Struggling To Make Money Online? Here's The Reason Why And How I Made Money Overnight...

43 replies
What I'm about to say below might piss some people
off...because it pissed me off when I heard it from
someone else.

I denied it. Challenged it. And I was successful....

but I failed.

Eventually, I looked deeper in the business of online
marketing and discovered the following thoughts:



Few business models you read about are NOT business
models at all.

They're gimmicks.

Not get-rich-quick schemes, but one-hit-wonders that
CAN work with enough effort for a little while before it's
obsolete in a few few weeks or few months time.

You see examples of this all the time in this forum and
all across the IM community:

"I'm ANGRY...facebook just shut down my most profitable
campaign and I'm out a few grand, what do I do?"

"I just got google slapped and I don't know what I did
wrong?"

"When xxx changed the rules, I went out of business
overnight"

I'm not saying this to bash systems that operate this way
because in the end, it comes down to a choice...

do you want to make money with the future of your system
in the hands of another business, or do you want to spend
setting up a system of your own?

NEITHER CHOICE IS RIGHT NOR WRONG!

Here' are TWO examples of online business that stood the
test of time since the beginning, and they are:

1. Listbuilding (in any niche where there are buyers)
2. Membership Site Ownership

With these two, no one can take your members or leads
away from you. They are REAL businesses, because you
have COMPLETE control!

YOU decide when you want to make money. YOU decide
if you want more members. YOU decide if you get traffic
to xxxx product...without the threat of someone stopping
that flow of traffic.

The downside is that with more CONTROL, there is more
responsibility. You can't blame a google, youtube, or ebay
when the $hit hit's the fan. It's YOUR fault. Because you
abused your members or subscribers.

There's LESS responsibility with the marketing gimmicks
because normally -- it's always "there fault"...and some-
times they're right.

Here are examples of "gimmick" business models that are
great for a quick buck or a surge or wealth -- and they are:

1. Facebook Advertising
2. Adsense blog/websites
3. Twitter Marketing
4. Google PPC
5. Google SEO ranking
6. CPA (cost-per-action)
7. Youtube Marketing

*notice many of these are not business models, but marketing
strategies people "rely" on...which is fine, if they could have
more control over what they rely on for traffic -- and they don't.

Want an example of a typical marketer using CPA
leads to make money using facebook?


Let's say the typical successful CPA marketer spent weeks
testing an offer on facebook advertising for mobile phone
leads and got it to work.

He's now making $xxxx a week and he's a happy camper...

until facebook decides to kill any advertising that promotes
cell phone cpa leads. Suddenly...

Weeks...maybe even months that wen into testing this to
GET it to work, became ineffective...overnight.

So, are there any methods to avoid? It depends on your
tolerance for the fast pace of the internet and constantly
changing rules.

Choosing to make money using traffic via any of the various
online traffic streams is "okay", just don't get upset when it
doesn't last for as long as the time you put IN to learning it
in the first place.

Better yet...funnel that traffic to a lead page or turning them
into members featuring products you own so if any of those
gimmick business models lose steam...you're still covered.

With those methods, you constantly have to be on your toes
and watching out for changes periodically.

Personally, I knew IM wasn't for me. I still make money in it,
but to me it's harder work to deal with knowing what I know
now.

Again, it's not a matter of what's better...it's just a preference.

I enjoy learning, but I don't like the constant challenge of
having to adapt to rules -- especially to someone elses.

And THAT is what makes IM challenging.

Stick with the evergreen online business models : listbuilding
and membership sites (among a handful of others) and you'll
enjoy the lifespan of business models that profit for you years
after the work is done.

Just look at people like Jimmy D. Brown.

I don't even think the guy markets anymore...but does he
HAVE to because of rule changes -- nope. He has a list and
a membersite...he doesn't chase the next best thing because
he doesn't need to.

Follow his exmple if not mines, because it's after looking at
marketers like him that made me money online.
#made #make #money #online #overnight #reason #struggling
  • Profile picture of the author rikkib51
    Originally Posted by

    [U

    And THAT is what makes IM challenging.[/U]

    Stick with the evergreen online business models : listbuilding
    and membership sites (among a handful of others) and you'll
    be fine for atleast a couple of years.

    Excellent post and I do agree. Your list will always be the best strategy to take for the long term success.
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  • Profile picture of the author lekkeropportunity
    I agree with you but, how do I funnel those traffic to my lead page without using and of those online traffic streams?
    I think it is more about having a STRATEGIC internet marketing plan in order to achieve your Internet marketing OBJECTIVES, irrespective of the online media vehicle you use.
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    • Profile picture of the author MichaelParsons
      Originally Posted by lekkeropportunity View Post

      I agree with you but, how do I funnel those traffic to my lead page without using and of those online traffic streams?
      I think it is more about having a STRATEGIC internet marketing plan in order to achieve your Internet marketing OBJECTIVES, irrespective of the online media vehicle you use.
      I believe Benjamin was trying to say that these traffic streams are valid for your site, but not to use them as the sole means of income.

      These things can be removed, rules changed, etc. But using FB or Twitter to drive traffic to YOUR OWN PRODUCT is the key. This is something that Google/FB cannot take away. Even if you lose your domain, you still have your product and your subscribers who most likely follow you to a new site.

      I am using these sites as well, lekker, but I am not relying on them as an income stream. My own website/list is my income stream, as it should be.

      Thanks Benjamin!
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  • Profile picture of the author Jacob Martus
    Originally Posted by WhoIsBenjamin View Post

    What I'm about to say below might piss some people
    off...because it pissed me off when I heard it from
    someone else.

    I denied it. Challenged it. And I was successful....

    but I failed.

    Eventually, I looked deeper in the business of online
    marketing and discovered the following thoughts:



    Few business models you read about are NOT business
    models at all.

    They're gimmicks.

    Not get-rich-quick schemes, but one-hit-wonders that
    CAN work with enough effort for a little while before it's
    obsolete in a few few weeks or few months time.

    You see examples of this all the time in this forum and
    all across the IM community:

    "I'm ANGRY...facebook just shut down my most profitable
    campaign and I'm out a few grand, what do I do?"

    "I just got google slapped and I don't know what I did
    wrong?"

    "When xxx changed the rules, I went out of business
    overnight"

    I'm not saying this to bash systems that operate this way
    because in the end, it comes down to a choice...

    do you want to make money with the future of your system
    in the hands of another business, or do you want to spend
    setting up a system of your own?

    NEITHER CHOICE IS RIGHT NOR WRONG!

    Here' are TWO examples of online business that stood the
    test of time since the beginning, and they are:

    1. Listbuilding (in any niche where there are buyers)
    2. Membership Site Ownership

    With these two, no one can take your members or leads
    away from you. They are REAL businesses, because you
    have COMPLETE control!

    YOU decide when you want to make money. YOU decide
    if you want more members. YOU decide if you get traffic
    to xxxx product...without the threat of someone stopping
    that flow of traffic.

    The downside is that with more CONTROL, there is more
    responsibility. You can't blame a google, youtube, or ebay
    when the hit's the fan. It's YOUR fault. Because you
    abused your members or subscribers.

    There's LESS responsibility with the marketing gimmicks
    because normally -- it's always "there fault"...and some-
    times they're right.

    Here are examples of "gimmick" business models that are
    great for a quick buck or a surge or wealth -- and they are:

    1. Facebook Advertising
    2. Adsense blog/websites
    3. Twitter Marketing
    4. Google PPC
    5. Google SEO ranking
    6. CPA (cost-per-action)
    7. Youtube Marketing

    *notice many of these are not business models, but marketing
    strategies people "rely" on...which is fine, if they could have
    more control over what they rely on for traffic -- and they don't.

    Want an example of a typical marketer using CPA
    leads to make money using facebook?


    Let's say the typical successful CPA marketer spent weeks
    testing an offer on facebook advertising for mobile phone
    leads and got it to work.

    He's now making a week and he's a happy camper...

    until facebook decides to kill any advertising that promotes
    cell phone cpa leads. Suddenly...

    Weeks...maybe even months that wen into testing this to
    GET it to work, became ineffective...overnight.

    So, are there any methods to avoid? It depends on your
    tolerance for the fast pace of the internet and constantly
    changing rules.

    Choosing to make money using traffic via any of the various
    online traffic streams is "okay", just don't get upset when it
    doesn't last for as long as the time you put IN to learning it
    in the first place.

    Better yet...funnel that traffic to a lead page or turning them
    into members featuring products you own so if any of those
    gimmick business models lose steam...you're still covered.

    With those methods, you constantly have to be on your toes
    and watching out for changes periodically.

    Personally, I knew IM wasn't for me. I still make money in it,
    but to me it's harder work to deal with knowing what I know
    now.

    Again, it's not a matter of what's better...it's just a preference.

    I enjoy learning, but I don't like the constant challenge of
    having to adapt to rules -- especially to someone elses.

    And THAT is what makes IM challenging.

    Stick with the evergreen online business models : listbuilding
    and membership sites (among a handful of others) and you'll
    enjoy the lifespan of business models that profit for you years
    after the work is done.

    Just look at people like Jimmy D. Brown.

    I don't even think the guy markets anymore...but does he
    HAVE to because of rule changes -- nope. He has a list and
    a membersite...he doesn't chase the next best thing because
    he doesn't need to.

    Follow his exmple if not mines, because it's after looking at
    marketers like him that made me money online.
    Where's the part where you explain how you made money overnight?

    I liked the post, but I was looking for the part where you made money overnight.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Benjamin
      Originally Posted by MichaelParsons View Post

      I believe Benjamin was trying to say that these traffic streams are valid for your site, but not to use them as the sole means of income.

      These things can be removed, rules changed, etc. But using FB or Twitter to drive traffic to YOUR OWN PRODUCT is the key. This is something that Google/FB cannot take away. Even if you lose your domain, you still have your product and your subscribers who most likely follow you to a new site.

      I am using these sites as well, lekker, but I am not relying on them as an income stream. My own website/list is my income stream, as it should be.

      Thanks Benjamin!
      Bingo.

      People treat those methods LIKE a business, which IS
      the mistake, you see.

      When someone teaches you how to make money with
      facebook driving traffic to an affiliate or CPA leads for
      quick money.

      Fine. Just understand it is NOT a business and will NOT
      last a significant period of time.

      The problem is that people who sell those courses are
      promoting it as a business model, and it's not. It just
      can't be.

      I have a product about ghostwriting to make money,
      but I KNOW it was never intended to be a business
      model because you're writing content for someone
      else to own for a one-time payment.

      But...it allows you to take the money to build on some-
      thing great.

      That...is the purpose of the thread.



      Originally Posted by Jacob Martus View Post

      Where's the part where you explain how you made money overnight?

      I liked the post, but I was looking for the part where you made money overnight.
      You liked the post. Thank you. But you missed
      what you're asking for.

      I clearly talk about what the overnight success
      was. It was more so a "realization" that led to
      "long term success" than it was like winning the
      lottery (which is NOT business).

      In a way... overnight success came when I
      stopped LOOKING for the very thing you are
      looking for here.


      It doesn't exist in the way you WANT it to, but it
      does exist -- and it exist in the way of building a
      REAL business.

      Go over it one more time if you didn't catch it,
      I'm sure you're saavy enough to catch it.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jacob Martus
        Originally Posted by WhoIsBenjamin View Post

        Bingo.

        People treat those methods LIKE a business, which IS
        the mistake, you see.

        When someone teaches you how to make money with
        facebook driving traffic to an affiliate or CPA leads for
        quick money.

        Fine. Just understand it is NOT a business and will NOT
        last a significant period of time.

        The problem is that people who sell those courses are
        promoting it as a business model, and it's not. It just
        can't be.

        I have a product about ghostwriting to make money,
        but I KNOW it was never intended to be a business
        model because you're writing content for someone
        else to own for a one-time payment.

        But...it allows you to take the money to build on some-
        thing great.

        That...is the purpose of the thread.
        It was kind of a joke. I got it the first time around.

        On to the next point though. You're part about ghost writing not being a business. I would disagree if the writer is building a list of customers to whom they write for.

        If you've got a huge list of customers who want your writing then i'd consider that a legitimate business. Not in the same sense as selling a product, but nonetheless, you're still providing a product to your list of customers...only you are waiting for them to order.

        In the same sense, a majority of offline businesses rely on customers to come to them, rather than going out and selling to them.

        For example, I owned a pizza franchise for several years and it was definitely a real business. But I didn't go out and sell pizzas. People came to me for pizza, and then I sold it to them.

        I get the whole premise of it, but I would disagree with certain opportunities that you don't consider a business. Adsense can definitely be a legitimate business... Not all sites rely on just organic traffic, in fact, many successful publishers do well with referral traffic, social media, return visitors, etc.

        Sure, your site might take a hit in the SE's from some sort of algorithm change, but that is nothing that you can't recover from.

        And if you've got several sites, you decrease your chances of being hit all at once from a shift in the algorithm.

        Brick and Mortar businesses often rely on certain types of "traffic", (i.e. yellowpages, doorhangers, flyers, direct-mail, etc.) If laws were to change and make it illegal to direct-mail coupons, and hang flyers on doors, business owners would have to adapt to make it work anyway.

        I get the premise and I agree with it in many parts, but I think saying that some people's business isn't a business because it relies on somebody else is foolish in my opinion.

        The fact is, many "real" businesses rely on other people's sources to get their traffic (customers).
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    • Profile picture of the author bgmacaw
      Originally Posted by Jacob Martus View Post

      Where's the part where you explain how you made money overnight?
      So you'll go buy the WSO's in his sig to find out the 'big secret'. :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author DianeBrandt
    You're really missing out if you don't have, or if you're not building a list.
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  • Profile picture of the author BarryOnline
    Really good post & I do agree with what your saying.

    List building
    Membership site
    Having your own product

    All secure, long term income earners.

    Things I'm building towords.
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  • Profile picture of the author thebitbotdotcom
    How about this. Use the gimmicks to build your list. Additionally, I don't really consider SEO a gimmick. It is more of an essential. SEO--->LIST--->$$$.
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  • Profile picture of the author MaxHunt
    Yeah, your methods will make people richer in the long run.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sheryl Polomka
    Great thread, this is probably one of the best threads I've read in a long time. Real, honest, get down to business advice which is what IS REAL and not all the other hyped up crap that is everywhere!

    Thanks Benjamin, you have certainly given people a lot to think about and inspiration that a real business can be successful if you do it right and stop looking for the 'make me rich miracle'
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  • Profile picture of the author MassiveMarketer
    Good post! I agree as well. Membership sites are the best source of income. You'll most likely have a higher security in getting income from this than any other method/style. Just as long as you please your clients, you'll definitely be able to keep them long-term.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author tommygadget
      Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

      One of the easiest ways to get traffic from those sites is for YOU to ignore those traffic methods altogether and instead focus on finding affiliates to do the same thing for you.

      Let THEM do the traffic driving.

      You just build a big customers list and sell them more products down the line. Plus, you are leveraging many people to do the work for you - which is what most big businesses do anyway (In the form of employee's)

      Rob
      This here is EXCELLENT advice. When you are new, if you create an excellent product, getting it on ClickBank for example and recruiting affiliates WILL be simply the fastest way to success. After all, your affiliates will be using THEIR lists to build YOUR list! What could be better than that?

      TomG.
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      • Profile picture of the author Digital Info Diva
        Excellent post and replies.

        If you're in any sort of "make money" niche, you'll have to have a fast way
        for people to make that money because that's what they want. They don't
        have time to learn IM or any of the technical stuff. They just want their
        money.

        There will always be new techniques that utilize a "loophole" to make fast
        money, but that's not a business. A business is a model that builds your
        customer list with repeat buyers. It's a model that is sustainable...and that
        is "evergreen."
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  • Profile picture of the author Darren Cottingham
    Originally Posted by WhoIsBenjamin View Post


    Here are examples of "gimmick" business models that are
    great for a quick buck or a surge or wealth -- and they are:

    1. Facebook Advertising
    2. Adsense blog/websites
    3. Twitter Marketing
    4. Google PPC
    5. Google SEO ranking
    6. CPA (cost-per-action)
    7. Youtube Marketing
    Anyone else spot the oxymoron in here? Adsense is definitely a get rich slow and steady scheme...unless I've been doing it wrong all these years!

    I would also disagree with the Google SEO ranking and PPC. I use both of these to drive a solid online business with over 15 sites that generates a reasonable amount of cash per month (about $29k last month). I make 80% ROI with PPC - it's pretty simple: I have some products, I bid on the keywords, I track the conversions and optimise the bids. It takes me an hour a week, maximum.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sheryl Polomka
      Originally Posted by Darren Cottingham View Post

      Anyone else spot the oxymoron in here? Adsense is definitely a get rich slow and steady scheme...unless I've been doing it wrong all these years!

      I would also disagree with the Google SEO ranking and PPC. I use both of these to drive a solid online business with over 15 sites that generates a reasonable amount of cash per month (about $29k last month). I make 80% ROI with PPC - it's pretty simple: I have some products, I bid on the keywords, I track the conversions and optimise the bids. It takes me an hour a week, maximum.
      Darren I agree with you on the SEO and PPC. However, Benjamin might be right about the Adsense. Not that it's a get rich quick scheme, it does take time to build up a good blog to make a decent amount of Adsense income. However, it can be taken away from you with the push of a button, just like many of the other sites that Ben mentioned. There have been a lot of people have their Adsense account canned and if that happens, that's your income gone. I certainly would never solely have all my eggs in the adsense basket!
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    • Profile picture of the author theory expert
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Darren Cottingham View Post

      with over 15 sites that generates a reasonable amount of cash per month (about $29k last month). I make 80% ROI with PPC - it's pretty simple: I have some products, I bid on the keywords, I track the conversions and optimise the bids. It takes me an hour a week, maximum.
      But what if google changes there algorithms? WHat would happen to all the hard work you put in?

      I think thats what Ben mean by saying it is not a business. More like a unstable business in a sense than one that can be relied on.

      Oh and how long did it take you to learn PPC and seo to be able to out maneuver google. It sounds good what you said, but, the amount of time you must have put in educating yourself must have been painful at first.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by janok View Post

        But what if google changes there algorithms? WHat would happen to all the hard work you put in?

        I think thats what Ben mean by saying it is not a business. More like a unstable business in a sense than one that can be relied on.

        Oh and how long did it take you to learn PPC and seo to be able to out maneuver google. It sounds good what you said, but, the amount of time you must have put in educating yourself must have been painful at first.
        What if they don't change their algo and you miss out on millions and millions of free, targeted buyers to your sites?

        Or maybe they do change their algo, but you have either anticipated it and planned for it, or you adapt?

        And the OP hasn't explained how to get people to the list optin forms and membership subscribe buttons?

        This point is actually the most important part of being in business. Unless you can tell specifically where you are going to get your customers, you won't have a business.

        I'll take traffic over lists or memberships if I had to choose. I can make money just from traffic, but try building a list or membership site without traffic.

        Lists optimize the traffic, but you don't need a list to be in business. Google made $200 billion+ without a list. And if the IRS taxes me on the money I make, it's a business whether I have a list or not.
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        • Profile picture of the author theory expert
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          What if they don't change their algo and you miss out on millions and millions of free, targeted buyers to your sites?

          Or maybe they do change their algo, but you have either anticipated it and planned for it, or you adapt?

          And the OP hasn't explained how to get people to the list optin forms and membership subscribe buttons?

          This point is actually the most important part of being in business. Unless you can tell specifically where you are going to get your customers, you won't have a business.

          I'll take traffic over lists or memberships if I had to choose. I can make money just from traffic, but try building a list or membership site without traffic.

          Lists optimize the traffic, but you don't need a list to be in business. Google made $200 billion+ without a list. And if the IRS taxes me on the money I make, it's a business whether I have a list or not.
          Kurt that's a whole different can of worms. If you are adapting your algo then I assume you have either mastered PPC, or, constantly in front of the computer learning and assessing endlessly. I made my comment from a "one trick pony" stand point. Someone buys PPC and does SEO that worked once, and, rince and repeat in other niche markets without having to change their original format. Now I am not saying anything is wrong with that (as long as you have other business ventures diversified).

          You have to start somewhere, but, you won't be able to sustain long term with just one source(although nothing is absolute). I'll say the odds are against you. It is the eggs in one basket theorem.

          SIDE NOte: I am about to do the same thing relying on one source of traffic, but, I do not plan on just relying on that one source over the long term.


          "one trick pony"-means you only have one source of income and if that source dies your up "shush" creek.

          One trick pony's -Mike Tyson, Pamela Anderson.....list goes on.
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      • Profile picture of the author Darren Cottingham
        Originally Posted by janok View Post

        But what if google changes there algorithms? WHat would happen to all the hard work you put in?

        I think thats what Ben mean by saying it is not a business. More like a unstable business in a sense than one that can be relied on.

        Oh and how long did it take you to learn PPC and seo to be able to out maneuver google. It sounds good what you said, but, the amount of time you must have put in educating yourself must have been painful at first.
        Well, yeah - slightly painful at first, but now an hour a week and consistently doing the same amount of business each month. As long as your IQ is better than George Bush you can learn PPC because it's not hard. Neither is SEO (SEO is just laborious). And it's definitely not unstable - no more unstable than my membership site which is actually quite a lot more work for a similar return.

        I don't try to outmanoeuvre Google because Google provides nice instructions on how to get the best results. I pretty much follow those instructions. Google's unlikely to radically alter its PPC algorithms, and as for SEO, I struggle to see how Google can move away from the 'relevance' model that it has. In which case, quality, relevant backlinks (as long as they don't look spammy) should always work.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chad Heffelfinger
    Awesome post!

    A whole lot of people on this forum need to read this post, but probably never will. I have been guilty of this in the past and can even fall into it sometimes now, but I am trying to build a lasting internet business that doesn't rely on gimmicks or one hit wonder methods.
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  • Profile picture of the author warner444
    You make some solid points. I know I have suffered from being too distracted on "shiny objects" and, as much or more, from trying too many different projects all at the same time.

    Interesting you mention Jimmy D Brown. I came across his stuff some time ago and briefly reviewed it. Now more recently I started looking at some of his stuff on list building. You are right he emphasizes the importance of list building a lot. I started in at Safe-Swaps this week and have been joining Giveaways again and also doing some list swaps.

    Jimmy does talk a lot about membership sites, I saw a video by him recently where he talked at length about them. Anyone who checks out his site and gets on his list now would probably get that video. It was about his review from 10 years online marketing and he shares what he learned. I highly recommend it. Its about an hour long and probably could have been sold, for the value given.

    He also mentions a lot about the value of creating information products and building an "Army of Affiliates" and I would like to vote that concept as a long term business strategy.
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  • Profile picture of the author oneplusone
    Originally Posted by WhoIsBenjamin View Post


    Here' are TWO examples of online business that stood the
    test of time since the beginning, and they are:

    1. Listbuilding (in any niche where there are buyers)
    2. Membership Site Ownership

    With these two, no one can take your members or leads
    away from you. They are REAL businesses, because you
    have COMPLETE control!
    I see where you are coming from.

    But you have to be extremely careful here.

    Both these two models will ALWAYS die eventually, unless there are new people coming in on the front end, to replace people who drop off.

    Thinking no one can take your members or leads away from you is not true, they will drop off, fade away and disappear - and unless you are consistently replacing them your business is doomed.

    I see it all the time, people think they have "made it" with their group of loyal regular clients, repeat customers and then they fall asleep and forget about the critical front end.

    Not just online, but offline too.

    But slowly, and surely they start to drop off - whether it is a list or a membership site, and regardless of how good a product/service you have.

    The reality is if you don't have people coming in consistently on the front end, you haven't got any business.

    What you are calling gimmicky is actually the front end, and if you don't have a front end - you don't have a business.

    If you have a big list or a membership site you may not get killed off instantly if the front end disappears, but you will die a slow death instead.

    The only advantage is, with a big list or a membership site you have bought time to find new front end sources if some disappear.

    The front end is superior to anything else ... lists, membership sites, the backend, repeat customers - everything else can ONLY survive if the front end is working.

    Not understanding that the FRONT END is the epicenter of business is extremely dangerous.

    A mistake I've made in the past, and not one I intend to repeat.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Benjamin
      Originally Posted by Sheryl Polomka View Post

      Great thread, this is probably one of the best threads I've read in a long time. Real, honest, get down to business advice which is what IS REAL and not all the other hyped up crap that is everywhere!

      Thanks Benjamin, you have certainly given people a lot to think about and inspiration that a real business can be successful if you do it right and stop looking for the 'make me rich miracle'
      Thanks for reading.

      This thread (as many of them are as well as posts) are just a way
      for me to remember lessons, mistakes, and what I've discovered
      in business. It's always a nice bonus when other people out there
      THINK about what I put out there -- positively or negatively.

      I can't say I've "mastered" what I talk about, but I can honestly
      say I make a great deal of money practicing what I preach about.


      Originally Posted by MassiveMarketer View Post

      Good post! I agree as well. Membership sites are the best source of income. You'll most likely have a higher security in getting income from this than any other method/style. Just as long as you please your clients, you'll definitely be able to keep them long-term.
      True.

      I can't say I can agree it is any more or less high security than a
      business model I don't know about that works long-term. It's good
      to always keep an open mind to the "what-ifs" because in doing
      so...I've discovered a few rare business model gems.

      Originally Posted by Jacob Martus View Post

      It was kind of a joke. I got it the first time around.

      On to the next point though. You're part about ghost writing not being a business. I would disagree if the writer is building a list of customers to whom they write for.

      If you've got a huge list of customers who want your writing then i'd consider that a legitimate business. Not in the same sense as selling a product, but nonetheless, you're still providing a product to your list of customers...only you are waiting for them to order.

      In the same sense, a majority of offline businesses rely on customers to come to them, rather than going out and selling to them.

      For example, I owned a pizza franchise for several years and it was definitely a real business. But I didn't go out and sell pizzas. People came to me for pizza, and then I sold it to them.

      I get the whole premise of it, but I would disagree with certain opportunities that you don't consider a business. Adsense can definitely be a legitimate business... Not all sites rely on just organic traffic, in fact, many successful publishers do well with referral traffic, social media, return visitors, etc.

      Sure, your site might take a hit in the SE's from some sort of algorithm change, but that is nothing that you can't recover from.

      And if you've got several sites, you decrease your chances of being hit all at once from a shift in the algorithm.

      Brick and Mortar businesses often rely on certain types of "traffic", (i.e. yellowpages, doorhangers, flyers, direct-mail, etc.) If laws were to change and make it illegal to direct-mail coupons, and hang flyers on doors, business owners would have to adapt to make it work anyway.

      I get the premise and I agree with it in many parts, but I think saying that some people's business isn't a business because it relies on somebody else is foolish in my opinion.

      The fact is, many "real" businesses rely on other people's sources to get their traffic (customers).
      Oops. I didn't know it was a joke

      But you asked a question I know many people wanted to ask
      but didn't want to come off as an amateur. Let's say you were
      speaking on their behalf.

      As far as offering "services" as a business...

      no doubt offering services is a legitimate business model.

      Michel Fortin is a perfect example. You're spot on. He became
      a millionaire doing it. He also saw the long-term value of writing
      for himself and creating his own products that don't require him
      to be there to make money.

      There's a fine line I KNOW is there that I won't bother to cross
      nor will I "generalize" to make a point, because there's no point
      to make.

      I will say that if you run a service business, generally you need
      employees to make it work without you while you to expand your
      service (McDonalds, Ms.Fields, etc). A service in which you CAN
      become a millionaire (such as copywriting) is a RARE exception.

      Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

      One of the easiest ways to get traffic from those sites is for YOU to ignore those traffic methods altogether and instead focus on finding affiliates to do the same thing for you.

      Let THEM do the traffic driving.

      You just build a big customers list and sell them more products down the line. Plus, you are leveraging many people to do the work for you - which is what most big businesses do anyway (In the form of employee's)

      Rob
      Even better.

      This is another higher-level of thinking when doing business
      people should consider.



      Originally Posted by Darren Cottingham View Post

      Anyone else spot the oxymoron in here? Adsense is definitely a get rich slow and steady scheme...unless I've been doing it wrong all these years!

      I would also disagree with the Google SEO ranking and PPC. I use both of these to drive a solid online business with over 15 sites that generates a reasonable amount of cash per month (about $29k last month). I make 80% ROI with PPC - it's pretty simple: I have some products, I bid on the keywords, I track the conversions and optimise the bids. It takes me an hour a week, maximum.
      No doubt about it.

      Still, it's common knowledge googles adsense team can shut you
      down for any reason or cause they don't (and often can't) explain
      to you.

      I also don't doubt your success in PPC. It's a good way to drive fast
      targeted traffic to almost any offer. But the risk is in driving traffic
      for one-time sales.

      If you're using the traffic to build a list, membership, sell your own
      product (list of buyers) you're in good shape REGARDLESS of what
      happens to the PPC algorithm.

      But dealing with PPC is like dealing with a teenage girl....

      it's "picky", "loud", and goes through it's hormone changes that are
      sometimes illogical and mean to the person on the other end.

      (no offense to teenage girls, I love women )


      Originally Posted by Chad Heffelfinger View Post

      Awesome post!

      A whole lot of people on this forum need to read this post, but probably never will. I have been guilty of this in the past and can even fall into it sometimes now, but I am trying to build a lasting internet business that doesn't rely on gimmicks or one hit wonder methods.
      Thanks for your honesty.

      It's hard to look at something that "sound" good and choose not
      to get involved because of it's hidden nature. We' are ALL guilty
      of choosing not to think more logically when making decisions in
      choosing solid business models.

      Our emotional side WANTS us to believe it's as easy as it sounds,
      and our logical side wants us to see the truth...most of us follow
      our emotions blindly which lead to disappointment when it doesn't
      work out the way we imagined it could be.

      In fact, it's nothing to be guilty about. It's just human nature and
      there is nothing we can do to change it, but we CAN control our
      emotions so we can SPOT and take action on business models
      that DO have long-term staying power.

      That's a challenge we all, including myself, face every day.

      Originally Posted by Sheryl Polomka View Post

      Darren I agree with you on the SEO and PPC. However, Benjamin might be right about the Adsense. Not that it's a get rich quick scheme, it does take time to build up a good blog to make a decent amount of Adsense income. However, it can be taken away from you with the push of a button, just like many of the other sites that Ben mentioned. There have been a lot of people have their Adsense account canned and if that happens, that's your income gone. I certainly would never solely have all my eggs in the adsense basket!
      Thanks for clearing it up

      Originally Posted by warner444 View Post

      You make some solid points. I know I have suffered from being too distracted on "shiny objects" and, as much or more, from trying too many different projects all at the same time.

      Interesting you mention Jimmy D Brown. I came across his stuff some time ago and briefly reviewed it. Now more recently I started looking at some of his stuff on list building. You are right he emphasizes the importance of list building a lot. I started in at Safe-Swaps this week and have been joining Giveaways again and also doing some list swaps.

      Jimmy does talk a lot about membership sites, I saw a video by him recently where he talked at length about them. Anyone who checks out his site and gets on his list now would probably get that video. It was about his review from 10 years online marketing and he shares what he learned. I highly recommend it. Its about an hour long and probably could have been sold, for the value given.

      He also mentions a lot about the value of creating information products and building an "Army of Affiliates" and I would like to vote that concept as a long term business strategy.
      Unless you care to share what video is, I'm interested in seeing it
      for myself. Send me a PM if you have the link.

      Originally Posted by janok View Post

      But what if google changes there algorithms? WHat would happen to all the hard work you put in?

      I think thats what Ben mean by saying it is not a business. More like a unstable business in a sense than one that can be relied on.

      Oh and how long did it take you to learn PPC and seo to be able to out maneuver google. It sounds good what you said, but, the amount of time you must have put in educating yourself must have been painful at first.
      The questions you ask are scary to think about, but they are real
      enough to consider.

      Kind of like looking in the mirror and asking yourself what the
      consequences are if you step foot in gangland territory with a
      semi-automatic rifle...and denying the possible consequences.

      Nothing...and I mean NOTHING is guaranteed to last forever, just
      look at the american auto-industry.

      I don't want to give the impression that any long-term business is
      forever. Wouldn't it be nice? lol.

      But it IS long-term, and you stack the odds in your favor getting
      wealthy if it's worthwhile (atleast in your lifetime) to pursue.

      Originally Posted by oneplusone View Post

      I see where you are coming from.

      But you have to be extremely careful here.

      Both these two models will ALWAYS die eventually, unless there are new people coming in on the front end, to replace people who drop off.

      Thinking no one can take your members or leads away from you is not true, they will drop off, fade away and disappear - and unless you are consistently replacing them your business is doomed.

      I see it all the time, people think they have "made it" with their group of loyal regular clients, repeat customers and then they fall asleep and forget about the critical front end.

      Not just online, but offline too.

      But slowly, and surely they start to drop off - whether it is a list or a membership site, and regardless of how good a product/service you have.

      The reality is if you don't have people coming in consistently on the front end, you haven't got any business.

      What you are calling gimmicky is actually the front end, and if you don't have a front end - you don't have a business.

      If you have a big list or a membership site you may not get killed off instantly if the front end disappears, but you will die a slow death instead.

      The only advantage is, with a big list or a membership site you have bought time to find new front end sources if some disappear.

      The front end is superior to anything else ... lists, membership sites, the backend, repeat customers - everything else can ONLY survive if the front end is working.

      Not understanding that the FRONT END is the epicenter of business is extremely dangerous.

      A mistake I've made in the past, and not one I intend to repeat.
      True. Thanks for that. Even I learned something for this post.

      The front end IS important. The problem is that people make
      their front-end the "business" which they swear by.

      THAT is a mistake. And people are mislead to BELIEVE front
      end sales IS the business.

      THAT is the purpose.

      It's about coming out to see beyond the surface of what is
      possible....to think beyond what we are told is true...and to
      simply learn to think for ourselves.

      ----

      I appreciate all your comments, I've learned a lot from many
      of you. Even the opposing comments made me think...I like
      that.
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  • Profile picture of the author zorus
    having your own product is like having your own rules
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  • Profile picture of the author seanicasia
    Hmm, I always had this notion in mind, and you've expressed it in words.

    Building a business that withstands the quirkiness of the internet world... now that's truly evergreen.

    Thank for sharing!
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Benjamin
      Originally Posted by seanicasia View Post

      Hmm, I always had this notion in mind, and you've expressed it in words.

      Building a business that withstands the quirkiness of the internet world... now that's truly evergreen.

      Thank for sharing!

      Yes. Yes. YES!

      Thank YOU for understanding.

      I suspect many people DO think about it, but DON'T know how
      to express it in words nor take action to learn more about their
      suspicions.

      I believe it takes a talented, awesome, ego-centric person like
      myself to pull it off.

      (just joking :rolleyes

      I'm glad I could help you turn that "switch" on. After knowing
      this stuff, money comes so easily it's scary.
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  • Profile picture of the author TK1
    I would like to add some things I ALWAYS rely on instead of MANY people doing this wrong AND all my consulting clients get taughed that by me, too:

    1.) Host your own videos AND if you want add them to YouTube and other video hosting sites, too. But host your own videos on your own page! It's A LOT more difficult to get people to your page than YouTube, but relying on other sites has the danger they delete your stuff.

    The other benefit you have is: If people watch your videos on your site you can market to them better, because they are on your site and you can offer them stuff.

    2.) All your focus has to be on getting emails. Talking to people via Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn is nice. Building a buzz around your stuff via social media is nice, too, but trust me it hurts to loose 5000 possible leads just because of any dumb reason. The same goes for message boards - if you use them for your business make sure you get those emails.

    I want to make clear at this point that stealing emails and buying email lists is in my opinion crap - and if you want to do it make sure you've read vincent james 12 month millionaire to understand all the trickery behind people selling email adresses of all kind (really nice read I can recommend you!)

    TK
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  • Profile picture of the author XToni
    Originally Posted by WhoIsBenjamin View Post

    Here are examples of "gimmick" business models that are
    great for a quick buck or a surge or wealth -- and they are:

    1. Facebook Advertising
    2. ...........................
    3. Twitter Marketing
    4. Google PPC
    5. Google SEO ranking
    6. CPA (cost-per-action)
    7. Youtube Marketing

    *notice many of these are not business models, but marketing
    strategies people "rely" on...which is fine, if they could have
    more control over what they rely on for traffic -- and they don't.
    You are right all the methods mentioned above are not business models, and how could they be ? Just read : Facebook Advertising, Twitter Marketing, Google PPC, SEO etc. These are marketing strategies that business owners should use (all of them together) to gain visibility for their business and drive prospects to their websites.
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    • Profile picture of the author skibbz
      Originally Posted by XToni View Post

      You are right all the methods mentioned above are not business models, and how could they be ? Just read : Facebook Advertising, Twitter Marketing, Google PPC, SEO etc. These are marketing strategies that business owners should use (all of them together) to gain visibility for their business and drive prospects to their websites.
      dont forget to mention the hardwork you have to put in to get great results...it just does not happen overnight
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  • Profile picture of the author dremora
    Look at all those guru launches for $2000 products.
    None of their traffic comes from search. None of it comes from ppc ads or facebook.
    99.99% of their traffic comes from the lists of their JV partners.
    Money is in the list!
    I use social media to build my list. I am not going to make a quick buck right now, but building the list pays off in the long run.
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    • Profile picture of the author thebitbotdotcom
      Originally Posted by dremora View Post

      Look at all those guru launches for $2000 products.
      None of their traffic comes from search. None of it comes from ppc ads or facebook.
      99.99% of their traffic comes from the lists of their JV partners.
      Money is in the list!
      I use social media to build my list. I am not going to make a quick buck right now, but building the list pays off in the long run.
      Apparently, the money is in other people's lists (affiliate's lists) according to your comment. As funny as that sounds, there is a ring of truth to it.
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  • Profile picture of the author johnl123d
    great list, thanks for sharing.
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  • Profile picture of the author dcharest
    Excellent post and replies.
    It's the first time that i connect to this forum.

    ByE

    Denis
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  • Profile picture of the author Dwight Anthony
    Couldn't agree with you more. Those are both excellent methods that I am working towards as well.
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  • Profile picture of the author sirtom
    This is similar to the other thread posted recently, about how "internet marketing" isn't an actual business, but a means of growing an existing business.

    I think you're right when you saying list building and membership sites are your best assets online. I ALWAYS build lists in anything I'm doing, since they are customers/leads I can always market to, even if something happens like Google changing its damn algorithm 11 times a week or Yahoo restricts direct linking.

    So much better in the long run.. Point being though: you need a business, or business model which you're adhering to. The traffic method or "internet marketing" you're using is tentative and could possibly be obsolete in a month, whereas the business model will survive (a list or a membership).
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  • Profile picture of the author ivanadee
    Yup.I agree.
    However,in IM, there are two kinds of business.
    short term and long term.
    short term will make us money but rarely automated and we can lose our source of income in a minute if there's something happened. But long term?
    as its name, will last forever.
    you can even give the business to your child to continue it.
    ^__^
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  • Profile picture of the author MWGrubb58
    Once again, you've said what needs to be said over and over. Sell your own product... develop a list ... create members.

    One tinnie, tiny list of just 123 just made me an extra $500 this week. I am not saying that to brag... but to key in the fact that you don't have to have a BIG list, just a loyal, responsive list.

    I've got much BIGGER lists that make more money, but when it is all said and done... if you build your business right, then ANY size list will make some money for you.

    Cheers,

    Millard
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  • Profile picture of the author jacksonlin
    You have to understand your market though.

    List building works well for some markets, but not others.

    Say for example spyware blockers or registry cleaners. Very few people really do care about their computer that much to read about it. They just want to fix the problems and get on with their lives.
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