The cost of running Warrior Special Offers now $40. Your thoughts?

by Maddi
523 replies
I don't know if many of you noticed but the cost of running a Warrior Special Offer is now increased to $40 than $20.

I have mixed thoughts on it, but I'm not technically against it.

I think as a community, I'd like to have your views on it.

What do you think of this change? and will it serve the purpose?

Your thoughts?

Maddi Murtaza

Edit: Just checked, the cost of bumping old wso's has increased to $40 too.

Edit:
First time on this thread? I encourage you to read all the replies. Some of the brightest and most successful warriors/marketers have commented with some great tips, advice and point of views on how to look at these changes. Might give you a new perspective on how you approach the WSO section.
#$40 #offers #special #thoughts #warrior
  • Profile picture of the author Owen Smith
    It would have been a little more diginified if he warned members who contribute greatly to this forum and pay the fees of the WSO (which pays the bills)

    And a twofold rise is a little wierd, in my eyes a good move, but badly implemented.
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    • Profile picture of the author admin
      Administrator
      Originally Posted by Owen Smith View Post

      It would have been a little more diginified if he warned members who contribute greatly to this forum and pay the fees of the WSO (which pays the bills)

      And a twofold rise is a little wierd, in my eyes a good move, but badly implemented.

      I'm sorry a technical flaw destroyed my dignity Owen but I did put a large notice at the top of the WSO forum about it. I left for a couple hours and just returned realizing I'm the only one that saw the notice, members couldn't see it.

      No need for it now I suppose.
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      • Profile picture of the author Maddi
        Originally Posted by admin View Post

        I'm sorry a technical flaw destroyed my dignity
        Priceless

        Ah well, like many thought, that wouldn't have been a wise move after all. But no need for it now like you said.

        Maddi
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        • Profile picture of the author Ken Strong
          Any speculation on Allen's income from the WSO section is none of our business, and should be irrelevant to this discussion and how we run our businesses.

          A few people seem to think they get to judge whether he's making "too much" money from his own forum or not, or whether he will lose money with the change. I'm sure he's doing just fine either way and can take care of himself, he's a big boy.
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          • Profile picture of the author jkmg
            Originally Posted by KenStrong View Post

            Any speculation on Allen's income from the WSO section is none of our business, and should be irrelevant to this discussion and how we run our businesses.

            A few people seem to think they get to judge whether he's making "too much" money from his own forum or not, or whether he will lose money with the change. I'm sure he's doing just fine either way and can take care of himself, he's a big boy.
            This is right on the money! Nice post! I have never seen his integrity challenged anywhere, and how he runs HIS business is irrespective of how we run ours!

            John
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            • Profile picture of the author thriftgirl62
              If you Like the MBO System, then Scream...put your hands in the air and Scream ALLEN SAYS, go ALLEN Chant, Scream, Rock ALLEN SAYS Louder

              MBO = Management By Objective


              Quality WSO'S will naturally rise to the top through honest reviews from purchasers because there will be no bumps sold until at least 36 people have purchased a copy. The final price cannot be increased more than double the early bird special price (if any) for the first 36 sales.

              No more than (4) half-price review copies with a 3-day money back guarantee are allowed for each WSO. Unbiased reviews from Qualified 5-year Warriors in good standing are appreciated for the benefit of everyone without expecting any freebies or brown-nosing from Sellers.

              There will be more than enough natural bumps from purchasers only too happy to share their good fortune. If they choose not to share, then it would appear they have nothing nice to say. Every WSO must have at least (4) reviews tagged to show which ones were for half-price copies of the product.
              • All WSO's require the $40 payment
              • No Bumps before 36 Sales

                Bumps Sold as follows:

              • (5) non-restricted bumps for $100
              • (4) Semi-Restricted Bumps for $100
              • (3) Restricted Bumps for $100
              • (2) Restricted Bumps for $100
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              • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
                Originally Posted by thriftgirl62 View Post

                [*] No Bumps before 36 Sales
                Lol, there are several issues - but I'll address this one. What if I'm releasing a very expensive new coaching program limited to 10 buyers from this forum? My offer is usually $200 but I'm letting in 10 people from the WF for $100. I get half my quota and need to bump. How do I get to 36 sales? How do I prove I have 36 sales? Do I send you a screen shot of my paypal (which I can easily doctor btw)?

                Doesn't even have to be coaching. Could be a script or what ever. I'm looking for some people to test out what I have and to offer a deal to the community here.

                Why would I offer a half price review copy when I've already cut my price?

                Why does someone with 5 years here know any more than someone who just joined last week?

                Who decides who is on the special list of those to be trusted? Do those people want to test all this crap out to begin with? Don't they have better things to do? Why would they donate all this time? Are they going to get paid to take on assignments? What do we have to pay them? Will this increase the price of the WSO's even more?

                Way too many issues...
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                • Profile picture of the author David Neale
                  Originally Posted by avenuegirl View Post

                  Lol, there are several issues - but I'll address this one. What if I'm releasing a very expensive new coaching program limited to 10 buyers from this forum? My offer is usually $200 but I'm letting in 10 people from the WF for $100. I get half my quota and need to bump. How do I get to 36 sales? How do I prove I have 36 sales?
                  I think this is an important point that has not received any attention. 36 sales encourages lower priced and presumably lower quality WSO offers.

                  I would be happy to pay much bigger dollars to proven WF marketers who may decide to offer a WSO.

                  Say a Dave Ward or a Red Cortez had a $1000 service/product but was willing to help out some Warriors for say $700. This would most likely not sell 36 times, in fact it probably couldn't.

                  I for one would like to see much higher quality offering with a correspondingly higher price tag but that 36 sales limit penalizes these offers.

                  Perhaps the mods could have the power to make exceptions for obvious "quality" offers?

                  So David and Red where's our discount
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                  David Neale

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      • Profile picture of the author Elmer Hurlstone
        Originally Posted by admin View Post

        I'm sorry a technical flaw destroyed my dignity Owen but I did put a large notice at the top of the WSO forum about it. I left for a couple hours and just returned realizing I'm the only one that saw the notice, members couldn't see it.

        No need for it now I suppose.
        Allen, as difficult to believe as it may be, I suspect there are some people who post WSO's who don't read every thread, every day, on the main forum.

        Now, while I might take perverse pleasure in the surprised look on a "drive-by" WSO seller's face the first time they go to load up the crapola of the day, there are some highly reputable, respected marketers who may not be aware of the price increase untill the actual point of impact.

        Once you've solved the tech glitch It might be nice to see the increase notice at the top of the WSO board.

        Who knows, someone may actually read it...

        Elmer
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      • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
        Alan! Stop running your business like me! I changed my TOS and queued it up an Aweber, thought I sent it but did not, hence only I knew about it! hehe.

        Some of the people crying about not getting a notification need to understand that Alan is under no obligation to do so. Yeah it might be a nice thing to do, but had his noticed worked I suspect that many new wso would magically appear.

        I don't send a mail to my users every time I am going to do an update on my server for the simple reason it would cause unneeded support questions and the update would be over by the time many users logged in to use the system. As a result I get 1 or 2 support tickets instead of 50.

        So Alan its good that your notification did not work in my opinion. hehe

        Originally Posted by admin View Post

        I'm sorry a technical flaw destroyed my dignity Owen but I did put a large notice at the top of the WSO forum about it. I left for a couple hours and just returned realizing I'm the only one that saw the notice, members couldn't see it.

        No need for it now I suppose.
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    Well, time would tell, The problem with that section use
    to be blamed on the cost--it was free, and adding a
    price was to fix the problems and I guess it didn't.

    Then they tried requiring a War Room membership
    and that didn't work.

    Maybe $40 is the magic number.

    We are in the testing phase.

    -Ray Edwards
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    • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
      I agree with Owen and Ray.

      Most businesses raise prices, but they usually give warning.

      And I agree with Ray, it's a test to weed out the garbage, but so far, the other methods of weeding it haven't worked.

      -Dani
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    • Profile picture of the author skibbz
      Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

      Well, time would tell, The problem with that section use
      to be blamed on the cost--it was free, and adding a
      price was to fix the problems and I guess it didn't.

      Then they tried requiring a War Room membership
      and that didn't work.

      Maybe $40 is the magic number.

      We are in the testing phase.

      -Ray Edwards
      $40 is a 100% increase on the price..this is gonna hit some warriors offguard. Remember we are still in a recession
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  • Profile picture of the author cashcow
    Yeah, I just listed some websites for sale and found the same thing.

    I'm not sure how I feel about it.

    Of course it hurts to pay an extra $20 but potentially it could gain you more money if your offer stays on page 1 for longer (not so much in the websites for sale section as that doesn't move so fast as the WSO section)

    I guess time will tell!

    Lee
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  • Profile picture of the author BryanC
    It's awesome in the sense that its goal is to eliminate many of the low quality money-grab WSOs that the section has become diluted with. The intention is admirable but I'm not sure how effective it will be. It seems to me that it will still be very rare that a WSO poster will ever end in the red. I'd like to actually see it raised even more.
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    • Profile picture of the author David Neale
      I like it. Keep raising the price until the crap gets cleaned out and we are left with genuine value WSOs.
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      • Profile picture of the author la dominatrix
        Originally Posted by David Neale View Post

        I like it. Keep raising the price until the crap gets cleaned out and we are left with genuine value WSOs.
        Cant help feeling that I tend to concur with David although on the face of it a double increase is a whopper. However there are soem awful WSO's out there these days and if it get rid f the rehashed **** that keeps occuring then I am happy.

        La dominatrix
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      • Profile picture of the author Joe118
        Originally Posted by David Neale View Post

        I like it. Keep raising the price until the crap gets cleaned out and we are left with genuine value WSOs.
        And then lower it again? Because presumably the motive is so completely altruistic...
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Okay, I thought it was just to bump a WSO. So it's the new cost all the
      way around.

      Got it.

      Yes, would be nice if it was pointed out somewhere in the WSO rules about
      making payment.

      Personally, I don't care what Allen charges. If you use the WSO forum
      correctly, you should make that back in about 5 minutes.

      But then again, there are those who are lucky if they can make their $20
      back because, quite honestly, they don't have a clue how to run a WSO.

      But that's another issue altogether.

      Anyway, carry on.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Okay, here is my take on WSO costs versus weeding out the "so called
        garbage."

        Mind you, this is ONLY my opinion.

        The con artists, the ones with the shady "too good to be true" offers, know
        that they're going to get people to bite on them. So they're not going to
        care. You could make the WSO cost $100 and it won't stop them.

        They know what sells.

        The poor guy who is NOT an Internet marketer but somebody who has a
        modest graphic design or article writing service, just looking to build a name
        for himself, who offers good quality but doesn't have a name yet, is going
        to struggle. He's not going to make a lot of sales and the increase in price
        is going to hurt him.

        Those in the middle, the honest marketers who know their stuff, even
        if they don't juice up their claims, will do well enough that the increase
        won't hurt too much UNLESS they need to bump their WSO a few times to
        achieve the number of sales they're looking for.

        But the point is, as a deterrent to shoddy WSOs...as I said, those who
        know what people want and will promise the moon and deliver squat,
        won't care.

        Make the WSO $100 a shot and they'll still make their thousands.

        Money has never been a deterrent to thieves, con men and hustlers.

        Only to honest hard working people.

        At least that's my opinion...for all that it's worth.
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        • Profile picture of the author Maddi
          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

          Okay, here is my take on WSO costs versus weeding out the "so called
          garbage."

          Mind you, this is ONLY my opinion.

          The con artists, the ones with the shady "too good to be true" offers, know
          that they're going to get people to bite on them. So they're not going to
          care. You could make the WSO cost $100 and it won't stop them.

          They know what sells.

          The poor guy who is NOT an Internet marketer but somebody who has a
          modest graphic design or article writing service, just looking to build a name
          for himself, who offers good quality but doesn't have a name yet, is going
          to struggle. He's not going to make a lot of sales and the increase in price
          is going to hurt him.

          Those in the middle, the honest marketers who know their stuff, even
          if they don't juice up their claims, will do well enough that the increase
          won't hurt too much UNLESS they need to bump their WSO a few times to
          achieve the number of sales they're looking for.

          But the point is, as a deterrent to shoddy WSOs...as I said, those who
          know what people want and will promise the moon and deliver squat,
          won't care.

          Make the WSO $100 a shot and they'll still make their thousands.

          Money has never been a deterrent to thieves, con men and hustlers.

          Only to honest hard working people.

          At least that's my opinion...for all that it's worth.
          Exactly my thoughts, or at least most of them

          I agree with Steven on this one, the whole point is weeding out and enhancing the integrity and the quality of the products in the WSO forum, I don't think the con artists/scammers or Make $23498.32 by tomorrow people will be affected.

          But like Ray said above, only time will tell. Lets see how things turn out and hope it gets the desired results.

          But on a different note, I do feel for people who'll have trouble coughing up $40 to run a wso as we all know $40 can be a significant amount in some cases, plus if they are first timers, they'll have trouble justifying the cost as the general feel of things requires few replies, reviews and views to get the sales rolling there - meaning another bump or two before they see some results. These people will definitely be affected.

          My 0.2 c
          Maddi
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        • Profile picture of the author LegitIncomes
          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

          Okay, here is my take on WSO costs versus weeding out the "so called
          garbage."

          Mind you, this is ONLY my opinion.

          The con artists, the ones with the shady "too good to be true" offers, know
          that they're going to get people to bite on them. So they're not going to
          care. You could make the WSO cost $100 and it won't stop them.

          They know what sells.

          The poor guy who is NOT an Internet marketer but somebody who has a
          modest graphic design or article writing service, just looking to build a name
          for himself, who offers good quality but doesn't have a name yet, is going
          to struggle. He's not going to make a lot of sales and the increase in price
          is going to hurt him.

          Those in the middle, the honest marketers who know their stuff, even
          if they don't juice up their claims, will do well enough that the increase
          won't hurt too much UNLESS they need to bump their WSO a few times to
          achieve the number of sales they're looking for.

          But the point is, as a deterrent to shoddy WSOs...as I said, those who
          know what people want and will promise the moon and deliver squat,
          won't care.

          Make the WSO $100 a shot and they'll still make their thousands.

          Money has never been a deterrent to thieves, con men and hustlers.

          Only to honest hard working people.

          At least that's my opinion...for all that it's worth.
          I agree. I believe the price increase to $40 will do nothing to slow down the speed of WSOs (thus increasing the value), or remove the junk offers. Just as the $37 War Room fee did nothing.

          But I could be wrong.....I really hope I am.
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        • Profile picture of the author Joe118
          I did two things today, one more surprising than the next

          1. I agreed with Steven... every word here is right on
          2. I actually thanked Steven

          The end of the world as we know it must be coming...

          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

          Okay, here is my take on WSO costs versus weeding out the "so called
          garbage."

          Mind you, this is ONLY my opinion.

          The con artists, the ones with the shady "too good to be true" offers, know
          that they're going to get people to bite on them. So they're not going to
          care. You could make the WSO cost $100 and it won't stop them.

          They know what sells.

          The poor guy who is NOT an Internet marketer but somebody who has a
          modest graphic design or article writing service, just looking to build a name
          for himself, who offers good quality but doesn't have a name yet, is going
          to struggle. He's not going to make a lot of sales and the increase in price
          is going to hurt him.

          Those in the middle, the honest marketers who know their stuff, even
          if they don't juice up their claims, will do well enough that the increase
          won't hurt too much UNLESS they need to bump their WSO a few times to
          achieve the number of sales they're looking for.

          But the point is, as a deterrent to shoddy WSOs...as I said, those who
          know what people want and will promise the moon and deliver squat,
          won't care.

          Make the WSO $100 a shot and they'll still make their thousands.

          Money has never been a deterrent to thieves, con men and hustlers.

          Only to honest hard working people.

          At least that's my opinion...for all that it's worth.
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        • Profile picture of the author Hank Scott
          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post


          ...the point is, as a deterrent to shoddy WSOs...as I said, those who know what people want and will promise the moon and deliver squat, won't care.

          Make the WSO $100 a shot and they'll still make their thousands.

          Money has never been a deterrent to thieves, con men and hustlers.

          Only to honest hard working people.

          At least that's my opinion...for all that it's worth.
          Take the poor guy who, with no prior experience with WSOs paid for War Room status and then posted his first WSO just before the unannounced increase...

          Then was shocked to see how quickly it fell off the third page.

          Who just paid for a service to learn the best days and times to post, reworked his offer to reduce the cost, and make it more acceptable...

          And was planning to bump it, with a limited budget to keep a quality offer available.

          A sudden doubling of cost without warning could scuttle such an attempt before it gets anywhere near profitable.

          I agree that the high priced cream, and the worthless scum, will always rise to the top, while most of the good and worthy will get churned in the middle or fall to the bottom.

          To take whatever action is needed to improve things with no advanced notice disrespects all the good and worthy, honest Warriors, who deserve fair warning before they see their costs doubled (a 200% increase, not merely 100%).

          If you had just entered into a business arrangement with someone to provide materials for the house you wish to build, sacrificed and risked the initial investment required, and were then suddenly soon surprised to discover the cost of materials doubled without notice, over what you expected and budgeted, how would you feel about that supplier?

          Regardless the reasons for the increase, advanced notice respects those just starting out, gives them the choice to avoid the trap of starting something they may not be able to finish, without losing their investment.

          In this case, not only is an apology in order, but perhaps a few refunds as well?

          After all, honesty and integrity must include all sides, and starts at the top... Which sets the tone and paves the way for others to follow.
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      • Profile picture of the author templarjustice
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Okay, I thought it was just to bump a WSO. So it's the new cost all the
        way around.

        Got it.

        Yes, would be nice if it was pointed out somewhere in the WSO rules about
        making payment.

        Personally, I don't care what Allen charges. If you use the WSO forum
        correctly, you should make that back in about 5 minutes.

        But then again, there are those who are lucky if they can make their $20
        back because, quite honestly, they don't have a clue how to run a WSO.

        But that's another issue altogether.

        Anyway, carry on.
        You don't care? Why not make it $100 for a WSO then?
        Would that not be reasonable?

        I disagree with a 100% jump like that. One thing many of you are missing is what specific niche you are in. Graphic Designers vs. Copywriters, vs. Info Marketers, vs. Service based. Each niche "MAY" push a certain level of WSO products vs. another niche.
        For example: Graphic Designers may have many more WSO product offerings vs. a Service Based Copywriter.

        And I don't know, timing is a big issue - in regards to something new & innovative a Warrior may want to send something out.

        Also, this may be some warriors only outlet as a business model.
        Blanket statements as, "make it back in 5 minutes" is not really accurate, unless that marketer has increased their prices to cover the same rate.....in 5 minutes.
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      • Profile picture of the author pd5009
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Okay, I thought it was just to bump a WSO. So it's the new cost all the
        way around.

        Got it.

        Yes, would be nice if it was pointed out somewhere in the WSO rules about
        making payment.
        ^ ^ Agree!
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Maybe the Owner wants to make a little more money, much like many of you do who run a WSO.
      Is there anything wrong with that ??

      Personally, I think a $100 price would be more fitting for everyone. It would get rid of many of the people who abuse the WSO.

      I vote $100 price for next change. I think that is fair for everyone.
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      Nothing to see here including a Sig so just move on :)

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      • Profile picture of the author skibbz
        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

        Maybe the Owner wants to make a little more money, much like many of you do who run a WSO.
        Is there anything wrong with that ??

        Personally, I think a $100 price would be more fitting for everyone. It would get rid of many of the people who abuse the WSO.

        I vote $100 price for next change.
        Its obvious the owner wants to make more money he also realise that there is a high demand for WSO
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        • Profile picture of the author Glenn Leader
          Originally Posted by skibbz View Post

          Its obvious the owner wants to make more money he also realise that there is a high demand for WSO
          Did you know that the forum owner is a multimillionaire? Allen would probably
          run the WSO section for free if it wasn't for the scam artists and con(wo)men
          who post there. He doesn't need the money from the WSO section at all.

          HTH

          Glenn
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Glenn Leader View Post

            Did you know that the forum owner is a multimillionaire? Allen would probably
            run the WSO section for free if it wasn't for the scam artists and con(wo)men
            who post there. He doesn't need the money from the WSO section at all.

            HTH

            Glenn
            Exactly as I see it. So much emphasis being put on the price of WSOs going up. Looking at it as purely a price increase, it's nothing. Shouldn't even be a topic of conversation for 10 pages.

            But ... over and over and over again, there are threads here bitching about the WSO section. Everybody with their opinions on how it should be run, what changes need to be made and on and on. All the scams, all the shoddy products ... we need to protect everyone from themselves ... so they don't buy that which they are really seeking to start with.

            The people who use the big promise headlines know what the market is looking for and know the headlines to use to get them to buy. It makes not one iota of difference to them that their product won't deliver ... the important thing is capturing that market and bilking it for every dollar they can.

            That's not going to stop. $40 won't deter them. They are the ones that make good money. They can afford it. It's an unpleasant part of Internet Marketing that if there's a hungry market, feed them whether the meal will sustain or not.

            Who is really to blame? I have to say both the buyer and seller. Lazy people wanting fast, easy cash and sellers willing to tell you anything to make you believe that you'll get fast, easy cash.

            I've never really thought that the forum needed to function as a babysitter. I think buyers need to grow up and accept the responsibility for the poor purchasing decisions they make and the forum only needs to weed out the scammers who actually rip people off in one way or another ... and no, not by feeding them a line of BS that anyone with half a brain should be able to see is a line of BS. Ripping off as in not delivering product, delivering software that doesn't work, not honoring refunds, telling customers they are buying a limited product and then selling hundreds more, etc. I've seen all of that here and I've seen those sellers still selling in quite a few cases.

            Having controls like a feedback system or allowing people to trash WSO threads aren't an answer. They just create a whole new problem.

            The answer has to lie with the buyers. Stop buying junk. You are making the market for it. Stop making it profitable.
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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

              Exactly as I see it. So much emphasis being put on the price of WSOs going up. Looking at it as purely a price increase, it's nothing. Shouldn't even be a topic of conversation for 10 pages.

              But ... over and over and over again, there are threads here bitching about the WSO section. Everybody with their opinions on how it should be run, what changes need to be made and on and on. All the scams, all the shoddy products ... we need to protect everyone from themselves ... so they don't buy that which they are really seeking to start with.

              The people who use the big promise headlines know what the market is looking for and know the headlines to use to get them to buy. It makes not one iota of difference to them that their product won't deliver ... the important thing is capturing that market and bilking it for every dollar they can.

              That's not going to stop. $40 won't deter them. They are the ones that make good money. They can afford it. It's an unpleasant part of Internet Marketing that if there's a hungry market, feed them whether the meal will sustain or not.

              Who is really to blame? I have to say both the buyer and seller. Lazy people wanting fast, easy cash and sellers willing to tell you anything to make you believe that you'll get fast, easy cash.

              I've never really thought that the forum needed to function as a babysitter. I think buyers need to grow up and accept the responsibility for the poor purchasing decisions they make and the forum only needs to weed out the scammers who actually rip people off in one way or another ... and no, not by feeding them a line of BS that anyone with half a brain should be able to see is a line of BS. Ripping off as in not delivering product, delivering software that doesn't work, not honoring refunds, telling customers they are buying a limited product and then selling hundreds more, etc. I've seen all of that here and I've seen those sellers still selling in quite a few cases.

              Having controls like a feedback system or allowing people to trash WSO threads aren't an answer. They just create a whole new problem.

              The answer has to lie with the buyers. Stop buying junk. You are making the market for it. Stop making it profitable.

              Suzanne...I could kiss you for this post if you didn't have so many tattoos
              on your body.

              All kidding aside, I agree with you 100%. When did grown adults suddenly
              start acting like kids in a candy store?

              And the problem isn't only in the WSO forum or online for that matter.

              Go look at the lottery lines every Tuesday and Thursday or whatever
              days your state has its mega millions.

              "A dollar and a dream" is one of the slogans for the Mega Millions.

              It's human nature not to want to work for your money. So if somebody
              tells them they don't have to, they're going to buy into it.

              The only thing that's going to fix the WSO forum is when people stop
              acting like people.
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            • Profile picture of the author tpw
              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

              The answer has to lie with the buyers. Stop buying junk. You are making the market for it. Stop making it profitable.

              Wow, personal responsibility... What a novel concept...

              That will never fly either... It requires one to look in the mirror and place the blame directly on the shoulders of the person responsible... But their mirrors are broken...

              You are right though... Until people stop buying garbage, the garbage peddlers will be there forever...

              The problem IS the buyers, and it always has been... Few want to buy anything that might require work... They are looking for the magic, make money while you sleep, work in your underwear, pie in the sky promises solution...

              Buyers don't want to entertain any offer that promises even a modicum of work, and they run from those offers in droves...

              But, pie in the sky? They cannot wait to open their wallets...

              Those folks who tend to make the most money in the WSO Forum are those who have mastered the Make $2 Million By Morning With No Work offer, because people WANT to believe that crap...

              They never stopped to realize that the person making those claims, works his or her proverbial butt off to make money...

              But they think that somehow, they will be able to read the book and do what the seller was unable to do... LOL
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      • Profile picture of the author Matthew Shane Roe
        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

        Maybe the Owner wants to make a little more money, much like many of you do who run a WSO.
        Is there anything wrong with that ??

        Personally, I think a $100 price would be more fitting for everyone. It would get rid of many of the people who abuse the WSO.

        I vote $100 price for next change.
        It's not really the perspective of the owner making more money that may make some people upset.

        What they are getting upset about is the fact that there was no notice given in terms of the price increase.

        As per my 2c, If it work's great, many of the good WSO dealers may actually stand a chance to make some money from this section. However, even if it was the same there is some certain steps the WSO posters could have taken to make sure the listing got seen in the first place.
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        • Profile picture of the author skibbz
          Originally Posted by Skid_Roe View Post

          It's not really the perspective of the owner making more money that may make some people upset.

          What they are getting upset about is the fact that there was no notice given in terms of the price increase.
          I think so too, If it was announced in advance it would not come as such a surprise. remember that some people actually budget for $20
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    • Profile picture of the author oneplusone
      My advice is make your WSO products better!

      If you have a decent sales funnel, the $40 should still be very generous.

      Provide better products, better customer service, and raise the standards of your WSOs in general.

      Then regular buyers of WSOs like myself will buy your second, third and forth products after the initial sale.

      This isn't something to fear, but a challenge to be embraced by all genuine WSO sellers who run REAL businesses.

      If you think about it, a lot of the cheap junk and crappy offers will now probably disappear so you should have less competition than before.

      I don't believe the prices will suddenly increase, regular buyers in the WSO forum like myself already know what sort of prices we expect and are prepared to pay.

      The key now I believe will be to ensure your first product is incredible, so you can sell your second, third and fourth offer to the same people.

      When profits are more in the back end, logic dictates that the quality of the front end products HAS to increase overall.
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  • Profile picture of the author Owen Smith
    BryanC most of the terrible WSO will still pop up, as long as they make anything over the fixed cost of running the WSO a lot of people are happy.

    The increase is not justified I do not believe. Is the bump still $20? Or is that also $40?
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    • Profile picture of the author Lance K
      Originally Posted by Owen Smith View Post

      The increase is not justified I do not believe. Is the bump still $20? Or is that also $40?


      Where else can you put an ad in front of thousands of highly targeted prospects (who are actually looking to purchase)...with images, unlimited words, and a platform to answer individual questions/concerns for $20 (or even $40)?
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      • Profile picture of the author Owen Smith
        Lance I do see your point, but if it was not for the warriors on this forum having an opinion and advertising using the forums services, the forum would not exist. I think on a dignity side, we should have been informed.

        Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

        Where else can you put an ad in front of thousands of highly targeted prospects (who are actually looking to purchase)...with images, unlimited words, and a platform to answer individual questions/concerns for $20 (or even $40)?
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    • Profile picture of the author Ken Strong
      I'm sure the higher price will filter out WSOs and ads by less experienced members who aren't sure whether they'll make their investment back or not at the higher price. I don't know if that's necessarily good or bad, it would depend on the individual offer.

      I can't imagine the higher fee will get rid of the over-hyped borderline scams by the many newer members whose only activity on the forum is to sell their WSOs... they seem to be doing enough business that they won't blink at the extra $20.

      So overall, I don't know if it's going to improve the WSO forum at all... maybe WSOs will stay on the first page a little longer, for what that's worth. But I guess we'll have to wait and see.

      EDIT: Steven's a much faster typer than me. Said pretty much the same thing, but more eloquently.
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  • Profile picture of the author ReachOneMedia
    Well I'm going to be soft with my commend since I can not afford to be banned...

    Increasing the price doesn't bother me but A nice touch would have been to send out an email to everyone just to let us know about it.

    There's people involved not just nickname and bank accounts...

    My 2 cents
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  • Profile picture of the author zapseo
    What's the added value to warrant the price increase?
    WarriorPro included now ???
    (One can only hope...

    Live JoyFully!

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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Holmes
    A heads up would have been nice but on reflection, there clearly would have been a bump rush prior to any changes being made. Nothing major but certainly a "waste" of a bump.

    Hopefully, we find posting there will be relatively price elastic and if it cuts out some of the crap we see there - then I'm all for it.

    If the change cuts the WSO's in half and the price to list is doubled ,then it balances out regardless and any claims it's "all about the money" simply aren't true.

    Besides.. it's $20.. if that's too much for people right now then do something else until it's no longer a problem, put your fingers in a few more pies.
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  • Profile picture of the author MilesT
    I think we're going to see more expensive crap. So, yeah. Good decision.
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  • Profile picture of the author GameVoid
    I think it might cause WSO to be used exclusively by the old timers selling rehashed material that they know will generate enough sales to cover the new fee.

    The newbies who are getting their feet wet and anyone who has a genuinely new product that they just can't charge $297 for out of the gate will be discouraged by the new price.

    But you have to spend money to make money as they say. The new WSO price will still be plenty reasonable for people with established products.
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  • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
    I'm not sure this will do anything beyond raise prices. Instead of $7 for crap, it'll be $14. LOL

    But something had to be done, so might as well test this option. The problem is, the problem will be worse 10-fold if he ever lowers it back. So we're likely stuck with at least this new price. $20 is gone forever, imho. If it works, I won't complain at all.

    John
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  • Profile picture of the author jazbo
    It will help Allen recoup the cash he is evidently down on since knocking out all the link services etc that were 25% or more of the listed WSO's.

    Lets hope his plan to get the cash back does not back fire.
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    • Profile picture of the author jan roos
      I think product owners will just have to raise their prices in order to compensate for the higher fee. However I think it's still a bargain at $40


      Cheers
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    • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
      Well, from a practical standpoint if Allen had given an advanced warning, say a weeks time, that the price for WSOs would be raised there would have been a flood of new WSOs posted at the $20 fee knowing that a link in your sig to your WSO can remain indefinitely.

      What do you think that would have done regarding the situation?

      You can't please everybody, and there are ramifications involved with every new wrinkle to the WSO forum.

      Bottom line...it's done...get back to work.

      ~Bill
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    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
      Originally Posted by jazbo View Post

      It will help Allen recoup the cash he is evidently down on since knocking out all the link services etc that were 25% or more of the listed WSO's.

      Lets hope his plan to get the cash back does not back fire.
      Allen is responding to all the bitching about the WSO section, not trying to recoup these imaginary losses you attribute to him. If that was the case, the forum would have slowed down once those offers were stopped and they did not. At least complain about the price increase with a logical reason and not one that is complete BS.

      Tina
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    • Profile picture of the author admin
      Administrator
      Originally Posted by jazbo View Post

      It will help Allen recoup the cash he is evidently down on since knocking out all the link services etc that were 25% or more of the listed WSO's.

      Lets hope his plan to get the cash back does not back fire.

      Right after that change the income from the WSO section dropped about $20,000. A month later it was right back to where it was, replaced by stuff that was worse for the most part.

      If you care to know the real goal I have I'll tell you. I 'hope' the number of new WSO's posted are cut exactly in half. Thinning the place out so offers stay on the first page longer and I don't have to create multiple subsections. That is the goal.
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      • Profile picture of the author Matt Morgan
        To summarize, to marketers who are complaining about this:

        You need many different sources of income Rather than JUST relying on WSO's. Spread your income sources to many other variety of methods, and Don’t just rely on WSOs. What if he increases the price again to higher? than you are doomed!


        Google can change its SEO algorithms without giving emails out to every webmaster out there, I guess the warrior forum can too,

        but seriously develop other alternative sources of income.

        P.S. - This thread is going to last for many days! (Watch this space)

        Matt Morgan.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Originally Posted by admin View Post

        Right after that change the income from the WSO section dropped about $20,000. A month later it was right back to where it was, relaced by stuff that was worse for the most part.

        If you care to know the real goal I have I'll tell you. I 'hope' the number of new WSO's posted are cut exactly in half. Thinning the place out so offers stay on the first page longer and I don't have to create multiple subsections. That is the goal.
        Game, set, match.

        We can now put this puppy to bed folks.

        The man has spoken.

        Thank you Allen. Makes perfect sense to me.
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      • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
        I do hope that this slows down how fast offers fall off the front page. I bumped my wso at around 11:40 my time and 3 hours later its already half way down the page. Lets see what happens, and I believe your doing what you think is not only best for your users but for the forum as well.

        Originally Posted by admin View Post

        Right after that change the income from the WSO section dropped about $20,000. A month later it was right back to where it was, relaced by stuff that was worse for the most part.

        If you care to know the real goal I have I'll tell you. I 'hope' the number of new WSO's posted are cut exactly in half. Thinning the place out so offers stay on the first page longer and I don't have to create multiple subsections. That is the goal.
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      • Profile picture of the author tpw
        Originally Posted by admin View Post

        Right after that change the income from the WSO section dropped about $20,000. A month later it was right back to where it was, replaced by stuff that was worse for the most part.

        If you care to know the real goal I have I'll tell you. I 'hope' the number of new WSO's posted are cut exactly in half. Thinning the place out so offers stay on the first page longer and I don't have to create multiple subsections. That is the goal.

        That cut right to the chase... LOL

        People who rely solely on WSO's for their living aren't operating a real business are they? Not really... It may be a business, but if they have all of their eggs in one basket, they are oblivious to the realities of life...

        I hear you live in Louisiana... The next hurricane could take out the Says family and the Forum in a day and forever (I hope it doesn't happen, but it could happen in a worst case scenario)... Then those "business people" will go under promptly, at a complete loss as to how to save their business... That in my book is not a survivable business model...

        I hope this does work out to your goals... My last WSO survived on page one less than 8 hours...

        However, it must also be said that in the grand scheme of things, $40 is still cheap... Compare that to other advertising on the web... The WSO remains one of the cheapest forms of advertising in my arsenal of tools...

        Sure, I can distribute an article for less money, but I also have to calculate article writing costs into the equation as well... LOL

        And Bum Marketing (article marketing without paying anyone) will only take someone so far, then they need to start spending real money to advertise their business, if they want to sustain the growth of the their business...

        PPC will often exceed the cost of a WSO, unless someone has the perfect ad and sales funnel...

        Don't even get me started on the cost of SEO in time and money... LOL

        A WSO is still a hell of a deal at $40, and I hope it achieves your intended goals... but I don't hold out much hope for the price increase to be the problem fixer for you...

        It may solve your problem of not having to open a second WSO room, but it will not solve the problem of junk WSO's that so many people complain about and so many more people buy... LOL
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        • Profile picture of the author Hanz
          Originally Posted by tpw View Post

          That cut right to the chase... LOL

          People who rely solely on WSO's for their living aren't operating a real business are they? Not really... It may be a business, but if they have all of their eggs in one basket, they are oblivious to the realities of life...

          I hear you live in Louisiana... The next hurricane could take out the Says family and the Forum in a day and forever (I hope it doesn't happen, but it could happen in a worst case scenario)... Then those "business people" will go under promptly, at a complete loss as to how to save their business... That in my book is not a survivable business model...

          I hope this does work out to your goals... My last WSO survived on page one less than 8 hours...

          However, it must also be said that in the grand scheme of things, $40 is still cheap... Compare that to other advertising on the web... The WSO remains one of the cheapest forms of advertising in my arsenal of tools...

          Sure, I can distribute an article for less money, but I also have to calculate article writing costs into the equation as well... LOL

          And Bum Marketing (article marketing without paying anyone) will only take someone so far, then they need to start spending real money to advertise their business, if they want to sustain the growth of the their business...

          PPC will often exceed the cost of a WSO, unless someone has the perfect ad and sales funnel...

          Don't even get me started on the cost of SEO in time and money... LOL

          A WSO is still a hell of a deal at $40, and I hope it achieves your intended goals... but I don't hold out much hope for the price increase to be the problem fixer for you...

          It may solve your problem of not having to open a second WSO room, but it will not solve the problem of junk WSO's that so many people complain about and so many more people buy... LOL
          If poor folk see their e-business dwindling then they best go get a real job like the rest of the world eh? LOL!
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          • Profile picture of the author Tom B
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Hanz View Post

            If poor folk see their e-business dwindling then they best go get a real job like the rest of the world eh? LOL!
            Love your trolling.

            You seem to really have a problem with this even though you said your revenues are not based on this forum.

            Shall we dictate how much you sell your products for?

            I really wish Allen would ban you. I have yet to see anything of value from you on this forum.
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            • Profile picture of the author Hanz
              Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

              Love your trolling.

              You seem to really have a problem with this even though you said your revenues are not based on this forum.

              Shall we dictate how much you sell your products for?

              I really wish Allen would ban you. I have yet to see anything of value for you on this forum.
              I'm just having some fun Thomas. Lighten up!
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              • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                Good grief...I just went to the bathroom and like 20 new posts.

                I can't keep up with this thread anymore folks...I'm OLD.

                So PLEASE slow this train down!
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          • Profile picture of the author tpw
            Originally Posted by Hanz View Post

            If poor folk see their e-business dwindling then they best go get a real job like the rest of the world eh? LOL!
            Maybe... If they see their businesses dwindling, because they don't know how to run it profitably, then maybe they ARE better off with a job...
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    So now you wait until you make a bit more profit before bumping it. No big deal.

    Most of my sales come through my signature link, and the initial posting. I still bump from time to time, and it does give sales a boost, but the secret to selling WSOs, apart from a good offer is...

    Contribution.

    The more you contribute, the more you will get noticed, and the more people will feel like they know you.

    On the other hand, I wouldn't say I'm thrilled about this decision, but my world isn't going to come to an end because of it.

    In the end, it may not be a good or bad thing, really, just different.

    All the best,
    Michael
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    • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

      So now you wait until you make a bit more profit before bumping it. No big deal.

      Most of my sales come through my signature link, and the initial posting. I still bump from time to time, and it does give sales a boost, but the secret to selling WSOs, apart from a good offer is...

      Contribution.

      The more you contribute, the more you will get noticed, and the more people will feel like they know you.

      On the other hand, I wouldn't say I'm thrilled about this decision, but my world isn't going to come to an end because of it.

      In the end, it may not be a good or bad thing, really, just different.

      All the best,
      Michael

      WORD!

      Contribution.

      Imagine that.

      What a freaking concept.

      I owe you a beer for that one Michael.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
    If this move was made to cut down on the crappy WSO's being posted, as mentioned in another thread, then I don't believe it will have the desired effect. There are other measures I would personally have implemented before raising the price.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gene Pimentel
    Amen! Great move as far as I'm concerned. Higher price = a slower moving train. WSOs will stay on page 1 & 2 longer.
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    • Profile picture of the author Lance K
      Originally Posted by Gene Pimentel View Post

      Amen! Great move as far as I'm concerned. Higher price = a slower moving train. WSOs will stay on page 1 & 2 longer.
      That's kind of what I was thinking.

      Let's not even consider if reducing junk was a motivating factor. If the WSO listings decline by 1/2, Allen still makes the same amount. And listings stay up front longer. Allen doesn't lose anything and the vendors that are left are happier with their added exposure. Of course, this is a very simple explanation and one that could never account for a number of different variables. Which is why I'm sure Allen will track the results and adjust accordingly.
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      • Profile picture of the author admin
        Administrator
        Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

        That's kind of what I was thinking.

        Let's not even consider if reducing junk was a motivating factor. If the WSO listings decline by 1/2, Allen still makes the same amount. And listings stay up front longer. Allen doesn't lose anything and the vendors that are left are happier with their added exposure. Of course, this is a very simple explanation and one that could never account for a number of different variables. Which is why I'm sure Allen will track the results and adjust accordingly.

        You got it right Lance..

        Although I am hoping it does cut down on the junk offers. And it will, but the way in which it will I don't think I'll bring up here. If you just think about where tons of those junk offers 'come from' it won't take you long to get it. That's all I can say.
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by admin View Post

          You got it right Lance..

          Although I am hoping it does cut down on the junk offers. And it will, but the way in which it will I don't think I'll bring up here. If you just think about where tons of those junk offers 'come from' it won't take you long to get it. That's all I can say.
          Don't worry Allen...we get it.

          And not a second too soon.
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        • Profile picture of the author sal64
          Originally Posted by admin View Post

          You got it right Lance..

          Although I am hoping it does cut down on the junk offers. And it will, but the way in which it will I don't think I'll bring up here. If you just think about where tons of those junk offers 'come from' it won't take you long to get it. That's all I can say.
          Well, I don't mind the increase if it addresses the exposure issue.

          Sellers will live or die based on the quality they deliver. But having your offer disappear to page 3 in a few hours is annoying.

          From a buyers angle, the sub sections is the way to go.

          I also like the idea of some sort of disclosure template where everything about the product should be stated up front.
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          • Profile picture of the author Lance K
            Holy crap! WSOs just doubled in price again to $80.


























            Nah...I'm just effin with ya.
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        • Profile picture of the author ileneg
          Originally Posted by admin View Post

          Right after that change the income from the WSO section dropped about $20,000. A month later it was right back to where it was, replaced by stuff that was worse for the most part.

          If you care to know the real goal I have I'll tell you. I 'hope' the number of new WSO's posted are cut exactly in half. Thinning the place out so offers stay on the first page longer and I don't have to create multiple subsections. That is the goal.
          Originally Posted by admin View Post

          You got it right Lance..

          Although I am hoping it does cut down on the junk offers. And it will, but the way in which it will I don't think I'll bring up here. If you just think about where tons of those junk offers 'come from' it won't take you long to get it. That's all I can say.
          Maybe you should "sticky" your posts...and stop the madness

          Cheers,
          ileneg


          Originally Posted by admin View Post

          I would very much like to post an "I read between the lines" post here in response to this but I won't...

          I can't help but smile, it's better for my health to just smile.
          priceless
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
      Originally Posted by Gene Pimentel View Post

      WSOs will stay on page 1 & 2 longer.
      I wouldn't count on it. I expect that the effect will be minimal, but I would be happy to be pleasantly surprised.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dexx
    Just wanted to comment on all the responses that a "warning message" of the pending increase would have been nice...

    ...I don't think you realize the mass wave of WSOs that would have just flooded the section the minute such a message would have been sent.

    So sure...you get your WSO in for $20...and then 5 seconds later it'd be on the bottom of page as the THOUSANDS of Warrior Members who received the same message ALSO submit their "close to finished" products to "save" $20.

    Really...any tip off that a pending increase was coming would have had more complaints than benefits...not to mention the then "forced" $40 bump to get your "just paid for" WSO back on Page 1...

    So ya...

    In terms of slowing down the "crap" released, I think implementing a minimum Post Count (to show how you've helped improve the community prior to selling stuff to it) and maybe even a required amount of time being a member... I dunno

    ~Dexx
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    • Profile picture of the author hmigroupllc
      Originally Posted by Dexx View Post


      In terms of slowing down the "crap" released, I think implementing a minimum Post Count (to show how you've helped improve the community prior to selling stuff to it) and maybe even a required amount of time being a member... I dunno

      ~Dexx
      I'm sure that all the people that have thousands of "crap" comments would like this idea of using a comment count.

      No, I'm not saying you have "crap" comments...

      However, I've been here for years, I read a lot of what's going on, and add a comment here and there. Just like crap WSO's there are plenty of people that just find "standard" run of the mill answers, hoping to get lots of clicks on their signature links.

      Having bunches of comments is not a qualifier for having a good product or WSO.

      Just my opinion

      Stay well

      Wayne Sharer
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    • Profile picture of the author AcmeDude
      Originally Posted by Dexx View Post

      So ya...

      In terms of slowing down the "crap" released, I think implementing a minimum Post Count (to show how you've helped improve the community prior to selling stuff to it) and maybe even a required amount of time being a member... I dunno

      ~Dexx
      Dexx make a great point about some requirements, yeah i know i'm just a newbie on the forums, but i think that would benefit a lot of members. Maybe even required amount of thanks will be taken to consideration. Like lot of members pointed out earlier.

      *It would cause more WSO appearing in the section, but also disappering from page1, since there would be a lot of ppl that would want to save 20$.
      *Potentially the WSO offer prices will increase. I think the ones that contribute a real value with his offer not some mumbo-jumbo, wont have to worry about their offers. I believe if someone doesnt believe in his offered product more than 100%, then why the prospect would believe that the offer is trully great.

      In a nutshell the ones that believe in their product wont rise the prices because the value it contains.
      *It may or may not decrease the con artists, just because they know what sells just like Steven said.

      Maybe there should a thread in the WSO forums, like Think before buy.
      A lot of people are looking for to get a quick buck and they fall pray for those con artists. Its just like its say people are responsible for their own action.

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  • Profile picture of the author MilesT
    Steven Wagenheim - Good points.

    Question:
    Does WF consider itself an open incubator for new marketers?

    Just wondering, because the increase makes it much less appealing.

    Like Steven said - for the small guy who still has an honest product but, a low cost product, this price increase, I think, is unreasonable and gives good reason to not participate in WSOs. So, value lost for the WF. bummer.

    Standards, not Price, is a better way to increase value to the WF and WSOs. Raising the standards would certainly weed out the bad offers. Raising the price only weeds out more marketers, many of them with solid products that are a good value.

    Here's my post from they skyrocketing "Pet Peeves" post...

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by djleon1
    • Have a required field where it is told what the WSO actually does. This should not be too specific but at least give the buyer some idea. Is it software, videos, etc.
    • No More Monetary Claims
    • Limit the listing to under 700 words or some number that works
    • Limit the # of WSO's a member can run at any one time.
    • Only one WSO per product - I have seen multple wso's selling the same product. Split-test somewhere else.
    • If there are upsells, recurring fees etc they need to be disclosed.
    • The product needs to be complete unless disclosed - no buy my WSO for $7 but inorder for it to work you will need to buy product X from me for $97


    I think this is a good set of standards.
    • They are all achievable
    • they favor the buyer
    • they do not create unreasonable work for the seller
    These standards force sellers to create better products based on disclosure of (1) What the product actually does (and not overstating what it is not), and (2) having to be more succinct in stating the main features and benefits which would make it easier for buyers to read through the fluff. If there is even room for fluff.

    The one point I'd like to change is that all WSOs should ALWAYS be a complete product with no upsells attached to "make it work."

    Raising the price would only penalize the new marketer making an honest effort to sell a few products, or those who sell lower price products. Just because a product has a low price does not mean its a bad or unworthy product.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
      Or a much better way if you are going to price your front end cheap and that is to have a solid backend gameplan where you make way more money.

      Case in point:

      AMAZING 7 dollar product that blow's people away...and the upsell is then a 30 day trial to a 37 dollar a month recurring membership. People then get 1 to 4 new reports a month.

      Say in the course of a month you only break even on the front end. 100 Buyers = 700 bucks but you bumped it 18 times.

      However, you convert at 20%, getting 20 people in your 37 dollar membership. They stay for an average of 3 months, so you get 1480 in profits.

      Plus you have a list of 100 people who adore your product and will buy more for you for free.

      Also, you can link to your thread in the sig file and get a lot exposure there.

      You can turn the buyers into affiliates to promote your product and get it to go viral.

      There are tons of things you can do to make it profitable...even if the cost was 200 bucks.

      Rob

      Originally Posted by MilesT View Post

      Steven Wagenheim - Good points.

      Question:
      Does WF consider itself an open incubator for new marketers?

      Just wondering, because the increase makes it much less appealing.

      Like Steven said - for the small guy who still has an honest product but, a low cost product, this price increase, I think, is unreasonable and gives good reason to not participate in WSOs. So, value lost for the WF. bummer.

      Standards, not Price, is a better way to increase value to the WF and WSOs. Raising the standards would certainly weed out the bad offers. Raising the price only weeds out more marketers, many of them with solid products that are a good value.

      Here's my post from they skyrocketing "Pet Peeves" post...

      Quote:
      Originally Posted by djleon1
      • Have a required field where it is told what the WSO actually does. This should not be too specific but at least give the buyer some idea. Is it software, videos, etc.
      • No More Monetary Claims
      • Limit the listing to under 700 words or some number that works
      • Limit the # of WSO's a member can run at any one time.
      • Only one WSO per product - I have seen multple wso's selling the same product. Split-test somewhere else.
      • If there are upsells, recurring fees etc they need to be disclosed.
      • The product needs to be complete unless disclosed - no buy my WSO for $7 but inorder for it to work you will need to buy product X from me for $97


      I think this is a good set of standards.
      • They are all achievable
      • they favor the buyer
      • they do not create unreasonable work for the seller
      These standards force sellers to create better products based on disclosure of (1) What the product actually does (and not overstating what it is not), and (2) having to be more succinct in stating the main features and benefits which would make it easier for buyers to read through the fluff. If there is even room for fluff.

      The one point I'd like to change is that all WSOs should ALWAYS be a complete product with no upsells attached to "make it work."

      Raising the price would only penalize the new marketer making an honest effort to sell a few products, or those who sell lower price products. Just because a product has a low price does not mean its a bad or unworthy product.
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      • Profile picture of the author MilesT
        Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

        Or a much better way if you are going to price your front end cheap and that is to have a solid backend gameplan where you make way more money.
        True, but that goes on the assumption that all marketers want to pursue a continuity program, which all don't.

        You can make the argument that its better for them, but only if they want that.
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    • Profile picture of the author Lance K
      Originally Posted by MilesT View Post

      Steven Wagenheim - Good points.

      Question:
      Does WF consider itself an open incubator for new marketers?

      Just wondering, because the increase makes it much less appealing.

      Like Steven said - for the small guy who still has an honest product but, a low cost product, this price increase, I think, is unreasonable and gives good reason to not participate in WSOs. So, value lost for the WF. bummer.
      Not necessarily. It says right in the WSO Forum rules...

      The Rules:

      2. A Warrior Special Offer Means The Price You Give Must Be Better Than The Price The Public At Large Can Get. (This is not a "buy my product" forum, it is a "Special Offer" forum)
      So you would think someone would have a good enough handle on their conversion numbers to decide whether $40 was an acceptable investment for an ad.

      And if it's a launch/pre-launch type discount offer, $40 is pretty cheap way to determine whether or not your offer is a winner.
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      • Profile picture of the author Joe118
        Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

        So you would think someone would have a good enough handle on their conversion numbers to decide whether $40 was an acceptable investment for an ad.

        And if it's a launch/pre-launch type discount offer, $40 is pretty cheap way to determine whether or not your offer is a winner.
        I'm guessing by the number of your posts that you're relatively old timer. We're talking about someone who is starting out but has a good idea for a WSO, no experience and hence absolutely NO clue about any of the stuff you mention above.

        What about such a WSO? It will not be published now. On the other hands the hucksters who promise the sky and sell you snake oil, they wont even blink.
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        • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
          Now, if the price for asking for a 'review copy' was $40 that would really help clean the place up...

          Seriously, how big is that hard drive of yours, anyway...:rolleyes:

          ~Bill
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        • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
          I think that the $40 price is probably more than warranted considering the amount of money that flows through that section of the forum.

          I do want to point out something kind of comical...and ironic though...maybe even a bit comical?

          So, some folks are complaining about the increase in cost to post or bump a WSO...right? Well, right behind them are the folks telling them how to take it in stride, with ideas like:

          IMPROVE YOUR COPY
          MAKE YOUR OFFER STAND OUT
          GET MORE PEOPLE INTO YOUR SALES FUNNEL
          ADD SOME UPSELLS
          MAKE YOUR SALES FUNNEL BETTER
          ETC
          ETC

          err...aren't many of these things the very things that started the whole WSO debate again? lol

          The copy is too "good"
          People are doing things like claiming raving reviews, and using the words shocked.
          WSO's are supposed to be for "giving back" and not to get people into your sales funnel.
          UPSELLS are bad

          Jesus, talk about being able to be in two places at one time.
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

            I think that the $40 price is probably more than warranted considering the amount of money that flows through that section of the forum.

            .
            .
            .

            Jesus, talk about being able to be in two places at one time.
            Jeremy, human nature is the cause of many of the problems that the
            price increase is going to cause. Maybe complaints is a better word than
            problems.

            On The Seller Side

            Sellers are going to want to make more money to make up for the increased
            cost. Some will simply stick to what they've done, actually having some
            integrity while others will make their WSO claims even more wild and crazy
            trying to appeal to...

            The Buyer

            Who, for the most part, is still looking for that magic bullet...that one
            product that's FINALLY going to turn their failure of a business into a
            6 figure a year monster.

            They'll complain that this magic bullet now costs more to buy

            When these two forces meet, no good can come from it...none.

            I'm not saying that all sellers and buyers fit in the above mold, but I am
            willing to bet that a good portion does.

            It is human nature and it's not going to change.

            When costs go up, you increase prices or you lose money. Forget the WSO
            forum. That's how the REAL world works or you're not running your business
            correctly.

            Unless of course you don't mind losing money.

            As a consumer, when costs go up, you buy less unless it's a necessity.

            At least I do.

            I totally see Allen's reason for doing what he did and as I said, I am all
            for it and feel it's the right thing to do given what we had.

            I just know human nature and won't bet my life on this actually turning
            out beneficial for seller or buyer or either.

            But I guess time will tell, won't it.
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          • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
            Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

            I do want to point out something kind of comical...and ironic though...maybe even a bit comical?
            That's ironical.

            ; )
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            • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
              Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod View Post

              That's ironical.

              Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall
              I do want to point out something kind of comical...and ironic though...maybe even a bit comical?
              Jeremy, I saw that post too. Was kinda hoping those WSOs would be the first to be eliminated.

              I don't think this will have much effect except to pass-along the price increase.
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  • Profile picture of the author seojedi
    A someone who has recently joined this community after being away for years, I'd gladly pay $100 (hypothetically:-) for the opportunity to participate in a forum that is chock full of knowledge, experience and expertise on the topic of making money online.
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  • Profile picture of the author J42
    Well instead of making around $2,500 a day from the WSO board Allen will now make $5,000/day (+/-) or $1.8 million a year so I see it as a smart move.
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    • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
      Originally Posted by J42 View Post

      Well instead of making around $2,500 a day from the WSO board Allen will now make $5,000/day (+/-) or $1.8 million a year so I see it as a smart move.
      This isn't entirely true. With an increase in price, you have to consider that price will become a barrier (for some). Some won't use the forum, and those who would post garbage WSOs could potentially go down.

      Less people paying $40

      or

      More people paying $20

      I think his daily income wil reamain similar, however, quality 'could' go up. There are a million ways to look at this. We could assume that all $7 products are garbage, but that isn't entirely true either....just as we could say that all $97 products are great (that isn't always true either). Even still, I think this move will drive WSO prices up a bit more....
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        Selling 6 copies of a $7 WSO wll pay the fee - if you can't sell 6 copies with the massive traffic on this forum you need to work on your product or your copywriting (or your reputation).

        We're only talking $40, people - not the end of the world. Will it help cut the clutter? Don't know until we try it, will we?

        kay
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        • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          Selling 6 copies of a $7 WSO wll pay the fee - if you can't sell 6 copies with the massive traffic on this forum you need to work on your product or your copywriting (or your reputation).

          We're only talking $40, people - not the end of the world. Will it help cut the clutter? Don't know until we try it, will we?

          kay
          But, Kay, that will only be $2 profit instead of the $22 they would have got before!



          ~M~
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      FTR: I had no idea this was coming, so anything I say here is based on the same info everyone else has.

      Thank you to the folks who spotted the potential problem of a flood of WSOs being posted immediately if Allen had mentioned this in advance. That's paying attention.

      If he had announced his intentions before implementing it, I can guarantee you that the whole forum would have been taken over with threads yelling, screaming, crying, threatening and generally acting as though we have any vote other than the one we make with our money. And nothing would have been said that hasn't been said a hundred times before in conversations about that section.

      Nothing useful would have come of it.

      As far as why he did it, I could probably make a better guess than most people, but it would still be just that: A guess. No point in gussing on something like this that I can see. The fact is that Allen has access to information that could help to properly inform such decisions that the rest of us don't.


      Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Louise Green
    Personally I'd like to see the price increase to $100+, that will stop the fly by nights.

    But then, on the other hand, it might stop newbies marketers from making their first moves in IM.
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    • Profile picture of the author TimCastleman
      One of the easiest ways to increase your profits is to raise your prices.

      I am sure some people will stop using the WSO forum but I bet the bottom line isn't affected.

      Oh and maybe with the increased price you will see people charging more for their products.

      What a novel concept!

      Tim
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      • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
        Originally Posted by TimCastleman View Post

        One of the easiest ways to increase your profits is to raise your prices.

        I am sure some people will stop using the WSO forum but I bet the bottom line isn't affected.

        Oh and maybe with the increased price you will see people charging more for their products.

        What a novel concept!

        Tim
        People should charge for their products what they are worth, BUT, they should also work hard to establish their WSO....and, gradual, over time, exert influence and gain the attention of those who can give powerful reviews/testimonials. This all goes back to relationship building and TRULY investing in the forum. If you want your WSO to succeed, you have to give to others and establish relationships.
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        • Profile picture of the author TimCastleman
          Originally Posted by x3xsolxdierx3x View Post

          People should charge for their products what they are worth, BUT, they should also work hard to establish their WSO....and, gradual, over time, exert influence and gain the attention of those who can give powerful reviews/testimonials. This all goes back to relationship building and TRULY investing in the forum. If you want your WSO to succeed, you have to give to others and establish relationships.
          Umm ... no you don't.

          Stop waiting for others to tell you when you've made it.

          There is no need to "wait" or "work hard" or do things gradually.

          That's how I increased my income 400%+ this year.

          I don't wait for others to tell me squat.

          Plus lets be honest if $20 extra bucks kills you then you have bigger problems than being on the WSO forum.
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          • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
            Originally Posted by TimCastleman View Post

            Umm ... no you don't.

            Stop waiting for others to tell you when you've made it.

            There is no need to "wait" or "work hard" or do things gradually.

            That's how I increased my income 400%+ this year.

            I don't wait for others to tell me squat.

            Plus lets be honest if $20 extra bucks kills you then you have bigger problems than being on the WSO forum.
            Did I say that $20 extra bucks would kill me?

            Once you learn the WSO forum, you learn when to bump and when not to....and, you don't treat it like your only source of income, like Karl said.

            It DOES provide an awesome opportunity to build social proof behind your product. Even the greatest products of all time seek reviews and testimonials. Even freelancing services require at least some degree of positive customer experiences that will manifest into word of mouth....and, if you aren't establishing relationships and building up social proof behind your products and online presence, then you are leaving a significant amount of money on the table.

            Congratulations if you have managed to do everything you have done without building and nurturing a single strategic relationship, or seeking reviews/testimonials. Release it as a WSO. I'll buy it. Seriously.
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      • Profile picture of the author oneplusone
        Originally Posted by TimCastleman View Post

        One of the easiest ways to increase your profits is to raise your prices.

        I am sure some people will stop using the WSO forum but I bet the bottom line isn't affected.

        Oh and maybe with the increased price you will see people charging more for their products.

        What a novel concept!

        Tim
        Increased prices usually equals a reduction in conversion rates, so I doubt that will happen.

        As I've said in my previous posts, what sellers have to do now is ensure their first product is great and they have a good sales funnel.

        Many of the people selling junk were only doing so, because they knew they would get into profit on the front end sale.

        When the back end comes into play, it is a different game altogether.

        Then the quality of the first product becomes VERY important.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jason Fladlien
      I'm glad it happened. Any change is great at this point because we can then see how this plays out and maybe make another few tweaks.

      Personally, if the $40 is too much to invest to run a WSO - saving $20 isn't going to help your situation much.

      Every WSO I've ever ran, made over $200 before I even bumped it once. Heck, back in the day it was easy to make $1000 without even trying. I'd rather have a $100 listing fee and 1/5th the WSOs than a $20 listing fee. I'd make more profits with a $100 listing fee because I'd sell a lot more stuff.
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
        Originally Posted by Jason Fladlien View Post

        I'm glad it happened. Any change is great at this point because we can then see how this plays out and maybe make another few tweaks.

        Personally, if the $40 is too much to invest to run a WSO - saving $20 isn't going to help your situation much.

        Every WSO I've ever ran, made over $200 before I even bumped it once. Heck, back in the day it was easy to make $1000 without even trying. I'd rather have a $100 listing fee and 1/5th the WSOs than a $20 listing fee. I'd make more profits with a $100 listing fee because I'd sell a lot more stuff.
        That's great for those of us who "get it", but not everybody fits into that category.

        Ultimately, I think the junk won't go away (or at least not enough of it), and some deserving people won't be able to get into the game, but even better...

        It will force more people to take their online business building efforts more seriously. While $20 doesn't seem like a lot, $40 does to a lot of people. However, even though their investment to list a WSO has doubled, my best guess is that the return on that investment will be much more than double because of how seriously they will now take it.

        If that makes sense?

        All the best,
        Michael
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Hey guys, wanna kill it at the WSO forum?

          Here's what you do.

          1. Make a great product at a great offer with tiered pricing.

          2. Sell a limited number of copies.

          3. Offer buyers who bought the first product a chance to get on a special
          buyers list to be notified first before anybody else.

          4. Make another great product with same tiered pricing and same limited
          number of copies.

          5. Promote to list.

          6. Save your WSO fees for something else.
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          • Profile picture of the author Lance K
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            Hey guys, wanna kill it at the WSO forum?

            Here's what you do.

            1. Make a great product at a great offer with tiered pricing.

            2. Sell a limited number of copies.

            3. Offer buyers who bought the first product a chance to get on a special
            buyers list to be notified first before anybody else.

            4. Make another great product with same tiered pricing and same limited
            number of copies.

            5. Promote to list.

            6. Save your WSO fees for something else.
            Nice system there, Steven. And if anyone doubts that it works, they obviously haven't paid attention to any of your WSOs.

            Also, you could add the following to your system...

            3b. Once the offer is SOLD OUT, replace your order link with a link to an announcement list opt in form so those that missed out can be notified of the next offer as well (in case your past buyers don't buy all the copies of the new product).

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      • Profile picture of the author templarjustice
        Originally Posted by Jason Fladlien View Post

        I'm glad it happened. Any change is great at this point because we can then see how this plays out and maybe make another few tweaks.

        Personally, if the $40 is too much to invest to run a WSO - saving $20 isn't going to help your situation much.

        Every WSO I've ever ran, made over $200 before I even bumped it once. Heck, back in the day it was easy to make $1000 without even trying. I'd rather have a $100 listing fee and 1/5th the WSOs than a $20 listing fee. I'd make more profits with a $100 listing fee because I'd sell a lot more stuff.

        Hell, let's make the fee $200 then. What fee amount would be "low enough", or shall I say "high enough" to make it effective for EVERYONE?

        Also, at what rate do you turn out a WSO? Once a month, once a week?
        It may not be the lifeblood of your business, but it might be a major break for others.

        Again, I go back to the different niche -- A person who is a graphic designer can produce regularly quality work, vs. someone pushing 1 software product once per month.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    Want to know what I find to be the funniest thing of all?

    I'll tell you.



    There are more people complaining about the price going from $20 to $40, then complained about it going from $0 to $20.

    That just seems odd to me.

    Yes?

    All the best,
    Michael
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

      Want to know what I find to be the funniest thing of all?

      I'll tell you.



      There are more people complaining about the price going from $20 to $40, then complained about it going from $0 to $20.

      That just seems odd to me.

      Yes?

      All the best,
      Michael

      Hey Michael, when I got here, the price was already $20 so it didn't
      matter to me what the price was.

      As for now, also don't really care. If I can't make $40 from a WSO, I
      need to go back working a 9 to 5.

      No, better yet...I need to put a 22 caliber to my head.
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      • Profile picture of the author dbarnum
        It’s basic business sense. And running this forum isn't free. There are hosting costs, tech costs, time and energy costs on behalf of many, and other associated costs.

        And you get results: bottom line.

        Test a print classified ad in your local newspapers or another type of ad, and then pay the WSO or other Warrior forum posting fee, and post your ad. Then note the click difference as well as other results.

        Our tests:



        We've run a few different tests on this over the past couple years and on average, the cost runs approx. $200 for a month for the following:

        - 30 days of a daily ad in the main newspaper of the capital city of the state with a special section on Sundays

        - a weekly ad in the city's tv guide for 4 weeks

        - a weekly ad in several suburban newspapers in surrounding areas

        - a monthly website ad

        Results:


        - All the above still brings a lot less traffic combined during the entire 30 days than a WSO or other Warrior ad.

        - Traffic via the Warrior forum is much more targeted (i.e. people who reply are into the IM scene and know what they want and need better than those who respond via local channels).

        - The closing ratio is much higher for people who come in via the Warrior forum.


        So hey, keep it up, Allen! Love your forum and still use it with our clients instead of having our own
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    • Profile picture of the author VioFX
      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

      Want to know what I find to be the funniest thing of all?

      I'll tell you.



      There are more people complaining about the price going from $20 to $40, then complained about it going from $0 to $20.

      That just seems odd to me.

      Yes?

      All the best,
      Michael
      Noticed the same, I guess you can simply add both groups up and it = all the people who think their WSO doesn't have quality enough for an extra $20
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  • Profile picture of the author GameVoid
    Does anyone have any data on the performance difference between selling a product on the WSO forum versus just selling it in the classified ads section?

    If newbies like me could be comfortable knowing that our products have just as much of a chance at selling in the classifieds forum as in WSO, just taking longer, it might not be a big deal.
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    • Originally Posted by GameVoid View Post

      Does anyone have any data on the performance difference between selling a product on the WSO forum versus just selling it in the classified ads section.
      The Classifieds have gone up to $40 too.

      My experience is that my Classifieds get nowhere close to the number of views of my WSOs, even with the extra time they're near the top of the forum, lower competition, and the same amount of promotional work (via signature links etc).

      Thom
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      • Profile picture of the author Lance K
        Originally Posted by impact-productions View Post

        The Classifieds have gone up to $40 too.
        Thom, I just looked in the Classified section and clicked on the link that explains how to pay for and bump a classified, it still lists $20 as the price.
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        • Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

          Thom, I just looked in the Classified section and clicked on the link that explains how to pay for and bump a classified, it still lists $20 as the price.
          I just clicked the 'Promote' button on mine to check and it's quoting $40. I expect it just that the documentation's not been updated yet.

          To be fair, it wouldn't make sense to have different sections of the forum charging different prices.

          Thom
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      • Profile picture of the author admin
        Administrator
        Originally Posted by impact-productions View Post

        The Classifieds have gone up to $40 too.

        My experience is that my Classifieds get nowhere close to the number of views of my WSOs, even with the extra time they're near the top of the forum, lower competition, and the same amount of promotional work (via signature links etc).

        Thom

        Hmm...hold off on posting a classified if you where going to. The other sections were not supposed to go up. I'll get the programmer to fix that...
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by admin View Post

          Hmm...hold off on posting a classified if you where going to. The other sections were not supposed to go up. I'll get the programmer to fix that...
          Was the Complete Sites for Sale section supposed to go up too?
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        • Profile picture of the author A Bary
          Originally Posted by admin View Post

          Hmm...hold off on posting a classified if you where going to. The other sections were not supposed to go up. I'll get the programmer to fix that...

          Allen...could you plz clarify this?

          What "other section" do you mean? I clicked on "promote" link for an old WFH section thread and the pump costs $40!

          Thanks.

          A. Bary
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    • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
      Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

      Or a much better way if you are going to price your front end cheap and that is to have a solid backend gameplan where you make way more money.

      Case in point:

      AMAZING 7 dollar product that blow's people away...and the upsell is then a 30 day trial to a 37 dollar a month recurring membership. People then get 1 to 4 new reports a month.

      Say in the course of a month you only break even on the front end. 100 Buyers = 700 bucks but you bumped it 18 times.

      However, you convert at 20%, getting 20 people in your 37 dollar membership. They stay for an average of 3 months, so you get 1480 in profits.

      Plus you have a list of 100 people who adore your product and will buy more for you for free.

      Also, you can link to your thread in the sig file and get a lot exposure there.

      You can turn the buyers into affiliates to promote your product and get it to go viral.

      There are tons of things you can do to make it profitable...even if the cost was 200 bucks.

      Rob
      Finally... a true marketing brain speaks out. Nice post Rob, my sentiments exactly. It's this line of strategic thinking that makes the difference between the just above broke and the high flyers in this game.
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    • Profile picture of the author VioFX
      Quality over quantity, rather see 10 nice WSO's then 20 average WSO's, hopefully this change will make that happen.

      Intrigued to see the outcome, will be watching the WSO forum a little more now to see what quality products pop up.

      Cheers.
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    • Profile picture of the author Pradeep Bhagwat
      If price of WSO is hiked then it is sad news for newbies. I think those who had posted WSO they know how rapidly their WSO moves from first page to the next. It can happen for many reasons like

      - Bad product,
      - Good product but bad sales letter,
      - Technical problems for paying or contacting,
      - Tough competition,
      - Lack of friends to back you (In the form of positive commenting your thread) etc.

      I think by raising the fees it is going to be more tough for newbies. I think following can be done instead of hiking price through out -

      1. Can create special section for new offers and their fees should be less.
      2. After certain days limit that WSO thread will remain in that section.
      3) After certain days it will moved to matured thread section for another certain days.
      4) At last it will moved to final section where it will remain for certain days.
      For last step another fees structure can be developed.

      In this way Warriors will be get assured that their thread will be remain their for certain time and Warrior forum management also get fair money.

      (This is just thought. It can be developed. There is no limit...)

      - Pradeep
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      • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
        WSO's don't 'cost' $40 at all... if you run them correctly.

        In fact, WSOs should give you back many times your
        initial investment.

        Think about it...

        For $40 you get the opportunity to place your offer in
        front of an audience of proven buyers - many of them
        rabid - and some are complaining about the price hike?

        Come on guys and gals - it's time to think like a business
        person.

        Even if you only get ONE customer from each WSO you
        run, you're going to average over $40 in profit in the
        time their with you - if you know what you're doing.

        Create an irresistable front-end offer and then make even
        more money on the back-end.

        I despair at some of the stinking thinking and outright
        poverty consciousness expressed in some of the
        comments on this thread.

        Remember...

        "Poor thinking habits keeps most people poor." Earl Shoaff

        Dedicated to your success,

        Shaun
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    • Profile picture of the author King Shiloh
      Banned
      Only change is permanent. And as long as heaven and earth remain, there will never be a perfect human system.

      Human beings are never satisfied. The owner of this forum can never satisfy every member of this forum. Make it free and some people will still ask questions why it should not be made "freer". Make it "freer" and some folks will still want it to be the "freest".
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  • Profile picture of the author Mukul Verma
    Here is my take...the warning would have been nice, but like anything else that does well prices go up.

    I like selling higher quality WSO for cheap as it can out to more people (I am sure if it was only about money, you can make the same on both cheap or expensive, depends on your game plan). This will force me to make the prices of my WSO more.

    Cheers
    Mukul
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  • Profile picture of the author KarlWarren
    HA HA HA HA HA!!! Sorry, but this thread is hilarous.

    If the WSO forum IS your only source of income, and an increase in $20 for the fee is your main concern, what would you do if it was shut down forever?

    Bye bye business...!

    Here's the sensible approach...

    Take some of your eggs and put them in another basket.

    If you rely on the money that the WSO forum brings you, and you can't pay your bills without it - you should seriously consider the consequences of losing that income stream.

    If you're a freelancer, you're probably already leaving money on the table by not asking for repeat business from your existing clients.

    If you're offer products, build your FUNNEL, build your LIST and look after it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kelly Verge
    For me (at least this year), my WSO's have been entry points into my funnel. I sell my stuff for stupidly low prices and ride the break-even point on the front end.

    For me, this will mean one of four things:
    1. I test raising/lowering prices so that I maintain the balance
    2. I bump fewer products and stop bumping sooner in the product cycle
    3. I work harder at adding new products to the funnel and bump the new WSO's for a briefer time period
    4. I stop using the WSO section for this purpose

    Of the four, #2 will happen first.


    (And if it goes away, it's really not a crisis.)
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  • Profile picture of the author Caleb Spilchen
    There was a warning... If you see the thread about WSO's and complaints that has been active in the last couple days, which is here you will see allen mentions this as a possibility.

    The post got lots of thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author Dave d
    IMHO it wont raise the quality of WSO's because a lot of scammers are good at making money.

    If I run a WSO I plan on making more than $40 anyway or I wouldn't be runinng one.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Well, I only post my offers in the Complete Sites for Sale section as inexpensive PLR sites. This will change the number of listings I bump. When you don't have the huge headlines promising thousands in minutes, you don't have the same kind of sales, so it's a factor. I just lowered my prices, which I probably wouldn't have done if I had known.
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    • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
      So, the WSO's have gone up from $20 to $40?

      That's good news.

      This is an opportunity for some people to improve their
      sales and marketing skills.

      And the higher price point will also knock-out some
      of the WSO charlatans who aren't making the money
      they claim.

      Unfortunately, it won't get rid of the scammers who
      are making the bucks by running wild claim WSOs though.

      Time to sharpen your marketing saw.

      Dedicated to your success,

      Shaun
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
        Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

        So, the WSO's have gone up from $20 to $40?

        That's good news.

        This is an opportunity for some people to improve their
        sales and marketing skills.

        And the higher price point will also knock-out some
        of the WSO charlatans who aren't making the money
        they claim.

        Unfortunately, it won't get rid of the scammers who
        are making the bucks by running wild claim WSOs though.

        Time to sharpen your marketing saw.

        Dedicated to your success,

        Shaun
        Hi Shaun,

        That's what I was getting at. Thank you saying it so much better!

        Also, I used to be a saw sharpener before I went full-time in IM. I would sharpen about 100 carbide-tipped circular saws every day...ev-er-y day.

        All the best,
        Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author pavionjsl
    I'm on the more is better side. 60-100 would even be better.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kelly Verge
    For those of you chasing black helicopters...

    Only Allen knows for sure, but I strongly suspect that many of the changes he's made to the WSO policies have lowered his income from that section. This change will probably do the same (short term). Only time will tell what it will mean for him in the long term.

    If you honestly think Allen is trying to milk this forum for all he can, you really need to open your eyes.
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  • Profile picture of the author keadams26
    More money is the only reason. I find it humorous that so many people are trying to make excuses for the increase in prices when the real reason is as plain as day. So many of you want to act like this place is run by folks who are saintly. Only in it to help others when, in fact, they are just like us and want to make money.
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  • Profile picture of the author KarlWarren
    Follow the link in my sig to get my new report:

    HOW TO LIST/BUMP YOUR WSO FOR FREE!!!
    ONLY $97

    Only 50 copies remaining
    Signature
    eCoverNinja - Sales Page Graphics & Layout Specialist
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  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    I think the price increase can end up being a good thing, and I hardly believe Alan raised the price to bilk more money out of the WSO section.

    I also think a more strict enforcement of the WSO rules needs to take place, and income claims if can't be substantiated should not be allowed in any part of a wso thread.

    People offering services by using accounts they have with other vendors should be completely cut from the forum in my opinion. If they don't own the site they have no business using it to make money which takes away from the original owners potential market. It is especially bad that Vendor A who, spent tons of time, and money to provide a service to have a member of that service turn around and be allowed to resell it on the same venue resulting in competing against the the vendor who actually owns the service. That's not good, I don't tolerate it and its against my TOS and I do find my users who do it and ban them immediately. Sorry kinda ended up ranting there a bit. = )

    Just my two cents.

    PS: I plan on bumping every other day btw. = )
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    • Profile picture of the author templarjustice
      Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post


      People offering services by using accounts they have with other vendors should be completely cut from the forum in my opinion. If they don't own the site they have no business using it to make money which takes away from the original owners potential market.
      PS: I plan on bumping every other day btw. = )
      You must mean like people creating an operation using "Fivvr.com" eh? lol

      So, you are prepared to take a $300 increase to your expense per month, for an actual monthly spend of $600 per month for 1 WSO?

      What if you had 5 WSO's that you are running? You are prepared to have a direct spend of $3,000?

      I'd really like to hear some input on that one.
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      • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
        Originally Posted by templarjustice View Post

        You must mean like people creating an operation using "Fivvr.com" eh? lol

        So, you are prepared to take a $300 increase to your expense per month, for an actual monthly spend of $600 per month for 1 WSO?

        What if you had 5 WSO's that you are running? You are prepared to have a direct spend of $3,000?

        I'd really like to hear some input on that one.
        Okay, so if that person really has their marketing act together, they are funnelling 100% of the front-end sale back into their marketing and advertising budget and making their money off of upsells and continuity instead of pulling this typical drive-by shooting, wannabe attempts at running a business.

        That means if a person is jamming $3000 in marketing because that's how much they're selling on the front end, I would expect that they're doing, at minimum, twice that in upsells, additional promotions, and continuity revenue.
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        • Profile picture of the author templarjustice
          Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

          Okay, so if that person really has their marketing act together, they are funnelling 100% of the front-end sale back into their marketing and advertising budget and making their money off of upsells and continuity instead of pulling this typical drive-by shooting, wannabe attempts at running a business.

          That means if a person is jamming $3000 in marketing because that's how much they're selling on the front end, I would expect that they're doing, at minimum, twice that in upsells, additional promotions, and continuity revenue.
          Exactly, that's why I pondered the question to Rus Sells --

          You do know my calcs. were based on his statement of:
          "I plan to bump every other day"......So, I'd definitely like to see what he's prepared to bring to the table and how long it will last.
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      • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
        Yes and namely the exact same venue I advertise my services on, namely here.

        Am I prepared to take an increase in advertising cost's? Yes of course I am and if I had my way the wso section would not allow others to ride on the coat tails of others efforts, time and money spent in creaing a service to only have it resold on the exact same venue. I'd probably make up that much more in new users which would cover the increased advertising cost's if it wasn't allowed, and in my opinion according to the current wso rules its not allowed. Rule 8.



        Originally Posted by templarjustice View Post

        You must mean like people creating an operation using "Fivvr.com" eh? lol

        So, you are prepared to take a $300 increase to your expense per month, for an actual monthly spend of $600 per month for 1 WSO?

        What if you had 5 WSO's that you are running? You are prepared to have a direct spend of $3,000?

        I'd really like to hear some input on that one.
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        • Profile picture of the author Lance K
          To those commenting about how the fee increase will lead to higher priced products. The listing price of a WSO going from $20 to $40 doesn't automatically mean the prices charged for products and services will increase.

          What it does mean is that your cost of acquiring a customer will double IF everything else stays the same.

          If you averaged 20 customers with the $20 fee, it cost you $1 to acquire a customer. If you averaged 20 customers with the $40 fee, it cost you $2 to acquire a customer. So yeah, your cost of acquisition doubled, but it's still minuscule.

          Besides that, arbitrarily raising the price of your product or service just because the price of the ad went to $40 is absurd. Especially if a bunch of other people have the same knee jerk reaction.

          What if everyone else took the short sighted approach of raising their prices to cover a rather small increase in fixed costs and you instead...

          Ran a test dropping your price from $17 to $7 (rather than increasing to $27). If you're one of the few really inexpensive offers remaining in a marketplace that's been trained to expect inexpensive products and services, you just might sell more. If you tripled your conversion rate and sold 30 units instead of 10, you would have $210 instead of $170. You made $40 more. So you cover the increased listing fee, and you walk away with an extra $20 and 20 more customers.

          Point is...test. Don't just raise your prices because your first reaction is that it's the best way to cover an extra $20 of fixed costs.

          I tell you what I would do. I'd get my ducks in a row and nail down the lifetime value of a new WSO customer. Then I'd optimize the heck out of my offer so that it secured the maximum number of customers. Even if I had to lower my prices to do so.
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          • Profile picture of the author templarjustice
            Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

            To those commenting about how the fee increase will lead to higher priced products. The listing price of a WSO going from $20 to $40 doesn't automatically mean the prices charged for products and services will increase.

            What it does mean is that your cost of acquiring a customer will double IF everything else stays the same.

            If you averaged 20 customers with the $20 fee, it cost you $1 to acquire a customer. If you averaged 20 customers with the $40 fee, it cost you $2 to acquire a customer. So yeah, your cost of acquisition doubled, but it's still minuscule.

            Besides that, arbitrarily raising the price of your product or service just because the price of the ad went to $40 is absurd. Especially if a bunch of other people have the same knee jerk reaction.

            What if everyone else took the short sighted approach of raising their prices to cover a rather small increase in fixed costs and you instead...

            Ran a test dropping your price from $17 to $7 (rather than increasing to $27). If you're one of the few really inexpensive offers remaining in a marketplace that's been trained to expect inexpensive products and services, you just might sell more. If you tripled your conversion rate and sold 30 units instead of 10, you would have $210 instead of $170. You made $40 more. So you cover the increased listing fee, and you walk away with an extra $20 and 20 more customers.

            Point is...test. Don't just raise your prices because your first reaction is that it's the best way to cover an extra $20 of fixed costs.

            I tell you what I would do. I'd get my ducks in a row and nail down the lifetime value of a new WSO customer. Then I'd optimize the heck out of my offer so that it secured the maximum number of customers. Even if I had to lower my prices to do so.

            The logic is the same for increasing the price even HIGHER than $40.
            If the WSO fee was $80, then you can still lower your product prices, and "POTENTIALLY" gain more exposure because your WSO is their longer.

            I challenge everyone to request even going higher, & see what happens then.
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    • Profile picture of the author Marc_L
      Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

      People offering services by using accounts they have with other vendors should be completely cut from the forum in my opinion. If they don't own the site they have no business using it to make money which takes away from the original owners potential market. It is especially bad that Vendor A who, spent tons of time, and money to provide a service to have a member of that service turn around and be allowed to resell it on the same venue resulting in competing against the the vendor who actually owns the service. That's not good, I don't tolerate it and its against my TOS and I do find my users who do it and ban them immediately. Sorry kinda ended up ranting there a bit.
      If Vendor A makes it clear to his members of the TOS then this wouldn't happen. It isn't the WF job to police your TOS. Most people don't willingly break the TOS of any service they are a member of. And who knows, maybe if your service is so good that once someone tries it they become a member themselves. That could happen.
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      • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
        Originally Posted by Marc_L View Post

        If Vendor A makes it clear to his members of the TOS then this wouldn't happen. It isn't the WF job to police your TOS. Most people don't willingly break the TOS of any service they are a member of. And who knows, maybe if your service is so good that once someone tries it they become a member themselves. That could happen.

        But they do make it their business to police other websites TOS.
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        • Profile picture of the author Hanz
          Those people selling $7 products will now likely be increasing to $17. But that will still be a "special offer not found elsewhere" so who can really complain?:p All that happens is you get the same amount of buyers and end up with less profit. The WSO Forum will move just as fast as it always did. And bad products will still be bad products. Nothing will change on that end.
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      • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
        Marc,

        Despite how clear or not clear a TOS is or even If I allowed a user to resell it wouldn't still in my opinion and understanding of rule 8 on the wso forum be allowed.

        I'm not just looking at it from my perspective. Why does rule 8 say no services may be offered unless you "OWN the SITE" your offing services for.

        I wonder why Alan instituted that rule.

        You might be shocked how many users I have found reselling my services on the very same forums, more then you'd think. Many I am sure don't give it a second thought, they only care to make as much money as they can with a product they don't own, have no control over, didn't invest time and money in, and are now directly competing for the very same new users I am. Somehow that does not bode well with me and I am sure it wouldn't bode well with any one else who has taken the time and effort to provide something.

        Another thought I had should be that the cost of entry for having a WSO could be higher and then the daily bumping could stay where its at.

        Maybe $200 dollar fee for registering a WSO, then the daily bumping could stay where it is, or something like that.


        PS: I bumped my WSO 6 hours ago and its now a measly 12 spots from the bottom. Time will only tell if the price increase will slow down the bumping or not.


        Originally Posted by Marc_L View Post

        If Vendor A makes it clear to his members of the TOS then this wouldn't happen. It isn't the WF job to police your TOS. Most people don't willingly break the TOS of any service they are a member of. And who knows, maybe if your service is so good that once someone tries it they become a member themselves. That could happen.
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  • Profile picture of the author Niteprowler
    The only effect will be that the price for buying WSO's will rise too. It seems that where there used to be plenty of $ 10 and $ 12 WSO's that now $ 17/27/37 seem to be the norm. The "SO" portion of WSO's seems to be forgotten by many who see the WSO as the means to a quick buck without the thought of giving back to the community.

    Not that I expect much else these days.... but there are many Warriors who still offer a great deal on their WSO's and really deliver.... and many who don't.
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  • Profile picture of the author KarlWarren
    Originally Posted by Chris Kent View Post

    I think this will hurt the little guys a lot.

    The guys with plenty of money and reputation won't even notice the price increase.
    The little guys need to stop thinking like little guys though, and realise that the money is OUT there waiting for them to claim it.

    It's not as hard as people want to believe it is.

    Most of the little guys just have to actually DO something instead of hoping that things will come to them - they have to take the fight to their target market.
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Voss
    First, I am glad that Allen did not make an announcement that this was going to occur. I fully believe that this would have resulted in a MASSIVE flood of bumps and posts. The net result would have been a lot of wasted cash, because several people would have been on page 1 one moment and pushed out the next.

    There is an option of the person who is on the fence about whether or not they should post a WSO, because they are not sure if they will cover the $40 price.

    Go ahead and make your WSO offer, but place it on the classified ad portion of the forum. Then place the link to that in your sig file and start contributing like crazy to the forum.

    If you minimally price your offer at the very low end of $7, then you only need to make 6 sales before you have earned enough to cover the WSO cost. Then invest that amount and post the WSO.

    The best part about that is by the time you do this, you will find that you have a good group of testimonials for the offer.

    -Scott Voss
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  • Profile picture of the author Lance K
    Originally Posted by Chris Kent View Post

    I think this will hurt the little guys a lot.
    I'm sorry, but I just can't get behind this line of thinking.

    You're only a "little guy" (or gal) if you think you are.

    If you have a good offer, the increase to $40 won't affect a "little guy" any differently than the "guys with plenty of money and reputation". It's not like you're running a full page magazine ad and the price just went from $15,000 to $30,000.

    It's $40. And your ad gets put in front of thousands of people looking to buy. They don't just happen across your ad while reading the current issue's spin on "7 easy steps to 6 pack abs". These are people that fit a certain demographic and psychographic that come to a specific forum looking to spend money on specific types of products and services.

    If you don't have an offer capable of generating a positive ROI in a situation like that, you're a "little guy" because of your mindset rather than your bank account balance.
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  • Profile picture of the author russells
    It'll certainly cut some of the crap going through!
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  • Profile picture of the author DogScout
    I don't sell there and rarely buy, so not really a real consideration for me personally... :rolleyes:

    My take is if some of the money were used to 'check' at least new people that do not already have a rep's 1st 1-3 WSOs, that might be the solution to the 'crappy WSO' problem. Of course, people that have a history of good WSOs do not need to be checked.

    Otherwise, if you think about it, $40 is not an outrageous amount for what you are getting. If you were not selling on this forum, you'd likely be spending 10+ times that in time and/or money marketing a sales page.:confused:

    Someone mentioned Allen's income would go from $900,000 a year to 1.8 million on that one board; his income is really not a factor, IMHO. He is allowed (in America) to make as much as he possibly can. That is just a reality and I do not think anyone, with an ounce of sense, can defend that he ought not to be making as much as he can.

    My ½ a cent

    Mark
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  • Profile picture of the author templarjustice
    Ya know, I'm reading about all this "good" and "I'm glad", and this is done for a reason stuff. Yes, it can possibly be a good thing.

    However, step out of your shoes for a moment. Most of the people make the "I'm glad" comments, and "it should be more" statements, are from the United States! Payments are made in U.S dollars. $40 U.S. in some countries will be $80 in comparison in their currency.

    So the question becomes, are the people creating craptacular WSO's in foreign countries?

    The only thing an increase in price will do is: 1.) Raise product prices, and 2.)Potentially raise quality.

    Instead of text based Ebooks, we'll have some with graphics.
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    • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
      Originally Posted by templarjustice View Post

      Ya know, I'm reading about all this "good" and "I'm glad", and this is done for a reason stuff. Yes, it can possibly be a good thing.

      However, step out of your shoes for a moment. Most of the people make the "I'm glad" comments, and "it should be more" statements, are from the United States! Payments are made in U.S dollars. $40 U.S. in some countries will be $80 in comparison in their currency.

      So the question becomes, are the people creating craptacular WSO's in foreign countries?

      The only thing an increase in price will do is: 1.) Raise product prices, and 2.)Potentially raise quality.

      Instead of text based Ebooks, we'll have some with graphics.
      Yeah but those Americans that bought your product at $20 were, and still are, equal to $40 wherever you are.
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    • Profile picture of the author Elmer Hurlstone
      Originally Posted by templarjustice View Post

      ...However, step out of your shoes for a moment. Most of the people make the "I'm glad" comments, and "it should be more" statements, are from the United States! Payments are made in U.S dollars. $40 U.S. in some countries will be $80 in comparison in their currency....
      Currency conversion is irrelevant. Regardless of where one is from the cost to list a WSO has doubled. Period.

      Elmer
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  • I'm a little depressed about this move.
    Double the price is a bad move, made only to rush up mor emoney I think.
    The problem is Warrior Forum has no competition at all, and the next month can double it to $80.

    By the other side, we will stay on page 1 for longer, because we will never see the newbies trying to see $5 reports or make a try.
    And that's a good thing.

    We will see in a few weeks if this move is made with care or not.
    But I think the boys at WF have took their time to decide and fully evaluate positive and negative issues of their action.

    I know only that is difficult to recover $40, and especially the Bumps are gone up too much.
    The prices will go up, and I think they will be doubled as well, and this is a bad things for customers but good for sellers.

    It's a bad day, also because that was at all unexpected and I'm not prepared and a little bit confused.

    Think people, think...
    Only the time can give us a solution.

    See you soon,
    Alessandro Zamboni
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    • Profile picture of the author SGTech
      I don't see the problem with a price increase but 100% seems a little much. I could see going from $20 to $30. Hopefully it will cut down on the clutter but somehow I doubt it. I doubt this will affect people adversely. If your WSO is $27, all that means is that you have to sell 2 copies instead of 1 to pay for your WSO listing.
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    • Profile picture of the author Louise Green
      Originally Posted by Alessandro Zamboni View Post

      The problem is Warrior Forum has no competition at all, and the next month can double it to $80.
      The WF has plenty of competition and most of them allow you to post offers for free.

      I think if the WSO costs too much for people, there's always PPC.. which can end up costing A LOT more than $40 for the same amount of leads.. give that a try for a laugh.
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  • Profile picture of the author jedediahd
    I only skimmed the thread, but want to put in my 2 cents about this, sorry if any of this is a repeat. I feel like eliminating the crap would be great, the make xxxx in 1 day by eating bananas crap has to go, but you want to know the only real way to eliminate it? Its not making WSO's $200, its to stop consuming it. Stop buying crap after you have read 5,000 threads about how there is not magic button or system, stop falling prey to sleazy sales tactics, your not going to make 9k in 7 days watching over his or her shoulder. The other thing I want to bring up is how much is a small classified ad in a niche magazine or periodical? When you compare costs, $40 may seem great, ot it may seem outrageous, but you have to compare. Sure go sell on DP or other places, deal with everyone asking for review copies and others saying untrue negative crap about something you are selling. I think the $40 wso gives some nice protection of staying within the community.
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  • Profile picture of the author Brad Gosse
    I run a ton of WSO's and I welcome this and any future price increases. I imagine the exposure on page 1 will increase.
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  • Profile picture of the author templarjustice
    What really needs to be done is ADD some more Moderators to the payroll!
    Change can come from actual work vs. automation too.
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  • Profile picture of the author admin
    Administrator
    I haven't read this whole thread yet but I have to make a point many here seem to be missing or simply not know about.

    People on the Internet are incredibly spoiled. I started out offline, in classifieds ads. Try your hand at making money with those in the back of magazines and then come back here to the WSO section and see the difference.

    The fact is, $20 is so cheap that people don't even have to try. They don't even to learn basic copywriting skills. They don't have to do much more than spend an evening writing up some junk and throwing it up there.

    Please, do me a favor and give offline classifieds a shot. I can tell you now that 99% of the people who make money online right now would fail offline. Probably more...

    Even at $40 the truth is it's still too cheap for the amount of traffic that comes through here. If I was someone out to truly squeeze every dime out of a site possible things would be far different than they are right now, trust me on that.

    Allen
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by admin View Post

      I haven't read this whole thread yet but I have to make a point many here seem to be missing or simply not know about.

      People on the Internet are incredibly spoiled. I started out offline, in classifieds ads. Try your hand at making money with those in the back of magazines and then come back here to the WSO section and see the difference.

      The fact is, $20 is so cheap that people don't even have to try. They don't even to learn basic copywriting skills. They don't have to do much more than spend an evening writing up some junk and throwing it up there.

      Please, do me a favor a give offline classifieds a shot. I can tell you now that 99% of the people who make money online right now would fail offline. Probably more...

      Even at $40 the truth is it's still too cheap for the amount of traffic that comes through here. If I was someone out to truly squeeze every dime out of a site possible things would be far different than they are right now, trust me on that.

      Allen
      It's posts like this that make me wish there were a way to click the Thanks button more than once.

      I also have to apologize. While I have mentioned a few positives, I have already spent too much time considering the potentially negative aspects of this change.

      What separates the failures from the successful? I don't know for sure, but if it's a measly $20 then something's wrong.

      All the best,
      Michael
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      • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
        That's so true, Michael. I know that I have no one to blame but myself for not setting up a decent funnel and listbuilding system to begin with. I'm not happy with the increase right now but I understand why Allen did it and I hope it does what he intends. And I know that it's my own fault for not having set my business up properly before now...lol.

        Tina
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    • Profile picture of the author Maddi
      Originally Posted by admin View Post

      I haven't read this whole thread yet but I have to make a point many here seem to be missing or simply not know about.

      People on the Internet are incredibly spoiled. I started out offline, in classifieds ads. Try your hand at making money with those in the back of magazines and then come back here to the WSO section and see the difference.

      The fact is, $20 is so cheap that people don't even have to try. They don't even to learn basic copywriting skills. They don't have to do much more than spend an evening writing up some junk and throwing it up there.

      Please, do me a favor a give offline classifieds a shot. I can tell you now that 99% of the people who make money online right now would fail offline. Probably more...

      Even at $40 the truth is it's still too cheap for the amount of traffic that comes through here. If I was someone out to truly squeeze every dime out of a site possible things would be far different than they are right now, trust me on that.

      Allen
      Yup, agreed. had to constantly worry about making enough $50-70 sales to break even when advertising costs on the low started from $300 for 5 days in a very tiny space with lots of competition on a not so popular newspaper with no more than 5 lines to write copy.

      Wish there was a Beer emoticon to pass you on this one. The entry point is still too low.

      I just wish it works out for the better for people who are starting to do Warrior Special Offers and not turn them off, only give them enough drive and boost to provide quality offers at reasonable prices and not try to make a quick buck.

      Maddi
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by admin View Post

      I haven't read this whole thread yet but I have to make a point many here seem to be missing or simply not know about.

      People on the Internet are incredibly spoiled. I started out offline, in classifieds ads. Try your hand at making money with those in the back of magazines and then come back here to the WSO section and see the difference.

      The fact is, $20 is so cheap that people don't even have to try. They don't even to learn basic copywriting skills. They don't have to do much more than spend an evening writing up some junk and throwing it up there.

      Please, do me a favor and give offline classifieds a shot. I can tell you now that 99% of the people who make money online right now would fail offline. Probably more...

      Even at $40 the truth is it's still too cheap for the amount of traffic that comes through here. If I was someone out to truly squeeze every dime out of a site possible things would be far different than they are right now, trust me on that.

      Allen
      Since Allen put it that way... I retract all my skepticism.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andy Fletcher
    My goodness there's a lot of entitlement complex going on in this thread.

    Wake up everyone. This forum doesn't owe you anything.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ken Strong
      Originally Posted by Andy Fletcher View Post

      My goodness there's a lot of entitlement complex going on in this thread.

      Wake up everyone. This forum doesn't owe you anything.
      As my daughter would say: "Ba-ba! Binky!"
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    • Profile picture of the author Simon Ashari
      Originally Posted by Andy Fletcher View Post

      My goodness there's a lot of entitlement complex going on in this thread.

      Wake up everyone. This forum doesn't owe you anything.
      Bingo. I have no problem with Alan making as much money as possible.

      My thoughts on this move:

      1) This will not reduce the amount of wso's by half ($40 is still a bargain)

      2) It will (unfortunately) not eliminate all the rubbish in that forum

      3) I believe that a further price increase would benefit 2 types of people. It would benefit people with good wso's and it would benefit those buying them.

      My thoughts, but it is only the thoughts of one person that counts in this topic.


      regards

      -Simon
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  • Profile picture of the author jkmg
    I think if you look at the effects mathematically you will gain better insight into the effects. For example, If the majority of the people believe it will slow down the thread then what is the natural progression?...Bump your thread at the optimal time. Now if only 30 of us believe that is at 5:00PM on Tuesday, then guess what? You just spent $40 to be potentially number 30 on page 1 in a matter of minutes. In other words, the problem is not solved, and that theory is disproven.

    Now...

    Let's say the majority of people think it will change nothing. What is the natural progression then? Do the SAME thing you have always done and the speed of the thread remains relatively the same. No change.

    I can tell you from a personal point of view, I will no longer be bumping my thread. I refuse to sell to 300+ people at a great price and then jack it up because I have to make 3x as many sales to cover the cost. That is just bad business IMHO (Not bad in the real world, but definitely bad for a WSO that explicitly states the price MUST be lower than what the buyer can get elsewhere. One of the fundamental driving principals of a WSO IS the cost!

    $7 is a common bargain for a WSO, and instead of 3 sales to cover the cost it now requires 6. Six sales for a brand new WSO from an unknown marketer is a daunting task. And it's not just 6 sales. It's 6 sales every day or every other day (or every third day). That only comes easy to handful of marketers.

    Now before some of you go off the deep end about "well, create a high quality product and develop a good reputation", remember this:

    The majority of the most successful marketers of WSO's developed that reputation as a result of free posting. Testing the waters was easy and FREE. That is not even remotely an option for many now. The caveat to this is the majority of brand new WSO's will likely be the products of established and reputable marketers which will offer "them" free reign over cost.

    I have found a lot of great stuff at $7 in the past, but the important thing to note here is that I found it BECAUSE it was $7. Not everyone can be a great copywriter, and regardless of how good a product is, the message isn't always going to be conveyed clearly. Some of you are outstanding marketers, the rest of us may not be. But that is of no consequence to the quality of products being marketed.

    I agree that $40 is extremely unappealing to a new marketer who has NO idea how their product will perform.

    I also agree that driving traffic from alternate sources is a great solution.

    Now after reading the entire thread I must say that the "surprise" of the price increase was the only way to go with this.

    As an individual living on a fixed (and very humble) income, this affects me significantly, notwithstanding the fact I never tried to scam anyone here.

    Maybe a better solution may have been a requirement to submit the actual product for evaluation prior to posting the WSO, I don't know.

    Just my 2 1/2 cents! :-)

    John
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    Personally, I don't think that the price of entry will have any effect on quality. Some of my favorite gems from the WSO section came from some very poorly written headlines. The only way we're going to weed out bad players is to have more people get involved in leaving feedback after a purchase.
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  • Profile picture of the author templarjustice
    Just let's be clear here:
    1. WSO's - $40
    2. WSO Bumps - $40
    3. Classified (currently at $40) -- but that will be fixed.
    4. Products & Services - $40 ??
    5. Warriors for hire -- $40??

    Not sure on 4 & 5 - anyone can clear that up?
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    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
      Originally Posted by templarjustice View Post

      Just let's be clear here:
      1. WSO's - $40
      2. WSO Bumps - $40
      3. Classified (currently at $40) -- but that will be fixed.
      4. Products & Services - $40 ??
      5. Warriors for hire -- $40??

      Not sure on 4 & 5 - anyone can clear that up?
      Allen said it is not for the other sections - just the WSO section. That was an error.

      Tina
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      • Profile picture of the author templarjustice
        Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises View Post

        Allen said it is not for the other sections - just the WSO section. That was an error.

        Tina

        Ahh, that makes more sense then. I didn't see where it was said.
        Are you sure, cause I thought the error was just for the Classifieds?
        I'm trying to locate where he stated this.

        But yeah, then if this is the case, then it validates my points I was making.

        Thanks Tina
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  • Profile picture of the author cweber
    The price should not be a problem if it does actually manage to weed out any of the crap. If it does, great, I would like to pay $40 to have my wso stay on the first page for longer when I launch my article writing wso.
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  • Profile picture of the author Caiden
    Just posted a WSO and noticed the change. Came to the main forum to rant and saw this thread. I've read it.....I get it.....I'm over it!

    Caiden
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  • It's just made it more expensive (doubled the price) for lead generation.

    Those people starting out, or with a legit service trying to make a name for themselves will find it too expensive, unless they learn or hire someone expert at copywriting to make them sales to cover the cost.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kim Standerline
    lol I bet this thread goes on for pages.

    Where do I stand in this, well lets put it this way, I stopped posting WSO's months ago because I just couldn't see the point. It got lost very quickly amongst the crap.

    I looked in there earlier today and clicked away because it was suh a mess. I'll probably start using it again now it's getting cleaned up.

    I used to use the WSO forum mainly to test out my stuff and to give warriors a decent price on articles and whatever else I was selling, I've never used it as a main source of income and to be honest if you're doing so, then you're mad.

    I mentioned in a previous thread on this topic, and I think its been said on this thread also, where else could you put your product in front of so many laser targeted prospects for such a small amount of money. (A definite entitlement mentality in this place)..

    Count yourself lucky the boss didn't raise the price any higher. (I'd certainly be ok with it if he did)

    Kim
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  • Profile picture of the author templarjustice
    In the end, it will definitely hurt some of the business models in various niches.
    Again, you look at a graphic designer vs. a software developer.

    There is a complete difference in production in both categories. I'm not just talking about WSO's here -- I'm talking about each pay for section -- particularly for example SITES FOR SALE section.

    That can be considered like a WSO as well, based on the same service level being provided. So this is why some people definitely have a valid & legitimate disagreement with a high price increase. Again, if any of the stated logic was true, than why not make it $80 or even $100? If this is about length of exposure as one issue.
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    • Profile picture of the author KarlWarren
      Originally Posted by templarjustice View Post

      In the end, it will definitely hurt some of the business models in various niches. Again, you look at a graphic designer vs. a software developer.
      Not quite... (re: graphic designers)

      I charge 3x as much as some of the people who advertise in the WSO section and I get my fee. When I stopped relying on WSO for my income, my income tripled in a short space of time - because I actually had to THINK and learn to market better. I made a conscious effort to get out of my comfort zone.

      It's really time for a lot of people to get out of their bubble - the WSO comfort blanket isn't a viable business model for a long term business.

      You can see how important the WSO section is for a lot of people... I wonder how many of those will be sitting, miserable at a desk in a year's time because they didn't realise there's more to earning online and develop the skills necessary to sustain their income.
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  • Profile picture of the author warriorzX
    This is so funny!
    Do I take this to mean that you guys didn't actually:
    "Make a $1M in three days selling octopus sweat" or
    "receive $38k daily from frying rats spleens"
    WSO price up is good. Means the quality will improve.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Pikachoo View Post

      This is so funny!
      Do I take this to mean that you guys didn't actually:
      "Make a $1M in three days selling octopus sweat" or
      "receive $38k daily from frying rats spleens"
      WSO price up is good. Means the quality will improve.
      Somehow I doubt this. This is exactly what many buyers are actually looking for. They want the outrageous promises of instant wealth or instant top Google rankings, etc.

      I've never been comfortable with that type of business model. My core business is service based ... creating websites. There's a lot of work involved and a lot of customer service involved.

      Writers, designers, site builders ... the people who don't resort to the incredible headlines that don't deliver on their promise are the ones who will be affected most.

      I have a lot of niche sites that I offer on the WF very cheaply. I've created a separate listing for each one, and there's quite a few. I used to bump 3 at a time of different niches. I found that to be an effective way to get some sales, but nothing like the WSOs with incredible headlines that go flying off the shelves. Not even close.

      I'm lucky in that I've been building a great list for awhile now. It's not huge, but it's responsive.

      In addition, there's a lot in the Complete Sites for Sale section that are selling one site to one person for a fixed price. Often a pretty low price. These are not the type of listings that I have seen as problematic and I didn't even think Complete Sites for Sale was part of the WSO section. It's listed in the Warriors Products and Services section ... not the WSO section.
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  • Profile picture of the author shabit87
    I'm thinking a couple of things.
    1. I HOPE to see marketers actually making money sharing how they can afford to post and bump there WSOs LOL just kidding.

    2. Warriors are going to have to be more creative in their approach to get buyers. How can you still be the $7 seller and still rack up? How can you remain the same despite the changes around you. Its possible, and we'll find out who can do it and who can't.

    3. With a higher price tags, you'll have less posting and bumps which should mean a longer life on page one...gives people a chance to make some cash. Woohoo!

    4. People will think twice before putting junk up, because everyone who comments will have a higher chance of being seen, so if you get a lot of comments saying your stuff is junk more people will see and it'll crush your credibility. Think twice about putting up junk.

    Just some thoughts, but who knows what will come of this change. Hopefully nothing but good :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
    make it $50 and pay a wso mod or two a few $ to weed out the crap while the update / changes are in the water.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andy Fletcher
    If you think increasing the price from $20 to $40 will halve the number of posts/bumps then you are saying that 50% of people posting/bumping are selling > $20 and < $40 on each post/bump.

    If you think increasing the price from $20 to $40 will double the price of the item for sale I suggest you find a text book and look up "fixed vs variable costs".
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Originally Posted by Pikachoo View Post

    WSO price up is good. Means the quality will improve.
    Maybe. Might also just mean you'll pay a little more for the same old crap.

    I hope Allen is correct that this will help weed out the garbage, but it could be nothing more than inflation. Just like businesses pass on the cost of higher taxes to consumers, junk peddlers might pass on the cost of higher WSO fees to buyers.

    Or maybe they'll just take the hit. If a crap WSO sells for $20 and it sells a modest 30 copies, that's $600. If he paid $20 to make that $600 he clears $580. If he pays $40 he clears $560. I don't see that as being a big hindrance myself, but Allen has information I don't have access to, so like I said, I hope he's right about it weeding out the junk.

    I just hope it doesn't clear out so many marginal sellers that the percentage of crap actually increases.

    PS - If it does clear out the crap, I think I'll post a new WSO.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      If a crap WSO sells for $20 and it sells a modest 30 copies, that's $600. If he paid $20 to make that $600 he clears $580. If he pays $40 he clears $560. I don't see that as being a big hindrance myself
      This was how I instinctively looked at it, myself, I must say.

      I'm not quite living on the same planet as the people commenting that it's "doubled" and/or that it's "unkind to the little guy".

      The $20 "extra" should be compared not with the original $20 charge but with the $xxx or $xxxx receipts, surely? :confused:

      I've never done a WSO so I'm not entitled to an opinion. I'll rephrase that: I've never done a WSO so I'm entirely objective and impartial and more entitled to an opinion than many. Reading the thread quickly, my own instinctive feelings were to agree with the people suggesting $100 as an appropriate price for advertising a WSO. And it that's too much, maybe $75. Not that it's any of our damn business to vote on it in the first place!
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  • Profile picture of the author Imran Naseem
    Banned
    $40 or $50? Bring it on.

    I just realised that the price was raised today. Less Junk more quality WSOs
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    • Profile picture of the author Hanz
      Originally Posted by Imran Naseem View Post

      $40 or $50? Bring it on.

      I just realised that the price was raised today. Less Junk more quality WSOs
      But how do you figure that Naseem? Do you think scammers have less money to spend on marketing junk WSOs? Junk is going to pollute the WSO forum no matter what. You can't stop it. All marketers are promoting their products to the very same customers. This hurts the good sellers as well.
      Just my 2 cents.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
      Originally Posted by Imran Naseem View Post

      By raising the price he is going to cut out all the junk and I applaud his efforts for doing that.
      Imran:

      I personally don't think that's going to happen. I certainly don't mind the price increase, as I've said I never run a WSO seeking profit on the WSO itself anyhow. But I suspect the move will cut down on SOME junk, but certainly not all of it.
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  • Profile picture of the author imon32red
    I think it's a great idea. It will keep more of the crap out. If you are really worried about recouping that $20, your WSO probably needs some work.
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    I'm not selling anything.
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    • Profile picture of the author Hanz
      Originally Posted by imon32red View Post

      I think it's a great idea. It will keep more of the crap out. If you are really worried about recouping that $20, your WSO probably needs some work.
      Most marketers made their money selling crap. That's how it all began. Furthermore, those who bought products and voiced their displeasure often had their comments deleted so the seller could continue marketing their rubbish. The WSO will continue to be a haven for a lot of junk. Nothing will stop that. The newbies will not know any better either. They want quick results and quick money. And every crap WSO with appealing sales copy promising them the world will make sales. The price increase does nothing.
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    • Profile picture of the author Lance K
      Originally Posted by imon32red View Post

      I think it's a great idea. It will keep more of the crap out.
      Time will tell.

      Anyway, this WSO listing fee increase should serve notice to anyone who has been putting off getting a War Room membership. Someday Allen may come to his senses and raise the membership fee to $97.
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      "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
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      • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
        Originally Posted by Jesse Kemmerer View Post

        This whole situation kind of reminds me of governmental
        intervention in free markets... usually when the government
        (or any other outside force) interferes with the natural price
        of a good being sold, no good comes from it.
        This doesn't apply in this situation. This isn't a free market - it's Allen's market. The only "natural price" is what he decides it will be.

        Tina
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        There is something else folks need to keep in mind (and I'm just playing
        devil's advocate here) it's not just $40 for the WSO.

        If you're new to the forum, to even run a WSO, you have to join the War
        Room, which is $37.

        So your first WSO costs you $77.

        If you're a programmer, selling a $27 script (normal price) at $7 because
        you really want to make a great offer to Warriors (after all, isn't that what
        the WSO forum is supposed to be about?) then you're going to need 11
        sales just to break even.

        And please don't jump all over me saying if you can't make 11 sales of
        a $7 script you don't belong being a marketer.

        Remember, this person isn't a marketer. They're not teaching you how to
        make umpteen million dollars a year.

        They have a simple script that will help you with an aspect of your
        business.

        These type of products tend to be low profile relatively speaking versus
        the "make a million overnight" stuff. If you think I'm kidding, somebody
        show my a script by somebody other than a long standing member with
        a list the size of Texas that is making a killing at the WSO forum.

        For some markets (and this is just a statement of fact) the WSO forum
        is NOT the best place to promote as it is. And with an increased cost, it
        becomes even less desirable.

        Look, I know what sells. And the folks doing this a while know what sells
        and know how to maximize their return using this forum.

        We're called marketers folks.

        Problem is, not everybody using that forum is a marketer.

        We seem to forget that.

        Just my 2 cents on the subject.
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        • Profile picture of the author Imran Naseem
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

          There is something else folks need to keep in mind (and I'm just playing
          devil's advocate here) it's not just $40 for the WSO.

          If you're new to the forum, to even run a WSO, you have to join the War
          Room, which is $37.

          So your first WSO costs you $77.

          If you're a programmer, selling a $27 script (normal price) at $7 because
          you really want to make a great offer to Warriors (after all, isn't that what
          the WSO forum is supposed to be about?) then you're going to need 11
          sales just to break even.

          And please don't jump all over me saying if you can't make 11 sales of
          a $7 script you don't belong being a marketer.

          Remember, this person isn't a marketer. They're not teaching you how to
          make umpteen million dollars a year.

          They have a simple script that will help you with an aspect of your
          business.

          These type of products tend to be low profile relatively speaking versus
          the "make a million overnight" stuff. If you think I'm kidding, somebody
          show my a script by somebody other than a long standing member with
          a list the size of Texas that is making a killing at the WSO forum.

          For some markets (and this is just a statement of fact) the WSO forum
          is NOT the best place to promote as it is. And with an increased cost, it
          becomes even less desirable.

          Look, I know what sells. And the folks doing this a while know what sells
          and know how to maximize their return using this forum.

          We're called marketers folks.

          Problem is, not everybody using that forum is a marketer.

          We seem to forget that.

          Just my 2 cents on the subject.
          Steven I missed you.

          Love reading your posts...I agree with you on this one.

          $40 is nothing if you are confident then I do not see why $40 is an issue.
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        • Profile picture of the author Lance K
          True, some may say that they just want to give back and it isn't about the money.

          But if you're not willing to give back because you risk possibly losing up to $40 (or $77 if you're not yet a War Room member), then I contend that your giving back is about the money.

          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

          There is something else folks need to keep in mind (and I'm just playing
          devil's advocate here) it's not just $40 for the WSO.

          If you're new to the forum, to even run a WSO, you have to join the War
          Room, which is $37.

          So your first WSO costs you $77.

          If you're a programmer, selling a $27 script (normal price) at $7 because
          you really want to make a great offer to Warriors (after all, isn't that what
          the WSO forum is supposed to be about?) then you're going to need 11
          sales just to break even.

          And please don't jump all over me saying if you can't make 11 sales of
          a $7 script you don't belong being a marketer.

          Remember, this person isn't a marketer. They're not teaching you how to
          make umpteen million dollars a year.

          They have a simple script that will help you with an aspect of your
          business.

          These type of products tend to be low profile relatively speaking versus
          the "make a million overnight" stuff. If you think I'm kidding, somebody
          show my a script by somebody other than a long standing member with
          a list the size of Texas that is making a killing at the WSO forum.

          For some markets (and this is just a statement of fact) the WSO forum
          is NOT the best place to promote as it is. And with an increased cost, it
          becomes even less desirable.

          Look, I know what sells. And the folks doing this a while know what sells
          and know how to maximize their return using this forum.

          We're called marketers folks.

          Problem is, not everybody using that forum is a marketer.

          We seem to forget that.

          Just my 2 cents on the subject.
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          "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
          ~ Zig Ziglar
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

            True, some may say that they just want to give back and it isn't about the money.

            But if you're not willing to give back because you risk possibly losing up to $40 (or $77 if you're not yet a War Room member), then I contend that your giving back is about the money.
            Lance, I think you misread what I meant, which is probably my fault.

            Giving back doesn't mean giving away.

            It doesn't mean, run a WSO of your product giving Warriors a great deal
            and coming away with less money than you started out with.

            That's not good business no matter how generous you are.

            My products are so ridiculously underpriced that it's a joke, not just here
            but out in the real world too.

            But I know how to market so I can make up for the low price in
            volume.

            A non marketer can't do that, certainly not in the example I gave above.

            So it's pointless for this person to come here with an offer. He might as
            well just take his $27 script to the outside world and sell it for $27.

            With the amount of marketing smarts he has (or lack thereof) he has
            just as much chance out there that he has in here...maybe even more so
            because he's selling at a higher price.

            Like I said, some things just aren't worth selling here.
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            • Profile picture of the author Lance K
              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post


              Like I said, some things just aren't worth selling here.
              I got ya loud and clear now and I agree.

              I think I was reading too much into your post.
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              • Profile picture of the author John Lenaghan
                Personally, I don't think having to pay $40 versus $20 is going to make much of a difference in the long run. A month from now (likely much less) things will probably be business as usual, with just as many WSOs and very few people complaining about the cost.

                Sure, it's going to hit some people harder than others, particularly newer people who may not have the copywriting skills or might be offering a service or product that isn't as "sexy". But I'm sure there are people who are hard pressed to come up with the $20 now too.

                I don't like the whole "if you can't make money on a $40 ad you shouldn't be selling that product" attitude though. People have to start somewhere, and not everyone has the marketing chops or a product that will generate attention because of the topic. Having a relatively cheap way to test the waters and learn from their mistakes is a great way to start, even if that start is only to learn what not to do next time.

                I know I learned a ton from my first WSO, and my second one was FAR more successful. If I had been planning to list it today and the price had jumped to $40 when I logged in, I might have thought twice. But if it had been $40 when I started planning it, that wouldn't have made a bit of difference to me.

                I'm sure once the "pain" of the price increase has dulled, most people won't really give it a second thought, other than maybe in a "remember the good old days" kind of way.

                John
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          • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
            40 bucks is still a really good deal - this coming from the cheap girl. :p


            To those who are all wiggy about the bumping thing - here's the deal.

            There is more than one way to get traffic to your offer - meaning it doesn't have to be on the front page to be effective. Yes, you get more exposure when it is there but it is not the only way.

            There is more than one type of shopper in the WSO's too. 99.9 percent of the time I go in searching for specific terms to find very specific things I really need for my business. This does nothing for those people who are on the front page.

            40 bucks is not a difficult amount of money to find or make. If you could hustle up 20, then you can certainly hustle up double that amount. Just do what ever you did to find the 20 bucks a second time. :p

            Many seem to forget - it is a privilege to be a member, a war room member, and to even be able to post WSO's in the first place.

            Anyway, this may sound harsh to some, but if you can't scrape up 40 to post and the 37 for the war room membership then I very likely won't want your offer as a WSO to begin with. There are other places to get in for cheaper or for free and work your way up to the WSO section.

            Here's an example - let's say you are selling a new method to make me some money. :rolleyes: If you can't use that method yourself to make the money to post the WSO then I don't want to see it.

            Let's say you made a script to help my website make more money. If you didn't use that script yourself to help you make money to post your WSO then I probably don't want it.

            And if you are down to your last 20 dollars and desperate to make some money, you should not be posting in here to get your broke ass out of trouble.

            Now if you are truly having a hardship and awaiting a heart transplant and were hoping to run a WSO to cover the medical bills then I am very sorry for you and hopefully have made some good business contacts and have some friends that will pitch in and help you out. If you have no friends or family then you likely won't be a very good marketer to begin with.

            If you need to post that WSO because it is on your bucket list, there are a bazillion FREE methods given on this very forum that are proven to make you 40 bucks or more.

            Now, I'm going to skip right over 100 for a posting and go to 1k. And this would slow down that front page so drastically that I'd be really gung ho to post an ad. lol
            Signature

            "May I have ten thousand marbles, please?"

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            • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
              Originally Posted by avenuegirl View Post

              If you have no friends or family then you likely won't be a very good marketer to begin with.
              I take it the Fuller Brush man used to visit your house when you were a kid, too...

              ~Bill

              j/k We actually bought stuff from that guy...
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              • Profile picture of the author Hanz
                Think this thread is falling on deaf ears. The decision has already been made and nothing's going to change. The WSO forum will remain the same, the only difference now is it's costing $40 to launch and bump. More money for the forum owner and less money for people already struggling in a sorry economy where jobs are scarce and are looking for opportunities online. Ah well. Moving on...
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                • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by Hanz View Post

                  Think this thread is falling on deaf ears. The decision has already been made and nothing's going to change. The WSO forum will remain the same, the only difference now is it's costing $40 to launch and bump. More money for the forum owner and less money for people already struggling in a sorry economy where jobs are scarce and are looking for opportunities online. Ah well. Moving on...
                  Why don't you give your products to the struggling people for free?

                  I am sure that will help them out greatly.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Taylor French
                    Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                    Why don't you give your products to the people struggling for free?

                    I am sure that will help them out greatly.
                    I don't know about Hanz, but I have been doing that some lately. In a niche market, I have given several free copies of my product out to people who wrote to me saying they really wanted it but couldn't afford it. It's digital. If they can't afford it anyway, it's not going to cost me anything to give it to them.

                    But that is my personal choice. I don't expect everyone to do it, obviously.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Hanz
                    Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                    Why don't you give your products to the struggling people for free?

                    I am sure that will help them out greatly.
                    Who says I don't, Tom?
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                    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
                      Originally Posted by Hanz View Post

                      Who says I don't, Tom?
                      Most of us do... from time to time at least.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Hanz
                        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

                        Most of us do... from time to time at least.
                        Yeah, willingly or not. Our products end up on other forums...for FREE! LOL!
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                    • Profile picture of the author DaveHughes
                      Someone may have posted this already...I read through the thread and didn't see it, but I probably missed it somewhere; as a result, I apologize in advance.

                      An offer's perceived value is at least partly attributable to its price.

                      Which would you perceive to have more value...a car being advertised in the classifieds of your local paper for sale at $500, or one at $5,000? The $500 car might perfectly suit your needs (and might be all you can afford), but most would automatically assume the $5,000 car was in better condition, etc.

                      If nothing else, the effect of this price increase (to me, anyway) will be to increase the perceived value of a WSO. Will this stop the junk offers? Not necessarily, but I think it will result in those that are serious about becoming marketers viewing a WSO as the opportunity it is, and therefore putting more time and effort into making a quality product.

                      Also, for the folks that say this will hurt the beginning marketer...I don't feel that it will, but I do think it will weed out some of those that aren't going to be successful anyway. I'm sorry, but if you can't figure out a way to make an extra $20 above what you were going to spend to post your first WSO, you might not be cut out for this. Just dabbling on the side, in the last week I have done the following:

                      - Sold an article on Constant Content, for which my "cut" was $18. (The buyer has since contacted me to ask if I would be willing to write at least two a week for that niche, and also asked if I would be willing to write articles on an ongoing basis in another niche.)

                      - Sold three services on Fiverr.com (each one took about two minutes of my time each) for a cut of $8.

                      By my count, that's $26 dollars I've put in my account in the last seven days, doing "fun" side projects. I'm not counting the various money I've made at other endevours...that's side-side money.

                      If anything, this results in the bar being raised a small amount...but not financially. This raises the "determination" and "creativity" bar for those thinking of jumping into the waters.

                      Need an extra $20 to "take action"? Then "take action" before you take the bigger step. The things you learn will only make you more successful in the long run.
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                • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
                  Originally Posted by Hanz View Post

                  The WSO forum will remain the same, the only difference now is it's costing $40 to launch and bump. More money for the forum owner and less money for people already struggling in a sorry economy where jobs are scarce and are looking for opportunities online.
                  That is probably one of the more galactically clueless statements in this whole thread. But it fits so well with the rest of your posts at least you can be considered consistant.

                  And I don't mean that in a bad way...

                  ~Bill
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                  • Profile picture of the author Hanz
                    Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

                    That is probably one of the more galactically clueless statements in this whole thread. But it fits so well with the rest of your posts at least you can be considered consistant.

                    And I don't mean that in a bad way...

                    ~Bill
                    No need to be clever, Bill.
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                • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
                  Originally Posted by Hanz View Post

                  Think this thread is falling on deaf ears. The decision has already been made and nothing's going to change. The WSO forum will remain the same, the only difference now is it's costing $40 to launch and bump. More money for the forum owner and less money for people already struggling in a sorry economy where jobs are scarce and are looking for opportunities online. Ah well. Moving on...

                  I don't buy this argument one bit. One thing about human beings is that we're extremely resourceful. I know of at least two dozen people who started their IM business with nothing but their wits, time, and skills. About half started out with content / article marketing. A couple of them started out with a $75 Adwords credit (not hard to get, just Google it). Many of them offered services by contributing in more than one forum.

                  One of the most successful IMers that I know contacted about a ten marketers who were having seminars and offered himself up as a volunteer when he first got startd. He scrimped and scraped for the gas to get him there and at that seminar he made enough contacts to get started.

                  If the WSO forum did not exist I guarantee you that people would figure out another way and/or vehicle to make it happen. It's not the only place or way to get started in this business.

                  RoD
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                  • Profile picture of the author Hanz
                    Originally Posted by Rod Cortez View Post

                    I don't buy this argument one bit. One thing about human beings is that we're extremely resourceful. I know of at least two dozen people who started their IM business with nothing but their wits, time, and skills. About half started out with content / article marketing. A couple of them started out with a $75 Adwords credit (not hard to get, just Google it). Many of them offered services by contributing in more than one forum.

                    One of the most successful IMers that I know contacted about a ten marketers who were having seminars and offered himself up as a volunteer when he first got startd. He scrimped and scraped for the gas to get him there and at that seminar he made enough contacts to get started.

                    If the WSO forum did not exist I guarantee you that people would figure out another way and/or vehicle to make it happen. It's not the only place or way to get started in this business.

                    RoD
                    I didn't even know the Warrior Forum even existed until fairly recently. It hasn't made a difference to me one way or another but merely just another avenue to post amongst like-minded people and waste even more time. But it's fun. I get to meet really funny people on here like Bill Farnham who's always good for a laugh! It's all worth it!
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                    • Profile picture of the author TimGross
                      Originally Posted by Hanz View Post

                      I didn't even know the Warrior Forum even existed until fairly recently. It hasn't made a difference to me one way or another but merely just another avenue to post amongst like-minded people and waste even more time.
                      Uh... Is that why you currently have three (3) WSO's advertised in your signature at the moment??
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                      • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                        Banned
                        Originally Posted by TimGross View Post

                        Uh... Is that why you currently have three (3) WSO's advertised in your signature at the moment??
                        Tim, why do you think he is posting mainly BS type posts in this thread. Nothing like getting his sig shown for posts like "I agree", "You should allow people to make money on your forum for free because the economy sucks".
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                        • Profile picture of the author Hanz
                          Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                          Tim, why do you think he is posting mainly BS type posts in this thread. Nothing like getting his sig shown for posts like "I agree", "You should allow people to make money on your forum for free because the economy sucks".
                          My apologies Thomas. It wasn't really my intention. Thanks for that.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Mario Brown
                            Okay, if you don't like the change and you think you can't deal with it, go ahead and read Who Moved My CheeseWho Moved My Cheese first.

                            Then, try to maximize what you get from your WSO's.

                            Practical tips:

                            1) Write good copy and don't listen to the people that say that hype or scarcity is bad - using these elements is good marketing.

                            If you can't write copy, head over to Clickbank and read the sales letters of some of the most popular products and mimic them, see where they have their sub headlines, where do they have their testimonials, what kind of story do they tell and so forth.

                            Also make sure to check their bonuses and their money back guarantee and what they use to generate scarcity.

                            Most importantly: Go ahead and read the book Influence Influence !!! ..and implement everything that you learn.

                            2) Don't post your WSO's to early, if you bump them in the morning they will be gone within 5 hours. They won't even stay on the top of the main page for 1-2 hours.

                            Bump them later, I like to bump mines around 8pm, that way they stay on the first page till the next day, I get a lot more bang for the money.

                            3) Reviews are now more important than ever !!! Make sure that you ask buyers for reviews, this is a MUST!

                            You need as much social proof as possible, ask within your WSO copy, within your confirmation email and when you follow up!

                            4) Make sure that you have a strong headline, and yes, do use hype!

                            Again, don't listen to people that hype is a bad thing. If you do so, you won't sell a lot of WSO's, and I'm saying this after having had more than 10 WSO's running, 90% of them being successful for me. (generating at list 1,5k on launch day and a lot more over time).

                            Do you want to know which are the ones that didn't sell? You got it, the ones in which I DID NOT use any hype.

                            Think about who you are marketing to, you are marketing to people that are hungry for quick results, they want to see big numbers and chase the dream. If you don't give this to them, you won't sell a lot of WSO's, that's at least my experience.

                            5) Now with the higher price, make sure that you have links within your product that refer to your other products and WSO's. Don't be overly aggressive, but make sure that you mention your other products in case that people want further education.

                            6) Offer an upsell at the point of purchase without being a jerk about it. You can offer e-mail coaching or video tutorials for people that want/need more hand holding.

                            7) Make sure that you follow up with quality emails, ensuring that you build a great relationship with your new customer. When I say quality emails, I mean that you should give them great tips and if possible additional information for free in your first 2-3 emails, before you start recommending something.

                            8) Be different. I everybody is selling ebooks, offer videos. If everybody is offering videos, offer webinars. And so forth. If everybody is using text in their copy, record a video of you and be different.

                            These are just a couple of tips of the top of my head, all based on real experience after launching many successful WSO's.

                            Implement these strategies and you'll make more money with your WSO's, your customers will be happy and they will buy again and again from you.

                            All the best,
                            Mario
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                            ‎"Success is waking up in the morning, whoever you are, however old or young, and bounding out of bed because there's something out there that you love to do, that you believe in, that you're good at -- something that's bigger than you are, and you can't hardly wait to get at it again today." Whit Hobbs

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                            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                              Banned
                              Originally Posted by Mario Brown View Post


                              1) Write good copy and don't listen to the people that say that hype or scarcity is bad - using these elements is good marketing.

                              4) Make sure that you have a strong headline, and yes, do use hype!

                              Think about who you are marketing to, you are marketing to people that are hungry for quick results, they want to see big numbers and chase the dream. If you don't give this to them, you won't sell a lot of WSO's, that's at least my experience.

                              Implement these strategies and you'll make more money with your WSO's, your customers will be happy and they will buy again and again from you.

                              All the best,
                              Mario
                              Do your customers actually achieve the "big numbers" and if not, are they still happy?
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                              • Profile picture of the author Mario Brown
                                Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                Do your customers actually achieve the "big numbers" and if not, are they still happy?
                                That's a very good question and the answer is yes and now.

                                Roughly 95% of the people don't achieve the numbers, or in other words, out of 100 people only five take action, and I'm being very positive here.

                                Example: Over a year ago I launched a WSO about launching WSO's (yep I know) and over the time I made over 700 sales. In the copy I used a video showing my WSO Pro statistics and I used the real numbers, which where impressive in my opinion, in my headline.

                                Out of these 700 buyers I know of exactly 3 that actually took action. I know of other Warriors who implemented some of the tips, but I don't know their numbers.

                                They 3 buyers were proactive and they also asked me for feedback, they implemented everything I told them about and two of them had very successful WSO's, even surpassing my numbers. The other person had a 'okay' WSO, he expected more.

                                So what I'm basically saying is what you already know, most people unfortunately don't actually implement.

                                I have the same problem in the offline niche, one of the biggest problems with my offline clients is actually compliance. I tell them what to do and why to do it, but they're just too 'busy' to actually implement the changes.

                                Go figure.

                                Let me know if you have further questions.

                                All the best,
                                Mario

                                p.s. When I say 'use hype', I don't want people to lie or anything like that, but they should definitely hype up their results and make them sound good, just good marketing.
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                                ‎"Success is waking up in the morning, whoever you are, however old or young, and bounding out of bed because there's something out there that you love to do, that you believe in, that you're good at -- something that's bigger than you are, and you can't hardly wait to get at it again today." Whit Hobbs

                                Visit My Website: http://www.mariobrown.net/

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                      • Profile picture of the author Hanz
                        Originally Posted by TimGross View Post

                        Uh... Is that why you currently have three (3) WSO's advertised in your signature at the moment??
                        LOL! I knew somebody would finally say it. Thanks Tim! What I mean is that even though I do have WSOs running, as one senior member pointed out a month back, the Warrior Forum should not be the be-all/end-all of one's online business or whatever it is they do to make a full-time or part-time income online.
                        Besides, these WSOs I have running are more benefit to the buyer than to myself considering the rights that come with it. It's all about giving!
                        It doesn't even pay for my weekly gas to be honest but it does help reputation which is key for me as I attempt to grow and move on to bigger and better things over time. I didn't truly realize the full potential of the WSO forum until reading and taking note of how people were constructing their sales funnels.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

        Anyway, this WSO listing fee increase should serve notice to anyone who has been putting off getting a War Room membership. Someday Allen may come to his senses and raise the membership fee to $97.
        ...or change it to a recurring monthly fee.


        Originally Posted by Lauryn View Post

        If your product is solid, then $40 is nothing.
        That's not necessarily true, Lauryn. Skill in copywriting is more important than product quality when it comes to generating those first sales. Someone can have an absolutely fantastic product and be a really lousy copywriter and not sell a thing.
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        • Profile picture of the author Lauryn
          Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

          ...or change it to a recurring monthly fee.




          That's not necessarily true, Lauryn. Skill in copywriting is more important than product quality when it comes to generating those first sales. Someone can have an absolutely fantastic product and be a really lousy copywriter and not sell a thing.
          Dennis,

          I understand what you're saying, but I think I might not have been clear. For the record, I agree with you there, but I think that's just a matter of someone possibly having to outsource his copy. I am an editor, not the "best editor in the world," but I have worked with a national magazine and I do want to improve my skills. I've seen books with great content that had crap writing, and crap content books with excellent writing.

          For my original post, I need to clarify that "crap" products with "crap" information, whether it's presented with "crap copy writing" and "crap cover" or whether it's "crap information" with "platinum packaging."

          For the prices of many WSOs, they are either low enough to sell enough to make make the $20-$40 investment, or they are priced high enough to pay for the cost of WSO ad in just one purchase.

          As business people, or aspiring business people, $40 should just be factored in as a cost of investment for business marketing and sales. A budget should also include copywriting, editing, peer review, marketing, and other related services to make sure the copy is square.

          At the end of the day, $40 is an investment, whether you make it back or not. You'll either revise the copy or invest in better copy for sales, or you'll make your money back. But to complain about $40 is futile, especially when the people who claim to make $5963.82 per week with this super top secret method that puts Google in a chokehold are obviously supposed to be so wealthy $40 is chump change or when in the long run, it's in response to unhappy WSO purchasers.

          This thread is not going to make the magic WSO price $20 again. It won't even drop to $40. It may make people think twice about posting their products, but hopefully the majority of the "scum" falls off the forum. We know this isn't really going to happen, but this is just another minor adjustment that only affects those who have either a "half-baked" product and can't back up the claims, or those not even willing to risk $40 to see if it can reap a profit, or even just break even.
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  • Profile picture of the author kemdev
    This whole situation kind of reminds me of governmental
    intervention in free markets... usually when the government
    (or any other outside force) interferes with the natural price
    of a good being sold, no good comes from it.

    What if (instead of a base cost) the cost of running a WSO
    was relative to the amount of new WSOs being bumped or
    created every day?

    You know... that whole 'supply and demand' thing.

    Technically, I'm sure it's possible to code out some type of
    algorithm that determines pricing. Shouldn't be incredibly hard.

    HOWEVER.

    Aside from my free-market point of view, I'm cool with the
    price increase. Like others have said... if the extra $20 keeps
    you from making a profit, you simply need to take another
    look at how you're running things.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
      Originally Posted by Jesse Kemmerer View Post

      This whole situation kind of reminds me of governmental intervention in free markets... usually when the government (or any other outside force) interferes with the natural price of a good being sold, no good comes from it.
      What "outside force"?

      Are you living in a parallel universe you want to tell us about...

      ~Bill
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  • Profile picture of the author marklyford
    This will only be good for the WSO forum IMHO
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  • Profile picture of the author Lauryn
    I laugh at the fact that people complain about the obviously piss-poor WSOs that have been sold at $20... and that the moment someone raises a price, there's more moaning and bickering - but no, this time it's because "Allen" is trying to squeeze money out of people.

    ROFLMAO... serious?

    $40 is squeezing? $40 isn't even a meal for two at a casual restaurant. There are plenty of WSOs here for $1997, $2997... more than ten times what that measly $40 means. If your product is solid, then $40 is nothing.

    I agree there should be standards and even a "WSO review team" that can assess products - for a fee - and then allow them to be posted. If you're posting crap, it should be noted that your WSOs are crap anyway.
    Signature

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    Don't be an arse and try to flip something you clearly have no knowledge of against me.

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    • Profile picture of the author warriorzX
      Originally Posted by Lauryn View Post

      If you're posting crap, it should be noted that your WSOs are crap anyway.
      Absolutely!
      Where is the crap-o-meter? Ebay had this figured out some while ago..:p
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  • Profile picture of the author nossie
    The only thing that will change is more money in the pocket of the forum owners, and some cheap (<$10) or beginner marketer wso's with to low ROI will drop out.

    The bumping of WSO's will not get any slower. For example I'm always waiting for my WSO to land on page4 and I will asap pay for a bump.. Just like 100+ other people with successfull WSO's. This will just continue as it always did. Speed will remain exactly the same.

    This price increase is just a matter of supply and demand. I would do the same thing if I where the owner of warriorforum.
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  • Profile picture of the author Imran Naseem
    Banned
    At the end of the day Allen makes the decision and even if he raises the price to $100 one day I will not have an issue. At least we will see quality WSOs Allen's kingdom, he does what he want and we have to respect that.
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  • Profile picture of the author J Bold
    I think that eventually, everyone will get used to the $40 and it won't be a big issue as it will be "the norm." As humans, we hate change when it happens, naturally. But we also get used to it. Of course, many people love change, especially when they think they can benefit from change.

    I think a lot of the "oh yes, now the WSO forum will have less junk" comments are those who think the change will benefit them. However, as we all know and several have commented, some of the most BS WSOs you can buy sell hundreds of copies and I don't see those kind of WSOs going by the wayside, as they do well. I have been suckered from time to time buying WSOs that even have great reviews from many members, even respected members, only to read a half-assed, sloppily written, unorganized WSO that leaves out tons of details on how to use the information properly, or just plain was made up and really doesn't work without a lot more no-how.

    With the feel good factor in some WSO threads even after people have bought it, it's as if you're feeding people crap sometimes yet telling them it's a $1000 dish made by the World's Greatest Chef and even after eating it they still believe it's a $1000 dish because the salesman got them to drink the Kool-Aid before eating the crap and they can barely taste anymore.

    It boggles my mind sometimes. Something that could have been whipped up in a couple hours and sells for the price of a hardback book which takes 2 years to write.

    Then there are those WSOs that cost under $10 and are a goldmine of information. And they sell a lot of copies and are really useful.

    So, I think this will deter some would be marketers who want to copy the crap WSOs and get the fast money. I do. But I think those who are already great at it, even if their WSO is junk, will still put them up as $40 will be nothing to them.

    I think it will also deter some newbies who have been told to sell a WSO as a way to make some money, telling something they know. Is that such a bad thing? If they're a complete newbie they can't know much. I think it depends on how you look at it.

    If they go to the services section (which should be back to $20 at some point, if not already) and offer an article writing or graphic design service, etc. then they can still do that for the same price, there. Once they gain some experience and are sure they can get some good sales copy and sell a WSO, then they will only do so once they're sure it's worth the $40.

    Originally, I was against raising the price as some of the WSOs Allen probably doesn't want will still be there unless there's more rigorous barriers put in place. But, at the same time,

    Perhaps, like the original change of getting certain backlinking services out of their, the WSOs slowed down a bit and then the number of WSOs came back in a month, the same will happen and it will the same amount of WSOs, with the same in numbers of quality/junk WSOs in a month? Or will it truly be half the WSOs we have now, and thus they stay in the page longer?

    Only time will tell.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    I would think it was more worth it if you didnt have to wait 24 hours between bumps. This will make it take much longer to drop off to the 3rd page. However, it is Allens Decision not ours. There is stil some profit in it Im sure.

    The thing is that a wso does alot of sales in the first two weeks, so its worth every bump... then it drifts off to a few a day... then it drifts off to about 2 or 3 sales every time you bump... sometimes not that depends on the time of day.

    So, if you sell a $20.00 product... its worthwhile to keep bumping for eternity, because everytime you do you make a 20-40.00 profit...

    At $40, it only means that the lifetime of a wso now has a shelf life... for a twenty dollar product it will only be worth promoting for a few weeks before it stops profiting.

    Perhaps thats what allen is doing, keeping it fresh.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    To those who are saying "nothing will change", I'd like to offer a ray of hope. One thing may change...

    People won't take the WSO section for granted as much as they used to.

    Just a thought.

    All the best,
    Michael
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Mukul Verma View Post

      I cannot keep up with this thread. I am scared to blink.

      Mukul, don't worry...when it hits 45 pages it'll self destruct.
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by Mukul Verma View Post

      I cannot keep up with this thread. I am scared to blink.
      You need to try the Ludovico technique, my friend. You won't blink...AT ALL!

      ~M~
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly

    The Results of Some Informal Tracking

    Will the New Fee Keep WSO's on the Front Page Longer?

    At 4:00 PM EST today I took note of the WSO that occupied the
    top
    position on page one. As of 6:40 PM EST today it was
    exactly halfway
    down the first page. I'll see how long it
    takes to get off the first page
    altogether.

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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post


      The Results of Some Informal Tracking

      Will the New Fee Keep WSO's on the Front Page Longer?

      At 4:00 PM EST today I took note of the WSO that occupied the
      top
      position on page one. As of 6:40 PM EST today it was
      exactly halfway
      down the first page. I'll see how long it
      takes to get off the first page
      altogether.

      Steven, the WSO I posted this morning was off of page 1 in about 6
      hours.

      So far, nothing has changed.

      I seriously doubt it will BUT...I am willing to keep an open mind and hope
      for more positives than negatives to come from this.

      That's all any of us can do.
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    • Profile picture of the author Louise Green
      Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post

      The Results of Some Informal Tracking
      Will the New Fee Keep WSO's on the Front Page Longer?

      At 4:00 PM EST today I took note of the WSO that occupied the
      top position on page one. As of 6:40 PM EST today it was
      exactly halfway down the first page. I'll see how long it
      takes to get off the first page altogether.
      I'm also conducting a test.. same results as you (surprise surprise), half way down the first page after a couple of hours. Things seem to be moving as normal.. at least for the moment.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Originally Posted by Louise Evans View Post

        I'm also conducting a test.. same results as you (surprise surprise), half way down the first page after a couple of hours.
        The reason you're seeing this is simple math

        There are essentially 3 kinds of WSO sellers, 2 of them will NOT care about
        the price increase.

        They are...

        1. The established marketer with a great rep who has a great product and
        knows how to market the WSO outside of the forum.

        2. The drive by "make a million overnight" WSOs that the person knows
        will sell like hotcakes so he's not going to blink at the price increase.

        That leaves us with number 3.


        3. The honest newbie who's a little wet behind the ears, might even have
        a great product or service, but is NO marketer and can't write sales copy
        to save his life.

        Number 3, from what I see at the forum, is in the vast minority.

        Thus...no change in how long offers stay on page 1.

        You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure this out.
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      • Profile picture of the author Lance K
        Originally Posted by Louise Evans View Post

        I'm also conducting a test.. same results as you (surprise surprise), half way down the first page after a couple of hours. Things seem to be moving as normal.. at least at the moment.
        I'm sure Allen is running similar tests. And he stated that one of his goals was to cut the number of WSOs in half in order to increase exposure. So if the amount of time on the first page or two doesn't change, all these tests will tell us is that $40 is not the sweet spot.

        Which means that $20 was way too cheap to begin with (yeah, I know...obvious). Good news for Allen. He'll likely need to more than double his prices in order to cut postings in half. Unintended consequence = more cigar money and less headaches. And I'd bet my last dollar that reducing headaches is worth more to him than the extra cigar money. In the end, he'll probably kick himself for not conducting this experiment earlier.
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        • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
          Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

          I'm sure Allen is running similar tests. And he stated that one of his goals was to cut the number of WSOs in half in order to increase exposure. So if the amount of time on the first page or two doesn't change, all these tests will tell us is that $40 is not the sweet spot.

          Which means that $20 was way too cheap to begin with (yeah, I know...obvious). Good news for Allen. He'll likely need to more than double his prices in order to cut postings in half. Unintended consequence = more cigar money and less headaches. And I'd bet my last dollar that reducing headaches is worth more to him than the extra cigar money. In the end, he'll probably kick himself for not conducting this experiment earlier.
          Lance, those unintended consequences are popping up all over the place.
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        • Profile picture of the author Louise Green
          Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

          I'm sure Allen is running similar tests. And he stated that one of his goals was to cut the number of WSOs in half in order to increase exposure. So if the amount of time on the first page or two doesn't change, all these tests will tell us is that $40 is not the sweet spot.
          Agreed, I think increasing the price to $60+ might have the desired effect. But then that will squeeze out a lot of newbies.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
      The Results of Some Informal Tracking
      Will the New Fee Keep WSO's on the Front Page Longer?

      At 4:00 PM EST today I took note of the WSO that occupied the
      top
      position on page one. As of 8:20 PM EST today it was
      exactly TWO THIRDS of the way
      down the first page. I'll see
      how long it takes to get off the first page
      altogether.

      Signature
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
        The Results of Some Informal Tracking
        Will the New Fee Keep WSO's on the Front Page Longer?

        At 4:00 PM EST today I took note of the WSO that occupied the
        top
        position on page one. As of 11:45 PM EST today it had moved
        off the front page completely and is now on page two.


        Approximate time on the front page: 7 hours, 45 minutes.


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    • Profile picture of the author George Wright
      Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post


      The Results of Some Informal Tracking

      Will the New Fee Keep WSO's on the Front Page Longer?

      At 4:00 PM EST today I took note of the WSO that occupied the
      top
      position on page one. As of 6:40 PM EST today it was
      exactly halfway
      down the first page. I'll see how long it
      takes to get off the first page
      altogether.

      Yea Steven,

      I've been watching it, but, not recording it like you. To me it's been moving pretty fast.

      George Wright
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Mayo
        Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post

        The Results of Some Informal Tracking
        Will the New Fee Keep WSO's on the Front Page Longer?

        At 4:00 PM EST today I took note of the WSO that occupied the
        top
        position on page one. As of 8:20 PM EST today it was
        exactly TWO THIRDS of the way
        down the first page. I'll see
        how long it takes to get off the first page
        altogether.

        Steven

        Today is Tuesday and I have stats from August so let me dig them up and
        we'll see how they compare to todays results.

        The stats were tracking one WSO through the WSO forum.

        Date, Time, Page#, Pos#, Posts, Views
        08/17/10, 12:16am, 5, 52, 19, 2772,
        08/17/10, 8:00am, 5, 58, 19, 2772,
        08/17/10, 9:13am, 5, 59, 19, 2772,
        08/17/10, 9:23am, 6, 5, 19, 2772,
        08/17/10, 9:44am, 6, 7, 19, 2772,
        08/17/10, 11:00am, 6, 8, 19, 2772,
        08/17/10, 11:25am, 6, 9, 19, 2772,
        08/17/10, 12:05pm, 6, 12, 19, 2772,
        08/17/10, 12:39pm, 6, 16, 19, 2772,
        08/17/10, 1:04pm, 6, 17, 19, 2772,
        08/17/10, 1:27pm, 6, 18, 19, 2772,
        08/17/10, 2:19pm, 6, 22, 19, 2773,
        08/17/10, 2:35pm, 6, 25, 19, 2773,
        08/17/10, 5:36pm, 6, 29, 19, 2773,
        08/17/10, 6:04pm, 6, 32, 19, 2773,
        08/17/10, 7:22pm, 6, 33, 19, 2773,
        08/17/10, 9:13pm, 6, 35, 19, 2773,
        08/17/10, 9:46pm, 6, 38, 19, 2773,
        08/17/10, 10:14pm, 6, 39, 19, 2774,
        08/17/10, 10:53pm, 6, 40, 19, 2774,
        08/18/10, 1:16am, 6, 45, 19, 2775,

        Moved 53 positions in 25 hours.


        Have a Great Day!
        Michael
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    • Profile picture of the author Kamran
      Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post


      The Results of Some Informal Tracking

      Will the New Fee Keep WSO's on the Front Page Longer?

      At 4:00 PM EST today I took note of the WSO that occupied the
      top
      position on page one. As of 6:40 PM EST today it was
      exactly halfway
      down the first page. I'll see how long it
      takes to get off the first page
      altogether.

      You will get what is known as transient error. Right now, a lot of people are just realizing that the price has gone up, so they might think something like "I will not do anymore WSOs but lets do one last bump". To get a reliable tracking, you have to wait a few days until everyone knows the cost. I have a hunch it will remain the same as before
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  • I think its great. For those who ad true value, their competition will be cut and they will receive MORE traffic and more sales because of this change (theoretically).
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
    You know, it may take a series steps to stop the junk.

    1. Impose a 3 to 6 month membership time frame.
    2. Impose a 100 post limit. (also hard code a higher character limit per post)
    3. Keep the war room requirement.
    4. Implement some sort of rep system.

    Sure, each one of those can be "gamed' some way - but the combination of all 4 could very well help cut the crap.

    A lot of scammers won't have the patience to wait 6 months - and posting garbage will get them banned.

    Then you have the rep system - sure it can be gamed, but the combo from the first 2 will I think - weed a lot out.

    Rob
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    • Profile picture of the author RyanT
      Rob,

      I like the way you're thinking. I believe in that too. The combination of everything should weed out the crap. And really no matter what anyone does, there will always be someone trying to play the system.

      Unless it really gets raised to $100, and that my friends is CRAZY TALK!
      $100 to post?! I'm sorry but no way.

      roughly $500 a week, $2000 a month on advertising for one WSO.

      That would raise the price of EVERY WSO to the point where it's not a special offer anymore
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      • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
        To be honest, I would still pay 100 to 200 bucks per post and I wouldn't blink an eye.

        And I would still charge 7 bucks for some reports.


        This isn't some 200 dollar TV were you get to sit on your hind end and get fat.

        This is a business investment - advertising - you can even write it off on your taxes!


        The point though - is that if you treat it as an investment, if FORCES you to learn and grow. Throw down 200 bucks on a Warrior forum WSO. Have an awesome product with solid backend.

        Learn and study copy and marketing.

        What if you fail?

        Well, you lost 200 bucks.

        I lost 2000 bucks on adwords in a few days.


        That, my friends, is business.


        Now, will newbies who have awesome services lose more? Probably...so here is my solution to them: Get creative...

        How about a joint venture deal with someone more experienced? Split the cost of the advertising or have him front the cost and write the marketing material.

        The agreement would be that he gets to keep all the funds from the sales.

        What do you get?

        A list...


        A list you can then sell to again and again.

        Now, maybe the guy who fronted the cost doesn't make much back - say only a couple hundred bucks - but he didn't do any of the work (besides the quick sales letter). Say he even isn't happy - what do you offer him?

        How about the ability to leverage the list?

        Make them into affiliates?

        Do cross promotions?

        Ad swaps?

        Or bake him a cake?


        Seriously - capitalism is all about innovation and creativity. Big hills or mountains to climb force us to GROW or DIE.

        If that is the 2 options - I take grow.

        Rob
        Originally Posted by RyanT View Post

        Rob,

        I like the way you're thinking. I believe in that too. The combination of everything should weed out the crap. And really no matter what anyone does, there will always be someone trying to play the system.

        Unless it really gets raised to $100, and that my friends is CRAZY TALK!
        $100 to post?! I'm sorry but no way.

        roughly $500 a week, $2000 a month on advertising for one WSO.

        That would raise the price of EVERY WSO to the point where it's not a special offer anymore
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
      Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

      You know, it may take a series steps to stop the junk.

      1. Impose a 3 to 6 month membership time frame.
      2. Impose a 100 post limit. (also hard code a higher character limit per post)
      3. Keep the war room requirement.
      4. Implement some sort of rep system.

      Sure, each one of those can be "gamed' some way - but the combination of all 4 could very well help cut the crap.

      A lot of scammers won't have the patience to wait 6 months - and posting garbage will get them banned.

      Then you have the rep system - sure it can be gamed, but the combo from the first 2 will I think - weed a lot out.

      Rob
      Another good way is to just eliminate and ban known scammers.

      You have people that fake income proof still selling WSO's

      You have people that have scammed people out of thousands of dollars still active on the forum and selling WSO'S.

      You have people that refuse to give refunds, disappear for a bit, then come back and sell some more.

      You have obvious "networks" of folks working together in...less than ethical ways that are allowed to be sellers.

      You have people that get called out for pretty much "stealing" products...and what happens? Do they get banned? Hell no...their offer gets closed, and in some cases the thread gets deleted, and the person just comes up with something else to sell.

      I think cleaning up the section would be alot easier if Warriors could call a spade a spade instead of having to bite their tongues.

      It's gotten to the point where a dude can rip you off for a couple thousand dollars and be an active member here, but if you call the person out and try to let everyone else know...You get banned, and the scammer gets to keep scamming.

      If you call a scammer out in their WSO thread, you get reprimanded for making comments about a product you didn't buy lol
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      • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
        I agree Jeremy - I was just suggesting idea's to work with the system we got.

        It would be 10 times easier just to ban people.

        Granted, I see the faults in that too - you can easily get into a pissing match between a nutty customer who wants to rip you off and the forum...

        I guess that is were a rep system would come into play...

        IDK - Whatever.

        lol

        Rob

        Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

        Another good way is to just eliminate and ban known scammers.

        You have people that fake income proof still selling WSO's

        You have people that have scammed people out of thousands of dollars still active on the forum and selling WSO'S.

        You have people that refuse to give refunds, disappear for a bit, then come back and sell some more.

        You have obvious "networks" of folks working together in...less than ethical ways that are allowed to be sellers.

        You have people that get called out for pretty much "stealing" products...and what happens? Do they get banned? Hell no...their offer gets closed, and in some cases the thread gets deleted, and the person just comes up with something else to sell.

        I think cleaning up the section would be alot easier if Warriors could call a spade a spade instead of having to bite their tongues.

        It's gotten to the point where a dude can rip you off for a couple thousand dollars and be an active member here, but if you call the person out and try to let everyone else know...You get banned, and the scammer gets to keep scamming.

        If you call a scammer out in their WSO thread, you get reprimanded for making comments about a product you didn't buy lol
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

        Another good way is to just eliminate and ban known scammers.
        A somewhat disturbing trend ... we're in complete agreement once again.
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  • Profile picture of the author RyanT
    I would've liked a notice.

    I understand the try to weed out crap and get rid of the 3 page reports that people sell for $17.

    BUT, Those of us who take the time and effort to generate a good WSO will now also pay the price.

    On top of that the SPECIAL in Warriors SPECIAL Offers is going to take a hit.

    Now that prices have increased and no doubt will continue to, these $7 $10 $13 $17 WSO's are a thing of the past.

    That's one point I do not like.

    I enjoy the fact that I can offer my product that would normally sell for $30 or so for half the price.

    but let's say I have a $17 WSO, I would need 3-4 sales a day just to break even with the advertising cost.

    Now I know 3-4 isn't that much but when you're just breaking even with it, seems a little rough.

    So with that in mind my WSO would need to go up several dollars so my normal 3-4 sales a day would put me over rather than even.

    I duno man, I understand the logic behind it, but wow out of the blue like that? And again I hate that the SPECIAL is being taken out simply due to advertising costs
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    • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
      I'm surprised that so many people haven't heard of a LOSS LEADER.

      You know, get customers in the door at a loss but make up heavy on the back end.

      It's pretty easy to do:

      1. Offer up an amazing 7 dollar report that blows people away.

      By blowing them away, you encourage them to buy.

      2. Offer a 37 or 97 dollar upsell for a larger course, a membership site...whatever.

      Or as I said before...

      3. Convert 7 dollar buyers into affiliates and then build massive list. Upsell list with other reports for free.

      Not that difficult...

      Rob

      Originally Posted by RyanT View Post

      I would've liked a notice.

      I understand the try to weed out crap and get rid of the 3 page reports that people sell for $17.

      BUT, Those of us who take the time and effort to generate a good WSO will now also pay the price.

      On top of that the SPECIAL in Warriors SPECIAL Offers is going to take a hit.

      Now that prices have increased and no doubt will continue to, these $7 $10 $13 $17 WSO's are a thing of the past.

      That's one point I do not like.

      I enjoy the fact that I can offer my product that would normally sell for $30 or so for half the price.

      but let's say I have a $17 WSO, I would need 3-4 sales a day just to break even with the advertising cost.

      Now I know 3-4 isn't that much but when you're just breaking even with it, seems a little rough.

      So with that in mind my WSO would need to go up several dollars so my normal 3-4 sales a day would put me over rather than even.

      I duno man, I understand the logic behind it, but wow out of the blue like that? And again I hate that the SPECIAL is being taken out simply due to advertising costs
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      • Profile picture of the author RyanT
        Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

        I'm surprised that so many people haven't heard of a LOSS LEADER.

        You know, get customers in the door at a loss but make up heavy on the back end.

        It's pretty easy to do:

        1. Offer up an amazing 7 dollar report that blows people away.

        By blowing them away, you encourage them to buy.

        2. Offer a 37 or 97 dollar upsell for a larger course, a membership site...whatever.

        Or as I said before...

        3. Convert 7 dollar buyers into affiliates and then build massive list. Upsell list with other reports for free.

        Not that difficult...

        Rob
        Again another great view Rob.

        This is exactly what I'm in the process of doing. But again you could realistically take a huge hit and not see much backend
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      • Profile picture of the author Lance K
        Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

        I'm surprised that so many people haven't heard of a LOSS LEADER.

        You know, get customers in the door at a loss but make up heavy on the back end.
        Exactly. And it's a win-win-win.

        • Allen gets the WSO fee for providing the platform.
        • The customer gets a discount because Allen is providing the platform.
        • The vendor acquires customers for peanuts because Allen is providing the platform where people are looking to spend money on discounted products and services.
        Signature
        "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
        ~ Zig Ziglar
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

        I'm surprised that so many people haven't heard of a LOSS LEADER.

        You know, get customers in the door at a loss but make up heavy on the back end.

        It's pretty easy to do:

        1. Offer up an amazing 7 dollar report that blows people away.

        By blowing them away, you encourage them to buy.

        2. Offer a 37 or 97 dollar upsell for a larger course, a membership site...whatever.

        Or as I said before...

        3. Convert 7 dollar buyers into affiliates and then build massive list. Upsell list with other reports for free.

        Not that difficult...

        Rob

        Not everybody sells reports and info products. Some people sell copywriting, software, websites, graphic design .... etc.
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        • Profile picture of the author Lance K
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          Not everybody sells reports and info products. Some people sell copywriting, software, websites, graphic design .... etc.
          And they're still paying peanuts to acquire customers.
          Signature
          "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
          ~ Zig Ziglar
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          • Profile picture of the author Taylor French
            Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

            And they're still paying peanuts to acquire customers.
            $40 is peanuts when you're providing a service that takes an enormous amount of time? Not in this economy. At least, not in the real world.
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            • Profile picture of the author Lance K
              Originally Posted by Taylor French View Post

              $40 is peanuts when you're providing a service that takes an enormous amount of time? Not in this economy. At least, not in the real world.
              It depends. If you secure 10 clients that you wouldn't otherwise have, who are each worth $500 to you over the next 12 months, then yeah, I'd say $40 is peanuts. You paid $4 each to generate revenue of $500 each. Not to mention, you have 10 people who you can get testimonials from and ask for referrals.
              Signature
              "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
              ~ Zig Ziglar
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              • Profile picture of the author Taylor French
                Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

                It depends. If you secure 10 clients that you wouldn't otherwise have, who are each worth $500 to you over the next 12 months, then yeah, I'd say $40 is peanuts. You paid $4 each to generate revenue of $500 each. Not to mention, you have 10 people who you can get testimonials from and ask for referrals.
                And what if you have to sacrifice something like food to pay the $40 fee to list and your WSO happens to get no attention? That's a major concern.

                The thing a lot of people seem to be missing is that in this economy, a lot of writers, designers, programmers, etc. are out of work. They are looking for freelance work to make ends meet while looking for jobs.

                Coming up with $40 when you aren't working to *maybe* get some work while competing against 20 or 30 other people also offering the same service is not the easiest thing in the world.

                This may not hurt "marketers" a lot, but it could hurt service providers a great deal.
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                • Profile picture of the author Kim Standerline
                  So get yourself on Elance, rentacoder or any of those other sites out there where you can sell your services.

                  Putting all your hopes on one forum etc is madness. You need to spread yourself around.

                  Kim

                  Originally Posted by Taylor French View Post

                  The thing a lot of people seem to be missing is that in this economy, a lot of writers, designers, programmers, etc. are out of work. They are looking for freelance work to make ends meet while looking for jobs.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Taylor French
                    Originally Posted by Kim Standerline View Post

                    So get yourself on Elance, rentacoder or any of those other sites out there where you can sell your services.

                    Putting all your hopes on one forum etc is madness. You need to spread yourself around.

                    Kim
                    Been there, done that for years. I was doing just fine until the economy got bad, but then, even with excellent references and a client base, they all started going to $3 writers. Even my clients who were paying $10 per article regularly and were thrilled with my service have gone to cheap writers, because they claim they aren't making as much now, either.

                    I've had to move away from services for the most part, because it's just not worth it in this economy. I still take work now and then, but it's not my only income anymore.

                    However, if I were just starting out, a $20 WSO would have been a great way to try to get some work. $40 would probably be out of the question, however. When you have to charge even less for your services than normal to qualify as a "special offer", that $40 can make profit margins very, very slim on a service that is already very inexpensive, like writing.
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                • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
                  Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises View Post

                  Sorry, Jill, most of your post was on the money but this statement is waaaaaaaaaayyyyy out in left field.

                  Tina
                  Tina, in my defense I said "most likely" not definitely. There are exceptions to the rule.

                  Overall you need to have some kind of support group or some contacts to help you along the way no matter who you are. This forum is an excellent opportunity to network and get to know people. It's a community.

                  I have a friend I know from online who I've never met in person. We were both involved in a common cause and it evolved into phone conversations and some very close conversations about things not even around that cause. She is a friend and supporter even though I've never met her personally. Without any friends or supporters I would have to say it would be a seriously miserable journey. If I can't prove or convince to someone I know what my abilities are how can I be convincing to complete strangers? How good will my personal customer service skills be if I have no one who will even be a friend to me?

                  While I like to know how to do everything myself, and can wear many hats - I know how important it is to have some people behind me that are not just looking for a paycheck.

                  Yes, you can sell things and market if you were a lone wolf out in the woods. But personally I'd want to deal with people who have a true ability to connect with others in some way.
                  Signature

                  "May I have ten thousand marbles, please?"

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                • Profile picture of the author TimGross
                  Originally Posted by Taylor French View Post

                  And what if you have to sacrifice something like food to pay the $40 fee to list and your WSO happens to get no attention? That's a major concern.
                  Then you shouldn't be spending money advertising your entrepreneurial venture. You should be working to get free traffic. You should be trying to get joint ventures or an affiliate program succeeding. You should be working a job. You could make the same argument vehemently arguing that WSO's should be $5 instead of $20. If you're aware of somewhere that you can get better exposure for the price advertising a marketing-related product online, please let me know, I'd love to check it out.

                  Long ago, WSO's were a perk for being a contributing Warrior Forum member. Since then, a large portion of people have started coming here specifically in order to post WSO's. At that point, it's not a charity or a perk; price should be set on supply and demand... And supply and demand dictates that WSO's should cost significantly more than $40.
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        • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          Not everybody sells reports and info products. Some people sell copywriting, software, websites, graphic design .... etc.
          And what does that have to do with anything?

          Get those people (who want services) on a buyers list and offer them more at a future date...

          AND/OR start doing some affiliate marketing!

          What else are people going to need? Say they come to you with copy needs...ask them if they need graphics then send them to someone who you worked a deal with. You get a cut.

          Do they need graphics? What about video design work? Software? Information?


          Rob
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          • Profile picture of the author Taylor French
            Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

            And what does that have to do with anything?

            Get those people (who want services) on a buyers list and offer them more at a future date...

            AND/OR start doing some affiliate marketing!

            What else are people going to need? Say they come to you with copy needs...ask them if they need graphics then send them to someone who you worked a deal with. You get a cut.

            Do they need graphics? What about video design work? Software? Information?


            Rob
            With so many people competing in a bad economy, it's already a buyer's market. Not many service providers can even afford to pay a commission these days. Most people, especially newer freelancers, are already having trouble making ends meet.
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

            And what does that have to do with anything?

            Get those people (who want services) on a buyers list and offer them more at a future date...

            AND/OR start doing some affiliate marketing!

            What else are people going to need? Say they come to you with copy needs...ask them if they need graphics then send them to someone who you worked a deal with. You get a cut.

            Do they need graphics? What about video design work? Software? Information?


            Rob
            I'm not in the least bit interested in affiliate marketing. I sell my own products. I do have a list that was created for the sole purpose of letting them know of a new site I have for sale. The list expects to be informed of new sites and does not expect or want to be offered affiliate offers. That's not what they signed up for.

            Basically, I have no interest in selling people everything under the sun. Many of you are the "marketers" and marketing pretty much anything is what you do.

            I stick to what I like to sell.
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            • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

              I'm not in the least bit interested in affiliate marketing. I sell my own products. I do have a list that was created for the sole purpose of letting them know of a new site I have for sale. The list expects to be informed of new sites and does not expect or want to be offered affiliate offers. That's not what they signed up for.

              Basically, I have no interest in selling people everything under the sun. Many of you are the "marketers" and marketing pretty much anything is what you do.

              I stick to what I like to sell.
              I'm the same way...Even though I am a "marketer" (I like to think I am anyway) I generally only market our own products to the list that I've built from this forum.

              I'm not interested in getting the people from this forum into any sort of sales funnel or upselling them or any of that other stuff to try to maximize profit.

              Don and I enjoy creating products, and do it more as a hobby, and a way to cover our travel budget than anything else.

              I don't really care about the $40 price to post and bump as I know that the cost will be easily covered, but I can see how some folks such as yourself, and some of the people that I know that offer writing services, or other low margin products/services COULD be affected somewhat.
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              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

                I'm the same way...Even though I am a "marketer" (I like to think I am anyway) I generally only market our own products to the list that I've built from this forum.

                I'm not interested in getting the people from this forum into any sort of sales funnel or upselling them or any of that other stuff to try to maximize profit.

                Don and I enjoy creating products, and do it more as a hobby, and a way to cover our travel budget than anything else.

                I don't really care about the $40 price to post and bump as I know that the cost will be easily covered, but I can see how some folks such as yourself, and some of the people that I know that offer writing services, or other low margin products/services COULD be affected somewhat.

                I don't really care at all about the $40 price of a WSO ... my products are sold in Complete Sites for Sale, which is in Warrior Products and Services and gets much less traffic than the WSO forum and is at $40 now also.

                I've got a programmer working on a piece of software and I won't blink an eye at the $40 when and if he ever finishes it.

                But I completely agree that the $40 may hurt people it wasn't intended to hurt while the scammers who know how to market and write copy will continue to make bank. I don't think that someone who has literally run away with the customer's money and not delivered product or hasn't honored refund policies should have the right to continue to sell.

                And the shroud of silence around the scam deals allows it to continue.

                I've seen quite a few newbies who are putting together their first product and testing the waters in a WSO ... they come back to report that they only sold a few copies and what did they do wrong? Asking advice on how to improve their product and sales. They're testing and learning, basically and this will probably hurt them the most.

                So a price increase by itself ... I don't think is going to eliminate what it is intended to eliminate.
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                • Profile picture of the author oneplusone
                  Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                  I don't really care at all about the $40 price of a WSO ... my products are sold in Complete Sites for Sale, which is in Warrior Products and Services and gets much less traffic than the WSO forum and is at $40 now also.

                  I've got a programmer working on a piece of software and I won't blink an eye at the $40 when and if he ever finishes it.

                  But I completely agree that the $40 may hurt people it wasn't intended to hurt while the scammers who know how to market and write copy will continue to make bank. I don't think that someone who has literally run away with the customer's money and not delivered product or hasn't honored refund policies should have the right to continue to sell.

                  And the shroud of silence around the scam deals allows it to continue.

                  I've seen quite a few newbies who are putting together their first product and testing the waters in a WSO ... they come back to report that they only sold a few copies and what did they do wrong? Asking advice on how to improve their product and sales. They're testing and learning, basically and this will probably hurt them the most.

                  So a price increase by itself ... I don't think is going to eliminate what it is intended to eliminate.
                  If you look earlier in this thread I think you'll find Allen made it clear the $40 price is a mistake, and should ONLY be for WSOs.

                  He said his programmer will fix it and everywhere else should be back to $20 soon.

                  Only the WSO listing price has gone to $40 I believe.
                  Signature
                  'If you hear a voice within you say "you cannot paint," then by all means paint and that voice will be silenced.' Vincent Van Gogh.
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            • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

              I'm not in the least bit interested in affiliate marketing. I sell my own products. I do have a list that was created for the sole purpose of letting them know of a new site I have for sale. The list expects to be informed of new sites and does not expect or want to be offered affiliate offers. That's not what they signed up for.

              Basically, I have no interest in selling people everything under the sun. Many of you are the "marketers" and marketing pretty much anything is what you do.

              I stick to what I like to sell.
              Who said affiliate marketing?

              I said recommending people partners who are in related fields. Someone needs web copy, why don't you recommend someone?

              You can even do this at point of sale. Individually that is.

              That is the point of networking - growing and sharing customers and making everyone happy.

              You don't have to blast your list with affiliate offers.


              Anyway, all I'm saying is that if anyone doesn't like a price increase, they have two options - get creative and grow, or stop using the service.

              Pretty simple. And if your business grows because one service collapses, well then, you never had much of a business to begin with. You are just making money.

              Rob
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              • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

                Who said affiliate marketing?

                I said recommending people partners who are in related fields. Someone needs web copy, why don't you recommend someone?

                You can even do this at point of sale. Individually that is.

                That is the point of networking - growing and sharing customers and making everyone happy.

                You don't have to blast your list with affiliate offers.


                Anyway, all I'm saying is that if anyone doesn't like a price increase, they have two options - get creative and grow, or stop using the service.

                Pretty simple. And if your business grows because one service collapses, well then, you never had much of a business to begin with. You are just making money.

                Rob

                I hate to admit this but I kind of agree with you.

                Point is, the world is not fair. Nobody owes any of us anything. If we
                want something, we have to go out and get it.

                I just wrote an article inspired by this thread (thank you all) called "Get
                Creative Or Die"

                It's a rough world out there. The economy sucks. People aren't throwing
                around money like they used to. Prices have gone up (not just here)
                and for many people, income has gone down. Some a little, some a lot.

                And no, I probably won't make as much money this year as I did last year.

                Shocked?

                I'm not.

                For one thing, I don't work nearly as hard as I did and don't want to.

                For another, this whole incestuous business is starting to get on my
                nerves.

                And in spite of all that, I'm still doing just fine. I do the minimum amount
                of work to make enough for me to be comfortable.

                I spend the rest of the day blowing up alien spaceships or whatever.

                Actually, Sorcery Quest is my game of choice these days...totally
                addicting.

                Point is, and then I'll get off my soap box, it is what it is folks. Bitching
                about it won't change it.

                As Rob said (man I'm really starting to like the way you think) you either
                adapt or pack it in.

                I'm not quite ready to pack it in yet.

                But that day is not far off.

                This business can really give you gray hairs.
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                • Profile picture of the author John Durham
                  Steven, what happened to spending your days making music...? Been hearing about video games... and hoping to hear you are still jamming.

                  Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post


                  And in spite of all that, I'm still doing just fine. I do the minimum amount
                  of work to make enough for me to be comfortable.

                  I spend the rest of the day blowing up alien spaceships or whatever.

                  Actually, Sorcery Quest is my game of choice these days...totally
                  addicting.

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                  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                    Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

                    Steven, what happened to spending your days making music...? Been hearing about video games... and hoping to hear you are still jamming.
                    I took a break from music. Made 9 new CDs in 2 plus years...16 songs
                    each.

                    Can you say burnout?
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                    • Profile picture of the author Matt Morgan
                      Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post

                      The Results of Some Informal Tracking
                      Will the New Fee Keep WSO's on the Front Page Longer?

                      At 4:00 PM EST today I took note of the WSO that occupied the
                      top
                      position on page one. As of 8:20 PM EST today it was
                      exactly TWO THIRDS of the way
                      down the first page. I'll see
                      how long it takes to get off the first page
                      altogether.

                      Originally Posted by George Wright View Post

                      Yea Steven,

                      I've been watching it, but, not recording it like you. To me it's been moving pretty fast.

                      George Wright
                      Originally Posted by Sheryl Polomka View Post

                      Exactly - this is why there needs to be more rules put in place and not just a price rise to solve this problem. There needs to be a minimum number of posts required before being allowed to post a WSO.
                      This is my thoght on why the New $40 Wsos are moving down quickly.

                      I think one reason that they could be moving fast is that people might be rushing to post or bump up their '$40' WSOs, in the hope that the majority of warriors will not post or pause their posting of their WSO.

                      These posters might assume that now this new price increase of $40 has come in that this leaves the way clear to post or bump up their old wsos, as not many new ones will be posted due to the 'adaptation of this change'.

                      However this might have backfired and have resulted in many many warriors posting their WSO under this new $40 fee, so caused saturation again.

                      This saturation might get reduced in weeks though, as people are still adjusting to the new price, but i think many people have bumped up their WSO now, hoping that the 'newbies' will pause the release of their WSO, but the WSO bumper didnt realise that many other warriors have played the same trick and has resulted in a fast moving WSO down page 1.
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                    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
                      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                      I took a break from music. Made 9 new CDs in 2 plus years...16 songs
                      each.

                      Can you say burnout?
                      Yup. I get it now. Only YOU could write nine cds with 16 songs in 2 years!
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  • Profile picture of the author winebuddy
    Allen,

    Please raise the price for posting a WSO to $80.

    I agree with you completely.

    If one has copywriting skills and a good product - it will sell and make back the WSO price in minutes - even if priced at $17.

    Thanks in advance,
    Mike
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  • Profile picture of the author Zabrina
    Okay, I read the first two pages and then just skimmed, so I'm not sure if anyone pointed this out yet (I'll go back and reread the section between pages 3 and now after this post).

    Here's my impression of the intention of the WSO section.

    I thought it was intended for senior Warriors, veterans who had already been around the block once or twice, to share methods that really worked for them.

    It's a way of giving back when you've received plentifully.

    I don't think the idea was for newer Warriors to use the WSO section to break into the market here and build a reputation.

    Therefore, this is still very much in line with the intention of the WSO forum, if I understand it correctly.

    Sure, newer members might not have the $40, but you're not really supposed to be listing there until you've made plenty of money and you're now starting to share your techniques, skills, or whatever other finely honed expertise you can offer... and by that point, $20 extra shouldn't make that much of a difference.

    My two Canadian cents.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Zabrina View Post

      Okay, I read the first two pages and then just skimmed, so I'm not sure if anyone pointed this out yet (I'll go back and reread the section between pages 3 and now after this post).

      Here's my impression of the intention of the WSO section.

      I thought it was intended for senior Warriors, veterans who had already been around the block once or twice, to share methods that really worked for them.

      It's a way of giving back when you've received plentifully.

      I don't think the idea was for newer Warriors to use the WSO section to break into the market here and build a reputation.

      Therefore, this is still very much in line with the intention of the WSO forum, if I understand it correctly.

      Sure, newer members might not have the $40, but you're not really supposed to be listing there until you've made plenty of money and you're now starting to share your techniques, skills, or whatever other finely honed expertise you can offer... and by that point, $20 extra shouldn't make that much of a difference.

      My two Canadian cents.
      The issue with this is that newer member doesnt always mean "newby marketers" some with 20-30 posts around here who have been on since 2007 or whatever say some amazing things... they are experienced marketers who just dont say alot...


      CCmusicman has me thinking though...

      Perhaps this will catapult some into new ways of marketing... I have not used a loss leader myself... but he's right , that should be an obvious strategy. I should try to implement that tactic into my overall strategies. ...
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      • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

        The issue with this is that newer member doesnt always mean "newby marketers" some with 20-30 posts around here who have been on since 2007 or whatever say some amazing things... they are experienced marketers who just dont say alot...


        CCmusicman has me thinking though...

        Perhaps this will catapult some into new ways of marketing... I have not used a loss leader myself... but he's right , that should be an obvious strategy. I should try to implement that tactic into my overall strategies. ...
        This is what I'm trying to say...

        Having bigger barriers to entry only forces those to toughen up and adapt - which in this case, means learn and grow, try new things.

        I'm not newbie bashing here...but these things are simple once you understand them.

        You offer a product or service, you collect and sell again and again.

        List building 101.


        Guys look - I have two particular examples of this:

        Example #1 - WSO Ezinearticles Domination

        $30,000 in sales in 2 months.

        Example #2 - Quad Cash Profit System

        $100,000 dollars in sales over 3 months.

        Those both started as small WSO's.

        Both leveraged list building and that's why they did those numbers.


        Now - yes, article writing isn't "sexy". But how do you make it sexy? What kind of deal can you offer to get people to buy?


        What about a FREE 5 article pack? Limit it to 10 warriors at a time.

        This time you make NOTHING on the deal - but if you write a mean awesome article, then you've just got someone who will be blown away and actually buy.

        Then upsell your full service with affiliate marketing thrown in there.


        Or get together and syndicate.

        Find other newbies that offer complementing service. Graphics with web copy, articles with videos...then start recommending each other for a small cut.


        IDK - Regardless, the point of the WSO section is to give back to the community...and here is my theory...

        One cannot give back unless they've grown themselves...and if you are a successful marketer, then you have the time and resources to give back.

        Think about this - the homeless guy down the street...what can he contribute to the world?

        Something - of course - but not MUCH of something...

        But what if he develops a drive and the community helps him achieve it?

        He will then be in a much better position to give back.


        I look at the WF that way - most newbies have a chance here NOT in the WSO but in the Main forum and War Room.

        A chance to learn, grow, watch, interact.

        Once they have a business that is successful, then is the time to give back.


        Just my thoughts.

        Rob
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    • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
      Originally Posted by Zabrina View Post

      My two Canadian cents.
      How much is that worth now in American cents?
      Signature

      "May I have ten thousand marbles, please?"

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  • Profile picture of the author RyanT
    Again, I understand the logic behind it all but there HAS to be another way.

    What about the little guy?

    I'm not a scammer, I'm not a fraud.

    I spend A LOT of time and money trying my butt off to make a real business and real income online.

    Now I will eventually get everything under wraps and be making buku bucks like most of you, but until then does that mean I get cancelled out?

    It shouldn't.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joel Gray
    Considering the exposure of a WSO offer, the targeted customer base and the potential for making way more than $40 it seems like a very good price. Keep in mind that if you post a WSO for a $5 product you just need to get 8 sales to make up the initial $40 investment, I have seen many WSO's make 8 sales within the first 30 minutes of the offer being posted.

    Joel
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    • Profile picture of the author RyanT
      Originally Posted by Joel Gray View Post

      Considering the exposure of a WSO offer, the targeted customer base and the potential for making way more than $40 it seems like a very good price. Keep in mind that if you post a WSO for a $5 product you just need to get 8 sales to make up the initial $40 investment, I have seen many WSO's make 8 sales within the first 30 minutes of the offer being posted.

      Joel

      I don't know about anyone else but it's not the initial $40 that has me questioning it.

      It's the constant $40, everyday, all week, every week, all month

      I've made decent returns and can't complain too much but wow man $240 a week is up there.

      Now if this weeds out the crap and we don't have to bump everyday this could change things but still at $40 I'm looking at bumping everyday
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      • Profile picture of the author Tom B
        Banned
        Originally Posted by RyanT View Post


        I've made decent returns and can't complain too much but wow man $240 a week is up there.

        HAHA You better get into a different form of marketing like writing your own articles.

        Better yet, develop a plan instead of posting a wso here and there.

        The wso section is just another traffic source. A very cheap one at that.
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        • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
          If you have no friends or family then you likely won't be a very good marketer to begin with.
          Sorry, Jill, most of your post was on the money but this statement is waaaaaaaaaayyyyy out in left field.

          Tina
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          • Profile picture of the author Taylor French
            Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises View Post

            Sorry, Jill, most of your post was on the money but this statement is waaaaaaaaaayyyyy out in left field.

            Tina
            I agree. That was insulting and a really bizarre statement. :confused:
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            • Profile picture of the author Agung Prabowo
              Why not using marketer price much better $37 then $40
              just my 2 cent

              please continue.......
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            • Profile picture of the author MilesT
              Originally Posted by Taylor French View Post

              I agree. That was insulting and a really bizarre statement. :confused:
              I think the point she was making is that IF you are not capable of making friends then you're probably not a people person and therefore will probably suffer at the hands of marketing. I don't think she was trying to insult the lonely types of the world.

              Jill, quick, tell me that's the point you were making
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    • Profile picture of the author Zabrina
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      The issue with this is that newer member doesnt always mean "newby marketers" some with 20-30 posts around here who have been on since 2007 or whatever say some amazing things... they are experienced marketers who just dont say alot...


      CCmusicman has me thinking though...

      Perhaps this will catapult some into new ways of marketing... I have not used a loss leader myself... but he's right , that should be an obvious strategy. I should try to implement that tactic into my overall strategies. ...

      True, a new member can be an experienced marketer. I wouldn't count myself as a "veteran" or anything, but I have fewer posts than some people here who haven't yet made a dollar.

      But... my sense of the WSO forum was that it was originally about community over experience. The veterans who have been here for a while and know what they're doing deserve to be able to give back and profit.

      If you're not a part of the community (and easily identifiable as such) and you're posting a WSO, why? Chances are good that your primary motivation is money.

      Yes, there are exceptions, like experienced marketers who don't post or read here much and still want to help the people they don't know, but I don't think they are the rule. Maybe that's cynical, but that's how I see it.

      Besides, experienced marketers who are relatively unknown here should still have the money to pay an extra $20.

      Originally Posted by avenuegirl View Post

      How much is that worth now in American cents?
      1.95179 cents USD, Google tells me.
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  • My advice: Team up with other warriors to make a killer product that is a steal at $47. Then, split the bumps between you. Get some testimonials, then launch it for $97.

    Start looking into partnerships as a way to stay ahead of the game.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joe Fier
    I just released a new WSO last week, so when I was going to pay the bump fee, the $40 caught me completely off guard. At the time I was totally shocked that the fee went up 100%, but now thinking about all of the benefits, I really like the idea.

    Something I have used many times with WSOs is the loss leader method mentioned by ccmusicman. It's an awesome way to build a buyers list that would be more than willing to purchase even more on the back-end... assuming you have a really awesome front-end product.

    One thing that I've always wondered is why there are so many people who solely run their business in the WSO section. I understand that it is a very inexpensive way to advertise your product to thousands of targeted buyers, but this change will directly effect your bottom line.

    I have read some posts in other threads of people complaining about the price killing their business. How about if the forum goes down for a day or so (like it did the other day)... looks like there won't be any sales coming in!!

    Like some others have said here, the WSO section is probably best used as a testing ground for future product launches, services and other things.

    Be a little creative with your selling, market well and offer amazing value in your WSOs and this price increase shouldn't make a difference.
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  • Profile picture of the author TimGross
    How about this:

    1) WSO Base Rate of $20
    2) $2 extra fee for every exclamation point in the sales copy
    3) $50 extra fee for every stated claim that doesn't conform to FTC guidelines (ie, "You'll Make $1,000 In The Next 7 Days With The WSO Guaranteed")
    -or-
    4) An extra $20 fee to the seller for every buyer who states that the product did not live up to the WSO's extravagant claims.

    I realize of course that none of those things could actually be implemented (except #2, charging per exclamation point), but if the goal is to keep bull****, semi-scammy, possibly illegal offers off the WSO board, raising the price won't do it, because as has been mentioned in this thread, those people can afford the higher fee.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
      2. That could greatly increase the cost of some wso's!

      3. If the WSO offer does not conform to the FTC (Advertising and Income Claims) then it should not be allowed, screw the fine. I'd sleep better at night if this was my forum if I had that rule. = )

      Why does Paypal dislike processing payments for purveyors of digital products?

      Think about that, how could their perspective be applied to the WSO rules for a positive effect.


      Originally Posted by TimGross View Post

      How about this:

      1) WSO Base Rate of $20
      2) $2 extra fee for every exclamation point in the sales copy
      3) $50 extra fee for every stated claim that doesn't conform to FTC guidelines (ie, "You'll Make $1,000 In The Next 7 Days With The WSO Guaranteed")
      -or-
      4) An extra $20 fee to the seller for every buyer who states that the product did not live up to the WSO's extravagant claims.

      I realize of course that none of those things could actually be implemented (except #2, charging per exclamation point), but if the goal is to keep bull****, semi-scammy, possibly illegal offers off the WSO board, raising the price won't do it, because as has been mentioned in this thread, those people can afford the higher fee.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andrew M
    Maybe it's been mentioned already...

    Maybe it hasn't.

    Increased costs get passed on to the end-user or customer in most businesses.

    I think that the same phenomenon will occur here.

    Contrary to others who have sung the praises of such a cost increase, I don't think this benefits anybody.

    The whole idea of a "Warrior Special Offer" is to provide massive value to fellow warriors at a price much lower than it would be normally possible to get it at.

    WHEN, (not "if") the additional costs of posting & bumping get passed on to the end-users (that's you & me) WSO's will be priced at a level comparable to Clickbank products.

    $37, $47, $67, whatever. You get the idea.

    Not every $7 WSO is crap. I've purchased some that were, certainly, but I've purchased lots that were great little guides for an outstanding price.

    The age of the high value, low cost WSO is dead.

    Hucksters and Snake Oil Salesmen will remain. Raising costs doesn't change that.

    But the "little guy" trying to share his method will be deterred. And when it comes to the loss of low-cost high value material on the forum....

    Every warrior loses.

    Let's not forget that rip-off artists don't price their products low to begin with.

    If all you're about is making a dollar, you're going to push for the highest fee you can "get away with".

    Does anybody actually think that those types of people are going to be deterred by this cost increase?

    If anything, this is a sad day for warriors looking for value on the WSO board.
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    • Profile picture of the author Lance K
      Originally Posted by Andrew! View Post

      Maybe it's been mentioned already...

      Maybe it hasn't.

      Increased costs get passed on to the end-user or customer in most businesses.

      I think that the same phenomenon will occur here.

      Contrary to others who have sung the praises of such a cost increase, I don't think this benefits anybody.

      The whole idea of a "Warrior Special Offer" is to provide massive value to fellow warriors at a price much lower than it would be normally possible to get it at.

      WHEN, (not "if") the additional costs of posting & bumping get passed on to the end-users (that's you & me) WSO's will be priced at a level comparable to Clickbank products.

      $37, $47, $67, whatever. You get the idea.

      Not every $7 WSO is crap. I've purchased some that were, certainly, but I've purchased lots that were great little guides for an outstanding price.

      The age of the high value, low cost WSO is dead.
      I'll take that bet.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Allen stated his goal. Looking at that, and the way the system runs at present, I can see ways to work those numbers to get closer to what people want in terms of offer quality. Some of them will be tricky, but they can potentially work.

      This is going to be interesting.

      Jeremy,

      There have been plenty of people banned for the things you're talking about. The challenge is that it's not always as clear cut to the people who have to rely on evidence to take action as to people who have no stake in it and can rely on suspicion and interpretation of appearance.

      It's easy to play couch coach. It doesn't mean you're qualified for the actual role.

      Rob,
      It would be 10 times easier just to ban people.
      Yeah. So? It isn't always appropriate or needed, even when people scream that it is.

      I looked at one recently in which someone claimed a seller was lying about a scarcity play. (Specifically, a limit beyond which the price would rise.) Asked the guy about it. Turns out he'd been out of the country. Oh, and by the time he got back, he'd just hit that limit, so he changed it. (Don't ask how I know. The rest of the facts are not for public debate, but they all fit.)

      Hmmm. No malice, and no actual error resulting from the absence. Strangely, that wouldn't keep a lot of people from being certain, and even publicly asserting, that the seller was a crook.

      If someone refuses to issue refunds on a product for which they offered them, that's treated with extreme seriousness. If someone actually is copying another person's work, as in direct swiping, that is also handled harshly. But there's a lot of stuff that gos on that's not anything like as simple as some folks make it out to be.

      And to the person who mentioned learning about fixed vs variable costs and price elasticity, thank you. And also to the folks who've pointed out the proper way to develop the sales process, rather than going for it all as a one-time event on the front end.


      Paul
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      Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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  • Profile picture of the author Sheryl Polomka
    The con artists, the ones with the shady "too good to be true" offers, know
    that they're going to get people to bite on them. So they're not going to
    care. You could make the WSO cost $100 and it won't stop them.

    They know what sells.

    The poor guy who is NOT an Internet marketer but somebody who has a
    modest graphic design or article writing service, just looking to build a name
    for himself, who offers good quality but doesn't have a name yet, is going
    to struggle. He's not going to make a lot of sales and the increase in price
    is going to hurt him.
    So true, the honest, good WSO's that don't sell as well because they aren't full of bull**** hype, are going to struggle. Those that are crap make lots of money from their crap and they won't be bothered by $40 fee.

    I have run a couple of WSO's recently and so far I am $12 in profit - why? Because my WSO is off the first page within hours and is lost in the sea of overhyped crap!

    Raising the price is damaging the good, honest WSO's not the crap! So instead of weeding out the crap I think it is going to weed out many of the good quality WSO's.

    Standards, not Price, is a better way to increase value to the WF and WSOs. Raising the standards would certainly weed out the bad offers. Raising the price only weeds out more marketers, many of them with solid products that are a good value.
    Agreed.

    And some warning would have been nice. I went to bump my WSO and not expecting an increase I went through they payment process on autopilot and clicked 'pay now' before I even noticed that it was $40. If I had noticed I would have thought twice about it!
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
    Originally Posted by shanedavind View Post

    You guys selling information products in this niche got it easy thanks to Allen! I actually have to go out and find JV partners and buy adwords and ezine advertising and test and tweak
    And doesn't THAT suck
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  • Profile picture of the author Taylor French
    Originally Posted by shanedavind View Post

    I'll pay anyone $40 to drive butt loads of targeted traffic to my website in my niche which may I add, is not the IM niche.

    You guys selling information products in this niche got it easy thanks to Allen! I actually have to go out and find JV partners and buy adwords and ezine advertising and test and tweak
    True, but in non-IM niches you can easily get free traffic with article marketing, SEO, etc. You don't have to buy it if you don't want to. Getting IM traffic with article marketing is harder, but not impossible. Getting traffic as a service provider for free is even harder. Or maybe I'm missing something.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    You're all wrong, the price should have been $47.77

    RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author good2go4
    As a non-US writer who does not offer sexy services I do have to say that this price increase will affect my business. I prefer writing ebooks to articles so there is only a small targeted market that are interested in my services anyway and the WFH post I put up went to page two quite quickly. In NZ$ this increase is going to mean for me to bump my thread or post a new one (which I was going to do today lol) means it is going to cost me about $NZ65 which is like half my grocery budget - so for small operators like me this will impact the bottom line.

    That said, by having the WFH thread in my signature that has made a difference and I like the fact that by hopefully giving helpful advice to others my business will increase as I am doing something I like which is reading and responding to forum messages. I am in this for the long haul so I respect the fact that the owners of this forum have as much right to increase their prices as any one else - heavens our government has raised GST (tax) on everything we buy as from Oct 1st - I imagine that is going to have more of an impact on my little business than this rise in the WSO prices. One thing I didn't see as I was reading through the posts here is have all prices gone up for all sections, or just the WSO - if someone could take the time to flick me a PM and just confirm that for me I would appreciate it.

    My 2 cents, or would that be 3.5 US cents???
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  • Profile picture of the author David Bleidt
    For me as a starting Internet Marketer this price increase will be a barrier at the moment. There are many newbies that have great products but no money to spend at the start. That's maybe a problem BUT I personally think this increase is ok, because that way the products will be better in quality.

    hmm but maybe only the price of the product will increase? hmm this is what the real market is about. If someone hast to pay more for his raw material he will increase the price of his product ... Only time will tell ...

    Reptor
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    • Profile picture of the author Tom B
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Reptor View Post

      For me as a starting Internet Marketer this price increase will be a barrier at the moment. There are many newbies that have great products but no money to spend at the start. That's maybe a problem BUT I personally think this increase is ok, because that way the products will be better in quality.

      hmm but maybe only the price of the product will increase? hmm this is what the real market is about. If someone hast to pay more for his raw material he will increase the price of his product ... Only time will tell ...

      Reptor
      If they are selling IM informational products and this is a barrier then "THANK YOU ALLEN" if that stops them.

      They can still post their services in the other sections until they build up more cash.

      Look, as far as I know, the wso section wasn't intended for newbies to cut their teeth for the first time.

      It was about giving warriors a great deal. I heard it was even better before I got here... With that said, most of the products were being created to sell to the market.

      Not created specifically for the wso section like many being sold now.
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      • Profile picture of the author Sheryl Polomka
        Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

        If they are selling IM informational products and this is a barrier then "THANK YOU ALLEN" if that stops them.

        They can still post their services in the other sections until they build up more cash.

        Look, as far as I know, the wso section wasn't intended for newbies to cut their teeth for the first time.

        It was about giving warriors a great deal. I heard it was even better before I got here... With that said, most of the products were being created to sell to the market.

        Not created specifically for the wso section like many being sold now.
        Exactly - this is why there needs to be more rules put in place and not just a price rise to solve this problem. There needs to be a minimum number of posts required before being allowed to post a WSO.

        The rule of giving Warriors a better deal than what is being offered elsewhere needs to be enforced when possible. So they should be a product that is out there but being offered at a special deal, not just something whipped up for the sake of selling and making money.

        Maybe there needs to be some restrictions on wording and income claims - it's the big income claims that usually come hand in hand with crap products, so maybe this needs to be looked at.

        I don't think a price increase on it's own is the answer so I really hope that other solutions are being looked into.
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      • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
        Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

        I heard it was even better before I got here...
        We've all heard that, it's a misprint...

        ~Bill
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        • Profile picture of the author Tom B
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

          We've all heard that, it's a misprint...

          ~Bill
          You shall be called "Out of context Bill".

          I had another name but decided to keep it clean.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Thomas,
        I heard it was even better before I got here...
        That's a rumor that carries it's own proof and explanation.


        Paul
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        Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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        • Profile picture of the author Michael Mayo
          Paul, I was doing everything in my power to not post a reply to Thomas's
          comment...lol Thanks!


          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          Thomas,That's a rumor that carries it's own proof and explanation.


          Paul

          Have a Great Day!
          Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author Mo Goulet
    I remember when the SECRET SITE was selling for $39...1997-98.

    Like Heylia said on the TV show Weeds...

    Everyone has hard times but as my momma used to say...Tuff Shiii....
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  • Profile picture of the author madno
    I couldnt tell because i never had experience in selling at WSO. is it worth for you guys?
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  • Profile picture of the author George Sepich
    I'm fine with the price increase. It should help. But Allen please limit the amount of WSO's one person can post on the first page. I've seen at least one Warrior have as many as five or six WSO's a time running on page one, and with constant bumps every day. That pushes everyone's else down the list that much faster. It would help level out the playing field a bit.

    George
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    • Profile picture of the author thriftgirl62

      Confession:
      I must confess now. I thought I would have to but I
      still wanted to wait and see. I am a WSO VIrgin in the Land of WSO OZ!!

      AVeNuEgirl: I like your "Human Capital" ideas and working like a Tribe where everyone does what they do best for the benefit of everyone without worrying about who getting what, doing the least or the most. Everyone just behaves themselves so much better when they are doing what they enjoy because they want to. When Chris Rempel gets back from Greece next month, we should have a MAKO Dominator Tribe set up - Free of course!

      Are you a Linchpin? __Seth Godin is SoKule!!
      Signature

      I retired in 2005 at 43 and now I give away websites like these for FREE [hosting excluded]

      When you make at least $100+ per month, we split the profit 80/20 and YOU get the 80% Until then, you keep 100% and I'll help you drive traffic, get backlinks and put the domain in your name too!
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      • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
        Originally Posted by George Sepich View Post

        I'm fine with the price increase. It should help. But Allen please limit the amount of WSO's one person can post on the first page. I've seen at least one Warrior have as many as five or six WSO's a time running on page one, and with constant bumps every day. That pushes everyone's else down the list that much faster. It would help level out the playing field a bit.

        George
        George! don't be dissin my 5 WSO's on the front page! (j/k)

        George, please pm me who this is as I need to be watching them very closely! Even better, please get them to visit us on Friday. This is who I need to poke and prod and get the dirt on.
        Originally Posted by Imran Naseem View Post

        The only downside is that if I had 6 FREE wsos that would cost me a whopping $240
        Well, if you have 6 free WSO's then you should be gathering a nice list and have those back end sales funnels in place which were discussed earlier.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sheryl Polomka
      Originally Posted by George Sepich View Post

      I'm fine with the price increase. It should help. But Allen please limit the amount of WSO's one person can post on the first page. I've seen at least one Warrior have as many as five or six WSO's a time running on page one, and with constant bumps every day. That pushes everyone's else down the list that much faster. It would help level out the playing field a bit.

      George
      Yes I agree, there are people with 4 or 5 listings in a row and I always manage to get right under them so get knocked down real fast. Maybe we need to be limited to just one listing on page 1 at a time.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tom B
        Banned
        After Bill shown me the error of my post, I have been waiting for some more responses.

        Heck, I even think people that signed up yesterday would agree.
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      • Profile picture of the author George Wright
        Originally Posted by Sheryl Polomka View Post

        Yes I agree, there are people with 4 or 5 listings in a row and I always manage to get right under them so get knocked down real fast. Maybe we need to be limited to just one listing on page 1 at a time.
        Sheryl, Remember Back in the "Old Days," there was a limit on how many you could have on page one. It was one or two, I forget. and also a limit on how many you could have running at all. 3 or 4. At least that's what a mod told me when I PMed them years ago.

        The limits went out the window now that WSOs run forever.

        They used to be deleted when they dropped of page 6. There was no page 7. You had to time your bump so you didn't get deleted.

        George Wright
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        • Profile picture of the author George Sepich
          Originally Posted by George Wright View Post

          Sheryl, Remember Back in the "Old Days," there was a limit on how many you could have on page one. It was one or two, I forget. and also a limit on how many you could have running at all. 3 or 4. At least that's what a mod told me when I PMed them years ago.

          The limits went out the window now that WSOs run forever.

          They used to be deleted when they dropped of page 6. There was no page 7. You had to time your bump so you didn't get deleted.

          George Wright
          I would like to see the WSO forum go back to some posting limits. It would create more of a balance, so that newbies could still post a WSO, and not have to go straight up against the competition of multiple WSO's by a WSO power player. It's fine to let the marketplace decide what's a good WSO or not, but even the Major League Sports Franchises have salary caps to even the playing field between the small sports markets and the big ones.

          Give the little guys a chance by not letting them get smothered by the big boys 5 WSO's at a time. Each WSO has to stand up on its own merit of course.

          But page 1 of the WSO forum is obviously the big battleground where the action happens. Lets level the battle field so everyone can put up their best offense. No nukes, chemical weapons, or ungodly amount of WSO's allowed. Just my opinion.

          George
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          • Profile picture of the author Tom B
            Banned
            Originally Posted by George Sepich View Post


            Give the little guys a chance by not letting them get smothered by the big boys 5 WSO's at a time. Each WSO has to stand up on its own merit of course.

            But page 1 of the WSO forum is obviously the big battleground where the action happens. Lets level the battle field so everyone can put up their best offense. No nukes, chemical weapons, or ungodly amount of WSO's allowed. Just my opinion.

            George
            The "little guys" need to step up their games.

            If they can't compete on this forum then there is no luck for them in the real world.
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            • Profile picture of the author Hanz
              Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

              The "little guys" need to step up their games.

              If they can't compete on this forum then there is no luck for them in the real world.
              I can agree with that.
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            • Profile picture of the author George Sepich
              Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

              The "little guys" need to step up their games.

              If they can't compete on this forum then there is no luck for them in the real world.
              Hi Thomas,
              There are a lot more newbies and beginning marketers both active and lurking on the Warrior Forum than there are veteran ones, I will guarantee you that. The "little guys" step up there game all the time. There are plenty of rags to riches stories that originate from the WSO forum. From what I have read, one of Allen's goals is to keep posts on the front page longer. Not allowing someone to have 5 at a time will help balance things in that regard to some extent.

              If you want to go with the "step up their game" mentality, lets just go with $150 WSO's.

              George
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              • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                Okay, here's one for you folks who think $40 is too much to pay for
                this service.

                The WSO that I launched today (and it's not even in my sig) has sold 46
                copies already and has made me close to $1,500.

                That's WITHOUT bumping it once.

                I can't buy this kind of exposure at Google, Yahoo, MSN or anywhere
                for 40 bucks.

                I now return you to your regularly scheduled bitch fest.
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                • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
                  Steven,

                  How many of those sales came from your list and the email you sent them compared to new customers that happened to see you in the WSO section? I'm not complaining about the new fee hike, just pointing out that you have assets that some do not have so it's like comparing apples and oranges.

                  Tina
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                  • Profile picture of the author Hanz
                    Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises View Post

                    Steven,

                    How many of those sales came from your list and the email you sent them compared to new customers that happened to see you in the WSO section? I'm not complaining about the new fee hike, just pointing out that you have assets that some do not have so it's like comparing apples and oranges.

                    Tina
                    This is very true. Steven is a powerhouse on here! Not exactly a young duckling trying to make it online. LOL!
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                  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                    Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises View Post

                    Steven,

                    How many of those sales came from your list and the email you sent them compared to new customers that happened to see you in the WSO section? I'm not complaining about the new fee hike, just pointing out that you have assets that some do not have so it's like comparing apples and oranges.

                    Tina
                    Actually, a lot of new customers. Something about this offer attracted
                    people who up until today, didn't know I existed.

                    That's my point. Put something slam bang incredible in front of people's
                    eyes and they'll buy.

                    Stupid me though for NOT adding an option to opt into my list for this
                    WSO because I've essentially lost these people unless they decide to
                    check out some of my future offers.

                    THAT was very stupid marketing on my part.

                    But the point is, if you have something that's really great, people WILL buy
                    and $40 shouldn't be a big stumbling block.

                    Naturally, this is only my opinion and not to at all be construed as fact.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
                      Actually, a lot of new customers. Something about this offer attracted people who up until today, didn't know I existed.
                      In that case, I'm off to check that WSO copy out

                      Tina

                      Steven, that's weird. I went to your profile and it didn't show a WSO posted today. Got a link to the one you're talking about that you launched today?
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                    • Profile picture of the author Sheryl Polomka
                      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                      But the point is, if you have something that's really great, people WILL buy
                      and $40 shouldn't be a big stumbling block.

                      Naturally, this is only my opinion and not to at all be construed as fact.
                      But if you aren't offering some great big, make money fast deal then you're stuffed. If you are offering services like article writing, web design, anything reasonably 'basic' then $40 is a big stumbling block!
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                      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                        Originally Posted by Sheryl Polomka View Post

                        But if you aren't offering some great big, make money fast deal then you're stuffed. If you are offering services like article writing, web design, anything reasonably 'basic' then $40 is a big stumbling block!
                        Well, as I said in a previous post, some stuff at this forum doesn't sell
                        well PERIOD...regardless of price.

                        If $40 is too much for a service like the ones you mentioned above, trust me,
                        $20 isn't much better...not if you're writing 500 word article packs of 10
                        for $7 a pack.

                        That is just an INSANE business model...even at ZERO cost advertising.

                        See, that's the problem. Some people offer services that, if they really
                        were honest with themselves, they wouldn't offer if advertising was free,
                        not when they're making what comes out to like $5 an hour.

                        It's the business model that's the problem...NOT the cost of the ad.

                        But that's another can of worms that I'm not going to get into here
                        because it's beyond the scope of this thread.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                        Banned
                        Originally Posted by Sheryl Polomka View Post

                        But if you aren't offering some great big, make money fast deal then you're stuffed. If you are offering services like article writing, web design, anything reasonably 'basic' then $40 is a big stumbling block!
                        Sheryl, are you really trying to tell me you have no repeat customers?
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                        • Profile picture of the author Sheryl Polomka
                          Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                          Sheryl, are you really trying to tell me you have no repeat customers?
                          Yes Thomas, thankfully I do have repeat customers, and if it wasn't for them I would be running at a loss right now. I am just starting out with this though so I only have a few and need to keep running WSO's if I am to build up my customer base.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                            Banned
                            Originally Posted by Sheryl Polomka View Post

                            Yes Thomas, thankfully I do have repeat customers, and if it wasn't for them I would be running at a loss right now. I am just starting out with this though so I only have a few and need to keep running WSO's if I am to build up my customer base.
                            You need to start finding out how much each customer's lifetime value is. That way you will have an understanding of how much you can or want to spend to get that customer.

                            Expand with complimentary products/services to try and increase that lifetime value.

                            Start your own affiliate program with your current customers as a base.

                            The wso section is just another traffic source. Most people just throw out a report, make money and on to the next report or service.

                            That isn't how you want to do it. You will always be chasing the money.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
                    Originally Posted by George Sepich View Post


                    Give the little guys a chance by not letting them get smothered by the big boys 5 WSO's at a time. Each WSO has to stand up on its own merit of course.

                    But page 1 of the WSO forum is obviously the big battleground where the action happens. Lets level the battle field so everyone can put up their best offense. No nukes, chemical weapons, or ungodly amount of WSO's allowed. Just my opinion.

                    George
                    George, part of me hears your concerns, and part of me sees the kiddie pool where some need to go first before they go in the big kids pool.

                    But even the big kids have an Achilles tendon. I'm torn on your thoughts on this. I think for now if the person is a major contributor to the forum then let them ride it. If I am really upset by it I would offer something completely different than what they offer or just strive to get as many great offers together as they have and give them a run for their money.

                    There is tons of money all over the web. This forum is not the only place to get it. Do those who have been here longer and have lists like Steven have an unfair advantage or have they truly earned the right to be there? Should they be punished with limits for having good offers and being agressive marketers?

                    Does google adwords limit the amount of ads and keywords a marketer can use in their campaign? Why would WF be any different? Should it be?
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                    • Profile picture of the author George Sepich
                      Originally Posted by avenuegirl View Post

                      George, part of me hears your concerns, and part of me sees the kiddie pool where some need to go first before they go in the big kids pool.

                      But even the big kids have an Achilles tendon. I'm torn on your thoughts on this. I think for now if the person is a major contributor to the forum then let them ride it. If I am really upset by it I would offer something completely different than what they offer or just strive to get as many great offers together as they have and give them a run for their money.

                      There is tons of money all over the web. This forum is not the only place to get it. Do those who have been here longer and have lists like Steven have an unfair advantage or have they truly earned the right to be there? Should they be punished with limits for having good offers and being agressive marketers?

                      Does google adwords limit the amount of ads and keywords a marketer can use in their campaign? Why would WF be any different? Should it be?
                      I think the Warrior Forum should be different. The WSO forum is a special place. A place where we can get a great deal we can't find elsewhere. A place where you can launch an idea an turn it into big bucks. However if the big boy marketers need the WSO forum so much that they need to run 5 WSO's on the front page, maybe they are not as big as they portray. They can go market in bigger ponds. WSO's are for Guru's as much as Newbies don't get me wrong.

                      My whole point on this is not to give someone with deep pockets or a deep advantage even more advantage in the WSO forum.

                      Most people will either hate my last statement or agree with it. I'm just sharing my feelings and opinion on the matter. This is a forum, which last time I checked the defintion is a "discussion of questions of public interest".

                      I think the WSO forum should be different.

                      George
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                      • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
                        Originally Posted by George Sepich View Post

                        I think the Warrior Forum should be different. The WSO forum is a special place. A place where we can get a great deal we can't find elsewhere. A place where you can launch an idea an turn it into big bucks. However if the big boy marketers need the WSO forum so much that they need to run 5 WSO's on the front page, maybe they are not as big as they portray. They can go market in bigger ponds. WSO's are for Guru's as much as Newbies don't get me wrong.

                        My whole point on this is not to give someone with deep pockets or a deep advantage even more advantage in the WSO forum.

                        Most people will either hate my last statement or agree with it. I'm just sharing my feelings and opinion on the matter. This is a forum, which last time I checked the defintion is a "discussion of questions of public interest".

                        I think the WSO forum should be different.

                        George
                        Well, it's different by $20 now. Looks like you got your wish.



                        ~M~
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                      • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                        Banned
                        Originally Posted by George Sepich View Post

                        I think the Warrior Forum should be different. The WSO forum is a special place. A place where we can get a great deal we can't find elsewhere. A place where you can launch an idea an turn it into big bucks. However if the big boy marketers need the WSO forum so much that they need to run 5 WSO's on the front page, maybe they are not as big as they portray. They can go market in bigger ponds. WSO's are for Guru's as much as Newbies don't get me wrong.

                        My whole point on this is not to give someone with deep pockets or a deep advantage even more advantage in the WSO forum.

                        Most people will either hate my last statement or agree with it. I'm just sharing my feelings and opinion on the matter. This is a forum, which last time I checked the defintion is a "discussion of questions of public interest".

                        I think the WSO forum should be different.

                        George
                        George, I like you. I really do but I got to say that is the most BS post I have seen on this thread. You actually beat Hanz.

                        Is there anywhere else you would like us not to advertise? Shall we stop adwords so you can play? What about article marketing?
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                        • Profile picture of the author Hanz
                          Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                          George, I like you. I really do but I got to say that is the most BS post I have seen on this thread. You actually beat Hanz.

                          Is there anywhere else you would like us not to advertise? Shall we stop adwords so you can play? What about article marketing?
                          I actually wrote mine in haste and it was more in regards to article-writers and part-time workers in general. Actually you're right, it was whacked!
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                        • Profile picture of the author George Sepich
                          Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                          George, I like you. I really do but I got to say that is the most BS post I have seen on this thread. You actually beat Hanz.

                          Is there anywhere else you would like us not to advertise? Shall we stop adwords so you can play? What about article marketing?
                          Thanks Thomas. I like you too. I really do. This is one big long active thread, and if my words can make you think my post was the biggest BS of them all, . at least I got your attention. I stand by my opiinion.

                          George
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                      • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
                        Originally Posted by George Sepich View Post

                        I think the Warrior Forum should be different. The WSO forum is a special place. A place where we can get a great deal we can't find elsewhere. A place where you can launch an idea an turn it into big bucks. However if the big boy marketers need the WSO forum so much that they need to run 5 WSO's on the front page, maybe they are not as big as they portray. They can go market in bigger ponds. WSO's are for Guru's as much as Newbies don't get me wrong.

                        My whole point on this is not to give someone with deep pockets or a deep advantage even more advantage in the WSO forum.

                        Most people will either hate my last statement or agree with it. I'm just sharing my feelings and opinion on the matter. This is a forum, which last time I checked the defintion is a "discussion of questions of public interest".

                        I think the WSO forum should be different.

                        George
                        Yeah! That's what everybody has been missing. It's not how long you've been a member, it's not how much you contribute...it's if you don't make enough money!

                        If you make too much, you should get no advantage here.

                        And if you start out broke, or as a small player, pray tell, at what point do you make the leap to not being allowed to market here?

                        Just curious.

                        All the best,
                        Michael
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                      • Profile picture of the author sal64
                        Originally Posted by George Sepich View Post

                        I think the Warrior Forum should be different. The WSO forum is a special place. A place where we can get a great deal we can't find elsewhere. A place where you can launch an idea an turn it into big bucks. However if the big boy marketers need the WSO forum so much that they need to run 5 WSO's on the front page, maybe they are not as big as they portray. They can go market in bigger ponds. WSO's are for Guru's as much as Newbies don't get me wrong.

                        My whole point on this is not to give someone with deep pockets or a deep advantage even more advantage in the WSO forum.

                        Most people will either hate my last statement or agree with it. I'm just sharing my feelings and opinion on the matter. This is a forum, which last time I checked the defintion is a "discussion of questions of public interest".

                        I think the WSO forum should be different.

                        George

                        You raise a good point George. I posted similar in the other thread yesterday.

                        Everyone should be given a fair go, regardless of their status. Howver, people who can bump 5 WSO's all at once have a super advantage, so maybe this isn't such a good idea.

                        I'll restate that I always believed that the spirit of the WSO was to offer great products at a genuine discount... as opposed to a production line of $7 reports which only sell for $7. There is a big difference here.

                        Raising the price is an ok idea, and time will tell if it is the right decision, but I still feel that higher levels of accountability and quality control will be more effective.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                          Banned
                          Originally Posted by sal64 View Post

                          You raise a good point George. I posted similar in the other thread yesterday.

                          Everyone should be given a fair go, regardless of their status. Howver, people who can bump 5 WSO's all at once have a super advantage, so maybe this isn't such a good idea.
                          They also paid 5 times more and need to generate 5 times more to break even.

                          If you can't compete then you need to develop a better sales funnel where you are able to spend more.
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                • Profile picture of the author Michael Mayo
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              • Profile picture of the author Hanz
                Hmmm, I think this actually might work after all. Even though I was upset earlier with the price increase since it came out of left field and I went on one of my typical trolling crusades (sorry Thomas ), I think this can indeed help clean up the WSO forum after all. I'm noticing the WSO forum is a bit slower tonight but it could be my imagination. Will look to see how things progress over the next few weeks or months and whether quality truly prevails in the end! No way to tell just yet.
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              • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                Banned
                Originally Posted by George Sepich View Post

                Hi Thomas,
                There are a lot more newbies and beginning marketers both active and lurking on the Warrior Forum than there are veteran ones, I will guarantee you that. The "little guys" step up there game all the time. There are plenty of rags to riches stories that originate from the WSO forum. From what I have read, one of Allen's goals is to keep posts on the front page longer. Not allowing someone to have 5 at a time will help balance things in that regard to some extent.

                If you want to go with the "step up their game" mentality, lets just go with $150 WSO's.

                George
                Not a problem with me, George. The higher the better.

                Like you said, part of the goals was to keep the posts on the front page longer. I don't remember seeing Allen state it couldn't be several from the same person.

                Basically, you want Allen to control others because you don't feel you, for example, can compete.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Nowadays $20 is a meal at McDonalds. $40 is a meal at a middle quality restaraunt.

    Neither are lacking for customers.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      Nowadays $20 is a meal at McDonalds. $40 is a meal at a middle quality restaraunt.

      Neither are lacking for customers.
      Man, remind me to bring my own food when I visit your part of the country! $20 for a meal at McDonald's? $40 for median quality restaurant meal? HOLY COW!
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post

        Man, remind me to bring my own food when I visit your part of the country! $20 for a meal at McDonald's? $40 for median quality restaurant meal? HOLY COW!
        I just took my daughter out to lunch the other day ... restaurant called Cheeseburger in Paradise .... $50 for two, and that's the cost of a Cheeseburger in Paradise.
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        • Profile picture of the author Caleb Spilchen
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          I just took my daughter out to lunch the other day ... restaurant called Cheeseburger in Paradise .... $50 for two, and that's the cost of a Cheeseburger in Paradise.
          nothing's cheap in paradise.. not even a burger

          By the way.. .how was the burger?

          Caleb
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        • Profile picture of the author KimW
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          I just took my daughter out to lunch the other day ... restaurant called Cheeseburger in Paradise .... $50 for two, and that's the cost of a Cheeseburger in Paradise.
          I wonder how close you are. I just saw that place a week or so ago.
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by KimW View Post

            I wonder how close you are. I just saw that place a week or so ago.
            I live in Barboursville, which I would not be surprised if you haven't heard of it but it's halfway between Fredericksburg, where the Cheeseburger place is and Charlottesville ... only out in the sticks.
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            • Profile picture of the author KimW
              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

              I live in Barboursville, which I would not be surprised if you haven't heard of it but it's halfway between Fredericksburg, where the Cheeseburger place is and Charlottesville ... only out in the sticks.
              Ah, I have heard of it, but don't venture in that area often.But after you posted that I went and asked my wife where we had seen Cheeseburger in Paradise and she told be F'burg. She's not as old and senile as I am.
              My main ventures are from the River City to NoVa where most of my family is. And at that price range I doubt if I can convince her to try it now.


              Now back to the regularly scheduled scandal on the WF!
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      • Profile picture of the author KimW
        Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post

        Man, remind me to bring my own food when I visit your part of the country! $20 for a meal at McDonald's? $40 for median quality restaurant meal? HOLY COW!
        Well, I'm feeding more that one.
        But then again, in another thread someone posted that gas was only a dollar fifty seven in florida.Where I'm at if I can get it for two fifty a gallon I feel I'm gettting a bargain.

        But a WSO is still a bargain at $40.
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
          Originally Posted by KimW View Post

          Well, I'm feeding more that one.
          But then again, in another thread someone posted that gas was only a dollar fifty seven in florida.Where I'm at if I can get it for two fifty a gallon I feel I'm gettting a bargain.
          I doubt that anywhere in Florida gas is $1.57 a gallon. It runs about $2.50 where I live in Florida, and gas taxes are over 50 cents alone in Florida. According to this site:

          Florida Gas Prices - Find Cheap Gas Prices in Florida

          the cheapest gas in all of Florida is $2.49 at the time of this posting.
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  • Profile picture of the author Thaddaeus T. Hogg
    As far as why he did it, I could probably make a better guess than most people, but it would still be just that: A guess. No point in gussing on something like this that I can see. The fact is that Allen has access to information that could help to properly inform such decisions that the rest of us don't.
    Shewt, ain't no need to be guessin why he raised the price! It's purty obvious tain't it? ALLEN SAYS IS BROKE! You done heared it first right here!

    Have you ever seen a picture of Allen Says? That there poor feller LOOkS hungry. Heck, he ain't even gots enough nutrition in his poor body to keep his hair from growin back inside his head!

    Heck, I am a thankin that he should jump that there WSO price up to $100. I fer one would be a willin to pay it beens I done struck oil here in Stumpwoody!

    Allen, I just want to be tellin you somethin from the bottom a my peapicken heart...

    You have an open invite to come on down to Stumpwoody and set yoreself right up to ole Thad's supper table! There's plenty a vittles to be a goin around but if you DO happen to see somethin layin beside the road, feel free to bring it with you and add it to the feast!
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    • Profile picture of the author George Wright
      Originally Posted by Thaddaeus T. Hogg View Post


      Heck, I am a thankin that he should jump that there WSO price up to $100. I fer one would be a willin to pay it beens I done struck oil here in Stumpwoody!
      Thaddaeus,

      You aren't even a War Room Member. How can you Pay for a WSO?

      George Wright
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  • Profile picture of the author Imran Naseem
    Banned
    The only downside is that if I had 6 FREE wsos that would cost me a whopping $240
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    • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
      Originally Posted by Imran Naseem View Post

      The only downside is that if I had 6 FREE wsos that would cost me a whopping $240
      Only if you had no back end and weren't building a relationship with a list.

      RoD
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      • Profile picture of the author Thaddaeus T. Hogg
        Only if you had no back end and weren't building a relationship
        Howdy Rod you ole rascal! I done heared a little gossip bout you down in Mexico and a certain senorita! Would that comment be havin something to do with that... ohhhhhh, I have to be appologizen to Allen Says; I done went an hijacked this here thread where we was tryin to raise him some money! I now return you folks back to our previous programmin!
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  • Profile picture of the author Maddi
    Woah boy. $40 or not, someone please remind me to post a controversial new thread the next time I post a new wso and have a link in my sig

    6 pages? Nice!

    Wish I had an active WSO lol

    Maddi
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    • Profile picture of the author George Wright
      Originally Posted by Maddi View Post

      Woah boy. $40 or not, someone please remind me to post a controversial new thread the next time I post a new wso and have a link in my sig

      6 pages? Nice!

      Wish I had an active WSO lol

      Maddi
      Maddi, Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
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  • Profile picture of the author Aaron.Scott
    I saw this coming for a long time... I guarantee you won't see as many "new" WSO's posted now.
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    • Profile picture of the author George Wright
      Originally Posted by Aaron.Scott View Post

      I saw this coming for a long time... I guarantee you won't see as many "new" WSO's posted now.
      Wanna bet $40? There are already "new" WSOs on page two.

      George Wright
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  • Profile picture of the author zenji
    In my opinion this is a very smart move. The low price allows so many people to abuse the system without "blinking".

    Cheers to that Allen!

    Dennis
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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin Marshall
    Overall I like this change. Something really needed to be done, and this is a step in the right direction.

    Personally, I think we will see higher priced WSOs. I don't think we are going to see less offers in the WSO section. Hopefully this will increase the quality of the products offered in the WSO section.

    The cost to advertise a WSO will ultimately be passed onto the buyers as sellers adjust their prices.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
    Originally Posted by George Sepich View Post

    But Allen please limit the amount of WSO's one person can post on the first page. I've seen at least one Warrior have as many as five or six WSO's a time running on page one, and with constant bumps every day. That pushes everyone's else down the list that much faster. It would help level out the playing field a bit.
    Originally Posted by Sheryl Polomka View Post

    Yes I agree, there are people with 4 or 5 listings in a row and I always manage to get right under them so get knocked down real fast. Maybe we need to be limited to just one listing on page 1 at a time.
    Since we all know who is the subject of these WSOs perhaps we should also consider the contribution that person makes to the forum. And since it's generally done behind the curtain perhaps a little latitude is also in order. Just my personal opinion...

    ~Bill
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    • Profile picture of the author Hanz
      Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

      Since we all know who is the subject of these WSOs perhaps we should also consider the contribution that person makes to the forum. And since it's generally done behind the curtain perhaps a little latitude is also in order. Just my personal opinion...

      ~Bill
      Hmmm, agreed. Sorry for my outburst earlier Allen. I was ticked off but now I'm seeing the light. Also thanks to Bill Farnham for taking notice of my little disrespectful quip. It does seem like a silly post now that I read it. No harm done I hope.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
      Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

      Since we all know who is the subject of these WSOs perhaps we should also consider the contribution that person makes to the forum. And since it's generally done behind the curtain perhaps a little latitude is also in order. Just my personal opinion...
      Not all of us! I have no idea who they're talking about. I wish someone would tell me, because now I'm curious.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sheryl Polomka
      Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

      Since we all know who is the subject of these WSOs perhaps we should also consider the contribution that person makes to the forum. And since it's generally done behind the curtain perhaps a little latitude is also in order. Just my personal opinion...

      ~Bill
      Yes I do realize this person does contribute enormously to the forum, but having that many WSO's in a row really helps significantly in the fact that posts get knocked down to page 2 so quickly. And it's not a great feeling when you are right under them and get knocked down so fast.

      Sheryl, Remember Back in the "Old Days," there was a limit on how many you could have on page one. It was one or two, I forget. and also a limit on how many you could have running at all. 3 or 4. At least that's what a mod told me when I PMed them years ago.

      The limits went out the window now that WSOs run forever.

      They used to be deleted when they dropped of page 6. There was no page 7. You had to time your bump so you didn't get deleted.

      George Wright
      I do remember the good old days I think the limit is a good idea, even if it's limited to 2 instead of 1, just to make it fair for everyone. I don't have a problem with WSO's lasting longer than 7 pages, as you get knocked down past page 7 quite quickly these days, but I would like to see a limit of the number of posts on page 1.
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  • Profile picture of the author Phillips Pierce
    I don't know if this is going to help deter people from making junk WSO's or not. Personally I don't think so because the average joe who makes a junk WSO probably didn't waste his time (however little he put into it) expecting to make only 20 dollars profit.

    However the people complaining about the price hike being too steep or detering "newbies" need to consider a few things. First of all if you are a newbie DON'T release a WSO. This is a BUSINESS forum and a newbie marketer shouldn't be teaching business in the first place. It is this kind of mindset "teaching marketing to make money from marketing" which is the reason most WSO's are junk. Don't teach marketing UNTIL you KNOW marketing inside and out. Don't waste my time. Don't waste my money. Don't waste your reputation.

    From this flows my second point. If you've been successful in business and marketing then STOP complaining about a 20 dollar increase in cost. The people complaining about the price hike make me wonder if they truly make any money outside selling WSO's or not, because if they were and they were successful at it (which they should be to be teaching others how to do it) 40 bucks should be pocket change. If your WSO crashes and burns for WHATEVER reason and ends up not even making a single sale is the 40 bucks you lost really going to make you go hungry this month?

    If it does then please don't come on here trying to teach others how to make money online, because you obviously don't have any yourself if you cant even risk 40 bucks of your own.

    On a semi-related note I expect the under 15 dollar WSO's to be affected by this most. We're probably going to see a reduction of junk in this price range. By and large WSO's in this price range, from experience, are trash meant to make a few pennies and trick you on to peoples lists.
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    • Profile picture of the author Hanz
      Originally Posted by Phillips Pierce View Post

      I don't know if this is going to help deter people from making junk WSO's or not. Personally I don't think so because the average joe who makes a junk WSO probably didn't waste his time (however little he put into it) expecting to make only 20 dollars profit.

      However the people complaining about the price hike being too steep or detering "newbies" need to consider a few things. First of all if you are a newbie DON'T release a WSO. This is a BUSINESS forum and a newbie marketer shouldn't be teaching business in the first place. It is this kind of mindset "teaching marketing to make money from marketing" which is the reason most WSO's are junk. Don't teach marketing UNTIL you KNOW marketing inside and out. Don't waste my time. Don't waste my money. Don't waste your reputation.

      From this flows my second point. If you've been successful in business and marketing then STOP complaining about a 20 dollar increase in cost. The people complaining about the price hike make me wonder if they truly make any money outside selling WSO's or not, because if they were and they were successful at it (which they should be to be teaching others how to do it) 40 bucks should be pocket change. If your WSO crashes and burns for WHATEVER reason and ends up not even making a single sale is the 40 bucks you lost really going to make the difference between you going hungry this month?

      If it does then please don't come on here trying to teach others how to make money online, because you obviously don't have any yourself if you cant even risk 40 bucks of your own.

      On a semi-related note I expect the under 15 dollar WSO's to be affected by this most. We're probably going to see a reduction of junk in this price range. By and large WSO's in this price range, from experience, are trash meant to make a few pennies and trick you on to peoples lists.
      Hmmm, I'm not so sure. From what I've seen, many of the 'reputable' Warriors are also selling trash but thanks to having a lot of good friends to help hype their trash with positive testimonials in a typical 'scratch my back and I'll scratch yours', they can sell a lot of their products to vulnerable newbies who really don't know any better.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Phillips Pierce View Post

      On a semi-related note I expect the under 15 dollar WSO's to be affected by this most. We're probably going to see a reduction of junk in this price range. By and large WSO's in this price range, from experience, are trash meant to make a few pennies and trick you on to peoples lists.
      See the $13 Flip Ace WSO that I haven't bumped in ages in my signature. Take a look at the feedback and tell me it's trash. Also, there is no list.
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      • Profile picture of the author Phillips Pierce
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        See the $13 Flip Ace WSO that I haven't bumped in ages in my signature. Take a look at the feedback and tell me it's trash. Also, there is no list.
        I wasn't directing my comment at you or anyone specifically. I don't know you or your product. Feedback doesn't mean a whole lot to me because unfortunately a number of people are willing to leave positive feedback in exchange for a favor returned, free product or other mutually beneficial reasons. I am not insinuating that this is the case with your product, as I said I do not know you or your product and for all I know your product could be a genuinely very high quality offer.

        All I was saying is that most products in that price range are generally poor quality. In every price range there are nuggets of gold and people really trying to deliver maximum value. I was talking as a generality from my experience.
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Phillips Pierce View Post

          I wasn't directing my comment at you or anyone specifically. I don't know you or your product. Feedback doesn't mean a whole lot to me because unfortunately a number of people are willing to leave positive feedback in exchange for a favor returned, free product or other mutually beneficial reasons. I am not insinuating that this is the case with your product, as I said I do not know you or your product and for all I know your product could be a genuinely very high quality offer.

          All I was saying is that most products in that price range are generally poor quality. In every price range there are nuggets of gold and people really trying to deliver maximum value. I was talking as a generality from my experience.
          Forget my product ... but my point is that on this forum there are a lot of quality products for $15 and under. Not just mine ... I've bought quite a few that were outstanding quality. For me, I've been selling Flip Ace for so long, I just want people to benefit from it. Some ebooks I just give away. Quite a few Warriors have low cost or free products just to give some value to the Warrior Forum. It isn't always about tons of money, at least not on this forum.
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  • Profile picture of the author paulie888
    I think this will greatly reduce the number of crappy WSOs put out on here, and it'll definitely make the wanna-be scammers/rip-off artists think twice about running one. Hopefully this will also reduce the frequency of new/bumped WSOs popping up (I suspect this will do the trick nicely, at least for a while), as especially during the mornings and afternoons it seems like your WSO can barely stay on the first page for 4-6 hours!
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  • Profile picture of the author winebuddy
    Give the little guys a chance by not letting them get smothered by the big boys 5 WSO's at a time.
    Right... let's give them a better chance than anyone else at making some coin.

    Then - when they go out to the real world and spend a few hundred bucks on promotion, etc, THEN they will lose their butts.

    Yeah - that's fair.
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  • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
    Learn to market better. Publish or perish, as they say in the academic world. This is the new reality here, folks. We all need to stop the b*tching and adapt. That includes me. I kind of had a knee-jerk reaction too, when I first heard earlier today. It's human nature. The cost of doing business just went up. OK, so be it. Now it's on all of us to adjust to the new reality and get on with getting on. One positive to take from this, if you were inclined to think it was the sky falling: you'll learn to become better at developing repeat customers. Or you won't and this will probably hurt a lot more. Up to you.

    John
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    • Profile picture of the author Hanz
      Originally Posted by Zeus66 View Post

      Learn to market better. Publish or perish, as they say in the academic world. This is the new reality here, folks. We all need to stop the b*tching and adapt. That includes me. I kind of had a knee-jerk reaction too, when I first heard earlier today. It's human nature. The cost of doing business just went up. OK, so be it. Now it's on all of us to adjust to the new reality and get on with getting on. One positive to take from this, if you were inclined to think it was the sky falling: you'll learn to become better at developing repeat customers. Or you won't and this will probably hurt a lot more. Up to you.

      John
      Agreed. Good post. The place is indeed taken for granted.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    Tracking WSO activity right now isn't likely to be an accurate indicator of anything. The two threads going on the subject are causing a lot of extra attention to be paid to that section. People who haven't been there in a while want to see if anything has changed, and a lot of bumps are probably "artificial".

    Wait a few days for the two main threads on this topic to die down, then re-measure. My guess is you will get a better idea if anything has really changed.

    All the best,
    Michael
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

      Tracking WSO activity right now isn't likely to be an accurate indicator of anything. The two threads going on the subject are causing a lot of extra attention to be paid to that section. People who haven't been there in a while want to see if anything has changed, and a lot of bumps are probably "artificial".

      Wait a few days for the two main threads on this topic to die down, then re-measure. My guess is you will get a better idea if anything has really changed.

      All the best,
      Michael
      Whats an artificial bump?

      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

      Okay, here's one for you folks who think $40 is too much to pay for
      this service.

      The WSO that I launched today (and it's not even in my sig) has sold 46
      copies already and has made me close to $1,500.

      That's WITHOUT bumping it once.

      I can't buy this kind of exposure at Google, Yahoo, MSN or anywhere
      for 40 bucks.

      I now return you to your regularly scheduled bitch fest.
      Holy crap it must be good to be you.
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

        Whats an artificial bump?
        Hi John,

        I'm referring to those people who may not bump at all, or were not planning on bumping, but understood how many extra eyeballs were going to be in the WSO section.

        While they are still "real" bumps in the strictest sense, for the time being, they may be giving an artificial result.

        All the best,
        Michael
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    • Profile picture of the author Rukshan
      Originally Posted by Diver's View Post

      i would suggest posting a wso cost $40
      bumping thread = $20
      $40 ok for a new thread in WSO. But we need multiple times to bump the thread. So $20 is ok for that.
      Anyway this is a very good tip to reduce JUNK WSO. Well done Allen!
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      • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
        Originally Posted by blog8491 View Post

        $40 ok for a new thread in WSO. But we need multiple times to bump the thread. So $20 is ok for that.
        Anyway this is a very good tip to reduce JUNK WSO. Well done Allen!
        Defeats the whole purpose. C'mon, think about it.
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  • Profile picture of the author MilesT
    So, Is this the fastest moving thread ever? Cause ... dang. The Post count and View count are going nuts and its only been alive a few hours. Ack! can't.... keep....up
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  • Profile picture of the author ZaraK
    I'm all for it if it reduces the crap.

    If we're just going to get goldplated crap, then, not so much.
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  • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
    When I went to bump my own wso thread like I do every day I was surprised to see that the fee had been increased to $40. Then I bumped it anyways and will continue doing so every day like I have been. I'm selling a service that I'm using as a loss leader anyways so what do I care. Last month we brought in nearly $20k from our wso. So whether I'm paying $600 or $1200 for the bumps every month doesn't concern me in the slightest. What matters to me is the overall income generated at the end of the month.
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    • Profile picture of the author oneplusone
      Originally Posted by mattlaclear View Post

      When I went to bump my own wso thread like I do every day I was surprised to see that the fee had been increased to $40. Then I bumped it anyways and will continue doing so every day like I have been. I'm selling a service that I'm using as a loss leader anyways so what do I care. Last month we brought in nearly $20k from our wso. So whether I'm paying $600 or $1200 for the bumps every month doesn't concern me in the slightest. What matters to me is the overall income generated at the end of the month.
      You are running business, the way business is supposed to be run in the real world.

      A lot of people on here have no understanding of real business, terms like customer lifetime value are foreign to them.

      Many warriors really need to pick up a book by someone like Jay Abraham, and learn the basics.
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    • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
      Originally Posted by mattlaclear View Post

      I'm selling a service that I'm using as a loss leader anyways so what do I care.
      There's the best lesson I've seen on the entire forum all day. Guy gets it.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by Zeus66 View Post

        There's the best lesson I've seen on the entire forum all day. Guy gets it.
        So can you help "me" get it...? My man, zuess, as you have helped me get it before?

        Where do I learn about these "loss leaders"? Im sure I have used some in the past but probably not the way they are being referred to here.

        Is this the act of giving away a free report w aff links in it? Or links out to services and products? Offers to join a mailing list?
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        • Profile picture of the author Tom B
          Banned
          Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

          So can you help "me" get it...? My man, zuess, as you have helped me get it before?

          Where do I learn about these "loss leaders"? Im sure I have used some in the past but probably not the way they are being referred to here.

          Is this the act of giving away a free report w aff links in it? Or links out to services and products?

          John, it isn't as difficult as you may think.

          Say you are selling a service for cheaper then it costs to deliver. So the service costs you $40 but you are only charging $20.

          You know a certain percentage will purchase a higher valued service where you will start to make a profit.

          A certain percentage will purchase 3 months of the higher valued service which will give you even more profits.

          Now add in complimentary products and you will see more profits.

          You lose money on the first transaction but end up making profits throughout your sales funnel.
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        • Profile picture of the author Michael Mayo
          Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

          So can you help "me" get it...? My man, zuess,...
          John, You may want to at least spell his title correctly before you ask!

          Have a Great Day!
          Michael
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          • Profile picture of the author John Durham
            Originally Posted by Michael Mayo View Post

            John, You may want to at least spell his title correctly before you ask!

            Have a Great Day!
            Michael
            You are right, I put an extra "s" he sometimes goes by zues... like in the wso section... this man has enlightened me before either way... Just trying to give props where they are due.

            Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

            Hi John,

            I'm referring to those people who may not bump at all, or were not planning on bumping, but understood how many extra eyeballs were going to be in the WSO section.

            While they are still "real" bumps in the strictest sense, for the time being, they may be giving an artificial result.

            All the best,
            Michael
            That is way deep, very true. It may be a "spike" and not a good indicator of the normal averages...
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Mayo
    Steven...lol
    Delete your quote of my post.I have deleted my original post...
    I was just messing with you!

    Have a Great Day!
    Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author Gclunis
    Honestly, I completely understand why they did it. The level of crap that was being posted in the WSO on a daily basis had gotten to a point that was just getting uncontrollable.

    With the increase in price people will think twice before making their posts and thus decrease the spam.

    However, on a personal level this affected me negatively due to the fact that I was just about to launch a WSO that I have been working on. However, as a broke college kid who has yet to buy textbooks (very expensive) I will not be able to afford the extra $20 :[

    I love the idea, but also it has kind of screwed me over and put me in a position that may result in alot of wasted time.

    Gregg
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    • Profile picture of the author drmani
      Originally Posted by Gclunis View Post

      However, on a personal level this affected me negatively due to the fact that I was just about to launch a WSO that I have been working on. However, as a broke college kid who has yet to buy textbooks (very expensive) I will not be able to afford the extra $20 :[

      I love the idea, but also it has kind of screwed me over and put me in a position that may result in alot of wasted time.

      Gregg
      How about asking someone to join you as a partner? Offer a share of your profit,
      e.g. 100% of all sales UNTIL the cost of running a WSO is paid up, and then a
      smaller percentage of the profit?

      Get creative. JV deals 'out there' are made on similar terms - just with a couple
      more zero'es after the figures

      All success
      Dr.Mani
      Signature
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      • Profile picture of the author Matthew Shane Roe
        Originally Posted by drmani View Post

        How about asking someone to join you as a partner? Offer a share of your profit,
        e.g. 100% of all sales UNTIL the cost of running a WSO is paid up, and then a
        smaller percentage of the profit?

        Get creative. JV deals 'out there' are made on similar terms - just with a couple
        more zero'es after the figures

        All success
        Dr.Mani
        He forgot about his partnership with me
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    • Profile picture of the author Lance K
      Originally Posted by Gclunis View Post

      Honestly, I completely understand why they did it. The level of crap that was being posted in the WSO on a daily basis had gotten to a point that was just getting uncontrollable.

      With the increase in price people will think twice before making their posts and thus decrease the spam.

      However, on a personal level this affected me negatively due to the fact that I was just about to launch a WSO that I have been working on. However, as a broke college kid who has yet to buy textbooks (very expensive) I will not be able to afford the extra $20 :[

      I love the idea, but also it has kind of screwed me over and put me in a position that may result in alot of wasted time.

      Gregg
      Gregg, I tell ya what...

      Get a few respected Warriors to review your offer and get their feedback. If they think that your offer is quality and is ready to be unleashed on the market, I'll cover the extra $20 for ya.
      Signature
      "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
      ~ Zig Ziglar
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  • Profile picture of the author drmani
    Originally Posted by Maddi View Post

    What do you think of this change?
    Your thoughts?

    Maddi Murtaza
    For good WSOs run by good marketers, the price hike won't matter.

    For the others, it's a chance to change and learn.

    Some thoughts:

    * If your WSO has 'quality' issues, fix them. Do whatever it takes.

    * If your problem is making more sales, market your effort better.
    Look at this as a mini-business building effort rather than a quick
    cash puller. Negotiate JVs with people - to fund your cost of
    running the WSO, spreading word (both on forum and off, within the
    rules), and driving more eyeballs to your offer.

    The good news.

    It only costs $40 or $80 (or even $200) to test in this sandbox.

    'Out there' it could run to several hundred (if not THOUSANDS) of
    dollars to even get such tests running - and then, you may find
    out you have a dud!

    Which would you prefer? Risking $40 (or $100) - or many times
    more?

    I just convinced myself - and bumped my WSO

    All success
    Dr.Mani
    Signature
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by drmani View Post

      For good WSOs run by good marketers, the price hike won't matter.

      For the others, it's a chance to change and learn.

      Some thoughts:

      * If your WSO has 'quality' issues, fix them. Do whatever it takes.

      * If your problem is making more sales, market your effort better.
      Look at this as a mini-business building effort rather than a quick
      cash puller. Negotiate JVs with people - to fund your cost of
      running the WSO, spreading word (both on forum and off, within the
      rules), and driving more eyeballs to your offer.

      The good news.

      It only costs $40 or $80 (or even $200) to test in this sandbox.

      'Out there' it could run to several hundred (if not THOUSANDS) of
      dollars to even get such tests running - and then, you may find
      out you have a dud!

      Which would you prefer? Risking $40 (or $100) - or many times
      more?

      I just convinced myself - and bumped my WSO

      All success
      Dr.Mani

      Wise words from a wise man.
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  • Profile picture of the author jayauthor
    May be this is the way to have a higher entry barrier for the WSOs!
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by jayauthor View Post

      May be this is the way to have a higher entry barrier for the WSOs!

      I like this... jay is like Obvious Adams. Just tellin it like it is.
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  • Profile picture of the author Diver's
    those who suffer = article writers..., low priced service provider. it takes a lot more works to cover up the cost.

    but, basically, a person enters the WSO section with "i want to buy something good for my business' mindset.

    nobody leaves the WSO section without buying anything - or maybe 75% will purchase some great offer. (Allen may have the facts )

    The new price is still a bargain.. but i hope bumping thread would cost lower. I'm talking about those who were just starting out/planning for a WSO...
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  • Profile picture of the author Jesus Perez
    It's been $20 for what, 5 years? Cmon guys, stop complaining. He's gotta increase his bottom line and according to my last WSO, the WSO area gets more traffic than all the other forums. I'm talking about 1300 views at noon on a specific day of the week. How much would that cost you in PPC to a MMO keyword?
    Signature

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  • Profile picture of the author rjhere
    Warrior WSO forum may have just lost my business... This is going to bring up the cost of products on this as at $20.00 it's hard for some threads to make any money.

    I think of it as a slap in the face to us that have faithfully paid $20.00 on a daily basis making them 400-600 a month. Most businesses would VALUE customers like this but doubling the price is just a greedy slap in the face to those of us that should be treated as VIP's..

    Just my thoughts..
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    • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
      NO JOKE!

      Ol' greedy Allen Says out to rip us off.

      Same goes with those big d-bags, what are they called...

      OH YEAH, GOOGLE.

      Those dirty people jacked the prices of my bids up to an unsustainable level. I just can't make good money at PPC any more.

      And let me tell you about SEARCH RANKINGS. Man, I used to rank my MMO sites for every keyword from cow dung to porn terms.

      Then they let the competition in.

      What is an honest business man to do?

      They should just eliminate the competition and allow me to advertise for free because I've been a loyal customer and I'm entitled to it.

      Originally Posted by rjhere View Post

      Warrior WSO forum may have just lost my business... This is going to bring up the cost of products on this as at $20.00 it's hard for some threads to make any money.

      I think of it as a slap in the face to us that have faithfully paid $20.00 on a daily basis making them 400-600 a month. Most businesses would VALUE customers like this but doubling the price is just a greedy slap in the face to those of us that should be treated as VIP's..

      Just my thoughts..
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      • Profile picture of the author tpw
        Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

        Same goes with those big d-bags, what are they called...

        OH YEAH, GOOGLE.

        Those dirty people jacked the prices of my bids up to an unsustainable level. I just can't make good money at PPC any more.

        And let me tell you about SEARCH RANKINGS. Man, I used to rank my MMO sites for every keyword from cow dung to porn terms.

        Then they let the competition in.

        What is an honest business man to do?

        They should just eliminate the competition and allow me to advertise for free because I've been a loyal customer and I'm entitled to it.

        This is funny!!

        Yes, bring an AK to the next WF event and eliminate the competition... JUST KIDDING!!!



        Allen: You said the alternative was to split the WSO's into sub-groups...

        I have an idea for you there... LOL

        WSO Group #1 - The Kiddie Pool - Where wanna-be marketers advertise....

        WSO Group #2 - The Cost Cutters Group - The cost is only $1, but your thread is only visible until 5 other people have posted threads... We might call it instead the FFA WSO Room...

        WSO Group #3 - The Heavy Hitters Group - For marketers who have sold more than 100 units...

        WSO Group #4 - The Big Promises Group - This one is half-serious... It is easily identified in code, because it targets percentage signs and dollar signs in the thread title to define it...

        WSO Group #5 - The Thank You Group - This one is half-serious too... It is identified by the people whose WSO's have been thanked more than 100 times... But it could easily be rigged as well with friends in the wings...
        Signature
        Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
        Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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        • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
          Bill,

          You left out a group because I don't fit into any of those. How about the up-and-comers group? Serious but haven't hit the 100 units sold yet?

          Tina

          WSO Group #1 - The Kiddie Pool - Where wanna-be marketers advertise....

          WSO Group #2 - The Cost Cutters Group - The cost is only $1, but your thread is only visible until 5 other people have posted threads... We might call it instead the FFA WSO Room...

          WSO Group #3 - The Heavy Hitters Group - For marketers who have sold more than 100 units...

          WSO Group #4 - The Big Promises Group - This one is half-serious... It is easily identified in code, because it targets percentage signs and dollar signs in the thread title to define it...

          WSO Group #5 - The Thank You Group - This one is half-serious too... It is identified by the people whose WSO's have been thanked more than 100 times... But it could easily be rigged as well with friends in the wings...
          Signature
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          • Profile picture of the author tpw
            Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises View Post

            Bill,

            You left out a group because I don't fit into any of those. How about the up-and-comers group? Serious but haven't hit the 100 units sold yet?

            Tina
            Good catch...

            I also forgot another one... LOL

            WSO Group #7 - The Realistic Promises Group - Don't you hate those people who offer WSO's that tell you that you will actually have to do work to make money? Throw those jerks into their own room too...
            Signature
            Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
            Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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            • Profile picture of the author Maria Gudelis
              Originally Posted by tpw View Post

              Good catch...

              I also forgot another one... LOL

              WSO Group #7 - The Realistic Promises Group - Don't you hate those people who offer WSO's that tell you that you will actually have to do work to make money? Throw those jerks into their own room too...
              I"m ROFL on that one...

              What this means simply like other warriors have said is that:

              1. You need to really 'plan' your business - what is your entire strategy for leads, client relations, customer service, 'back end bumps', OTO's etc.

              - to get to better metrics - what is your customer value - then you can know if $40 is right or not...(e.g one of my $7 buyers - ended up buying my $3,000 coaching - hmmm....that's worth many $40 WSO investments)

              - personally - I think it's still a BARGAIN! Some of my clients PAY $100 PER LEAD acquired...that's before any money is made...

              Another strategy is that simply - you use the WSO as your marketing testing ground for a launch to JVs, clickbank etc. - $40 still a bargain many times over


              2. YOur WSO does need to be good!
              3. And yes - a rethink of when and why of bumping your WSO...
              4. Yes - it's Allen's house!
              5. If $40 is alot of money to you...well then...why are you offering a WSO in the first place - I want to buy a person's WSO because they are 'making money in whatever tactic they are teaching...not faking it...' - And if you're just 'getting going with a service to offer to make the money - well still - $40 is great and use your SIGNATURE for your offer and participate in the FREE threads here.

              Cheers, Maria
              Signature

              Brand NEW: How To Dominate Facebook SEO - LIVE Coaching - Closes SOON! Get In Now Click Here


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    • Profile picture of the author admin
      Administrator
      Originally Posted by rjhere View Post

      Warrior WSO forum may have just lost my business... This is going to bring up the cost of products on this as at $20.00 it's hard for some threads to make any money.

      I think of it as a slap in the face to us that have faithfully paid $20.00 on a daily basis making them 400-600 a month. Most businesses would VALUE customers like this but doubling the price is just a greedy slap in the face to those of us that should be treated as VIP's..

      Just my thoughts..

      I would very much like to post an "I read between the lines" post here in response to this but I won't...

      I can't help but smile, it's better for my health to just smile.
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      • Profile picture of the author rjhere
        Originally Posted by admin View Post

        I would very much like to post an "I read between the lines" post here in response to this but I won't...

        I can't help but smile, it's better for my health to just smile.
        I posted a legitimate post. Nothing to "read between the lines" with nor was it meant to be a joke or a shot at you or this forum.

        You have a great forum here. One of the best. The offers on the WSO thread are about as good as they come anywhere. I would never talk bad about this as the people here are about as good as they come.

        I wasn't bashing you or this forum. I was bashing the decision. Laugh as you want but I had and have a valid point. I get discounts with Google ads cause I pay them a lot of money. I get discounts at godaddy cause I pay a lot of money there. Those businesses know they really need to take care of the hands that feed them.

        My point was that it does seem like a slap in the face to us that have faithfully spent money here.

        At the earlier price point everyone wins. The forum wins with revenues... The Sellers win cause the entry level price allows them to offer a truly special offer.. and most importantly, the buyers win cause every now and then people can do launches at $7.00 like I originally did for my main one.. I may have never have done that at a $40.00 entry point.

        Those customers that got in at $7.00 may not have had the entry point been $40.00 back then.

        I'm sorry if my post seemed derogotory in nature as it wasn't meant to be. It was just an honest opinion on the matter. And I'm sorry if you took it negatively in any way.

        Thanks

        Rob
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by rjhere View Post

          My point was that it does seem like a slap in the face to us that have faithfully spent money here.

          Thanks

          Rob
          I faithfully spend money here and don't consider it a slap in the face. I'm not certain that it will achieve the intended goal, but let's say that Allen wanted to raise the price just because he wanted more money ...

          A lot of people make a killing on WSOs and it's a very small price to pay for the advertising.

          I personally have avoided the WSO forum both for buying and selling, particularly since the Sites for Sale section opened up.

          As a buyer, the place is a mess ... I'd much rather buy WSOs from people's signatures that I like and trust in the forum.

          As a seller, my current product is not ideally suited for the WSO forum, but when I do have a product that is suited for the WSO forum, I would be grateful if it actually stayed on the front page for longer than 6 hours and that would be worth the extra $20 bucks to me.

          Only some time will tell if this achieves the intended goal.
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    • Profile picture of the author Lance K
      Originally Posted by rjhere View Post

      Warrior WSO forum may have just lost my business... This is going to bring up the cost of products on this as at $20.00 it's hard for some threads to make any money.

      I think of it as a slap in the face to us that have faithfully paid $20.00 on a daily basis making them 400-600 a month. Most businesses would VALUE customers like this but doubling the price is just a greedy slap in the face to those of us that should be treated as VIP's..

      Just my thoughts..
      Can anybody point me to the "No Thanks" button?
      Signature
      "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
      ~ Zig Ziglar
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Honestly, to every single person that has complained.
    The forum has: "Members: 225,722"
    First,try finding other online forums that have this many members you can advertise to for a measly $40.
    Second, if another $20 in business expenses is going to break your bank and make it unprofitable for you to do business, you are in the wrong business.
    Third and most important, this is Allen's forum and he can charge whatever fees he wishes.That's his choice, just as it is your choice to pay them or not.
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    • Profile picture of the author rjhere
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      Honestly, to every single person that has complained.
      The forum has: "Members: 225,722"
      First,try finding other online forums that have this many members you can advertise to for a measly $40.
      Second, if another $20 in business expenses is going to break your bank and make it unprofitable for you to do business, you are in the wrong business.
      Third and most important, this is Allen's forum and he can charge whatever fees he wishes.That's his choice, just as it is your choice to pay them or not.
      Your points are valid.. He owns it and can do what he wants. United Airlines is owned and they can charge for breathing air (not really but charge for checked bags).... That doesn't mean it's a "good choice"..

      The idea of keeping at 20 allows us to pass the savings to the customers making truly special offers. Keeping it 20 is not just a service to us that sell there BUT it's to those that buy there. Basically the entire 225,722 members..

      This isn't just a slap to us that have paid him over 500 a month just to be on page 1 for 6 hours at a time.. It's also a slap to the 225,722 members. I offer my services and software at the LOWEST price I can here. I will still do this but due to increase it will go up...

      Anyways, I'm re-working a WSO to make sure I am still profitable and still give you guys the cheapest price I can. Unfortunately it will go up.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tom B
        Banned
        Originally Posted by rjhere View Post


        Anyways, I'm re-working a WSO to make sure I am still profitable and still give you guys the cheapest price I can. Unfortunately it will go up.

        I wouldn't be surprised if you weren't given the opportunity to profit from this forum after your post.

        This forum is a goldmine. Allen should be making a hell of a lot more money with this forum. He could but that isn't his primary focus. Otherwise you would see banners till your eyes bleed. lol

        I have yet to find a better roi. Don't blame Allen because you don't know what you're doing.
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Ya know what's funny about this?

          We've had threads for years about "how to fix the WSO section." Every single one of them has included every single argument that's been put forth in this thread. The same stuff.

          For years. Literally hundreds of times.

          There is a very deep hole under the grease spot that once showed where the dead horse used to be.


          Paul
          Signature
          .
          Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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          • Profile picture of the author Tom B
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            Ya know what's funny about this?

            We've had threads for years about "how to fix the WSO section." Every single one of them has included every single argument that's been put forth in this thread. The same stuff.

            For years. Literally hundreds of times.

            There is a very deep hole under the grease spot that once showed where the dead horse used to be.


            Paul
            What about a rating system?
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            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
              Thomas,
              What about a rating system?
              Consider yourself told.

              That was suggested a couple of times upthread, if you missed it. There were some previous threads that had different ideas, but nothing in this one is new. Nothing.

              Sometimes the predictability is annoying. Most of the time, it's just funny.


              Paul
              Signature
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              Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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              • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                Thomas,Consider yourself told.

                That was suggested a couple of times upthread, if you missed it. There were some previous threads that had different ideas, but nothing in this one is new. Nothing.

                Sometimes the predictability is annoying. Most of the time, it's just funny.


                Paul

                Oh, I know. I remember that one in pretty much all of these types of threads. I didn't want you to miss it.
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          • Profile picture of the author George Sepich
            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            Ya know what's funny about this?

            We've had threads for years about "how to fix the WSO section." Every single one of them has included every single argument that's been put forth in this thread. The same stuff.

            For years. Literally hundreds of times.

            There is a very deep hole under the grease spot that once showed where the dead horse used to be.


            Paul
            Paul, as you well know, most of the WSO threads don't last this long. There is a lot of pent up energy on the subject. I'm sure there will be some good to come out of this thread if it is looked at with fresh eyes. What is old to some is new to others. Long Live Dead Horses.
            Signature

            Need Help? GeorgeSepich.com Digital Marketing Solutions From George Sepich.

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      • Profile picture of the author Dwight Anthony
        I can understand this reasoning, the issue I see is everyone will possibly now pay more for WSOs and those that offered Free WSOs may not even bother. I've went through some of the paid and free WSOs and a number of the free ones are just as excellent.

        I guess it's just an extra $20 you've got to add to your overall product development budget. Still alot easier than starting an offline business and coming up with some the ridiculous capital for some of these options and hoping to make your money back.
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        • Profile picture of the author Michael Mayo
          Originally Posted by danthony View Post

          I can understand this reasoning, the issue I see is everyone will possibly now pay more for WSOs and those that offered Free WSOs may not even bother. I've went through some of the paid and free WSOs and a number of the free ones are just as excellent.

          I guess it's just an extra $20 you've got to add to your overall product development budget. Still alot easier than starting an offline business and coming up with some the ridiculous capital for some of these options and hoping to make your money back.
          Really...lol

          I'm not sure you understand what you can do with your online marketing knowledge.

          I make a Killing offline and my online projects are mainly to help other Warriors.

          It helps me sleep good at nights!

          Have a Great Day!
          Michael
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      • Profile picture of the author oneplusone
        Originally Posted by rjhere View Post

        Your points are valid.. He owns it and can do what he wants. United Airlines is owned and they can charge for breathing air (not really but charge for checked bags).... That doesn't mean it's a "good choice"..

        The idea of keeping at 20 allows us to pass the savings to the customers making truly special offers. Keeping it 20 is not just a service to us that sell there BUT it's to those that buy there. Basically the entire 225,722 members..

        This isn't just a slap to us that have paid him over 500 a month just to be on page 1 for 6 hours at a time.. It's also a slap to the 225,722 members. I offer my services and software at the LOWEST price I can here. I will still do this but due to increase it will go up...

        Anyways, I'm re-working a WSO to make sure I am still profitable and still give you guys the cheapest price I can. Unfortunately it will go up.
        What is your obsession with the face slapping?
        Signature
        'If you hear a voice within you say "you cannot paint," then by all means paint and that voice will be silenced.' Vincent Van Gogh.
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
        Originally Posted by rjhere View Post

        Your points are valid.. He owns it and can do what he wants. United Airlines is owned and they can charge for breathing air (not really but charge for checked bags).... That doesn't mean it's a "good choice"..

        The idea of keeping at 20 allows us to pass the savings to the customers making truly special offers. Keeping it 20 is not just a service to us that sell there BUT it's to those that buy there. Basically the entire 225,722 members..

        This isn't just a slap to us that have paid him over 500 a month just to be on page 1 for 6 hours at a time.. It's also a slap to the 225,722 members. I offer my services and software at the LOWEST price I can here. I will still do this but due to increase it will go up...

        Anyways, I'm re-working a WSO to make sure I am still profitable and still give you guys the cheapest price I can. Unfortunately it will go up.
        Ok, I've seen this argument made several times in this thread. Let's look at something that takes the emoition out of it; simple math.

        The old price was $20.

        It is now $40, that's a difference of $20.

        So far, so good.

        Now, for the sake of simplification, let's say you will be selling your WSO for $20.

        If you were only planning on selling 1 copy, then you will lose $20. Or, to compensate, you would have to raise the price of your offer to $40 to break even.

        If you will sell 2 copies @ $20, you will break even. You may choose to raise the price or not.

        If you plan on selling 4 copies, you will make $80 and come out ahead by $40 (as opposed to the $60 you would have made).

        If you plan on seeling 10 copies you will make $200, or a profit of $160. Now...at the old WSO listing price, you would have made a profit of $180.

        SO...

        To break even, to make what you would have made before, you only need to raise the price of your WSO by $2. That's all. Or...

        $22 X 10 sales = $220
        $220 - $40 for listing the WSO = $180 profit.

        If you think you can sell 40 copies, that would have been a profit of $780 under the old system.

        To make that much now, you don't have to raise the price of your WSO by much at all. Just 50 cents.

        50 stinkin' cents!

        $20.50 X 40 sales = $820
        $820 - $40 = $780 (the same as what you would have made before)

        PEOPLE...you DO NOT have to increase the prices of your WSOs by all that much, if at all.

        All the best,
        Michael
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        • Profile picture of the author Mario Brown
          Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

          Ok, I've seen this argument made several times in this thread. Let's look at something that takes the emoition out of it; simple math.

          The old price was $20.

          It is now $40, that's a difference of $20.

          So far, so good.

          Now, for the sake of simplification, let's say you will be selling your WSO for $20.

          If you were only planning on selling 1 copy, then you will lose $20. Or, to compensate, you would have to raise the price of your offer to $40 to break even.

          If you will sell 2 copies @ $20, you will break even. You may choose to raise the price or not.

          If you plan on selling 4 copies, you will make $80 and come out ahead by $40 (as opposed to the $60 you would have made).

          If you plan on seeling 10 copies you will make $200, or a profit of $160. Now...at the old WSO listing price, you would have made a profit of $180.

          SO...

          To break even, to make what you would have made before, you only need to raise the price of your WSO by $2. That's all. Or...

          $22 X 10 sales = $220
          $220 - $40 for listing the WSO = $180 profit.

          If you think you can sell 40 copies, that would have been a profit of $780 under the old system.

          To make that much now, you don't have to raise the price of your WSO by much at all. Just 50 cents.

          50 stinkin' cents!

          $20.50 X 40 sales = $820
          $820 - $40 = $780 (the same as what you would have made before)

          PEOPLE...you DO NOT have to increase the prices of your WSOs by all that much, if at all.

          All the best,
          Michael
          Hey Michael,

          You're making some great points, but I think I'm missing something here.

          -------
          $20.50 X 40 sales = $820
          $820 - $40 = $780 (the same as what you would have made before)
          -------

          Aehm and what about all the $40 bumps that people have to buy in order to get the 40 sales?

          Cheers,
          Mario
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          • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
            Originally Posted by Mario Brown View Post

            Hey Michael,

            You're making some great points, but I think I'm missing something here.

            -------
            $20.50 X 40 sales = $820
            $820 - $40 = $780 (the same as what you would have made before)
            -------

            Aehm and what about all the $40 bumps that people have to buy in order to get the 40 sales?

            Cheers,
            Mario
            I was assuming NO bumps to get 40 sales. However, that would change the equations.

            The math isn't too difficult. Just make sure to compare the number of $20 bumps you would have made.

            Anyway, I think it's a good idea for everybody to run a few simple numbers before they make some arbitrary guess as to how much they should increase their prices (if at all).

            All the best,
            Michael
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            • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
              Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

              Anyway, I think it's a good idea for everybody to run a few simple numbers before they make some arbitrary guess as to how much they should increase their prices (if at all).
              According to my calculations, I should raise the price of each WSO I'm running by less than a dollar. :rolleyes:
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              • Profile picture of the author George Wright
                Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

                According to my calculations, I should raise the price of each WSO I'm running by less than a dollar. :rolleyes:
                Wow CD,

                We came up with different calculations, you are probably right.

                At first I figured I would cut mine in half. Then I decided a 25% cut would be more in order.

                After the dust settles there should be less competition for first page time, thus more sales, even more sales because of the price cut. Same money made plus more new customers to buy more products in the future.

                I could be wrong though.

                George wRight
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        • Profile picture of the author rjhere
          Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

          Ok, I've seen this argument made several times in this thread. Let's look at something that takes the emoition out of it; simple math.

          The old price was $20.

          It is now $40, that's a difference of $20.

          So far, so good.

          Now, for the sake of simplification, let's say you will be selling your WSO for $20.

          If you were only planning on selling 1 copy, then you will lose $20. Or, to compensate, you would have to raise the price of your offer to $40 to break even.

          If you will sell 2 copies @ $20, you will break even. You may choose to raise the price or not.

          If you plan on selling 4 copies, you will make $80 and come out ahead by $40 (as opposed to the $60 you would have made).

          If you plan on seeling 10 copies you will make $200, or a profit of $160. Now...at the old WSO listing price, you would have made a profit of $180.

          SO...

          To break even, to make what you would have made before, you only need to raise the price of your WSO by $2. That's all. Or...

          $22 X 10 sales = $220
          $220 - $40 for listing the WSO = $180 profit.

          If you think you can sell 40 copies, that would have been a profit of $780 under the old system.

          To make that much now, you don't have to raise the price of your WSO by much at all. Just 50 cents.

          50 stinkin' cents!

          $20.50 X 40 sales = $820
          $820 - $40 = $780 (the same as what you would have made before)

          PEOPLE...you DO NOT have to increase the prices of your WSOs by all that much, if at all.

          All the best,
          Michael
          Yeah.. I see what you are getting at.. But, Some WSO's may see HUGE profit margins like $780.00 like you explained but I would guess MOST won't.
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      • Profile picture of the author Lance K
        Originally Posted by rjhere View Post

        Your points are valid.. He owns it and can do what he wants. United Airlines is owned and they can charge for breathing air (not really but charge for checked bags).... That doesn't mean it's a "good choice"..

        The idea of keeping at 20 allows us to pass the savings to the customers making truly special offers. Keeping it 20 is not just a service to us that sell there BUT it's to those that buy there. Basically the entire 225,722 members..

        This isn't just a slap to us that have paid him over 500 a month just to be on page 1 for 6 hours at a time.. It's also a slap to the 225,722 members. I offer my services and software at the LOWEST price I can here. I will still do this but due to increase it will go up...

        Anyways, I'm re-working a WSO to make sure I am still profitable and still give you guys the cheapest price I can. Unfortunately it will go up.
        If you have to raise the price of your offer to offset an additional $20 in fixed costs, you probably have bigger fish to fry than fretting over the cost of running a WSO.
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  • Profile picture of the author COBSolutions
    Going by the response that every WSO gets, i think the price is justified, afterall everything of daily use is costing more and more every day, plus if the WSO is worth the price it anyways can get back the cost in about half an hour, will also help in keeping the bad apples out of it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Million
    Higher prices will weed out poor copy writers, not poor offers. It's $40 now to post, that's all...

    The WSO section should be primarily used to build a buyer list (and/or prospect list) and test offers / prelaunch, not to solely run a business off of as many currently do.

    The people who are bothered by this need to spend some time away from the Warrior Forum. Many $7 offers here can easily be sold for $197 outside with a few touch ups and a presell email series. This place isn't the all end, not by a long shot. Great resource and certainly networking opportunities (and was a life saver for me in the beginning,) but if this is getting under your skin you should consider a long Warrior vacation and get out of tunnel vision.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    RJHere said:
    "Your points are valid.. He owns it and can do what he wants. ........... That doesn't mean it's a "good choice".. ......."

    And just because some don't like it or think it isn't a "good choice" doesn't mean that it isn't.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    I am over it. At 40 bucks is the wso section a good bet? Yes. Will I go on using it? Yes.
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  • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
    Hey price hike whiners...if you can't turn a profit at $40 a bump what makes you think lowering the price back down to $20 is going to help you in any way? If the extra $20 you now have to pay for a bump blows up your marketing system then you were dead in the water already and Allen just put you out of your misery. You were destined to fail anyways.

    So now take a breath and redesign your selling model and come back strong with something that is going to work at the $40 a bump price point.

    Whining about the price hike only proves to Warriors that your system was weak and sickly. You knew it, Allen knew it, and now so do the rest of us.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
      Straight and to the point. Nice!

      You know, all this WSO talk makes me want to go run a WSO - profitability be damned. And I'm getting some cool idea's.

      Thanks for this 9 page monstrosity guys. I think I may be developing a new marketing method I haven't thought of yet. (Though someone else surely has)

      Rob

      Originally Posted by mattlaclear View Post

      Hey price hike whiners...if you can't turn a profit at $40 a bump what makes you think lowering the price back down to $20 is going to help you in way? If the extra $20 you now have to pay for a bump blows up your marketing system then you were dead in the water already and Allen just put you out of your misery. You were destined to fail anyways.

      So now take a breath and redesign your selling model and come back strong with something that is going to work at the $40 a bump price point.

      Whining about the price hike only proves to Warriors that your system was weak and sickly. You know it, Allen knew it, and now so do the rest of us.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      George,
      Paul, as you well know, most of the WSO threads don't last this long. There is a lot of pent up energy on the subject. I'm sure there will be some good to come out of this thread if it is looked at with fresh eyes. What is old to some is new to others. Long Live Dead Horses.
      They don't last as long any more because we nuke them. We tend to get tired of hearing the same people make the same arguments, supplemented by the occasional new member, for years and years.

      If this thread doesn't start involving some new ideas pretty quick, I'm going to close it, unless Allen objects. And not because we don't want people to be allowed to have their say. Clearly, we've allowed plenty of that.

      Here's the problem: Just like a major product launch does to email, these threads suck the oxygen out of the rest of the forum. Discussions that could actually benefit people who are trying to improve their businesses get ignored, because so many people are watching the re-re-re-run of the train wreck.

      It's an environment, folks. If we let any part of it get that far out of alignment, it hurts everything and everyone involved.

      Balance: The word of the day.


      Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Istvan Horvath
    I am trying to follow this thread although it's getting a bit too long... to be honest.

    Anyway, I figured there must be a lot of people clicking now to go to see the "new" WSO section & got inspiration from Dr Mani's post above, so just went and bumped my WSO. In five minutes (or less) I got a sale @ $28. Cross fingers for another one and I will be OK = $16 profit on this bump.

    Side note for those complianing about the "expenses" of bumping to make 40 sales. If you don't make over 50 sales without a bump... then there must be an issue with the quality of your product or the quality of your presence here.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mario Brown
      Originally Posted by Istvan Horvath View Post


      Side note for those complianing about the "expenses" of bumping to make 40 sales. If you don't make over 50 sales without a bump... then there must be an issue with the quality of your product or the quality of your presence here.
      Hi,

      Aehm and how exactly does that make any sense considering that you hope to make 2 sales after your bump?

      All the best,
      Mario
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      ‎"Success is waking up in the morning, whoever you are, however old or young, and bounding out of bed because there's something out there that you love to do, that you believe in, that you're good at -- something that's bigger than you are, and you can't hardly wait to get at it again today." Whit Hobbs

      Visit My Website: http://www.mariobrown.net/

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      • Profile picture of the author dougp
        Originally Posted by Mario Brown View Post

        Hi,

        Aehm and how exactly does that make any sense considering that you hope to make 2 sales after your bump?

        All the best,
        Mario
        I think what he meant is that you should make 50 sales on your initial WSO post.

        Doug
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        • Profile picture of the author dougp
          I'm assuming most individuals on this forum don't purchase advertising? If you did, then you'll know that advertising isn't cheap, and there are no guarantees that you'll make any returns.

          Besides popular ppc networks like Google adwords, have anyone tried purchasing banners ads on highly trafficked networks? As again, it's not cheap, BUT, if you have your marketing funnel in placed then you should do just fine.

          I read someone boosting that they pay $500 monthly for WSOs, big deal. The advertising dollars for your business should be your biggest monthly investment in my opinion, because without it, you're just starving your business of its needed resources.

          In summation, learn how to create an advertising budget for your business, and learn how to manage it appropriately to yield short term realistic results. Cheers.

          Doug
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            Most complaints seem to be coming from two groups. The first runs multiple WSOs and bumps frequently - and I notice some of them never post in the WF except in their own WSOs. They come here to sell - which is fine.
            The second group haven't yet run a WSO so haven't lost anything.

            It's just $20 - not a huge deal in the big scheme of things, folks.

            kay
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Istvan Horvath View Post

      I am trying to follow this thread although it's getting a bit too long... to be honest.

      Anyway, I figured there must be a lot of people clicking now to go to see the "new" WSO section & got inspiration from Dr Mani's post above, so just went and bumped my WSO. In five minutes (or less) I got a sale @ $28. Cross fingers for another one and I will be OK = $16 profit on this bump.

      Side note for those complianing about the "expenses" of bumping to make 40 sales. If you don't make over 50 sales without a bump... then there must be an issue with the quality of your product or the quality of your presence here.
      Are you telling me that you make 50 sales everytime you bump? Or am I misunderstanding? Could be the latter.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
      Originally Posted by Istvan Horvath View Post

      I am trying to follow this thread although it's getting a bit too long... to be honest.

      Anyway, I figured there must be a lot of people clicking now to go to see the "new" WSO section & got inspiration from Dr Mani's post above, so just went and bumped my WSO. In five minutes (or less) I got a sale @ $28. Cross fingers for another one and I will be OK = $16 profit on this bump.

      Side note for those complianing about the "expenses" of bumping to make 40 sales. If you don't make over 50 sales without a bump... then there must be an issue with the quality of your product or the quality of your presence here.
      I don't think 50 sales per bump is a fair assessment of quality of either presence or product.

      A lot as to do with the type of product being sold.

      It seems to me info dealing with quick money, SEO/bum marketing topics, list building, and product making tends to sell the most.

      Then there is the sales copy. If the copy is even mediocre, then sales will not be that great.

      Rob

      EDIT: I went back and reread what you said...if you don't make 50 sales WITHOUT a bump...that makes more sense.

      This isn't THAT difficult, though granted, as I said, it all depends on the topic and copy.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mario Brown
        Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

        I don't think 50 sales per bump is a fair assessment of quality of either presence or product.

        A lot as to do with the type of product being sold.

        It seems to me info dealing with quick money, SEO/bum marketing topics, list building, and product making tends to sell the most.

        Then there is the sales copy. If the copy is even mediocre, then sales will not be that great.

        Rob
        I couldn't agree more. I'm getting tired of people jumping the gun so fast saying "Oh you know what, if you can't make X amount of sales your product must suck".

        There are many factors that come into play when launching WSO's. Copy, Reviews, Price, Niche, Luck, Sales Funnel and let's not forget reputation on the forum.

        Yes I agree, if somebody is already running WSO's and they now whine about the price increase or they can't handle it, they must beef up.

        But there are other cases as well, people who are newer to the forum (but not necessarily new to marketing) that might be on a budget. Or maybe newbies that learned a lot within the forum and now they want to take action launching their first product and testing it as a WSO.

        They don't have a lot of reviews, or marketing experience or reputation and for them, $77 might be a lot of money. Also, their chances to sell a lot of copies with their launch are limited - because they don't have any reputation yet - they can have the best product in the world.

        I guess the solution for them would be to give to offer their product to reputable Warriors for free first in order to get some reviews, so that they have better chances to make a profit after spending $77.

        I understand both sides.

        Cheers,
        Mario
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        • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
          No matter how you look at it...

          If you are selling products or services to marketers 99% of the time you are doing so because your product or service claims to better the buyers bottom line.

          If your product or service isn't bettering your own bottom line enough to pay $40 one of 2 things is true...

          1. You are lying about your product or service, and it's not as effective as you claim.

          2. You suck when it comes to money management.
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        • Profile picture of the author rjhere
          Originally Posted by Mario Brown View Post

          I couldn't agree more. I'm getting tired of people jumping the gun so fast saying "Oh you know what, if you can't make X amount of sales your product must suck".

          There are many factors that come into play when launching WSO's. Copy, Reviews, Price, Niche, Luck, Sales Funnel and let's not forget reputation on the forum.

          Yes I agree, if somebody is already running WSO's and they now whine about the price increase or they can't handle it, they must beef up.

          But there are other cases as well, people who are newer to the forum (but not necessarily new to marketing) that might be on a budget. Or maybe newbies that learned a lot within the forum and now they want to take action launching their first product and testing it as a WSO.

          They don't have a lot of reviews, or marketing experience or reputation and for them, $77 might be a lot of money. Also, their chances to sell a lot of copies with their launch are limited - because they don't have any reputation yet - they can have the best product in the world.

          I guess the solution for them would be to give to offer their product to reputable Warriors for free first in order to get some reviews, so that they have better chances to make a profit after spending $77.

          I understand both sides.

          Cheers,
          Mario
          Couldn't agree with you more. There are two sides to this and both sides have valid points.

          People say it's just "20.00".. Yeah it is just "20.00"... And it's not going to break me.. It's kind of a principle of a 100% increase with no notice it was going to happen. Anyways, as everyone has said it's not our business and he has every right to do this.

          A little notice would have been nice though...

          Anyways, I've said my peace and see all points of view.. </complaining>
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          • Profile picture of the author caseycase
            I know a lot of folks here have expressed that they are afraid that newbies might not be able to use the WSO section or might be afraid of using it because of the cost involved.

            As a relative newbie myself, while that may be true for others, I am actually more excited to use it now. I have only posted one WSO, and it definitely made more than $40 (and is still making money for me now by relationships I built).

            With it a bit higher, I feel like my next WSO might not get "lost" so quickly in with all the others.
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Mario,
          I guess the solution for them would be to give to offer their product to reputable Warriors for free first in order to get some reviews, so that they have better chances to make a profit after spending $77.
          Please don't suggest that too often. I've got 4 or 5 people after me for reviews at the moment, and two of them seem to be holding off selling their products waiting on me. The mods and the most visible members will get the majority of those requests, and there simply isn't enough time. Not to mention that many of them will be in areas of the business where the person being asked doesn't have the experience to give a qualified review.

          I get these requests every week, usually multiples of them. Along with questions about why people can't get their email delivered, how to make fast cash to get out of a bad situation, why their posts were deleted (there are a lot more mods than just me), and a wild assortment of other things I can't always answer, and usually don't have the time to answer if I could.

          Not to mention that looking at someone else's product, if it's an area in which I have anything useful to teach, opens me up to accusations of stealing their ideas. And yes, that's been done here before, despite my having published the same idea 10 years before.

          I guarantee you, those issue are not unique to me. I'd bet that most of them, or things very much like them, are concerns for a lot of other visible members of this group.

          If you want reviews, ask Ken Strong if it's okay to ask for them in the review section, and put some qualifiers on who you'll give copies to. Or just sell the thing and get them from paying customers.


          Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author Istvan Horvath
        Originally Posted by Mario Brown View Post

        Aehm and how exactly does that make any sense considering that you hope to make 2 sales after your bump?
        Sorry, probably, I wasn't clear enough. The 2 sales at my price ($28) = $56. 56-40=16. After 2 sales made AFTER this bump I already recuperated my expenses ($40, the bump) and will make $16 net profit

        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

        Are you telling me that you make 50 sales everytime you bump? Or am I misunderstanding? Could be the latter.
        I wish
        I was talking about the initial publishing of the WSO. Without any bump.

        Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

        EDIT: I went back and reread what you said...if you don't make 50 sales WITHOUT a bump...that makes more sense.
        Yes, that's exactly what I was talking about: without bump.
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      • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
        Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

        I don't think 50 sales per bump is a fair assessment of quality of either presence or product.

        A lot as to do with the type of product being sold.

        It seems to me info dealing with quick money, SEO/bum marketing topics, list building, and product making tends to sell the most.

        Then there is the sales copy. If the copy is even mediocre, then sales will not be that great.

        Rob

        EDIT: I went back and reread what you said...if you don't make 50 sales WITHOUT a bump...that makes more sense.

        This isn't THAT difficult, though granted, as I said, it all depends on the topic and copy.
        or the price point... the wso forum has always attracted cheap people hahahahaha
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        • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
          Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

          or the price point... the wso forum has always attracted cheap people hahahahaha
          I'm not sure how accurate that is OR what you consider cheap, but at different points in time we have:

          sold 250+ spots to a $97 and $127 a month service
          Sold 300+ copies of a $67 Information product
          Sold 75 spots to a $97 forum access (75 spots is all we offered)
          Sold 400+ Copies of a piece of $67 software

          You only attract cheap people if you sell cheap products.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Istvan Horvath View Post

      I am trying to follow this thread although it's getting a bit too long... to be honest.

      Anyway, I figured there must be a lot of people clicking now to go to see the "new" WSO section & got inspiration from Dr Mani's post above, so just went and bumped my WSO. In five minutes (or less) I got a sale @ $28. Cross fingers for another one and I will be OK = $16 profit on this bump.

      Side note for those complianing about the "expenses" of bumping to make 40 sales. If you don't make over 50 sales without a bump... then there must be an issue with the quality of your product or the quality of your presence here.
      That's true for the WSO section, but about the time this thread started, I bumped a listing of mine in the Complete Sites for Sale section ... cost me $40 and haven't made a sale or gotten a signup to my list.

      At any given time, there's 800-1200 people viewing the WSO forum. Every time I've looked, there's around 200 something in Warriors Products and Services and they are split up between Sites for Sale, Classifieds and Warriors for Hire, so hopefully, the $40 for Products and Services isn't going to stay.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by Phillips Pierce View Post

      However the people complaining about the price hike being too steep or detering "newbies" need to consider a few things. First of all if you are a newbie DON'T release a WSO. This is a BUSINESS forum and a newbie marketer shouldn't be teaching business in the first place.
      I know what you're saying, but not all WSOs teach business. Some offers simple services that the person may be well-suited to offer.


      Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

      Gregg, I tell ya what...

      Get a few respected Warriors to review your offer and get their feedback. If they think that your offer is quality and is ready to be unleashed on the market, I'll cover the extra $20 for ya.
      Nice of you, Lance. I had the same idea when I read his post.


      Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

      And let me tell you about SEARCH RANKINGS. Man, I used to rank my MMO sites for every keyword from cow dung to porn terms.
      Aw man, what's your secret, Rob? I've been trying to rank for "cow dung" for years. I decided that was udderly silly, so I've recently switched to trying to rank for bullsh--! Moo.



      Here's a novel idea ... if you can't make money from a WSO because it costs $40 instead of $20, consider it a chance to learn from your experience.

      What could you have done differently to get more sales? There are many things to consider: better sales copy? ...better price? ...better product? ...did you even research the demand for your product? ...do you have credibility? That's just a start of the kind of questions you can ask yourself.

      Learn from your experiences and figure out how to up your game. That's what it takes to build and grow a business in the first place. Complacency leads to decline.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bryan Kumar
    Wow, we're on Page 9 now. Amazing.

    Wanna know what's even more amazing? It's that I don't recall a thread even half this size when Allen increased (doubled?) the page length of the WSO forum so that your WSO would stay on page 1 much longer.

    I also don't recall a thread anywhere near this size (nor a post) saying, "Wow Allen, that is going to cut a huge chunk out of your profits. But you did it anyway. Thanks, man!"

    Anybody remember when that change was made? Only a handful of people, I bet.

    Oh but this price increase....this will probably be burned into most people's brains forever. Funny, huh?
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
      Originally Posted by Bryan Kumar View Post

      Wow, we're on Page 9 now. Amazing.

      Wanna know what's even more amazing? It's that I don't recall a thread even half this size when Allen increased (doubled?) the page length of the WSO forum so that your WSO would stay on page 1 much longer.

      I also don't recall a thread anywhere near this size (nor a post) saying, "Wow Allen, that is going to cut a huge chunk out of your profits. But you did it anyway. Thanks, man!"
      I think it's pretty much the same thing as my wife yelling at me for forgetting to take out the trash, YET forgetting to thank me for paying the mortgage and keeping the lights on.

      Sometimes it's easier to take things for granted and complain than it is to show appreciation when and where it is due.
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      • Profile picture of the author Chris Hunter
        Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

        I think it's pretty much the same thing as my wife yelling at me for forgetting to take out the trash, YET forgetting to thank me for paying the mortgage and keeping the lights on.
        Now THAT was awesome!! LOL!
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  • Well $40 may not seem like a lot, but according to WSO PRO the average sale price is $17. So keeping that in mind any paypal fee's your looking at three sales just to break even.

    Personally, I think its a move in the wrong direction that can ultimately end up backfiring and result in less revenue for the site (due to less bumps and listings).
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by OnlineMarketingSys View Post

      Well $40 may not seem like a lot, but according to WSO PRO the average sale price is $17. So keeping that in mind any paypal fee's your looking at three sales just to break even.

      Personally, I think its a move in the wrong direction that can ultimately end up backfiring and result in less revenue for the site (due to less bumps and listings).
      If you read Allen's post several pages back, that was the goal ... less listings and bumps.
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        If you read Allen's post several pages back, that was the goal ... less listings and bumps.
        If fewer bumps are part of the goal, why not double the requirement for bumping as well? In other words, you can't bump until your offer reaches page 6, instead of page 3.

        This could also be beneficial in other ways. The first that springs to mind is it gives a longer time to see how good your offer is really doing.

        Also, I don't think this is about how much money Allen makes, especially in the short-term. Those casting aspersions about Mr. Says' greed seem to be forgetting about something called "integrity", which is where I think his true wealth derives from (and why the WF is still the best).

        That being said, by doubling the investment to list a WSO and doubling the bumping requirement, my best guess is that it wouldn't have that big of an effect on the bottom line.

        Whatever Allen does is fine by me, but if that's one of the goals, then this may be one way to do it.

        All the best,
        Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author defaultuser
    I wish I would have been warned. That being said I know if I create a quality WSO it has a better chance of selling here than just on my own site. $40 is double the price, but it's hard to complain when I talk with people here everyday that make a good 2k - 4k in a month when they release a WSO.

    That and you can get a good idea of how well the product will do out of the safety of The Warrior Forum.
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Kennedy
    I think people need to start addressing what a "bad WSO" actually is. Low price =/= low quality. For example, there is a WSO costing $17 which is extremely valuable and can make people money the first day they implement it. There is also a $47 WSO which is complete and utter crap and only rehashes old information (get a website, do article marketing, build a list etc). Which of these is bad quality? I highly doubt the price increase will affect the bad quality WSO owner in this example.

    Hell, even the other WF has more barriers to entry than here (people get abused for selling things with low post counts, low iTrader scores and often their post is deleted etc). Here you can sign up and have your 1st post as a WSO.
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  • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
    I am glad to see that the price was raised. I may be wrong, but I think that you will get more bang for your buck with a higher price. It means that less of the "challenged" WSOs will be bumped again and again.
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    • Profile picture of the author Amy Wu
      Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

      I am glad to see that the price was raised. I may be wrong, but I think that you will get more bang for your buck with a higher price. It means that less of the "challenged" WSOs will be bumped again and again.
      You might be right on this...
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  • Profile picture of the author Amy Wu
    I don't have that much to input since I am new to this Forum.

    Yesterday, I was trying to post a Free offer on the forum but got notified that I needed to pay $40 to post a free offer. That sounds a bit expensive for a free offer.

    Any thoughts?
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    • Profile picture of the author glassextreme
      Amy: Your free offer is either a lead gen or have an upsell to it. Either way, you are still making money out of it, so why should it be free?
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    • Profile picture of the author Istvan Horvath
      Originally Posted by Amy Wu View Post

      Yesterday, I was trying to post a Free offer on the forum but got notified that I needed to pay $40 to post a free offer. That sounds a bit expensive for a free offer.

      Any thoughts?
      Many.

      The reason people post "free" WSOs is simple: they want subscribers on their list. Now, considering that you could get a few hundred subscribers for just $40... is that really expensive?

      If you don't want subscribers you can get a WarRoom membership and can post there your free offer only for WR members.
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    • Profile picture of the author DogScout
      Originally Posted by Amy Wu View Post

      I don't have that much to input since I am new to this Forum.

      Yesterday, I was trying to post a Free offer on the forum but got notified that I needed to pay $40 to post a free offer. That sounds a bit expensive for a free offer.

      Any thoughts?
      Post helpful post on the general board.
      Have a link in your sig to free products.
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  • Profile picture of the author ASCW
    My 2 cents.

    It's Allen's F'N HOUSE!

    Is $40.00 all of a sudden not a total bargain for what you get in return?
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    Cool.

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  • Profile picture of the author Super Affiliate
    Still think that was a big price increase. 100% is unheard of.. I haven't been a member too long so I don't know why it was necessary so I can't really comment on this but it's going to be a big stretch for a lot of us. Hope Allen's decision was for the better for the most of us...
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  • Profile picture of the author Maddi
    10 Pages? WOW

    Some great replies by great marketers and some of my favorite warriors. Too many good ones to name or mention here.

    Like Paul Myers said, its just repeating itself now LOL. But it sure will be an eye opener for newbies in more ways than we can think.

    Some went so far to calculate that, if they wanted to compensate this price change by slightly increasing their product pricing, on average, it was only costing less than a dollar. It will be different for everyone of course. Most, if they have a back end, a sales process/funnel won't be bothered the slightest and it won't make any difference paying double.

    At first I thought it was a bad move from a newbie's point of view, but if they aren't confident enough the wso will make back that $40, may be the product isn't worth launching anyway.

    If they are confident but simply can't afford the $40, (from developing countries or simply going through hard times) then there are ways around getting that first $40. If you ain't resourceful, you better sharpen your entrepreneurial skills first before launching a product in the market. Take it as a challenge, and cough up the money somehow. $40 isn't a big amount to come up with, you just gotta be creative and resourceful in some cases, a little patient.

    Some great marketing lessons in this thread too. Take it as a traffic source just like any other, in fact respect this traffic source more than any other.

    This is very targeted traffic, at a price anyone can afford. Do the math by the number of clicks you get after the initial $40 and develop your cost per click. I doubt there will be any paid traffic source at that price.

    If you still think the price change will seriously affect your business, I won't bash you but you gotta enhance your marketing/business model.

    Don't wish it was easier, wish you were better.

    Maddi
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    • Profile picture of the author sanssecret
      Wow, almost makes me wish I ran WSO's. Then maybe I'd get what all the fuss is about.

      At the end of the day this is Allen's house and he can do what he pleases. He's already stated his reasons for raising the price but to be honest why should he have to justify what he does in his own home? Sometimes I think we forget we're just guests here. Nobody is forcing anyone to hang around.

      If you don't want to pay Allen's prices, go pay someone else's.

      Personally, (and this is just me so feel free to ignore it), I find the WSO forum to be the least attractive room in the whole house. Occasionally I go in, but usually I'm back out just as quick. Can't see anything for the mess all over the place. I honestly doubt raising the price will do anything to clean the place up, but maybe it will. If you want your WSO seen, put a link in your sig. Then at least I don't have to wade through the mess to find out. Yeah, I'm lazy as hell, make it easy for me please.

      I will say the biggest bug bear that really gets to me about the whole WSO thing is that the majority of them aren't WSO's. A lot of the offerings are not special offers for Warriors at all. They're just warrior offers, plain and simple.

      2. A Warrior Special Offer Means The Price You Give Must Be Better Than The Price The Public At Large Can Get. (This is not a "buy my product" forum, it is a "Special Offer" forum)

      Now if you leave out "this is not a buy my product...", then yeah I guess technically if it's only available here, it's better than the price being paid by the public at large, cos the public at large can't get it at any price.

      But to me, once you insert that little addendum, then you're saying other folks are paying more and the truth is, in a lot of cases they aren't.

      I know it can't be policed, (or at least not at some heavy duty cost which would seriously raise the price) but why have it in there if it's not actually true?


      Signature
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      The man who views the world at fifty the same as he did at twenty has wasted thirty years of his life. ~Muhammad Ali
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      • Profile picture of the author tpw
        Originally Posted by sanssecret View Post

        I will say the biggest bug bear that really gets to me about the whole WSO thing is that the majority of them aren't WSO's. A lot of the offerings are not special offers for Warriors at all. They're just warrior offers, plain and simple.

        2. A Warrior Special Offer Means The Price You Give Must Be Better Than The Price The Public At Large Can Get. (This is not a "buy my product" forum, it is a "Special Offer" forum)

        Now if you leave out "this is not a buy my product...", then yeah I guess technically if it's only available here, it's better than the price being paid by the public at large, cos the public at large can't get it at any price.

        But to me, once you insert that little addendum, then you're saying other folks are paying more and the truth is, in a lot of cases they aren't.

        I know it can't be policed, (or at least not at some heavy duty cost which would seriously raise the price) but why have it in there if it's not actually true?

        Interesting point San...

        Perhaps the mods could require us to link to where the offer is posted on our own websites... Inside of our WSO offers...

        If we were forced to make it a special offer, by making a sales page for the rest of the world (which I have always done prior to submission as a WSO), then perhaps two benefits could be derived:

        1. The mods could quickly and easily identify the fact that the offer really is a WARRIOR SPECIAL OFFER... and

        2. Those consumers who are sitting on the fence about buying the WSO could potentially locate additional information about the product or service, to help them off the fence...


        p.s. This extra step will not substantially increase the costs of approving WSO's... The mods are already opening the WSO to read the copy, before approving the WSO... What is another 20 seconds to visit the page where the item is offered to make sure it is the same offer and at a lower price...
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        • Profile picture of the author wordwizard
          I tried to work my way through the entire thread, and then i noticed that it was growing
          faster than I could even read, so I skipped a bunch of pages just to get to the end, and
          judging from some of the comments, apparently I'm not the only one.

          All the quotes from the first few pages that I had saved to comment on now seem to be
          moot, so I deleted them.

          Just wanted to say that I too hope that the speed with which the WSO-"stream" has
          rushing past lately (sort of like the Twitter stream if you have a lot of followers) will slow
          down.at last, to give each WSO more of a chance to actually be seen.

          Elisabeth
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        • Profile picture of the author Lance K
          Originally Posted by tpw View Post

          Interesting point San...

          Perhaps the mods could require us to link to where the offer is posted on our own websites... Inside of our WSO offers...

          If we were forced to make it a special offer, by making a sales page for the rest of the world (which I have always done prior to submission as a WSO), then perhaps two benefits could be derived:

          1. The mods could quickly and easily identify the fact that the offer really is a WARRIOR SPECIAL OFFER... and

          2. Those consumers who are sitting on the fence about buying the WSO could potentially locate additional information about the product or service, to help them off the fence...


          p.s. This extra step will not substantially increase the costs of approving WSO's... The mods are already opening the WSO to read the copy, before approving the WSO... What is another 20 seconds to visit the page where the item is offered to make sure it is the same offer and at a lower price...
          Or we could depend on the member moderators to report noncompliant offers.
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          • Profile picture of the author KarlWarren
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            I'm also going to track time on page one as I just bumped one of my WSOs
            at 8:36 AM EST.

            I'm betting that by 2:36 PM EST, it will be on page 2.

            We'll see.

            Maybe we should start a pool. Closest person to guessing the right time
            gets a free War Room membership. I'll sponsor them.
            I win...

            Firebug + firefox + a little imagination = your post is already on page 2000



            (spot the deliberate mistake )
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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              Originally Posted by KarlWarren View Post

              I win...

              Firebug + firefox + a little imagination = your post is already on page 2000



              (spot the deliberate mistake )

              Karl, did anybody ever tell you that you're a real wise ass?
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            • Profile picture of the author Lance K
              Originally Posted by KarlWarren View Post

              I win...

              Firebug + firefox + a little imagination = your post is already on page 2000



              (spot the deliberate mistake )
              Deliberate mistake = the "1" isn't hyper linked. Meaning that this is really page 1.

              What do I win?
              Signature
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  • Profile picture of the author Will Edwards
    Personally, I don't think it will weed out the rubbish; it will weed out the poor converters and that's an entirely different thing.

    However, as for the price increase, supply and demand will ultimately fix the price at the right level.

    Will
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  • Profile picture of the author Sardent
    Being a marketing beginner (not an online business beginner) one thing the price increase does do is that it makes me reconsider the timing of becoming a War Room member, as in perhaps later instead of sooner.

    The rest is speculation, the price increase might perform as expected, or it might stifle non-marketer and newbie creativity.
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    • Profile picture of the author George Wright
      Originally Posted by Sardent View Post

      Being a marketing beginner (not an online business beginner) one thing the price increase does do is that it makes me reconsider the timing of becoming a War Room member, as in perhaps later instead of sooner.

      The rest is speculation, the price increase might perform as expected, or it might stifle non-marketer and newbie creativity.
      There are better reasons to becoming a War Room Member than being able to run a WSO. Join for the education. Practice your new found knowlege by running WSOs. If you never run a WSO the WR is still a must read for you.

      George Wright
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      • Profile picture of the author Sardent
        Originally Posted by George Wright View Post

        There are better reasons to becoming a War Room Member than being able to run a WSO. Join for the education. Practice your new found knowlege by running WSOs. If you never run a WSO the WR is still a must read for you.

        George Wright
        I hear you.
        But one must remember that coming from my position, that of a newcomer, I'm already fighting on two fronts, information overload, and weeding thru all the information that is old and busted.

        And wading into a veritable sea of...salesman.

        It's daunting and makes one cautious.
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        • Profile picture of the author Terry Crim
          Originally Posted by Sardent View Post

          I hear you.
          But one must remember that coming from my position, that of a newcomer, I'm already fighting on two fronts, information overload, and weeding thru all the information that is old and busted.

          And wading into a veritable sea of...salesman.

          It's daunting and makes one cautious.

          This is a marketing forum where people learn how to sell to other people, individuals and groups. By definition this is the salesman in training center which when people learn enough they start trying things out. Usually here in the forum or WSO or other areas.

          You should be cautious. Afterall a sea of newbe's fresh coming in daily that have never been here, it does attract the sharks.

          Con men and women, scammers, spammers and bad doers are always attracted to groups of people that are innocent, have no idea what is what.. It is how many of them live, off the backs of those that don't know any better.

          Not all are like that here, but there are definitely sharks and bad doers. Use your common sense and don't ever trust what people say about money, especially what they report to make, at face value. Most of it is false and misleading.

          - T
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        • Profile picture of the author Seo_Oz
          The admin has woken up to the fact the other forums are no competition compared to this forum and the fact how much people are making from their WSO's,therefore giving them a reason to increase the price.Without no real competition they can charge what they like. WSO's will probally be staying higher up due to less WSO's getting posted.This could be a good thing not getting your WSO pushed down as fast then payiing to get it bumped again,only time will tell.The quality of some of the WSO's will have to improve if the want to recover their fees.
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  • Profile picture of the author Terry Crim
    This is a funny thread.

    The WSO section ALWAYS had issues. I remember when it didn't exist and allen was "thinking" of adding it. Those on the ball about these things had an advance guess as to the issues that would eventually come up.

    They did and a lot more. Then allen started charging. Didn't stop any of it, slowed it down in the beginning until people adjusted to it and discovered the money triggers.
    Once that happened, it really doesn't matter what Allen charges. $40, $150, $300 etc.. Those that know how to trigger the money will gladly pay any fee Allen can come up with. AND do it without bitching, complaining and probably not make a peep about it.

    Now on the other side of things, which I saw along time ago and Allen specifically states in the WSO rules. This is NOT meant as a FULL TIME market place for your products / services. Those that live here on the forum, can't or won't go out into the market place, will live or die by the forum.

    WSO was not meant to be ONLY place you market too. It was and is, in my opinion, a testing ground to see what tweaking needs done before a soft or hard launch. If you can sell here and make money then you will make 10x's the amount out in the REAL market.

    Instead a lot, most?, treat the WSO like a lamb to the slaughter. Why go else where when you have a full time on slaught of NEWBE's looking to make money to pay bills etc...

    Those that have not developed their skills, which a lot don't bother too, can't afford to pay the fees and when things change which they do daily can't figure out how to find the money triggers. Which in my opinion, they should not be doing WSO's anyway because of the lack of knowledge and experience. But that goes back to what I was saying about not living here on the forum and actually going out there in the market place and test, track, fail, succeed make some money. Change things in your product and test...

    I know how hard it is to be a moderator here on WF. I was one for a while.
    A lot of the WSO's that get complaints that should not be allowed, as many mention too often, in my view all submitted WSO's should be reviewed before allowed to go live. I am NOT talking about the product but the sales letter, the offer.

    I am out of the loop so if this is being done, awesome. If there isn't a way to check if a offer is crap without actually looking at the product a LOT of WSO's will NEVER get posted cause mod's ain't going to manually go through each product. Not happening.

    I know Allen is making quite a bit of cash from the fee's. If that is his goal then great, full sail ahead.

    If the WSO section is suppose to subsidise and be full time income sources for people then great. FULL Steam Ahead. From my memory though, this was not the intention.

    I know I have not been active on the forum a lot over last year or so. Went and got life outside the forum, sorry bout that. I am sure my input isn't that considerable since many "FULL TIMERS" have much more pull than I do. BUT... If there is a vote or discussion on this. My vote is to CLOSE the WSO section all together of at least give it a break for a month so people can see what it is like to not have it. Force the people that "can't" and make them go out and actually start developing their skills instead of living off the WF as if it is some kind of government assistance program.

    That's my 2 cents on this stupid debate, arguement, complaint fest whatever it is. OOOOOoooooo WSO price went up, boohooo hooo the world is coming to an end, oh my god NOOOOO!

    LOL

    Hate on me all you want. But come on, if you really can't live without the WSO section, can't pay your bills because of it, my solution here is to close the damn thing down because that is NEVER what is was meant for in the first place.


    - T
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  • Profile picture of the author andybeveridge
    Here is my 2 cents. I understand the amount of work that is involved in running a busy site like this. I also understand that we all want to make a living and that includes the owner of this site. I do not begrudge this in anyway whatsoever.
    There is no doubting the value to this site. I have learnt so much from this forum and much of that for free.
    On the other hand this new price increase will make a difference to me. I am really just getting myself established after two years of marketing. When your in the postion of being established and trusted already. I think that an extra $20 will not make that much difference.
    However when your in my position then it will make a difference. I still have to build that trust and show everyone that I an offer value. I have managed this with my own small list, but not here yet.
    So I suppose it is just the timing that is wrong for me.
    Also it will not get rid of the crap that is sold on here sometimes. That crap will just get more exspensive. Most of us know who gives out the value on here, and they will not suffer. It will only be painful for those that are genuine but unknown.
    I may be wrong about this, but I thought the Warrior forum was a place designed to introduce the newbie to the online world of marketing. A place where as a community we all help each other. Of course the newbie can still access all the free information, but the doubling of the wso price will make that transaction from unknown to established marketer a little harder for some.
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  • Profile picture of the author forfun_cash
    At last! 95% of the WSO i bought were completely crap and rehashed. Allen must have noticed that. What a great move. Hopefully rehashed/sounds good but never feasible WSO will be weed out to 50%!

    It's definitely a great news to WSO buyers & those who post sell real quality WSO like sean donahoe etc.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
      Originally Posted by forfun_cash View Post

      At last! 95% of the WSO i bought were completely crap and rehashed. Allen must have noticed that. What a great move. Hopefully rehashed/sounds good but never feasible WSO will be weed out to 50%!

      It's definitely a great news to WSO buyers & those who post sell real quality WSO like sean donahoe etc.
      I find that interesting. 95% of the WSO's I've bought have been new, refreshing, tools needed for my business and things I have enjoyed using.

      In fact, I'm trying to recall if I ever needed to return something.

      Hmmm....
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  • Profile picture of the author Barry Unruh
    My first thought as a potential first time WSO lister was "Damn, This sucks!".

    My next thought was, "Is this really so bad?".

    Then I thought about how I deal with my clients in the outside world. I tell them to sign up for paid forums, paid groups, and even research sites which allow them to post content. It allows them to put their content right in front of people who are their prime contacts for sales and real leads. Most of their competitors won't do it.

    $40 to put an ad in front of thousands of Warriors which you can then continue to promote by sharing quality content in your posts is one of the biggest bargains in advertising you will ever find.

    The problem many people will have with this change is because they do not want to take time to hunt down relevant posts, give smart replies, and help people see the value in buying their WSO.

    I'm not sure it will weed out the hot shooting WSO runners, but it may slow down the wild bumps which happen without a second thought on products with questionable value. Even if it slows down the bumps it will have been successful.

    (Of course, if you are providing quality posts and getting your message in front of people, you probably did not need all those bumps anyway.)
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  • Profile picture of the author KarlWarren
    Reality check for those who said they wanted a warning:

    How's 2 1/2 years notice grab ya?
    The Warrior Forum - Tired Of The WSO Bitching...

    Also, those of us who were around in 2008 heard ALL the same objections before when WSOs went from FREE to $20.

    I'm really, really enjoying this thread.
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    eCoverNinja - Sales Page Graphics & Layout Specialist
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  • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
    I Just reading another post about what warriors should charge offline clients, not only this thread but many like all cry the same message from warriors- charge based on the value given

    charge what the market will bear - charge dependent on the niche - charge based on the value of the keyword X x, charge based on those with big bucks because there are less headaches, every project is different so everyone should be priced as such ?, prices should be based on the value delivered.

    and the list goes on and on, but come here and some people squabble over $40 bucks

    the man in the mirror has a different hats it seems dependent on which way he wants to swing the cat, people are funny at times.
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    | > Choosing to go off the grid for a while to focus on family, work and life in general. Have a great 2020 < |
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  • Profile picture of the author Alfred Shelver
    WOW... does anyone have stats about the longest thread in the quickest time?

    Some interesting stats on here ... some people have never thanked anyone on this forum ever (not newbies) That boggled my mind. (so much to be thankful for on here.)

    Allen has been thanked 5700 in less than 300 posts thats incredible what makes him so special you would think he owns the place. But in one post he says he did not mean to raise the prive on the other paid forums and no Thanks ... except me because I am a thankful and a Kiss A$$, and who better than the Admin.

    I like the move I really hope it has an effect on numbers of WSO's and quality.

    To the Mods

    PS any mods reading this I did something really stupid .... I posted a Classified or warrior for hire (cant remeber which one) and just typed in junk to see what the price would be (was not going to put it through)... I forgot you only get that after the thread is approved. Please no malice was intended I just wanted to give useful information but was stupid ....
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Hess
    When you have part of your business relying on a site that isn't your own expect changes.

    It's true of Hubpages, Squidoo, Blogger, etc.. and the Warrior Forum. We don't make the rules.

    "I've never made a penny before running WSO's" WSO's and this is what you end up with a marketplace flooded where offers on page 1 don't last for more than a few hours because people are chasing that easy WSO money with the same tactics that are being used on Clickbank sales pages.

    Big headline, lots of hype, that's the "make money online" niche to the majority of people out there. (right or wrong)

    I can't complain, because like many marketers who have used the WSO forum to build a list and for customer acquisition it was pretty similar to using PPC/PPV in the first place.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Terry Crim, let me be the first one to thank you for such a damn good post.

      I couldn't have said it better myself.

      Now I have to go and get myself a life.
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    • Profile picture of the author Gail_Curran
      Ehh, I'm over it.

      But this should really be a pricing exercise.

      Raising the price from $20 to $40 knocks out a certain percentage of "small-time" marketers. And good riddance, according to all the "big-time" marketers here who were BORN knowing everything and never spent any time learning by doing, trial and error, mastering one small step at a time.

      But now that those little guys are out of the picture, the proportion of crap will increase, because scammers know they can still make a killing by selling crap and $40 is a drop in the bucket to them.

      So what price will knock out the crap?

      $100? $500? Yeah, I think $500 might do it. And if you can't get a decent ROI after paying $500, you're not good enough to play in the WSO section with the big guys.

      I'm serious. If the WSO forum is intended for the experienced, big-time marketers then price it accordingly. Otherwise the crap will still be there.

      Just watch.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
        Originally Posted by Gail_Curran View Post


        But now that those little guys are out of the picture, the proportion of crap will increase, because scammers know they can still make a killing by selling crap and $40 is a drop in the bucket to them.

        So what price will knock out the crap?

        $100? $500? Yeah, I think $500 might do it. And if you can't get a decent ROI after paying $500, you're not good enough to play in the WSO section with the big guys.

        I'm serious. If the WSO forum is intended for the experienced, big-time marketers then price it accordingly. Otherwise the crap will still be there.

        Just watch.
        So scammers can't afford $500 ??? Wow, I didn't know there was an income limit for them.
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        • Profile picture of the author Gail_Curran
          Originally Posted by avenuegirl View Post

          So scammers can't afford $500 ??? Wow, I didn't know there was an income limit for them.
          You're missing the point. I'm not a scammer so I don't know what price level they would tolerate.

          The point is, price the WSO forum commensurate with the type of people you want posting there.
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          • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
            Originally Posted by Gail_Curran View Post

            You're missing the point. I'm not a scammer so I don't know what price level they would tolerate.

            The point is, price the WSO forum commensurate with the type of people you want posting there.
            No offense, Gail, but I think you are the one missing the larger point.

            How do you do that when you DON'T want scammers, who will pay just about anything, but DO want to make it affordable for both new and more established marketers?

            Answer, raise the price a bit and see what happens.

            Nobody is trying to force new people out, and nobody is saying only established marketers should run WSOs.

            All the best,
            Michael
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            "Ich bin en fuego!"
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            • Profile picture of the author Gail_Curran
              Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

              No offense, Gail, but I think you are the one missing the larger point.

              How do you do that when you DON'T want scammers, who will pay just about anything, but DO want to make it affordable for both new and more established marketers?

              Answer, raise the price a bit and see what happens.

              Nobody is trying to force new people out, and nobody is saying only established marketers should run WSOs.

              All the best,
              Michael
              You're right. I don't understand the scammer mindset and I have no idea what they would or would not pay.

              Anyway, just putting in my 2 cents. I still honestly think this would be an interesting pricing experiment.
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          • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
            Originally Posted by Gail_Curran View Post

            You're missing the point. I'm not a scammer so I don't know what price level they would tolerate.

            The point is, price the WSO forum commensurate with the type of people you want posting there.
            So, you only want to see offers there from people who don't mind plunking down $500 in advertising costs.


            I don't have an issue with the $500 - but I do think it will greatly limit the types of products offered as well as make someone think twice before putting a limited quantity on something.

            I currently enjoy the great variety, and I am always on the lookout for stuff that truly has a limited amount being offered at a specific lower price.
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            "May I have ten thousand marbles, please?"

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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
        Originally Posted by Gail_Curran View Post

        Ehh, I'm over it.

        But this should really be a pricing exercise.

        Raising the price from $20 to $40 knocks out a certain percentage of "small-time" marketers. And good riddance, according to all the "big-time" marketers here who were BORN knowing everything and never spent any time learning by doing, trial and error, mastering one small step at a time.

        But now that those little guys are out of the picture, the proportion of crap will increase, because scammers know they can still make a killing by selling crap and $40 is a drop in the bucket to them.

        So what price will knock out the crap?

        $100? $500? Yeah, I think $500 might do it. And if you can't get a decent ROI after paying $500, you're not good enough to play in the WSO section with the big guys.

        I'm serious. If the WSO forum is intended for the experienced, big-time marketers then price it accordingly. Otherwise the crap will still be there.

        Just watch.
        Hi Gail,

        Nah, small-time marketers are just as prone to offering crap as everybody else. Crap isn't a function of how big of a marketer you are, it's a function of lack of knowledge or lack of ethics (depending on intention).

        "If the forum is intended for the experienced, big-time marketers..."? No worries, it isn't. It's intended for virtually anybody who is willing to follow a few simple rules.

        Over it, huh?



        All the best,
        Michael
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        "Ich bin en fuego!"
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        • Profile picture of the author Gail_Curran
          Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

          Hi Gail,

          Nah, small-time marketers are just as prone to offering crap as everybody else. Crap isn't a function of how big of a marketer you are, it's a function of lack of knowledge or lack of ethics (depending on intention).

          "If the forum is intended for the experienced, big-time marketers..."? No worries, it isn't. It's intended for virtually anybody who is willing to follow a few simple rules.

          Over it, huh?



          All the best,
          Michael
          I like you, Michael.

          But you're missing the point.

          $40 does nothing to eliminate crap. It eliminates anyone who can't afford or chooses not to pay $40 for whatever reason. And if that's how people want it, great.

          But it doesn't reduce the amount of crap

          And if $500 or $1000 is too much for an ad, why?
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  • I think it's going to make things a lot harder to get an offer up and running that way. $40 to me, is not a small amount of money.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patient-X
    First off this is my first post but i have been around here for a long long time, just never got round to posting!

    Its an obvious move to try and cut back on all of the repetitive and useless crap that gets sold. Don't get me wrong, there is some fantastic WSO out there, giving you great ideas and tips on how to succeed in the Internet Marketing World.

    Instead of just increasing the price by 100% maybe the forum should look at offering a more in depth WSO Section. Having different categories and price ranges depending on your product type, WSO Experience and product quality. This would easily put a halt to members who just sign up, make a few posts become a war room member and then submit there WSO so they can make some quick cash!

    Just my thoughts though guys...
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  • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
    I always worry threads like this will make Allen say, "I'm done - WSO section gone. Thank you for playing. Tired of the bitching."

    I'd really hate that and no, my business doesn't rely on WSOs - but it's damn nice to have access to at such a small ad price (I used to deal with offline ads and they'd kill your budget - most wouldn't be able to afford it and good luck getting it read or shown to such a targeted audience as this).

    I think I'll let Allen run his business and I'll mind mine. Whatever he decides works for me - he's obviously doing something right with such a successful forum.
    tiff
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  • Profile picture of the author KarlWarren
    Not since 8am... so, you're the first today
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    eCoverNinja - Sales Page Graphics & Layout Specialist
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  • Profile picture of the author NoGimmicks
    I'll be honest - when I first saw about the price hike this morning I initially felt it was a bad thing - primarily because I'm looking to run a couple in the not too distant future.

    But I don't run my business on feelings, I run it based on information wherever possible so have done some number crunching.

    Although I'm not posting all the figures here, looking at the top 5 pages even the poorest performing offer has the chance to break even, even at just the front end...

    Purely looking at the number of views the offers got, only 3% of those received less than 100 views (including those just posted where the view count is 0).

    That could be for many reasons, but if the headline copy isn't grabbing people then the sales letter may not grab them either. BUT even those had a chance at breaking even assuming a modest 2% conversion on a $19.95 product, or a 6% conversion @ $7.00 etc. (Assuming no costs were involved for bumping of course).

    The majority of posts got more than 100 views (34% received 0-1000 views) so the chance of profitability on the front end of those appears to be quite strong.

    Clearly I don't hold all the facts here, as it's impossible to know which threads have been bumped (although with some it's very obvious), and how many times they may have been bumped.

    To me, the numbers appear to show that
    • newer marketers will still have a good shot at profitability even if they just use the front end, and
    • unfortunately - I don't think it will do anything to cut down on the many poorer quality hit-and-run products, which is a shame.

    Quite a few people here have already suggested a reputation/feedback scheme - I agree that it could be much more powerful than simply trying to price scammers out of the market.

    Sure - it could also be prone to abuse, but it stands a better chance of achieving the aim of reducing scammy WSO's than just a pricing hike in my opinion.

    Martin
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    Sick of your products ending up on warez sites?
    Keep an eye out for StealthMarker...
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  • Profile picture of the author lstoops
    There was another thread where Allen said he was going to try a couple of things to help with getting rid of scammers (maybe it was in the war room). Anyway, he is NOT doing it for money that is for sure. I'm sure he has a few other ideas on what to do to keep the integrity of the WF. If price doesn't work something else will.
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  • Profile picture of the author Caleb Spilchen
    I didn't read through this whole thread... It's way too long.. But, I did read every post by Allen.

    Here's my thought:

    If Allen had said prior there would be a change, a ton of wso's would have been bumped within a couple hours.. Would those bumps even help? Probably not, they would have just made the front page saturated with 50 bumped offers in the last 5 minutes... Would that help your wso, to sink to the bottom of the page.

    It was worth $20 whenever could post for $20, now it's $40, it's worth $40, because it means less bumps and posts... no? Doesn't it make it more valuable, without the huge saturation factor, aka other threads.

    Steven, Your wife should join the WF, and read that... You out kissing tattooed ladies LOL.

    Allen, Good decision. I hope this helps remove the crap... Maybe there should be some hired WSO mods, who actually look at the products (I know, a lot of work), but it would cut down on the PLR crap in there... Actually, probably a bad idea, way too much work.. but still.

    Caleb
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    Canadian Expat Living in Medellin, Colombia

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  • Profile picture of the author Angela Neo
    I just posted an ad on Warriors For Hire. At first I thought it was just for that section. Well, I don't think the new $40 price will deter those rehashed and hyped up WSOs. They are the ones that make a lot of money!
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  • Profile picture of the author DogScout
    Problem with price increase is the ones promising a 'magic bullet' can sell 100+ easy. Twice as many non-members are on this board as members, (even if the 'who is here' list lists people twice as long as they are here-> that is still 500+ members and 1,000+ non-members at any given time). With 15 million+ people in the US alone out of work for 6 months+, I am willing to bet most of the non-members are so because this forum advocates work instead of an elusive 'magic bullet'.

    Those non-members are still able to buy WSOs (Yes, I tried not logged in and it goes through).

    Charge $100, (which is closer but still not what that board is worth, assuming one has decent copywriting skills), and the 'magic bullet' sellers will still find it very profitable to run 'magic bullet' WSOs. People WANT to believe.

    Plus the difficulty of new people, (who may not quite 'get' list making/upsells/OTOs/etc), using that board to test offers/copywriting/pricepoints is now a higher cost... BUT I still maintain, at $40, it is still MUCH cheaper than most ways of testing those things.

    A war room membership at $37 is almost a joke. That resource is worth hundreds if not thousands. Allen is VERY generous to have that resource available at such a ridiculously low price-point. $40 for a WSO is also low, in my opinion. 10 pages of opinion and complaints is almost also a joke. I do not know when the forum became a democracy... OR when some people thought so...

    When a WR membership costs half of what it is worth (instead of a tenth or less) and WSOs cost is in relation to the outside world, THEN we'll hear some interesting 'opinions'. Lol

    *Mine included, I guess, huh?*


    Mark
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  • Profile picture of the author Gavin Abeyratne
    HA!

    A forum of marketers scared off by a measly $20 price bump?

    Shameful!

    Make an extra WHOPPING 3 sales of your $7 product to cover it, and you'll even have a buck left for a soft serve cone at McDonalds.

    Seriously...

    If you're still worried, have a look inside that War Room membership you paid for.

    The copywriting info in there is strong enough to send conversions into the stratosphere.
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  • Profile picture of the author Richelo Killian
    I have worked with customers who spend around $50K per MONTH on adwords. They KNOW their numbers, and they make around $75K to $100K per month before expenses.

    So, $40 for a market test to see how your copy and product does.... PLEASE!

    Make it $140, and it would STILL be MEGA cheap!

    As MANY others have said in this thread.... If you knew what you were doing, it would not matter in the least what the pricing is on the WSO section.

    If you can't make the $40 back within an hour of posting your WSO, you need to go back to marketing school first.

    I do NOT mean to offend anyone!
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    • Profile picture of the author Alan Petersen
      According to Entrepreneur magazine the cost to put a classified ad:

      $5 to $100 per line, depending on the publication, geographic areas, time of year, number of ads you buy, and whether you sign a contract or purchase ads on a week-to-week basis.
      Ask for ad rate cards of some of the big web sites out there and you'll fall off your chair.

      Allen could make a lot of money plastering the Warrior Forum with banners but he does not so to think the price increase is just so he "can make more money" is laughable. And even if it were true, so what? This is his forum.

      $40 to advertise in the #1 IM forum online is still dirt cheap. I don't think it won't stop the scammers and charlatans but who knows, you gotta try things out.

      The world nor Allen Says owe us a living so if you can't afford $40 tough.

      Over the years there have been countless of threads about increasing the price of WSO's now that he does some people are upset. Damned if you do. Damned if you don't.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Dolan
    I think its a question of you pay your money and you take your choice. There is no choice to reach the Warriors - it should encourage more Joint Ventures, and List Building.
    Personally the ROI of WSO's goes down somewhat each time you run a new one, as your list will buy without you posting a WSO. So I guess you need to consider when to run a WSO.

    You can still make your money, but very likely you will bump a thread less, much less. Some $20 bumps (when the offer has almost run its course still bring in 3 or 4 sales) ... but now you need to target your timing for max audience, and make sure you are getting people to opt-in to build your list.

    An email or announcement would have been good, but might have caused an unwelcome spike.

    I will be launching something new next week - lets see how that goes :-)

    Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Caleb said:
    I didn't read through this whole thread... It's way too long.. But, I did read every post by Allen.
    ... and proceeded to make several suggestions which had already been made more than once through the course of the thread. I think we've reached the point at which there's going to be nothing new said on the subject.

    Time to close it up.


    Paul
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    Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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