warning- don't use Scripts for Aweber stuff - this also applies to warriorplus

35 replies
Warriors - quite a emergency business issue and here's what happened and how to easily prevent it so it doesn't happen to you.

my aweber account was closed

I called and got it reopened... but I have to stop ANY form of script populated the aweber form...

AND THAT includes warriorplus that i use..

She reopened my account (good lord I make THOUSANDS a week with my lists, my customers so a huge sigh of relief)

The work around...

- for getting product updates/webinar announcements etc. - have them after purchase - opt in the normal way with an aweber form...

Just wanted to let fellow warriors know because this is a lifeblood of our business - ARs -

Shoot - otherwise I was already thinking - a new product - If I was Forced to start all over again!
#applies #aweber #scripts #stuff #warning #warriorplus
  • Profile picture of the author oneplusone
    Thanks for the heads up.

    A lot of warriors on here are using scripts so they better pay attention to this.

    It also is a reminder to back up your lists regularly, if anything does go wrong you can then take your lists to another service.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mohammad Afaq
      I just send my buyers to a squeeze page where they have to enter an account before they can receive the product or login information.
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      • Profile picture of the author Istvan Horvath
        Originally Posted by Mohammad Afaq View Post

        I just send my buyers to a squeeze page where they have to enter an account before they can receive the product or login information.
        If you do that with paypal as payment processor... be careful: they could close/suspend your account for that. Just saying.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mohammad Afaq
          Originally Posted by Istvan Horvath View Post

          If you do that with paypal as payment processor... be careful: they could close/suspend your account for that. Just saying.
          WOW, I didn't know that.

          I guess I'll have to start making the optin optional.
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          • Profile picture of the author Caleb Spilchen
            Originally Posted by Mohammad Afaq View Post

            WOW, I didn't know that.

            I guess I'll have to start making the optin optional.
            Afaq,

            What about having the opt in for the bonuses..

            Example


            CLICK HERE TO DOWNLOAD....

            --

            Want To Get A Free 10 Minute Consult With Me?

            Sign Up Here:

            OPT IN FORM

            --
            That's what I am planning
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            Caleb Spilchen

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    • Profile picture of the author mywebwork
      Originally Posted by oneplusone View Post

      It also is a reminder to back up your lists regularly, if anything does go wrong you can then take your lists to another service.
      True - but keep in mind you'll likely need to have them opt-in again.

      Thanks for the heads-up Maria. I notice that they still allow e-mail parsers so I assume that integration with e-junkie and PayPal is still OK?

      Bill
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      • Profile picture of the author oneplusone
        Originally Posted by mywebwork View Post

        True - but keep in mind you'll likely need to have them opt-in again.

        Thanks for the heads-up Maria. I notice that they still allow e-mail parsers so I assume that integration with e-junkie and PayPal is still OK?

        Bill
        You are right, with some services they do want them to opt in again, but not all of them.

        I've moved lists around different services in the past, and not once have I had to get subscribers to opt in a second time.

        What they want to see is concrete evidence they are genuine subscribers, and not just some random list as I'm sure they all get spammers trying it on.
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      • Profile picture of the author Maria Gudelis
        Originally Posted by mywebwork View Post

        True - but keep in mind you'll likely need to have them opt-in again.

        Thanks for the heads-up Maria. I notice that they still allow e-mail parsers so I assume that integration with e-junkie and PayPal is still OK?

        Bill
        Bill that is right - as long as it is an email parser or on their integration page

        I went to aweber and entered 'integration' on the bottom right of their page and also talked to them

        Now one cool thing - I use Wishlist for a lot of my downloads (a membership site plugin for wordpress) and wishlist is also an ok way to integrate - so the minute my buyer registers for my member site to get access to the downloads - that automatically populates aweber and all ok with that - so not as much work as I thought to fix my WSO's!
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  • Thanks Maria,

    I hadn't used Warrior Plus yet for a WSO, but was about to do it, so thanks for the heads up in that regard.

    Chad
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  • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
    It's a good reminder. And now is probably a good time to gently remind folks to review the TOS for Aweber:

    Service Agreement - AWeber

    ... and for any other accounts you have (payment processors, web hosts, etc).

    Cheers,
    Becky
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  • Profile picture of the author dremora
    I don't do forced opt-ins or use scritps that get around the opt-ins.
    I think the WSO Plus admins need to remove that script asap, since it will hurt marketers and get them in trouble with aweber.

    I use separate emails for marketing lists and paypal, so it was extremely annoying to get my paypal email inbox flooed with the emails from some WSO's I purchased. I never opted in yet I was getting emails! Aweber is right to take action against a procedure bypassing the opt-in, since they can get spam complaints and get in legal trouble.


    Guys, use optional opt-ins, it works. I put a sidebar opt-in form on my experimental site, and I found that the opt-in rates skyrocketed after switching from forced opt-in to optional opt-in.

    Of course test for yourself first but my own test proves optional opt-in works wonders when you provide readily available and useful free content and put the opt-in form on the sidebar. People are changing and more and more prospects get annoyed with the 'mystery' giveaways hidden behind forced opt-in squeeze pages.
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    • Profile picture of the author Maria Gudelis
      Originally Posted by dremora View Post

      I don't do forced opt-ins or use scritps that get around the opt-ins.
      I think the WSO Plus admins need to remove that script asap, since it will hurt marketers and get them in trouble with aweber.

      I use separate emails for marketing lists and paypal, so it was extremely annoying to get my paypal email inbox flooed with the emails from some WSO's I purchased. I never opted in yet I was getting emails! Aweber is right to take action against a procedure bypassing the opt-in, since they can get spam complaints and get in legal trouble.


      Guys, use optional opt-ins, it works. I put a sidebar opt-in form on my experimental site, and I found that the opt-in rates skyrocketed after switching from forced opt-in to optional opt-in.

      Of course test for yourself first but my own test proves optional opt-in works wonders when you provide readily available and useful free content and put the opt-in form on the sidebar. People are changing and more and more prospects get annoyed with the 'mystery' giveaways hidden behind forced opt-in squeeze pages.
      Thanks for the info on sidebar opt-in!
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    • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
      Originally Posted by dremora View Post


      I use separate emails for marketing lists and paypal, so it was extremely annoying to get my paypal email inbox flooed with the emails from some WSO's I purchased. I never opted in yet I was getting emails! Aweber is right to take action against a procedure bypassing the opt-in, since they can get spam complaints and get in legal trouble.
      Here is an idea - go hit the unsubscribe button. Takes all of 5 seconds and your problem is solved.

      Sheesh people...
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  • Profile picture of the author Caleb Spilchen
    Maybe we should get a comment from MikeLantz?
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    Caleb Spilchen

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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
    Well, last time I checked, when someone buys something off of you, you have entered a business agreement, which gives that person permission to contact you.

    I'm not sure why Aweber would get their panties in a wad about this...

    Rapid Action Profits, 7 Dollar script (I believe), Nanacast, Infusionsoft, and tons others have the option of automatically adding people to your list.

    Somehow I get the feeling that this is soon going to be something new for marketers to complain about...(meaning Auto opt-in after purchase)

    Regardless, thanks for the warning. I still use Aweber, but I also have Office Auto Pilot, which doesn't have any sort of nutty restrictions like that.

    Rob
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    • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
      Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

      I'm not sure why Aweber would get their panties in a wad about this...
      It's all about AWeber being able to provide a fully traceable
      subscription path for each customer.

      With auto-submission scripts, they operate from a particular
      domain (e.g. the sellers, the shopping cart, etc) and that same
      IP address gets pushed on the record for each subscriber.

      What AWeber want is for the individual subscriber IP address
      to be present on their subscription record so that they can
      prove the exact time and place of the subscription.

      Auto-submission scripts don't allow them to do this and that's
      why these scripts are against their Terms of Service.

      One of the reasons that AWeber have high deliverability is
      because they have very strict requirements (sometimes too
      strict!) - but this does ensure the reputation of their servers.

      Dedicated to your success,

      Shaun
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      • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
        Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

        (sometimes too
        strict!)
        Yup.

        The reasons you give make sense. But it's still too strict in my eyes. Looks like I'll be switching over to office auto pilot completely. My opens and click percentages with them are the same as with aweber, so it looks like my emails get delivered just fine. They don't have half the restrictions aweber has, so it looks like I'll be switching if they keep it up.

        Rob
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      • Profile picture of the author Maria Gudelis
        Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

        It's all about AWeber being able to provide a fully traceable
        subscription path for each customer.

        With auto-submission scripts, they operate from a particular
        domain (e.g. the sellers, the shopping cart, etc) and that same
        IP address gets pushed on the record for each subscriber.

        What AWeber want is for the individual subscriber IP address
        to be present on their subscription record so that they can
        prove the exact time and place of the subscription.

        Auto-submission scripts don't allow them to do this and that's
        why these scripts are against their Terms of Service.

        One of the reasons that AWeber have high deliverability is
        because they have very strict requirements (sometimes too
        strict!) - but this does ensure the reputation of their servers.

        Dedicated to your success,

        Shaun
        Yes - the communication with them was exactly like that Shaun! here is some of the text:

        When subscribers are submitted through a script, we cannot
        establish that audit trail. If an ISP comes to us and asks
        where that subscriber came from, because they have gotten a
        spam complaint or have reason to believe that the messages
        sent to the subscriber are spam, we don't have that audit
        information that we need to clearly demonstrate where and
        how exactly that lead came to be subscribed.
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        • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
          I'm no programming dude, but you know, there HAS to be some way to send that data on to Aweber.

          If a script, like RAP or WarriorPlus capture a sale, they also capture the user's IP. With that being the case, the only real need then is to pass that along with the opt-in.

          Also, here is just some food for thought - what happens if the person signs up while running a proxy? Then their IP isn't real anyway.

          This means someone could, in theory, sign up under proxy, send a spam complaint, have it investigated and Aweber would be up a creek without a paddle, so to speak.

          What is stopping that from happening?


          Originally Posted by Maria Gudelis View Post

          Yes - the communication with them was exactly like that Shaun! here is some of the text:

          When subscribers are submitted through a script, we cannot
          establish that audit trail. If an ISP comes to us and asks
          where that subscriber came from, because they have gotten a
          spam complaint or have reason to believe that the messages
          sent to the subscriber are spam, we don't have that audit
          information that we need to clearly demonstrate where and
          how exactly that lead came to be subscribed.
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          • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
            Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

            I'm no programming dude, but you know, there HAS to be some way to send that data on to Aweber.

            If a script, like RAP or WarriorPlus capture a sale, they also capture the user's IP. With that being the case, the only real need then is to pass that along with the opt-in.

            What is stopping that from happening?
            The script and AWeber need to 'talk' to one another.

            That's where AWeber parsers come in.

            So, scripts like DLGuard, 1ShoppingCart, WishList Member,
            etc have all integrated their systems with AWeber so that
            the necessary data is pushed onto the subscriber record
            in AWeber.

            The parsers do that work and they've been co-jointly
            developed by AWeber and the script providers.

            I don't think that WarriorPlus has a parser with AWeber.

            Dedicated to your success,

            Shaun
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            • Profile picture of the author Istvan Horvath
              Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

              I don't think that WarriorPlus has a parser with AWeber.
              Neither has RAP... unfortunately. At least they are not listed among the parsers.
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            • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
              Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

              I don't think that WarriorPlus has a parser with AWeber.
              Not like it's a huge deal:

              If you are using a service that we don't already have an email parser for, and you think you need an email parser to use that service with AWeber, please contact our Solutions Team and we'll be happy to help you determine the best way to go forward.

              If it turns out you need a custom email parser, you can have your web designer set that up in your account, or we can create one for $149.
              I've always wondered why people don't just go to AWeber and pay the $149 to integrate their payment processors. I mean, how hard is that? Or you could just create instructions for the AWeber member to set up his own.

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      • Profile picture of the author Sid Hale
        Hi Shaun,

        Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

        It's all about AWeber being able to provide a fully traceable
        subscription path for each customer.

        With auto-submission scripts, they operate from a particular
        domain (e.g. the sellers, the shopping cart, etc) and that same
        IP address gets pushed on the record for each subscriber.
        Not all of them.

        What AWeber want is for the individual subscriber IP address
        to be present on their subscription record so that they can
        prove the exact time and place of the subscription.

        Auto-submission scripts don't allow them to do this and that's
        why these scripts are against their Terms of Service.
        Some auto-submission scripts DO (or at least one does), but only if they submit from the customer's browser, rather than from the server.
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        • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
          Originally Posted by Sid Hale View Post

          Hi Shaun,

          Not all of them.

          Some auto-submission scripts DO (or at least one does), but only if they submit from the customer's browser, rather than from the server.

          Hi Sid, does RAP submit the IP? I know someone above said it didn't...
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          • Profile picture of the author Sid Hale
            Hi Rob,

            Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

            Hi Sid, does RAP submit the IP? I know someone above said it didn't...
            Yes, it does.
            The auto opt-in happens from the customer's browser (i.e. from the download page) - not from the server.

            I had this problem (doing it the other way), ~ 2 years ago, and v2.0 of RAP corrected the issue.
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            • Profile picture of the author MikeLantz
              Originally Posted by Sid Hale View Post

              Hi Rob,



              Yes, it does.
              The auto opt-in happens from the customer's browser (i.e. from the download page) - not from the server.

              I had this problem (doing it the other way), ~ 2 years ago, and v2.0 of RAP corrected the issue.
              Yes, this is exactly how WSO Pro works as well. I knew and understood the issue from the beginning, and WSO Pro has always worked this way.

              Hopefully we can get to the bottom of where the actual problem was for Maria!

              Mike
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          • Profile picture of the author CMartin
            Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

            does RAP submit the IP? I know someone above said it didn't...
            RAP submits the Aweber form that is rendered in the user's browser... so Aweber get's the user IP.

            Carlos

            EDIT: Sid was faster to reply
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeLantz
        Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

        It's all about AWeber being able to provide a fully traceable
        subscription path for each customer.

        With auto-submission scripts, they operate from a particular
        domain (e.g. the sellers, the shopping cart, etc) and that same
        IP address gets pushed on the record for each subscriber.

        What AWeber want is for the individual subscriber IP address
        to be present on their subscription record so that they can
        prove the exact time and place of the subscription.

        Auto-submission scripts don't allow them to do this and that's
        why these scripts are against their Terms of Service.

        One of the reasons that AWeber have high deliverability is
        because they have very strict requirements (sometimes too
        strict!) - but this does ensure the reputation of their servers.

        Dedicated to your success,

        Shaun
        Want to jump in on this, sorry for being a little slow to do so...

        First, let me say that the 'autoresponder integration' feature of WSO Pro is completely optional. Just using WSO Pro will definitely not cause you any problems. I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea that WSO Pro is no longer safe to use. I assure you, it is.

        Second, I want to address what Shaun is talking about above. WSO Pro does provide a completely traceable path back to the person opting-in. The IP address and all information is exactly what aweber expects, and does not come from the WSO Pro server, but directly from the user and their browser.

        So, all of this makes me unsure if WSO Pro was really the problem here. Maria, did they directly tell you that?

        I will contact them and make sure everything is OK with what I am doing, and if you are using WSO Pro, feel free to turn off the autoresponder integration feature if it concerns you.

        I will try and keep you posted in this thread on what I find out, and will definitely let all WSO Pro users know if there is a change that affects them.

        Thanks for the heads up, though, Maria. Lets hope we can get all of this straightened out.

        Mike
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  • Profile picture of the author petelta
    Maria, thank you very much for this. I use the warriorplus script myself and I would not be very happy with my aweber account closed
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
    Awesome, thanks Sid.

    Then I wonder what Maria's problem is - using a script that doesn't submit IP data?
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    • Profile picture of the author Sid Hale
      Hey Rob,

      Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

      Awesome, thanks Sid.

      Then I wonder what Maria's problem is - using a script that doesn't submit IP data?
      Very few do. Aweber catches them only if they submit too many, too close together (i.e. all with the web server's IP address). If you don't have multiple sales, back-to-back, those scripts will still work fine, because Aweber tracks the frequency.

      Unfortunately, one good, responsive mailing could catch you up if you use one of the other scripts.
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    • Profile picture of the author CMartin
      Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

      Then I wonder what Maria's problem is - using a script that doesn't submit IP data?
      Just for clarification it's not the script that submits IP data - there's no IP field in the data that is submitted to Aweber.

      When subscriber data is submitted to Aweber, Aweber checks the IP of the client that is submitting the data and stores it:
      - if the data is submitted via the user's browser (client), Aweber stores the *user* IP;
      - if the form data is submitted via the web server (client), Aweber stores the *server* IP.

      It's with the latter that Aweber has problems, because it can't trace the user's IP.

      From Mike Lantz's posts in this thread, it seems he's doing it correctly, as the subscriber data is submitted via the browser.

      Carlos
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  • Profile picture of the author mywebwork
    Perhaps I'm missing something , but isn't the simplest solution for all of this just to setup a custom e-mail parser with AWeber?

    Just built a test one a few minutes ago and it was a lot easier than I thought it would be, especially as AWeber wants 149.00 to do it for you.

    Bill
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    • Profile picture of the author Sid Hale
      Hey Bill,

      Originally Posted by mywebwork View Post

      Perhaps I'm missing something , but isn't the simplest solution for all of this just to setup a custom e-mail parser with AWeber?

      Just built a test one a few minutes ago and it was a lot easier than I thought it would be, especially as AWeber wants 149.00 to do it for you.
      Building the parser isn't a big deal, but neither is capturing the data and submitting it without having to bother. Both have the same result.
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  • Profile picture of the author dejoliet31
    Maria,

    Thanks for the warning. This could have been a BIG problem for me on one of the projects I am developing. I'll have to redesign a portion of the delivery system.
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