, and don't really know how good it is, but here's my affiliate link be good enough?

To date, I've never promoted any sort of launch. If I buy something and I like it, I will typically send an email and give a link to the product with NO AFFILIATE LINK and most of the time without the product owner even knowing that I did it.

Edit Correction: I did one time send out a promotion for a $30 product from Kevin Riley with an affiliate link...
#main internet marketing discussion forum #bag #douche #resistdont
  • Yep, honesty and openess is good enough.

    Maybe add that buyers pass on their honest comments to you and you'll pass them along in the future.
  • If people are coming to you for advice after the launch, why not differentiate yourself by providing quality reviews after it has 'hit the shelves'?

    I pretty much ignore the mass launched products because it is practically impossible to get an honest opinion on the quality. I guess there is going to be a limited supply available so you can't delay your review too long.

    If you can get your list used to the idea that if they wait a few days after launch they will have a true review you should get an amazing response. They will know that if you say its good then it must be good!

    edit: you could still warm them up/notify them of the pending release and all the other launch tactics so they know the review is coming.

    If you can warn them about poor products too...
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    • The problem is most of the time the launches only last for a couple of days, so if you're not in the game pre-launch and for the initial 48 hours probably, you more than likely aren't going to be that effective...I could be wrong though.

      At the end of the day, I'll probably just steer clear of it, just trying to see if there is a "good" way to do it.
      • [1] reply

    • Jeremy: A great point was made here....

      If on the big launch day, you told your readers to hold judgment until you have been able to collect some honest reviews, people trust you enough to wait for your reviews and they will be more than happy to use your affiliate link, because you gave them something no one else would -- an honest, non-hype filled review of the product...

      If you played your cards this way, you would engender more trust from your readers, AND you would not look like a douche bag...
  • I must be thinking of the wrong type of MMO niche...
  • As the "leader" of the pack, how about let them know that you're going to buy it first and study it and if you like it recommend it. Give an in depth review etc of the product. Get them to perhaps visit your blog for a full video review or blog post of some sort. If the product is bad then say why its bad. Then give you go ahead.

    Who cares if the price is time sensitive because if they got that money to spend in the first place then abit extra isn't gonna do harm and it would save them the time going through it. By you spending the time to go through it you'll be compensated when you do recommend a product.

    Of course the best products are ones that are not limited ie a coaching course etc but actual ebooks and videos courses.

    If only there were more than 24 hours per day I'd gladly go through the course.

    Best regards
    Michael
  • Well - that blew your rep with me Jeremy

    I'm glad you don't want to go the launch whore route - but think courtesan instead .

    I don't recommend, and like you don't like, the massive amounts of email sent out before/during a launch. But I would have no problem receiving an email from you or Don about the launch - some words of wisdom and caution etc - and then with the above disclaimer you're affiliate link. Paul Myers has sent out issues of talk biz drawing folks attention to some of the good and bad parts of launches which I've welcomed.

    I've seen Martin Avis do this sometimes too with an affiliate link and without angering the vast majority of his list and believe you can do this too. Now there's always a sour puss in every crowd/list so I'm sure you realize someone will get upset - but that's life.

    I'd recommend a low key approach but see nothing wrong with promoting something - we're marketers for crying out loud. But only you can decide if the product is ok or an absolute scam. Given our interactions together I don't see you promoting Sh*t for the sake of a buck - but as long as you're up front I see nothing wrong with a promotion now and then - just don't start spamming my rear with affiliate links

    my $0.02 anyways,
    --Jack
  • I don't think that your bolded phrase would give me much
    confidence that you cared about me as a subscriber or
    buyer.

    It's kinda like saying - I don't care enough about you to
    check this one out for you - but I'll happily take the
    affiliate commission.

    There's a simple way not to be perceived as a launch
    douchebag... don't be one of them.

    If you sleep with dogs, you end up with fleas.

    As a marketer, one of my key tasks is to continually
    be pereceived as being different from my competitors
    and uniquely beneficial to my prospects and customers.

    Jumping on the launch bandwaggon is just not worth
    it for me - no matter how juicy the commissions appear
    to be.

    Dedicated to your success,

    Shaun
    • [ 7 ] Thanks
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    • You are very good at differentiating yourself from the rest. I love being on your list, keep it up.

      Cheers
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    • /thread

      Lots of good info here in the thread, but Shauns post really hit the nail on the head the more I think about it.
  • Jeremy, just tell your list members that you're going on the reputation and your own impressions of the product's creator(s). You're well respected enough by your list members to take you at your word, especially if you don't abuse this by actually becoming a launch whore yourself. Keep it minimal and be choosy, then I bet you'll make serious BANK from the ones you do recommend.

    John
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    • Jeremy,

      Don't think in terms of promoting or even advising your subscribers.

      Just let them know people have been contacting you for advice and you haven't given it because of your stated reasons.

      Just let them know they have to do their own research and if they think it is the right choice, buy it.

      Then tell them look for the best bonus package and say you don't have one because you aren't promoting it for the reasons stated.

      But if they want to get it through your link, then thats cool too.

      It's just an opportunity for them to thank you for what you have done for them in the past.

      Your NON WHORE status stays intack!

      All the best,
      Ewen
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  • Exactly what I was going to recommend. Having a few thousand dollars staring you in the face must be painful if you let it slip.

    Having said that, you will probably want to suggest to the subscriber that they should refund immediately if the product is sub standard.

    Just my 2 cents.

    -Simon
  • Wait, you don't want to be a douchebag?

    Why stop now?

    Seriously, I think you'd get pretty far by telling your subscribers how annoyed you are that you can't get a copy and review it before the launch. Just come right out and say it: "I'd rather take some time to review this before I recommend it, but the launch would be over by then, and it wouldn't help you at all. So I've gone over what launch materials there are, and here's why I trust this product to deliver the goods."

    That way, instead of telling people "go watch this video from Joe Blow (link) Really, you should watch it," you can say "hey, I watched this video from Joe Blow (link) and here's what I think about it."

    At some point, burn your promotion. When you start out recommending something, and you start to second-guess the quality of the product, put your pride and your ego and your 100% success record on the shelf - and say "You know what, I just don't think this product is worth it. If you want to buy it, fine, I'm sure you'll do okay with it... but I'm not going to personally recommend it anymore."

    This is one of my secrets.

    When you're iffy about something, and aren't sure whether to do it, just go ahead. Then, if it goes wrong and gets all hosed up, you can say "that was a Bad Idea and I'm sorry." But, amazingly enough, it doesn't go wrong that often. So more often than not, you end up winning on the risk instead of dealing with whatever you were worried about.

    Too many people out there are trying to look like they never make a mistake. That's not a real person. Real people screw up. Not on purpose - they try to do it right and look good in the process - but they do screw up on occasion. If you want to be a real person that your list trusts and respects, take risks in front of them... so they'll eventually see you screw up.

    It takes longer than you think.
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    • Except that here, YOU screw up with THEIR money and time - and folks aren't quick to forgive you for that.

      What's REALLY at risk is your REPUTATION.

      All success
      Dr.Mani
      • [ 2 ] Thanks
  • This is just me, but if I see your bolded statement come across in an email...that is a GUARANTEED NO PURCHASE for me. I would only buy a product that has been used by the affiliate and strongly recommends it.

    I would appreciate the honesty, but I would also NOT buy the product.
    • [1] reply
    • I would base my decision to buy on the product itself, not a "testimonial" from a person with an affiliate link, just because they used it. Chances are, they aren't going through the same buyer process actual buyers will, such as support, etc.

      When I buy something through an affiliate link, I often tend to reward an affiliate for something such as informing me about the product, giving me good info, or BEING HONEST.

      Having said this, I wouldn't blast a list just with this type of offer, which is the typical launch strategy. Instead, I'd include it as part of an actual info newsletter as a way of supporting the newsletter. And for big ticket stuff, try to come up with a quality, unique bonus for using my affiliate link.

      There's many people that have already decided to buy BEFORE the launch, that's the whole point of a launch. I see nothing wrong with giving people I help an option of buying from me, as long as I'm honest.
      • [1] reply
  • Jeremy, here's the thing....

    It's difficult to recommend ANY of the $1k+ launches because, if you look closely, none of them (except for PLF) have pre-existing content.

    They all "start" on a certain date and are created on-the-fly. The only materials available for review are the 4 expected prelaunch "lead magnets".

    If it turns out to be crap, your reputation gets burned.
    I personally can't sleep very well if some poor newbie maxes out their credit card on a blind recommendation that ended up being crapalicious.

    So the million dollar question is....

    Is your reputation worth several $1k commissions?

    Because ultimately that's what it boils down to. Disclaimers or not, the minute you put the link up...it gives the illusion of endorsement. If you can't peek behind the curtains, then don't sell it.

    CPA is another story. There is rarely a relationship involved in CPA. It's usually just mass traffic being pointed at a LP. Your particular IM niche involves trust that you've spent a while developing.
    • [1] reply
    • The answer to this is obviously...NO.

      We don't jump on the product launches because financially, we don't need to.

      Don and I started talking earlier and decided to count up some of the emails and help tickets we received either asking for info about a launch or flat out asking for an affiliate link, and the cha-chings started going off in my head. So, I ultimately wanted to see if one could promote these launches without getting "lumped in" with the crowd.

      BUT

      As you've stated, you really can't as a majority of the time, there isn't anything to review because in many cases, it hasn't been created yet (from what I hear) .

      I guess if it was someone you trusted, you could probably do it and be OK as long as you don't make any big claim about the content, but that's probably about it.
      • [1] reply
  • Jeremy a quick question if I may?

    Apart from the launches that seem to happen literally every day of the week, could you not look at existing products that really help people make money, and pay a good commission and promote them? Perhaps, you could get a review copy beforehand. I don't know how you would feel about that as from what I have read, you are not THE typical affiliate marketer pimping every product launch there is.

    One of the things everyone looks for is the assurance that that will get a refund and if a product doesn't deliver, then that's what they will do. If you in good conscience have recommend something that works I'm sure that your list will appreciate that have helped them make a choice based on wisdom and experience and not hype.

    Not sure if that helps and forgive me if I have gotten the wrong end of the stick.

    Brian
  • Do these emails tend to always come from the same people? If so, you could just set up a separate list for them to opt into, a list which is essentially for sending out affiliate links to launches that you haven't personally vetted.

    If people are going to buy anyway, and want to support you because they like and trust you, this would give them that option. But it would also avoid having to blast your whole list with these offers. The people that would get them would hopefully remember that they *wanted* to get them

    John
  • If you received an inquiry on a product, get an affiliate link and put it in the reply along with your knowledge (or 'un-knowledge') about the product. Then write an email about being asked and include your reply (with the affiliate link) to the list.

    Now you are NOT selling, you are just making available the link and the info that there is a product that just came out. You can even work something that if someone buys from your link and it is not a good product, you will throw them a few freebies for their trouble. You could even ask that if anyone does buy the product if they would send you a review that you could share the results with your list.

    None of that looks spammy to me. It is actually going the extra mile to ask for a review so you CAN 'protect' your list better.
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    • When the thread started, I was thinking along these lines, too. But now I think that the affiliate link implies an endorsement, no matter how much he tries to explain it away.

      This approach would be fine with a $7 product, or even $27 or $47. But Jeremy's specifically asking about products with a four-figure price tag. For most people, that's a bit more than they want to risk throwing away on an impulse buy that may not work out.
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  • BTW, There is a video on You tube by a well know marketer that details product launches... After watching it, a person has every reason to be skeptical of big launches. (I better shut up there. Lol.)
  • You should promote some of them, because some of them are actually good.

    Survey your list, see what they need...if SEO comes on top you know what to do.

    Next step, call the product creator, tell him to show you some proof, details about the program etc... You then decide if your list can use it or not.

    Also you need to keep in mind that you can't please everybody no matter what you promote...selling is selling, you can't be afraid to sell...you will always have people trash talking you even if you only sell $7 products or promote $27 products.
  • Well...how about...

    doing a review on the author of the product and stating how his past products lived up to the claims of the sales page/launch. Lending into what you would expect for the current product based on past experiences.

    Then offer a chance for your list to take a poll on the opinions and experiences that you wrote about the product offer. Your list then has an option to be taken to the launch page(your id) or leaving a moderated remark on any experiences that he/she had from any of the author products that they have purchased in the past.

    Just a thought ;-)
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  • I would send out an email letting people know about a launch that you thought LOOKED interesting. Explain from your perspective how you think it might be helpful, and for whom it might help (newbies, experienced, blah blah).

    Then make sure you use your honesty line. That's certainly important.

    Key is that you **are** adding value as long as you present your view of what you think the product will be good for, and what it won't be good for. Bring your market the news, and a basic analysis rather than a "recommendation".
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    • Jeremy, I know you already made your decision but let me elaborate a little
      on my reply above.

      When Nitro Marketing Blueprint came out, I got to see the videos of the
      actual outline of the product where they discussed each module and what
      it covered.

      When I saw that it was essentially the same home business system that
      I used to build my business, I was fairly confident that the product was
      going to be good. So I promoted it BEFORE seeing it.

      Then, when I actually got it in the mail, after getting a chance to look
      through it, I then made a video review of it.

      Now I realize that by this time all the launch madness had ended and
      because of that, I only finished 20th in their affiliate contest...

      BUT...and this is the important part...because of the way I handled the
      promotion, I have continued to make sales of this product to THIS day.

      In other words, the longevity of the product made up for the fact that
      I didn't make a ton of sales right away.

      I don't know if this would apply to all products, especially the ones in the
      1K to 2K range (Nitro Marketing Blueprint was only $297) but it's certainly
      worth a shot to actually get the product anyway, even if the buzz dies
      down, review it and then, if you like it, promote it.

      There WILL be customers for it and you WILL end up getting an honest
      income that you wouldn't have normally gotten.

      Why leave money on the table when you don't have to?

      Anyway, that's my further 2 cents on the subject.
      • [1] reply
  • Jeremy probably won't be replying for a few... His psycho son did a jump on a bmx bike so they are in the hospital getting x-rays for his ribs... He will probably be back on after breaking his other ribs for him for being stupid LOL.
  • If you think a product can provide value to your clients why not promote it?

    Be upfront and say, "I haven't purchased this but it looks interesting, if you are going to but it why not buy it through my affiliate link and let me know what you think?"
    • [1] reply
    • The problem is, how can I know if it will/can provide value? The launches are 3-4 days long, and you usually don't have all the content until 8 weeks later.
      • [2] replies
  • I would think NOT.

    Your audience trusts you to GUIDE them towards (or away from) a purchase/product.

    If you don't want to (or cannot, for any reason) take the time/effort to review it carefully, but still hand out your affiliate link, I would suspect your trust level would erode over time.

    Just my 2 cents. I rarely promote stuff without testing it first - and whenever I do, make it crystal clear that I've not tested out THIS one, but give reasons for why I'm telling folks about it (may be that I know the product creators, and trust them to provide value).

    All success
    Dr.Mani
    • [1] reply
    • Thinking about your specific situation, Jeremy, I thought of this option.

      A note saying:

      would help reinforce the fact that you care about your subscriber, and
      still provide your affiliate link, in case they want to buy through it.

      Hope this helps.

      All success
      Dr.Mani

      P.S. - Hope you son's doing well?

      P.P.S. - I hope everyone who chimes in here realizes those raking in the
      green stuff from endorsing these big launches are rolling on the floor
      laughing at all these 'integrity-centered' remarks - and is confident
      enough to know that, ultimately, the laugh is ON THEM?!
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  • Jeremy, I see you have some great advice form seriously senior members.

    I thought I would chip in because as a newbie with a bit of experience I believe I am the kind of person that makes up the majority of your list Demographic ( I maybe wrong you might have the all star list of Guru's)

    I think you could do it and not annoy your list: If I received something like Caliban suggested I would not think less of you, in fact I may gain more respect for your honesty.
    (Actually why not hire Caliban to write your E mail if you decide to get to do it)

    If you do decide I think for your sake and the sake of your list insure that the Refund policy is water tight.... that allows a better nights sleep.

    Be as honest as you can be and you should be fine, Many of the people that bought any way may just be on your list.

    Another Idea is maybe have the link as a PS after giving great value to your list again with all the honesty you can muster.


    P.S. How do I join your list?
  • If the launch promoters actually have a product ready before the launch, they should be able to let their affiliates have a preview. If the amount of monmey their affiliates would spend on review copies is that important to them, then the affiliate sales must not be very much in comparison.

    If the product isn't reviewable before the launch, how good can it be?

    Just let your list know that you couldn't review it.
  • I'm just surprised the douchebag nazis haven't appeared yet to chastize over the use of the word douchebag.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • mhmm, my view is NO, it's not good enough.

    if you really don't know the seller and/or product,
    you could easily shoot yourself in the foot and ruin
    your reputation .... open rate of your emails goes down

    I typically only promote stuff I've used (I tend to
    do video reviews of the product, and I usually pick holes
    into it too).

    In the past I pitched stuff I didn't know and I got
    burned. Learned my lesson.

    Veit


  • Now that --^ is a reply with integrity, yet it still gives you a chance to make a commission.

    As a rule I don't recommend products I haven't used or reviewed. My readers know that and seem to appreciate it. On a rare occasion I might recommend something based on a friend's recommendation, but I inform my readers of that fact.
  • Jeremy,

    Who do you know, trust, and respect who does promote these products?

    If you know someone refer your readers to them. (You might even be able to barter a deal for a ad-swap, or some other offer with the person you refer them to.)

    If you do not know anyone promoting them you trust that highly, what does that tell you?
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