Is This All There is to Properly Treating a List?

37 replies
1. Friendly welcome message
2. Series of emails conveying information of value to the user
3. Occasional product placement
Repeat 2&3
#list #properly #treating
  • Profile picture of the author thebitbotdotcom
    That's pretty much how I see it. Always add plenty of value. Sell every once in a while. I know for me personally, hard sellers only get immediately unsubscribed.
    Signature
    Do Your Copywriting Skills Suck?

    Let Us Help You Develop Your Writing Skills!

    Submit Guest Posts With [ TheBitBot.Com ]
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2662387].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Britt Malka
    Not all, I think. The way you do "2. Series of emails conveying information of value to the user" matters a lot.

    Be personal. Have your own style. Let people know and recognize you. Relate to them.
    Signature
    *** Idea Factory ***
    9 Simple & Fun Ways to Come Up With Ideas for Non-Fiction Books

    >>> Click here to get immediate access <<<

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2662398].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author JoshuaG
      Originally Posted by Britt Malka View Post

      Not all, I think. The way you do "2. Series of emails conveying information of value to the user" matters a lot.

      Be personal. Have your own style. Let people know and recognize you. Relate to them.
      Should we always try to be personal?
      I mean lots of big organizations such as ebay aren't.

      What if someone were to take a more "corporate" approach?
      How does that sort of thing work?
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2662420].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by JoshuaG View Post

        Should we always try to be personal?
        I mean lots of big organizations such as ebay aren't.
        Are you a big organisation such as eBay?
        Signature
        "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2662517].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author JoshuaG
          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

          Are you a big organisation such as eBay?
          I plan on having enough users that I feel a similar approach would be warranted and worth exploring. My business model is similar.
          Signature

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2662545].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
            Originally Posted by JoshuaG View Post

            I plan on having enough users that I feel a similar approach would be warranted and worth exploring. My business model is similar.
            That was not the question.

            ARE YOU a big organisation like eBay?

            Because when you are, then you can do what eBay does and expect the same results.

            Until then, you cannot run your small business like a large multinational corporation, and you will do more harm than good if you insist on trying.
            Signature
            "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2662574].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author JoshuaG
              Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

              That was not the question.

              ARE YOU a big organisation like eBay?

              Because when you are, then you can do what eBay does and expect the same results.

              Until then, you cannot run your small business like a large multinational corporation, and you will do more harm than good if you insist on trying.
              I agree that you cannot run your small business like a "large multinational corporation".

              But does that mean communicating with your list using a similar style is a recipe for failure?


              Besides anything else, for the sake of conversation, interest, the future, and etc. I think it would be good to try and understand this style of promotion and why some big organizations go this route.

              Also, just some food for thought:

              There are big organizations that do try to keep things personal. Which leads me to wonder if how you approach your list has to more to do with the kind of service you offering and what users of that service have come to expect rather then anything else.
              Signature

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2662745].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                Originally Posted by JoshuaG View Post

                Which leads me to wonder if how you approach your list has to more to do with the kind of service you offering and what users of that service have come to expect rather then anything else.
                Precisely.

                So when you act like a big corporate organisation, they're going to have the same expectations of you that they have of a big corporate organisation.

                I suggest you take very close look at what those expectations are, and whether you can consistently meet them.
                Signature
                "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2664145].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author JoshuaG
                  Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

                  Precisely.

                  So when you act like a big corporate organisation, they're going to have the same expectations of you that they have of a big corporate organisation.

                  I suggest you take very close look at what those expectations are, and whether you can consistently meet them.
                  I agree, you've got to keep up with expectations.
                  Signature

                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2664343].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author drmani
                I'll preface this comment with a statement that I've been building and
                marketing with email lists since 1996, and have been a keen student of
                the subject through the entire period.

                Originally Posted by JoshuaG View Post

                Besides anything else, for the sake of conversation, interest, the future, and
                etc. I think it would be good to try and understand this style of promotion and
                why some big organizations go this route.

                Also, just some food for thought:

                There are big organizations that do try to keep things personal. Which leads me
                to wonder if how you approach your list has to more to do with the kind of
                service you offering and what users of that service have come to expect rather
                then anything else.
                I'm reading "Predictably Irrational" by Dan Ariely, and last night came across
                an interesting passge relevant to this point.

                It's the distinction between 'social' norms, and 'business' norms.

                'Social' norms work on the principle of social interactions, where we, as a
                collective, are inter-dependent and need others' help for some things - and
                in turn help others. Doing such things is a 'labor of love', with no price
                tag to the services. Indeed, placing a price on it, explictly or otherwise,
                takes it into the sphere or 'business' norms.

                'Business' norms are plainer 'value for money' transactions, where price paid
                or asked for determines the nature of effort/quality put in. Ariely suggests
                that when business tries to get touchy/feely through taking transactions
                towards 'social' norms, and then is forced to crack down on defaulters or
                otherwise move the transaction towards 'business' norms, the relationship
                between client and business CRACKS UP!

                Interesting concept. And might suggest there's more to successful list
                management (from the perspective of a business owner) than merely 'building
                relationships' through 'getting personal'.

                For some, it's a fantastic strategy - as long as it can be carried through and
                sustained, it can bond clients with fierce loyalty to the business.

                For others, it could be disastrous - and there financial profitability may stem
                from taking a more impersonal approach, which they can then sustain, keeping
                the entire relationship within 'business' norms.

                So obviously there's no "have to do this" or "have to do that", but more of
                finding out what approach best fits your business and goals, one that you
                can manage and sustain over the LONG term, and then apply it to your list
                marketing efforts.

                My 2 cents (with 1.4 of them credited to Ariely!)

                All success
                Dr.Mani
                Signature
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2664725].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author TK1
                  I have only one: I mail people ONLY if I send them GOOD & FREE value, I would never pitch
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2666004].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author KEKilpatrick
          Originally Posted by JoshuaG View Post

          Should we always try to be personal?
          I mean lots of big organizations such as ebay aren't.

          What if someone were to take a more "corporate" approach?
          How does that sort of thing work?
          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

          Are you a big organisation such as eBay?
          I guess it would depend on your business model. Even though I work for a multimillion corporation (my day job, not IM related) our customers want to know that they are dealing with a real person who cares about THEIR business, they do not want to feel like they are dealing with a "big" company that only sees them as a number.
          Signature

          “Until the 20th century, reality was everything humans could touch, smell, see and hear. Since the initial publication of the charged electromagnetic spectrum, humans learned that what they can touch, smell, see, and hear…is less than one millionth of reality”

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2662598].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author JoshuaG
            Originally Posted by KEKilpatrick View Post

            I guess it would depend on your business model. Even though I work for a multimillion corporation (my day job, not IM related) our customers want to know that they are dealing with a real person who cares about THEIR business, they do not want to feel like they are dealing with a "big" company that only sees them as a number.
            Yea, I agree. I think the business model does have a lot to do with it.

            And sure, everyone in B2B wants to know they are dealing with a real person.

            But I would challenge the idea that people feel they are being treated as a number when they are not addressed from a "personable" perspective.
            (again very business model dependent)
            Signature

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2662775].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
    PLUS: frequent free goodies with no pressure to buy anything.
    (keeps people subscribed)
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2662465].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author JoshuaG
      Originally Posted by Loren Woirhaye View Post

      PLUS: frequent free goodies with no pressure to buy anything.
      (keeps people subscribed)
      Do you think certain CPA offers would count as a free goodies?
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2662499].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
    Properly treating a list involves thorough research to find
    out what they are looking to achieve.

    Then you look at how you can help them to get what they
    want.

    And always - always - keep their best interests at heart
    in any content and offers you make to them.

    Treat your list well, focus on serving their needs and they'll
    look after you in return.

    Dedicated to your success,

    Shaun
    Signature

    .

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2662488].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author mcmahanusa
      Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

      Properly treating a list involves thorough research to find
      out what they are looking to achieve.

      Then you look at how you can help them to get what they
      want.

      And always - always - keep their best interests at heart
      in any content and offers you make to them.

      Treat your list well, focus on serving their needs and they'll
      look after you in return.

      Dedicated to your success,

      Shaun
      I totally agree with that statement Concentrating on serving the best interests of your customers will always reward you.

      Someone once said, "To receive the most, you must first give the most." I have found that to be absolutely true.
      Signature

      Success is not to be pursued; it is to be attracted by the person you become - Jim Rohn

      Visit our beautiful gardens

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2662525].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Mike Murphy
        Treat your list like you are speaking face to face to them...

        Care about them and focus on what's in for them rather than you

        Don't assume what they need....ask them (Survey Monkey)

        Offer constant value via good information, discounts on products, JV offers etc.

        Give them a steady flow of reasons to stay on your list.
        Signature
        Guitar PLR - New MONSTER Guitar Video PLR Pack![LIMITED]
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2662561].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author petelta
      Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

      Properly treating a list involves thorough research to find
      out what they are looking to achieve.

      Then you look at how you can help them to get what they
      want.

      And always - always - keep their best interests at heart
      in any content and offers you make to them.

      Treat your list well, focus on serving their needs and they'll
      look after you in return.

      Dedicated to your success,

      Shaun
      Good points here by Shane. Do your research in your niche to know exactly what your viewers are looking for...then give it to them. As you progress through this, you will start to learn how to entice and tease your readers to build that anticipation...then you spring your promo at them in your next email.

      Travis
      Signature
      TEESPRING Student Rakes In Over $116k In Less Than 3 Months
      Niche Pro Profits - How I raked in OVER $120k in 9 months with authority niche sites...

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2662827].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Joshua, there's 'personable', personal, and "OMG, TMI" personal.

        As I see it, writing in a 'personable' style means writing like a human being trying to communicate a message. You can be friendly, plain-spoken and easy to read. Many corporate communications are passed by a wombat editor and a legal team, and between them, they often squeeze all the juice out of the message.

        Personal, to me, means writing like you would speak were you standing face to face with the reader. You might also slip in the odd detail of your life, i.e. 'next week's email will be late, as we're celebrating our anniversary' type details.

        The "OMG, TMI" style is when you have a 1,000 word newsletter and 600 words are dedicated to your kid's birthday party and your annual 'bend over and relax ' exam...

        Business-like doesn't have to mean stilted and sterile...
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2662972].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author JoshuaG
          Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

          Joshua, there's 'personable', personal, and "OMG, TMI" personal.

          As I see it, writing in a 'personable' style means writing like a human being trying to communicate a message. You can be friendly, plain-spoken and easy to read. Many corporate communications are passed by a wombat editor and a legal team, and between them, they often squeeze all the juice out of the message.

          Personal, to me, means writing like you would speak were you standing face to face with the reader. You might also slip in the odd detail of your life, i.e. 'next week's email will be late, as we're celebrating our anniversary' type details.

          The "OMG, TMI" style is when you have a 1,000 word newsletter and 600 words are dedicated to your kid's birthday party and your annual 'bend over and relax ' exam...

          Business-like doesn't have to mean stilted and sterile...
          Yea I agree with this, and thanks for bringing it to the table.

          I'd like to ask you this though:

          Would you ever send an email explaining an offer you had on behalf of your business rather then on behalf of yourself?
          Signature

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2663373].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author lamberw
            Joshua,

            What are the words that your market is using? You need to build a portfolio of these words as part of developing your customer avatar.

            Communicate using their words being authentic and in a personal way that speaks directly to him/her (notice I did not say them).

            You want to alienate your non prospects and make your prospects say "wow, he's talking just to me."

            Other things you want to think about for building your customer avatar are their fears, needs, desires, lifestyle, beliefs.

            Hope this helps. :-)
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2663446].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author entrepenerd
            Originally Posted by JoshuaG View Post

            Yea I agree with this, and thanks for bringing it to the table.

            I'd like to ask you this though:

            Would you ever send an email explaining an offer you had on behalf of your business rather then on behalf of yourself?
            I think one of the keys you're missing in this debate is the psychology of selling.

            One of the hot buttons of selling is reciprocity. People feel obligated to recriprocate good things (purchases) to a friend, mentor, colleague, in other words an individual. The do not feel so obligated to return favors to a business or corporation.

            If your goal in list building is to profit as much as possible from it (isn't that everyone's goal), then you should make sure that you set yourself up to get as much good will back from your list as possible. Having them connect with you on a personal level just makes it so much easier to do than if you're always speaking on behalf of a corporation.

            I feel absolutely no obligation to even read emails from eBay, let alone purchase anything there, because I know that their automated system has absolutely zero interest in my personal well being.

            However, I do feel a certain level of obligation to at least read the emails from several email marketers who have taken the time to provide a level of personal connection and good will (even though I know that those same emails are going to thousands of other people). They regularly send emails that give me a little glimpse into their personal lives and in the process educate me on what I can do to better my life. And, then, every once in a while they squeeze in a link to a new product that might just make that job easier. It's a beautiful thing.

            Personal is the way to go.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2663637].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author JoshuaG
              Originally Posted by entrepenerd View Post

              I think one of the keys you're missing in this debate is the psychology of selling.

              One of the hot buttons of selling is reciprocity. People feel obligated to recriprocate good things (purchases) to a friend, mentor, colleague, in other words an individual. The do not feel so obligated to return favors to a business or corporation.

              If your goal in list building is to profit as much as possible from it (isn't that everyone's goal), then you should make sure that you set yourself up to get as much good will back from your list as possible. Having them connect with you on a personal level just makes it so much easier to do than if you're always speaking on behalf of a corporation.

              I feel absolutely no obligation to even read emails from eBay, let alone purchase anything there, because I know that their automated system has absolutely zero interest in my personal well being.

              However, I do feel a certain level of obligation to at least read the emails from several email marketers who have taken the time to provide a level of personal connection and good will (even though I know that those same emails are going to thousands of other people). They regularly send emails that give me a little glimpse into their personal lives and in the process educate me on what I can do to better my life. And, then, every once in a while they squeeze in a link to a new product that might just make that job easier. It's a beautiful thing.

              Personal is the way to go.
              Respectfully, I think this is a negative way to approach things.

              I don't want my list to ever feel obligated to do anything.
              Signature

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2663736].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author paulie888
                Originally Posted by JoshuaG View Post

                Respectfully, I think this is a negative way to approach things.

                I don't want my list to ever feel obligated to do anything.
                I think you're missing the point here. He mentioned the law of reciprocity, and by giving first. The whole key here is to get your list to know, like and trust you. You don't want to be a robot and send out canned messages that your list will probably ignore or delete - what's the point of having a list then??
                Signature
                >>> Features Jason Fladlien, John S. Rhodes, Justin Brooke, Sean I. Mitchell, Reed Floren and Brad Gosse! <<<
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2663842].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author JoshuaG
                  Originally Posted by paulie888 View Post

                  I think you're missing the point here. He mentioned the law of reciprocity, and by giving first. The whole key here is to get your list to know, like and trust you. You don't want to be a robot and send out canned messages that your list will probably ignore or delete - what's the point of having a list then??
                  I think there was an element of that in what he said, but from my perspective he was talking about inspiring feelings of obligation.

                  Anyway, obviously this approach works in some markets and/or for some businesses, but I really wonder if its always the best approach.
                  Signature

                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2664041].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author paulie888
    You have to just be yourself in your messages, inject your personality and thoughts into your messages. Absolutely no "canned" or regurgitated stuff allowed here. Whether you're sending them information of value or promoting an affiliate offer, make sure you at the very least rewrite it in your own style, DO NOT copy and paste anything!
    Signature
    >>> Features Jason Fladlien, John S. Rhodes, Justin Brooke, Sean I. Mitchell, Reed Floren and Brad Gosse! <<<
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2663509].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author cheyne.machine
    Banned
    [DELETED]
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2663521].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by JoshuaG View Post

      Yea I agree with this, and thanks for bringing it to the table.

      I'd like to ask you this though:

      Would you ever send an email explaining an offer you had on behalf of your business rather then on behalf of yourself?
      I'm not sure I understand the question.

      Unless it's an automated message, like a payment confirmation or something, the message is always sent from a human being. Even if it isn't me.

      About the only changes I would make in that case would be to swap out some of the pronouns.

      Instead of saying "I want to offer you the following package deal", I'd say "We want to offer you the following package deal". Whether it's John or Acme Widgets sending the offer, I always want it to appear to have a human behind it.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2663559].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author LarryWestner
    Don't send too many emails per week, there's nothing more annoying than getting spammed from the same list every day.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2663861].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author JoshuaG
      Originally Posted by LarryWestner View Post

      Don't send too many emails per week, there's nothing more annoying than getting spammed from the same list every day.
      I definitely agree with this.

      Unless someone has signed up with the intention of receiving something everyday!
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2664046].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author samjesop
    Try not to make your list sound like the other 5453534 lists that are out there. It will likely be ignored unless there is some very specific, useful information.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2663947].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author paulie888
      Originally Posted by samjesop View Post

      Try not to make your list sound like the other 5453534 lists that are out there. It will likely be ignored unless there is some very specific, useful information.
      Exactly, this is precisely what I had mentioned above. No canned or regurgitated message allowed here. Think about it, if all you do is just send out the same exact messages that the others do, what IS differentiating you from the rest??
      Signature
      >>> Features Jason Fladlien, John S. Rhodes, Justin Brooke, Sean I. Mitchell, Reed Floren and Brad Gosse! <<<
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2663958].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author joelraitt
    you basically just scratched the surface, no not even...there are hundreds of things you need to take into consideration when building a list...

    1 big tip...use surveymonkey.com to find out what your subscribers want...then sell it to them $$$$$$$$$$$$$$
    Signature

    Work smart, work hard, never give up. Learn with me here: http://www.joelraitt.com

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2663975].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Kathy_T
    This is an absolutely terrific discussion thread! It has validated my own feelings about how to treat a list. I couldn't ask for better education in internet marketing than on this forum!

    Even though I've had websites for 3 years, using SEO primarily for my traffic, I'm in the process of creating my very first real internet marketing campaign. I have never had a list!

    This will be completely unrelated to my current websites, so there is a great big ol' learning curve I'm on - and (Gulp!) I'll be getting my very first autoresponder account and preparing the emails.

    My gut feeling has been to write say 5 or so emails in the campaign to go out with NOTHING but valuable content and something that will benefit them, and THEN, in the 5th or 6th one I thought I would have one with a "soft" sell later in the email (maybe a PS?) - something along the lines of "I thought you might be interested in having a look at this thing that I found...blah blah..." but nothing that screams "buy me now!" And certainly not until I had some kind of relationship with the list and they come to know my style.

    I developed this gut feeling after getting tired of seeing emails that come to me from people where every single email is a "Wow! I just came across this and you NEED to see it NOW!" type of message with their next best slice of bread that they're selling. I find that I just ignore them now, and ultimately unsubscribe from the list.

    So thank you all, again for helping me understand more than I could have otherwise!
    Kath
    Signature

    I love Self Development & Writing! I speak from my heart. My book "Personal Goal Planning Strategies - A Guide to Understanding & Planning Goals & Objectives" is available at Self Development Strategies Please visit to learn more! I used to be a career & life coach, and these techniques have worked for my clients for years.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2664137].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author drmani
    Originally Posted by JoshuaG View Post

    1. Friendly welcome message
    2. Series of emails conveying information of value to the user
    3. Occasional product placement
    Repeat 2&3

    That's a FANTASTIC concise summation of the core of list/ezine
    marketing!

    Let me try and distill it down even further to its essence:

    Respect your subscribers' needs and best interests. Always.

    The rest is mere detail!



    All success
    Dr.Mani
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2664714].message }}

Trending Topics