WSO for $40 = Good thing, preliminary impression

14 years ago

I agree. It has improved. Somewhat less junk, and my WSO has stayed on the first two pages noticeably longer. Not twice as long, but $40 is still a steal of a price. Thanks Allen!

Thanks

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Frank Ayres

14 years ago

I agree that i dont have a problem with price going up, this is up to Allen but couldnt we have been sent an email or an anouncement in forum?

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dmadnani 14 years ago

Originally Posted by SpudDS

I agree that i dont have a problem with price going up, this is up to Allen but couldnt we have been sent an email or an anouncement in forum?

That might have caused a flood of WSOs ( of possibly low quality) to wave in before the specified change.
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Alfred Shelver 14 years ago

Allen in fact did, he put up a big red announcement at the top of the forum. Only later did he find out that he was the only one that could see it and that there was a glitch, but by then the cat was out of the bag and everybody knew. There was a 500 post thread in less than 2 days. fun times

Originally Posted by SpudDS

I agree that i dont have a problem with price going up, this is up to Allen but couldnt we have been sent an email or an anouncement in forum?
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Rod Cortez 14 years ago

Originally Posted by SpudDS

I agree that i dont have a problem with price going up, this is up to Allen but couldnt we have been sent an email or an anouncement in forum?

SpudDS,

I'm on the other side of that coin. I think sending out no notification was a better move. It would have caused a flood of WSOs and bumping to go on and the mods got their hands full as it is. And as with many business mediums out there "prices are subject to change without notice" is a very common statement that businesses put on their terms of use / service / etc.

The people that seem to have the biggest issue with the price increase are those that get 100% (or significant portion) of their revenue from the WSO forum or people who are on a tight budget. In either case, one does not HAVE to use the WSO forum as a medium as there are other ways / places to earn money online.

For $40 it's still a bargain for all the eyeballs you get though.

RoD
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tpw 14 years ago

Originally Posted by SpudDS

I agree that i dont have a problem with price going up, this is up to Allen but couldnt we have been sent an email or an anouncement in forum?

There was a thread talking about the problems in the WSO section one week before the price increase that suggested the price increase was coming...

In that thread, Allen more or less confirmed that there were only a few things he could physically do to try to eliminate some of the problems in the WSO section...

He said while there were many options, many of them would require heavy programming... And the only one he could do easily and quickly was to raise the price...

He said that he had been thinking on the price increase for quite some time, and that he was getting ready to make a move sooner rather than later...

Less than a week later, the price went up...

I was not surprised when it happened, and if you watch what Allen posts with any regularity, you would have seen the writing on the wall too...

Unfortunately, that was in a thread that was eventually deleted, for whatever reason... It made sense at the time to delete the thread...

Many of you may remember this thread, as it was live for nearly a week, before it was deleted...

p.s. But if you watch Allen's profile at the WF, and look to his Statistics, you can generally jump in to see what he is saying on the forum, about the forum, by watching his Posts and Threads Started...

View Profile: admin

If you check, you will note that he is not a regular poster, so you will not have a hard time catching the important stuff from him...
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Dean Jackson

14 years ago

I agree completely. Many of the poor offers vanished completely.

I'm also happier about the amount of time my listings stay on the first page. I can sometimes get over 24 hours!

All in all, it's been a positive change and I think people will think twice about posting up a junk offer.

- Dean

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zerofill

14 years ago

$40 price tag isn't going to get rid of the offers people think of as junk... If they were making enough to bump it at $20 and post it at $20... they more then likely make enough that $40 won't be terribly uncomfortable lol.

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Michael Oksa

14 years ago

I kept track of my latest WSO and this is what I found:

Submitted at 10:59 am
Approved 12:43 pm
Posted 12:56 pm
Page 2 7:45 am

18 hours and 49 minutes on page 1.

Of course that's only one WSO. It was posted on a Thursday morning, so your results may differ (and probably will) based on when you post and other variables.

All the best,
Michael

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Alfred Shelver

14 years ago

Any similiar stats prior to the increase. Or do you know what an average time on page one was prior to this increase?

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

I kept track of my latest WSO and this is what I found:

Submitted at 10:59 am
Approved 12:43 pm
Posted 12:56 pm
Page 2 7:45 am

18 hours and 49 minutes on page 1.

Of course that's only one WSO. It was posted on a Thursday morning, so your results may differ (and probably will) based on when you post and other variables.

All the best,
Michael

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Michael Oksa

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Cathy Shelver

Any similiar stats prior to the increase. Or do you know what an average time on page one was prior to this increase?

Hi Cathy,

Unfortunately, I never really kept track. However, it seems that a WSO could move off the first page in 6 hours or so (but that's only a vague estimate).

For a weekday WSO posting, I'm happy with how long it stayed on page 1. That being said, I still don't give a lot of weight to page 1. Sure, I may pick up a few sales that way, but I think most of them come from my sig.

All the best,
Michael

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Lance K

14 years ago

I find the whole "page 1 exposure" line of thinking interesting. Is anybody tracking anything else other than the amount of time on page 1? I mean, what good is it to know how long you're on page 1 if you don't know what effect it has on the number of views, number of sales, etc.

And even if you start to see more sales, it's impossible to attribute them all to the additional page 1 exposure. It could be because more buyers are dropping in to see if the place has really been cleaned up. It could be because buyers perceive WSOs to be more valuable since the vendor is willing to spend twice as much on the ad. Or it could be a number of other things.

It seems to me that people are attempting to justify paying 2x the price by expecting 2x the exposure. When all they really need to do to break even is sell an extra $20 worth of goods/services per listing (or bump). You shouldn't need 2x the exposure to do that.

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CDarklock

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Lance K

Is anybody tracking anything else other than the amount of time on page 1?

In my experience, "bumping your WSO to page one" and "being active on the forum with a link in your sig" are comparable in their effect on sales. Doing both doesn't make things any better. Doing nothing is, obviously, not going to accomplish much.

But in general, I get just as much benefit from posting with a link in my sig as I do from bumping my WSO. But I think the kind of posts matters; it's not just upping my post count with one-liners and garbage, but actual contribution to the community. If I block out two or three hours of my day just to read the forum and respond to what interests me, I'll get as much benefit from that as I would from the bump.

So in a strange way, raising the price of the WSO is sort of like giving me a rise in pay. When they were $20, I was getting $7 to $10 worth of exposure posting in the forum. Now, I'm getting $13 to $20 worth for the same posts I was making all along.

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Nic Lynn

14 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

So in a strange way, raising the price of the WSO is sort of like giving me a rise in pay. When they were $20, I was getting $7 to $10 worth of exposure posting in the forum. Now, I'm getting $13 to $20 worth for the same posts I was making all along.

This is brillaint! What a great way to frame up the "upside" of the price increase. Like others, I too believe that there is benefit in the new price point (though I never really like to pay more than I did before). Currently, WSOs are staying on the top pages longer and the some of the "junk" WSOs that are churned out specifically to rake in what they can with just bump or two seem to have dried up a bit.

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Kurt

14 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

In my experience, "bumping your WSO to page one" and "being active on the forum with a link in your sig" are comparable in their effect on sales. Doing both doesn't make things any better. Doing nothing is, obviously, not going to accomplish much.

But in general, I get just as much benefit from posting with a link in my sig as I do from bumping my WSO. But I think the kind of posts matters; it's not just upping my post count with one-liners and garbage, but actual contribution to the community. If I block out two or three hours of my day just to read the forum and respond to what interests me, I'll get as much benefit from that as I would from the bump.

So in a strange way, raising the price of the WSO is sort of like giving me a rise in pay. When they were $20, I was getting $7 to $10 worth of exposure posting in the forum. Now, I'm getting $13 to $20 worth for the same posts I was making all along.

If this is the case, Allen should raise the price of a WSO to $1,000,000 so we get lots more value from posting in the main forum.

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DavidMaddux 14 years ago

Speaking as someone who is in the planning stages of their first WSO, this thread is full of great content. Thanks to everyone who has shared in it.

The $40 fee sounds fair (or actually cheap). However, it may discourage a few, which is fine and speaks to the OP's point.

How much is it to "bump" your WSO back to page one? Feel free to share any other WSO "gems of wisdom" as well.

Best wishes.
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- DavidMaddux 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by DavidMaddux
  
  How much is it to "bump" your WSO back to page one? Feel free to share any other WSO "gems of wisdom" as well.
  
  Anyone? Thanks.
  
  Best wishes.
  
  Thanks
  
  1 reply
  
  Signature
  
  DavidMaddux.com
  
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  Michael Oksa 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by DavidMaddux
  
  Anyone? Thanks.
  
  Best wishes.
  
  It's $40 to post and $40 per bump.
  
  One other thing to consider is that it seems many more people are viewing the WSO section at any given moment. So, while some may feel the odds are stacked against them due to the higher price, there are (for now) potentially more eyeballs on your offer.
  
  I can say this. I have done a few things differently on my newest WSO, and I am already seeing postivie results because of it.
  
  $40 too much for a WSO? Maybe, maybe not, it doesn't really matter. $40 for getting me to do things better? Way more than worth it.
  
  All the best,
  Michael
  
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  DavidMaddux 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Michael Oksa
  
  It's $40 to post and $40 per bump.
  
  Thank you Michael.
  
  I've noticed you have lots of awesome posts all over this forum.
  
  Best wishes.
  
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  Signature
  
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Lance K

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

Hi Cathy,

Unfortunately, I never really kept track. However, it seems that a WSO could move off the first page in 6 hours or so (but that's only a vague estimate).

For a weekday WSO posting, I'm happy with how long it stayed on page 1. That being said, I still don't give a lot of weight to page 1. Sure, I may pick up a few sales that way, but I think most of them come from my sig.

All the best,
Michael

Michael,

Have you ever used a bit.ly link or something similar to gauge how many of your WSO views are actually coming from your sig?

Thanks

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Brenden Clerget 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Cathy Shelver

Any similiar stats prior to the increase. Or do you know what an average time on page one was prior to this increase?

Yeah Cathy, I'm actually a math guy and kept track of my positions. I found that a bump in the mid morning would push my WSO to page two within about 12 hours and if it wasn't on page three by the end of 24 hours I was surprised.

I submitted my latest WSO Wednesday at around 4:30 PM PST, and it wasn't onto page three until this morning, it was over two days to push it through.

Don, as far as the junk offers still showing up I agree with you, however I feel that with the lower volume of them they're going to stand out like sore thumbs - and eventually, weed themselves out, at least that's my anticipation and must have been Allen's when he did it. My two cents...
- Thanks
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CDarklock 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

18 hours and 49 minutes on page 1.

This is roughly 50% longer than usual, from my tests. WSOs generally become bumpable in 25 hours on the average, so WSOs should average 12 and a half hours on page one.

A single WSO won't display the averages, though. Need more data points.
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Michael Oksa

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

I kept track of my latest WSO and this is what I found:

Submitted at 10:59 am
Approved 12:43 pm
Posted 12:56 pm
Page 2 7:45 am

18 hours and 49 minutes on page 1.

Of course that's only one WSO. It was posted on a Thursday morning, so your results may differ (and probably will) based on when you post and other variables.

All the best,
Michael

Page 3 ~7:45 pm

12 hours on page 2.

What does it prove? Not much, but it's kind of fun to keep track.

~Michael

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Caleb Spilchen

14 years ago

I've had a couple stay on page one for over 24 hours.. Complete awesomeness

.

Caleb..

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Kevin Riley 14 years ago

Good on, Allen. Still a great deal at $40, and should weed out some of the less desirable WSOs (those that are bunged up quickly to make a buck).
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bhuff85

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Caleb Spilchen

I've had a couple stay on page one for over 24 hours.. Complete awesomeness

.

Caleb..

Same here - One weekend almost a year ago, I had a WSO stay on Page 1 for an entire weekend. Lots of views and a surge in sales from that alone. I do hope this cuts down on the WSO's that are nothing but pure garbage. Is there still a high post count to post a WSO? Maybe they should set it at 100 posts or something, so you actually have no choice but to contribute to the forum before you can post? I know more of my recent WSO's before the price change fell off of the first page in less than a few hours it seemed. When I'm ready for another one, I'll pay more attention to how long it stays on page 1.

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Justin Jordan

14 years ago

Originally Posted by bhuff85

Is there still a high post count to post a WSO?

That's a recipe for spam posts. You think we get a lot of worthless one line posts now, imagine if people needed to get to a hundred.

Thanks
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BeenThereDoneThat

14 years ago

So make it thank you's instead of posts. I still think a certain amount of posts and/or a minimum length of time after sign-up is a good idea. Some of the recent WSOs put up by people with 5 posts are ridiculous.
Stef

Originally Posted by Justin Jordan

That's a recipe for spam posts. You think we get a lot of worthless one line posts now, imagine if people needed to get to a hundred.

Thanks
1 reply

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Justin Jordan

14 years ago

Originally Posted by BeenThereDoneThat

So make it thank you's instead of posts. I still think a certain amount of posts and/or a minimum length of time after sign-up is a good idea. Some of the recent WSOs put up by people with 5 posts are ridiculous.
Stef

Same sort of problem for the thanks, although slightly less annoying. People will just group with other people and start fake accounts that will thank each other. This is almost certainly already going on.

Waiting for a time period to go by before you can post a WSO is one of the more workable ideas. It won;t stopp scammers, but it probably would reduce the number of people, since they'd have to buy an already aged account (again, this already happens) or create accounts and wait it out.

All of the solutions come with unintended consequences. One of the real problems is that every solution can be gamed, and every time you create a solution designed to get rid of scammers, you are increasing people's confidence that they won't get scammed, making them more vulnerable to being scammed.

What you have to look at is the effectiveness of the solution, compared to the hassle it creates for honest users, and how much hazard there is of making people more vulnerable to scams.

The sheer volume of the WSO makes it tricky. Unless Allen is willing to hire someone to manage the WSO forum full time (and it would probably take two people) then the volume is going to make it difficult to impossible to keep everyone out who should be out.

And hiring someone to do it brings up its own problems. Although I'd be willing to take the job for an entirely reasonable fee....

Thanks

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Gary King

14 years ago

It's an interesting experiment. I even wrote my lists about it.

(mainly, why it's a good thing and how to find the 40 bucks if you don't have it)

As Lance K suggests, what are others' stats on the impact of sales when things drop from page 1?

I mean, yes, people jumping from one hot thing to the next may have a short attention span and therefore not go past page 1 or two, but aren't we driving sales from other avenues (lists, sig files, etc.)?

Have a great day!

Gary

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MilesT

14 years ago

WSO - Live at 6:50am Thursday, page two at 10:50pm = 16 hours front page. Two hours less time on the front page than Michael Oksa who posted 6 hours later than I did on Thursday.

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GameVoid

14 years ago

I ran my first WSO on the first day that it was $40

Since I am relatively unknown and was launching a new product, the new price did put a bigger dent in my pocket book.

I made 4 sales while it was on page 1, 1 sale while it was on page 2, and another sale like 3 days later which I assume came from my sig link.

Experienced people with great name recognition will do fine under the new price tag, but people (like me) who are new or peddling lower cost products will have to hope for the best in the much-less-trafficked classifieds section until we build up a rep and a list.

My WSO stayed on page one for about 15 hours, btw.

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Rob Howard

14 years ago

Your problem has an easy fix - get in the forum and participate.

Second, make an offer your audience can't refuse. It's all about the offer. If you are selling something your market truly wants, then you will do fine.

I see you made 6 sales.

That's not bad.

Now consider this - typically, the first posting sells the least as people are waiting for reviews. After your first group of buyers posts some reviews, you will then get more recognition the second bump.

On top of that, despite the fact that page views mean nothing, a lot of people almost instinctively click on something with lots of views. This also can mean the second bump gets more traffic.

Originally Posted by GameVoid

I ran my first WSO on the first day that it was $40

Since I am relatively unknown and was launching a new product, the new price did put a bigger dent in my pocket book.

I made 4 sales while it was on page 1, 1 sale while it was on page 2, and another sale like 3 days later which I assume came from my sig link.

Experienced people with great name recognition will do fine under the new price tag, but people (like me) who are new or peddling lower cost products will have to hope for the best in the much-less-trafficked classifieds section until we build up a rep and a list.

My WSO stayed on page one for about 15 hours, btw.

Thanks
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Justin Jordan

14 years ago

Originally Posted by ccmusicman

On top of that, despite the fact that page views mean nothing, a lot of people almost instinctively click on something with lots of views. This also can mean the second bump gets more traffic.

Actually, I do this, but not because I'm interested the WSO specifically - if something has a lot of views there's decent chance the person running it is making some money (granted, they may just be nuts and keep bumping) and is probably doing something right in terms of copy.

It's worth taking a look at them for that reason, I think.

Thanks

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

I agree that $40 is a good price so as a price increase measure, I have nothing to bit*h about, but everyone is assuming that junk offers has disappeared and I doubt that is the case. There are honest sellers who may have a great offer, but just can't afford the $40. Junk sellers that make good money selling junk will continue to sell ... with $20 less profit.

Thanks

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skibbz

14 years ago

Originally Posted by DrivenForMillions

Just thought I'd share my thoughts,

When I first saw that the WSOs went up to $40 from $20, I was kind of bummed out and felt irritated I wasn't notified.

However, in the last two days, I'm seeing the benefits of the increased price. Less low quality products, the good ones are staying up on the first two pages longer, and overall I feel like it's had a good impact on the results.

Well done Allen, at least for now.

- Brenden Clerget

ha ha..its called junk filtering.

allen is also smiling with a whopping 100% profit but all we ask next time to is to alert us

Thanks

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source47

14 years ago

I'm sure that it a good thing all around, but I was just getting ready to launch my first WSO. So a little shocking to hear that it's up to $40 but I'm sure that I'll make that back several times over with my first WSO.

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Charles Washington

14 years ago

Maybe with less threads like this the perks of the $40 fee will continue for longer

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Michael Oksa

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Charles Montgomery

Maybe with less threads like this the perks of the $40 fee will continue for longer

Hi Charles,

I was actually thinking the same thing several times during this thread.

But then I decided it's the Warrior forum and we are, in effect, talking about making money. Some people will interpret the results differently anyway.

Only time will tell what the real impact of the change will be.

All the best,
Michael

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LegitIncomes

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

Hi Charles,

I was actually thinking the same thing several times during this thread.

But then I decided it's the Warrior forum and we are, in effect, talking about making money. Some people will interpret the results differently anyway.

Only time will tell what the real impact of the change will be.

All the best,
Michael

And so was I. Too many threads like this, and we'll be back to a couple hours on Page 1.

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Paul Myers

14 years ago

Charles,

Maybe with less threads like this the perks of the $40 fee will continue for longer

[chuckle] I was just going to mention this. Of course, with people emailing their lists telling them how much better it's gotten, that cycle will be even shorter-lived. And the quantity of trash will go back up.

Cycles, folks. As it gets better, more people are attracted to it. Such is the way of the world...

Paul

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LegitIncomes

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Charles,[chuckle] I was just going to mention this. Of course, with people emailing their lists telling them how much better it's gotten, that cycle will be even shorter-lived. And the quantity of trash will go back up.

Cycles, folks. As it gets better, more people are attracted to it. Such is the way of the world...

Paul

Why would people do this? What are they thinking??!! I can understand sharing business knowledge, absolutely.....but when it comes to the WSO forum, there's only so much it can take, it's a limited market as far as how many can be successful. Too many and it tips the scale for everyone (because with too many, your ad gets no exposure). It's really a micro niche compared to other areas.

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Lance K

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Charles Montgomery

Maybe with less threads like this the perks of the $40 fee will continue for longer

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

Hi Charles,

I was actually thinking the same thing several times during this thread.

But then I decided it's the Warrior forum and we are, in effect, talking about making money. Some people will interpret the results differently anyway.

Only time will tell what the real impact of the change will be.

All the best,
Michael

Originally Posted by LegitIncomes

And so was I. Too many threads like this, and we'll be back to a couple hours on Page 1.

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Charles,[chuckle] I was just going to mention this. Of course, with people emailing their lists telling them how much better it's gotten, that cycle will be even shorter-lived. And the quantity of trash will go back up.

Cycles, folks. As it gets better, more people are attracted to it. Such is the way of the world...

Paul

Regardless of the amount of discussion on the matter, I don't think it'll take long for people to realize that $40 for a WSO is still an absolute steal. Especially once the "exposure" thoughts get kicked to the curb by "ROI" thoughts.

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good2go4

14 years ago

I put my first WSO up after the change to $40 and agree that without much of a reputation it basically sank like a stone and only stayed on the front page for about five hours. When I bumped it I was on page one a bit longer, but not by much. I really need to work on my sales copy, lol.

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Lisa

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sodevrom

14 years ago

Hey guys,
Wanted to bump in the discussion

I myself was a bit skeptical when I noticed that price went up, but now I totally agree with that! Fewer scams, fewer "less good" products ... and of course ... the WSO stays longer on page 1

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Imran Naseem

Banned 14 years ago

Raising the price to $40.00 has been excellent. I think there are less junk offers, and more offers that offer value to the user. Kudos to Allen for doing this.

$40 is still excellent value to post a WSO - you can use the WSO section to build a list, make money - both frontend and backend - and of course build a successful business model.

The WSO section is powerful. Use it wisely and pay the $40.00 because it is worth every penny.

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humbledmarket

Banned 14 years ago

Definitely an improvement and comes with it's benefit but I feel kind of bummed out I didn't launch my WSO 2 days earlier. Recently created a WSO for my free giveaway; had it approved quickly(within a day probably because of the increase price). was going to pay now only to find out it's $40. Trying to evaluate whether I should go with a solo ad or with a WSO Now?

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Johnny12345

14 years ago

What I find amazing is that so many people are praising the increase.

Think about it. Is there ANY OTHER form of advertising you would praise if the price suddenly DOUBLED? If Google doubled their cost per click, eBay raised it's fees, or the cost of postage increased would you still be pleased?

I already see people who are saying that they're NOT going to bump their WSOs because of the cost. So, clearly, not everyone is quite as happy as they claim. Some people already seem to be looking for new forums and other alternatives to WSOs.

Perhaps one of the worst things about the increase is the timing -- it was done during a time of extreme, worldwide, economic hardship.

- John

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Lance K

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Johnny12345

What I find amazing is that so many people are praising the increase.

Think about it. Is there ANY OTHER form of advertising you would praise if the price suddenly DOUBLED? If Google doubled their cost per click, eBay raised it's fees, or the cost of postage increased would you still be pleased?

I already see people who are saying that they're NOT going to bump their WSOs because of the cost. So, clearly, not everyone is quite as happy as they claim. Some people already seem to be looking for new forums and other alternatives to WSOs.

Perhaps one of the worst things about the increase is the timing -- it was done during a time of extreme, worldwide, economic hardship.

- John

Yeah, the price doubled.

But it's not like it went from $20,000 to $40,000. It went from $20 to $40. The market says it's worth the increase. And I'd wager that Alan could double it again and the market would easily bear it.

Using the economy as a point of argument is a streeeeeeeeeeeetch. And frankly it doesn't matter. Demand tells all.

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Johnny12345

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Lance K

Yeah, the price doubled. But it's not like it went from $20,000 to $40,000.

Yeah, but we're talking about the Warrior Forum -- not a full page in Playboy.

The market says it's worth the increase.

Well, the number of WSOs has fallen noticeably. So it would seem that approximately half of "the market" doesn't agree.

Using the economy as a point of argument is a streeeeeeeeeeeetch.

Not if you're one of the people affected by it.

- John

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Lance K

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Johnny12345

Yeah, but we're talking about the Warrior Forum -- not a full page in Playboy.

Exactly. Warriors have been spoiled. They could place an ad in front of thousands of targeted prospects who are looking to buy for $20. Now it's $40. It's still a good deal...plain and simple. Also, the WSO section doesn't exist to serve sellers.

Originally Posted by Johnny12345

Well, the number of WSOs has fallen noticeably. So it would seem that approximately half of "the market" doesn't agree.

I'd say it seems that if those that remain are producing as much or more revenue for the forum, those that left are no longer part of the market.

Originally Posted by Johnny12345

Not if you're one of the people affected by it.

People that are hit that hard by it likely have much bigger problems than the price of advertising on an Internet Marketing forum (whether it doubles or not).

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Johnny12345

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Lance K

It's still a good deal...plain and simple.

Lance,

Apparently, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

If you were to bump every two days, that's $600 per month. That seems fairly steep to me.

But I'm glad you're happy. Keep your fingers crossed... maybe the fee will double again and you'll have cause to celebrate yet again.

The one thing we probably can agree on is that it's Allen's forum and he can do whatever he wants. So, in the end, it doesn't matter what either of us thinks.

- John

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FredJones

14 years ago

If one can afford to spend $600 per month per WSO, that simply means one has a tremendous product or a pure junk or something with a tremendous sales letter with not necessarily a great product but probably nothing in between as long as one is in senses.

If one has a great product, people would talk a lot about it and much of the sales would be word-of-mouth so I don't know whether 15 bumps a month would be really needed.

If one has a junk then one would still keep bumping up as long as the bump price is made up and then there is either some further monetary benefits or some other benefits (like growing the list) etc.

If one has a tremendous sales letter but not that tremendous a product, they may still want to bump. That is because, the letter will do the sale, but since the word of mouth will not be much, the seller will require a front page attention (in other words, a bump) which by the way would sale because of the great sales letter.

Mediocre or below par products with not too great sales letters will "suffer" the most from the price raise.

Originally Posted by Johnny12345

Lance,

Apparently, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

If you were to bump every two days, that's $600 per month. That seems fairly steep to me.

But I'm glad you're happy. Keep your fingers crossed... maybe the fee will double again and you'll have cause to celebrate yet again.

The one thing we probably can agree on is that it's Allen's forum and he can do whatever he wants. So, in the end, it doesn't matter what any of us think.

- John

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Justin Jordan 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Johnny12345

If you were to bump every two days, that's $600 per month. That seems fairly steep to me.

- John

600 dollars may or may not a be a lot of money to an individual, but compared to any other method of paying for targeted traffic it is cheap. Five thousand dollars is a lot of money to someone making minimum wage, but a five thousand dollar car remains a cheap car.

The $600 being steep doesn't concern return on investment. If you're selling a $25 product, you need to make two sales per bump to break even on ther ad cost. If you aren't breaking even after the initial post or a bump or two, why would you keep bumping?
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Gene Pimentel 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Johnny12345

If you were to bump every two days, that's $600 per month. That seems fairly steep to me.

And the profits derived are steeper too.

$40 for a classified ad in my local newspaper is steep. I'm lucky if I get one or two sales that way. Spending $40 on WSO advertising brings me substantial profit EVERY time I bump. So why would $40 be considered "steep"? I have yet to find ANY advertising program that offers better results and return on investment.
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Lance K

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Johnny12345

Lance,

Apparently, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

If you were to bump every two days, that's $600 per month. That seems fairly steep to me.

Who in the heck is going to bump every 2 days and spend $600 per month if it's not worthwhile to them? :confused:

Anyway, the way I see it, some people are lucky that Allen hasn't decided to drastically increase the cost of joining the War Room. Since War Room membership is a prerequisite for running a WSO. He could easily raise the price to $97 or more without much notice (or any at all).

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Johnny12345

14 years ago

Hmm...

It really wasn't my intent to continue running this rather tired topic into the ground...

My main point was simply that it was surprising to see people thank someone for RAISING the price they're being charged.

I've never seen that happen before... EVER. I just thought it was a bit ironic.

If Google doubled their rates, I'm not sure people would thank them.

It was just a casual observation.

Now on to specific comments...

Originally Posted by Justin Jordan

The $600 being steep doesn't concern return on investment. If you're selling a $25 product, you need to make two sales per bump to break even on ther ad cost. If you aren't breaking even after the initial post or a bump or two, why would you keep bumping?

Justin,

Good point. But if $40 buys you 200 views (clicks) as I think some have reported, that's $.20 cents per click in AdWords. Which is certainly possible with many niches. So some people are going to start looking at their options more closely.

Originally Posted by Barry Unruh

You have me really scratching my head in total confusion.

Barry,

I really just commented on things other people have already said.

And stop scratching... it'll get infected.

Originally Posted by Lance K

Who in the heck is going to bump every 2 days and spend $600 per month if it's not worthwhile to them? :confused:

Anyway, the way I see it, some people are lucky that Allen hasn't decided to drastically increase the cost of joining the War Room. Since War Room membership is a prerequisite for running a WSO. He could easily raise the price to $97 or more without much notice (or any at all).

Lance,

Obviously, it was just a hypothetical for the sake of easy calculation.

As I said, it's his forum. He can do whatever he wants -- and that's perfectly fine.

If Allen came out and said, "...look, raising the price is making me more money" then that simply couldn't be argued with. That's valid. Any of us would do the same. But if the goal was to reduce the junk, I'm not convinced that the scammers can't afford the $40.

If the $40 fee is working for you, that's great. Glad to hear it. Honest. Actually, that's good news for everyone. Because the 50% who have stopped posting WSOs (at least temporarily) were apparently a bit concerned.

Heck, if we had enough data, we could calculate an average break-even point and end all speculation -- but I don't think anyone has collected enough data to do that.

- John

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CDarklock

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Johnny12345

If you were to bump every two days, that's $600 per month. That seems fairly steep to me.

Whose fault is that?

"I'm going to bump every two days! Ooh, that's fairly steep."

So I'm guessing $300 a month was not fairly steep, right?

How's about you bump every four days?

Problem solved.

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Caleb Spilchen

14 years ago

Caliban,

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Whose fault is that?

"I'm going to bump every two days! Ooh, that's fairly steep."

So I'm guessing $300 a month was not fairly steep, right?

How's about you bump every four days?

Problem solved.

It stays on the same position, as some people mentioned.. theres 50% less WSO's now.. So sensibly you would bump 1/2 of the times you used to...

Bumping once every two days? nah

Caleb

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Barry Unruh

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Johnny12345

I already see people who are saying that they're NOT going to bump their WSOs because of the cost. So, clearly, not everyone is quite as happy as they claim. Some people already seem to be looking for new forums and other alternatives to WSOs.

Perhaps one of the worst things about the increase is the timing -- it was done during a time of extreme, worldwide, economic hardship.

- John

John,

You have me really scratching my head in total confusion.

You are a copywriter. This price increase should be a blessing to you since you have the ability to help a struggling WSO entrepreneur take their good product and make the $40 a great investment. Your copy would stay in front of the eyes of Warriors for a longer period of time, getting more views, and therefore closing more sales.

The price increase being done during a time of worldwide economic hardship makes perfect sense. If you increase the price you decrease the number of people putting up a desperation product which is going to fail. They will need to take a little more time in their product creation cycle, more time working on their copy, and they will get a higher return on their investment in the long run. It will cause them to think a little harder and deeper, which is good.

Once again, that plays right into your business allowing you an opportunity to get more clients for doing copywriting. Maybe you want to offer your services on a commission basis based upon their number of WSO sales?

Hopefully they were not planning on WSO's being their only source of sales for their product anyway. It should be an added bonus, not the only game in play.

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BeenThereDoneThat

14 years ago

I have an idea, charge $40 plus 10% of whatever the WSO seller claims he makes per day. So if he claims $1,000 per day he would pay $40+$100= $140.
The extra $100 can go my WSO purchasing fund, it's running a little low.
Stef

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Johnny12345

14 years ago

Originally Posted by BeenThereDoneThat

I have an idea, charge $40 plus 10% of whatever the WSO seller claims he makes per day. So if he claims $1,000 per day he would pay $40+$100= $140.
The extra $100 can go my WSO purchasing fund, it's running a little low.
Stef

You were probably just being facetious, but it's actually an interesting idea.

With a little programming, Allen could have modeled the WSO section after Clickbank. In other words, charge a fee to list it, then collect a percentage of sales.

- John

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by BeenThereDoneThat

I have an idea, charge $40 plus 10% of whatever the WSO seller claims he makes per day. So if he claims $1,000 per day he would pay $40+$100= $140.
Stef

What an excellent idea. Bet that would get rid of a lot of fake income claims real fast. :p

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Lance K 14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

What an excellent idea. Bet that would get rid of a lot of fake income claims real fast. :p

I had the same thought initially.

But IMO it's bad enough that income claims without proper/legal disclaimers are even allowed.

If the forum accepted a "commission" based on the size of the claim, doesn't that imply acceptance/support for such claims? Is that what we really want?

Also, buyers would know about the fee structure. So the fakes would still pay it. Because buyers would be more likely to assume it was legit since the person paid the additional fee.
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DavidMaddux

14 years ago

Originally Posted by BeenThereDoneThat

I have an idea, charge $40 plus 10% of whatever the WSO seller claims he makes per day. So if he claims $1,000 per day he would pay $40+$100= $140.
The extra $100 can go my WSO purchasing fund, it's running a little low.
Stef

I love this idea BeenThereDoneThat

That would have a huge impact on the income claims being made these days. At $1000/day gross income, surely the author of the product could afford the (one time) $140 listing fee.

If the author bumped the WSO every 24 hours, he would still have $860/day leftover, not too shabby.

Or so the author claims

The concept is similar to calling someone's bluff at the poker table. "Put up or shut up" kind of situation.

Best wishes.

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LegitIncomes

14 years ago

Originally Posted by DavidMaddux

I love this idea BeenThereDoneThat

That would have a huge impact on the income claims being made these days. At $1000/day gross income, surely the author of the product could afford the (one time) $140 listing fee.

If the author bumped the WSO every 24 hours, he would still have $860/day leftover, not too shabby.

Or so the author claims

The concept is similar to calling someone's bluff at the poker table. "Put up or shut up" kind of situation.

Best wishes.

Terrible suggestion. In many cases the author is not the one making the money. For example, I've got a neighbor who makes a killing in real estate.

Say I sit down with him and create an eBook, then offer it for sale. I'm the author, and the one selling it....but I'm not the one making the $$$$ in real estate, it's my neighbor.

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Zach Booker

14 years ago

Originally Posted by LegitIncomes

Terrible suggestion. In many cases the author is not the one making the money. For example, I've got a neighbor who makes a killing in real estate.

Say I sit down with him and create an eBook, then offer it for sale. I'm the author, and the one selling it....but I'm not the one making the $$$$ in real estate, it's my neighbor.

Agreed 100%.

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DavidMaddux

14 years ago

Originally Posted by LegitIncomes

Terrible suggestion. In many cases the author is not the one making the money. For example, I've got a neighbor who makes a killing in real estate.

Say I sit down with him and create an eBook, then offer it for sale. I'm the author, and the one selling it....but I'm not the one making the $$$$ in real estate, it's my neighbor.

Great example, I follow your explanation.

Just don't make any claims of income (in terms of dollars and cents), and problem solved. That was the problem in the first place.

It was just the creativity behind the idea that was so brilliant and noteworthy.

Best wishes.

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Paul Myers 14 years ago

John,

Well, the number of WSOs has fallen noticeably. So it would seem that approximately half of "the market" doesn't agree.

Which is what Allen was looking for. Same revenue, half the ads. Hopefully weeding out some of the less stellar products in the process.

Paul
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- Johnny12345 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Paul Myers
  
  Which is what Allen was looking for. Same revenue, half the ads. Hopefully weeding out some of the less stellar products in the process.
  
  Paul,
  
  That's fine. Allen has made his decision and apparently things are working out as planned. So this entire thread is probably moot.
  
  Regards,
  
  John
  
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peter.max

14 years ago

For me the $40 is still a bargain at the price. And I don't know any different as this was my first WSO. I saw a great ROI (which is all that really matters) for $40 and I am having great fun with it.

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Rich77sm

14 years ago

i had checked into listing one and thought 20 was cheap. just checked in again and its 40, still fine, but 20 dollar bumps would be better.
bet they would make more too!

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Lance K

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Rich77sm

i had checked into listing one and thought 20 was cheap. just checked in again and its 40, still fine, but 20 dollar bumps would be better.
bet they would make more too!

Leaving the cost to bump at $20 would completely negate the intended benefits of raising the initial fee to $40. The only good that would do, would be that Allen would make an extra $20 for each initial listing. The fee increase wasn't implemented just to make Allen more money.

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Brenden Clerget

14 years ago

Rich, I definitely think that the offset from the longer it stays up makes more than up for the fact that it's $20 more.

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bertuseng

14 years ago

I haven't launched a WSO since the $40 fee changes, but I am going to soon, so I will record my findings and let you all know.

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GameVoid

14 years ago

I just want to provide a quick followup...

Like I said earlier I got 6 sales out of my first ever WSO, which wasn't enough to make the WSO "profitable" at first.

However last night I put up new content and emailed the 6 people who bought from my first WSO. Less than an hour later I had more sales from just that mailing.

So even if you only get a few sales from the WSO, as long as you get names on your list of potential repeat customers it is more than worth it.

I know it's hard for a lot of people just getting started in IM cause they want to join the game as cheaply as possible. However you are going to have to spend some money sooner or later, and IF you have a good product that will attract at least a few sales and IF you capture your buyers email, then $40 is a good investment even for the newest guy on the block.

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BeenThereDoneThat

14 years ago

The real point would still have to be: If they REALLY have a good
product then the $40 would just be a drop in the bucket. If, on the
other hand, they are in the "Fake it till you make it" category it'll hit'm
in the pocket book. Let's face it, if someone is running a WSO on how to
make $273 per day (365) they shouldn't complain about a measly $40.
Stef

Originally Posted by GameVoid

I know it's hard for a lot of people just getting started in IM cause they want to join the game as cheaply as possible. However you are going to have to spend some money sooner or later, and IF you have a good product that will attract at least a few sales and IF you capture your buyers email, then $40 is a good investment even for the newest guy on the block.

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timpears

14 years ago

I always thought that $20 was a hell of a price to post a WSO, especially when I hear of the results that many/most of you seem to get for it. $40 is a big jump, all at once, but still not a bad price for what you get. And if it weeds out some of the low quality crap that i have seen and or bought, then all the better. I have avoided going into the WSO forum because of the sheer volume of crap that I saw there. It was looking like the same old rehashed $hit.

But I guess, bottom line, I don't need to worry about it until I get to a point where I have something I wanted to sell there. And that isn't going to happen soon. But I would say it is probably a positive improvement for the most part. Not that anyone really cares what I think.

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careybaird

14 years ago

I think $40 is a fair price and as most people who have posted a WSO will know, if your offering something good then you will easily get that back. It has removed a lot of the junk from the listings and that can only be a good thing.

A quick note that the item description when you bump a thread is " Pay For Promotion Subscription" - made me look twice the first time I saw it! Obviously it is not a subscription and a better description would help people i think.

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dagaul101

14 years ago

As long as the returns outweight the charge, $40 might seem like a bargain

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CarloD.

14 years ago

I don't mind the new WSO pricing, haven't put mine up yet, however I am seeing alot of people saying that their WSO was up longer than normal.

In my experience the amount of time my WSO has been in the top 2 pages has shifted significantly form bump to bump.

Yesterday I marked a WSO that was in position 1 at exactly 10:30am Eastern time.
At 11:20PM it was on second page in position 38.

So even though there was a price jump, yes less junk WSO's... but I am not seeing to much of a difference in time spent on the first 2 pages.

Again this was only done yesterday...1 WSO.

So I have to disagree at this moment that the WSO's stay up longer.... I could be wrong but at a glance watching a couple throughout the day says otherwise.

just throwing that out there, not trying to argue.

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makingiants

14 years ago

It's interesting that the WSOs have now increased (doubled!)
in price.

Let's see: the experienced marketers who have made a ton
of cash in their WSOs won't mind at all, while those hoping
to get started and make a few bucks are really frustrated-maybe
they were going to release junk, maybe not.

The experienced marketers once were inexperienced. They may
have been desperate or struggling, and their WSOs got them over
the hump. They had their chance-at $20.

Now, others will have to do it at $40.

It's a benefit to those who will produce a quality product, maybe.
The junk producers will still produce junk, just a bit less of it.

The bumping will resume to pre-increase levels eventually, but
for now there will be fewer of them, that's all.

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Kurt

14 years ago

Originally Posted by makingiants

It's interesting that the WSOs have now increased (doubled!)
in price.

Let's see: the experienced marketers who have made a ton
of cash in their WSOs won't mind at all, while those hoping
to get started and make a few bucks are really frustrated-maybe
they were going to release junk, maybe not.

The experienced marketers once were inexperienced. They may
have been desperate or struggling, and their WSOs got them over
the hump. They had their chance-at $20.

Now, others will have to do it at $40.

It's a benefit to those who will produce a quality product, maybe.
The junk producers will still produce junk, just a bit less of it.

The bumping will resume to pre-increase levels eventually, but
for now there will be fewer of them, that's all.

Some of us actually had experience BEFORE offering our first WSO 8 years ago...Which is what we offered in our WSOs. Something to think about.

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Ken Strong 14 years ago

Didn't we already do this thread?
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- CDarklock 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by KenStrong
  
  Didn't we already do this thread?
  
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  "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
  
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CDarklock

14 years ago

Originally Posted by makingiants

Let's see: the experienced marketers who have made a ton
of cash in their WSOs won't mind at all, while those hoping
to get started and make a few bucks are really frustrated-maybe
they were going to release junk, maybe not.

A lot of people would (and do) argue that this is not what a WSO is for.

The WSO was traditionally a place where you took a product that you were already selling, and reduced the price significantly for your fellow Warriors - to celebrate its success in the broader market.

That's really changed a lot. Many people (myself included) create products for no other reason than to put them up as WSOs. I'm currently working on my first product ever that's not designed to go out the door in the form of a WSO, and it's really making me nervous.

So I'm thinking maybe the newbie, the person who has no experience or track record, should be releasing elsewhere anyway... not in the WSO forum.

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"The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers

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Mike Anthony

14 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

So I'm thinking maybe the newbie, the person who has no experience or track record, should be releasing elsewhere anyway... not in the WSO forum.

Or build up a reputation on the forums first. Thats a positive I see. A lot of people used to think all they had to do was put together a pdf and list it and watch the sales roll in. Doesn't quite work like that and the new price increase actually makes people think about having a marketing plan beyond just writing copy and listing it as a WSO.

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CDarklock

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

the new price increase actually makes people think about having a marketing plan beyond just writing copy and listing it as a WSO.

When you do the math on it...

Domain: $12 a year
Hosting: $8 a month
AWeber: $19 a month

The WSO forum used to be cost less than doing it yourself.

No longer.

Another point... with WFH still $20, the newbies can always go there.

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"The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers

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LegitIncomes

14 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

When you do the math on it...

Domain: $12 a year
Hosting: $8 a month
AWeber: $19 a month

The WSO forum used to be cost less than doing it yourself.

No longer.

Another point... with WFH still $20, the newbies can always go there.

What is WFH?

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Rob Howard 14 years ago

Originally Posted by LegitIncomes

What is WFH?

Warrior For Hire section of the forum, I believe.

It's 20 dollars to post services.

Rob
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Rob Thayer

14 years ago

In case any of you are interested in how long it took a WSO to go from bump to Page 3 prior to the price increase, I did keep some records. Here are a few...

9/14 - Bumped @ 5:35am - Page 3 @ 8:00pm - ~14.5 hours
9/13 - Bumped @ 5:31am - Page 3 @ 5:30pm - ~12 hours
9/10 - Bumped @ 6:30am - Page 3 @ 9:30am (Next Day) - ~27 hours
9/09 - Bumped @ 1:42am - Page 3 @ 3:00pm - ~13 hours
9/08 - Bumped @ 5:39am - Page 3 @ 9:50pm - ~16 hours
9/06 - Bumped @ 6:54am - Page 3 @ 11:30pm - ~16.5 hours
9/04 - Bumped @ 6:09am - Page 3 @ 2:20am (Next Day) - ~20 hours
9/03 - Bumped @ 5:48am - Page 3 @ 10:00pm - ~16 hours

I have a lot more, but this is a decent sample.

Works out to about 17 hours on average. If WSOs are staying on page one for that long now, then exposure on page one is about double what it was before.

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humbledmarket

Banned 14 years ago

i'm only afraid that this might become the norm and the wsos fet flooded once more

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smplylvn

14 years ago

When I first noticed the new price I was a little taken back, but I posted my WSO Sunday afternoon and it was on page one most of the day. Moved to page two Monday and then around noon on Tuesday I received the email that my WSO was eligiable to bump.

My first WSO I released back in June was on page one for maybe a couple hours and was eligible to bump the next morning.

I am pretty pleased that it is staying on the first couple pages. It might cost a little bit more but the value is much better now!

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careybaird 14 years ago

Originally Posted by smplylvn

Moved to page two Monday and then around noon on Tuesday I received the email that my WSO was eligiable to bump.

What do you have to do to get email notifications for this, or is this a new thing?
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- CDarklock 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by careybaird
  
  What do you have to do to get email notifications for this, or is this a new thing?
  
  That's part of WSO Pro, over at Mike Lantz's WarriorPlus.com site.
  
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  "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
  
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  careybaird 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by CDarklock
  
  That's part of WSO Pro, over at Mike Lantz's WarriorPlus.com site.
  
  Wow looks great, thanks for the tip
  
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  Owner of:
  
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  CDarklock 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by careybaird
  
  Wow looks great, thanks for the tip
  
  The stats on WSO Pro are great, too. You'll be spoiled by them in no time. :p
  
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  "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
  
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WSO for $40 = Good thing, preliminary impression

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