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IM and Copyright Law - How can you prove it's really you?

by writergirlk
21 replies
I just read a thread about someone's WSO that got pirated. That got me thinking - how can we really prove that we were the creators of the product when someone steals it? I know there are methods you can do to try to prevent the pirating... but what can you really do to stop it and go after whoever did it?
#copyright #law #prove
  • Profile picture of the author Chad Kimball
    All I had to do was show them the Old wso post that was way before the scammer had even registered their domain!

    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ld-1000-a.html
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    • Profile picture of the author Careygee
      Originally Posted by Chad Kimball View Post

      All I had to do was show them the Old wso post that was way before the scammer had even registered their domain!

      http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ld-1000-a.html
      Chad,
      Your link is invalid. The following message is received.
      "No Thread specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator
      Carey"
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  • Profile picture of the author Dixiebelle
    Just saying your work is copywritten, is not good enough. You have to register a copywrite, which very few people ever do. Copywriting is expensive and not a good choice for inexpensive products.

    Dixie
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    • Profile picture of the author DeePower
      If you want to collect punitive damages then you have to register the copyright. It's a simple procedure and costs less than $100.

      Dee
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      • Profile picture of the author writergirlk
        Originally Posted by DeePower View Post

        If you want to collect punitive damages then you have to register the copyright. It's a simple procedure and costs less than $100.

        Dee
        Very good point - and you can register more than one work on the same form, too.
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    • Profile picture of the author writergirlk
      Originally Posted by Dixiebelle View Post

      Just saying your work is copywritten, is not good enough. You have to register a copywrite, which very few people ever do. Copywriting is expensive and not a good choice for inexpensive products.

      Dixie
      Can you explain what "not good enough" means? Under the current copyright law, it states that once a work is written the person who wrote it automatically owns the rights. I need a definition of what "not good enough" means so I can understand what you are referring to. Are you referring to the fact that it is much easier to establish ownership if you bothered to register it?
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      • Profile picture of the author write-stuff
        Originally Posted by kohuether View Post

        Can you explain what "not good enough" means? Under the current copyright law, it states that once a work is written the person who wrote it automatically owns the rights. I need a definition of what "not good enough" means so I can understand what you are referring to. Are you referring to the fact that it is much easier to establish ownership if you bothered to register it?
        You are correct that you own the copyright as soon as you set pen to paper. However, registration gives you extra benefits including the ability to sue in a federal court, recovery of attorney fees, in addition to removing doubt of ownership.
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        • Profile picture of the author writergirlk
          write-stuff thanks - that's what I thought. It seems like it would be worth my while as a protective business investment to spend the $35 dollars and register my works. I know you can put more than one thing on the application, too.
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          • Profile picture of the author write-stuff
            Originally Posted by kohuether View Post

            It seems like it would be worth my while as a protective business investment to spend the $35 dollars and register my works.
            Yep. If you have intellectual property that you believe is open to theft, you definitely should register the copyright. But remember, if you're not actually willing to take on the expense of suing an infringer (who may have nothing to pay you with even if you win) then it becomes more of an academic point than practical.
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            • Profile picture of the author writergirlk
              Originally Posted by write-stuff View Post

              Yep. If you have intellectual property that you believe is open to theft, you definitely should register the copyright. But remember, if you're not actually willing to take on the expense of suing an infringer (who may have nothing to pay you with even if you win) then it becomes more of an academic point than practical.
              Good point, there's always that to consider. Plus, suing someone can be stressful! Would it really be worth the hassle? I'm leaning towards no but I also write things like screenplays and novels which I plan on registering once complete so I guess it couldn't hurt if I put an ebook or two on the application, just in case. The novels and screenplays - I would definitely take legal action.
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  • Profile picture of the author Teenage Genius
    I shall teach you how (well how to copyright your own ebooks anyway...)

    Method 1 - When you have finished your ebook (or whatever) attach it to an email and send it to yourself. Dont open the email. That way the email company will log the time and date.

    Method 2 - Same as method 1 except save your ebook to a floppy disk or CD and mail it to yourself in the post, never break the seal on the post, the postal service will stamp it with a date.

    This should help you prove that you made the product before the scammer.
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    • Profile picture of the author Johnny Slater
      Steven, this is called poor mans copyright and it is not legally binding. The US copyright office specifically says this will not stand up and tells you directly not to use this method or rely on it.

      Originally Posted by StevenBird View Post

      I shall teach you how (well how to copyright your own ebooks anyway...)

      Method 1 - When you have finished your ebook (or whatever) attach it to an email and send it to yourself. Dont open the email. That way the email company will log the time and date.

      Method 2 - Same as method 1 except save your ebook to a floppy disk or CD and mail it to yourself in the post, never break the seal on the post, the postal service will stamp it with a date.

      This should help you prove that you made the product before the scammer.
      Signature

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    • Profile picture of the author WildSammy
      This is referred to as the "poor man's copyright":

      Originally Posted by StevenBird View Post

      I shall teach you how (well how to copyright your own ebooks anyway...)

      Method 1 - When you have finished your ebook (or whatever) attach it to an email and send it to yourself. Dont open the email. That way the email company will log the time and date.

      Method 2 - Same as method 1 except save your ebook to a floppy disk or CD and mail it to yourself in the post, never break the seal on the post, the postal service will stamp it with a date.

      This should help you prove that you made the product before the scammer.

      Sounds good, but it doesn't work.


      Good luck,
      Sammy
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  • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
    Here is the Library of Congress Copyright Office where you can learn how to send in your works for copyrighting.

    U.S. Copyright Office

    And their online registration system (which I've never personally used before, I have always done it by mail).

    U.S. Copyright Office - Online Services (eCO: Electronic Copyright Office)

    Particularly relevant to the OP's question is:

    Do I have to register with your office to be protected?
    No. In general, registration is voluntary. Copyright exists from the moment the work is created. You will have to register, however, if you wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement of a U.S. work. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section "Copyright Registration."

    Why should I register my work if copyright protection is automatic?
    Registration is recommended for a number of reasons. Many choose to register their works because they wish to have the facts of their copyright on the public record and have a certificate of registration. Registered works may be eligible for statutory damages and attorney's fees in successful litigation. Finally, if registration occurs within 5 years of publication, it is considered prima facie evidence in a court of law. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section "Copyright Registration" and Circular 38b, Highlights of Copyright Amendments Contained in the Uruguay Round Agreements Act (URAA), on non-U.S. works.

    I've heard about a "poor man's copyright." What is it?
    The practice of sending a copy of your own work to yourself is sometimes called a "poor man's copyright." There is no provision in the copyright law regarding any such type of protection, and it is not a substitute for registration.
    In short:

    If you have any expectation of trying to sue someone successfully in a court of law, spend $35 and register the copyright in DC.

    If you don't expect to sue someone, but you'd like to have the legally required documentation to ensure that if you do, you'll be able to collect additional damages as specified by law as well as collect your attorney's fees, register the work for $35.

    Hope this helps,

    Brian
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    Brian McLeod
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    • Profile picture of the author Killer Joe
      Brian,

      Thanks for pointing out that sending your own work to yourself is a useless exercise. The folk lore that surrounds that issue has caused more disappoinment than believing political promises will actually amount to anything more than a hill of beans.

      In the case of a "poor man's copyright" it's a self inflicted wound. If it's worth protecting, than it's worth following the law. And in the case of copyrighting it doesn't take a lot of effort to do it right.

      KJ
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  • Profile picture of the author halille
    The Poor Man's Copyright technique can do the job for most of your products

    And this is a common practice for people creating Masters Audio of their own songs , etc...

    Madonna lost a case in Europe facing a man with no other proof than the one Steven mention
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    • Profile picture of the author writergirlk
      halille I'd be interested in learning more about that Madonna case - do you have any information about it or know where I can look?
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    • Profile picture of the author Johnny Slater
      First and foremost, never ever take what you read in a forum as legal advice. Too many times people just go on what they read from someone else and end up in deep legal trouble.

      Any time you are unsure of anything concerning legal issues seek out a lawyer who knows what they are talking about.

      As for the "poor mans copyright" here is what the US Copyright Office has to say about it:
      I've heard about a "poor man's copyright." What is it?
      The practice of sending a copy of your own work to yourself is sometimes called a "poor man's copyright." There is no provision in the copyright law regarding any such type of protection, and it is not a substitute for registration.
      U.S. Copyright Office - Copyright in General (FAQ)

      Just because someone else "thinks" it is ok doesn't make it so. Never take advice from anyone on a forum. Seek legal advice from someone who is a qualified legal councel who knows the law.

      Originally Posted by halille View Post

      The Poor Man's Copyright technique can do the job for most of your products

      And this is a common practice for people creating Masters Audio of their own songs , etc...

      Madonna lost a case in Europe facing a man with no other proof than the one Steven mention
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  • Profile picture of the author gatorjack
    True about the poor man's copyright. Here's my $0.02. If you are writing an ebook and plan on making a decent profit off of it, then $35 is probably less than some people spend on fast food and starbucks every month. That's a drop in the bucket if you calculate it. A copyright is good for 70 years after the original author dies (i.e. anything copyrighted after January 1, 1978).

    If you plan on filing any DMCA complaints, then you may just need that piece of paper from the copyright office. I know some hosting/network providers don't care if there's copyright materials on their servers. They want you to show them the paper. If not then they tell you that you have not complied with the terms of filing a DMCA complaint (i.e. per ThePlanet's world).
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    • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
      I give them 48 hours to cease and desist then I start legal proceedings.

      Hard ball works and I have a lawyer who just loves doing this stuff.

      Kindest regards,
      Andrew Cavanagh
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      • Profile picture of the author gatorjack
        Originally Posted by AndrewCavanagh View Post

        I give them 48 hours to cease and desist then I start legal proceedings.

        Hard ball works and I have a lawyer who just loves doing this stuff.

        Kindest regards,
        Andrew Cavanagh
        I'd have to say you're one of the fortunate ones. That is, that can afford an attorney. Or do you know of an affordable attorney?

        When you say legal proceedings, do you mean you have the attorney send the letter threatening legal action or do you actually have the attorney file suit?
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