Is Opt In On Purchase Wrong - YOUR VIEWS PLEASE?

It's up to you how you run YOUR business.

Personally, I prefer to direct buyers to the download page so
they can access their product right away - whether they
subscribe to the buyer's list or not.

I place an opt-in form at the top of the page - pre-populated
with their name and e-mail address and offer them an additional
bonus for free - as an incentive to subscribe.

I don't like being forced to join a list before I can access a
product I've paid for and I won't do that to my valued customers
either.

That's how I do it anyways - each to their own.

Dedicated to your success,

Shaun

Hey John,
It has been discussed here before and a bunch of warriors said they don't like it. I do it. But because of some complaints I got myself I figured they would refund if their not happy so I put a link right below my optin that says something like "or click here to go right to the download page and skip our updates about new bonuses we may add".

Keeps everyone happy!

Mike

I agree with Shaun. If they've bought the product then don't force opt-in. Rather have an opt-in on the downloads page with an additional bonus or incentive. Or ask the to register for updates and alerts to the existing product

If you're going to force me to opt-in in order to download the product, then you need to tell me that on the sales page. Otherwise you're violating the terms of the agreement, which, to my understanding, are I pay - you ship. Not I pay - I sign up to your list - you ship.

I have had other experiences where I wanted the product and definitely wanted to be on the list (I bought Paul Myers WSO). And there was no optin at all and I could not find one. So I think to give the choice increases your credibility and you will get more respect and the opt-in.

Something to consider. If you are using PayPal for processing the sale, it violates their TOS and they will shut down your account if the buyer pushes the issue.

Not sure about other processors.

The one way that seems to work well, is if it's a good product, then add a form to the download page with info about keeping up to date with new developments and possibly a special bonus. Clients I have do this very effectively.

Thanks,

John

What I may do is put the email form on my sales pages then take them to a payment page

or I could put a statement on my sales page making it clear that opt in is required.

Has anyone tried doing either of these?

John

OR if you're seriously worried about complaints etc. you can keep it the way it is, but add a small link under your opt-in box saying something along the lines of:

"Click here if you don't want to subscribe
NB! By not subscribing you will NOT get any of the free product updates I release"

Why not do it like all major vendors do? Every major shopping cart has a purchser's form to enter their details before they are taken to the checkout. So if you are going to collect details then thats best way to g about it.

If collecting customer details and building a buyers database is not your primary concern then use a script that will email your clients directly with access details - the email is sent to their paymnt processor's email i.e paypal@customersdomain.com.

Ethically there is nothing wrong in collecting and building a customer/buyers database as long as it is done openly and transparently. and in my opinion shopping carts are the best method to use in comparison to slapping an opt-in form after the checkout and delivery point.

I can understand why folks would have issues with the opt-in method model. After all, Walmart doesn't have an information desk on the way out collecting customer details from every customer do they?

When someone buys something from any major retailer, do they force someone to opt-in to the list?

no

But somehow that person ends up on the email distribution list.

OMG! An ecommerce system that interfaces with an email list provider's API!

Who would have thought such a thing?

Gotta agree with those who insist it be stated beforehand there will be a forced opt-in. Otherwise it's a bait and switch. It's not just about what's most profitable here, it's what's right.

That said, I usually prompt for an opt-in with a large link to skip it if the user wants And then on the download page they have another chance to opt-in.

Cheers,
Stephen Dean
Copywriter

Personally, I like the idea of adding an opt-in for to the download page by means of which the purchaser can opt in to receive updates, support and/or guides for the product.

I don't see a problem with it. If they purchase your item, and they like your products, then I feel they will benefit from the automated opt-in.

Everybody is going to run their business their own way. Some ways will work better than others. Whatever works for you just keep going with the flow. I think it's better to have a capture page. That way the person interested in your product don't necessary has to buy your product the first time. They can sign up and you just stay in contact with them for a few days or a week. This is called list building. Any questions they have you can answer them. If they like what they see they will buy your product

This has been discussed many times over on here and the largest majority seem to agree that is is fine on free products but not ok to force an opt in to recieve something you already paid for.

There have been many great solutions presented in this thread, as well as all the others. The one I personally perfer, for more reasons other than the obviouse one, is to have a full membership solution running every site you own.

Regardless of if your selling a $5 ebook, a above $1000 coaching program, or even giving away a free ebook as a lead capture method you just can't beat the full integration of having people signed up to your lists, and moving people from one list to another automatically at the same time they submit the form that creates their username and password to access your member area.

Any decent membership solution will have this fully integrated into the system so its fully transparent and the customers are happy because they are taken directly to the product they just signed up for. To them they don't even see an autoresponder sign up form and it really is an added step that isn't needed given the availability of current solutions out there.

When you also consider that having a members area gives you more opportunity to cross promote your other products, and gives you more real estate for advertising your full range of products as well as having built in OTO features you just can't go wrong by putting everything you sell or give away behind a feature rich membership solution.

I have my system set up so that after a client pays they are redirected to our squeeze page.

They fill out a form to actually create their user account.

Two things happen.

Their user name and password for the account is created and appears instantly on the screen, and they are added to my Aweber list.

No problems so far, knock on wood.

The system I'm using maintains the download file outside the web area. So, after purchase the user fills out the form to get the download link.

If I didn't do it that way I'd have to agree with peter.max ... optin on download page for updates but be sure to mention in the optin box if you plan on sending anything other than update notices.

Like others have said tho' ... 1 complaint since 2003 ... <best NYC voice I can> forget about it!

I Don't thnk theres anything wrong with what you did, when I buys a product on clickbank for example, im forced to join a list before i get access to it. In my opinion its just clever marketing and its getting affiliates to help build a list for you.

And obviously if they have a good experience with your product, theyre going to not mind about buying from you in future as you have the on your list.

I dont see what the fuss is, if someone has an issue with subscribing to you once theyve paid, just download the product and then unsubscribe afterwards! Not hard to do really is it? So I wouldnt really worry about it.

Guys some great feedback I am really glad I put this post up and will be totally rethinking my approach.

John

Personally, I'd go with a optional optin form, you'll still get great conversions. Think of it as an added bonus to the sale but to be honest, if you've been doing it since 2004 with only 1 complaint then just carry on with it.

There's "wrong". And then, there's "WRONG wrong".

Adding buyers to a database is not wrong, imho. I believe even
stringent email rules do not forbid contacting a buyer, as there
is basis of a relationship as a result of that purchase. (I'm not
a lawyer, though, so don't treat this as legal opinion, please!)

The modality of doing this varies.

Some scripts like RAP (Rapid Action Profits) allow it to happen
automatically, only requiring a confirmation from the buyer if
your list is set up to be double (confirmed) opt-in... the
'squeeze page' is bypassed entirely.

Some vendors place an opt-in form in the process, and 'force'
a buyer to join a list in order to collect their download, which
has been already paid for.

A few offer a 'bypass' link on this squeeze page, with suitable
verbiage (e g "If you don't want to sign up for updates, please
click here to go right to your download page")

And others place the opt-in page on the download page itself,
either before or after the download link, with a compelling
invitation to join the list.

Not surprisingly, the last approach gets the LEAST number of
people to opt-in. The first works best in getting folks ON
your list, because it is almost undetected. The other two
options fall in between. (Yes, I've tried all)

Conversions don't like speed-bumps!

There's a reason email opt-in forms which ask ONLY for email
address (at the first stage) have a higher response rate for
opt-ins than more detailed forms.

The bottom-line, though, is not how many get on your list, but
how many stay on it, long enough for you to get them to trust
you and listen to what you say.

The metric to measure and monitor closely is NOT how many get
on your list, or even how many don't unsubscribe, but how many
READ your follow up messages and ACT on them (making future
purchases, or clicking links, or whatever you want them to do)

And so, to the 'right' way to do (what some believe to be) a
"wrong" thing - possible 'best practices':

1. Set up expectations on the sales page. "Click the button.
Make your payment. Register on the form with your name and
email address. Immediately get email confirmation. Click
on the link in your email, and get instant access to the ebook."

2. Use a script that auto-adds a buyer to a list, after first
letting them know on the sales letter that you're doing so to
send them updates (OR) making it double-opt in so that they'll
have to confirm subscription before you hit them with emails.

3. Offer a bypass link to your squeeze page, or place the form
on the download page itself.

I've arranged this in order of what I believe works best. Your
mileage may vary.

Another thing to keep in mind is that, though comments here are
indicative that auto-adding customers to a list is a BAD thing,
just like opinions on effective tactics like pop-ups, this too
may not be worth taking with much more than a pinch of proverbial
salt - and then, naturally, testing out for yourself in YOUR
business to evaluate effectiveness.

All success
Dr.Mani

I covered this in a blog post and provide two templates that...

1. Have an optin with a no updates button
2. An optin on the download page

You may download them and read my comments at:

Requiring Buyers to Opt-In After Payment | garriewilson.com

Garrie

This is 100% ethical.

I use DLGuard to automatically opt buyers into a buyers list. To avoid any ethical concerns here I simply advertise a "Premium Newsletter" as a bonus! And of course I provide them with awesome content too. Treat a buyers list extra well.

This will dramatically boost your open rate. Your buyers will value your emails more because they paid for them. My open rates are very high.

So yes, as long as you treat your list well, opting people into your list before they download is more than ethical. I suggest you use a script like DLGuard to automatically do it though. It's much less annoying that way.

Cheers,
Matt

I think in am going to go with your option 1 Dr Mani.

Although in the next few months I may implement RAP which will give me more options.

John

As a customer I don't like the idea of being forced to opt-in upon purchase.

On the other hand, as a seller, I take the middle path. I provide an opt-in form before the download page but customers have a choice to skip the opt-in page and go directly to downlaod page if they don't want to opt-in. They are not forced to do it.

If you are losing most of your customers because of it, then you just have to stop it. If a marketing strategy is not customer-satisfying, then it is not worth the while.

To put it simply I think it is wrong. It also may have aggravated many more people than you can ever know. You got one complaint but how many people would go to the trouble to even do that?

So now you have them on a "buyers list" what do you do next? You offer other products from time to time. Are they forced to optin each time they purchase something? I suppose you could have a different process for those on your buyers list but what if they find your next product through other advertising?

My strategy has always been:
Buying is voluntary.
Optin is voluntary.

It could mean I have a smaller buyers list but it may also mean that I have more long term relationships with people that trust me.

As a consumer if I "sniff" anything that smells like a marketer only concerned about sales tactics and getting me in their clutches even if I purchase a product I am forever suspicious.

I doubt if PayPal and others just dreamed up their restrictions on this. Like many procedure restrictions it probably originated with a high volume of complaints.

I will qualify my comments by also saying I don't think it is "black hat" at all just something I would not do.

Hi,

IMer's are not the only people building a list every business does it.
They key is that you do not make your customer feel like they are obligated to do something, when they already have spent their hard earned money with you.

Many software companies require you to "register' in order to have the full capabilities of their program, stay up to date etc...

When a person chooses your product over the millions of others available they should not be forced into giving up anything.

People by nature hate to be controlled and that is what you are doing by forcing an optin. regardless if you only received one complaint it is not proper to force anyone to do anything, you put your customer between a rock and a hard place, and no matter what business model you run that is not good.

Have a link to an optin page in the zip file or rar file allowing them to receive a special gift,receive your newsletter or whatever you are offering. Never make someone feel like your a shady person..... by forcing an optin you are saying to them O.K. now that you spent your hard earned money give me something more before I give you what you paid for.

In my perspective that is not your place to do as the download has already been paid for so therefor the product now belongs to the person your making the demand on not vice versa.

-WD

I personally don't like being forced to opt in. Choice should be given. You can incentivize people to opt in.

I have an opt in form on one of my products and I have never heard such complains.

If you have been doing in for years and this is the first person who complained, it's not you it's them.

I don't see why automatic opt-in is unethical at all.

Think about this:

A customer JUST purchased a product from you - this means they did, and by law, open a business agreement with you - and from what I understand, this gives them (the business owner) the right to contact this person again until either

A. The person opt's out. or

B. A few years have past (i'm not sure what the exact law says but I know it's a few years.)

This happens to me all the time.

I purchased a game last month and now I'm getting ad's for games in my mail box as well as email.

If you give the customer the ability to opt-out of your email, why the heck is it a problem?

You didn't require them to do anything, they purchased and was taken straight to the download page.

But here is a thought: What about those who physically ship products?

They now have not only your email address but your physical address as well. They can now send ad's for future products to both places.

And you HAVE to give them at least your physical address to ship the stupid thing!

And with physical mailing, you can't, from what I understand, "opt-out". I don't hear a lot of complaining about this?

So why do people treat their email inbox as a sacred cow? Like me sending you an email - after you purchased (you didn't even have to fill out another form for it) - is a brutal violation of your rights?

So if you feel that way, scroll down to the bottom and hit "unsubscribe". And if you feel I'm that unethical, don't buy anything from me again. I don't care, I'm not desperate for anyones business enough that I'll change every single practice that someone doesn't like just to please everyone. I'll do business with like minded people instead.

(BTW - I haven't got a single complaint, ever, from automatic sign up)

Rob

In my opinion separating prospects from buyers is a must-do, and there's no easier way to do it than to place a squeeze page after the checkout page. If anyone gets upset for such a ridiculously small stuff, chances are he's going to be a problematic customer either way and I'll be happy to refund.

I think an opt-in on purchase is fine as long as the person has an option to not opt-in. I use RAP and when anyone buys they are sent an email from aweber and then have to confirm to get on my list. They have a choice, and I see this as a perfectly fine way to do business. There will probably be someone someday who thinks that is some annoyance but I don't expect to be able to cater to every malcontent on the planet anyway.

Just for the sake of clarity since it looks like there are actually several things being argued for and against that have nothing to do with the original post...

No one believes having a list of proven buyers is a bad thing, we all want a list of proven spenders.

No one thinks you shouldn't add buyers to your lists.

Most people believe that forcing someone to join your list before getting something already paid for is wrong, and it in fact can cause you to lose your ability to accept payments as it is a clear violation of most payment processors Terms Of Service.

If you are going to require someone to join your list to recieve a product, you should at the very least clearly state this as a condition of sale on the sales page before they make the payment. If you only spring this condition on buyers after the sale that can be considered illegal in certain situations. In the U.S. it could be considered bait and switch and there are laws against that practice.

I know its beating a dead horse, but I'll never understand why people take the hard way around this issue when it is much simpler to just use a system that handles the opt in in the background and doesn't require the customer to go through added and un-needed steps just to access something that they have already paid their hard earned money for. In my mind it's just much easier to eliminate the step altogether and put them on your lists at the same time they access the product without making it a roadblock in their way.

Depends....it's not ethic to put people signup on your list just to access your product.I think that costumer will never buy again from you if you do this to him.

Stefan Ion

Just for the sake of conversation, when you're too cheap, or just unwilling, to spring for a quality system to manage your business professionally and deliver your products why should your potential customers spend their money on you instead of your competition who aren't going out of their way to make things harder on thier customers?

EDIT::

Btw, it makes no difference to me which system you use. DLG, BFM, LFM, SMP, EMP, Memberwing, RAP, or any one of the hundreds of already made systems with long standing reputations are there already. There really is no reason not to use a professional solution to manage everything you do online and to require your customers to manually do something that your competition are all doing with all the automated systems mentioned above.

I can understand why people would get annoyed by that. There's a script 'DLguard' I remember that allows you to automatically capture their email after te purchase which I think would work better for you.