How would you respond to this?

15 years ago

I would tell this kind of person the truth.

#1. You won't get anywhere with that type of attitude. In the online business, you have to mentally ready to move on no matter what. If you don't have a solid, serious, and positive mindset, you'd be better off not getting into this business at all.

#2. While there are free techniques that can make some ok cash, they aren't long-term business solutions. If all you want is a free business, then you are not building a real business. If you aren't prepared to invest into your business, don't even start.

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Resale Rights Ninja

15 years ago

Why would they even bother with an attitude like that. I think anyone can be taught at least one way to make money online. Sounds to me like they are lazy and cheap

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MarcusXavier

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Resale Rights Ninja

Why would they even bother with an attitude like that. I think anyone can be taught at least one way to make money online. Sounds to me like they are lazy and cheap

exactly. if they have that kind of attitude, they are literally gonna get trampled by their competition. so they'd be better off getting into another business.

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zenmn 15 years ago

Do not take it personally or feel to bad.

They want you to give it to them for free.
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- lilmechante01 15 years ago
  
  Wow! If this person is really being sincere and they have that kind of attitude, imagine what the rest of their life is like. Since Internet Marketing is dealing with people who can remain "physically invisible", I can see where someone would use the "poor, pitiful me" approach to try to manipulate others to give them products for free...we all know there are ruthless people out there who try to take advantage. I think I would rather point them toward products to increase their self-esteem (through affiliate links, of course...j/k). I don't think that I would even respond, because 1) if they're being sincere, anything you tell them isn't going to sink in until they get past their ego-led mindset, 2) if they are being ruthless, they aren't going to buy the product anyway.
  
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samstephens

15 years ago

This may not just be a straight negative attitude - it may be the result of massive frustration and shattered dreams.

It doesn't make this person a negative person, it just means they've been beaten down perhaps a few too many times.

One of the best things you can do is refer them to this forum.

When you surround yourself with like minded business people who ARE successful, then it can really build your confidence.

cheers
Sam

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Diana Lane

15 years ago

Originally Posted by samstephens

This may not just be a straight negative attitude - it may be the result of massive frustration and shattered dreams.

It doesn't make this person a negative person, it just means they've been beaten down perhaps a few too many times.

One of the best things you can do is refer them to this forum.

When you surround yourself with like minded business people who ARE successful, then it can really build your confidence.

One hundred percent in agreement with this, especially the bolded bit.

"I will always want an internet business that is real and free!" suggests to me that your subscriber needs an attitude adjustment more than anything. In spending some time on the forum he might realise that a solid business is never free, online or offline, and does require some investment - if not in large wads of cash then in fairly substantial chunks of well-used time.

Once he sees that it takes focused effort as well as the acquisition of knowledge, he might not feel like such an 'idiot' and might feel a plan starting to come together instead. I think he'd be far from the first to have his 'lightbulb moment' here - it's a very illuminating place

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seree

15 years ago

Originally Posted by samstephens

One of the best things you can do is refer them to this forum.

When you surround yourself with like minded business people who ARE successful, then it can really build your confidence.

cheers
Sam

I love Sam's attitude, that's why his DLGuard is so successful.

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tomw

15 years ago

Originally Posted by samstephens

This may not just be a straight negative attitude - it may be the result of massive frustration and shattered dreams.

It doesn't make this person a negative person, it just means they've been beaten down perhaps a few too many times.

One of the best things you can do is refer them to this forum.

When you surround yourself with like minded business people who ARE successful, then it can really build your confidence.

cheers
Sam

Wow! Finally a marketer with the some understanding, compassion, empathy and insight into human condition and the minds of so many MMO prospects. No wonder the whole forum speaks so highly of you and your product.

Thanks for reaffirming my belief that the reason we do what we do is to improve the lives of others, help them achieve the things that they want or actually need. We do it because we really care.

If I was in the OP posters shoes I'd send the guy my product for free. It would help him and I'd have fulfilled my company's mission statement or as Ken Preusse recently posted, adhered to and reinforced my "platform."

AND I would have probably gained a happy customer or even an advocate for life!

Win.Win. And a good, warm and fuzzy, night's sleep!

Thomas.

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Clark

15 years ago

Originally Posted by tomw

Wow! Finally a marketer with the some understanding, compassion, empathy and insight into human condition and the minds of so many MMO prospects. No wonder the whole forum speaks so highly of you and your product.

Thanks for reaffirming my belief that the reason we do what we do is to improve the lives of others, help them achieve the things that they want or actually need. We do it because we really care.

If I was in the OP posters shoes I'd send the guy my product for free. It would help him and I'd have fulfilled my company's mission statement or as Ken Preusse recently posted, adhered to and reinforced my "platform."

AND I would have probably gained a happy customer or even an advocate for life!

Win.Win. And a good, warm and fuzzy, night's sleep!

Thomas.

Ok, let's follow your argument and say that you'll give your product for free to the heart-string tugging freebie seeking idiot (<-by his own admission).

What happens when he emails you back to say that he can't complete YOUR system without purchasing some of the back-end products that YOU recommended to make the system work?

How much time are you going to invest in COACHING this freebie seeker who will email you repeatedly which, will take you away from money making activities which, by the way, also HELP confirmed buyers of YOUR system who require and have earned your attention to move on to the next level of their success while you MAKE MONEY?

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tomw

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Clark

Ok, let's follow your argument and say that you'll give your product for free to the heart-string tugging freebie seeking idiot (<-by his own admission).

What happens when he emails you back to say that he can't complete YOUR system without purchasing some of the back-end products that YOU recommended to make the system work?

How much time are you going to invest in COACHING this freebie seeker who will email you repeatedly which, will take you away from money making activities which, by the way, also HELP confirmed buyers of YOUR system who require and have earned your attention to move on to the next level of their success while you MAKE MONEY?

It takes no time or effort, or alleged distraction from money making activities on my part, to get one of my staff to give a helping hand to someone who needs it. However, I would not have to instruct them. They would just do it because this is how they work. It's why they are there.

It's called customer service. Customer service is the bedrock of any successful sales business. Customer service is the touchpoint between your company and your prospects AS WELL AS paying customers.

Great customer service is vital with regard to any customer acquisition strategy and methodology, just as much as any customer retention activity. Especially in today's marketplace. Especially with access to mass communication mediums and the means of influence open to all.

It takes very little to help out a customer or a prospect, but an angry and highly motivated individual that has had a particularly bad experience with your business, or was merely irked by the particularly patronising tone of one of your CSR's, for instance, can actually destroy it.

I could write for the rest of the week about this...

To put it in the simplest possible terms, in business it costs very little if anything to be nice. Being nasty can cost you everything.

Thomas

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PotPieGirl

15 years ago

Originally Posted by tomw

It take no time or effort, or alleged distraction from money making activities on my part, to get one of my staff to give a helping hand to someone who needs it. However, I would not have to instruct them. They would just do it because this is how they work. It's why they are there.

It's called customer service. Customer service is the bedrock of any successful sales business. Customer service is the touchpoint between your company and your prospects AS WELL AS paying customers.

Great customer service is vital with regard to any customer acquisition strategy and methodology, just as much as any customer retention activity. Especially in today's marketplace. Especially with access to mass communication mediums and the means of influence open to all.

It takes very little to help out a customer or a prospect, but an angry and highly motivated individual that has had a particularly bad experience with your business, or was merely irked by the particularly patronising tone of one of your CSR's, for instance, can actually destroy it.

I could write for the rest of the week about this...

To put it in the simplest possible terms, in business it costs very little if anything to be nice. Being nasty can cost you everything.

Thomas

Wish I could thank you more than once for this!

This is EXACTLY how I feel!

To put it in the simplest possible terms, in business it costs very little if anything to be nice. Being nasty can cost you everything.

Wonderful...thank you!

Jennifer
~PotPieGirl

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tomw 15 years ago

Originally Posted by PotPie Queen

Wish I could thank you more than once for this!

This is EXACTLY how I feel!

Wonderful...thank you!

Jennifer
~PotPieGirl

No. Thank YOU!

You made MY day!

Thomas
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Clark

15 years ago

Originally Posted by tomw

It takes no time or effort, or alleged distraction from money making activities on my part, to get one of my staff to give a helping hand to someone who needs it. However, I would not have to instruct them. They would just do it because this is how they work. It's why they are there.

It's called customer service. Customer service is the bedrock of any successful sales business. Customer service is the touchpoint between your company and your prospects AS WELL AS paying customers.

Great customer service is vital with regard to any customer acquisition strategy and methodology, just as much as any customer retention activity. Especially in today's marketplace. Especially with access to mass communication mediums and the means of influence open to all.

It takes very little to help out a customer or a prospect, but an angry and highly motivated individual that has had a particularly bad experience with your business, or was merely irked by the particularly patronising tone of one of your CSR's, for instance, can actually destroy it.

I could write for the rest of the week about this...

To put it in the simplest possible terms, in business it costs very little if anything to be nice. Being nasty can cost you everything.

Thomas

I'm with you... don't think that I'm not however, have you considered the impact to your business with your employees focussed on unproductive work?

Let's say there is more than one person you generously gave your product out to for free or maybe they gave it out because of your altruistic nature who in turn has tied up your support lines for your buying customers because they just don't get it.

For me, not every product/service fits everyone and not everyone can or is willing to be helped in your way.... one size does not fit all.

This is the process of qualifying the prospect for the product/service being offered which is essential to "closing the sale".

What I am saying is that there is an opportunity cost that will need to be factored in and if you are willing to give up sales profits and operational expenses to help someone who isn't interested in allowing their own money to make money then, that is your business and I cannot argue with that.

There is always a nice approach to breaking off a relationship and I believe that being honest with your prospect, really honest with them about the product not being the best fit for them is the absolute best form of customer service that you could ever offer them.

Giving the product out to them for Free when they claimed to be an idiot who doesn't want to spend a dime on their business is simply a wasted effort on both sides from where I see it and have experienced it.

Your mileage may vary.

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Jeremy Kelsall

15 years ago

Keep this in mind also....

Many people online buy into hyped up sales letters and programs. When they get them, the material is often "over their head". They then repeat the same process over and over again.

I've talked to many people that fit the above description exactly and they are all on the verge of giving it up. Whats worse is the fact that they somehow think they are not smart enough to make it work. Not being able to do something that you see so many others doing can be disheartening to anyone.

If I got an email from a subscriber like that, I would send them a personal email directing them to a forum such as this one or even to a good resource like the bum marketing system that Travis Sago has.

Jeremy

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Steven Carl Kelly

15 years ago

I would LOVE to have this opportunity!

I'd contact them and set up a phone consultation with them and see if I could get them on the right track.

Man, this would be GREAT. I'd love to attack that...

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SullyUI

15 years ago

How do you respond to that? You don't. This person has other issues they need to iron out before coming into online business, or any business for that matter.

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Glenn Newsome

15 years ago

Looks like an excellent opportunity to me (with qualifications). Most of us have been there and done that. Anyone who says different, well, they just got plain lucky. Now, you can flame me or that statement all you want, it will do you no good. If you became successful fairly quickly or right away then you had someone, system, method, mentor, etc. that was of high quality and you chose the right thing at the right time.
I say this person has apparently tried other things and they just were not for him/her and did not work.
I remember one particular program I bought into at first. Followed it to the letter, spent over 8 hours a day working (not playing) on the computer while holding a full time job. Guess what? It bombed! All that work and less than dismal results. Loads of time wasted not to mention the money.
Needless, to say it was frustrating. Almost made me quit too. Even now looking back on it--the product and process was junk! I will say that that is not the only example in my case either.. I just look at failures a little different now.
Now on to this guy/gal. I would qualify them with a couple of things. I would want to skype, email, etc. them to find out what their idea of making money online means to them. Will they be happy starting small if they see positive results? Do they really expect to start making six figures starting their first month or get rich quick?
If their goals are reasonable and you are confident in your abilities to help this person get going. Then, maybe help them out a little--with steps to take--only give them the next step when you are satisfied that they have completed the first step you gave them, etc.
Show em how to make a little for proof and just to be nice etc. yada, yada, yada.
You will gain a customer for life and many future recommendations from them, or maybe not. But you have done a good deed and backed up what you preach.
If their concept of making money is out of line--try to educate them--if they don't understand or want to and still want to get rich overnight--then tell them you can't possibly help them and say good bye.
At least you have given them the chance.
You could start by saying that a real internet business that is real and free--is not a reasonable statement.

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Kenneth Smith 15 years ago

I might try asking him:

"What WON'T happen in your life if you DON'T pursue this wholeheartedly?"

A double negative sort of mangles the thought processes. But it often works!

Sorry, it's the NLP coming out in me

Kenneth
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Floyd Fisher 15 years ago

I would think the best thing to do is unsubscribe them and move on.

You're job isn't to save the world....it's to help people who want to help themselves.

Never throw perls before swine...it only makes 'em mad.
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Cash Blasters Online

15 years ago

Some people like this will never change, move on to another day and don't get caught in a trap helping someone, who has no self worth to believe in them self, only God can change a person like this.

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PotPieGirl

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Cash Blasters Online

Some people like this will never change, move on to another day and don't get caught in a trap helping someone, who has no self worth to believe in them self, only God can change a person like this.

Really?

Sadly, I get emails like the one in the original post quite frequently. Does anyone remember being new to all this? I certainly do!

Once upon a time, I about beat my head against a wall because I couldn't understand what "upload to your server" meant! By the time I finally figured it out, I thought I was the most stupid human being ever! How would I EVER learn all this if I don't even know what "upload to your server" means?

The frustration factor in learning all this is HUGE.

I would totally respond to that email. I would tell them to stop beating their self up. I would explain that making money online can be very basic - and starting very basic is a really good idea. Then, I'd send them to Bum Marketing or something that is free and very basic.

I don't see this as "getting caught in a trap of helping someone" - in fact, I think that is a horrible thing to even say.

One person, even a complete stranger, can make a HUGE difference.

That is, IF making a difference is important to you.

Just my two cents =)

Jennifer
~PotPieGirl

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Steven Carl Kelly

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Cash Blasters Online

Some people like this will never change, move on to another day and don't get caught in a trap helping someone, who has no self worth to believe in them self, only God can change a person like this.

Maybe it was God who compelled this person to reach out to OP for help?

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azlanhussain

15 years ago

Be gentle, and reply by offering your assistance. Put the $ aside and threat him as though he is your own buddy..

He might end up not buying anything from you but you will surely live with satisfaction. Make everyone feels pleasant, that is what matters.. the rest will come in by itself..

Cheers,

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rosetrees

15 years ago

Originally Posted by affhelper

"Sorry, I have discovered from many hours and dollars spent that I am just an idiot. I have always wanted an internet business. The thing is that I am not sure that I am teachable. I do not want to waste anymore money of dreams that I am not smart enough to make happen. If this is a real deal, I am sorry. I will always want an internet business that is real and free!"

This is a defence mechanism. I see it all the time in my students. Usually the ones that are terrified and have bad experiences of education at school. They fear failure, so start by telling you that they are stupid or won't be able to learn. In their eyes then, when they can'd do whatever it is your trying to teach them they can say "I told you so" rather than being disappointed by their own "failure".

These are the people I have quiet little talks with about how well they are doing, plus encouraging them to reflect on what they have learnt rather than looking forward.

Chairman Mao (I think) said A Journey of a Thousand Miles Starts with a Single STep. Many people look too far ahead and get frustrated because they haven't reached their perceived destination, rather than being able to see how far they have actually come.

Also, bear in mind that there are a range of different learning styles. If this person is trying to do a home study course, do you know any evening/day type courses they could attend? Sometimes attending a class provides motivation and a mixture of styles that an internet based course can't.

How/whether you continue to help depends on how much time you are able to spend with this person. Don't take it personally - at the end of the day it is their life, not yours. But if you are able to help you will get a great sense of personal satisfaction. Just don't let yourself be sucked in if the person turns out to be an emotional drain. (From the tone of the email I'd guess they aren't, just frustrated.)

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datingloot.com

15 years ago

Well... why do 5% make 95% of the money in a capitalist society? Because we're NOT "all the same". We have different levels of abilities/talents/etc.

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Clark

15 years ago

Craft a Consise and easily Comprehensible message back to him:

"Goodbye!"

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Jeffrey Louis

15 years ago

People are so cheap

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PotPieGirl

15 years ago

I have to say, its been incredibly insightful to see the responses in this thread.

It's like many in this thread have never worked OFFline before.

I was a managing golf pro for years. I can't tell you just how many folks would come off the 18th green with a very similar attitude as the email in the original post.

Frustrated. Feeling "unteachable". Tired of spending money to learn something that just wasn't working out.

You mean to tell me that if this customer was right in FRONT of you, you would just say "Goodbye", or "Only God can help you"?? Perhaps tell him/her that they are cheap because they are frustrated due to all the money they have ALREADY spent?

The person in the original post who emailed was already on affhelpers list. Perhaps had bought previously?

So, if you had someone who already bought from you email back in frustration, you would simply unsubscribe them?

Has anyone heard of customer retention?

I'm sorry, but I am amazed at the varying attitudes in this thread. I am a customer service freak, so I tend to get on my soap box about issues like this.

But, wow....

Jennifer
~PotPieGirl

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affhelper 15 years ago

Well, I emailed the person back with some cool tips on how to get
started for free, but still if you are calling yourself an idiot then I am not sure
if there is much you can do about that.

I was frustrated once too! But I would never call myself an idiot and that
I am not smart enough to make things work. I just kept on going and never
gave up.
- Thanks
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michaelbeauchamp

15 years ago

Originally Posted by PotPie Queen

I have to say, its been incredibly insightful to see the responses in this thread.

It's like many in this thread have never worked OFFline before.
....
Has anyone heard of customer retention?

I'm sorry, but I am amazed at the varying attitudes in this thread. I am a customer service freak, so I tend to get on my soap box about issues like this.

But, wow....

Jennifer
~PotPieGirl

Even though I've abbreviated the post drastically, I agree wholeheartedly with Jennifer.

I too am amazed at how quickly some would write this person off. Don't you remember how frustrated you became in the beginning of your online venture?

There are also many other helpful comments here, well done to all those members.

Michael

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Spike SpiegelIM

15 years ago

I agree with the others that see this as an opportunity. But this guy seems to have the intention but just too lazy or just frustrated for not having immediate results. I'd offer my best for this guy and maybe I can turn him around..

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Mary Gallivan

15 years ago

Hi

I think I'd be inclined to start a response with 'I'm sorry to hear that you feel that way. Many people do invest a lot of money in their business to make it really successful. However, you'll be pleased to know that you can build a business for free but it takes a bit longer.

There are many free books on the internet and you can always get free help and advice in ..this forum.... etc.

The most important things that are needed in any business which you can't get for free, are hard work, a belief in yourself, motivation and determination to succeed.'

Finish off with something along the lines of how you'd love to hear from them again when they've made their first dollar.

You could also add about the elation that's felt when that first check arrives, no matter how small, as a reward for all the hard work.

Best wishes

Mary

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Clark

15 years ago

Hey PPQ, the prospect qualified themselves in this single statement:

I do not want to waste anymore money of dreams that I am not smart enough to make happen. If this is a real deal, I am sorry. I will always want an internet business that is real and free!"

Affhelper didn't say he was a previous customer of his.

Why would you waste your time with this freebie seeker when you should be focused on those who have shown you real committment through their purchasing behaviour so you can guide them through your sales funnel.

I'm sure you spent all day giving free golfing lessons to folks who already paid $150 in green fees then equalled the same amount in beer purchased at the 19th green after your free lesson.... but at the end of the day, did you make money from your efforts?

Nope... because they are not your customer... they are your distraction.

People are in business to make money and there is nothing wrong with that at all.

Sales slippage will happen naturally and cannot be reasonably eliminated from the sales process.

In fact, what are you doing about those customers who are not so vocal about your offer... you know, the 98 - 99% of prospets who bounce from your sales page offer without sending a passion plea for you to part with your product for FREE?

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PotPieGirl

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Clark

Hey PPQ, the prospect qualified themselves in this single statement:

I do not want to waste anymore money of dreams that I am not smart enough to make happen. If this is a real deal, I am sorry. I will always want an internet business that is real and free!"

Affhelper didn't say he was a previous customer of his.

He didn't say this person WASN'T either =)

Affhelper DID say that he sent an email out to his list. So the person that emailed back was on his list for one reason or another. Right?

Why would you waste your time with this freebie seeker when you should be focused on those who have shown you real committment through their purchasing behaviour so you can guide them through your sales funnel.

If they're one my list, they are already in "the funnel". Fact is, from the original post, all we know is that the person who emailed affhelper was on a list he had. We don't know if the person who emailed was a previous BUYING customer or not.

It would be a something worth checking on, now wouldn't it?

I'm sure you spent all day giving free golfing lessons to folks who already paid $150 in green fees then equalled the same amount in beer purchased at the 19th green after your free lesson.... but at the end of the day, did you make money from your efforts?

Nope... because they are not your customer... they are your distraction.

Actually, I didn't spend all day giving lessons to these folks. You misunderstood what I said. However, I didn't ignore them or dismiss them, either. It takes 5 minutes to listen to someone. Maybe the person at my course was frustrated because they paid $500 for a driver from someone - and it was the wrong driver for their game. THAT, I CAN fix. I can give them a demo of a club that is suited for them to try out...and guess what probably happens next?

And yes, at the end of the day I DID make money. Guess what also happens when you take 5 minutes out of your all focused on immediate earnings day? When you talk with someone, you build rapport. I have a way of helping people get UNfrustrated fairly quickly. So, they leave...and the next weekend comes. Naturally, we golfers are gluttons for punishment, so that previous customer will be looking to golf again. Guess where he/she will probably golf?

And thats money I probably would NOT have made if I didn't take those 5 minutes.

People are in business to make money and there is nothing wrong with that at all.

No, nothing wrong with that. In fact, if you're in business and not interested in making a profit.....there might be a short future for your business...lol!

Sales slippage will happen naturally and cannot be reasonably eliminated from the sales process.

I disagree. If a customer takes 5 minutes to email me.... I have an unbelievably wonderful opportunity to help eliminate some sales slippage.

In fact, what are you doing about those customers who are not so vocal about your offer... you know, the 98 - 99% of prospets who bounce from your sales page offer without sending a passion plea for you to part with your product for FREE?

If someone doesn't speak up, or opt in...there is very little I can do about that. I also don't see the email posted in the original post as a plea to get the product for free. I heard frustration and doubt. I also never said I would give that person who emailed the product for free - I said that I would refer them to something that IS free (ie, Bum Marketing). Something that is more basic and something that will hopefully lead that person to seeing results. Once results are seen, the sky is the limit. And maybe...just maybe...they might remember the person that helped them find the info that helped them achieve those results...and see that person as someone they can trust.....

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, I am just very passionate about this topic. Apparently we have a different attitude about customers and customer service...and that's ok. I started all this with nothing and knowing NOTHING. I know success can be achieved from a starting point like that.

I have yet to have a single person email me that wasn't worth my time. Even if it takes me 3 seconds to say "No thank you". I also get very frustrated with very successful IMrs who don't email back. It doesn't build trust. And trust is so hard to earn - especially online.

Just my two cents =)

Thanks for the great discussion!

Jennifer
~PotPieGirl

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Janet McLean

15 years ago

I may be way off on this guy, but has anyone ever heard the story of the Young new Insurance salesman that had to sell insurance to another insurance man? And not just any insurance man but an Insurance Guru.

I'll give you the short version
It went something like this: YM = young man IG = insurance guru

YM - Hi, sorry to take up your time.
IG - Please, have a seat.

YM - You probably don't need insurance...You probably already know all about insurances... I don't know how I'm going to help you...I'm an idiot for coming here...I don't know how I'm...

IG - Wait STOP! You can't sell insurance like that.
YM - Huh?

IG - No, No, Here, LET ME SHOW you. You need to speak with confidence! Let me see what you have. Here ...see this ...see that... This is what you say...and do this ...do that. ...so do you see what I mean?
YM - Yup -- Ok -- Oh, yes. WOW that's really great. You're really good ... I hope I can be as good as you someday.

IG - You will. I'm sure of it. As long as you do what what I taught you. As a matter of fact I'll start you off. I'll buy this life insurance from you. .........There you go. all signed and delivered.
YM - Gee thanks!

IG - NOW TELL ME before you go, --The next time you go to sell to an insurance man what are you going to say?

YM - YOU JUST HEARD IT! The YM gave him a big smile

and walked out the door.

It could be that that's this guys "sales" pitch. Trying to get help and training for free.

Just wanted to show the other side of the coin.

I'm all for helping people, but they have to be willing to help themselves first. So, just in case this guy is legit, all you can do is encourge him and direct him to places where he can get free information to help and guide him, like here in the forums. But also, to people who can help him build up his self-esteem. Like Tony Robbins, and many others.

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Black Hat Cat

Banned 15 years ago

If this is a real deal, I am sorry. I will always want an internet business that is real and free!"

This line says it all. I mean, it is an interesting concept. Let's all start businesses where all our products are free. Frankly, I'm surprised no one has thought of this before.

To put it in the simplest possible terms, in business it costs very little if anything to be nice. Being nasty can cost you everything.

And eating a piece of candy can cost you your life, neither of which has anything to with the situation discussed here. You aren't being nasty if you refuse to give your product away for free, or if you have better things to do than waste time with people like the one in the email, and you aren't going to lose everything if you don't. Cute sayings are, well, cute, but let's keep things in perspective.

Affhelper DID say that he sent an email out to his list. So the person that emailed back was on his list for one reason or another. Right?

Right, because no one ever gets on a list in the make money niche without buying something first, lol. He is not a customer. Stop reaching.

How do you respond to that? You don't. This person has other issues they need to iron out before coming into online business, or any business for that matter.

Probably the most accurate thing said in this thread. But for the "Florence Nightingales" here who will never learn, beg the OP to put you into contact with this poor soul, and let the saving begin. Sure he wants his "money for nothing, and his checks for free" but I foresee no problems for you at all. You can do it, I know you can.

Meanwhile, the rest of us will be busy back in the real world working on more profitable endeavors...

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tomw

15 years ago

Originally Posted by blackhatcat

This line says it all. I mean, it is an interesting concept. Let's all start businesses where all our products are free. Frankly, I'm surprised no one has thought of this before.

And eating a piece of candy can cost you your life, neither of which has anything to with the situation discussed here. You aren't being nasty if you refuse to give your product away for free, or if you have better things to do than waste time with people like the one in the email, and you aren't going to lose everything if you don't. Cute sayings are, well, cute, but let's keep things in perspective.

Right, because no one ever gets on a list in the make money niche without buying something first, lol. He is not a customer. Stop reaching.

Probably the most accurate thing said in this thread. But for the "Florence Nightingales" here who will never learn, beg the OP to put you into contact with this poor soul, and let the saving begin. Sure he wants his "money for nothing, and his checks for free" but I foresee no problems for you at all. You can do it, I know you can.

Meanwhile, the rest of us will be busy back in the real world working on more profitable endeavors...

You took my point out of context in a self aggrandising attempt to make a smart-alec remark. Yay for you! The "cute" soundbite was exactly that. Well done you! It was made to make a simple point about the value of customer service which was made in response to a comment. Not the original post.

Excuse the fact that I don't respond more fully because I have to go and lie down as I'm simply awestruck by your bedroom business insight and feel a little faint. If only Florence Nightingale where still around to comfort me...

Thomas

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Clark

15 years ago

Originally Posted by PotPie Queen

He didn't say this person WASN'T either =)

Affhelper DID say that he sent an email out to his list. So the person that emailed back was on his list for one reason or another. Right?

=> It doesn't mean he is a previous buyer I.e. current customer therefore, the "prospect" has no real value unless they become a customer where lifetime ROI can be measured.

If they're one my list, they are already in "the funnel". Fact is, from the original post, all we know is that the person who emailed affhelper was on a list he had. We don't know if the person who emailed was a previous BUYING customer or not.

We also don't know if the person is the Sultan of Brunei - Zero sum argument.

It would be a something worth checking on, now wouldn't it?

I never said it wasn't however, you decided to draw your own conclusion.

Actually, I didn't spend all day giving lessons to these folks. You misunderstood what I said. However, I didn't ignore them or dismiss them, either. It takes 5 minutes to listen to someone. Maybe the person at my course was frustrated because they paid $500 for a driver from someone - and it was the wrong driver for their game. THAT, I CAN fix. I can give them a demo of a club that is suited for them to try out...and guess what probably happens next?

Your assumptions, albeit unfounded, are based on customer retention and not customer acquisition. No, nobody who is interested in growing their business would turn their back on an existing customer.

And yes, at the end of the day I DID make money. Guess what also happens when you take 5 minutes out of your all focused on immediate earnings day? When you talk with someone, you build rapport. I have a way of helping people get UNfrustrated fairly quickly. So, they leave...and the next weekend comes. Naturally, we golfers are gluttons for punishment, so that previous customer will be looking to golf again. Guess where he/she will probably golf?

Very true, a warm prospect is easier to convert than an admitted idiot.

And thats money I probably would NOT have made if I didn't take those 5 minutes.

See answer above.

No, nothing wrong with that. In fact, if you're in business and not interested in making a profit.....there might be a short future for your business...lol!

Now we are getting somewhere... common ground.

I disagree. If a customer takes 5 minutes to email me.... I have an unbelievably wonderful opportunity to help eliminate some sales slippage.

Again, your assumption is out of context. Please keep it in the context of what the prospect told the OP - They do not want to spend money and they do not have the aptitude to follow through - those are the facts that I am basing my answers and judgements from.

You say "a customer".... this is not a customer.

If someone doesn't speak up, or opt in...there is very little I can do about that. I also don't see the email posted in the original post as a plea to get the product for free. I heard frustration and doubt. I also never said I would give that person who emailed the product for free - I said that I would refer them to something that IS free (ie, Bum Marketing). Something that is more basic and something that will hopefully lead that person to seeing results. Once results are seen, the sky is the limit. And maybe...just maybe...they might remember the person that helped them find the info that helped them achieve those results...and see that person as someone they can trust.....

There's a 5% chance that anyone will make a living online exclusively and for the character who sent the email, he has ZERO chance and if by some miracle he does have some margin of success, more than likely he will forget you and chase after the next best thing.

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, I am just very passionate about this topic. Apparently we have a different attitude about customers and customer service...and that's ok. I started all this with nothing and knowing NOTHING. I know success can be achieved from a starting point like that.

There isn't a fight, it is a discussion.

I am also passionate about my customers too.

Congratulations on your success and I mean that sincerely. You are different than 95% of the people out there first and foremost because you took action, measured your results, made corrections and never quit.... Most people are not like you or I.

I have yet to have a single person email me that wasn't worth my time. Even if it takes me 3 seconds to say "No thank you". I also get very frustrated with very successful IMrs who don't email back. It doesn't build trust. And trust is so hard to earn - especially online.

If you aren't getting people trying to waste your time then you are not marketing aggressively enough, sorry to say.

Why do you think your IM Guru will not email you back? (very poignant rhetorical question)

"No thank you" is the same as Goodbye.

Just my two cents =)

Thanks for the great discussion!

Jennifer
~PotPieGirl

Thank you as well.

Believe it or not, I have consulted with major organizations in the way of CRM & Customer Churn strategies.

I won't get into the details of differentiated sales with you because the basic premise is that not all customers are to be treated equal especially when you are focused on growing the profitability of your business.

The 80/20 rule applies in this case.

Some people are just bad prospects who are not worth the investment of your time and money. That is my personal position from my experiences and also a position that is held by every business that I have ever been in contact with.

If spending your time with folks like the one who emailed the OP is working for you, then by all means, carry on with what is successful for you.

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profitgenie

15 years ago

I think you have two options here either write the person off as they need to have some faith in themselves get them to do mark joyners simpleology course.

Second i have come to the relisation (sorry cant spell that word) that there is no free online. Any affiliate program you can join for free but no one gets paid unless someone spends money.

If you join for free it is hard to get your contacts, potential buyers to pay to join as you are not doing it yourself.

If you join for free and promote, why should the next person sign on as a paying member. Get the person to pay and join one program and get the full benefits and then they will be able to onsell the true value of said program or product.

Good luck

PG

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PotPieGirl

15 years ago

We also don't know if the person is the Sultan of Brunei - Zero sum argument.

Made me laugh!

Bottom line, my whole point is that, to me, that email deserved some sort of response.

The only thing I have a question on is this...

If you aren't getting people trying to waste your time then you are not marketing aggressively enough, sorry to say.

Why do you think your IM Guru will not email you back? (very poignant rhetorical question)

I understand your point that if we put ourself out there enough, we will have those that try to take advantage of our time and good nature. Got that.

However, are you implying that "my im guru" won't email me back because I was wasting his/her time?

I could be offended by that, but I really don't feel like it =)

I am (was) a repeat BUYING customer for 'my IM guru'. I also feel that I was known well enough by that person to know that I completely respect the commodity of time.

Anyway... that's another story.

Enjoyed the discussion - thanks again!

Jennifer
~PotPieGirl

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Clark

15 years ago

Originally Posted by PotPie Queen

Made me laugh!

Bottom line, my whole point is that, to me, that email deserved some sort of response.

The only thing I have a question on is this...

I understand your point that if we put ourself out there enough, we will have those that try to take advantage of our time and good nature. Got that.

However, are you implying that "my im guru" won't email me back because I was wasting his/her time?

I could be offended by that, but I really don't feel like it =)

I am (was) a repeat BUYING customer for 'my IM guru'. I also feel that I was known well enough by that person to know that I completely respect the commodity of time.

Anyway... that's another story.

Enjoyed the discussion - thanks again!

Jennifer
~PotPieGirl

Cheers!

I don't know the circumstances as to why they didn't email you back (your side and theirs to be fair) however, you should give them another chance especially if you are a paying customer who is a raving fan (tell them so!) of their product line.

I know some product owners utilize helpdesk software via ticketing systems and others have seperate email addresses for support (rather than replying to an autoresponder email) so you may want to seek out their preferred method for best contact.

Also, maybe the Guru is lax in the ways of Customer Service and could use a few strategies from you to utilize the helpdesk/customer service feature as a mechanisim which can drive upselling (doing it for the frustrated customer for a premium price) or lateral selling (Add-on's) to interested "buyers" and also have those "Active" buyers complete product creation surveys to see what they would want to buy in the future and to be on the pre-sale list?

I do believe that Customer Service does pay with the right system and customers in place.

Cheers, it was fun (we're both right)

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Li Weng

15 years ago

Just tell them like it is. If they don't believe that they can succeed, there is no way in the world that they will. Believing is the basis of success. If they don't know about something, why don't they take the initiative and time to do a bit of research and learn? Internet marketing isn't exactly rocket science.

They don't want to spend money, they don't want to do ANY work, yet they want to have a lot of money. Good luck to that!

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Christie Love

15 years ago

No where in his message did I hear him say he is willing to try to learn or that he has tried to learn in the past.

Wow! And... I thought my own negativity got to the best of me at times. Although I do know people who are unteachable. To me, this is frustrating. I feel that if you have a strong desire to learn something, you will do what ever it takes to make it happen.

Did you give the guy a pep talk?

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affhelper

15 years ago

I agree that some people get so frustrated after spending all kinds of money
on different ebooks and tools, but the problem is that they never put any
of that info into action. They simply leave it hidden somewhere on their desktop and move on to buy another thing. So who's fault is it, really?

What I didn't like in that message I received was that she called herself an
idiot and that she is not smart enough to make things work. That's pretty
much immediate failure not only in business but also in life!

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jayden.fellze

15 years ago

No, this kind of a negative attitude will take you nowhere. You have to develop confidence in yourself that you can succeed, build a business of your own, and earn money. For that you need to toil a lot, especially for online jobs. How can you conclude that you are not teachable? Nothing comes to you free and you will have to invest something initially, here in online business both some money and your hard work. You need to have interest and believe in yourself. That should be your first step for any business or job.

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Writing Warrior

15 years ago

Originally Posted by p1a1u1l1

You never know, that could just be the standard canned
email they send to all product owner to get a free ride.

On the other hand, I would reply with something along
the lines of "pick yourself up and dust yourself off" and
then point them in the direction of the warrior forum.

-paul

I agree with you completely, Paul. Excellent idea!

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abelacts

15 years ago

If he is genuinely having this kind of attitude (I take it from the face value), no one can help but himself. The teacher will only appear when the student is ready. I learned this the hard way, it's better to teach someone who is willing to learn than to convince someone he has to learn.

Perhaps, what Sam said was true. He might be downright frustrated for not being able to achieve anything. But that's not the kind of attitude if you want to succeed.

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Mayse Ardahan

15 years ago

Well I think he's asking for help without saying that he needs that help!!
i dont Know maybe he's a quiter or something like this,,, but really i think he was asking for help,,so go a head and give him your hand.

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timemeter90

15 years ago

This is sad. Self motivation, confidence in oneself and positive attitude are the primary pre requisites for starting anything new in your life or for sustaining anything which is currently running in your life.
I wish this person somehow gains his lost confidence and begin a fresh start of his life.
God bless him and his family.

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Kazooli

15 years ago

Originally Posted by affhelper

Below is the email I received from one my subscribers after I sent out a promo email yesterday. That is just sad

"Sorry, I have discovered from many hours and dollars spent that I am just an idiot. I have always wanted an internet business. The thing is that I am not sure that I am teachable. I do not want to waste anymore money of dreams that I am not smart enough to make happen. If this is a real deal, I am sorry. I will always want an internet business that is real and free!"

How could you say something like that about yourself? If that's the kind of attitude people have then they will never see any success.

This is the best opportunity to listen and start a dialogue. He has already told you of his disappointment. The inviting process (you sending out an email) was strong enough to hit an emotional route.

This guy responded to you with his struggles. Are you giving up or do you genuinely want to help? If you do want to help then you need forgetting about your promotions.

Make a genuine friend! This could give you an insight and help you refine your further campaigns and objections.

You could have a look at my last article on my sig. There you may find why this guy has this conflicting behaviour towards you. Definitely not his fault!

Once you start the conversation and you know where the problem is then you can decide if your products are the ones that suit him or perhaps not.

Note down the objections along with the way you have handled this as it will help immensely further on other discussions.

Sincerely,
Kazooli

PS, If this person is looking for a free way of making money due to financial difficulties, you can still use this to help him. You could bring him to the forum so that he meets other people as your friends and feel relaxed about it. See him for what he is: a person like you when first started online. He is in need of trusting someone for not giving him empty promises. Do not try to convince him that your opportunity is the best; listen and learn what he has to tell you.

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