This Law Would Bring An End To Internet Marketing!

74 replies
Ponder this. Surely you've seen ads for pharmaceutical companies in print magazines. There is a full page ad for the product and then, as required by the FDA, a page or two of disclosures and warning statements that read something like this:

In certain individuals this product has been shown to cause projectile vomiting, cramping, painful hemorrhoidal tissues, painful perineal oozing boils , dyspepsia, incontinence, nail fungus, colo-rectal inflammation, reverse peristalsis, indigestion, nausea, hallucinations, sinusitus, ingrown nasal hairs, cardiac arrythmia, hypertension, bronchial constriction, sensitivity to light, joint pain, flatulence, septicemia, loss of balance, delusions of grandeur...

You get the idea, and yes--I made some of that stuff up myself.

Now, what if a similar disclosure requirement were initiated for product vendors in the IM niche. In other words, what if they were required to reveal the true nature of their products in a disclosure statement that appeared at the bottom of their sales pages? Gads! Their disclosure statements might look like this...

Following the directions in this product could well get your accounts at ezinearticles, articlesbase, buzzle, helium, goarticles, articlesnatch, articlealley, articledashboard, ideamarketers, isnare, searchwarp,, articlecity, sooperarticles, articleclick, articlerich, articlecube, articlestars, submityourarticle, abcarticledirectory, articlecompilation, articlesfactory, articlepool, articleslash, upublish, acmearticles, articlenexus.com13, thewhir, articlecentral, articlesalley, fourpxarticles, articlebliss, articlecell, 365articles, Blogger, Weblogs, Inc, BlogCode: BlogCode, blo.gs, BlogLines, Digg, del.icio.us, Reddit: Reddit, StumbleUpon, Blinklist, Techcrunch, Furl, Spurl, Trailfire, Wetpaint, YouTube, Vimeo, Mixx, Feedburner, PinGoat, Ping-O-Matic, FeedShark, Clipmarks, Magnolia, Digg, Propeller, Socialogs, Indianpad, Technorati, Slashdot, Diigo, Wirefan, Bibsonomy, Blinklist, Blogmemes, Bluedot, Myjeeves, Backflip, CraigsList,, Netvouz, Folkd, Blinkbits, Plugim, Linkagogo, Mister-wong, Connotea, Thoof, Corank, Megite, Yample, Squidoo, Taggly, Tagza, Dzone, Dropjack, A1-webmarks, Buddymarks, Bookmarktracker, Fark, Connectedy, Mylinkvault, Tumblr, Searchles, Bringr, Searchallinone, Marktdf, Postonfire, MyOpera, My YaHoo, YaHoo Groups, Plime, and Boosch locked, frozen, or abolished.

Our sales page states that only 300 copies of this product will be sold. That's an outright lie. In fact, we expect to sell over 1,000 units in the first 24 hours after the launch and an additional 6,000 units within the following week. Only a dumb ass would believe that we will limit the sales to 300 units.

Some of our screen shots showing earnings have been doctored to reflect forward-looking earning projections that very few, if any, individuals purchasing this product might achieve.

All of the testimonials shown on our sales page come from JV partners who have vested interests in increasing the sales of the product. Most were written by our partners who have not only never tried the product, but who have never even seen the product in its entirety. And the earnings they claim to have made after they did receive the product are no more than their normal earnings they achieve during any similar period.

While our sales page says that only 17 units are left and you must order today, this is a digital product and unlimited units can be delivered within any time frame. If you come back in 30 days you will see the same "Only 17 units left" statement at the bottom of the page.

We cannot sell this product to customers in Texas, California, New York, Maine, Idaho, Wisconsin, Florida, Georgia, Oregon, Indiana, Montana, and Maryland (pending attorney general ruling) and an FTC litigation.

While we say that we offer exceptional 24/7 customer support, our support team consists of my child's 13 year old babysitter who will respond through re-Tweets from her Twitter account. (She has over 82,000 Twitter followers!)

We do not offer refunds as the refund rate for our last product launched exceeded 46%. We simply cannot make a fair ROI if we generate refunds for everyone who requests one. We hope you can appreciate our position.

NOTE ON OUT BONUSES: All of the "exclusive" bonuses offered with this product are actually part of a PLR package we picked up for only $15 and represent products the original developer was unable to make a profit with because the refund rates were excessive.

We do apologize for the 11 exit pop-ups we use to promote our up-sells but it does increase out bottom line by nearly 60%. And the $295 OTO we hit you with after your initial sale, well--we try our best to make you feel that the original product is dysfunctional without the OTO offered. After all, we have already got your money for the initial sale, so we believed you were not only gullible enough to get that product, but stupid enough to go for the overpriced OTO as well.

The good news is that if you opt in to our list from the pop-up on our sales page, it is unlikely you will be getting a ton of email marketing junk from us. You see the FTC requires auto-responder services to report accounts with excessive complaint and unsubscribe rates, and well--with a complaint rate approaching 18%, we got nailed on that one. Hope to be able to export our list to a less ethical service who will let us slip by in spite of our complain rates.

And yes, if you do install our secret software on your computer, it will execute a data acquisition subroutine that will collect information on you, your browsing habits, bookmarks and pass it back to us every time you get online.

Aside from these minor discrepancies between our sales page and our actual product--most of what we claim is pretty close to being truthful and honest.

If you have any problem with our sales copy, contact our copywriter to whom we paid $15,000 for the copy. We told him to put all of that bull **** in the copy, and in his agreement with us he gets a percentage of the total sales--and he'll say anything to make a buck.


Now, there is obviously no such pending law that would require Internet marketers to make such disclosure statements. But what if there was?

And--while we are all guilty of guru bashing because of their somewhat deceptive sales copy tactics, were we in their shoes would we do anything different?

If the opportunity to you arose to make a Faustian deal with the devil in which you could do what you do now and make $25,000 a year selling your stuff, or--make $1.5 million dollars by bending, stretching, and twisting the truth a bit, would you take it? Are you sure? I'd think about that for a while, and a while longer before you answer.

If you could make your real life exceed the life of your dreams, would you be willing to cross a line in the sand you have drawn which represented the ethical constructs by which you had previously lived?

Think about your spouse, your children, maybe an aging parent living on social security who can't afford the meds required to give them the quality-of-life factor they deserve in their later years. Are you still sure you wouldn't accept the above proposition?

"When it is a question of money, everybody is of the same religion." ~Voltaire
#bring #end #gurus #hype #internet #law #marketing #sales-pages
  • Profile picture of the author dipenb
    Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Kind of funny but happens all the time.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Mike, I've fought the temptation to take the easy, unethical road for most of my life. We all are tempted, right? I found a safe full of money left open and I locked it when I was a security guard. When a cashier gives me back too much money I return it. Blah blah blah ... that's who I am and how I'm comfortable living.

    The average life expectancy in the US is 75.6 years for a male. If I'm average, I've got 20 years left. The price of "selling out to the devil" would be much steeper than giving up my ethics. It would be giving up how I've tried to live the first 55 years of my life.

    I don't even have to think about it. No deal. I sleep well and I like that way. I don't mean to make myself sound like a saint here, I've made my share of mistakes in judgment along the way, as we all do. I'm just saying I've stuck to my guns as best I could and don't see any reason to change that as I enter the home stretch of this death race.

    Let me put it another way ... who I am is more important to me than how much I have.

    Of course, you could say it's easy to say that when I'm living well, but what if times got harder? I've been through plenty of hard times. They helped shape me. It's the hard times that reveal our character, not the easy times.
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    • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
      Mike,

      The people who use these tactics say they're earning a fortune but, if they're lying about everything else, maybe you should take their earnings claims with a pinch of salt.

      BTW, drug companies don't make full disclosures - they only publish the results of tests that are favourable.


      Martin
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      • Profile picture of the author tpw
        Originally Posted by Martin Luxton View Post

        BTW, drug companies don't make full disclosures - they only publish the results of tests that are favourable.

        I don't think this is accurate...

        I have heard disclaimers on TV that said that this product can cause: heart disease, kidney failure, and premature death under certain circumstances....

        The Premature Death always gets my attention!!!

        Every time I hear it, I ask myself if I would be willing to risk an outside chance of Premature Death to: cure my heartburn, get a good nights' sleep, or to make my penis longer...

        In no uncertain terms, I am willing to risk Premature Death for any perceived "health" benefits!!!
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    • Profile picture of the author Graham Maddison
      Dennis, I very much admire your honesty and integrity. In fact I like to think I am very much like you myself.

      When I was a mere child, I stole a face flannel from Woolworths, I was about 10 / 11 years old. That night I lay awake all night worrying about what I had done, waiting for a knock on the door, what if my parents found out. It worried me so much that the next day I took the flannel back and got caught doing so.

      That experience has stayed with me throughout my life and I have always since then been able to resist temptation...until now!

      Recent events in my life have led me to look at ways of raising funds in a way which I would never have dreamed of before. Some would call it immoral or even unethical.

      When your back is truly against the wall, your reasoning changes believe me.

      I know that the OP is aiming his thread at the common practises found within IM by many unscrupulous marketers and I believe whole heartedly that something should be done to clean the industry up. But....


      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      Mike, I've fought the temptation to take the easy, unethical road for most of my life. We all are tempted, right? I found a safe full of money left open and I locked it when I was a security guard. When a cashier gives me back too much money I return it. Blah blah blah ... that's who I am and how I'm comfortable living.

      The average expectancy in the US is 75.6 years for a male. If I'm average, I've got 20 years left. The price of "selling out to the devil" would be much steeper than giving up my ethics. It would be giving up how I've tried to live the first 55 years of my life.

      I don't even have to think about it. No deal. I sleep well and I like that way. I don't mean to make myself sound like a saint here, I've made my share of mistakes in judgment along the way, as we all do. I'm just saying I've stuck to my guns as best I could and don't see any reason to change that as I enter the home stretch of this death race.

      Let me put it another way ... who I am is more important to me than how much I have.

      Of course, you could say it's easy to say that when I'm living well, but what if times go harder? I've been through plenty of hard times. They helped shape me. It's the hard times that reveal our character, not the easy times.
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    • Profile picture of the author Haoting Chow
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      Mike, I've fought the temptation to take the easy, unethical road for most of my life. We all are tempted, right? I found a safe full of money left open and I locked it when I was a security guard. When a cashier gives me back too much money I return it. Blah blah blah ... that's who I am and how I'm comfortable living.

      The average expectancy in the US is 75.6 years for a male. If I'm average, I've got 20 years left. The price of "selling out to the devil" would be much steeper than giving up my ethics. It would be giving up how I've tried to live the first 55 years of my life.

      I don't even have to think about it. No deal. I sleep well and I like that way. I don't mean to make myself sound like a saint here, I've made my share of mistakes in judgment along the way, as we all do. I'm just saying I've stuck to my guns as best I could and don't see any reason to change that as I enter the home stretch of this death race.

      Let me put it another way ... who I am is more important to me than how much I have.

      Of course, you could say it's easy to say that when I'm living well, but what if times go harder? I've been through plenty of hard times. They helped shape me. It's the hard times that reveal our character, not the easy times.
      'Who I am is more important than what I have.' Indeed.

      This reminds me of a quote by a man in Breakthrough with Tony Robbins in CBS.

      'I may be broke but I am not poor.'

      What is most important is what we have inside us, our character and our core values. Money and everything else are just part of the physical world which we part with when we die.
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    • Profile picture of the author ajbarnes777
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      ... It's the hard times that reveal our character, not the easy times.
      What a quote! This is something I have been experiencing myself and is also something I plan on teaching my kids as they get older.
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  • Profile picture of the author rapidscc
    LOL Martin

    "Merda taurorum animas conturbit" = Bull**** Baffles the Brain

    And make people hit the BUY NOW button.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by rapidscc View Post

      LOL Martin

      "Merda taurorum animas conturbit" = Bull**** Baffles the Brain

      And make people hit the BUY NOW button.
      Thats one school of thought...

      Another is that simple clarity helps people make buying decision. It is often said (by me) that "A prospect never buys while they are scratching their head".

      The body can lose weight by eating nothing but vegetables and taking in few calories..., it can also switch operating systems, and lose weight while GORGING on piles of red meat... and completely avoiding vegetables and grains...

      Weird huh?

      Operating systems... which operating system are you using? Alot of them work.

      But , yes, Baffling w B______... Works.
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  • Profile picture of the author kelana
    That 'disclosure' is hilarious Mike...nice one.

    But you pose a serious question nevertheless, and I'm not at all sure how I would answer. For sure I would have to feel comfortable with the pitch I make though.

    Cheers - Keith
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    • Profile picture of the author rosetrees
      It still surprises me that fake scarcity gets past the FTC. It's an obvious and blatant lie in most cases.
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      • Profile picture of the author Vogin
        Yeah, the thing is smart people can see through most of the sales letter like there really was a disclosure like yours.

        On the other hand, I can strongly recommend Scientific Advertising by Claude Hopkins (and distributed by Jonah Klimack). That's quite an eye-opening PDF, leaving such practices far behind in the dust.
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Burr
          Im a dumbass I bought into the hype for so long!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Originally Posted by mikemcmillan View Post


    Now, what if a similar disclosure requirement were initiated for product vendors in the IM niche. In other words, what if they were required to reveal the true nature of their products in a disclosure statement that appeared at the bottom of their sales pages? Gads! Their disclosure statements might look like this...

    [snip]

    Aside from these minor discrepancies between our sales page and our actual product--most of what we claim is pretty close to being truthful and honest.

    Now, there is obviously no such pending law that would require Internet marketers to make such disclosure statements. But what if there was?

    And--while we are all guilty of guru bashing because of their somewhat deceptive sales copy tactics, were we in their shoes would we do anything different?

    If the opportunity to you arose to make a Faustian deal with the devil in which you could do what you do now and make $25,000 a year selling your stuff, or--make $1.5 million dollars by bending, stretching, and twisting the truth a bit, would you take it? Are you sure? I'd think about that for a while, and a while longer before you answer.
    First, the first part of your post is pure fiction. There is no requirement for any product to go to those lengths except for "health" products.

    But there are "deceptive marketing" laws and the FTC cracking down on things like forced continuity and fake testimonials, etc. are examples of that.

    As for taking the easy road and feeding people a line of BS to make money ... I don't do it and am not tempted in the least bit. The assumption here is that it is everybody's "dream" to be fabulously wealthy.

    That's not my dream. I make my living online by selling my own products and services and try to keep my customers feeling like they got a lot more than they paid for. I'm happy to be able to make a living doing what I like to do, when I want to do it and having no one as my boss. That's a dream I've fulfilled.

    Money, flashy cars, estates.... that's just stuff and stuff doesn't impress me. Who people are and how they impact others and the world they live in impresses me ... or not.

    So ... the people who make a fortune by feeding a line of BS to people who should be smart enough not to fall for it ... they don't impress me. Anyone can be a con artist. If that's all you've got at the end of the day ... the ability to con and a bunch of shiny stuff to prove you are the best con ... you don't impress me.
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    Even drug side effect disclosure requirements haven't slowed down the growth of the pharmaceutical industry Mike, so I don't think I can agree with you on this.

    Entertaining read though.
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    • Profile picture of the author TheRichLife
      Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

      Even drug side effect disclosure requirements haven't slowed down the growth of the pharmaceutical industry Mike, so I don't think I can agree with you on this.

      Entertaining read though.
      I agree.

      Surgeon General warnings on cigarettes don't seem to harm sales, either. The list of warnings that are ignored by consumers who want the product is quite long.
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  • Profile picture of the author warriorkay
    Wow, to imagine you spent several MINUTES, (hours?)
    on putting this together. Yikes, you should be a writer,

    Kingsley
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    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
      Originally Posted by warriorkay View Post

      Wow, to imagine you spent several MINUTES, (hours?)
      on putting this together. Yikes, you should be a writer,

      Kingsley
      I have to agree. I wonder if he's ever given that much thought....

      Tina
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      • Profile picture of the author mcmahanusa
        @Mike,
        Thank you for a thought-provoking post.

        @Dennis
        I like to think that, as I've matured, I tend to follow the path you find yourself on. I have noticed that as I've grown older, being ethical in my business dealings and practices has become increasingly important to me.

        At the same time, I have less patience with the charlatans and mountebanks that I encounter on an almost daily basis. I find myself grateful for the attitudes and wisdom of so many on this forum, people who regard ethics as a way of life rather than just an amusing concept to be followed by the less successful. Perhaps, as one gets older, the indisputable fact that coffins are not double-occupancy makes a person want to take his/her obligations to others more seriously.
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    • Profile picture of the author mikemcmillan
      I am very, very disturbed by the comment posted by Dennis Gaskill! Not so much by what he said about my posting, but by the fact that he mentioned he was 55 years old. OMG, I'm 59--older than Dennis G! I had no idea. I'm going to have to rethink my entire outlook on life now .

      Dennis said...

      <<"I've been through plenty of hard times. They helped shape me. It's the hard times that reveal our character, not the easy times."
      >>

      I couldn't agree with you more brother! And, had you not posted your comment, I could have almost written it for you, because I know you are a man of ethics and good beliefs. I can assure everyone of that! Sometimes I think it's the things that make us cry that reveal our true character more than the things that make us laugh.

      In Star Trek V or VI, Sybok, the disturbed brother of Spock, took over the Enterprise to find the "god" of the universe. His most famous line was, "Come, join with me and let me take away your pain."

      When he approached Kirk, Kirk replied to McCoy, "Dammit Bones, you're a doctor. You know that pain and guilt can't be taken away with the wave of a magic wand. They're the things we take with us that make us who we are. If we lose them we lose ourselves! I don't want my pain taken away. I need my pain."

      See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLzJAebfEIg

      I think Dennis said it better though.

      I appreciate everyone's comments above. Without a critical mass of individuals with beliefs like you have expressed, the world would be a cold, grey, soulless place--rather than the world with the color, the hope, and the lithe beauty we as humans are blessed to experience.

      It's people like you who make the WF the great place that it is!

      --Mike
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  • Profile picture of the author deannatroupe
    Very entertaining post. My husband and I always laugh about all of the drug commercials. We wait for all of the side effects after all of the claims about how wonderful the drug is. As far as your question about ethics, that is not a hard decision for me. If something doesn't seem right, I won't promote it. That's why I like to test things out before I suggest it to my list. I like to be able to sleep at night. Yes, I've been in tough spots before, but I will never stoop to being dishonest just to make a buck.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Burr
    Wow this is how I feel, couldn't of said it better myself. I have actually stoped buying all this crap and look forward to truth in dvertising legistartion fot Internet marketing THANKS Im only down a few hundred as of ths posting
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    Hi Mike,

    As I was reading the "disclaimer" I had one nagging thought:

    "This would only apply to those who aren't honest marketers."

    So, I would welcome such a requirement with open arms. I would gladly add comments about my products. I'm not sure what they would say, but I know two things:

    1. The disclaimer would be radically different than your example.

    2. My disclaimer would include some sort of clause that said something like "Yes, you will actually have to follow thorugh in the information provided."

    Okay, three things!

    3. Most Warriors would probably agree with the above two points.

    That being said, I loved your post, and your disclaimer had me laughing out loud! Thanks!

    All the best,
    Michael
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    • Profile picture of the author mikemcmillan
      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

      My disclaimer would include some sort of clause that said something like "Yes, you will actually have to follow thorugh in the information provided.... That being said, I loved your post, and your disclaimer had me laughing out loud! Thanks!
      All the best,
      What? I would have to actually implement the information in your product to profit from it? I never would have thunk it! That's funny M.O., but there's a whole lot of truth in it.

      Okay, so I made you chuckle and you did the same for me. Next time let's take it up a notch... you buy me a beer and I'll buy you one! Sheeze, it's only 11:00A.M. here and I'm thinking about drinking. I think I need to get myself into a program! --Mike
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Well, there goes my take on a "get paid to read" program; I'd have to tell people 'you read, I get paid'... :p (Just joking, people, just joking! See the smiley that proves it?)

        Mike, that was fun to read. Thanks.

        It brought two things to mind...

        1. A cartoon in a magazine, which showed Colonel Sanders being led away in handcuffs by police. The caption read "The lab report came back. We had a little problem with some of the secret herbs..."

        2. A humorous novel from even longer ago about a guy that got fabulously wealthy with a string of fast-food joints, with an addictive "secret sauce". The big secret ingredient turned out to be opium, so the sauce actually was addictive.

        The truly sad part is that, like the "these things will kill you" warnings on the cigarette pack, the dream of quick, effortless wealth is so addictive in some that warnings are meaningless.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          I just realized that subconsciously I have been filling in that disclaimer in my mind every time I see a sales headline with 7 or more adjectives. So it may not be legal but its real in the mind of some buyers already.
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        • Profile picture of the author mikemcmillan
          John, funny you should comment on my deceptive advertising post. Word is that the fish you are holding is actually a 4" bluegill you've Photoshopped to death. That's genuine deception! Just kidding, John, I'm envious of your outdoor lifestyle down there.

          So yes, I do wonder how low some of these vendors will go to promote their products. I'm waiting for something like, "Buy this product and I promise to get you laid in your home town tonight!"

          And I swear, if I see some of you guys using that technique tomorrow I'm gettin' out of this business!
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by mikemcmillan View Post

            John, funny you should comment on my deceptive advertising post. Word is that the fish you are holding is actually a 4" bluegill you've Photoshopped to death. That's genuine deception! Just kidding, John, I'm envious of your outdoor lifestyle down there.

            So yes, I do wonder how low some of these vendors will go to promote their products. I'm waiting for something like, "Buy this product and I promise to get you laid in your home town tonight!"

            And I swear, if I see some of you guys using that technique tomorrow I'm gettin' out of this business!
            lol ... I've already seen this type of pitch for all the "adult dating" ads.
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            • Profile picture of the author jasonmorgan
              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

              lol ... I've already seen this type of pitch for all the "adult dating" ads.
              And you see it's equivalent in many of the WSO ads and signatures in this very thread.

              Perhaps some of the Make $10,000 In Three Months signatures should include the clause *the author of this signature has yet to make $10,000 after 3 years of internet marketing and the claims made above are purely hypothetical best case scenario results.

              There is a line where sales hype become fraudulent advertising.

              .
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              • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
                Originally Posted by pierro View Post

                I wonder if "disclaimers" had the option of audio... Would people prefer listening than reading! just a thought.
                Cheers, pierro
                I don't know if people would prefer to listen to the disclaimers, but your comment reminded me of something.

                Several years ago, Federal Express ran a series of ads where the ad copy was read by the guy who held the world record for talking fast. Guy talked a mile a minute, but you could understand every word - if you were really listening. Otherwise, it was an annoying buzz, like someone playing a radio in another room that you can't quite make out.

                American drug ads do this now - in a 60 second spot, ~45 seconds goes to an announcer reading the disclaimers in a monotone as fast as possible.

                Originally Posted by davewebsmith View Post

                Dont know about you all but I was always taught ...

                Honesty is the always the best policy ... Keeps you out of trouble
                Yep, always tell the truth - it's much easier to remember...
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
        Originally Posted by mikemcmillan View Post

        What? I would have to actually implement the information in your product to profit from it? I never would have thunk it! That's funny M.O., but there's a whole lot of truth in it.

        Okay, so I made you chuckle and you did the same for me. Next time let's take it up a notch... you buy me a beer and I'll buy you one! Sheeze, it's only 11:00A.M. here and I'm thinking about drinking. I think I need to get myself into a program! --Mike
        Well, if you're a Yuper, that may be a distinct possibility. However, if you are a Troll*, then it would take a bit more planning.



        ~Michael




        * In this sense the word 'Troll' does NOT refer to those who disrupt things at the forum, but is a term that refers to people of a specific geographic area.
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        • Profile picture of the author fort21
          hi all,

          I am so motivated to join in even as a newbie. I always have this in my mind "the people who see through the power of wealth are the wealthiest". Probably because I am not wealthy, sour grape huh???
          In this thread, I think I would first thank Mike for sparking the flames and follow by everyone who fired words of righteousness, like Dennis, Sbucciarel and fellow warriors. $25,000 or $1.5M does makes me wave. A thread like this will act like a admonition and instill many merits towards further internet marketers like me.

          Cheers!
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        • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
          Originally Posted by Graham Maddison View Post

          - snip -

          Recent events in my life have led me to look at ways of raising funds in a way which I would never have dreamed of before. Some would call it immoral or even unethical.

          When your back is truly against the wall, your reasoning changes believe me.
          Graham, I know circumstances can influence our thinking and reasoning. Desperation can lead to temptation, no doubt. I think most of the time there are better options than to compromise our principles, though it may be hard to see the other options when we're in the midst of trouble.

          As I said, I'm not pretending I'm a saint here, but Mike's scenario wasn't about desperation, it was about having a low income or making a deal with the devil for a dream income. I made a similar choice the year my site was hacked. I lost 80% of my income. I made less than the $25,000 Mike stipulated you'd earn as the ethical option in his scenario, and I didn't compromise my principles.

          I can't say I would never compromise my principles because I don't know what the future holds. I am saying I would do my best not to give in -- having enough and keeping my integrity is a better choice for me than having excess at any cost.

          There's a huge difference between need and greed. Would I steal food for my baby if I had no other way to get it? Yes, absolutely. Would I cheat you and hundreds or thousands of others out of $97 because I wanted to be a millionaire? No.

          By the way, I'm also not judging others here. As I said, this is who I am and how I'm comfortable living, but we each have to choose who we want to be for ourselves.

          Originally Posted by jokers_inc View Post

          'I may be broke but I am not poor.'
          I like that quote!

          Originally Posted by mcmahanusa View Post

          @Dennis
          I like to think that, as I've matured, I tend to follow the path you find yourself on. I have noticed that as I've grown older, being ethical in my business dealings and practices has become increasingly important to me.

          At the same time, I have less patience with the charlatans and mountebanks that I encounter on an almost daily basis. I find myself grateful for the attitudes and wisdom of so many on this forum, people who regard ethics as a way of life rather than just an amusing concept to be followed by the less successful. Perhaps, as one gets older, the indisputable fact that coffins are not double-occupancy makes a person want to take his/her obligations to others more seriously.
          I think as we mature (not age, but mature) our ethics become clearer, we're less willing to make compromises for the sake of convenience, and hopefully we learn life isn't just about what we get, it's also about how we get it and about what we give.
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  • Profile picture of the author Barry Unruh
    The sad truth is almost no one reads the Medical Disclaimers, and the odds are no one would read the IM disclaimer either.

    They would read the "Make $200,000 by Friday and Save Your Home With a $40 WSO!" and the disclaimer suddenly is not even visible.

    Most of those funny clips out of Medical Disclaimers get found by a very few people, with the rest of the world seeing the fine print as a complete and utter waste of paper. The headline was the only thing important. "Lose 20 Pounds by Next Friday"... who cares about all the side effects, pass the tablets.

    I'd even bet you could take your disclaimer, link to it from a WSO, and it would not impact sales 1%.

    The good news, most of us are relatively ethical, with only the few dirtying the water.
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  • Profile picture of the author dv8domainsDotCom
    Originally Posted by mikemcmillan View Post

    .....
    If the opportunity to you arose to make a Faustian deal with the devil in which you could do what you do now and make $25,000 a year selling your stuff, or--make $1.5 million dollars by bending, stretching, and twisting the truth a bit, would you take it? Are you sure? I'd think about that for a while, and a while longer before you answer.
    "When it is a question of money, everybody is of the same religion." ~Voltaire
    .....
    Great Quote - Fairly Certain most would like to have a grain of dishonesty for maybe .5 mil, instead of complete falsehood for 1.5?... maybe little "white lies" here and there, instead of outlandish proposals? Suspension of disbelief. Grand claims require grand proof and what-not.

    Claims that are just barely outside my own realm of understanding, and yet close, may not take as much to make me believe; and I'm less likely to be thoroughly peeved if they don't seem to live up as expected. If you tell me I'm going to make .5 mil, and I make .3, then meh. Oh well. But if you tell me I'm going to make 1.5 mil, and I make .3, then OMG you better watch out bubbah!

    I wouldn't be thoroughly deceptive, but definitely "grey area" if it made me more profitable. It takes TRUE deception to be dirty filthy rich, and I lack the heart or the balls.
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  • Profile picture of the author oneplusone
    If you think about it, this could apply to virtually anything
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Million
    It's never going to be an issue if you're smart about it. Your disclaimers can actually convert more buyers if you spice them up... there's way better than this, but I just wrote this up real quick to show an ex...

    Disclaimer: The FDA feels that you can't make a rational purchasing decision on your own, so they would like me to inform you that this product (just like any other product in the internet marketing niche) is not guaranteed to put any coin in your pocket. If any of you got the impression that money appears in your bank account after ordering, I sincerely apologize as that is certainly not the case. All I can provide you are the steps I've personally taken to achieve the results shown here. If that sounds good, I'll see you on the other side. If working hard isn't in your nature then perhaps business is not your cup of tea, and your money would better be spent on taking your family out to dinner.
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  • Profile picture of the author Johnny12345
    Originally Posted by mikemcmillan View Post

    And--while we are all guilty of guru bashing because of their somewhat deceptive sales copy tactics, were we in their shoes would we do anything different?

    Yes -- I'd tell the truth.

    Cheating people is the foolish, lazy, and dangerous way to make money. A lot of people seem to think that copywriting is about telling the biggest lies you can get away with -- but it isn't.

    Same goes with Internet marketing, in general. Too many people think that being deceptive is just part of the business. But -- done properly -- it isn't. You don't have to take advantage of people to make money.

    And remember this: The people you cheat or mislead are NOT nameless, faceless individuals. They're people just like your best friend, your neighbors, and your own family members.

    If you're one of those rare people who sell or promote good products and honestly try to help people and provide value -- you'll practically be alone in your niche. And you'll build a reputation you can be proud of. At the end of the day, you have to look yourself in the mirror and live with the decisions you make.

    Besides, if you're an honest marketer, you already know that making money by helping people is a lot more fun than making money by cheating them.

    Regards,

    John
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  • Profile picture of the author leebarclay
    I like to share a true story about an experience I went through...
    After a couple of years of frustration I took a break for about 3 months... Never even turned on my computer. When I finally got the courage to return I found 1,000's of emails in my inbox... Feeling overwhelmed I went through the emails and hit the reply button and reached out in a quest for some help... I must have sent at least 50 replies... I got 3 responses all along the same line... Sorry Lee however unlike all the hype about free time and working whenever you want being a successful Internet Marketer is more than a full time job. So I am sorry to say I am to busy to help you at this time... Good Luck! All 3 emails said pretty much the same thing and 1 email included some very helpful links...
    What is funny is that is now the new selling tactic I have seen in several sales letters that the so called gurus have full time jobs lots of emplyees etc etc
    I guess the lesson learned is not to belive all the bs out there...
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  • Profile picture of the author HarveyDanger
    I'd have to tell the truth. This might be a different story if I was a lot older, but as I am still young, I feel like the future matters a lot. I don't want to just sell one crappy product and be out of IM forever. I am trying to build relationships and loyal customers in the long run. It's way too early for me to give in to the quick bucks.
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  • Profile picture of the author mikemcmillan
    I think everybody here has kind of got a similar moral compass to guide them in their travels.

    Somebody once said something like...

    I know that I'm lost in my journey through life, but at least I'm makin' good time.

    I don't think any of the posters here are lost on their journey. I think we're all on the same page. It sounds like it! --Mike
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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    Thank you, Mike!

    Your description was brilliant! You are an artist.

    Once I wrote a funny article using the word “however” all the time. Then I thought that I could write something similar about IM.

    Something like:

    “It’s very easy to make money online.

    However, you have to work a little bit.

    You’ll spend all your money and get frustrated in the end.

    However, you can begin again after learning your lessons.

    These lessons won’t help you succeed.

    However, you’ll avoid repeating silly mistakes.

    At a certain point you’ll find something good.

    However, it won’t last for long.”
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  • Profile picture of the author entrepreneurjay
    Originally Posted by mikemcmillan View Post

    Ponder this. Surely you've seen ads for pharmaceutical companies in print magazines. There is a full page ad for the product and then, as required by the FDA, a page or two of disclosures and warning statements that read something like this:

    In certain individuals this product has been shown to cause projectile vomiting, cramping, painful hemorrhoidal tissues, painful perineal oozing boils , dyspepsia, incontinence, nail fungus, colo-rectal inflammation, reverse peristalsis, indigestion, nausea, hallucinations, sinusitus, ingrown nasal hairs, cardiac arrythmia, hypertension, bronchial constriction, sensitivity to light, joint pain, flatulence, septicemia, loss of balance, delusions of grandeur...

    You get the idea, and yes--I made some of that stuff up myself.

    Now, what if a similar disclosure requirement were initiated for product vendors in the IM niche. In other words, what if they were required to reveal the true nature of their products in a disclosure statement that appeared at the bottom of their sales pages? Gads! Their disclosure statements might look like this...

    Following the directions in this product could well get your accounts at ezinearticles, articlesbase, buzzle, helium, goarticles, articlesnatch, articlealley, articledashboard, ideamarketers, isnare, searchwarp,, articlecity, sooperarticles, articleclick, articlerich, articlecube, articlestars, submityourarticle, abcarticledirectory, articlecompilation, articlesfactory, articlepool, articleslash, upublish, acmearticles, articlenexus.com13, thewhir, articlecentral, articlesalley, fourpxarticles, articlebliss, articlecell, 365articles, Blogger, Weblogs, Inc, BlogCode: BlogCode, blo.gs, BlogLines, Digg, del.icio.us, Reddit: Reddit, StumbleUpon, Blinklist, Techcrunch, Furl, Spurl, Trailfire, Wetpaint, YouTube, Vimeo, Mixx, Feedburner, PinGoat, Ping-O-Matic, FeedShark, Clipmarks, Magnolia, Digg, Propeller, Socialogs, Indianpad, Technorati, Slashdot, Diigo, Wirefan, Bibsonomy, Blinklist, Blogmemes, Bluedot, Myjeeves, Backflip, CraigsList,, Netvouz, Folkd, Blinkbits, Plugim, Linkagogo, Mister-wong, Connotea, Thoof, Corank, Megite, Yample, Squidoo, Taggly, Tagza, Dzone, Dropjack, A1-webmarks, Buddymarks, Bookmarktracker, Fark, Connectedy, Mylinkvault, Tumblr, Searchles, Bringr, Searchallinone, Marktdf, Postonfire, MyOpera, My YaHoo, YaHoo Groups, Plime, and Boosch locked, frozen, or abolished.

    Our sales page states that only 300 copies of this product will be sold. That's an outright lie. In fact, we expect to sell over 1,000 units in the first 24 hours after the launch and an additional 6,000 units within the following week. Only a dumb ass would believe that we will limit the sales to 300 units.

    Some of our screen shots showing earnings have been doctored to reflect forward-looking earning projections that very few, if any, individuals purchasing this product might achieve.

    All of the testimonials shown on our sales page come from JV partners who have vested interests in increasing the sales of the product. Most were written by our partners who have not only never tried the product, but who have never even seen the product in its entirety. And the earnings they claim to have made after they did receive the product are no more than their normal earnings they achieve during any similar period.

    While our sales page says that only 17 units are left and you must order today, this is a digital product and unlimited units can be delivered within any time frame. If you come back in 30 days you will see the same "Only 17 units left" statement at the bottom of the page.

    We cannot sell this product to customers in Texas, California, New York, Maine, Idaho, Wisconsin, Florida, Georgia, Oregon, Indiana, Montana, and Maryland (pending attorney general ruling) and an FTC litigation.

    While we say that we offer exceptional 24/7 customer support, our support team consists of my child's 13 year old babysitter who will respond through re-Tweets from her Twitter account. (She has over 82,000 Twitter followers!)

    We do not offer refunds as the refund rate for our last product launched exceeded 46%. We simply cannot make a fair ROI if we generate refunds for everyone who requests one. We hope you can appreciate our position.

    NOTE ON OUT BONUSES: All of the "exclusive" bonuses offered with this product are actually part of a PLR package we picked up for only $15 and represent products the original developer was unable to make a profit with because the refund rates were excessive.

    We do apologize for the 11 exit pop-ups we use to promote our up-sells but it does increase out bottom line by nearly 60%. And the $295 OTO we hit you with after your initial sale, well--we try our best to make you feel that the original product is dysfunctional without the OTO offered. After all, we have already got your money for the initial sale, so we believed you were not only gullible enough to get that product, but stupid enough to go for the overpriced OTO as well.

    The good news is that if you opt in to our list from the pop-up on our sales page, it is unlikely you will be getting a ton of email marketing junk from us. You see the FTC requires auto-responder services to report accounts with excessive complaint and unsubscribe rates, and well--with a complaint rate approaching 18%, we got nailed on that one. Hope to be able to export our list to a less ethical service who will let us slip by in spite of our complain rates.

    And yes, if you do install our secret software on your computer, it will execute a data acquisition subroutine that will collect information on you, your browsing habits, bookmarks and pass it back to us every time you get online.

    Aside from these minor discrepancies between our sales page and our actual product--most of what we claim is pretty close to being truthful and honest.

    If you have any problem with our sales copy, contact our copywriter to whom we paid $15,000 for the copy. We told him to put all of that bull **** in the copy, and in his agreement with us he gets a percentage of the total sales--and he'll say anything to make a buck.


    Now, there is obviously no such pending law that would require Internet marketers to make such disclosure statements. But what if there was?

    And--while we are all guilty of guru bashing because of their somewhat deceptive sales copy tactics, were we in their shoes would we do anything different?

    If the opportunity to you arose to make a Faustian deal with the devil in which you could do what you do now and make $25,000 a year selling your stuff, or--make $1.5 million dollars by bending, stretching, and twisting the truth a bit, would you take it? Are you sure? I'd think about that for a while, and a while longer before you answer.

    If you could make your real life exceed the life of your dreams, would you be willing to cross a line in the sand you have drawn which represented the ethical constructs by which you had previously lived?

    Think about your spouse, your children, maybe an aging parent living on social security who can't afford the meds required to give them the quality-of-life factor they deserve in their later years. Are you still sure you wouldn't accept the above proposition?

    "When it is a question of money, everybody is of the same religion." ~Voltaire

    That is hilarious, it gave me a good laugh. Thanks for sharing it too funny.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ryan Ado
      Very entertaining and true at the same time. Some people will do anything for money, a sad reality.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jonathan Browne
        Yeah you definitly don't want to become unethical just to make some money.

        I think there's quite a few people who are fabulously wealthy though without being unethical at all.
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  • Profile picture of the author mikemcmillan
    I dug the image shown below from a thingie I wrote in which I critiqued some selling techniques. Since I'm much older than most of you, I'm assuming you've never seen this ad before.

    Joe Karbo was a pioneer in direct mail marketing back in the 70's. He sold over 800,000 copies of his little $10 Lazy Man's Way To Riches. The ad ran in hundreds of major newspapers and magazines across the country. Here is a shot from a full-page ad which ran in Time magazine back in 1976.



    The reason I point this out is that many of the advertising practices we see marketers use today are not new, not by any means. Many of these tactics have been used for over 40 years successfully.

    Joe's tactic was to promise the world, but disclose nothing about the product. Had he said is system was about investing in real estate, that would have turned off 95% of the readers of his ad. Had he said it dealt with mutual funds, that would have turned off 95% of the readers of his ad... so on and so on.

    His approach was to tell what the program WAS NOT. Here's what he said:

    This does not require education.
    It doesn't require capital.
    It doesn't require luck.
    It doesn't require talent.
    It doesn't require youth. It doesn't require experience.

    A lot of the product vendors use this tactic today. If they told you exactly what the product was and what it did, no one would buy it. Just saying, a lot of the marketing tactics we see today had their seeds planted long ago.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by mikemcmillan View Post

      Joe's tactic was to promise the world, but disclose nothing about the product.

      His approach was to tell what the program WAS NOT. Here's what he said:

      This does not require education.
      It doesn't require capital.
      It doesn't require luck.
      It doesn't require talent.
      It doesn't require youth. It doesn't require experience.

      A lot of the product vendors use this tactic today. If they told you exactly what the product was and what it did, no one would buy it. Just saying, a lot of the marketing tactics we see today had their seeds planted long ago.
      I bought that book. I was disappointed in it, but the marketing was brilliant. You reminding me of it makes my want to create my own mystery product, but hopefully one that doesn't disappoint.
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    • Profile picture of the author N4PGW
      LOL: I saw the subtitle on this. Sometimes I find myself working too many long hours to not make enough money to make ends meet to have time to work my business so I can earn enough to make ends meet.


      Originally Posted by mikemcmillan View Post


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      • Profile picture of the author mikemcmillan
        Originally Posted by N4PGW View Post

        LOL:
        Sometimes I find myself working too many long hours to not make enough money to make ends meet to have time to work my business so I can earn enough to make ends meet.
        I think I understand what you are saying, Buck, but...

        "I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."

        Not sure who said that, but it came to mind when reading your post, Buck. Now I'm really confused :confused: ! --Mike
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        • Profile picture of the author CCGAL
          Originally Posted by mikemcmillan View Post


          "I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."

          Not sure who said that, but it came to mind when reading your post, Buck. Now I'm really confused :confused: ! --Mike
          If I were a betting woman, I'd guess Ashleigh Brilliant, but since it's more than 17 words, the citation I found that attributes it to Robert McCloskey is probably correct.
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    • Profile picture of the author CCGAL
      [QUOTE=mikemcmillan;2614770]<snip>
      Joe Karbo was a pioneer in direct mail marketing back in the 70's. He sold over 800,000 copies of his little $10 Lazy Man's Way To Riches. The ad ran in hundreds of major newspapers and magazines across the country. Here is a shot from a full-page ad which ran in Time magazine back in 1976.<snip>
      /QUOTE]

      I have the original $10 copy of this book, plus the "new expanded" version from not that long ago. (yeah, I've got some Melvin Powers stuff, too ...)

      Great find, that ad - and you made a good point.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        [quote=CCGAL;2812673]
        Originally Posted by mikemcmillan View Post

        <snip>
        Joe Karbo was a pioneer in direct mail marketing back in the 70's. He sold over 800,000 copies of his little $10 Lazy Man's Way To Riches. The ad ran in hundreds of major newspapers and magazines across the country.
        Thats amazing.
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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    Sincerity always involves pointing out the truth. Hiding the truth a little bit is like lying completely. However, this is not what most people think.

    Most marketers tell you only the positive aspects of their products. This is justified as a “marketing technique”.

    Besides that, everyone knows that all marketers lie and exaggerate.

    All your expenses and all the knowledge you need in order to put into practice their brilliant lessons cannot be mentioned in a sales letter. This is part of the marketing technique.

    Many people think that hiding a part of the truth is not exactly lying. There are many different opinions about this matter. Therefore, you cannot make anyone pay you a compensation for misleading you.

    You must be intelligent and realize that you need to spend money and work very hard in order to achieve your goals. If you believe in something unreal, this means that you are an idiot.

    Would the new law transform idiots into wise individuals?

    I guess that it wouldn’t work.

    Most people are totally indifferent to all the dangers that threaten their happiness even when they have many warnings.

    The new law wouldn’t really affect internet marketing.

    You can approve it without fear.



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  • The disclosure thing is annoying at times. I think it is more applicable to medical-related topics rather than others, due to the possible life-threatening aspects of many of the drugs advertised.

    I love the ones that say "this is a dramatization"......really.....we could have never guessed!

    I guess there is a fine line between informing and overloading the viewer or reader.
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  • Profile picture of the author N4PGW
    The pharms don't make "unsubstantiated claims", theoretically, and the disclaimers are for side effects.

    I always reflect on the stuff to fix discolored toe nails. I paraphrase, "You can have pretty, clear toe nails with this medication, if only you want to risk birth defects, deflated b...bs, your gen....ls fall off, you liver and kidneys destroyed... and, of course, in some rare instances, complete and permanent rest. Not to be taken as a sleeping aid."
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by N4PGW View Post

      The pharms don't make "unsubstantiated claims", theoretically, and the disclaimers are for side effects.

      I always reflect on the stuff to fix discolored toe nails. I paraphrase, "You can have pretty, clear toe nails with this medication, if only you want to risk birth defects, deflated b...bs, your gen....ls fall off, you liver and kidneys destroyed... and, of course, in some rare instances, complete and permanent rest. Not to be taken as a sleeping aid."
      Reminds me of a story...

      A man orders one of those 'male enhancement' doodads from an email, and the pills to go with it. Within a week, his equipment is swollen and discolored, and extremely painful.

      The first doctor he sees recommends immediate surgery. Being afraid of hospitals, the man seeks a second opinion. Another recommendation for surgery.

      The man goes to an alternative health clinic for an exam. The practitioner hands the man a small bag of herbs, with instructions to brew tea and drink it three times a day for the pain.

      The man is ecstatic! "You mean I don't have to have surgery like the last two doctors recommended?"

      "Nah, those guys always want to operate. Wait three or four days, and it will fall off by itself..."

      :p
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      • Profile picture of the author mikemcmillan
        Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

        "Wait three or four days, and it will fall off by itself..."


        --Mike
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  • Profile picture of the author Richnana
    I guess I will have to breakdown and join the War Room again. Your post is hilarious. If there are gads of folks that have your kind of humor and maturity.. I might want to hang out with those folks.

    The truth is that you hit the nail right on the head. I refuse to be part of the mania that is surrounding this industry.l Got to get your head clear, put your wallet and credit card back in your pocket and stop chasing the magic solution to your financial problem because the problem and the solution really are the same. Thanks for a great post.
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    • Profile picture of the author mikemcmillan
      [QUOTE=Richnana;2616249]
      ...If there are gads of folks that have your kind of humor and maturity.. I might want to hang out with those folks.

      Hi Richnana, nice to meet you!

      If you mean by "folks that have your kind of maturity," folks in my age bracket, there are none left in my age bracket--I'm the last remaining one!

      Just kidding, but thanks for the nice comment. --Mike
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  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan Denney
    "Only a dumb ass would believe that we will limit the sales to 300 units."

    Haha! I doubt something like this could happen anytime soon though.
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  • Profile picture of the author GuruBomb
    Enough with the "ethical marketing" let's get to work!
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  • Profile picture of the author carlos123
    Originally Posted by mikemcmillan View Post

    If the opportunity to you arose to make a Faustian deal with the devil in which you could do what you do now and make $25,000 a year selling your stuff, or--make $1.5 million dollars by bending, stretching, and twisting the truth a bit, would you take it?
    Absolutely 100% NO! Better to live with a clean conscience than have all the money in the world. Those are not just nice sounding words but truth that I have lived by. Truth which has affected many a decision I have made throughout the years to put what is right before what is expedient or profitable. And let me tell you I would do the same thing again if I had to do it over again.

    I've lost jobs, not taken jobs, lost out on relationships, money and otherwise but have been able for the most part till this very day being able to live with a clean conscience and that is priceless.

    Carlos
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  • Profile picture of the author Randy Daugherty
    Ridiculous! but on the positive side it refreshes my mind..
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  • Profile picture of the author pierro
    I wonder if "disclaimers" had the option of audio... Would people prefer listening than reading! just a thought.
    Cheers, pierro
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    • Profile picture of the author :Elective-
      Yeah it would bring an end to internet marketing, but I would not think this would happen in another 250 years. whatever.

      Actually it wouldn't. If people are really driven into your sales page, and say, "WOW THIS STUFF IZ GREAT ITS GONNA MAKE ME MILLIONS IMA CLICK BUY NOW BUTTON NOWZ".

      These people would not even bother reading your footer disclaimer, and would not bother to read it, as they are so bought over by your sales story.

      Essentially, it is still up to the reader to decide if they would want to buy your product, and it is up to you as the marketer, to make these people buy it, and to somehow make them oblivious to the disclaimer. Who ever reads these disclaimers nowadays anyway? I for one don't
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      • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Martin Luxton
        BTW, drug companies don't make full disclosures - they only publish the results of tests that are favourable.
        When did death become a favorable result?
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  • Profile picture of the author Ruby Rynne
    Oh I remember that Joe Karbo ad. My mother bought the book, I think I read it but I don't remember what it said any more (this was in the early Eighties).

    I always did remember the line 'too busy earning a living to make any money', and I suppose it's been a subconscious mantra. An early case of getting all the value from the ad, and nothing from the product. Plus ca change....
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  • Profile picture of the author davewebsmith
    Dont know about you all but I was always taught ...

    Honesty is the always the best policy ... Keeps you out of trouble
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    watch this space ...
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  • Profile picture of the author selfp
    I thought that most marketers had grown out of all that short sighted bull****. But in these past few months I've seen sales copy beyond belief! Sad thing is, they still sell the dream that every IM wants - big money, no effort. So newbies still fall for it.

    Seems to be mixed views on Frank Kern in the IM community, but for me he is hands down the best in the game. No pressure, but tons of simple psychological triggers. And video just works 10 times better, if you can come across well on it.

    The long and short of it is: it costs more time and money to get new customers than it does to keep existing/past customers loyal and happy. So why p**s your new customers off.
    Customers that already trust you will buy more and pay more, and keep coming back for more.

    Tony
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  • Profile picture of the author JonAlfredsson
    I agree with Martin's post above that they only show the test results and keep the identity of the participants anonymous. Although they may be doing this for money, I believe they still keep this as their part of the deal as professionals. Thanks for posting this content.
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