Quality, Value, and Generally "Doin' it Right!"

12 years ago

That's good to hear. I would definitely say that building a quality website with value is key. Also, providing a friendship with your visitors is something not to be forgotten either.

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buslead

12 years ago

On the whole I don't think this is an either/or situation as you seem to suggest, but rather a both/and.

There are certainly many false promises that suggest IM/SEO step by step shortcuts are the answer to life, the universe and an awesome bank balance, without the blindest notice taken of what the eventual content is, but great content, that cannot be found might be interesting to the participant as an emotionally satisfying exercise but neither will this yield a financial reward either.

To optimise your financial yield for time invested will take a balance of the SEO/IM methods to generate traffic and valid real life content to generate an ongoing interest once the site has been found.

In this regard, IM is no different from the requirements offline, there it is no use building a brand with its promise, if the brand experience then fails to deliver.

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JoshuaG

12 years ago

Originally Posted by buslead

On the whole I don't think this is an either/or situation as you seem to suggest, but rather a both/and.

There are certainly many false promises that suggest IM/SEO step by step shortcuts are the answer to life, the universe and an awesome bank balance, without the blindest notice taken of what the eventual content is, but great content, that cannot be found might be interesting to the participant as an emotionally satisfying exercise but neither will this yield a financial reward either.

To optimise your financial yield for time invested will take a balance of the SEO/IM methods to generate traffic and valid real life content to generate an ongoing interest once the site has been found.

In this regard, IM is no different from the requirements offline, there it is no use building a brand with its promise, if the brand experience then fails to deliver.

Yes, I completely agree that a site can be good as gold but if people never find it its worthless.

My point though is that by providing quality, the hard SEO legwork and upkeep can "take care of itself".

Why?

Because people want to share high quality sites and services with other people.

You get high ratings on digg, you get slashdotted, you get referenced by truly popular blogs in your niche.

That doesn't happen to crappy MFA sites, and it doesn't happen to sites like cookie cutter product review blogs.

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bgmacaw

12 years ago

Originally Posted by JoshuaG

That doesn't happen to crappy MFA sites, and it doesn't happen to sites like cookie cutter product review blogs.

If you mean a bunch of useless bandwidth consuming social referral traffic, no you probably won't get that from a niche blog.

However, if you do things right, you will find your niche sites being used as references by other sites. For example, I have multiple niche sites that have a reference link in Wikipedia, several that have been linked to from major news sites and from various university pages, all unsolicited.

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paulgl

12 years ago

Originally Posted by bgmacaw

However, if you do things right, you will find your niche sites being used as references by other sites. For example, I have multiple niche sites that have a reference link in Wikipedia, several that have been linked to from major news sites and from various university pages, all unsolicited.

Ya know, people, that's the way google actually tells you to do it?

Paul

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Lisa Gergets

12 years ago

Originally Posted by JoshuaG

After spending the past 18 months trying to rank about 30 MFA (made for adsense) sites #1 in Google's index I got fed up.

The process was boring, tedious, not as "autopilot" as they say, and for the amount of effort...extremely unprofitable.

I realized all this would never make me the income I wanted and quickly learned that SEO is a PAIN IN THE ASS.

I came to the conclusion that the EASIEST way to win Googles heart and rank #1 would be to create a high quality site that people would love.

I also realized there were more profitable business models that would take the same amount (or maybe even less!) effort.

Keeping these two things in mind I've created this site:

Gamezlist.com

I wanted to use this post, and my site, as an opportunity to express my belief that making money online requires ALOT more than following a "step-by-step blueprint" or doing a half assed job.

I believe that (among other things) it takes creative thinking, a commitment to quality, and a strong desire to provide value.

The experience I've had creating this site has been far more rewarding then any IM "methods" I've tried over the years.

If you feel that maybe your current efforts are half hearted or don't provide the level of quality you believe is needed to succeed, I would encourage you to re-evaluate your approach.

Start down the path you believe will lead to your success and never look back!

It was the greatest decision I ever made.

Good for you! Stick to your commitment to quality, and you're bound for success, no doubt about it.

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thebitbotdotcom

12 years ago

Awesome post!

Allow me to voice the final point. Relevancy is everything. PR is worthless.

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eflo

12 years ago

nice site - great little service allowing people to sell their games online for free. I've noticed lately that there's a trend towards selling books and games online seeing as there's tons of used book stores, and video game stores are really ramping up their purchasing and re-selling of used games.

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bgmacaw

12 years ago

Originally Posted by JoshuaG

After spending the past 18 months trying to rank about 30 MFA (made for adsense) sites #1 in Google's index I got fed up.

The process was boring, tedious, not as "autopilot" as they say, and for the amount of effort...extremely unprofitable.

It sounds like you were doing something wrong along the way

Originally Posted by JoshuaG

I came to the conclusion that the EASIEST way to win Googles heart

I hate to break it to you but Google doesn't have a heart.

Originally Posted by JoshuaG

doing a half assed job.

I think we located the problem. Were you doing a half-assed job on your 30 sites?

Originally Posted by JoshuaG

I would encourage you to re-evaluate your approach.

I agree, I would like to have more niche competitors follow your lead, give up and remove themselves from the market.

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JoshuaG

12 years ago

It sounds like you were doing something wrong along the way

I wasn't doing anything wrong, I simply didn't enjoy building them or the process of of site SEO. Also, it should be noted that a great deal of this time was spent learning the ropes. I only got started in IM 18 months ago.

I hate to break it to you but Google doesn't have a heart.

I'd hate to break it to you but I wasn't being literal.

I think we located the problem. Were you doing a half-assed job on your 30 sites?

At times, because like I said, I found it tedious and boring...kinda took the motivation out of me. But the times when I did put in the effort my results were minimal.

I agree, I would like to have more niche competitors follow your lead, give up and remove themselves from the market.

I'm glad you like what you do.

If you mean a bunch of useless bandwidth consuming social referral traffic, no you probably won't get that from a niche blog.

However, if you do things right, you will find your niche sites being used as references by other sites. For example, I have multiple niche sites that have a reference link in Wikipedia, several that have been linked to from major news sites and from various university pages, all unsolicited.

Then they aren't the kinds of sites I'm talking about. Nor are they the kind that are being widely promoted in the IM world.

There is a big difference between a high quality, useful, information rich, well aged site and a thin 10 page site about grills made with the intention to look as ugly as sin to encourage clicks.

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bgmacaw

12 years ago

Originally Posted by JoshuaG

I wasn't doing anything wrong

I don't know what system you were using but I strongly suspect there was a flaw in it, even if you didn't realize it and were doing it correctly to the best of your knowledge.

Originally Posted by JoshuaG

I'd hate to break it to you but I wasn't being literal.

Sorry if you weren't but far too many people around here practice voodoo SEO, Cargo Cult SEO or just plain wishful thinking SEO. You would think that they're trying to please a primitive god or something.

Originally Posted by JoshuaG

At times, because like I said, I found it tedious and boring...

Yep, work is like that sometimes. It isn't always fun and games or even all that interesting. However, I'd a lot rather build content or links to my sites than write corporate accounting report web apps, if you want to talk tedious and boring.

Originally Posted by JoshuaG

There is a big difference between a high quality, useful, information rich, well aged site and a thin 10 page site about grills made with the intention to look as ugly as sin to encourage clicks.

Well, here's the thing, you have sites like thefind.com and nextag.com which are basically scrapper sites that do quite well with very thin actual content. Likewise, some very high quality sites languish because nobody finds them because they aren't well promoted for one reason or another.

Don't get lulled into the "quality content, build it and they will come" process because you'll find yourself disappointed unless you're really exceptional. Sure, you want to have good content but do understand that you're going to have to find ways to promote it and, unfortunately, the most effective methods to get buying traffic are going to be SEO (tedious and boring) or PPC (costly and risky) in most niches.

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Landis

12 years ago

in my experience, seo is reletively easy once you figure out a system that works. I would imagine after 18 months of constant seo work on 30 sites all of them should have great ranking for your targetting keywords. its too bad that you found seo to be boring, but i do hope your new venture works out better! I took a look at your site and I found it awesome! Goodluck man!

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pd5009

12 years ago

Originally Posted by carpetmuncher

in my experience, seo is reletively easy once you figure out a system that works.

I Agree, I thought of SEO of being a very complicated thing, but I learned about it in very short period of time. Its easy when you figure out how the system works.

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JoshuaG

12 years ago

Originally Posted by pd5009

I Agree, I thought of SEO of being a very complicated thing, but I learned about it in very short period of time. Its easy when you figure out how the system works.

I guess its a matter of finding that system that works. I tried a lot of different things, and found that the majority of them didn't work well. Others worked once (for awhile) then never worked again.
Some worked for some sites but not for others....etc.

I really disagree with the statement that SEO is easy. I think its easy in theory, but in practice its a lot of work and a lot of speculation...also of course its EASIER to rank for unpopular keywords but I don't think that means SEO is easy.

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JoshuaG

12 years ago

I don't know what system you were using but I strongly suspect there was a flaw in it, even if you didn't realize it and were doing it correctly to the best of your knowledge.

I think this is just a matter of misunderstanding. I know people have success building MFA sites and ranking them. I had SOME success myself. However my experience lead me to the conclusion that there were more efficient and interesting business models. Also I was trying to point out that SEO ranking gains are harder to achieve then people are often led to suspect.

Sorry if you weren't but far too many people around here practice voodoo SEO, Cargo Cult SEO or just plain wishful thinking SEO. You would think that they're trying to please a primitive god or something.

Ah okay, I see where your coming from.

Yep, work is like that sometimes. It isn't always fun and games or even all that interesting. However, I'd a lot rather build content or links to my sites than write corporate accounting report web apps, if you want to talk tedious and boring.

Yea sure, and If you can be content doing that work then that's awesome. I feel you can also make a choice to pursue something that is more dynamic in nature and have LESS of those experiences. I'm fortunate in that I actually can't think of one time during the course of my current project that i've been bored or found the work I was doing to be tedious.

Well, here's the thing, you have sites like thefind.com and nextag.com which are basically scrapper sites that do quite well with very thin actual content. Likewise, some very high quality sites languish because nobody finds them because they aren't well promoted for one reason or another.

Those sites you mentioned, although thin, provide a service people can benefit from. Can MFA sites benefit people? Yes of course they can. But only when they have quality content. (Which we both agree with). But what I'm getting at is that popular opinion suggests we don't need that. But we do, and I believe it can help IMMENSELY with SEO.

Don't get lulled into the "quality content, build it and they will come" process because you'll find yourself disappointed unless you're really exceptional. Sure, you want to have good content but do understand that you're going to have to find ways to promote it and, unfortunately, the most effective methods to get buying traffic are going to be SEO (tedious and boring) or PPC (costly and risky) in most niches

I agree that unless you are exceptional you won't get noticed or shared or talked about or whatever. But what i'm suggesting is that people do their best to be exceptional and create quality. In doing so, their "SEO" efforts will have to be far less intensive.

Depending on your business model there are lots of other ways to get traffic. I agree that niche MFA sites need SEO to be profitable.

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bgmacaw

12 years ago

Originally Posted by JoshuaG

Also I was trying to point out that SEO ranking gains are harder to achieve then people are often led to suspect.

I think a lot of this goes back to proper keyword selection. People tend to pick keywords that are way too hard to rank well or that simply don't have enough traffic to be worthwhile.

Originally Posted by JoshuaG

Can MFA sites benefit people? Yes of course they can. But only when they have quality content. (Which we both agree with). But what I'm getting at is that popular opinion suggests we don't need that. But we do, and I believe it can help IMMENSELY with SEO.

My primary idea is that 'quality content' can be something that you may not necessarily think of as having quality at first glance. For example, icanhascheezburger.com is a bunch of cat pictures with silly captions and the mega scrapper sites I mentioned just provide product listings but that, amazingly, is quality content since it meets visitor's needs/wants quite well. In other words, avoid getting hung up on having the absolute best prize winning written content but instead have content that guides the visitor in the direction you want them to go, clicking on an ad, signing up for your newsletter, etc., while not being total crap.

Originally Posted by JoshuaG

Depending on your business model there are lots of other ways to get traffic.

Basically I'm talking about niche sites and buying traffic and I haven't seen anything other than SEO or PPC (or other similar paid traffic methods) work effectively for them.

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JoshuaG

12 years ago

I think a lot of this goes back to proper keyword selection. People tend to pick keywords that are way too hard to rank well or that simply don't have enough traffic to be worthwhile.

Yea, those are definitely both big problems.
I found that even with solid research including both using tools and manuel review some keywords that should be easy in theory still arent easy for reasons unknown.

My primary idea is that 'quality content' can be something that you may not necessarily think of as having quality at first glance. For example, icanhascheezburger.com is a bunch of cat pictures with silly captions and the mega scrapper sites I mentioned just provide product listings but that, amazingly, is quality content since it meets visitor's needs/wants quite well. In other words, avoid getting hung up on having the absolute best prize winning written content but instead have content that guides the visitor in the direction you want them to go, clicking on an ad, signing up for your newsletter, etc., while not being total crap.

Yea, I pretty much agree with all of this.

Basically I'm talking about niche sites and buying traffic and I haven't seen anything other than SEO or PPC (or other similar paid traffic methods) work effectively for them.

That was my experience as well. I was unable to generate traffic from web 2.0 sites linking to my niche sites, and little from articles. Social media traffic was impossible because the topic matter was uninteresting for most of my product related sites.

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Quality, Value, and Generally "Doin' it Right!"

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