Does PayPal really shut down accounts for this?

30 replies
I was told by a fellow warrior that if you sell a product and don't provide direct access to it without requiring an opt-in that you risk getting your account shut down.

I also recall a forum thread about it, but can't find it.

Now I'm wondering if it's even true. I'm looking through the PayPal terms and can't find anything that says anything like that.
#accounts #paypal #shut
  • Profile picture of the author Angela V. Edwards
    I have heard that, but I have also seen marketers who do it. I wouldn't risk it, however. I think this came up with the launch of the $7 secrets thing. I do think it's true; you CAN get your account shut down for this.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[234441].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author psresearch
      Thanks, Angela.

      I don't think I'll be doing that then. LOL.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[234446].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
      Originally Posted by Angela V. Edwards View Post

      I have heard that, but I have also seen marketers who do it. I wouldn't risk it, however. I think this came up with the launch of the $7 secrets thing. I do think it's true; you CAN get your account shut down for this.
      That's why that template in $7 Secrets was modified at some point to have an opt-in form first but below it a link directly to the download. This way it's not forced, but you still get about 80% opt-ins.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[234469].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Jeff B
    Originally Posted by markquinn View Post

    I was told by a fellow warrior that if you sell a product and don't provide direct access to it without requiring an opt-in that you risk getting your account shut down.

    I also recall a forum thread about it, but can't find it.

    Now I'm wondering if it's even true. I'm looking through the PayPal terms and can't find anything that says anything like that.
    Why would you want to force them to opt-in in order to download the product that they just paid for? Are you disclosing these terms in your sales letter? Does it say $47 + your email address? They already paid you their hard earned money for your product, if they want to sign up to an update list that choice should be theirs, especially if you're not disclosing this in your sales letter. Chances are good that they'll signup anyway if you're providing free updates or something worthwhile, right?

    Just something to think about.
    Signature

    "Give every man more in use value than you take from him in cash value; then you are adding to the life of the world by every business transaction." - Wallace D. Wattles


    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[234454].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
      Originally Posted by Jeff B View Post

      Why would you want to force them to opt-in in order to download the product that they just paid for? Are you disclosing these terms in your sales letter? Does it say $47 + your email address? They already paid you their hard earned money for your product, if they want to sign up to an update list that choice should be theirs, especially if you're not disclosing this in your sales letter. Chances are good that they'll signup anyway if you're providing free updates or something worthwhile, right?

      Just something to think about.
      I say... This is the wrong way to think.

      You should always do your best to collect the information of proven buyers.

      Follow this guy's advice and you're losing a TON of business month to month.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[234477].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Jeff B
        Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

        I say... This is the wrong way to think.

        You should always do your best to collect the information of proven buyers.

        Follow this guy's advice and you're losing a TON of business month to month.
        I never said not to try to collect the information from them, just to not force it. If you doing your best is forcing them to opt-in to your list in order to get a product they just paid for then all the power to ya.

        Not all of us are sharks looking to squeeze every last dime out of people. If you're giving them value and they know it, they'll be more than happy to continue doing business with you and more than happy to sign up to your list.

        There's nothing wrong with putting the opt-in form at the top of the download page as Step 1: Join Our Update List In Order To Receive Crucial Updates To This Product and then below that put Step 2: Download The Product. Will 100% of them sign up for it? Probably not, but I guarantee you that my success rates are just as good if not better than yours by doing it this way. Plus, I always put a link to a special page in my Read Me files as another chance for them to sign up.

        Sorry, I'm thinking from the mindset of my customer avatar(s) and not from the mindset of a marketing shark. My customers deserve the best possible quality experience when dealing with me and that's what they get and I don't have to force a thing on them. Give your customers a great experience and they'll make sure they end up on your list, no force necessary.

        (P.S. I'm not speaking specifically to you Jason when I say "you" or "your", I'm talking in generalities to the group as a whole. Just want to make this clear. )
        Signature

        "Give every man more in use value than you take from him in cash value; then you are adding to the life of the world by every business transaction." - Wallace D. Wattles


        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[234591].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author tommygadget
    There was once a time that ClickBank wanted you to remove advertising other products on the download pages, but no one listens to that one.

    TomG.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[234455].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author dhudiburg
    I've seen a lot of debate about this and I think it is a gray area. It's not so much the forced opt-in, it's the fact that people complain to PayPal about it and that caused PayPal to react.

    If you are using $7ds, go ahead and put the opt-in form in, but provide a link below it (downplay the link, of course) that allows people to get their DL without opting-in.

    It also helps to provide an additional bonus or other incentive for those who do opt-in. When I had this set-up, I got about an 80% opt-in rate on average.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[234456].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      [DELETED]
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[234473].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Eric Lorence
        I think the problem Paypal had with the $7 script had more to do with the copy, also the affiliate recruitment system.

        But yes, either give a bonus or freebie to get the opt-in, let them download their product with no strings.

        Best!
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[234611].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author psresearch
          Originally Posted by Eric Lorence View Post

          I think the problem Paypal had with the $7 script had more to do with the copy, also the affiliate recruitment system.

          But yes, either give a bonus or freebie to get the opt-in, let them download their product with no strings.

          Best!
          I'm aware of that issue as well, but I was told that this was a specific and separate issue.

          I just took a long nap after posting this and was a bit surprised to see what happened when I was gone. LOL.

          I'm glad I asked though as I got a lot of good ideas from everyone.

          Personally I'll offer the bypass link but immediately below sell the optin.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[235076].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Habitat
        Originally Posted by alexa_s View Post

        There's no point at all in trying to look at it rationally or logically, IMHO.

        PayPal are very bloody-minded when it comes to summarily (and almost arbitrarily) closing down people's accounts for things which other PayPal account-holders have been doing for years, if (a) they come to their attention and (b) someone decides it's contrary to the TOS, which are themselves apparently not consistently applied anyway.

        You just can't take a chance on this. Not with PayPal. They can freeze people's accounts for 6 months for virtually no reason at all, if very widespread forum posters all over the net are to be believed.

        (Another reason for using AlertPay, some might say. And their service has certainly changed beyond all recognition over the last year or so.)
        Yep. Happened to a few people I know..I try to keep as little money in paypal as possible..
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[234624].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Darrell Hagan
        Originally Posted by alexa_s View Post

        There's no point at all in trying to look at it rationally or logically, IMHO.

        PayPal are very bloody-minded when it comes to summarily (and almost arbitrarily) closing down people's accounts for things which other PayPal account-holders have been doing for years, if (a) they come to their attention and (b) someone decides it's contrary to the TOS, which are themselves apparently not consistently applied anyway.

        You just can't take a chance on this. Not with PayPal. They can freeze people's accounts for 6 months for virtually no reason at all, if very widespread forum posters all over the net are to be believed.

        (Another reason for using AlertPay, some might say. And their service has certainly changed beyond all recognition over the last year or so.)
        Yup, couldn't have said it better myself.....
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[235350].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Chad Kimball
    I'm with Jason. I've always asked for the optin after orders and without that I would have flushed thousands of dollars down the toilet.
    Signature
    Make Money Using Google Maps
    Click Below to Learn How-Free Videos


    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[234488].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      [DELETED]
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[234503].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
        Originally Posted by alexa_s View Post

        Can I just add .....

        As a customer, I intensely dislike being asked for contact details after paying. The contract of sale has already been made without that having been mentioned as part of it. There's absolutely no reason I should give my contact details if I don't want to. I find it difficult to believe that this is really strictly an "ethical business practice" although I must admit I've never cancelled an order for anything over it. But it leaves a pretty bad taste in my mouth (as Monica Lewinsky once said about the Democrats).
        You should never FORCE. But always have an opt-in form somewhere.

        With $7 Secrets, you're taken to a squeeze page after the sale that has an opt-in form then below it a link to the download page. So you have a choice.

        I think this is aggressive, but ethical. You're not forced to do anything.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[234520].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Chris Lockwood
    Never had a real customer complain about this, only in this forum.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[234532].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
    Personally I have only ever seen this a problem in the written word.. in practice it seems to work well if both options are given.

    product without opt-in

    and

    Product WITH opt-in

    Opt-ins are good and no issues... no force necessary, just provide both options whilst the customers are at that stage of the buying cycle, they are in receiving mode so they are usually quite happy to opt-in AND grab their purchase, a good 70%+ usually..

    Peace

    Jay
    Signature

    Bare Murkage.........

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[234547].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author natedamm
    I'm glad someone asked this because I was about to myself. After thinking about both options I think I will have an optional opt-in. Getting 70-80% to opt in should be ok. Might be losing some future money by not having them on my list but at least it keeps the customer happy.
    Signature
    Want To Rank Better? Wan't High PR Backlinks?

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[234610].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Mary Green
    It used to be that when people would buy something you could use your email address from aweber to be the one you are notified at, and they would be added to the list. And if you did this couldnt you just say in the sales letter that they will get an instant download email for purchasing, that way they have to optin to get the download? Then you can let them optin to a special customer only list?

    Mary

    I guess my point is because they are our customer don't we have the right to contact them for so long?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[234631].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author psresearch
    Ah. I finally found the Warrior discussion that mentioned the optin issue:

    here it is
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[235322].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author globalpro
      I think there is a misconception where PayPal is concerned. Since the issue of fraud is something that is, and should be, taken seriously, Paypal is very pro-active when a complaint is concerned. Yet I don't know of anybody once the problem arises, that hasn't been able to resolve it to PayPal's satisfaction.

      Usually it's some one who is always going to be a problem.

      The best bet is, when a problem arises, respond quickly. Most of the time it can be a knee jerk reaction by a representative that will freeze an account, but you have to remember they are BUYER oriented, not seller.

      Once your case is stated and steps taken to comply, things are resolved quickly.

      One tip is, if you plan on doing a launch of any sort, contact them in advance and they will 'flag' the account for the influx of activity, which sometimes can give the appearance of potential fraud activity. Communication is the key.

      As for the optin question, I have to go with, if it's structured correctly, then most people are glad to optin, but it can't be forced.

      To the post above, it's a good one. The Rapid Action Script that is mentioned handles the opt in process behind the scenes, instead of the squeeze page set up of the $7 script and has a very high success rate with it's use.

      Thanks,

      John
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[235359].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Darrell Hagan
        Originally Posted by globalpro View Post

        I think there is a misconception where PayPal is concerned. Since the issue of fraud is something that is, and should be, taken seriously, Paypal is very pro-active when a complaint is concerned. Yet I don't know of anybody once the problem arises, that hasn't been able to resolve it to PayPal's satisfaction.

        Usually it's some one who is always going to be a problem.

        The best bet is, when a problem arises, respond quickly. Most of the time it can be a knee jerk reaction by a representative that will freeze an account, but you have to remember they are BUYER oriented, not seller.

        Once your case is stated and steps taken to comply, things are resolved quickly.

        One tip is, if you plan on doing a launch of any sort, contact them in advance and they will 'flag' the account for the influx of activity, which sometimes can give the appearance of potential fraud activity. Communication is the key.

        As for the optin question, I have to go with, if it's structured correctly, then most people are glad to optin, but it can't be forced.

        To the post above, it's a good one. The Rapid Action Script that is mentioned handles the opt in process behind the scenes, instead of the squeeze page set up of the $7 script and has a very high success rate with it's use.

        Thanks,

        John
        Sorry John but although I agree about the fraud issue, I still maintain that PayPal can and will lock or shut down an account for reasons known only to themselves. Often, it doesn't matter what evidence you produce to prove your case. They simply don't care. And in a buyer/seller dispute they will nearly always rule in favor of the buyer, no matter what. Especially if the buyer uses a credit card.

        I'd better get off this topic now and go do something useful before I blow a gasket. Just thinking about those morons pi$$es me off .....
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[235393].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    And in a buyer/seller dispute they will nearly always rule in favor of the buyer, no matter what.
    My stats say differently.
    Signature
    Screw You, NameCheap!
    $1 Off NameSilo Domain Coupons:

    SAVEABUCKDOMAINS & DOLLARDOMAINSAVINGS
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[235431].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author halille
    Hey Guys

    if you don't like to give your email address, i suggest you target another niche than internet marketing related. Maybe secondLife will be a better choice for you than this forum

    Emails collecting is just mandatory for any internet business.

    Given that I assume that you give value to the market and people enjoy reading your emails.
    It's really the mindset of servicing your clients the best ways you can by avoiding them painful experience with others companies

    All the best
    Halille
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[236132].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author psresearch
      Originally Posted by halille View Post

      Hey Guys

      if you don't like to give your email address, i suggest you target another niche than internet marketing related. Maybe secondLife will be a better choice for you than this forum

      Emails collecting is just mandatory for any internet business.

      Given that I assume that you give value to the market and people enjoy reading your emails.
      It's really the mindset of servicing your clients the best ways you can by avoiding them painful experience with others companies

      All the best
      Halille
      I think that comment was just a minor diversion.

      I'm mainly concerned about PayPal freezine or shutting down my account.

      I've known so many people who have had their PayPal accounts shut down for no discernible reason that I guess I'm ultra-paranoid.

      Then again, if there's no discernible reason in those cases, why bother trying to figure this one out. lol
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[236433].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author reclusivecopy
    I've never had a problem with this issue.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[236237].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author uconcept
    Have them sign up first (without double opt in) and then redirect them to the payment page. They've already made the choice of buying.
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[250377].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
    Hehehe

    Create membership sites for even those products that are a one time download and you will never encounter this problem.

    Better yet, tell them you are adding more content to the password protected members' area, and then add some more too, and they will sign up readily.

    Just tell it to them on your sales page... I always do.

    -Lakshay
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[250385].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author trippmarxx
    Hmm.....

    I think I'm going to stick with the optional opt-in form at the top (for updates, freebies and other news), and then put download links right below that. Rather keep it easier on both ends.
    Signature
    Want to speed up your writing and save time?
    This book will show you how:
    --> Write Fast: 21 Powerful Ways to Cut Your Writing Time in Half! <--
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[250391].message }}

Trending Topics