It would have been a little more diginified if he warned members who contribute greatly to this forum and pay the fees of the WSO (which pays the bills)

And a twofold rise is a little wierd, in my eyes a good move, but badly implemented.

Well, time would tell, The problem with that section use
to be blamed on the cost--it was free, and adding a
price was to fix the problems and I guess it didn't.

Then they tried requiring a War Room membership
and that didn't work.

Maybe $40 is the magic number.

We are in the testing phase.

-Ray Edwards

Yeah, I just listed some websites for sale and found the same thing.

I'm not sure how I feel about it.

Of course it hurts to pay an extra $20 but potentially it could gain you more money if your offer stays on page 1 for longer (not so much in the websites for sale section as that doesn't move so fast as the WSO section)

I guess time will tell!

Lee

It's awesome in the sense that its goal is to eliminate many of the low quality money-grab WSOs that the section has become diluted with. The intention is admirable but I'm not sure how effective it will be. It seems to me that it will still be very rare that a WSO poster will ever end in the red. I'd like to actually see it raised even more.

BryanC most of the terrible WSO will still pop up, as long as they make anything over the fixed cost of running the WSO a lot of people are happy.

The increase is not justified I do not believe. Is the bump still $20? Or is that also $40?

Well I'm going to be soft with my commend since I can not afford to be banned...

Increasing the price doesn't bother me but A nice touch would have been to send out an email to everyone just to let us know about it.

There's people involved not just nickname and bank accounts...

My 2 cents

What's the added value to warrant the price increase?
WarriorPro included now ???
(One can only hope...

Live JoyFully!

Judy

A heads up would have been nice but on reflection, there clearly would have been a bump rush prior to any changes being made. Nothing major but certainly a "waste" of a bump.

Hopefully, we find posting there will be relatively price elastic and if it cuts out some of the crap we see there - then I'm all for it.

If the change cuts the WSO's in half and the price to list is doubled ,then it balances out regardless and any claims it's "all about the money" simply aren't true.

Besides.. it's $20.. if that's too much for people right now then do something else until it's no longer a problem, put your fingers in a few more pies.

I think we're going to see more expensive crap. So, yeah. Good decision.

I think it might cause WSO to be used exclusively by the old timers selling rehashed material that they know will generate enough sales to cover the new fee.

The newbies who are getting their feet wet and anyone who has a genuinely new product that they just can't charge $297 for out of the gate will be discouraged by the new price.

But you have to spend money to make money as they say. The new WSO price will still be plenty reasonable for people with established products.

I'm not sure this will do anything beyond raise prices. Instead of $7 for crap, it'll be $14. LOL

But something had to be done, so might as well test this option. The problem is, the problem will be worse 10-fold if he ever lowers it back. So we're likely stuck with at least this new price. $20 is gone forever, imho. If it works, I won't complain at all.

John

It will help Allen recoup the cash he is evidently down on since knocking out all the link services etc that were 25% or more of the listed WSO's.

Lets hope his plan to get the cash back does not back fire.

So now you wait until you make a bit more profit before bumping it. No big deal.

Most of my sales come through my signature link, and the initial posting. I still bump from time to time, and it does give sales a boost, but the secret to selling WSOs, apart from a good offer is...

Contribution.

The more you contribute, the more you will get noticed, and the more people will feel like they know you.

On the other hand, I wouldn't say I'm thrilled about this decision, but my world isn't going to come to an end because of it.

In the end, it may not be a good or bad thing, really, just different.

All the best,
Michael

If this move was made to cut down on the crappy WSO's being posted, as mentioned in another thread, then I don't believe it will have the desired effect. There are other measures I would personally have implemented before raising the price.

Amen! Great move as far as I'm concerned. Higher price = a slower moving train. WSOs will stay on page 1 & 2 longer.

Just wanted to comment on all the responses that a "warning message" of the pending increase would have been nice...

...I don't think you realize the mass wave of WSOs that would have just flooded the section the minute such a message would have been sent.

So sure...you get your WSO in for $20...and then 5 seconds later it'd be on the bottom of page as the THOUSANDS of Warrior Members who received the same message ALSO submit their "close to finished" products to "save" $20.

Really...any tip off that a pending increase was coming would have had more complaints than benefits...not to mention the then "forced" $40 bump to get your "just paid for" WSO back on Page 1...

So ya...

In terms of slowing down the "crap" released, I think implementing a minimum Post Count (to show how you've helped improve the community prior to selling stuff to it) and maybe even a required amount of time being a member... I dunno

~Dexx

Steven Wagenheim - Good points.

Question: Does WF consider itself an open incubator for new marketers?

Just wondering, because the increase makes it much less appealing.

Like Steven said - for the small guy who still has an honest product but, a low cost product, this price increase, I think, is unreasonable and gives good reason to not participate in WSOs. So, value lost for the WF. bummer.

Standards, not Price, is a better way to increase value to the WF and WSOs. Raising the standards would certainly weed out the bad offers. Raising the price only weeds out more marketers, many of them with solid products that are a good value.

Here's my post from they skyrocketing "Pet Peeves" post...

Quote:
Originally Posted by djleon1

• Have a required field where it is told what the WSO actually does. This should not be too specific but at least give the buyer some idea. Is it software, videos, etc.
• No More Monetary Claims
• Limit the listing to under 700 words or some number that works
• Limit the # of WSO's a member can run at any one time.
• Only one WSO per product - I have seen multple wso's selling the same product. Split-test somewhere else.
• If there are upsells, recurring fees etc they need to be disclosed.
• The product needs to be complete unless disclosed - no buy my WSO for $7 but inorder for it to work you will need to buy product X from me for $97

I think this is a good set of standards.

• They are all achievable
• they favor the buyer
• they do not create unreasonable work for the seller

These standards force sellers to create better products based on disclosure of (1) What the product actually does (and not overstating what it is not), and (2) having to be more succinct in stating the main features and benefits which would make it easier for buyers to read through the fluff. If there is even room for fluff.

The one point I'd like to change is that all WSOs should ALWAYS be a complete product with no upsells attached to "make it work."

Raising the price would only penalize the new marketer making an honest effort to sell a few products, or those who sell lower price products. Just because a product has a low price does not mean its a bad or unworthy product.

A someone who has recently joined this community after being away for years, I'd gladly pay $100 (hypothetically:-) for the opportunity to participate in a forum that is chock full of knowledge, experience and expertise on the topic of making money online.

Well instead of making around $2,500 a day from the WSO board Allen will now make $5,000/day (+/-) or $1.8 million a year so I see it as a smart move.

Personally I'd like to see the price increase to $100+, that will stop the fly by nights.

But then, on the other hand, it might stop newbies marketers from making their first moves in IM.

Want to know what I find to be the funniest thing of all?

I'll tell you.



There are more people complaining about the price going from $20 to $40, then complained about it going from $0 to $20.

That just seems odd to me.

Yes?

All the best,
Michael

Does anyone have any data on the performance difference between selling a product on the WSO forum versus just selling it in the classified ads section?

If newbies like me could be comfortable knowing that our products have just as much of a chance at selling in the classifieds forum as in WSO, just taking longer, it might not be a big deal.

Here is my take...the warning would have been nice, but like anything else that does well prices go up.

I like selling higher quality WSO for cheap as it can out to more people (I am sure if it was only about money, you can make the same on both cheap or expensive, depends on your game plan). This will force me to make the prices of my WSO more.

Cheers
Mukul

HA HA HA HA HA!!! Sorry, but this thread is hilarous.

If the WSO forum IS your only source of income, and an increase in $20 for the fee is your main concern, what would you do if it was shut down forever?

Bye bye business...!

Here's the sensible approach...

Take some of your eggs and put them in another basket.

If you rely on the money that the WSO forum brings you, and you can't pay your bills without it - you should seriously consider the consequences of losing that income stream.

If you're a freelancer, you're probably already leaving money on the table by not asking for repeat business from your existing clients.

If you're offer products, build your FUNNEL, build your LIST and look after it.

For me (at least this year), my WSO's have been entry points into my funnel. I sell my stuff for stupidly low prices and ride the break-even point on the front end.

For me, this will mean one of four things:

1. I test raising/lowering prices so that I maintain the balance
2. I bump fewer products and stop bumping sooner in the product cycle
3. I work harder at adding new products to the funnel and bump the new WSO's for a briefer time period
4. I stop using the WSO section for this purpose

Of the four, #2 will happen first.


(And if it goes away, it's really not a crisis.)

There was a warning... If you see the thread about WSO's and complaints that has been active in the last couple days, which is here you will see allen mentions this as a possibility.

The post got lots of thanks

IMHO it wont raise the quality of WSO's because a lot of scammers are good at making money.

If I run a WSO I plan on making more than $40 anyway or I wouldn't be runinng one.

Well, I only post my offers in the Complete Sites for Sale section as inexpensive PLR sites. This will change the number of listings I bump. When you don't have the huge headlines promising thousands in minutes, you don't have the same kind of sales, so it's a factor. I just lowered my prices, which I probably wouldn't have done if I had known.

I'm on the more is better side. 60-100 would even be better.

For those of you chasing black helicopters...

Only Allen knows for sure, but I strongly suspect that many of the changes he's made to the WSO policies have lowered his income from that section. This change will probably do the same (short term). Only time will tell what it will mean for him in the long term.

If you honestly think Allen is trying to milk this forum for all he can, you really need to open your eyes.

More money is the only reason. I find it humorous that so many people are trying to make excuses for the increase in prices when the real reason is as plain as day. So many of you want to act like this place is run by folks who are saintly. Only in it to help others when, in fact, they are just like us and want to make money.

Follow the link in my sig to get my new report:

HOW TO LIST/BUMP YOUR WSO FOR FREE!!!
ONLY $97

Only 50 copies remaining

I think the price increase can end up being a good thing, and I hardly believe Alan raised the price to bilk more money out of the WSO section.

I also think a more strict enforcement of the WSO rules needs to take place, and income claims if can't be substantiated should not be allowed in any part of a wso thread.

People offering services by using accounts they have with other vendors should be completely cut from the forum in my opinion. If they don't own the site they have no business using it to make money which takes away from the original owners potential market. It is especially bad that Vendor A who, spent tons of time, and money to provide a service to have a member of that service turn around and be allowed to resell it on the same venue resulting in competing against the the vendor who actually owns the service. That's not good, I don't tolerate it and its against my TOS and I do find my users who do it and ban them immediately. Sorry kinda ended up ranting there a bit. = )

Just my two cents.

PS: I plan on bumping every other day btw. = )

The only effect will be that the price for buying WSO's will rise too. It seems that where there used to be plenty of $ 10 and $ 12 WSO's that now $ 17/27/37 seem to be the norm. The "SO" portion of WSO's seems to be forgotten by many who see the WSO as the means to a quick buck without the thought of giving back to the community.

Not that I expect much else these days.... but there are many Warriors who still offer a great deal on their WSO's and really deliver.... and many who don't.

The little guys need to stop thinking like little guys though, and realise that the money is OUT there waiting for them to claim it.

It's not as hard as people want to believe it is.

Most of the little guys just have to actually DO something instead of hoping that things will come to them - they have to take the fight to their target market.

First, I am glad that Allen did not make an announcement that this was going to occur. I fully believe that this would have resulted in a MASSIVE flood of bumps and posts. The net result would have been a lot of wasted cash, because several people would have been on page 1 one moment and pushed out the next.

There is an option of the person who is on the fence about whether or not they should post a WSO, because they are not sure if they will cover the $40 price.

Go ahead and make your WSO offer, but place it on the classified ad portion of the forum. Then place the link to that in your sig file and start contributing like crazy to the forum.

If you minimally price your offer at the very low end of $7, then you only need to make 6 sales before you have earned enough to cover the WSO cost. Then invest that amount and post the WSO.

The best part about that is by the time you do this, you will find that you have a good group of testimonials for the offer.

-Scott Voss

I'm sorry, but I just can't get behind this line of thinking.

You're only a "little guy" (or gal) if you think you are.

If you have a good offer, the increase to $40 won't affect a "little guy" any differently than the "guys with plenty of money and reputation". It's not like you're running a full page magazine ad and the price just went from $15,000 to $30,000.

It's $40. And your ad gets put in front of thousands of people looking to buy. They don't just happen across your ad while reading the current issue's spin on "7 easy steps to 6 pack abs". These are people that fit a certain demographic and psychographic that come to a specific forum looking to spend money on specific types of products and services.

If you don't have an offer capable of generating a positive ROI in a situation like that, you're a "little guy" because of your mindset rather than your bank account balance.

It'll certainly cut some of the crap going through!

I don't sell there and rarely buy, so not really a real consideration for me personally... :rolleyes:

My take is if some of the money were used to 'check' at least new people that do not already have a rep's 1st 1-3 WSOs, that might be the solution to the 'crappy WSO' problem. Of course, people that have a history of good WSOs do not need to be checked.

Otherwise, if you think about it, $40 is not an outrageous amount for what you are getting. If you were not selling on this forum, you'd likely be spending 10+ times that in time and/or money marketing a sales page.:confused:

Someone mentioned Allen's income would go from $900,000 a year to 1.8 million on that one board; his income is really not a factor, IMHO. He is allowed (in America) to make as much as he possibly can. That is just a reality and I do not think anyone, with an ounce of sense, can defend that he ought not to be making as much as he can.

My ½ a cent

Mark

Ya know, I'm reading about all this "good" and "I'm glad", and this is done for a reason stuff. Yes, it can possibly be a good thing.

However, step out of your shoes for a moment. Most of the people make the "I'm glad" comments, and "it should be more" statements, are from the United States! Payments are made in U.S dollars. $40 U.S. in some countries will be $80 in comparison in their currency.

So the question becomes, are the people creating craptacular WSO's in foreign countries?

The only thing an increase in price will do is: 1.) Raise product prices, and 2.)Potentially raise quality.

Instead of text based Ebooks, we'll have some with graphics.

I'm a little depressed about this move.
Double the price is a bad move, made only to rush up mor emoney I think.
The problem is Warrior Forum has no competition at all, and the next month can double it to $80.

By the other side, we will stay on page 1 for longer, because we will never see the newbies trying to see $5 reports or make a try.
And that's a good thing.

We will see in a few weeks if this move is made with care or not.
But I think the boys at WF have took their time to decide and fully evaluate positive and negative issues of their action.

I know only that is difficult to recover $40, and especially the Bumps are gone up too much.
The prices will go up, and I think they will be doubled as well, and this is a bad things for customers but good for sellers.

It's a bad day, also because that was at all unexpected and I'm not prepared and a little bit confused.

Think people, think...
Only the time can give us a solution.

See you soon,
Alessandro Zamboni

I only skimmed the thread, but want to put in my 2 cents about this, sorry if any of this is a repeat. I feel like eliminating the crap would be great, the make xxxx in 1 day by eating bananas crap has to go, but you want to know the only real way to eliminate it? Its not making WSO's $200, its to stop consuming it. Stop buying crap after you have read 5,000 threads about how there is not magic button or system, stop falling prey to sleazy sales tactics, your not going to make 9k in 7 days watching over his or her shoulder. The other thing I want to bring up is how much is a small classified ad in a niche magazine or periodical? When you compare costs, $40 may seem great, ot it may seem outrageous, but you have to compare. Sure go sell on DP or other places, deal with everyone asking for review copies and others saying untrue negative crap about something you are selling. I think the $40 wso gives some nice protection of staying within the community.

I run a ton of WSO's and I welcome this and any future price increases. I imagine the exposure on page 1 will increase.

[DELETED]

What really needs to be done is ADD some more Moderators to the payroll!
Change can come from actual work vs. automation too.

I haven't read this whole thread yet but I have to make a point many here seem to be missing or simply not know about.

People on the Internet are incredibly spoiled. I started out offline, in classifieds ads. Try your hand at making money with those in the back of magazines and then come back here to the WSO section and see the difference.

The fact is, $20 is so cheap that people don't even have to try. They don't even to learn basic copywriting skills. They don't have to do much more than spend an evening writing up some junk and throwing it up there.

Please, do me a favor and give offline classifieds a shot. I can tell you now that 99% of the people who make money online right now would fail offline. Probably more...

Even at $40 the truth is it's still too cheap for the amount of traffic that comes through here. If I was someone out to truly squeeze every dime out of a site possible things would be far different than they are right now, trust me on that.

Allen

[DELETED]

My goodness there's a lot of entitlement complex going on in this thread.

Wake up everyone. This forum doesn't owe you anything.

I think if you look at the effects mathematically you will gain better insight into the effects. For example, If the majority of the people believe it will slow down the thread then what is the natural progression?...Bump your thread at the optimal time. Now if only 30 of us believe that is at 5:00PM on Tuesday, then guess what? You just spent $40 to be potentially number 30 on page 1 in a matter of minutes. In other words, the problem is not solved, and that theory is disproven.

Now...

Let's say the majority of people think it will change nothing. What is the natural progression then? Do the SAME thing you have always done and the speed of the thread remains relatively the same. No change.

I can tell you from a personal point of view, I will no longer be bumping my thread. I refuse to sell to 300+ people at a great price and then jack it up because I have to make 3x as many sales to cover the cost. That is just bad business IMHO (Not bad in the real world, but definitely bad for a WSO that explicitly states the price MUST be lower than what the buyer can get elsewhere. One of the fundamental driving principals of a WSO IS the cost!

$7 is a common bargain for a WSO, and instead of 3 sales to cover the cost it now requires 6. Six sales for a brand new WSO from an unknown marketer is a daunting task. And it's not just 6 sales. It's 6 sales every day or every other day (or every third day). That only comes easy to handful of marketers.

Now before some of you go off the deep end about "well, create a high quality product and develop a good reputation", remember this:

The majority of the most successful marketers of WSO's developed that reputation as a result of free posting. Testing the waters was easy and FREE. That is not even remotely an option for many now. The caveat to this is the majority of brand new WSO's will likely be the products of established and reputable marketers which will offer "them" free reign over cost.

I have found a lot of great stuff at $7 in the past, but the important thing to note here is that I found it BECAUSE it was $7. Not everyone can be a great copywriter, and regardless of how good a product is, the message isn't always going to be conveyed clearly. Some of you are outstanding marketers, the rest of us may not be. But that is of no consequence to the quality of products being marketed.

I agree that $40 is extremely unappealing to a new marketer who has NO idea how their product will perform.

I also agree that driving traffic from alternate sources is a great solution.

Now after reading the entire thread I must say that the "surprise" of the price increase was the only way to go with this.

As an individual living on a fixed (and very humble) income, this affects me significantly, notwithstanding the fact I never tried to scam anyone here.

Maybe a better solution may have been a requirement to submit the actual product for evaluation prior to posting the WSO, I don't know.

Just my 2 1/2 cents! :-)

John

Personally, I don't think that the price of entry will have any effect on quality. Some of my favorite gems from the WSO section came from some very poorly written headlines. The only way we're going to weed out bad players is to have more people get involved in leaving feedback after a purchase.

Just let's be clear here:
1. WSO's - $40
2. WSO Bumps - $40
3. Classified (currently at $40) -- but that will be fixed.
4. Products & Services - $40 ??
5. Warriors for hire -- $40??

Not sure on 4 & 5 - anyone can clear that up?

The price should not be a problem if it does actually manage to weed out any of the crap. If it does, great, I would like to pay $40 to have my wso stay on the first page for longer when I launch my article writing wso.

Just posted a WSO and noticed the change. Came to the main forum to rant and saw this thread. I've read it.....I get it.....I'm over it!

Caiden

It's just made it more expensive (doubled the price) for lead generation.

Those people starting out, or with a legit service trying to make a name for themselves will find it too expensive, unless they learn or hire someone expert at copywriting to make them sales to cover the cost.

lol I bet this thread goes on for pages.

Where do I stand in this, well lets put it this way, I stopped posting WSO's months ago because I just couldn't see the point. It got lost very quickly amongst the crap.

I looked in there earlier today and clicked away because it was suh a mess. I'll probably start using it again now it's getting cleaned up.

I used to use the WSO forum mainly to test out my stuff and to give warriors a decent price on articles and whatever else I was selling, I've never used it as a main source of income and to be honest if you're doing so, then you're mad.

I mentioned in a previous thread on this topic, and I think its been said on this thread also, where else could you put your product in front of so many laser targeted prospects for such a small amount of money. (A definite entitlement mentality in this place)..

Count yourself lucky the boss didn't raise the price any higher. (I'd certainly be ok with it if he did)

Kim

In the end, it will definitely hurt some of the business models in various niches.
Again, you look at a graphic designer vs. a software developer.

There is a complete difference in production in both categories. I'm not just talking about WSO's here -- I'm talking about each pay for section -- particularly for example SITES FOR SALE section.

That can be considered like a WSO as well, based on the same service level being provided. So this is why some people definitely have a valid & legitimate disagreement with a high price increase. Again, if any of the stated logic was true, than why not make it $80 or even $100? If this is about length of exposure as one issue.

This is so funny!
Do I take this to mean that you guys didn't actually:
"Make a $1M in three days selling octopus sweat" or
"receive $38k daily from frying rats spleens"
WSO price up is good. Means the quality will improve.

I'm thinking a couple of things.
1. I HOPE to see marketers actually making money sharing how they can afford to post and bump there WSOs LOL just kidding.

2. Warriors are going to have to be more creative in their approach to get buyers. How can you still be the $7 seller and still rack up? How can you remain the same despite the changes around you. Its possible, and we'll find out who can do it and who can't.

3. With a higher price tags, you'll have less posting and bumps which should mean a longer life on page one...gives people a chance to make some cash. Woohoo!

4. People will think twice before putting junk up, because everyone who comments will have a higher chance of being seen, so if you get a lot of comments saying your stuff is junk more people will see and it'll crush your credibility. Think twice about putting up junk.

Just some thoughts, but who knows what will come of this change. Hopefully nothing but good :-)

make it $50 and pay a wso mod or two a few $ to weed out the crap while the update / changes are in the water.

If you think increasing the price from $20 to $40 will halve the number of posts/bumps then you are saying that 50% of people posting/bumping are selling > $20 and < $40 on each post/bump.

If you think increasing the price from $20 to $40 will double the price of the item for sale I suggest you find a text book and look up "fixed vs variable costs".

Maybe. Might also just mean you'll pay a little more for the same old crap.

I hope Allen is correct that this will help weed out the garbage, but it could be nothing more than inflation. Just like businesses pass on the cost of higher taxes to consumers, junk peddlers might pass on the cost of higher WSO fees to buyers.

Or maybe they'll just take the hit. If a crap WSO sells for $20 and it sells a modest 30 copies, that's $600. If he paid $20 to make that $600 he clears $580. If he pays $40 he clears $560. I don't see that as being a big hindrance myself, but Allen has information I don't have access to, so like I said, I hope he's right about it weeding out the junk.

I just hope it doesn't clear out so many marginal sellers that the percentage of crap actually increases.

PS - If it does clear out the crap, I think I'll post a new WSO.

I'm afraid the price increase will not help cleaning up the WSO section.
We will wait and see.

$40 or $50? Bring it on.

I just realised that the price was raised today. Less Junk more quality WSOs

I think it's a great idea. It will keep more of the crap out. If you are really worried about recouping that $20, your WSO probably needs some work.

This whole situation kind of reminds me of governmental
intervention in free markets... usually when the government
(or any other outside force) interferes with the natural price
of a good being sold, no good comes from it.

What if (instead of a base cost) the cost of running a WSO
was relative to the amount of new WSOs being bumped or
created every day?

You know... that whole 'supply and demand' thing.

Technically, I'm sure it's possible to code out some type of
algorithm that determines pricing. Shouldn't be incredibly hard.

HOWEVER.

Aside from my free-market point of view, I'm cool with the
price increase. Like others have said... if the extra $20 keeps
you from making a profit, you simply need to take another
look at how you're running things.

This will only be good for the WSO forum IMHO

I laugh at the fact that people complain about the obviously piss-poor WSOs that have been sold at $20... and that the moment someone raises a price, there's more moaning and bickering - but no, this time it's because "Allen" is trying to squeeze money out of people.

ROFLMAO... serious?

$40 is squeezing? $40 isn't even a meal for two at a casual restaurant. There are plenty of WSOs here for $1997, $2997... more than ten times what that measly $40 means. If your product is solid, then $40 is nothing.

I agree there should be standards and even a "WSO review team" that can assess products - for a fee - and then allow them to be posted. If you're posting crap, it should be noted that your WSOs are crap anyway.

The only thing that will change is more money in the pocket of the forum owners, and some cheap (<$10) or beginner marketer wso's with to low ROI will drop out.

The bumping of WSO's will not get any slower. For example I'm always waiting for my WSO to land on page4 and I will asap pay for a bump.. Just like 100+ other people with successfull WSO's. This will just continue as it always did. Speed will remain exactly the same.

This price increase is just a matter of supply and demand. I would do the same thing if I where the owner of warriorforum.

At the end of the day Allen makes the decision and even if he raises the price to $100 one day I will not have an issue. At least we will see quality WSOs Allen's kingdom, he does what he want and we have to respect that.

I think that eventually, everyone will get used to the $40 and it won't be a big issue as it will be "the norm." As humans, we hate change when it happens, naturally. But we also get used to it. Of course, many people love change, especially when they think they can benefit from change.

I think a lot of the "oh yes, now the WSO forum will have less junk" comments are those who think the change will benefit them. However, as we all know and several have commented, some of the most BS WSOs you can buy sell hundreds of copies and I don't see those kind of WSOs going by the wayside, as they do well. I have been suckered from time to time buying WSOs that even have great reviews from many members, even respected members, only to read a half-assed, sloppily written, unorganized WSO that leaves out tons of details on how to use the information properly, or just plain was made up and really doesn't work without a lot more no-how.

With the feel good factor in some WSO threads even after people have bought it, it's as if you're feeding people crap sometimes yet telling them it's a $1000 dish made by the World's Greatest Chef and even after eating it they still believe it's a $1000 dish because the salesman got them to drink the Kool-Aid before eating the crap and they can barely taste anymore.

It boggles my mind sometimes. Something that could have been whipped up in a couple hours and sells for the price of a hardback book which takes 2 years to write.

Then there are those WSOs that cost under $10 and are a goldmine of information. And they sell a lot of copies and are really useful.

So, I think this will deter some would be marketers who want to copy the crap WSOs and get the fast money. I do. But I think those who are already great at it, even if their WSO is junk, will still put them up as $40 will be nothing to them.

I think it will also deter some newbies who have been told to sell a WSO as a way to make some money, telling something they know. Is that such a bad thing? If they're a complete newbie they can't know much. I think it depends on how you look at it.

If they go to the services section (which should be back to $20 at some point, if not already) and offer an article writing or graphic design service, etc. then they can still do that for the same price, there. Once they gain some experience and are sure they can get some good sales copy and sell a WSO, then they will only do so once they're sure it's worth the $40.

Originally, I was against raising the price as some of the WSOs Allen probably doesn't want will still be there unless there's more rigorous barriers put in place. But, at the same time,

Perhaps, like the original change of getting certain backlinking services out of their, the WSOs slowed down a bit and then the number of WSOs came back in a month, the same will happen and it will the same amount of WSOs, with the same in numbers of quality/junk WSOs in a month? Or will it truly be half the WSOs we have now, and thus they stay in the page longer?

Only time will tell.

I would think it was more worth it if you didnt have to wait 24 hours between bumps. This will make it take much longer to drop off to the 3rd page. However, it is Allens Decision not ours. There is stil some profit in it Im sure.

The thing is that a wso does alot of sales in the first two weeks, so its worth every bump... then it drifts off to a few a day... then it drifts off to about 2 or 3 sales every time you bump... sometimes not that depends on the time of day.

So, if you sell a $20.00 product... its worthwhile to keep bumping for eternity, because everytime you do you make a 20-40.00 profit...

At $40, it only means that the lifetime of a wso now has a shelf life... for a twenty dollar product it will only be worth promoting for a few weeks before it stops profiting.

Perhaps thats what allen is doing, keeping it fresh.

To those who are saying "nothing will change", I'd like to offer a ray of hope. One thing may change...

People won't take the WSO section for granted as much as they used to.

Just a thought.

All the best,
Michael

I cannot keep up with this thread. I am scared to blink.

I think its great. For those who ad true value, their competition will be cut and they will receive MORE traffic and more sales because of this change (theoretically).

You know, it may take a series steps to stop the junk.

1. Impose a 3 to 6 month membership time frame.
2. Impose a 100 post limit. (also hard code a higher character limit per post)
3. Keep the war room requirement.
4. Implement some sort of rep system.

Sure, each one of those can be "gamed' some way - but the combination of all 4 could very well help cut the crap.

A lot of scammers won't have the patience to wait 6 months - and posting garbage will get them banned.

Then you have the rep system - sure it can be gamed, but the combo from the first 2 will I think - weed a lot out.

Rob

I would've liked a notice.

I understand the try to weed out crap and get rid of the 3 page reports that people sell for $17.

BUT, Those of us who take the time and effort to generate a good WSO will now also pay the price.

On top of that the SPECIAL in Warriors SPECIAL Offers is going to take a hit.

Now that prices have increased and no doubt will continue to, these $7 $10 $13 $17 WSO's are a thing of the past.

That's one point I do not like.

I enjoy the fact that I can offer my product that would normally sell for $30 or so for half the price.

but let's say I have a $17 WSO, I would need 3-4 sales a day just to break even with the advertising cost.

Now I know 3-4 isn't that much but when you're just breaking even with it, seems a little rough.

So with that in mind my WSO would need to go up several dollars so my normal 3-4 sales a day would put me over rather than even.

I duno man, I understand the logic behind it, but wow out of the blue like that? And again I hate that the SPECIAL is being taken out simply due to advertising costs

Allen,

Please raise the price for posting a WSO to $80.

I agree with you completely.

If one has copywriting skills and a good product - it will sell and make back the WSO price in minutes - even if priced at $17.

Thanks in advance,
Mike

Okay, I read the first two pages and then just skimmed, so I'm not sure if anyone pointed this out yet (I'll go back and reread the section between pages 3 and now after this post).

Here's my impression of the intention of the WSO section.

I thought it was intended for senior Warriors, veterans who had already been around the block once or twice, to share methods that really worked for them.

It's a way of giving back when you've received plentifully.

I don't think the idea was for newer Warriors to use the WSO section to break into the market here and build a reputation.

Therefore, this is still very much in line with the intention of the WSO forum, if I understand it correctly.

Sure, newer members might not have the $40, but you're not really supposed to be listing there until you've made plenty of money and you're now starting to share your techniques, skills, or whatever other finely honed expertise you can offer... and by that point, $20 extra shouldn't make that much of a difference.

My two Canadian cents.

Again, I understand the logic behind it all but there HAS to be another way.

What about the little guy?

I'm not a scammer, I'm not a fraud.

I spend A LOT of time and money trying my butt off to make a real business and real income online.

Now I will eventually get everything under wraps and be making buku bucks like most of you, but until then does that mean I get cancelled out?

It shouldn't.

Considering the exposure of a WSO offer, the targeted customer base and the potential for making way more than $40 it seems like a very good price. Keep in mind that if you post a WSO for a $5 product you just need to get 8 sales to make up the initial $40 investment, I have seen many WSO's make 8 sales within the first 30 minutes of the offer being posted.

Joel

My advice: Team up with other warriors to make a killer product that is a steal at $47. Then, split the bumps between you. Get some testimonials, then launch it for $97.

Start looking into partnerships as a way to stay ahead of the game.

I just released a new WSO last week, so when I was going to pay the bump fee, the $40 caught me completely off guard. At the time I was totally shocked that the fee went up 100%, but now thinking about all of the benefits, I really like the idea.

Something I have used many times with WSOs is the loss leader method mentioned by ccmusicman. It's an awesome way to build a buyers list that would be more than willing to purchase even more on the back-end... assuming you have a really awesome front-end product.

One thing that I've always wondered is why there are so many people who solely run their business in the WSO section. I understand that it is a very inexpensive way to advertise your product to thousands of targeted buyers, but this change will directly effect your bottom line.

I have read some posts in other threads of people complaining about the price killing their business. How about if the forum goes down for a day or so (like it did the other day)... looks like there won't be any sales coming in!!

Like some others have said here, the WSO section is probably best used as a testing ground for future product launches, services and other things.

Be a little creative with your selling, market well and offer amazing value in your WSOs and this price increase shouldn't make a difference.

[DELETED]

How about this:

1) WSO Base Rate of $20
2) $2 extra fee for every exclamation point in the sales copy
3) $50 extra fee for every stated claim that doesn't conform to FTC guidelines (ie, "You'll Make $1,000 In The Next 7 Days With The WSO Guaranteed")
-or-
4) An extra $20 fee to the seller for every buyer who states that the product did not live up to the WSO's extravagant claims.

I realize of course that none of those things could actually be implemented (except #2, charging per exclamation point), but if the goal is to keep bull****, semi-scammy, possibly illegal offers off the WSO board, raising the price won't do it, because as has been mentioned in this thread, those people can afford the higher fee.

Maybe it's been mentioned already...

Maybe it hasn't.

Increased costs get passed on to the end-user or customer in most businesses.

I think that the same phenomenon will occur here.

Contrary to others who have sung the praises of such a cost increase, I don't think this benefits anybody.

The whole idea of a "Warrior Special Offer" is to provide massive value to fellow warriors at a price much lower than it would be normally possible to get it at.

WHEN, (not "if") the additional costs of posting & bumping get passed on to the end-users (that's you & me) WSO's will be priced at a level comparable to Clickbank products.

$37, $47, $67, whatever. You get the idea.

Not every $7 WSO is crap. I've purchased some that were, certainly, but I've purchased lots that were great little guides for an outstanding price.

The age of the high value, low cost WSO is dead.

Hucksters and Snake Oil Salesmen will remain. Raising costs doesn't change that.

But the "little guy" trying to share his method will be deterred. And when it comes to the loss of low-cost high value material on the forum....

Every warrior loses.

Let's not forget that rip-off artists don't price their products low to begin with.

If all you're about is making a dollar, you're going to push for the highest fee you can "get away with".

Does anybody actually think that those types of people are going to be deterred by this cost increase?

If anything, this is a sad day for warriors looking for value on the WSO board.

So true, the honest, good WSO's that don't sell as well because they aren't full of bull**** hype, are going to struggle. Those that are crap make lots of money from their crap and they won't be bothered by $40 fee.

I have run a couple of WSO's recently and so far I am $12 in profit - why? Because my WSO is off the first page within hours and is lost in the sea of overhyped crap!

Raising the price is damaging the good, honest WSO's not the crap! So instead of weeding out the crap I think it is going to weed out many of the good quality WSO's.

Agreed.

And some warning would have been nice. I went to bump my WSO and not expecting an increase I went through they payment process on autopilot and clicked 'pay now' before I even noticed that it was $40. If I had noticed I would have thought twice about it!

And doesn't THAT suck

True, but in non-IM niches you can easily get free traffic with article marketing, SEO, etc. You don't have to buy it if you don't want to. Getting IM traffic with article marketing is harder, but not impossible. Getting traffic as a service provider for free is even harder. Or maybe I'm missing something.

You're all wrong, the price should have been $47.77

RoD

As a non-US writer who does not offer sexy services I do have to say that this price increase will affect my business. I prefer writing ebooks to articles so there is only a small targeted market that are interested in my services anyway and the WFH post I put up went to page two quite quickly. In NZ$ this increase is going to mean for me to bump my thread or post a new one (which I was going to do today lol) means it is going to cost me about $NZ65 which is like half my grocery budget - so for small operators like me this will impact the bottom line.

That said, by having the WFH thread in my signature that has made a difference and I like the fact that by hopefully giving helpful advice to others my business will increase as I am doing something I like which is reading and responding to forum messages. I am in this for the long haul so I respect the fact that the owners of this forum have as much right to increase their prices as any one else - heavens our government has raised GST (tax) on everything we buy as from Oct 1st - I imagine that is going to have more of an impact on my little business than this rise in the WSO prices. One thing I didn't see as I was reading through the posts here is have all prices gone up for all sections, or just the WSO - if someone could take the time to flick me a PM and just confirm that for me I would appreciate it.

My 2 cents, or would that be 3.5 US cents???

For me as a starting Internet Marketer this price increase will be a barrier at the moment. There are many newbies that have great products but no money to spend at the start. That's maybe a problem BUT I personally think this increase is ok, because that way the products will be better in quality.

hmm but maybe only the price of the product will increase? hmm this is what the real market is about. If someone hast to pay more for his raw material he will increase the price of his product ... Only time will tell ...

Reptor

I remember when the SECRET SITE was selling for $39...1997-98.

Like Heylia said on the TV show Weeds...

Everyone has hard times but as my momma used to say...Tuff Shiii....

I couldnt tell because i never had experience in selling at WSO. is it worth for you guys?

I'm fine with the price increase. It should help. But Allen please limit the amount of WSO's one person can post on the first page. I've seen at least one Warrior have as many as five or six WSO's a time running on page one, and with constant bumps every day. That pushes everyone's else down the list that much faster. It would help level out the playing field a bit.

George

Nowadays $20 is a meal at McDonalds. $40 is a meal at a middle quality restaraunt.

Neither are lacking for customers.

Shewt, ain't no need to be guessin why he raised the price! It's purty obvious tain't it? ALLEN SAYS IS BROKE! You done heared it first right here!

Have you ever seen a picture of Allen Says? That there poor feller LOOkS hungry. Heck, he ain't even gots enough nutrition in his poor body to keep his hair from growin back inside his head!

Heck, I am a thankin that he should jump that there WSO price up to $100. I fer one would be a willin to pay it beens I done struck oil here in Stumpwoody!

Allen, I just want to be tellin you somethin from the bottom a my peapicken heart...

You have an open invite to come on down to Stumpwoody and set yoreself right up to ole Thad's supper table! There's plenty a vittles to be a goin around but if you DO happen to see somethin layin beside the road, feel free to bring it with you and add it to the feast!

The only downside is that if I had 6 FREE wsos that would cost me a whopping $240

Woah boy. $40 or not, someone please remind me to post a controversial new thread the next time I post a new wso and have a link in my sig

6 pages? Nice!

Wish I had an active WSO lol

Maddi

I saw this coming for a long time... I guarantee you won't see as many "new" WSO's posted now.

In my opinion this is a very smart move. The low price allows so many people to abuse the system without "blinking".

Cheers to that Allen!

Dennis

Overall I like this change. Something really needed to be done, and this is a step in the right direction.

Personally, I think we will see higher priced WSOs. I don't think we are going to see less offers in the WSO section. Hopefully this will increase the quality of the products offered in the WSO section.

The cost to advertise a WSO will ultimately be passed onto the buyers as sellers adjust their prices.

Since we all know who is the subject of these WSOs perhaps we should also consider the contribution that person makes to the forum. And since it's generally done behind the curtain perhaps a little latitude is also in order. Just my personal opinion...

~Bill

I don't know if this is going to help deter people from making junk WSO's or not. Personally I don't think so because the average joe who makes a junk WSO probably didn't waste his time (however little he put into it) expecting to make only 20 dollars profit.

However the people complaining about the price hike being too steep or detering "newbies" need to consider a few things. First of all if you are a newbie DON'T release a WSO. This is a BUSINESS forum and a newbie marketer shouldn't be teaching business in the first place. It is this kind of mindset "teaching marketing to make money from marketing" which is the reason most WSO's are junk. Don't teach marketing UNTIL you KNOW marketing inside and out. Don't waste my time. Don't waste my money. Don't waste your reputation.

From this flows my second point. If you've been successful in business and marketing then STOP complaining about a 20 dollar increase in cost. The people complaining about the price hike make me wonder if they truly make any money outside selling WSO's or not, because if they were and they were successful at it (which they should be to be teaching others how to do it) 40 bucks should be pocket change. If your WSO crashes and burns for WHATEVER reason and ends up not even making a single sale is the 40 bucks you lost really going to make you go hungry this month?

If it does then please don't come on here trying to teach others how to make money online, because you obviously don't have any yourself if you cant even risk 40 bucks of your own.

On a semi-related note I expect the under 15 dollar WSO's to be affected by this most. We're probably going to see a reduction of junk in this price range. By and large WSO's in this price range, from experience, are trash meant to make a few pennies and trick you on to peoples lists.

I think this will greatly reduce the number of crappy WSOs put out on here, and it'll definitely make the wanna-be scammers/rip-off artists think twice about running one. Hopefully this will also reduce the frequency of new/bumped WSOs popping up (I suspect this will do the trick nicely, at least for a while), as especially during the mornings and afternoons it seems like your WSO can barely stay on the first page for 4-6 hours!

Right... let's give them a better chance than anyone else at making some coin.

Then - when they go out to the real world and spend a few hundred bucks on promotion, etc, THEN they will lose their butts.

Yeah - that's fair.

Learn to market better. Publish or perish, as they say in the academic world. This is the new reality here, folks. We all need to stop the b*tching and adapt. That includes me. I kind of had a knee-jerk reaction too, when I first heard earlier today. It's human nature. The cost of doing business just went up. OK, so be it. Now it's on all of us to adjust to the new reality and get on with getting on. One positive to take from this, if you were inclined to think it was the sky falling: you'll learn to become better at developing repeat customers. Or you won't and this will probably hurt a lot more. Up to you.

John

Tracking WSO activity right now isn't likely to be an accurate indicator of anything. The two threads going on the subject are causing a lot of extra attention to be paid to that section. People who haven't been there in a while want to see if anything has changed, and a lot of bumps are probably "artificial".

Wait a few days for the two main threads on this topic to die down, then re-measure. My guess is you will get a better idea if anything has really changed.

All the best,
Michael

i would suggest posting a wso cost $40
bumping thread = $20

So, Is this the fastest moving thread ever? Cause ... dang. The Post count and View count are going nuts and its only been alive a few hours. Ack! can't.... keep....up

I'm all for it if it reduces the crap.

If we're just going to get goldplated crap, then, not so much.

When I went to bump my own wso thread like I do every day I was surprised to see that the fee had been increased to $40. Then I bumped it anyways and will continue doing so every day like I have been. I'm selling a service that I'm using as a loss leader anyways so what do I care. Last month we brought in nearly $20k from our wso. So whether I'm paying $600 or $1200 for the bumps every month doesn't concern me in the slightest. What matters to me is the overall income generated at the end of the month.

Steven...lol
Delete your quote of my post.I have deleted my original post...
I was just messing with you!

Have a Great Day!
Michael

Honestly, I completely understand why they did it. The level of crap that was being posted in the WSO on a daily basis had gotten to a point that was just getting uncontrollable.

With the increase in price people will think twice before making their posts and thus decrease the spam.

However, on a personal level this affected me negatively due to the fact that I was just about to launch a WSO that I have been working on. However, as a broke college kid who has yet to buy textbooks (very expensive) I will not be able to afford the extra $20 :[

I love the idea, but also it has kind of screwed me over and put me in a position that may result in alot of wasted time.

Gregg

For good WSOs run by good marketers, the price hike won't matter.

For the others, it's a chance to change and learn.

Some thoughts:

* If your WSO has 'quality' issues, fix them. Do whatever it takes.

* If your problem is making more sales, market your effort better.
Look at this as a mini-business building effort rather than a quick
cash puller. Negotiate JVs with people - to fund your cost of
running the WSO, spreading word (both on forum and off, within the
rules), and driving more eyeballs to your offer.

The good news.

It only costs $40 or $80 (or even $200) to test in this sandbox.

'Out there' it could run to several hundred (if not THOUSANDS) of
dollars to even get such tests running - and then, you may find
out you have a dud!

Which would you prefer? Risking $40 (or $100) - or many times
more?

I just convinced myself - and bumped my WSO

All success
Dr.Mani

May be this is the way to have a higher entry barrier for the WSOs!

those who suffer = article writers..., low priced service provider. it takes a lot more works to cover up the cost.

but, basically, a person enters the WSO section with "i want to buy something good for my business' mindset.

nobody leaves the WSO section without buying anything - or maybe 75% will purchase some great offer. (Allen may have the facts )

The new price is still a bargain.. but i hope bumping thread would cost lower. I'm talking about those who were just starting out/planning for a WSO...

It's been $20 for what, 5 years? Cmon guys, stop complaining. He's gotta increase his bottom line and according to my last WSO, the WSO area gets more traffic than all the other forums. I'm talking about 1300 views at noon on a specific day of the week. How much would that cost you in PPC to a MMO keyword?

Warrior WSO forum may have just lost my business... This is going to bring up the cost of products on this as at $20.00 it's hard for some threads to make any money.

I think of it as a slap in the face to us that have faithfully paid $20.00 on a daily basis making them 400-600 a month. Most businesses would VALUE customers like this but doubling the price is just a greedy slap in the face to those of us that should be treated as VIP's..

Just my thoughts..

Honestly, to every single person that has complained.
The forum has: "Members: 225,722"
First,try finding other online forums that have this many members you can advertise to for a measly $40.
Second, if another $20 in business expenses is going to break your bank and make it unprofitable for you to do business, you are in the wrong business.
Third and most important, this is Allen's forum and he can charge whatever fees he wishes.That's his choice, just as it is your choice to pay them or not.

Going by the response that every WSO gets, i think the price is justified, afterall everything of daily use is costing more and more every day, plus if the WSO is worth the price it anyways can get back the cost in about half an hour, will also help in keeping the bad apples out of it.

Higher prices will weed out poor copy writers, not poor offers. It's $40 now to post, that's all...

The WSO section should be primarily used to build a buyer list (and/or prospect list) and test offers / prelaunch, not to solely run a business off of as many currently do.

The people who are bothered by this need to spend some time away from the Warrior Forum. Many $7 offers here can easily be sold for $197 outside with a few touch ups and a presell email series. This place isn't the all end, not by a long shot. Great resource and certainly networking opportunities (and was a life saver for me in the beginning,) but if this is getting under your skin you should consider a long Warrior vacation and get out of tunnel vision.

RJHere said:
"Your points are valid.. He owns it and can do what he wants. ........... That doesn't mean it's a "good choice".. ......."

And just because some don't like it or think it isn't a "good choice" doesn't mean that it isn't.

I am over it. At 40 bucks is the wso section a good bet? Yes. Will I go on using it? Yes.

Hey price hike whiners...if you can't turn a profit at $40 a bump what makes you think lowering the price back down to $20 is going to help you in any way? If the extra $20 you now have to pay for a bump blows up your marketing system then you were dead in the water already and Allen just put you out of your misery. You were destined to fail anyways.

So now take a breath and redesign your selling model and come back strong with something that is going to work at the $40 a bump price point.

Whining about the price hike only proves to Warriors that your system was weak and sickly. You knew it, Allen knew it, and now so do the rest of us.

I am trying to follow this thread although it's getting a bit too long... to be honest.

Anyway, I figured there must be a lot of people clicking now to go to see the "new" WSO section & got inspiration from Dr Mani's post above, so just went and bumped my WSO. In five minutes (or less) I got a sale @ $28. Cross fingers for another one and I will be OK = $16 profit on this bump.

Side note for those complianing about the "expenses" of bumping to make 40 sales. If you don't make over 50 sales without a bump... then there must be an issue with the quality of your product or the quality of your presence here.

Wow, we're on Page 9 now. Amazing.

Wanna know what's even more amazing? It's that I don't recall a thread even half this size when Allen increased (doubled?) the page length of the WSO forum so that your WSO would stay on page 1 much longer.

I also don't recall a thread anywhere near this size (nor a post) saying, "Wow Allen, that is going to cut a huge chunk out of your profits. But you did it anyway. Thanks, man!"

Anybody remember when that change was made? Only a handful of people, I bet.

Oh but this price increase....this will probably be burned into most people's brains forever. Funny, huh?

Well $40 may not seem like a lot, but according to WSO PRO the average sale price is $17. So keeping that in mind any paypal fee's your looking at three sales just to break even.

Personally, I think its a move in the wrong direction that can ultimately end up backfiring and result in less revenue for the site (due to less bumps and listings).

I wish I would have been warned. That being said I know if I create a quality WSO it has a better chance of selling here than just on my own site. $40 is double the price, but it's hard to complain when I talk with people here everyday that make a good 2k - 4k in a month when they release a WSO.

That and you can get a good idea of how well the product will do out of the safety of The Warrior Forum.

I think people need to start addressing what a "bad WSO" actually is. Low price =/= low quality. For example, there is a WSO costing $17 which is extremely valuable and can make people money the first day they implement it. There is also a $47 WSO which is complete and utter crap and only rehashes old information (get a website, do article marketing, build a list etc). Which of these is bad quality? I highly doubt the price increase will affect the bad quality WSO owner in this example.

Hell, even the other WF has more barriers to entry than here (people get abused for selling things with low post counts, low iTrader scores and often their post is deleted etc). Here you can sign up and have your 1st post as a WSO.

I am glad to see that the price was raised. I may be wrong, but I think that you will get more bang for your buck with a higher price. It means that less of the "challenged" WSOs will be bumped again and again.

I don't have that much to input since I am new to this Forum.

Yesterday, I was trying to post a Free offer on the forum but got notified that I needed to pay $40 to post a free offer. That sounds a bit expensive for a free offer.

Any thoughts?

My 2 cents.

It's Allen's F'N HOUSE!

Is $40.00 all of a sudden not a total bargain for what you get in return?

Still think that was a big price increase. 100% is unheard of.. I haven't been a member too long so I don't know why it was necessary so I can't really comment on this but it's going to be a big stretch for a lot of us. Hope Allen's decision was for the better for the most of us...

10 Pages? WOW

Some great replies by great marketers and some of my favorite warriors. Too many good ones to name or mention here.

Like Paul Myers said, its just repeating itself now LOL. But it sure will be an eye opener for newbies in more ways than we can think.

Some went so far to calculate that, if they wanted to compensate this price change by slightly increasing their product pricing, on average, it was only costing less than a dollar. It will be different for everyone of course. Most, if they have a back end, a sales process/funnel won't be bothered the slightest and it won't make any difference paying double.

At first I thought it was a bad move from a newbie's point of view, but if they aren't confident enough the wso will make back that $40, may be the product isn't worth launching anyway.

If they are confident but simply can't afford the $40, (from developing countries or simply going through hard times) then there are ways around getting that first $40. If you ain't resourceful, you better sharpen your entrepreneurial skills first before launching a product in the market. Take it as a challenge, and cough up the money somehow. $40 isn't a big amount to come up with, you just gotta be creative and resourceful in some cases, a little patient.

Some great marketing lessons in this thread too. Take it as a traffic source just like any other, in fact respect this traffic source more than any other.

This is very targeted traffic, at a price anyone can afford. Do the math by the number of clicks you get after the initial $40 and develop your cost per click. I doubt there will be any paid traffic source at that price.

If you still think the price change will seriously affect your business, I won't bash you but you gotta enhance your marketing/business model.

Don't wish it was easier, wish you were better.

Maddi

Personally, I don't think it will weed out the rubbish; it will weed out the poor converters and that's an entirely different thing.

However, as for the price increase, supply and demand will ultimately fix the price at the right level.

Will

Being a marketing beginner (not an online business beginner) one thing the price increase does do is that it makes me reconsider the timing of becoming a War Room member, as in perhaps later instead of sooner.

The rest is speculation, the price increase might perform as expected, or it might stifle non-marketer and newbie creativity.

This is a funny thread.

The WSO section ALWAYS had issues. I remember when it didn't exist and allen was "thinking" of adding it. Those on the ball about these things had an advance guess as to the issues that would eventually come up.

They did and a lot more. Then allen started charging. Didn't stop any of it, slowed it down in the beginning until people adjusted to it and discovered the money triggers.
Once that happened, it really doesn't matter what Allen charges. $40, $150, $300 etc.. Those that know how to trigger the money will gladly pay any fee Allen can come up with. AND do it without bitching, complaining and probably not make a peep about it.

Now on the other side of things, which I saw along time ago and Allen specifically states in the WSO rules. This is NOT meant as a FULL TIME market place for your products / services. Those that live here on the forum, can't or won't go out into the market place, will live or die by the forum.

WSO was not meant to be ONLY place you market too. It was and is, in my opinion, a testing ground to see what tweaking needs done before a soft or hard launch. If you can sell here and make money then you will make 10x's the amount out in the REAL market.

Instead a lot, most?, treat the WSO like a lamb to the slaughter. Why go else where when you have a full time on slaught of NEWBE's looking to make money to pay bills etc...

Those that have not developed their skills, which a lot don't bother too, can't afford to pay the fees and when things change which they do daily can't figure out how to find the money triggers. Which in my opinion, they should not be doing WSO's anyway because of the lack of knowledge and experience. But that goes back to what I was saying about not living here on the forum and actually going out there in the market place and test, track, fail, succeed make some money. Change things in your product and test...

I know how hard it is to be a moderator here on WF. I was one for a while.
A lot of the WSO's that get complaints that should not be allowed, as many mention too often, in my view all submitted WSO's should be reviewed before allowed to go live. I am NOT talking about the product but the sales letter, the offer.

I am out of the loop so if this is being done, awesome. If there isn't a way to check if a offer is crap without actually looking at the product a LOT of WSO's will NEVER get posted cause mod's ain't going to manually go through each product. Not happening.

I know Allen is making quite a bit of cash from the fee's. If that is his goal then great, full sail ahead.

If the WSO section is suppose to subsidise and be full time income sources for people then great. FULL Steam Ahead. From my memory though, this was not the intention.

I know I have not been active on the forum a lot over last year or so. Went and got life outside the forum, sorry bout that. I am sure my input isn't that considerable since many "FULL TIMERS" have much more pull than I do. BUT... If there is a vote or discussion on this. My vote is to CLOSE the WSO section all together of at least give it a break for a month so people can see what it is like to not have it. Force the people that "can't" and make them go out and actually start developing their skills instead of living off the WF as if it is some kind of government assistance program.

That's my 2 cents on this stupid debate, arguement, complaint fest whatever it is. OOOOOoooooo WSO price went up, boohooo hooo the world is coming to an end, oh my god NOOOOO!

LOL

Hate on me all you want. But come on, if you really can't live without the WSO section, can't pay your bills because of it, my solution here is to close the damn thing down because that is NEVER what is was meant for in the first place.


- T

Here is my 2 cents. I understand the amount of work that is involved in running a busy site like this. I also understand that we all want to make a living and that includes the owner of this site. I do not begrudge this in anyway whatsoever.
There is no doubting the value to this site. I have learnt so much from this forum and much of that for free.
On the other hand this new price increase will make a difference to me. I am really just getting myself established after two years of marketing. When your in the postion of being established and trusted already. I think that an extra $20 will not make that much difference.
However when your in my position then it will make a difference. I still have to build that trust and show everyone that I an offer value. I have managed this with my own small list, but not here yet.
So I suppose it is just the timing that is wrong for me.
Also it will not get rid of the crap that is sold on here sometimes. That crap will just get more exspensive. Most of us know who gives out the value on here, and they will not suffer. It will only be painful for those that are genuine but unknown.
I may be wrong about this, but I thought the Warrior forum was a place designed to introduce the newbie to the online world of marketing. A place where as a community we all help each other. Of course the newbie can still access all the free information, but the doubling of the wso price will make that transaction from unknown to established marketer a little harder for some.

At last! 95% of the WSO i bought were completely crap and rehashed. Allen must have noticed that. What a great move. Hopefully rehashed/sounds good but never feasible WSO will be weed out to 50%!

It's definitely a great news to WSO buyers & those who post sell real quality WSO like sean donahoe etc.

My first thought as a potential first time WSO lister was "Damn, This sucks!".

My next thought was, "Is this really so bad?".

Then I thought about how I deal with my clients in the outside world. I tell them to sign up for paid forums, paid groups, and even research sites which allow them to post content. It allows them to put their content right in front of people who are their prime contacts for sales and real leads. Most of their competitors won't do it.

$40 to put an ad in front of thousands of Warriors which you can then continue to promote by sharing quality content in your posts is one of the biggest bargains in advertising you will ever find.

The problem many people will have with this change is because they do not want to take time to hunt down relevant posts, give smart replies, and help people see the value in buying their WSO.

I'm not sure it will weed out the hot shooting WSO runners, but it may slow down the wild bumps which happen without a second thought on products with questionable value. Even if it slows down the bumps it will have been successful.

(Of course, if you are providing quality posts and getting your message in front of people, you probably did not need all those bumps anyway.)

[DELETED]

Reality check for those who said they wanted a warning:

How's 2 1/2 years notice grab ya?
The Warrior Forum - Tired Of The WSO Bitching...

Also, those of us who were around in 2008 heard ALL the same objections before when WSOs went from FREE to $20.

I'm really, really enjoying this thread.

I Just reading another post about what warriors should charge offline clients, not only this thread but many like all cry the same message from warriors- charge based on the value given

charge what the market will bear - charge dependent on the niche - charge based on the value of the keyword X x, charge based on those with big bucks because there are less headaches, every project is different so everyone should be priced as such ?, prices should be based on the value delivered.

and the list goes on and on, but come here and some people squabble over $40 bucks

the man in the mirror has a different hats it seems dependent on which way he wants to swing the cat, people are funny at times.

WOW... does anyone have stats about the longest thread in the quickest time?

Some interesting stats on here ... some people have never thanked anyone on this forum ever (not newbies) That boggled my mind. (so much to be thankful for on here.)

Allen has been thanked 5700 in less than 300 posts thats incredible what makes him so special you would think he owns the place. But in one post he says he did not mean to raise the prive on the other paid forums and no Thanks ... except me because I am a thankful and a Kiss A$$, and who better than the Admin.

I like the move I really hope it has an effect on numbers of WSO's and quality.

To the Mods

PS any mods reading this I did something really stupid .... I posted a Classified or warrior for hire (cant remeber which one) and just typed in junk to see what the price would be (was not going to put it through)... I forgot you only get that after the thread is approved. Please no malice was intended I just wanted to give useful information but was stupid ....

When you have part of your business relying on a site that isn't your own expect changes.

It's true of Hubpages, Squidoo, Blogger, etc.. and the Warrior Forum. We don't make the rules.

"I've never made a penny before running WSO's" WSO's and this is what you end up with a marketplace flooded where offers on page 1 don't last for more than a few hours because people are chasing that easy WSO money with the same tactics that are being used on Clickbank sales pages.

Big headline, lots of hype, that's the "make money online" niche to the majority of people out there. (right or wrong)

I can't complain, because like many marketers who have used the WSO forum to build a list and for customer acquisition it was pretty similar to using PPC/PPV in the first place.

I think it's going to make things a lot harder to get an offer up and running that way. $40 to me, is not a small amount of money.

First off this is my first post but i have been around here for a long long time, just never got round to posting!

Its an obvious move to try and cut back on all of the repetitive and useless crap that gets sold. Don't get me wrong, there is some fantastic WSO out there, giving you great ideas and tips on how to succeed in the Internet Marketing World.

Instead of just increasing the price by 100% maybe the forum should look at offering a more in depth WSO Section. Having different categories and price ranges depending on your product type, WSO Experience and product quality. This would easily put a halt to members who just sign up, make a few posts become a war room member and then submit there WSO so they can make some quick cash!

Just my thoughts though guys...

I always worry threads like this will make Allen say, "I'm done - WSO section gone. Thank you for playing. Tired of the bitching."

I'd really hate that and no, my business doesn't rely on WSOs - but it's damn nice to have access to at such a small ad price (I used to deal with offline ads and they'd kill your budget - most wouldn't be able to afford it and good luck getting it read or shown to such a targeted audience as this).

I think I'll let Allen run his business and I'll mind mine. Whatever he decides works for me - he's obviously doing something right with such a successful forum.
tiff

Not since 8am... so, you're the first today

I'll be honest - when I first saw about the price hike this morning I initially felt it was a bad thing - primarily because I'm looking to run a couple in the not too distant future.

But I don't run my business on feelings, I run it based on information wherever possible so have done some number crunching.

Although I'm not posting all the figures here, looking at the top 5 pages even the poorest performing offer has the chance to break even, even at just the front end...

Purely looking at the number of views the offers got, only 3% of those received less than 100 views (including those just posted where the view count is 0).

That could be for many reasons, but if the headline copy isn't grabbing people then the sales letter may not grab them either. BUT even those had a chance at breaking even assuming a modest 2% conversion on a $19.95 product, or a 6% conversion @ $7.00 etc. (Assuming no costs were involved for bumping of course).

The majority of posts got more than 100 views (34% received 0-1000 views) so the chance of profitability on the front end of those appears to be quite strong.

Clearly I don't hold all the facts here, as it's impossible to know which threads have been bumped (although with some it's very obvious), and how many times they may have been bumped.

To me, the numbers appear to show that

• newer marketers will still have a good shot at profitability even if they just use the front end, and
• unfortunately - I don't think it will do anything to cut down on the many poorer quality hit-and-run products, which is a shame.

Quite a few people here have already suggested a reputation/feedback scheme - I agree that it could be much more powerful than simply trying to price scammers out of the market.

Sure - it could also be prone to abuse, but it stands a better chance of achieving the aim of reducing scammy WSO's than just a pricing hike in my opinion.

Martin

There was another thread where Allen said he was going to try a couple of things to help with getting rid of scammers (maybe it was in the war room). Anyway, he is NOT doing it for money that is for sure. I'm sure he has a few other ideas on what to do to keep the integrity of the WF. If price doesn't work something else will.

I didn't read through this whole thread... It's way too long.. But, I did read every post by Allen.

Here's my thought:

If Allen had said prior there would be a change, a ton of wso's would have been bumped within a couple hours.. Would those bumps even help? Probably not, they would have just made the front page saturated with 50 bumped offers in the last 5 minutes... Would that help your wso, to sink to the bottom of the page.

It was worth $20 whenever could post for $20, now it's $40, it's worth $40, because it means less bumps and posts... no? Doesn't it make it more valuable, without the huge saturation factor, aka other threads.

Steven, Your wife should join the WF, and read that... You out kissing tattooed ladies LOL.

Allen, Good decision. I hope this helps remove the crap... Maybe there should be some hired WSO mods, who actually look at the products (I know, a lot of work), but it would cut down on the PLR crap in there... Actually, probably a bad idea, way too much work.. but still.

Caleb

I just posted an ad on Warriors For Hire. At first I thought it was just for that section. Well, I don't think the new $40 price will deter those rehashed and hyped up WSOs. They are the ones that make a lot of money!

Problem with price increase is the ones promising a 'magic bullet' can sell 100+ easy. Twice as many non-members are on this board as members, (even if the 'who is here' list lists people twice as long as they are here-> that is still 500+ members and 1,000+ non-members at any given time). With 15 million+ people in the US alone out of work for 6 months+, I am willing to bet most of the non-members are so because this forum advocates work instead of an elusive 'magic bullet'.

Those non-members are still able to buy WSOs (Yes, I tried not logged in and it goes through).

Charge $100, (which is closer but still not what that board is worth, assuming one has decent copywriting skills), and the 'magic bullet' sellers will still find it very profitable to run 'magic bullet' WSOs. People WANT to believe.

Plus the difficulty of new people, (who may not quite 'get' list making/upsells/OTOs/etc), using that board to test offers/copywriting/pricepoints is now a higher cost... BUT I still maintain, at $40, it is still MUCH cheaper than most ways of testing those things.

A war room membership at $37 is almost a joke. That resource is worth hundreds if not thousands. Allen is VERY generous to have that resource available at such a ridiculously low price-point. $40 for a WSO is also low, in my opinion. 10 pages of opinion and complaints is almost also a joke. I do not know when the forum became a democracy... OR when some people thought so...

When a WR membership costs half of what it is worth (instead of a tenth or less) and WSOs cost is in relation to the outside world, THEN we'll hear some interesting 'opinions'. Lol

*Mine included, I guess, huh?*


Mark

HA!

A forum of marketers scared off by a measly $20 price bump?

Shameful!

Make an extra WHOPPING 3 sales of your $7 product to cover it, and you'll even have a buck left for a soft serve cone at McDonalds.

Seriously...

If you're still worried, have a look inside that War Room membership you paid for.

The copywriting info in there is strong enough to send conversions into the stratosphere.

I have worked with customers who spend around $50K per MONTH on adwords. They KNOW their numbers, and they make around $75K to $100K per month before expenses.

So, $40 for a market test to see how your copy and product does.... PLEASE!

Make it $140, and it would STILL be MEGA cheap!

As MANY others have said in this thread.... If you knew what you were doing, it would not matter in the least what the pricing is on the WSO section.

If you can't make the $40 back within an hour of posting your WSO, you need to go back to marketing school first.

I do NOT mean to offend anyone!

I think its a question of you pay your money and you take your choice. There is no choice to reach the Warriors - it should encourage more Joint Ventures, and List Building.
Personally the ROI of WSO's goes down somewhat each time you run a new one, as your list will buy without you posting a WSO. So I guess you need to consider when to run a WSO.

You can still make your money, but very likely you will bump a thread less, much less. Some $20 bumps (when the offer has almost run its course still bring in 3 or 4 sales) ... but now you need to target your timing for max audience, and make sure you are getting people to opt-in to build your list.

An email or announcement would have been good, but might have caused an unwelcome spike.

I will be launching something new next week - lets see how that goes :-)

Chris

Caleb said:... and proceeded to make several suggestions which had already been made more than once through the course of the thread. I think we've reached the point at which there's going to be nothing new said on the subject.

Time to close it up.


Paul