Dear "Mass Domination Billion-Dollar Annihilation Secret Sniper Avalanche Formula" Gurus...

81 replies
Nary a day passes without yet another Huge Awesome Product Launch. Mail listers flood Inboxes around the globe with, finally, the one true missing link to sudden, easy riches that all other gurus have held back all these years. So if you hurry really fast (because only 100 copies will ever be sold), you can pipe yet another $37, $67, or $97 through PayPal or Clickbank and radically change your financial fortunes in just one day.

I do speak for myself, but I rather suspect perhaps for some others too, in sharing these thoughts with you Big Gurus:

  1. Your products rarely deliver anything truly and radically new and unknown. Most of what you offer is the same-old same-old: choose a good domain name, do good keyword research, do good SEO, write good articles - then bookmark and backlink the dickens out of your site(s). Now and then, you do tuck in a relatively little-known tactic that can marginally justify the cost of your package and the hassle of wading through countless upsells and exit stop signs. But not often.
  2. Your hype and hysteria - and your Black- and Gray-Hat marketing tactics and ethics - may work on the apparently endless supply of gullible brand-newbies and slow-to-learn "offer" addicts, but for most of us, you're simply making cynics out of us. Once bitten, twice shy. "Fool me once, shame on you - fool me twice, shame on me."
  3. One of my biggest personal disappointments is to discover that some of the gurus I learned to trust for their high ethics and refusal to sell out have lately taken to using their mailing lists to endorse these big product launches that use almost embarrassingly questionable tactics. To you I ask, "If what got you where you are really worked and still works, are you suddenly in such financial straits that you need to turn to supplementing with affiliate income from these Product Launchers who use tactics often clearly unethical?" Or is it more related to Gordon Gekko's axiom: "Greed is good"?
  4. Guru Guys and Gals, you think you're reeling me in with your endless photos of a life filled with Lamborghinis, Mansions, Yachts, and conspicuous excess. Speaking for myself, that whole approach leaves me cold. Don't promise me $1,743,255.92 per day with 27 page inches of sales screen shots. Show me a way that, with plenty of hard work on my part, I can earn an honest $100 a day, $5,000 a month, or $100,000 a year. Get real. Times are tough out here. I'm not looking to be Bill Gates or Donald Trump. I'm looking to be able to pay all my bills on time, be debt free, and have a little left to go a few places, dote on my descendants, and not live in fear of a medical emergency.
  5. Like many, I subscribe to various Internet Marketer mailing lists. That list is getting steadily smaller. Any time one of my core, dependable "personal gurus" starts hawking me the latest Big Launch, I unsubscribe. Still, a small handful I continue reading - they offer consistent value, don't try to sell me with every post, and demonstrate real integrity. I will read everything they write and buy anything they offer. If they've consistently given me nothing but high-quality nutrition (plus tiramisu for dessert) till now, I'll assume I can depend on more of the same with any new offer.
  6. Most of us who belong to WF, I want to believe, are hungry for integrity in Internet marketing. We want not the latest "shiny things," as one marketing leader calls them, but something that with some effort on our part will produce, not a "tidal wave" or "flood" of income but a steady, growing revenue stream. If with time and effort, we can build it into something floody or tidal wavy, so much the better. Please consider or reconsider the most powerful Internet tactic of all - one that so many of you are leaving on the table but that ultimately is irresistible: simple, unwavering honesty.
Well, that's my rant for now. Undoubtedly some will see things another way...and jolly good for varying opinions. But now I've off-loaded my burden and can get back to tweaking SEO on some Christmas-targeted sites I'm laboring on. And all the best to all of Ye Who Toil in the I.M. salt mines.
#“mass #“mass #annihilation #avalanche #billiondollar #dear #domination #formula” #gurus… #secret #sniper
  • Profile picture of the author Mangozoom
    Definitely with you on point 3 ... I have begun unsubscribing from the lists of some of the big names as they seem to have just gotten greedy and send any old crap.

    John
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    • Profile picture of the author alpacabob
      Originally Posted by Mangozoom View Post

      Definitely with you on point 3 ... I have begun unsubscribing from the lists of some of the big names as they seem to have just gotten greedy and send any old crap.

      John
      I'm so with you on this. I've always been wary of self-stylized gurus, but it seems that there's a pattern in which they begin with providing reasonable content and then gradually realize that they could be raking in gazillions of dollars by promoting without ethics. I was so saddened when I thought I'd found the diamond in the rough only to discover that said marketer lost all sense of ethics and started promoting the classic overpriced false promise crap. I've unsubscribed from almost everyone now.

      I'd like to take up point 2 as well. Lots of people have gotten really good at copywriting of late. They make their products sound good. And it seems that in the past, I felt maybe slightly misled, but that the product was more or less what it said it was. In the last month, I've gotten three refunds from clickbank. The products just don't match up with what they say they are anymore. The most recent had 200 pages of content that came down to "by posting information online, people might find your website." Thanks Einstein.

      I agree with sbucciarel here. Just get off the lists and post that content. We all know we need to write it and get it online. So stop reading other people's crap- most of it's gone from semi-worthwhile to fully useless. Sorting the winnow from the chaff isn't worth my time anymore.
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Voss
    Dude,
    I am just waiting for the "Mass Domination Billion-Dollar Annihilation Secret Sniper Avalanche Formula" to come out.

    Sounds awesome!! I can't wait to learn how to choose a good domain name, do good keyword research, do good SEO, write good articles – then bookmark and backlink the dickens out of your site(s).

    Sign me up for $1997 + $497 per month!!!

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    • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
      Originally Posted by Scott Voss View Post

      I am just waiting for the "Mass Domination Billion-Dollar Annihilation Secret Sniper Avalanche Formula" to come out.

      Sounds awesome!!

      Me too!

      I bet it will be the one true missing link to sudden, easy riches that all other gurus have held back all these years.

      I hope they sell more than 100 copies so I have a chance to buy it!


      The other side to this is that people keep looking for the magic key to sudden easy riches instead of simply applying the knowledge they already have in an intelligent, consistent way.

      Many warrior forum members have more than enough knowledge to make good money but lack the follow through to actually do it.

      Kindest regards,
      Andrew Cavanagh
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      • Profile picture of the author sal64
        Originally Posted by AndrewCavanagh View Post

        Me too!

        I bet it will be the one true missing link to sudden, easy riches that all other gurus have held back all these years.

        I hope they sell more than 100 copies so I have a chance to buy it!

        Kindest regards,
        Andrew Cavanagh
        Yes, but if you buy it through my affiliate link, I'll give you a gazillion dollars worth of bonuses as well as access to my pen!!s enlargement software.
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        • Profile picture of the author SDenham
          LMAO @
          Originally Posted by sal64 View Post

          access to my pen!!s enlargement software.
          That would sell like hotcakes, I'll be your first affiliate!
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    • Profile picture of the author Pedroskovic
      Originally Posted by Scott Voss View Post

      Dude,
      I am just waiting for the "Mass Domination Billion-Dollar Annihilation Secret Sniper Avalanche Formula" to come out.

      Sounds awesome!! I can't wait to learn how to choose a good domain name, do good keyword research, do good SEO, write good articles - then bookmark and backlink the dickens out of your site(s).

      Sign me up for $1997 + $497 per month!!!

      Me too! Awesome.
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      • Profile picture of the author Keith Boisvert
        I would have to agree with Steve W on this one and that ones perception of the content delivered is all based on previous personal experiences.

        Are there super over hyped products that under-deliver....damn skippy there are. But if you have been in this industry for any length of time you shouldn't be surprised.

        Its been overstated here but there is no magic bullet to replace hard work and focus. No one plan can work verbatim for everyone, they all have to be modified to YOU and your skill set.

        So we can sit here and whine, piss and moan and get our panties in a bunch about how the guru's are treating people or their lack of content...but this conversation has been had many times and new products are being generated and people are still buying.

        I prefer to STFU about it, go about my day and build my business off of hard work and learn what I can where I can with no preconceived notions that a single product can make me millions. But that's just me.

        ~keith

        Edit: In no way did I intend to imply that my "panties" were in a bunch(I only wear them on Sunday's anyway)
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        • Profile picture of the author mcmahanusa
          Well, to be honest, I would love to whine, piss and moan, but in the past the general reaction has been, "Here's a quarter. Go call someone who gives a s***.

          I can understand the sometimes disgust with the gurus promising ....well, everything magical, and promoting what to those with experience seems to be warmed-over hash, but......as someone else noted, the value can be there for the novice.

          Like others, I now unsubscribe when someone consistently peddles over-priced garbage. But on the other hand, there some pros (I hate the term guru), mostly members of the WF, who continually and consistently overdeliver, and I love to get their emails and occasional offers, and I never regret buying what they have to offer.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lisa Gergets
    And this is why they call me.....


    But seriously, you have some excellent points. What I wish more people would "get" is that there is no secret to success, just hard work. It's like anything else in life - the more you put into it, the more you'll get out of it!
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    • Profile picture of the author Aaron.Scott
      I hear ya man I hear ya....

      But let me just throw my 2c in here...

      Most product DO WORK, but most people DON't work them plain and simple.

      They all make it seem to easy to be true and in most cases it isn't true... it is hard, in fact it's really hard...

      I see where a lot of peoples disconnect is... the product owner talk's like a kid could do it but once you actually try it your results aren't the same or flat out don't work THE FIRST TIME..

      That is what everybody needs to get about this stuff... it takes persistence and testing along with a freaking massive amount of action!
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    • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
      Originally Posted by Page-One View Post

      [*]Most of us who belong to WF, I want to believe, are hungry for integrity in Internet marketing. We want not the latest "shiny things," as one marketing leader calls them, but something that with some effort on our part will produce, not a "tidal wave" or "flood" of income but a steady, growing revenue stream. If with time and effort, we can build it into something floody or tidal wavy, so much the better.[/LIST]
      You think so huh? That's where I think you're missing it. You see, you and I WISH that were the case. However, the blinding truth is that most people around here want fast, free and easy.

      It's inherent in human nature, but when you mix in people who are financially under pressure, lazy and/or don't have time to "work" on creating something slow burning but long lasting, then you have the recipe for a market that will keep buying these dreams all day long.

      I never had any official business training, like many other folks in this game. If I did, I would have saved about 3 years buying hope and be much further ahead today.

      Sadly, some people don't want that reality. The thrill of learning new secrets and getting a lifeline to untold riches is addictive. It takes a lot to turn around and say "screw it, this product isn't for me."

      And for most people in this market, they're bouncing around from one system to the next, so there's no objection to trying something new, because everything they see is something they can "try" today.

      When you have a real business, it's easier to say "this doesn't fit what I'm doing right now, so I won't buy it."

      But yeah, unltimately, this make money online market is like the weight loss market. People get fat (broke/lose job/have an emergency) then they look for a way to lose 20lbs in 4 days (make $100k per week whilst farting in your sleep.)
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      • Profile picture of the author Tom B
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Nick Brighton View Post

        However, the blinding truth is that most people around here want fast, free and easy.
        My type of woman. Oh... you were talking about IM. My bad.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tony Dean
    Right on Ken!
    I too unsubscribed from so many 'guru's' emails for the same reason. Like you say there is nothing new on the net.
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  • Profile picture of the author thebitbotdotcom
    I actually only subscribe to one guru, and it's just to see his email and hard sell patterns.

    I feel like I have learned all of the solid basics right here on good ol' WF. I have my own formula.

    I am going for the slow burn. I have never bought and will never buy a scheme.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jason Fladlien
      Originally Posted by thebitbotdotcom View Post


      I am going for the slow burn. I have never bought and will never buy a scheme.
      I actually think that's sad. It's good to take a risk on a long shot every once in a while. As for slow burn? I want from 12$ an hour to $100,000 a year to $100,000 a month in the span of 38 months.

      That's fast enough for me
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    • Profile picture of the author mnonline
      Originally Posted by thebitbotdotcom View Post

      I actually only subscribe to one guru, and it's just to see his email and hard sell patterns.

      I feel like I have learned all of the solid basics right here on good ol' WF. I have my own formula.

      I am going for the slow burn. I have never bought and will never buy a scheme.

      That's great when you have secured a working formula. I believe that there are still dots for you to connect somehow since gurus don't give everything in one. Willing to take risk is a good thing. And i think we all should. It is not a scheme, it's valuable information for you to obtain. Most people don't have these information to start with so it needed to be provided. I know that some of us already have these information. Just disregard information that you already have learned.

      I also believe that taking risk buying info products are less risky than investing in stocks/securities You could lose $thousands. With info products, you gain knowledge. Knowledge will gain you money. Anyone here agree?

      Just a thought,
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  • Profile picture of the author simonsstuart
    Yay...some common sense at last. The trouble is that sadly most folks will ignore because at the end of the day most folks want to believe the dream and as long as there are the "dream sellers" out there then a large percentage of folks will get parted form their first couple of hundred dollars at least......till they wise up.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Stop buying and get off the lists so we don't hear your rants anymore. Simple solution. You put yourself there.

    I personally am sick to death of all the guru bashing, product bashing posts. You are drawn to them like moths to lightbulbs and then you get on every list under the sun and buy product after product, expecting to get rich without really working very hard and then ....

    ta da drum roll please

    when it doesn't happen, you come in here and bitch and whine to everyone else. It's predictable.
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    • Profile picture of the author tgo57
      I identify with #6.

      Just show me the steps to work hard and make $100 day, and I will put in the work and effort to figure out the rest!

      Great post!
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      Stop buying and get off the lists so we don't hear your rants anymore. Simple solution. You put yourself there.

      I personally am sick to death of all the guru bashing, product bashing posts. You are drawn to them like moths to lightbulbs and then you get on every list under the sun and buy product after product, expecting to get rich without really working very hard and then ....

      ta da drum roll please

      when it doesn't happen, you come in here and bitch and whine to everyone else. It's predictable.
      QFT!!!

      It doesn't happen very often, but in this case, I agree one hundred percent with Suzanne

      People are tired of all of the mass domination billion-dollar blah blah blah because in my opinion they are too dense not to take everything so damn literal.

      We as buyers from time to time (some more than others) get sucked into the sales copy (because it's damn good) , but the same thing happens offline too.

      After watching an Axe Body spray commercial, I promptly ran out and grabbed myself a bottle, because the commercial all but said that by spraying it on me, I would certainly get laid by numerous unknown hot ass women in the street, but it didn't happen

      Is there a difference between that example and the stuff that we buy online? ......Not really......
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

        QFT!!!

        It doesn't happen very often, but in this case, I agree one hundred percent with Suzanne
        lol ... this is a banner day. Drinks are on the house for everyone in the bar!
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      • Profile picture of the author Scott Voss
        WHA?!?!?

        I just bought a bottle for that very reason and was saving it for a special day.

        Looks like I better take it back to the store and get the Old Spice body wash so I look like that guy instead!

        Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

        After watching an Axe Body spray commercial, I promptly ran out and grabbed myself a bottle, because the commercial all but said that by spraying it on me, I would certainly get laid by numerous unknown hot ass women in the street, but it didn't happen
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        • Profile picture of the author mr2monster
          Originally Posted by Scott Voss View Post

          WHA?!?!?

          I just bought a bottle for that very reason and was saving it for a special day.

          Looks like I better take it back to the store and get the Old Spice body wash so I look like that guy instead!

          Nah, don't waste your time.... All these deodorant guru companies, promising freshly smelling arm pits, lovely women crawling all over you, and amazing physical attractiveness are all the same... they're all LIARS!

          I'm never buying from any of them again... in fact, I'm going to report all of them to scam.com. I'm better off just saving my money and smelling like a turd anyway. :p
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      • Profile picture of the author SDenham
        Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

        QFT!!!

        It doesn't happen very often, but in this case, I agree one hundred percent with Suzanne

        People are tired of all of the mass domination billion-dollar blah blah blah because in my opinion they are too dense not to take everything so damn literal.

        We as buyers from time to time (some more than others) get sucked into the sales copy (because it's damn good) , but the same thing happens offline too.

        After watching an Axe Body spray commercial, I promptly ran out and grabbed myself a bottle, because the commercial all but said that by spraying it on me, I would certainly get laid by numerous unknown hot ass women in the street, but it didn't happen

        Is there a difference between that example and the stuff that we buy online? ......Not really......
        Well, that stuff does smell awesome. I may not be some random hot-ass woman in the streets, but I like a manly smelling man.

        You busy later?

        LOL
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    • Profile picture of the author d0rhk
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      Stop buying and get off the lists so we don't hear your rants anymore. Simple solution. You put yourself there.

      I personally am sick to death of all the guru bashing, product bashing posts. You are drawn to them like moths to lightbulbs and then you get on every list under the sun and buy product after product, expecting to get rich without really working very hard and then ....

      ta da drum roll please

      when it doesn't happen, you come in here and bitch and whine to everyone else. It's predictable.
      I love your post.
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    • Profile picture of the author Martin Brock
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      Stop buying and get off the lists so we don't hear your rants anymore. Simple solution. You put yourself there.

      I personally am sick to death of all the guru bashing, product bashing posts. You are drawn to them like moths to lightbulbs and then you get on every list under the sun and buy product after product, expecting to get rich without really working very hard and then ....

      ta da drum roll please

      when it doesn't happen, you come in here and bitch and whine to everyone else. It's predictable.
      So anyone who would like to see more integrity in this industry is by your definition a "guru basher" who whines and complains because the products didn't deliver as promised for them personally?

      Please do me a favor and point out exactly where Page-One (the starter of the thread) whines and complains because he didn't make millions with no hard work, because I certainly missed that part!
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Martin Brock View Post

        So anyone who would like to see more integrity in this industry is by your definition a "guru basher" who whines and complains because the products didn't deliver as promised for them personally?

        Please do me a favor and point out exactly where Page-One (the starter of the thread) whines and complains because he didn't make millions with no hard work, because I certainly missed that part!
        He is bashing guru launches in particular and he states that all those cars and promises of riches leave him cold. Sounds like he has good instincts ... so why not unsubscribe from the list or just leave the sales page.

        There are good product launches and bad product launches and good gurus and bad gurus. Everyone who is adult enough make purchasing decisions, should be adult enough to make sound purchasing decisions and leave the rest.

        Neither you nor the OP or anyone else is going to bring "integrity" into this business. There are plenty of scams around, but it's not only online ... TV commercials, newspaper and magazine ads ... many promise and do not deliver.

        Then there are products that are sound and have an excellent and well deserved reputation.

        You, as the buyer are solely responsible for doing the research and making sound purchasing decisions. To bash guru and product launches in general leaves the impression that they're all the same, which they are not. Some actually do provide value, but it's absolutely up to each individual to research products before buying them.

        That's what the review forum here is for.
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      Stop buying and get off the lists so we don't hear your rants anymore. Simple solution. You put yourself there.

      I personally am sick to death of all the guru bashing, product bashing posts. You are drawn to them like moths to lightbulbs and then you get on every list under the sun and buy product after product, expecting to get rich without really working very hard and then ....

      ta da drum roll please

      when it doesn't happen, you come in here and bitch and whine to everyone else. It's predictable.

      Whoa cowboy (or should I say cowgirl) Calm down take a deep breath and chill out.

      Personally, I welcome people coming in here and disclosing their concerns and frustrations about IM and the landscape involved with it. As long as it is well thought out and there is a certain amount of integrity and politeness in the Post , I say go for it. The OP had all these ingredients and more, plus he presented his concerns logically and appropriately .

      So relax
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    • Profile picture of the author Ldimilo
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      Stop buying and get off the lists so we don't hear your rants anymore. Simple solution. You put yourself there.

      I personally am sick to death of all the guru bashing, product bashing posts. You are drawn to them like moths to lightbulbs and then you get on every list under the sun and buy product after product, expecting to get rich without really working very hard and then ....

      ta da drum roll please

      when it doesn't happen, you come in here and bitch and whine to everyone else. It's predictable.
      Amen...amen....amen....amen....(can't say that enough)

      Marketers market. If there wasn't a market for what they market, chances are they would stop marketing.

      I find it funny that this forum, which is about marketing online, is also very critical of other marketers doing what they do....market online.....go figure....
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      • Profile picture of the author discrat
        Originally Posted by Ldimilo View Post

        Amen...amen....amen....amen....(can't say that enough)

        I find it funny that this forum, which is about marketing online, is also very critical of other marketers doing what they do....market online.....go figure....

        Kind of like the pot calling the kettle black
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        • Profile picture of the author Ldimilo
          Originally Posted by discrat View Post

          Kind of like the pot calling the kettle black
          Ain't it though?
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      • Profile picture of the author ZaraK
        Originally Posted by Ldimilo View Post

        Amen...amen....amen....amen....(can't say that enough)

        Marketers market. If there wasn't a market for what they market, chances are they would stop marketing.

        I find it funny that this forum, which is about marketing online, is also very critical of other marketers doing what they do....market online.....go figure....
        There is a substantial and fundamental difference between a solid professional marketer and a substandard, scammy hawker of goods, services, or information. There are far more of the latter than the former in the "Internet Marketing" (using the term loosely) world. They are all called marketers, but calling a pigs ear a silk purse doesn't make it so.
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        I will ignore the shiny stuff. I will ignore the shiny stuff. I am ignoring the shiny stu....what's that? Hey! Didn't I say I was ignoring the shiny stuff?
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  • Profile picture of the author Simon Ashari
    One word...

    Unsubscribe.

    The end.

    -Simon
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Dont participate if you dont like the game. Tennis shoes are made of rubber, that doesnt make every different brand of them a scam just because the idea of rubber soles has "been done"... people have different takes an flavors, one thing they say may be more enlightening than a whole 500 page book... maybe you should read with more gratitude for the writers intention and not so much skepticism and you will find more value.

    Ps . they are only selling you the information you are seeking for.
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    • Profile picture of the author alpacabob
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Dont participate if you dont like the game. Tennis shoes are made of rubber, that doesnt make every different brand of them a scam just because the idea of rubber soles has "been done"... people have different takes an flavors, one thing they say may be more enlightening than a whole 500 page book... maybe you should read with more gratitude for the writers intention and not so much skepticism and you will find more value.

      Ps . they are only selling you the information you are seeking for.
      If your postscript were true, then I'd see no problem. I've kept information products that I didn't end up needing because they did tell me what they said they would. But honesty in sales seems to have gone out the window for all but a few people selling products to people like us.

      To be clear, I'm not saying the mechanism being used is an outright lie- it's more like equivocating about your product till nobody really knows what you're selling. I bought a "backlink builder" which turned out to be a text editor with instructions for hand-submitting articles- they couldn't even include an article submitter. I could build backlinks with it- but I could also build backlinks by doing this with a word processing program and some article directory lists.

      To be clear- selling and copywriting are our game- that's fine. But copywriting and sales are wordcraft designed to pull triggers that raise excitement. Lots of times the product isn't as exciting as the sales message, but if the product is the one described in the sales message, then so be it. If the product is not the product described, then it's fraud, lies, and immoral.

      I still pay attention to gurus as primary sources- they are good salesmen, so watching them in action can be a lesson unto itself. But I don't trust nearly any of them anymore.

      So gurus- bear in mind that you're killing your reputations.

      And truthfully- sales tactics like this are why drug companies are getting sued all the time. Zyprexa is a really good anti-psychotic- but it just doesn't treat Alzheimer's. A text editor with good instructions on how to submit to directories can help you build backlinks, but it's not an automated backlink program. I'll be shocked if I ever see a lawsuit here (it really wouldn't be appropriate in my mind- reserve that for when people get hurt), but the similarity is sad. The worst corporate tactics are being pulled on us every day.

      Last thought- there are still good people selling good products. If you have the energy, sift out the diamonds from the rough- but there's a lot more rough than diamonds- and those diamonds are harder and harder to find.
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  • Hi Ken,

    interesting stuff.

    As you can see I am new to this environment like yourself.

    I have been in the bricks and mortar world as a CEO so perhaps my perspective is coloured by this experience.

    Let's face it, whether bricks and mortar or internet based, people are still involved. This means there are good eggs and bad eggs.

    I dislike the words "newbie" and "guru" but that's just me.

    I think the problem with us greenhorns is that we are looking for something that is easy, that fits perfectly into our immature preconception of what internet marketing really is, and that will require the minimum activity of our grey matter.

    You need to have done your own homework and approach each offer with your eyes wide open - we all get to know "the game", but if you are serious about building an internet business - I did use the word business - then you will be looking at the long term and this takes a deal of effort, commitment, focus and self discipline.

    OK there are some people who, in my opinion, over do the promotion of the "next best thing" via their list, but we all have a delete or unsubscribe option. If you opt in to something you know what's going to happen.

    One of the things that struck me about internet business opportunities, which is both a huge advantage and disadvantage, is they require stuff-all start-up capital and resources, and their immediacy is huge. Therefore to succeed you need to develop a strategy with an associated plan to stick to, plus "nous" and "savvy", in other words street smarts!

    Another observation is the lack of risk, with most having 60 day refund periods!!! You don't get this option in the corporate world!!!

    So the analogy of a "kid in a candy store" is close, but sometimes we complain because the flavour wasn't what we expected.

    My advice to you now you have that out of your system, is to literally "mind your own business" and help it become profitable.

    Hope this helps.



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  • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
    on a side note (re: TV commercials) the difference is they "get away with it" because they use the power of suggestion instead of making promises that can't be achieved and telling lies.

    For example - a popular aftershave (cologne) advert might feature a guy getting laid in a 5 star hotel after he sprayed some of it on his neck.

    There's a true distinction between that power suggestion and that of a guy with a website who claims that his $27 eBook that contains theories which have never been proven will make you RICH regardless of your skills, circumstances or learning style.

    The internet is truly a wild-west culture, even today. Doesn't mean all information is crap though. I've bought a couple of products in the last 4 years that really did open my eyes.

    But for me personally, that's all they did - open my eyes. I never expected them to transport me to financial freedom or do the work for me. Heck, I didn't even expect to use the system. It's the ideas that stretch the mind, for me, which creates the true freedom.
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  • Profile picture of the author OnlineMasterMind
    Originally Posted by Page-One View Post

    Times are tough out here.
    Interesting belief you have...

    My belief is that we live in a world full of abundance and people are spending more money online than ever.
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    • Profile picture of the author psresearch
      I understand what Jeremy and Suzanne are saying, because the same people do keep making the same mistake over and over and over again.

      However, I thought Page-One did a good and entertaining job of what even the smarter newbie experience is like over a period of time.
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  • Profile picture of the author MilesT
    Ugh. give me a break.

    You have to take the good with the bad, ya know?

    Business is tough. But you still have to build relationships with the good and the bad to make it work.

    Good luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author tedwood
    Im 18 and already i've realised there is no such thing as a secret or a lucky pearl it's all bull****.
    Here's a tip better than all the gurus will EVER teach you.
    1 - Have a plan
    2 - Work your ass off
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    • Profile picture of the author mnonline
      Originally Posted by tedwood View Post

      Im 18 and already i've realised there is no such thing as a secret or a lucky pearl it's all bull****.
      Here's a tip better than all the gurus will EVER teach you.
      1 - Have a plan
      2 - Work your ass off
      If you don't have useful info, you will be uncertain to do anything. You really want to work 9-5 ? It's better to work smart, not hard.

      You still have a lot to learn. By the way, you should reconsider your thought sometimes in the future. Learn to get the right mindset. Don't ignore opportunities. Don't wait for it to come, rather find it.

      Your plan is too simple and can't be apply in anyway.
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      • Profile picture of the author tedwood
        Originally Posted by mnonline View Post

        If you don't have useful info, you will be uncertain to do anything. You really want to work 9-5 ? It's better to work smart, not hard.

        You still have a lot to learn. By the way, you should reconsider your thought sometimes in the future. Learn to get the right mindset. Don't ignore opportunities. Don't wait for it to come, rather find it.

        Your plan is too simple and can't be apply in anyway.
        No my friend you are missing the point. It took me about 6 months to learn everything i need to know about IM to make money.

        The fact is loads of people know exactly what to do but don't act. In the action plan you could state "Learn Wordpress" Or "How to Cloak Links" .... that would go into the plan and then you act i.e. "Don't wait for it to come, rather find it".

        Simple is the best way to progress.
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  • As long as there are idiots there will be people willing to serve that market of idiots.

    Internet Ethics is an Oxymoron.

    And that's just the way it is. Do unto others before they do unto you seems to be the IM Creed.

    Sad... but look around

    45 Million Americans living below the poverty line.

    This World is a very messed up place.

    Be the best you can be and that's all you can do.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by InternetMarketingIQ View Post

      As long as there are idiots there will be people willing to serve that market of idiots.

      Internet Ethics is an Oxymoron.

      And that's just the way it is. Do unto others before they do unto you seems to be the IM Creed.

      Sad... but look around

      45 Million Americans living below the poverty line.

      This World is a very messed up place.

      Be the best you can be and that's all you can do.
      Yes, but these reports here take one of those 45 million every here and there, and help them turn their life around and get out of that statistical category.
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    • Profile picture of the author mnonline
      Originally Posted by InternetMarketingIQ View Post

      As long as there are idiots there will be people willing to serve that market of idiots.

      Internet Ethics is an Oxymoron.

      And that's just the way it is. Do unto others before they do unto you seems to be the IM Creed.

      Sad... but look around

      45 Million Americans living below the poverty line.

      This World is a very messed up place.

      Be the best you can be and that's all you can do.

      I believe that the products gurus offered can also be a life changing opportunity. Just because most people failed, it doesn't mean that others didn't succeed. Most failed are results of a similar cause.
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      • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
        Originally Posted by mnonline View Post

        I believe that the products gurus offered can also be a life changing opportunity. Just because most people failed, it doesn't mean that others didn't succeed. Most failed are results of a similar cause.
        I think what the OP meant was not that each individual product was bad in itself. It was just that the same information was repeated again in different products and marketed as a completely new all conquering product lanunch.
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      • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
        Originally Posted by mnonline View Post

        I believe that the products gurus offered can also be a life changing opportunity. Just because most people failed, it doesn't mean that others didn't succeed. Most failed are results of a similar cause.

        I think making that argument is similar to saying:

        I gave 1000 people a teaspoon and dropped them off in the sea 30 miles from land - 2 people made it back to shore - so those losers that drowned just didn't get the value like the 'action takers' did.

        There's in intrinsic assumption fed into the IM community which is also supported by people who bought stuff and it never made any difference to them but they still want to believe they've made the right decisions.......

        If it didn't work for me - it probably worked for someone else and therefore has value.

        Except - the only people you 'know' it worked for are the people who gave testimonials that were part of the sales process.

        And we've already seen how many people see marketing online the same as on TV and happily think that if you paid an actor to be a 'successful' affiliate and read the script they were given - well, that's just the same as the actor selling you insurance - you know THEY haven't used what they're promoting, but that's just marketing - isn't it?

        It's a double-edged sword.

        There are people lying to you and selling you crap that will never make you money just so they can pay their graphics guy to make pictures of the life they wish they had (and are telling you they do have).

        But there are also people selling useful and insightful information that has helped them and they want to share with you.

        Your success is not dependent on someone else or their products/services.

        If you think someone else needs to tell you how to be successful, you're in for a bumpy ride and you're likely to get taken to the cleaners by people who are comfortable promising what you want to hear.

        It's not necessarily your fault - at first, as you wouldn't necessarily believe that people would tell such lies and be able to get away with it.

        But once you realise the situation - it's all you.

        At least whatever stage you're at - you have this forum to come to and get a little dose of reality and inspiration.

        The only 'bad' thing you can do is not take responsibility for your own results and keep blaming others if you don't succeed.

        The sooner you realise that if all you do is find one small strategy that works and repeat it you can make good money - the shorter and less painful your journey will be.

        Now is just as good a time as ever to be making money online so the news is good as long as you're working your own plan and not someone else's.

        Andy
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        nothing to see here.

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        • Profile picture of the author VeitSchenk
          mhmm, although I agree with Andy on the basic principle (gotta take responsibility), there is something at play that the gurus are using (possibly unwittingly) which is almost 'forcing' you to give up that responsibility:

          in a nutshell, it's this:

          many people who are in the IM niche are stressed (either they got into it because they were fed up with their job, had trouble in their relationship, whatever). And IM-riches are supposed to be a way out.
          Unfortunately, IM-riches don't come quickly, so stress and anxiety goes up. Your brain then searches for a way to reduce stress.
          And as it can't tell the difference between real and make-belief, it'll take the first thing that promises to reduce stress quickly and without any effort. Like buying a course (which is then equated to the Ferrari-lifestyle, i.e. NO STRESS whatsoever).

          then of course, turns out it's either a crap course, or you lack some skills or resources, so you end up not implementing, not getting the IM-riches and the stress goes up again.... until you buy the next course to reduce the stress.

          so, yes, the way out of this is to take full responsibility, BUT: it's pretty darn hard, because this stress-reduction response is hard-wired in our brains.

          Veit

          Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post


          If you think someone else needs to tell you how to be successful, you're in for a bumpy ride and you're likely to get taken to the cleaners by people who are comfortable promising what you want to hear.

          It's not necessarily your fault - at first, as you wouldn't necessarily believe that people would tell such lies and be able to get away with it.

          But once you realise the situation - it's all you.

          At least whatever stage you're at - you have this forum to come to and get a little dose of reality and inspiration.

          The only 'bad' thing you can do is not take responsibility for your own results and keep blaming others if you don't succeed.

          The sooner you realise that if all you do is find one small strategy that works and repeat it you can make good money - the shorter and less painful your journey will be.

          Now is just as good a time as every to be making money online so the news is good as long as you're working your own plan and not someone else's.

          Andy
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          • Profile picture of the author sal64
            Originally Posted by VeitSchenk View Post

            mhmm, although I agree with Andy on the basic principle (gotta take responsibility), there is something at play that the gurus are using (possibly unwittingly) which is almost 'forcing' you to give up that responsibility:

            in a nutshell, it's this:

            many people who are in the IM niche are stressed (either they got into it because they were fed up with their job, had trouble in their relationship, whatever). And IM-riches are supposed to be a way out.
            Unfortunately, IM-riches don't come quickly, so stress and anxiety goes up. Your brain then searches for a way to reduce stress.
            And as it can't tell the difference between real and make-belief, it'll take the first thing that promises to reduce stress quickly and without any effort. Like buying a course (which is then equated to the Ferrari-lifestyle, i.e. NO STRESS whatsoever).

            then of course, turns out it's either a crap course, or you lack some skills or resources, so you end up not implementing, not getting the IM-riches and the stress goes up again.... until you buy the next course to reduce the stress.

            so, yes, the way out of this is to take full responsibility, BUT: it's pretty darn hard, because this stress-reduction response is hard-wired in our brains.

            Veit

            This is so true!

            What the gurus do is basically follow a well worn path to launch by creating buzz and interest and suspense. No different to the real world. The only difference is the price tag in most cases.

            It happens when a movie comes out... heck it happens every week with soap operas. So what's the big deal. Like TV, we have the option to switch off and focus elsewhere.

            For the guru launchers: How about you stop promoting products that you don't use yourself?

            For the guru bashers: If guru offered to do a lunch for your product, would you knock it back? Sh11t, I know I wouldn't.

            Let's get some perspective here. We are primarily marketers and we sell hope. o let's not hang a colleague who does the same... just because they do it better than you.
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  • Profile picture of the author mnonline
    You did made some great points there. However, the strategies gurus offered are for people who are new. They need to to learn information to gain knowledge about Internet Marketing. Their strategies do work if you can do it right. I believe that most people can't follow instructions right, especially people that are new. Information seem to be overwhelmed for them. Thus they simply ignored it. And the results? They failed.

    So the best thing you should do now is to learn one thing at a time until you actually understand it. You need to stay focus really. I know that most of you can't do this. Train your mindset. Learn the basics. You will eventually get there. I'm serious.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheMagicShow
    Originally Posted by DeAndre Moore View Post

    Proven system to...




    ... you just came up with my next million dollar headline. The people have spoken.
    I'm Adding that to my swipe file, is it ok?
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  • Profile picture of the author The Oilman
    SEems like everyone is hatin' on the gurus these days.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
    You know...this may be chicken or egg discussion but...

    I sell a product aimed at starting an online business - it's targeted that way - but it's my least selling product.

    Why?

    Well, to highlight - an email I got from one guy considering purchasing. He said "I don't want to start a business - just earn money for me to have a nice life".

    To my reply -

    Well, if you make enough money to pay your bills and have a nice life, you have a business, whether you think you do or you don't! Taxes, organization, work flow, outsourced workers, managers (even if it's just you), selling a product (even as an affiliate) - sounds like a business to me!

    If you treat it like a business, it will reward you - treat it as a hobby, and well, a hobby is what it will be.

    Getting back on point - you see these guru's doing the things you highlight in the first post because they sell!

    And will continue to sell...for ever and ever.

    Perhaps I should redo the sales letter for my product - and drop the word business - and building?

    It would probably sell more - but then people would refund because I use the word WORK in the product.

    So, as a product seller, what am I to do?

    Rob
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    • Profile picture of the author mr2monster
      Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

      You know...this may be chicken or egg discussion but...

      I sell a product aimed at starting an online business - it's targeted that way - but it's my least selling product.

      Why?

      Well, to highlight - an email I got from one guy considering purchasing. He said "I don't want to start a business - just earn money for me to have a nice life".

      To my reply -

      Well, if you make enough money to pay your bills and have a nice life, you have a business, whether you think you do or you don't! Taxes, organization, work flow, outsourced workers, managers (even if it's just you), selling a product (even as an affiliate) - sounds like a business to me!

      If you treat it like a business, it will reward you - treat it as a hobby, and well, a hobby is what it will be.

      Getting back on point - you see these guru's doing the things you highlight in the first post because they sell!

      And will continue to sell...for ever and ever.

      Perhaps I should redo the sales letter for my product - and drop the word business - and building?

      It would probably sell more - but then people would refund because I use the word WORK in the product.

      So, as a product seller, what am I to do?

      Rob

      Interestingly enough, I am currently conducting a split test (albeit not exactly scientific) inspired by this thread, on a product that I will be launching soon.


      I split tested two order pages. Extremely short copy on both (because I was lazy).


      One is a shortened version of my original sales copy that was converting rather well for me... the other is completely new copy that is brutally honest.

      I even explicitly say:
      Straight up, don't buy this if you think you're just going to start making money simply based on the fact that you bought the course.
      However, if you're not afraid to put in some elbow grease, and want to have a legitimate business that can put money into your bank account on a regular basis, click that buy now button and let's roll!
      So far, they're dead even on stats, both converting cold PPC at 1.1%


      I'm losing money on both campaigns... but both are moving product..
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      • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
        Well, that shows you that the biggest factor is always the product and offer.

        How much traffic have you thrown at each?

        Originally Posted by mr2monster View Post

        Interestingly enough, I am currently conducting a split test (albeit not exactly scientific) inspired by this thread, on a product that I will be launching soon.


        I split tested two order pages. Extremely short copy on both (because I was lazy).


        One is a shortened version of my original sales copy that was converting rather well for me... the other is completely new copy that is brutally honest.

        I even explicitly say:

        So far, they're dead even on stats, both converting cold PPC at 1.1%


        I'm losing money on both campaigns... but both are moving product..
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        • Profile picture of the author sal64
          It's a vicious cycle isn't it?

          The Gurus perpetuate the system that they are teaching us. Look closely at product launches. They follow the exact marketing steps we are told to follow.

          It's like prostitution... if there wasn't a demand... there would not be supply.

          Anyways, I think I learnt a while back to just delete the emails.

          Freedom of choice - use it.
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        • Profile picture of the author mr2monster
          Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

          Well, that shows you that the biggest factor is always the product and offer.

          How much traffic have you thrown at each?

          Well, i hate to disappoint, but the original is now outperforming the honest one.


          Abbreviated Sales Copy: 1.16% - 5 sold

          Honest Abe: .67 - 3 sold


          Each page has received roughly 450 views now. And I'm killing it because I'm eating the horse on it.. haha. I learned a lot from the test though... well worth the loss on profit.

          Oh how i love virtually-no-overhead products... :p
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            I am going to come at this from a completely different angle and mind you,
            I am not defending false advertising or shoddy products.

            Problem is, and this is never going to change, our perspective of this
            problem comes from our experience level.

            If I showed my daughter, who is right now starting to kind of get into IM
            with her little Adsense and Amazon stuff, Nitro Marketing Blueprint, she
            would not only think it was amazing, but she might be overwhelmed by it
            all as well.

            If I showed that same Nitro Marketing Blueprint to some of you grizzled
            veterans, you'd say, "Same old, same old" just like the OP pointed out
            with his complaining of the usual...

            keyword research
            write content
            do backlinks

            blah, blah, blah.

            Folks, if you're that far advanced and know all the basics....

            STOP BUYING THIS SH*T

            You're not going to find out anything new.

            There IS nothing new.

            If you don't have enough knowledge to build a 6 figure business after
            getting ONE product like Nitro Marketing Blueprint of whatever the flavor
            of the day is, then you are NEVER going to get that knowledge.

            Because any standard (yes, I said standard) home business "here's how
            you do it" product SHOULD give you ALL that you need.

            So if you're seeing product after product of the same old same old, then
            whose fault it is?

            I'll let YOU answer that question.

            I bought my last mega "do it all in a box super gizmo" a LONG time ago.

            What's YOUR excuse?
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            • Profile picture of the author alpacabob
              You know- there's a serious structural issue. When I learned about the ideal niche- it's people who are ready to buy or invest, who spend a lot of time online, and who will buy products that can be delivered online. That sounds like internet marketers to me. And as we've gotten more savvy about guru products, their tricks don't work as well (a lot of us have seen product launch formula/mass control/etc. and laugh at some of the poor attempts at "scarcity" or whatever it is).

              Irregardless, the trouble is false advertising. I've gotten through more and more sales letters that say they have some trick- and describe it enough to give you an idea that it's something- but not anything like what it actually is. Seriously- in most industries, this crap lands you in court. But legality aside, have some ethics and respect and stop taking advantage of your fellow IMers.

              My take is this, though. Most of our products have some kind of guarantee "or your money back." So get your money back. Give it a quick evaluation and if it's worthless, as for a refund. Done.
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              • Profile picture of the author Page-One
                Well, after 60 or so replies here, methinks I'll jump back into the fray briefly. Have checked the replies a couple times to "catch up," but lately have been working nonstop to get some pre-Christmas sites up. Onsite SEO done...now comes the Offsite.

                At any rate, friends, neighbors, fellow I.M.ers and other assorted humanoids, thanks for all your input. This is truly one amazing forum.

                As I anticipated in the Original Post, "some will see things another way...and jolly good for varying opinions." A little heat was indeed generated in the thread - but mostly light.

                I agree with each of you who point out that success isn't easy or magic...it means hard work and studying as if facing med college entrance exams. Also agreed, that to keep doing what isn't working (such as compulsively buying every Big Package that comes along) - each time expecting a different result - is truly insanity.

                Finally though, my intent was not so much to "bash" the gurus, even if it came across that way to some. My intent was rather to plea for more integrity...more reality...more truth-telling in the tactics of marketing - and to wish out loud that the gurus might consider that as a "better way."

                Some apparently believe that honesty is a losing and ineffective marketing principle. I disagree on that one. The only couple of "learning" packages I've bought so far were from those evidencing the highest level of ethics and integrity. And that's the only approach I want personally ever to use in good conscience, as I move on down the I.M. road.

                As old Edgar Guest the poet said:

                I have to live with myself and so
                I want to be fit for myself to know.
                I want to be able as days go by,
                always to look myself straight in the eye;
                I don't want to stand with the setting sun
                and hate myself for the things I have done....
                whatever happens I want to be
                self respecting and conscience free.

                Thanks again for adding your own value to my two cents. Together, maybe the thread has produced a couple bucks' worth of thoughts and ideas.
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          • Profile picture of the author VyctorB_10
            i gotta get in on this scoop..
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  • Profile picture of the author paulie888
    One thing that really annoys me about the latest IM products to hit the market recently is the REALLY cryptic sales copy that leaves you wondering what the heck it is that you're actually buying into. It can be over 3 pages long, but after reading through the whole thing you still have absolutely no idea what it is, except that it is some type of automated underground system that has never seen daylight before (which is highly improbable, considering that they're usually going for a pittance, typically in the $37 to $77 range). Is it any wonder that the refund rates on these latest products are probably sky high then?
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    I hear you - but that's much like saying buying lottery tickets would help reduce your stress if you believed 'today is the day' every time you bought one.

    But at some point you need a reality check to see whether your strategy is actually moving you forward.

    Many people treat unsuccessful IM like bad financial planning - they know they're in debt but they don't want to look at exactly how much - because that makes it more real.

    So they know they're causing their situation to get worse - but keep doing things to hurt their progress but hoping it all gets better before they have to deal with it.

    I guess for many people this is much like the problems that triggered the financial collapse - people who can't afford something are being told there's an easy way to get what they want and all they have to do is "sign here".

    They KNOW they can't afford it and they KNOW it will HAVE to come back and bite them at some point - but they want to believe it's possible and they want to improve their current situation so they let it happen.

    Now, there really were bad people lying to them and making false promises in order to convince them to buy - so there are 2 sides to it, however the majority of people know when they can and can't afford something and buying it even when you know you can't afford it yourself (despite what someone is promising you) still makes it your decision.

    At the end of the day when you have to tell your family that all the time you've spent and money you've layed out has come to nothing - is "but someone else told me making money was quick and easy if I just paid them $97" really going to cut it?

    Life is about deciding what you want and taking responsibility for making it happen - despite other people's attempts to distract you.

    The truth of it is - you don't NEED anything from anyone else, so whenever you let them convince you that you do - all you're really doing is handing over some of the power over your results.

    That may work out well - or not, but you are the only person who can give someone else any of your control.

    Sure, some people just want a little feeling that they're trying to make their situation better and will get enough of that from buying the latest product/ebook that they won't even read it because just paying for it made them feel better.

    It's no-one's fault that you don't get the results you want as it's your decision how to spend your time, energy, money and focus.

    As long as you feel you can blame other people you're holding yourself hostage to what other people want from you.
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  • Profile picture of the author l_christopher
    I'll beat the dead horse...why not lol?

    Everyone that's made a couple dollars online (and I haven't made NEARLY as much as others) simply realize that to get to the level you want to be you have to put the blinders on.

    I don't get mad at marketers for marketing. They have a job to do and they do it. The way I see it, no one is being robbed. You might like the copy, but there's no gun to your head making you press the "buy now" button.

    Someone said it here before, but I can't remember who: "You have to get out of the buy mentality and start selling online to make money. That's the fundamental secret to online success."

    Don't remember the guy, but it was great advice. All my funds are WSO frozen lol...
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  • Profile picture of the author jazbo
    So finally, after a decade, people are waking up to the fact that you dont make free and east cash online in the main, and you need to do some work. Welcome to reality.

    The problem is people want to believe that nonsense.
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  • Profile picture of the author Hoopatang
    If I agree with both Ken AND Suzanne, does that mean I'm screwed in the head?

    I think perhaps these "methods" bug us because we've looked behind the curtain and see the wizard pulling the levers. Much angst over something is simply redirected disgust with ourselves for falling for the trick for so long before we found out how easy it is to do.

    But, as a wise doctor would say: "if it hurts when you do that, then DON'T DO THAT!"
    Just unsubscribe if it's bugging you that much. No use wasting time, energy, and emotion getting pissed off about it when you could be putting those 3 valuable things into your own efforts.
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    • Profile picture of the author sal64
      Originally Posted by Hoopatang View Post

      If I agree with both Ken AND Suzanne, does that mean I'm screwed in the head?

      I think perhaps these "methods" bug us because we've looked behind the curtain and see the wizard pulling the levers. Much angst over something is simply redirected disgust with ourselves for falling for the trick for so long before we found out how easy it is to do.

      But, as a wise doctor would say: "if it hurts when you do that, then DON'T DO THAT!"
      Just unsubscribe if it's bugging you that much. No use wasting time, energy, and emotion getting pissed off about it when you could be putting those 3 valuable things into your own efforts.
      Sorry... your logic and intelligence have no place on this thread.
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  • Profile picture of the author shopperama
    After months of hard work and research I'd like to check you with folks if I understand and have boiled down what all the hype basically says.

    I think there are three basic models for individuals to make (or try to make) money online. 1. Selling ways to make money online on commission. 2. Creating an information product of your own to sell though Clickbank (or other) which is very similar to model 1 but you keep (nearly) all of the money. Then you also recruit others to sell for you using method 1. and 3. Promoting tangible products for a commission via the likes of Tradedoubler, Shareasale and others.

    1 and 2. I'm old enough to remember the days before the internet when newspaper ads would hype sell ways to make money from home. Just "buy the book" the ads would say and learn everything you need to know. When you got the book, guess what it said (and often took 200 pages to say), put an ad in a newspaper and sell a book like this telling people how to make money from home by placing newspaper ads and selling a book like this. Around and around it went. So what has changed? Well in my opinion the internet made it easier and cheaper to peddle this kind of "information" so it's now a very crowded place packed with people basically selling the same thing to each other or to hopeful newbies who are oversold and over hyped. They spend their 97.77 to get the same information that is in every other 97.77 package. Basically create another 97.77 package and sell it. You know it works because you bought one!

    3. In this method you promote products that average folks are shopping for online. This may be cameras, golf clubs, insurance, home loans, car accessories or whatever. You need to create a really great site around these products that will somehow intercept online shoppers who will come through your site to the vendor who will then reward you. Your site may also offer information products along with the tangible "How to get a Perfect Golf Swing in 3 Days" next to the latest driver from Ping perhaps.

    Now you need to get volume traffic to your site and there appear to be 2 ways to do this. 1. You optimise the site for search engine visibility. This may well take you back to 1. especially if you're a newbie, where you buy "The Totally Ultimate Top Secret Guide to Search Engine Optimisation" for only 97.77 reduced for today only from 849.77! or 2. You advertise (or both). This means maxing out any financial resourses you may have to drive traffic through your site from various forms of advertising (often mainly Google Adwords) on the basis that your income will exceed your expenses. This can otherwise be described as gambling.

    Have I basically covered here what internet marketing is?

    Malcolm
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    • Profile picture of the author mr2monster
      Originally Posted by shopperama View Post

      After months of hard work and research I'd like to check you with folks if I understand and have boiled down what all the hype basically says.

      I think there are three basic models for individuals to make (or try to make) money online. 1. Selling ways to make money online on commission. 2. Creating an information product of your own to sell though Clickbank (or other) which is very similar to model 1 but you keep (nearly) all of the money. Then you also recruit others to sell for you using method 1. and 3. Promoting tangible products for a commission via the likes of Tradedoubler, Shareasale and others.

      1 and 2. I'm old enough to remember the days before the internet when newspaper ads would hype sell ways to make money from home. Just "buy the book" the ads would say and learn everything you need to know. When you got the book, guess what it said (and often took 200 pages to say), put an ad in a newspaper and sell a book like this telling people how to make money from home by placing newspaper ads and selling a book like this. Around and around it went. So what has changed? Well in my opinion the internet made it easier and cheaper to peddle this kind of "information" so it's now a very crowded place packed with people basically selling the same thing to each other or to hopeful newbies who are oversold and over hyped. They spend their 97.77 to get the same information that is in every other 97.77 package. Basically create another 97.77 package and sell it. You know it works because you bought one!

      3. In this method you promote products that average folks are shopping for online. This may be cameras, golf clubs, insurance, home loans, car accessories or whatever. You need to create a really great site around these products that will somehow intercept online shoppers who will come through your site to the vendor who will then reward you. Your site may also offer information products along with the tangible "How to get a Perfect Golf Swing in 3 Days" next to the latest driver from Ping perhaps.

      Now you need to get volume traffic to your site and there appear to be 2 ways to do this. 1. You optimise the site for search engine visibility. This may well take you back to 1. especially if you're a newbie, where you buy "The Totally Ultimate Top Secret Guide to Search Engine Optimisation" for only 97.77 reduced for today only from 849.77! or 2. You advertise (or both). This means maxing out any financial resourses you may have to drive traffic through your site from various forms of advertising (often mainly Google Adwords) on the basis that your income will exceed your expenses. This can otherwise be described as gambling.

      Have I basically covered here what internet marketing is?

      Malcolm

      Not even close.


      Internet Marketing is simply "marketing on the internet"... it's not a business model (despite what people in the WF want to think).

      If you want to make money online, there are an uncountable amount of ways to do it.

      You don't have to peddle make money online books to do it, that just happens to be what you actively see here because you're in a make money online forum.


      Information products exist for a variety of industries. MMO happens to be one of the bigger ones, but there are literally unlimited niches you can sell an info product in.


      To make money online you can:

      • sell physical products - home made, drop shipped, broker, etc.
      • sell information products - the niches are uncountable
      • sell other peoples stuff for commission - aka affiliate marketing
      • sell leads to other people - commonly known as CPA marketing
      • collect donations
      • sell services - design, writing, etc. etc. etc.
      • provide entertainment - musicians, online tv shows, etc. (a variety of ways to make money there)
      • sell ad space - develop an audience and you can sell ads.
      • broker traffic
      • combination of any of the above
      • etc. etc. etc.


      There are LOTS of ways to make money online.
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by shopperama View Post


      1. Selling ways to make money online on commission.
      2. Creating an information product of your own to sell though Clickbank (or other) which is very similar to model 1 but you keep (nearly) all of the money. Then you also recruit others to sell for you using method 1. and
      3. Promoting tangible products for a commission via the likes of Tradedoubler, Shareasale and others.


      Have I basically covered here what internet marketing is?

      Malcolm
      No -sorry.

      Internet marketing is just a communications channel and not something as simple as labeling 3 strategies.

      For example - I've created membership websites where a partner created regular content for it and promoted it by word of mouth only.

      I'm currently working on a project with a partner where people pay monthly to access a newsletter - promotion is by radio appearances and seminars.

      Internet marketing is.......... whatever you make it.

      The worst thing you can do is try and shoe-horn labels on to it. There are so many possible ways to make money online it's crazy.

      You can just buy type in traffic keyword domains and park them and make money.

      You can make videos and post them on Youtube and make money as Youtube shows ads on them.

      You can create Squidoo Lenses and include their revenue sharing ads.

      The ways are limitless.

      Andy
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  • Profile picture of the author buslead
    It is interesting to me that in all the discussion of the ills or otherwise of IM, there is little mention of the actual delivery/content that is sent through.

    As with offline marketing, IM isn't an end in itself, if you develop a brand, sell a promise, it will have very little longevity if the brand experience doesn't deliver the promise

    So it is no good seeing IM as an end in itself, it is part of a business, that offers a product/service that meets someone else's need provides them with a benefit. IM is then an online method of making the target market aware that the benefit/solution exists and encouraging them to take it.

    Without these contexts other components, IM is selling the wind, but we have to be grown up enough to know that all marketing is like this, and makes sure our own business isn't based upon hot air, even if others are
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  • Profile picture of the author forfun_cash
    Too bad warrior forum do not allow you to post anyone's name. It's very hard to expose these 'gurus'..
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  • Profile picture of the author SmallFry
    I cannot even begin to tell you how much I love this post!I am also on various lists, & there are quite a few that I'm about to unsubscribe to...I have absolutely no problem with people promoting things, of course, but I'm getting so sick of the hyped-up, make 10 billion dollars a day & a Corvette emails multiple times a say, & nothing of any real value.

    If you're going to promote something to me, then I suggest that

    A) You make it realistic.

    &

    B) You actually use my email address to send actual content here & there...something of value.Don't just send me 10 emails a day basically saying 'Here: Buy something from me!' I'm on Travis Sago's mailing list, & any promotion he would make, I would take seriously.Why?Because he sends the most valuable emails ever!He does it every day.I actually look forward to his emails.

    He is a shining example of what an email marketer should be.
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  • Profile picture of the author yours2u
    Right on sister!
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    How many IM's to change a light bulb?
    Add your answer - this must be solved!
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  • Profile picture of the author Cardsearch
    I also have unsubscribed a lot lately and have requested 2 refunds. What irritates me is if a guru thinks his program is all its cracked up to be and makes real money, why the necessity of promoting other programs? In my mind it diminishes his credibility. A guru that I admired and have purchased from (good system) emailed me 2 or 3 times a day about other programs. Ridiculous.
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    You know, there are secrets and there are secrets

    The recipe for making an atomic bomb had been well publicized for years and yet to date, only several countries have actually made one. Similarly, how Microsoft and Google started are well known and yet there are still no credidle competitors.

    The truth is that often huge teamwork and resources are involved. One term that gurus like to use quite is "If I can do it tha you can do it". This is completely misleading as they often have a big team behind them.

    This brings to another often heard saying "there are really no secrets"

    I actually disagree with this because there are real secrets. For example, with PPC, nobody will give you the exact campaign that is currently profitable for them. This is what you will have to do by trial and error. It may well turn out that less than 1% of your campaigns will be successful.

    Derek
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  • Profile picture of the author BryanC
    It's important to realize that something that is garbage to a seasoned vet may be invaluable information to a newcomer. You don't come out of the womb knowing how to install Wordpress, research keywords, start a blog, split test a campaign, ect... unless you are Allen Says. Also, when you first get interested in internet marketing, there are no signs that read "Start Here".

    They just have to jump in and start with something, endure the information overload and analysis paralysis and find their way. A 17 dollar WSO that tells them how to do keyword research may be the best purchase they've ever made.

    The truth does remain that the best purchase you can make is a War Room membership but, unfortunately, sometimes it takes people a little while to figure that out.
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    • Profile picture of the author ShaneRQR
      Originally Posted by BryanC View Post

      It's important to realize that something that is garbage to a seasoned vet may be invaluable information to a newcomer. You don't come out of the womb knowing how to install Wordpress, research keywords, start a blog, split test a campaign, ect... unless you are Allen Says. Also, when you first get interested in internet marketing, there are no signs that read "Start Here".

      They just have to jump in and start with something, endure the information overload and analysis paralysis and find their way. A 17 dollar WSO that tells them how to do keyword research may be the best purchase they've ever made.

      The truth does remain that the best purchase you can make is a War Room membership but, unfortunately, sometimes it takes people a little while to figure that out.
      I agree in principle. I think the problem is that the guide to installing WordPress and picking a niche is being sold as the ultimate underground secret to instant riches that the guru's don't want you to know about...

      There's a huge disconnect between sales-pages and products, as far as I can tell. In all fairness, I don't buy any of these products, but I get mails from my subscribers and I see the feedback in review threads.

      Too often the sales-page talks about a big, amazing, new secret tactic but the product itself barely covers basics. The sales-copy has nothing to do with the product. It's there to generate sales, whatever it takes. And the product is just filler, so that people feel like they got something in return for their money.


      Originally Posted by jazbo View Post

      The problem is people want to believe that nonsense.
      That pretty much sums it up.
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