Must Resist...Don't Want To Be A Douche Bag...

54 replies
Hey Everyone,

I find myself in a bit of a delima, and I'm looking for some opinions, and maybe some thoughts on something.

I've been involved in the MMO niche for just about 2 years now, and along the way, have built a list, some trust, and a bit of a following to some extent.

In all that time, I've never given into the whole promote products as an affiliate deal, for a couple reasons.

1. The launches are usually so short, you really don't have time to buy them, and try them out before recommending them.

2. So many people doing it are just blatant douche bags meaning that they have no shame in blasting out 3 promotions a day for 3 different products pretty much saying the hell with their list as long as the get paid.

3. It was never really my (our) intention to be involved in the IM niche to that degree and extent.

The "problem" that I'm having and the reason that I'm even considering this again is that over the past 2 months, we have gotten probably somewhere around 25 emails from subscribers asking what we thought about a certain product and if we had an affiliate link. These were high end launches that paid commissions of approx $1,000 each, and I'm willing to bet that the folks went ahead and purchased anyway just from someone elses link.

My whole thought process here is this:

I know the way that the launch whores are perceived when they jump on every launch and promote just so someone else will promote them. At the end of they day they will say that they are doing it to try and "help" people, but it's pretty obvious that their intention is to sell products...whether they are good or bad.

What I'd really like to get here is some feedback from people as to the best way to promote the launches without being a launch whore and douche bag...

Would a simple disclosure something along the lines of:

I've never used this product, and don't really know how good it is, but here's my affiliate link be good enough?

To date, I've never promoted any sort of launch. If I buy something and I like it, I will typically send an email and give a link to the product with NO AFFILIATE LINK and most of the time without the product owner even knowing that I did it.

Edit Correction: I did one time send out a promotion for a $30 product from Kevin Riley with an affiliate link...
#bag #douche #resistdont
  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post


    Would a simple disclosure something along the lines of:

    I've never used this product, and don't really know how good it is, but here's my affiliate link be good enough?
    Yep, honesty and openess is good enough.

    Maybe add that buyers pass on their honest comments to you and you'll pass them along in the future.
    Signature
    Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
    Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2579241].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Fraggler
    If people are coming to you for advice after the launch, why not differentiate yourself by providing quality reviews after it has 'hit the shelves'?

    I pretty much ignore the mass launched products because it is practically impossible to get an honest opinion on the quality. I guess there is going to be a limited supply available so you can't delay your review too long.

    If you can get your list used to the idea that if they wait a few days after launch they will have a true review you should get an amazing response. They will know that if you say its good then it must be good!

    edit: you could still warm them up/notify them of the pending release and all the other launch tactics so they know the review is coming.

    If you can warn them about poor products too...
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2579249].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
      Originally Posted by Fraggler View Post

      If people are coming to you for advice after the launch, why not differentiate yourself by providing quality reviews after it has 'hit the shelves'?

      I pretty much ignore the mass launched products because it is practically impossible to get an honest opinion on the quality. I guess there is going to be a limited supply available so you can't delay your review too long.

      If you can get your list used to the idea that if they wait a few days after launch they will have a true review you should get an amazing response. They will know that if you say its good then it must be good!
      The problem is most of the time the launches only last for a couple of days, so if you're not in the game pre-launch and for the initial 48 hours probably, you more than likely aren't going to be that effective...I could be wrong though.

      At the end of the day, I'll probably just steer clear of it, just trying to see if there is a "good" way to do it.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2579277].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        I only promote IM related products that I have actually looked at or at least
        knew enough about (through inside sources) to be able to speak about it
        intelligently.

        Having said that, if you do put a disclaimer that you've never seen the
        product I think that's really up front and honest and great and all, but I
        don't think it's going to get you many sales unless it's from people who
        REALLY trust you already.

        And then there is the possibility that these same people who do trust you
        just might say, "Wow, I can't believe he's actually pimping his affiliate link
        for something that he doesn't even know if it's any good or not."

        You may lose respect from some of your list.

        Personally, I won't do it. But ultimately you have to do what YOU think is
        right.

        For what it's worth, I hate the whole launch process as an affiliate as
        well. That's why I have to see the product first or get it first hand from
        an inside source (somebody who has seen the product and can honestly
        tell me that it's solid) in order to promote it. The latter, is VERY rare. In
        fact, it happened only once in all my 7 years online. All the other products
        I saw myself before launch.

        Anyway, that's my 2 cents on this matter, for whatever they're worth.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2579312].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by Fraggler View Post

      If people are coming to you for advice after the launch, why not differentiate yourself by providing quality reviews after it has 'hit the shelves'?

      I pretty much ignore the mass launched products because it is practically impossible to get an honest opinion on the quality. I guess there is going to be a limited supply available so you can't delay your review too long.

      If you can get your list used to the idea that if they wait a few days after launch they will have a true review you should get an amazing response. They will know that if you say its good then it must be good!

      edit: you could still warm them up/notify them of the pending release and all the other launch tactics so they know the review is coming.

      If you can warn them about poor products too...

      Jeremy: A great point was made here....

      If on the big launch day, you told your readers to hold judgment until you have been able to collect some honest reviews, people trust you enough to wait for your reviews and they will be more than happy to use your affiliate link, because you gave them something no one else would -- an honest, non-hype filled review of the product...

      If you played your cards this way, you would engender more trust from your readers, AND you would not look like a douche bag...
      Signature
      Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
      Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2579994].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author adionline
    ...paid commissions of approx $1,000 each...
    I must be thinking of the wrong type of MMO niche...
    Signature
    Giving up is not an option.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2579260].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Michael Nguyen
    As the "leader" of the pack, how about let them know that you're going to buy it first and study it and if you like it recommend it. Give an in depth review etc of the product. Get them to perhaps visit your blog for a full video review or blog post of some sort. If the product is bad then say why its bad. Then give you go ahead.

    Who cares if the price is time sensitive because if they got that money to spend in the first place then abit extra isn't gonna do harm and it would save them the time going through it. By you spending the time to go through it you'll be compensated when you do recommend a product.

    Of course the best products are ones that are not limited ie a coaching course etc but actual ebooks and videos courses.

    If only there were more than 24 hours per day I'd gladly go through the course.

    Best regards
    Michael
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2579267].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author jacktackett
    Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

    ...
    Edit Correction: I did one time send out a promotion for a $30 product from Kevin Riley with an affiliate link...
    Well - that blew your rep with me Jeremy

    I'm glad you don't want to go the launch whore route - but think courtesan instead .

    I don't recommend, and like you don't like, the massive amounts of email sent out before/during a launch. But I would have no problem receiving an email from you or Don about the launch - some words of wisdom and caution etc - and then with the above disclaimer you're affiliate link. Paul Myers has sent out issues of talk biz drawing folks attention to some of the good and bad parts of launches which I've welcomed.

    I've seen Martin Avis do this sometimes too with an affiliate link and without angering the vast majority of his list and believe you can do this too. Now there's always a sour puss in every crowd/list so I'm sure you realize someone will get upset - but that's life.

    I'd recommend a low key approach but see nothing wrong with promoting something - we're marketers for crying out loud. But only you can decide if the product is ok or an absolute scam. Given our interactions together I don't see you promoting Sh*t for the sake of a buck - but as long as you're up front I see nothing wrong with a promotion now and then - just don't start spamming my rear with affiliate links

    my $0.02 anyways,
    --Jack
    Signature
    Let's get Tim the kidney he needs!HELP Tim
    Mega Monster WSO for KimW http://ow.ly/4JdHm


    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2579270].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
    Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

    What I'd really like to get here is some feedback from people as to the best way to promote the launches without being a launch whore and douche bag...

    Would a simple disclosure something along the lines of:

    I've never used this product, and don't really know how good it is, but here's my affiliate link be good enough?
    I don't think that your bolded phrase would give me much
    confidence that you cared about me as a subscriber or
    buyer.

    It's kinda like saying - I don't care enough about you to
    check this one out for you - but I'll happily take the
    affiliate commission.

    There's a simple way not to be perceived as a launch
    douchebag... don't be one of them.

    If you sleep with dogs, you end up with fleas.

    As a marketer, one of my key tasks is to continually
    be pereceived as being different from my competitors
    and uniquely beneficial to my prospects and customers.

    Jumping on the launch bandwaggon is just not worth
    it for me - no matter how juicy the commissions appear
    to be.

    Dedicated to your success,

    Shaun
    Signature

    .

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2579287].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author jan roos
      Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

      I don't think that your bolded phrase would give me much
      confidence that you cared about me as a subscriber or
      buyer.

      It's kinda like saying - I don't care enough about you to
      check this one out for you - but I'll happily take the
      affiliate commission.

      There's a simple way not to be perceived as a launch
      douchebag... don't be one of them.

      If you sleep with dogs, you end up with fleas.

      As a marketer, one of my key tasks is to continually
      be pereceived as being different from my competitors
      and uniquely beneficial to my prospects and customers.

      Jumping on the launch bandwaggon is just not worth
      it for me - no matter how juicy the commissions appear
      to be.

      Dedicated to your success,

      Shaun
      You are very good at differentiating yourself from the rest. I love being on your list, keep it up.

      Cheers
      Signature

      I'll teach you how to make money like a Mamba.

      Sign up for the free money mambas newsletter!

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2579339].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
        I disagree with those who say you are in danger of ruining your rep by promoting something you can't review ahead of time. Perhaps this is wrong, but I'm under the impression that nobody usually gets access to the product prior to the big launches.

        I do agree that honesty with your list is crucial, but I wouldn't phrase my disclaimer carelessly. To me "I don't know if this product is any good or not" is a careless, negative, discouraging sounding phrase, and the tone of it is completely wrong.

        It would be more fitting imo to say something like the following:

        "I am as excited as anyone about picking up a copy of "Make $300 A Week Online, Working A Measly 57 Hours, All While Sitting At Your Kitchen Table Wearing Nothing But A Worn Out Pair Of Depends"! Of course, nobody including me will know for sure if it lives up to the buzz until we can all get our mitts on it-I'm as anxious as anyone to check it out.

        Now, most of the time I don't recommend a product before I've had a chance to try it out for myself. I wouldn't recommend this one either, if it weren't for the great reputation of it's creators, along with the fact that there is a total satisfaction guarantee, and so far, the pre-launch videos have already delivered some excellent tips on how to make up to five dollars an hour your very first day, before you've even soiled your depends!

        Personally, I don't want to miss out on the early-bird [bonuses, discount, or whatever], nor do I want you to miss out. The fact that John Kern and Frank Reese are behind it, and have sterling reputations for quality products and honoring their refund requests makes me comfortable enough to suggest you check it out along with me, rather than wait for the [price to go up, bonuses to be gone, or whatever]. In the unlikely event that it isn't all it's cracked up to be, I will get my refund, and strongly encourage you to do the same."

        I respect your not wanting to be a douche, but would suggest that not everyone who promotes stuff before trying it is one. I think the key is due diligence on the reps of the creator/s, and especially how they have handled refunds in the past. If there are reports that getting a refund was like pulling teeth, or took 2 months, then skip that person's launches. A lot of "not being a douche", is the combination of common sense and full disclosure of the fact that you are, like them, trying this out for the first time. But honesty doesn't mean you have to use phrases like "I don't know if this is any good..." If I couldn't honestly put a better light on it than that, I'd skip that launch.

        Just my 2 cents.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2579610].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
      Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

      I don't think that your bolded phrase would give me much
      confidence that you cared about me as a subscriber or
      buyer.

      It's kinda like saying - I don't care enough about you to
      check this one out for you - but I'll happily take the
      affiliate commission.

      There's a simple way not to be perceived as a launch
      douchebag... don't be one of them.

      If you sleep with dogs, you end up with fleas.

      As a marketer, one of my key tasks is to continually
      be pereceived as being different from my competitors
      and uniquely beneficial to my prospects and customers.

      Jumping on the launch bandwaggon is just not worth
      it for me - no matter how juicy the commissions appear
      to be.

      Dedicated to your success,

      Shaun
      /thread

      Lots of good info here in the thread, but Shauns post really hit the nail on the head the more I think about it.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2579354].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
    Jeremy, just tell your list members that you're going on the reputation and your own impressions of the product's creator(s). You're well respected enough by your list members to take you at your word, especially if you don't abuse this by actually becoming a launch whore yourself. Keep it minimal and be choosy, then I bet you'll make serious BANK from the ones you do recommend.

    John
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2579293].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      Jeremy,

      Don't think in terms of promoting or even advising your subscribers.

      Just let them know people have been contacting you for advice and you haven't given it because of your stated reasons.

      Just let them know they have to do their own research and if they think it is the right choice, buy it.

      Then tell them look for the best bonus package and say you don't have one because you aren't promoting it for the reasons stated.

      But if they want to get it through your link, then thats cool too.

      It's just an opportunity for them to thank you for what you have done for them in the past.

      Your NON WHORE status stays intack!

      All the best,
      Ewen
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2579351].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author zerofill
        Well we already discussed this over and over so we know each others opinions on it... but I still think your a Douche Bag...

        But that's just me going with my gut feeling... Muhahaha

        Actually we get a lot more than 25 requests asking us what we think about such and such product. Problem is we would never have time to look at them all before they closed the doors on them anyway. Hell I can't tell anyone much about any product because I haven't bought any in so long... except some recent one that I wanted to see how it was laid out for the customer.

        We've been asked by some of the (considered) heavy hitters to do products with them...etc in the past. But damn I have a hard time with getting labeled as part of the syndicate later on down the line. Not just that but I feel our names get lost in the product development as well. While I don't have a big ego... I also don't like other people getting credit for what we did either.

        I like money...or getting paid for my time... but I am not very materialistic. I live in a house that was built in 1916 that looks like everyone elses house in this crappy town, and we have a Honda element not a Lexus (or even a rental Lexus for videos lol)... Although I don't worry at all about bills, or debt... and can definitely afford a bigger new house. But then again my kids are 10th grade and 12th grade now... whats the point? So I can point at it and say look at my new big house?

        Anyone ever buy any of these $2-$5k products that felt they got the support and information they needed when they asked questions? I mean damn we have a hard enough time keeping up with our own support tickets, emails, PMs, Skype messages... How the hell do these people sell 10000 copies at 2k and handle their support?

        I guess it is hard to chose who is really trying to put something descent out and who is praying on the professional product buyers, or the extremely desperate.

        We all know Guru1,2,3,4,5,6 all have a preset launch schedule they sit there and talk about, and decide who is pushing what and who's product when... so they can re-funnel everyone into the same sales circle... That is just completely obvious... The circle jerk...

        I really don't want to be seen as part of the circle jerk... Yet there is another part of me that says... we get asked so much why not do it?

        I guess we could analyze the sales pages and give everyone our best guess on what we think the product may be about or may do...and then say "but we have not seen the actual product ourselves" which is a lot better than what I see in most of the emails. Either way though it is still just a guess that isn't based on facts.

        Also either way we still (unless we saw it) wouldn't be saying...

        Yo, My friend numb nuts just came out with this killer product you have just got to see!

        It shows you how he made 40k in 4 hours from his bathroom while taking a dump! This is not just any old guide...he takes you step by step (after he washes his hands) through how he created this global empire of domination!
        Signature
        Serp Shaker
        The IM World Will Be Shaken to the Core!
        Join my list at: IMCool.Biz
        New Podcast --> podcast.imcool.biz
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2579501].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Simon Ashari
    Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

    Hey Everyone,


    Would a simple disclosure something along the lines of:

    I've never used this product, and don't really know how good it is, but here's my affiliate link be good enough?
    Exactly what I was going to recommend. Having a few thousand dollars staring you in the face must be painful if you let it slip.

    Having said that, you will probably want to suggest to the subscriber that they should refund immediately if the product is sub standard.

    Just my 2 cents.

    -Simon
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2579302].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Wait, you don't want to be a douchebag?

    Why stop now?

    Seriously, I think you'd get pretty far by telling your subscribers how annoyed you are that you can't get a copy and review it before the launch. Just come right out and say it: "I'd rather take some time to review this before I recommend it, but the launch would be over by then, and it wouldn't help you at all. So I've gone over what launch materials there are, and here's why I trust this product to deliver the goods."

    That way, instead of telling people "go watch this video from Joe Blow (link) Really, you should watch it," you can say "hey, I watched this video from Joe Blow (link) and here's what I think about it."

    At some point, burn your promotion. When you start out recommending something, and you start to second-guess the quality of the product, put your pride and your ego and your 100% success record on the shelf - and say "You know what, I just don't think this product is worth it. If you want to buy it, fine, I'm sure you'll do okay with it... but I'm not going to personally recommend it anymore."

    This is one of my secrets.

    When you're iffy about something, and aren't sure whether to do it, just go ahead. Then, if it goes wrong and gets all hosed up, you can say "that was a Bad Idea and I'm sorry." But, amazingly enough, it doesn't go wrong that often. So more often than not, you end up winning on the risk instead of dealing with whatever you were worried about.

    Too many people out there are trying to look like they never make a mistake. That's not a real person. Real people screw up. Not on purpose - they try to do it right and look good in the process - but they do screw up on occasion. If you want to be a real person that your list trusts and respects, take risks in front of them... so they'll eventually see you screw up.

    It takes longer than you think.
    Signature
    "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2579322].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Paul Barrs
      [DELETED]
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2580020].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
        Sorry for starting this thread and disappearing. My son likes to make videos of himself doing tricks on his bike and skateboard to post on youtube, and he does some pretty wild stuff. Unfortunately, tonight a trick went "bad" and he ended up with a cracked rib, so I got to spend the night in the emergency room.

        I want to thank everyone for understanding my question, and not just assuming that I was talking about jumping on EVERY big launch that came down the pipe. More importantly though, I want to thank everyone for the comments, as they gave me more than one angle to look at that I didn't think of.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2580844].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author drmani
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      Too many people out there are trying to look like they never make a mistake. That's not a real person. Real people screw up. Not on purpose - they try to do it right and look good in the process - but they do screw up on occasion. If you want to be a real person that your list trusts and respects, take risks in front of them... so they'll eventually see you screw up.

      It takes longer than you think.
      Except that here, YOU screw up with THEIR money and time - and folks aren't quick to forgive you for that.

      What's REALLY at risk is your REPUTATION.

      All success
      Dr.Mani
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2580946].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author thebitbotdotcom
    Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

    Hey Everyone,

    I find myself in a bit of a delima, and I'm looking for some opinions, and maybe some thoughts on something.

    I've been involved in the MMO niche for just about 2 years now, and along the way, have built a list, some trust, and a bit of a following to some extent.

    In all that time, I've never given into the whole promote products as an affiliate deal, for a couple reasons.

    1. The launches are usually so short, you really don't have time to buy them, and try them out before recommending them.

    2. So many people doing it are just blatant douche bags meaning that they have no shame in blasting out 3 promotions a day for 3 different products pretty much saying the hell with their list as long as the get paid.

    3. It was never really my (our) intention to be involved in the IM niche to that degree and extent.

    The "problem" that I'm having and the reason that I'm even considering this again is that over the past 2 months, we have gotten probably somewhere around 25 emails from subscribers asking what we thought about a certain product and if we had an affiliate link. These were high end launches that paid commissions of approx $1,000 each, and I'm willing to bet that the folks went ahead and purchased anyway just from someone elses link.

    My whole thought process here is this:

    I know the way that the launch whores are perceived when they jump on every launch and promote just so someone else will promote them. At the end of they day they will say that they are doing it to try and "help" people, but it's pretty obvious that their intention is to sell products...whether they are good or bad.

    What I'd really like to get here is some feedback from people as to the best way to promote the launches without being a launch whore and douche bag...

    Would a simple disclosure something along the lines of:

    I've never used this product, and don't really know how good it is, but here's my affiliate link be good enough?

    To date, I've never promoted any sort of launch. If I buy something and I like it, I will typically send an email and give a link to the product with NO AFFILIATE LINK and most of the time without the product owner even knowing that I did it.

    Edit Correction: I did one time send out a promotion for a $30 product from Kevin Riley with an affiliate link...
    This is just me, but if I see your bolded statement come across in an email...that is a GUARANTEED NO PURCHASE for me. I would only buy a product that has been used by the affiliate and strongly recommends it.

    I would appreciate the honesty, but I would also NOT buy the product.
    Signature
    Do Your Copywriting Skills Suck?

    Let Us Help You Develop Your Writing Skills!

    Submit Guest Posts With [ TheBitBot.Com ]
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2579323].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by thebitbotdotcom View Post

      This is just me, but if I see your bolded statement come across in an email...that is a GUARANTEED NO PURCHASE for me. I would only buy a product that has been used by the affiliate and strongly recommends it.

      I would appreciate the honesty, but I would also NOT buy the product.
      I would base my decision to buy on the product itself, not a "testimonial" from a person with an affiliate link, just because they used it. Chances are, they aren't going through the same buyer process actual buyers will, such as support, etc.

      When I buy something through an affiliate link, I often tend to reward an affiliate for something such as informing me about the product, giving me good info, or BEING HONEST.

      Having said this, I wouldn't blast a list just with this type of offer, which is the typical launch strategy. Instead, I'd include it as part of an actual info newsletter as a way of supporting the newsletter. And for big ticket stuff, try to come up with a quality, unique bonus for using my affiliate link.

      There's many people that have already decided to buy BEFORE the launch, that's the whole point of a launch. I see nothing wrong with giving people I help an option of buying from me, as long as I'm honest.
      Signature
      Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
      Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2579433].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Ken Strong
        I read the Product Reviews section here every day and there's a LOT of cynicism and skepticism lately about many of the products with big launches... the products that get widespread praise are becoming the exception.

        I'd say you'd want to avoid promoting anything you either haven't checked out personally, or was created by someone you're very sure of. It's too easy for it to backfire on you if just one of the products turns out to be expensive crap.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2579459].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author mcmahanusa
          There certainly seems to be a consensus of opinion here, and if there is a bottom line, it seems to be "keep your integrity" and don't jump on the bandwagon if you don't know the quality of the music.

          There have been a lot of major launches lately, and I've been inundated with promotional offers on all of them, by some very prominent marketers. I've not bought any of them, primarily because of serious doubts of the value. To date, my doubts have proven justified (with perhaps one single exception), as the products have not been worth the expense.

          My hat's off to you, Jeremy, because you've not succumbed. It's just one of the things that makes you a leader and a person worthy of the greatest respect. (I really should include Caliban and Steven in that statement - they have the same sort of standards)
          Signature

          Success is not to be pursued; it is to be attracted by the person you become - Jim Rohn

          Visit our beautiful gardens

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2579524].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Jesus Perez
    Jeremy, here's the thing....

    It's difficult to recommend ANY of the $1k+ launches because, if you look closely, none of them (except for PLF) have pre-existing content.

    They all "start" on a certain date and are created on-the-fly. The only materials available for review are the 4 expected prelaunch "lead magnets".

    If it turns out to be crap, your reputation gets burned.
    I personally can't sleep very well if some poor newbie maxes out their credit card on a blind recommendation that ended up being crapalicious.

    So the million dollar question is....

    Is your reputation worth several $1k commissions?

    Because ultimately that's what it boils down to. Disclaimers or not, the minute you put the link up...it gives the illusion of endorsement. If you can't peek behind the curtains, then don't sell it.

    CPA is another story. There is rarely a relationship involved in CPA. It's usually just mass traffic being pointed at a LP. Your particular IM niche involves trust that you've spent a while developing.
    Signature

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2579328].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
      Originally Posted by BlueSquares View Post

      Is your reputation worth several $1k commissions?

      Because ultimately that's what it boils down to. Disclaimers or not, the minute you put the link up...it gives the illusion of endorsement. If you can't peek behind the curtains, then don't sell it.
      The answer to this is obviously...NO.

      We don't jump on the product launches because financially, we don't need to.

      Don and I started talking earlier and decided to count up some of the emails and help tickets we received either asking for info about a launch or flat out asking for an affiliate link, and the cha-chings started going off in my head. So, I ultimately wanted to see if one could promote these launches without getting "lumped in" with the crowd.

      BUT

      As you've stated, you really can't as a majority of the time, there isn't anything to review because in many cases, it hasn't been created yet (from what I hear) .

      I guess if it was someone you trusted, you could probably do it and be OK as long as you don't make any big claim about the content, but that's probably about it.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2579375].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Robert Oliver
        Jeremy,

        I want to stay on your list. I delete myself from

        the marketers that send me all that crap because

        I know they never used the product, so how do they

        know it really works. I buy a marketers own product

        because I know or hope he is really doing it and will

        stand by his claims and then I start getting all these sales

        letter emails promoting the next greatest thing to sliced

        bread to make money. How the hell does this marketer

        know, when he just sold me his own latest greatest method

        to make money. I call it affiliate marketing whoring.

        I think the real problem is the fact that you have already

        established yourself as a marketer that only puts out products

        that you & Don have personally used for many months to make

        money before you launch them to the outside world. Loads of

        credibility here.

        Robert Oliver
        Signature

        It's Not Over Till I Win!
        Do you see the glass half empty or half
        full? The difference can mean success or
        failure.
        The simple things seem to be the most
        effective and most overlooked.

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2579427].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Hackbridge
    Jeremy a quick question if I may?

    Apart from the launches that seem to happen literally every day of the week, could you not look at existing products that really help people make money, and pay a good commission and promote them? Perhaps, you could get a review copy beforehand. I don't know how you would feel about that as from what I have read, you are not THE typical affiliate marketer pimping every product launch there is.

    One of the things everyone looks for is the assurance that that will get a refund and if a product doesn't deliver, then that's what they will do. If you in good conscience have recommend something that works I'm sure that your list will appreciate that have helped them make a choice based on wisdom and experience and not hype.

    Not sure if that helps and forgive me if I have gotten the wrong end of the stick.

    Brian
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2579389].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author John Lenaghan
    Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

    The "problem" that I'm having and the reason that I'm even considering this again is that over the past 2 months, we have gotten probably somewhere around 25 emails from subscribers asking what we thought about a certain product and if we had an affiliate link. These were high end launches that paid commissions of approx $1,000 each, and I'm willing to bet that the folks went ahead and purchased anyway just from someone elses link.
    Do these emails tend to always come from the same people? If so, you could just set up a separate list for them to opt into, a list which is essentially for sending out affiliate links to launches that you haven't personally vetted.

    If people are going to buy anyway, and want to support you because they like and trust you, this would give them that option. But it would also avoid having to blast your whole list with these offers. The people that would get them would hopefully remember that they *wanted* to get them

    John
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2579478].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author DogScout
    If you received an inquiry on a product, get an affiliate link and put it in the reply along with your knowledge (or 'un-knowledge') about the product. Then write an email about being asked and include your reply (with the affiliate link) to the list.

    Now you are NOT selling, you are just making available the link and the info that there is a product that just came out. You can even work something that if someone buys from your link and it is not a good product, you will throw them a few freebies for their trouble. You could even ask that if anyone does buy the product if they would send you a review that you could share the results with your list.

    None of that looks spammy to me. It is actually going the extra mile to ask for a review so you CAN 'protect' your list better.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2579481].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Ken Strong
      Originally Posted by DogScout View Post

      Now you are NOT selling, you are just making available the link and the info that there is a product that just came out. You can even work something that if someone buys from your link and it is not a good product, you will throw them a few freebies for their trouble. You could even ask that if anyone does buy the product if they would send you a review that you could share the results with your list.

      None of that looks spammy to me. It is actually going the extra mile to ask for a review so you CAN 'protect' your list better.
      When the thread started, I was thinking along these lines, too. But now I think that the affiliate link implies an endorsement, no matter how much he tries to explain it away.

      This approach would be fine with a $7 product, or even $27 or $47. But Jeremy's specifically asking about products with a four-figure price tag. For most people, that's a bit more than they want to risk throwing away on an impulse buy that may not work out.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2579504].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author DogScout
    BTW, There is a video on You tube by a well know marketer that details product launches... After watching it, a person has every reason to be skeptical of big launches. (I better shut up there. Lol.)
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2579497].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Marian Berghes
    You should promote some of them, because some of them are actually good.

    Survey your list, see what they need...if SEO comes on top you know what to do.

    Next step, call the product creator, tell him to show you some proof, details about the program etc... You then decide if your list can use it or not.

    Also you need to keep in mind that you can't please everybody no matter what you promote...selling is selling, you can't be afraid to sell...you will always have people trash talking you even if you only sell $7 products or promote $27 products.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2579609].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author debra
    Well...how about...

    doing a review on the author of the product and stating how his past products lived up to the claims of the sales page/launch. Lending into what you would expect for the current product based on past experiences.

    Then offer a chance for your list to take a poll on the opinions and experiences that you wrote about the product offer. Your list then has an option to be taken to the launch page(your id) or leaving a moderated remark on any experiences that he/she had from any of the author products that they have purchased in the past.

    Just a thought ;-)
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2579627].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Chris Thompson
    I would send out an email letting people know about a launch that you thought LOOKED interesting. Explain from your perspective how you think it might be helpful, and for whom it might help (newbies, experienced, blah blah).

    Then make sure you use your honesty line. That's certainly important.

    Key is that you **are** adding value as long as you present your view of what you think the product will be good for, and what it won't be good for. Bring your market the news, and a basic analysis rather than a "recommendation".
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2579751].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author OnlineMasterMind
    [DELETED]
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2579804].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Jeremy, I know you already made your decision but let me elaborate a little
      on my reply above.

      When Nitro Marketing Blueprint came out, I got to see the videos of the
      actual outline of the product where they discussed each module and what
      it covered.

      When I saw that it was essentially the same home business system that
      I used to build my business, I was fairly confident that the product was
      going to be good. So I promoted it BEFORE seeing it.

      Then, when I actually got it in the mail, after getting a chance to look
      through it, I then made a video review of it.

      Now I realize that by this time all the launch madness had ended and
      because of that, I only finished 20th in their affiliate contest...

      BUT...and this is the important part...because of the way I handled the
      promotion, I have continued to make sales of this product to THIS day.

      In other words, the longevity of the product made up for the fact that
      I didn't make a ton of sales right away.

      I don't know if this would apply to all products, especially the ones in the
      1K to 2K range (Nitro Marketing Blueprint was only $297) but it's certainly
      worth a shot to actually get the product anyway, even if the buzz dies
      down, review it and then, if you like it, promote it.

      There WILL be customers for it and you WILL end up getting an honest
      income that you wouldn't have normally gotten.

      Why leave money on the table when you don't have to?

      Anyway, that's my further 2 cents on the subject.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2579912].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author bretski
        I actually don't promote IM stuff because of all of this garbage. I hate hype and it makes me sick. All this "well, it's gonna be huge because of who's launch it is...you gotta get in and your gonna make huge bank off of this launch"...then they have an opt in on the prelaunch page...and opt in once they take the thing down...the videos of the "proof" are bogus. Screw that.

        Oh...and the whole concept behind promoting a launch so you can get recognized by some guru? If they value me as a marketer and an affiliate they can find me here where I try to help people....for nothing. UGH! Yeah, I'm beyond frustrated...
        Signature
        ***Affordable Quality Content Written For You!***
        Experience Content Writer - PM Bretski!
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2579958].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author zerofill
    Jeremy probably won't be replying for a few... His psycho son did a jump on a bmx bike so they are in the hospital getting x-rays for his ribs... He will probably be back on after breaking his other ribs for him for being stupid LOL.
    Signature
    Serp Shaker
    The IM World Will Be Shaken to the Core!
    Join my list at: IMCool.Biz
    New Podcast --> podcast.imcool.biz
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2579929].message }}
  • If you think a product can provide value to your clients why not promote it?

    Be upfront and say, "I haven't purchased this but it looks interesting, if you are going to but it why not buy it through my affiliate link and let me know what you think?"
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2580872].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
      Originally Posted by internetmarketer999 View Post

      If you think a product can provide value to your clients why not promote it?

      Be upfront and say, "I haven't purchased this but it looks interesting, if you are going to but it why not buy it through my affiliate link and let me know what you think?"
      The problem is, how can I know if it will/can provide value? The launches are 3-4 days long, and you usually don't have all the content until 8 weeks later.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2580892].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Paul Coleman
        Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

        The problem is, how can I know if it will/can provide value? The launches are 3-4 days long, and you usually don't have all the content until 8 weeks later.
        Jeremy,

        It's so hard to convince people that one is consistently genuine. That one is always on the side of the reader, instead of just playing a game for your own benefit.

        Paul
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2581080].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
        Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

        The problem is, how can I know if it will/can provide value? The launches are 3-4 days long, and you usually don't have all the content until 8 weeks later.
        Most product creators will give someone like you full access to the product weeks before the launch... If you express an interest in promoting it but want to review it first there will usually not be a problem

        In a lot of cases if your in the loop you are going to be able to have input into the product too.

        JV partner lists are put together months before the launch, or the creator will never be able to get anyone to promote most of us need at least 60 to 90 days warning or the mailing slots will be filled.

        Trust me jeremy for someone who wants to be discerning over who and what you promote you can end up getting a big say in the product, especially if you have a good following.

        I have very often changed the product based on proactive JV partners input

        And being able to tell your subscribers you had a hand in its development is a plus both for you and the product developer


        Robert
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2632149].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author drmani
    Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

    Would a simple disclosure something along the lines of:

    I've never used this product, and don't really know how good it is, but here's my affiliate link be good enough?
    I would think NOT.

    Your audience trusts you to GUIDE them towards (or away from) a purchase/product.

    If you don't want to (or cannot, for any reason) take the time/effort to review it carefully, but still hand out your affiliate link, I would suspect your trust level would erode over time.

    Just my 2 cents. I rarely promote stuff without testing it first - and whenever I do, make it crystal clear that I've not tested out THIS one, but give reasons for why I'm telling folks about it (may be that I know the product creators, and trust them to provide value).

    All success
    Dr.Mani
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2580916].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author drmani
      Thinking about your specific situation, Jeremy, I thought of this option.

      A note saying:

      "Thanks for asking, I'm honored that you think my opinion on this matters.

      Unfortunately, because of (reason here), I've been unable to personally
      review this product, and don't have an idea of how good or not it is.

      I have indeed been aware of it, and even have an affiliate link of mine
      handy, but in all honesty, I cannot recommend or endorse something sight
      unseen.

      Hope you understand. If you have decided to order anyway, and want to
      use my affiliate link, here it is:


      If you do end up buying the program/product, please let me know how it
      works for you - and if there's anything I can do to help you get even
      higher value from it. I'll do my best to help you out."
      would help reinforce the fact that you care about your subscriber, and
      still provide your affiliate link, in case they want to buy through it.

      Hope this helps.

      All success
      Dr.Mani

      P.S. - Hope you son's doing well?

      P.P.S. - I hope everyone who chimes in here realizes those raking in the
      green stuff from endorsing these big launches are rolling on the floor
      laughing at all these 'integrity-centered' remarks - and is confident
      enough to know that, ultimately, the laugh is ON THEM?!
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2580940].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Alfred Shelver
        The one from DrMani was also very good again I would not feel duped I may have wanted to buy it anyway but would rather help someone who is honest and sincere and has helped me.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2581014].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
        Originally Posted by drmani View Post

        Thinking about your specific situation, Jeremy, I thought of this option.

        A note saying:
        "Thanks for asking, I'm honored that you think my opinion on this matters.

        Unfortunately, because of (reason here), I've been unable to personally
        review this product, and don't have an idea of how good or not it is.

        I have indeed been aware of it, and even have an affiliate link of mine
        handy, but in all honesty, I cannot recommend or endorse something sight
        unseen.

        Hope you understand. If you have decided to order anyway, and want to
        use my affiliate link, here it is:

        If you do end up buying the program/product, please let me know how it
        works for you - and if there's anything I can do to help you get even
        higher value from it. I'll do my best to help you out."
        would help reinforce the fact that you care about your subscriber, and
        still provide your affiliate link, in case they want to buy through it.

        Hope this helps.

        All success
        Dr.Mani
        Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

        Now that --^ is a reply with integrity, yet it still gives you a chance to make a commission.

        As a rule I don't recommend products I haven't used or reviewed. My readers know that and seem to appreciate it. On a rare occasion I might recommend something based on a friend's recommendation, but I inform my readers of that fact.
        A slight tweak on Dr. Mani's message would make it have
        real integrity - in my opinion anyways.

        How?

        Don't include the affiliate link at all.

        In my map of the world, an affiliate commission is something
        that's earned by giving someone a valuable recommendation
        by steering them in the right direction.

        If I don't know the value of the recommendation I'm giving,
        then I don't make it - plain and simple.

        Reputation to me is everything and what I've worked hard
        to build can be destroyed overnight - with careless, willy
        nilly, recommendations.

        I'd prefer to reply to the subscriber something like...

        Thanks for asking me about Product X.

        To be honest, I haven't even seen the content so I can't
        comment on the potential usefulness of the content to you.

        Plus, I wouldn't feel comfortable getting an affiliate commission
        for something that I don't know for sure could help you.

        Please know that whenever I promote any products or services
        to you, I have thoroughly examined them beforehand and I
        stand 100% behind each recommendation.

        I want you to know that I would never provide you with a
        recommendation just for the affiliate commission. The key
        question I ask is: is this likely a good recommendation for
        you?


        In this case, I don't know for sure, so I can't recommend
        it either way.
        That would be my approach anyways.

        My objective is to be one of the most trusted advisors to my
        prospects and clients. If I can't give them advice that at least
        I can trust, then I don't make it.

        Dedicated to your success,

        Shaun
        Signature

        .

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2581149].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author BrashImpact
        Jeremy,

        Lots of great info here...However a simple thought. You and Don have
        been around here for quite some time. Built a Rock Solid Reputation that
        does not fall in the Douche Bag Category.

        People forget, the so called Guru's and Launch Monsters were nobodies
        at some point in their careers or lives. Perhaps they caught a break, had
        incredibly lucky timing, or by a stroke of brilliant genius had some legitimate
        long term VALUE for people.

        Keep building your own products, servicing your own lists, and become your
        own Guru to the prospects, Customers and Clients you service. Honestly
        $25 GRAND is not that much cash any more nowadays. In the long
        run your PERSONAL CREDIBILITY far outweighs any short term cash infusion
        from the Launch Whores.

        Continue to focus on the things that got you guys where your at now and continue
        to grow your own Personal Education.

        Wish i would have Heeded my own advice 15 years ago when i was in my 20's, but
        i didnt have the input from people like we can get here.

        There is so MUCH OPPOTUNITY out there now during times of recession, one only
        needs a plan of tactics implemented within a long term strategy to make Big Money.

        To your personal continued success...
        Regards,
        Robert Nelson
        Signature

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2632092].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Alfred Shelver
    Jeremy, I see you have some great advice form seriously senior members.

    I thought I would chip in because as a newbie with a bit of experience I believe I am the kind of person that makes up the majority of your list Demographic ( I maybe wrong you might have the all star list of Guru's)

    I think you could do it and not annoy your list: If I received something like Caliban suggested I would not think less of you, in fact I may gain more respect for your honesty.
    (Actually why not hire Caliban to write your E mail if you decide to get to do it)

    If you do decide I think for your sake and the sake of your list insure that the Refund policy is water tight.... that allows a better nights sleep.

    Be as honest as you can be and you should be fine, Many of the people that bought any way may just be on your list.

    Another Idea is maybe have the link as a PS after giving great value to your list again with all the honesty you can muster.


    P.S. How do I join your list?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2580930].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author The Crog
    If the launch promoters actually have a product ready before the launch, they should be able to let their affiliates have a preview. If the amount of monmey their affiliates would spend on review copies is that important to them, then the affiliate sales must not be very much in comparison.

    If the product isn't reviewable before the launch, how good can it be?

    Just let your list know that you couldn't review it.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2580936].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    I'm just surprised the douchebag nazis haven't appeared yet to chastize over the use of the word douchebag.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2580975].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author VeitSchenk
    mhmm, my view is NO, it's not good enough.

    if you really don't know the seller and/or product,
    you could easily shoot yourself in the foot and ruin
    your reputation .... open rate of your emails goes down

    I typically only promote stuff I've used (I tend to
    do video reviews of the product, and I usually pick holes
    into it too).

    In the past I pitched stuff I didn't know and I got
    burned. Learned my lesson.

    Veit


    Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

    Hey Everyone,

    Would a simple disclosure something along the lines of:

    I've never used this product, and don't really know how good it is, but here's my affiliate link be good enough?

    To date, I've never promoted any sort of launch. If I buy something and I like it, I will typically send an email and give a link to the product with NO AFFILIATE LINK and most of the time without the product owner even knowing that I did it.

    Edit Correction: I did one time send out a promotion for a $30 product from Kevin Riley with an affiliate link...
    Signature

    Connect with me on FB: https://www.facebook.com/veitschenk

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2581058].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Originally Posted by drmani View Post

    Thinking about your specific situation, Jeremy, I thought of this option.

    A note saying:

    "Thanks for asking, I'm honored that you think my opinion on this matters.

    Unfortunately, because of (reason here), I've been unable to personally
    review this product, and don't have an idea of how good or not it is.

    I have indeed been aware of it, and even have an affiliate link of mine
    handy, but in all honesty, I cannot recommend or endorse something sight
    unseen.

    Hope you understand. If you have decided to order anyway, and want to
    use my affiliate link, here it is:


    If you do end up buying the program/product, please let me know how it
    works for you - and if there's anything I can do to help you get even
    higher value from it. I'll do my best to help you out."
    would help reinforce the fact that you care about your subscriber, and
    still provide your affiliate link, in case they want to buy through it.
    Now that --^ is a reply with integrity, yet it still gives you a chance to make a commission.

    As a rule I don't recommend products I haven't used or reviewed. My readers know that and seem to appreciate it. On a rare occasion I might recommend something based on a friend's recommendation, but I inform my readers of that fact.
    Signature

    Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2581069].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Barry Unruh
    Jeremy,

    Who do you know, trust, and respect who does promote these products?

    If you know someone refer your readers to them. (You might even be able to barter a deal for a ad-swap, or some other offer with the person you refer them to.)

    If you do not know anyone promoting them you trust that highly, what does that tell you?
    Signature
    Brain Drained...Signature Coming Soon!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2581076].message }}

Trending Topics