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Facebook spammer fined $1 billion

by swilliams09
53 replies
Facebook spammer fined $1 billion - Canada - Canoe.ca

MONTREAL - A Montreal man who sent more than four million spam e-mails to Facebook users over a two-month period was ordered to pay the social media giant more than $1 billion in compensation.
Adam Guerbuez did not admit to sending the spam. But he also did not contest the Sept. 28 Superior Court ruling, which upheld an earlier decision by a U.S. District Court judge in San Jose, Calif.
Guerbuez was fined $100 US for each of the 4,366,386 spam messages that were posted onto Facebook profiles in March and April 2008. With punitive damages and the exchange rate factored in, Guerbuez owes $1,068,928,721.46. He's also barred from opening a Facebook account.
The self-described online marketer says Facebook will have difficulty collecting the sum now that he has filed for bankruptcy.
Facebook says Guerbuez posed as a friend and posted ads for various products on a user's wall, an area of the online profile page where users share website links, pictures and other information.
Quebec Superior Court Justice Lise Fournier wrote in her ruling that the barrage of spam was unprecedented.


"Facebook had never been targeted by as much spam and the method used was particularly efficient given that the spam appeared to be coming from users' friends," the judge wrote last week.
According to Facebook, Guerbuez fooled its users into providing him with their usernames and passwords. One method was the use of fake websites that posed as legitimate destinations.
After Guerbuez gained access to user's personal profiles, he used computer programs to send out millions of messages promoting a variety of products, including marijuana and penis-enlargement products, Facebook said.
Fournier wrote that Guerbuez has earned "very significant revenues" from his online business.
Guerbuez argued that the fine was excessive, adding that spam is nothing more than a nuisance.
"If there's anything that does hit my e-mail box that I didn't ask to receive, I'll simply press the delete button," he said in a statement posted on his website.
"That's what it's on the keyboard for."
#billion #facebook #fined #spammer
  • Profile picture of the author Margo Tuul
    He was right, somehow...if you didn't ask and don't know what it is, delete it!
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Margo24 View Post

      He was right, somehow...if you didn't ask and don't know what it is, delete it!
      YEAH RIGHT!(sarc)

      Have ***YOU*** ever tried deleting THOUSANDS of emails from YOUR email? I DOUBT IT!

      And what about the email you WANT that you DON'T get because of such idiots!

      Maybe they should bar him from the internet and throw him in jail for each offense! People like that shouldn't be allowed to play adult!

      adionline is right, AND he could be forced to sell stuff. HEY, sell the computers, since you won't use them anymore! AND it would hurt his credit! AND he could lose his current credit lines!

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Holmes
    What he really needs is to consolidate all of his existing loans into one manageable, monthly repayment.

    He should give ocean finance a call.

    Either that or go back in time and not spam like a douche..
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  • Profile picture of the author Evan-M
    lol he better start spamming some other sites to pay his Facebook bills lol
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  • Profile picture of the author Rikki_Fawkes
    Originally Posted by swilliams09 View Post

    And here I was thinking you just knew how to write a catchy WF thread headline...
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  • Profile picture of the author Jack Duncan
    Ouch...

    That's a pretty stiff penalty. Wonder how much he actually ends up paying...

    And why do spammers always push this stuff:

    After Guerbuez gained access to user’s personal profiles, he used computer programs to send out millions of messages promoting a variety of products, including marijuana and penis-enlargement products, Facebook said.
    Bazaar that they always pick these hokey markets to spam with...
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    • Profile picture of the author Evan-M
      Originally Posted by Jack Duncan View Post

      Ouch...

      That's a pretty stiff penalty. Wonder how much he actually ends up paying...

      And why do they do this:



      Bazaar that they always pick these hokey markets to spam with...
      He will go bankrupt and pay next to nothing. Its more of the courts way of scaring people out of internet spam than anything. I can't stand spam like this, but come on do they really think he can pay a billion dollars. No they know he will go bankrupt, pay what he can, and be spamming now places with a hot coffee in hand by Monday morning.
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  • Profile picture of the author abnation
    Meanwhile, thousands of others are continuing to spam Facebook to pieces... Hope Facebook invests the money into some counter-spamming campaigns.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sammy McClane
    To paraphrase Henry Kissinger, it's the 90% of Internet Marketers that make the other 10% look bad...
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  • Profile picture of the author visimedia
    4 million emails?

    I think it's not a SPAM, but it's a SPAWN, (spawn is the master level of spam, hhahahahahahahah_) kidding
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  • Profile picture of the author eAvenue
    definitely a scare tactic by the courts. Impossible for one man to pay back with that much of a fine looming over him.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tom Goodwin
      Originally Posted by eAvenue View Post

      definitely a scare tactic by the courts. Impossible for one man to pay back with that much of a fine looming over him.
      Not sure why that is relevant at all.

      Damages are awarded mostly based upon:
      (1) actual damages caused;
      (2) if it violates a statutory law (such as the spam laws on the books, which this appears that it did), then the statute can set penalty figures (for instance $X per offense)
      (3) punitive damages to prevent him or anyone else from doing this again.


      If you cause $2M of damages, should the court only award $43k of damages if that is all you can pay? Of course not.

      Tom
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      • Profile picture of the author jpaissa27
        its pretty much all bakruptcy, it seems like he knew he was going to end up this way anyway.

        Poor dude
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      • Profile picture of the author Sardent
        I'm afraid I must dissent.

        While the article does not give much in the way of specifics, I find the judgment to be obsessive and oppressive. I think it's ridiculous. And it's a ruling that will set precedent that will haunt millions of small facebook users - after all who defines what constitutes spam?

        For example, I recently went to the Flip Video fan page to get a coupon, now they spam my wall. Illegal?

        Now if they had gone after him instead for phishing, getting user names and passwords, gaining access to user's personal profiles, using computer programs to send out millions of messages in their names, the case would be justified. Might have even been able to include jail time.

        It's dumbfounding what people, and the courts think is more important to prosecute.
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        • Profile picture of the author Tom Goodwin
          Originally Posted by Sardent View Post

          I'm afraid I must dissent.

          While the article does not give much in the way of specifics, I find the judgment to be obsessive and oppressive. I think it's ridiculous. And it's a ruling that will set precedent that will haunt millions of small facebook users - after all who defines what constitutes spam?
          I think a lot of people are thrown off by the heading of this thread. He wasn't sued because he was a spammer, he was sued because he was an email spammer. Countries like the US and Canada have very specific laws against sending out commercial emails to people without their prior consent. It is a matter of statute. These statutes typically set specific monetary penalties too. In this case, it was set at $100 per email. Then when you talk on various punitive damages, it basically doubled the penalty.

          How will this haunt millions of facebook users? Do you plan on sending out large numbers of unsolicited commercial emails to facebook users? If not, dont' worry about it.

          Originally Posted by Sardent View Post

          For example, I recently went to the Flip Video fan page to get a coupon, now they spam my wall. Illegal?
          No. It wasn't an unsolicited commercial email.

          Tom
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          • Profile picture of the author Sardent
            Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin View Post

            I think a lot of people are thrown off by the heading of this thread. He wasn't sued because he was a spammer, he was sued because he was an email spammer. Countries like the US and Canada have very specific laws against sending out commercial emails to people without their prior consent. It is a matter of statute. These statutes typically set specific monetary penalties too. In this case, it was set at $100 per email. Then when you talk on various punitive damages, it basically doubled the penalty.

            Tom
            Isn't that two different things?
            I mean it's Facebook who sued him, right?

            If he violated statute why aren't the fines going to the government? Or the individual users whose accounts he violated?
            I would think facebook would lack standing. They merely provided the platform.
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            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
              Sardent,
              If he violated statute why aren't the fines going to the government? Or the individual users whose accounts he violated?
              I would think facebook would lack standing. They merely provided the platform.
              Reminder: I am not a lawyer. I have read quite a bit on these cases, and the actual statute, but that doesn't make this gospel.

              That said, most of the legislation that applies in these cases does not allow for private right of action. The service providers are given standing, assuming they meet certain criteria. That's not one you want to try and stretch, either. A gentleman in, I believe, California tried to assert standing based on a few user accounts on a private server and annoyed the judge pretty badly. Ended up getting smacked with the defendants' legal bills.


              Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Sardent,
          Now if they had gone after him instead for phishing, getting user names and passwords, gaining access to user's personal profiles, using computer programs to send out millions of messages in their names, the case would be justified. Might have even been able to include jail time.
          That may have been the actual basis for the judgement, or part of it. It is in most such cases.

          Tom,

          The way CAN-SPAM is written, it's my impression that it applies to almost any private messaging system. (Yes, there is case law supporting this idea.) The law uses some interesting phrases. For example, IIRC, it refers to online service providers, rather than Internet service/access providers.

          Throw in phishing and fraudulent labeling of the source, and the nastier provisions of CAN-SPAM can kick in, along with other laws.


          Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author jasonblake10
          Originally Posted by Sardent View Post

          I'm afraid I must dissent.

          While the article does not give much in the way of specifics, I find the judgment to be obsessive and oppressive. I think it's ridiculous. And it's a ruling that will set precedent that will haunt millions of small facebook users - after all who defines what constitutes spam?

          For example, I recently went to the Flip Video fan page to get a coupon, now they spam my wall. Illegal?

          Now if they had gone after him instead for phishing, getting user names and passwords, gaining access to user's personal profiles, using computer programs to send out millions of messages in their names, the case would be justified. Might have even been able to include jail time.

          It's dumbfounding what people, and the courts think is more important to prosecute.
          The amount is truly ridiculous. Spam is annoying, but not 1 billion dollar annoying. Also, the spamming probably did not damage facebook's system. I'm guessing he will appeal the judgment.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by Sardent View Post

          I'm afraid I must dissent.

          While the article does not give much in the way of specifics, I find the judgment to be obsessive and oppressive. I think it's ridiculous. And it's a ruling that will set precedent that will haunt millions of small facebook users - after all who defines what constitutes spam?

          For example, I recently went to the Flip Video fan page to get a coupon, now they spam my wall. Illegal?

          Now if they had gone after him instead for phishing, getting user names and passwords, gaining access to user’s personal profiles, using computer programs to send out millions of messages in their names, the case would be justified. Might have even been able to include jail time.

          It's dumbfounding what people, and the courts think is more important to prosecute.
          This spammer phished, hacked a computers programming effectively, and impersonated others, aren't all of those FELONIES!?!?!? AND, of course, he spammed. And how many INNOCENT people do ANY of that!?

          Frankly, I think $100 per incident IS fair! I WISH they were obsessed! They AREN'T! It isn't oppressive either! The SPAMMER was the one that was oppressing!

          Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    CPA spammers on facebook take heed.

    {applause}
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    • Profile picture of the author Tom Goodwin
      Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

      CPA spammers on facebook take heed.

      {applause}
      Note that I'm not a facebook guy, but can't you spam facebook without sending out emails?

      Spamming by sending out emails -- problematic
      Spamming by not sending out emails -- generally not problematic.

      The problem here is that the guy sent out emails, which is a huge no-no.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lloyd Buchinski
    This part kind of got to me.

    Guerbuez argued that the fine was excessive, adding that spam is nothing more than a nuisance.
    "If there's anything that does hit my e-mail box that I didn't ask to receive, I'll simply press the delete button," he said in a statement posted on his website.
    "That's what it's on the keyboard for."
    It would have been nice if the judge had also ordered him to delete all those spams too. Wear out your own keyboard, ok?
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  • Profile picture of the author onlinemoney00
    How much money does he have? I don't think he has the money even if he didn't file for bankruptcy
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  • Profile picture of the author onlinemoney00
    By the way, I use facebook for marketing and I would never spam. Groups and fanpages are great and with every message you send, tell members how to opy out. I treat my facebook friends the same way I would my email list of subscribers
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    • Profile picture of the author adionline
      I am not sure how bankruptcy works exactly but from what I've heard they can take away any assets over a certain amount, so he can potentially lose a lot depending on what he has. I could be wrong though.
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      • Profile picture of the author jasonblake10
        Originally Posted by adionline View Post

        I am not sure how bankruptcy works exactly but from what I've heard they can take away any assets over a certain amount, so he can potentially lose a lot depending on what he has. I could be wrong though.
        In the US, when you file bankruptcy, this is what happens:
        • You have to report all your assets and debts to the court;
        • Your creditors are notified that you are filing bankruptcy so they can file claims;
        • They sell all your stuff (but you get to keep things like a car, your primary house, etc, but if they are too valuable, they will be sold too)
        • The proceeds are distributed amongst they creditors.
        • If the creditors are "secured" by collateral, then they will get the money from the collateral first.
        • If they are unsecured, like Faceook, they would get what's left over.
        • Your debts are discharged (except things like student loans and back taxes
        )

        Basically, Facebook will not get anything, but he will lose all his stuff.
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  • Profile picture of the author Troy Trump
    Fined $100 for each spam message. Hope he was promoting some REALLY profitable offers
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  • Profile picture of the author buyandsale
    well then he has been earned then more than that for spamming ...
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Brian
    Is tagging friends to a photo which is actually an ad for something considered spamming? It is rampant all over FB.
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  • Profile picture of the author zach98
    To use facebook you should post on your wall and your friends will automatically see your messages if they set their wall settings like that. To post on someone else 's wall without their permission is spamming. I hate that action myself. If you want to market simply talk to the person or private message them not into their wall. Such simple method ignored caused him $$$. Tsk. Tsk.
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  • Profile picture of the author jasonblake10
    Originally Posted by Joe.Mc View Post

    This bit made me chuckle, I think not having a facebook account is the least of his worries at the moment lol
    He probably wished they had banned him before he got into this mess.
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      It struck me that this guy was more blackhat than ordinary spammers...

      He was breaking into accounts of other people to send the emails, so he was stealing private data to carry on his version of commerce...

      I think it is deceptive to define this as only a spam case, when in fact it looks as if it could be more about hacking and phishing than spamming...
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  • Profile picture of the author daalle
    He could start a new "facebook" and earn money from that to pay the money.

    But, again he could also hack Wikipedia and put adsense on it.
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  • Profile picture of the author tombuckland
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      There's a perception this would be included in the bankruptcy - and it seems the spammer thinks he's in the clear.

      However, the new Bankruptcy laws have exceptions and one of them is liability for court ordered payments for a crime or fraud, etc - and

      Liability resulting from the commission of a crime, including fraud, theft, larceny, embezzlement, robbery. This ban applies at the time of discharge and is covers all debts incurred at any time without limitation, including all court ordered restitution.
      This is from a list of items that cannot be dismissed by bankruptcy - oops. Another court might reduce the judgment but I think this will follow this person for a long time.

      I'm not a lawyer, either, but thinking that he'll be in the clear by filing bankruptcy is probably not realistic.

      kay
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        There's a perception this would be included in the bankruptcy - and it seems the spammer thinks he's in the clear.

        However, the new Bankruptcy laws have exceptions and one of them is liability for court ordered payments for a crime or fraud, etc - and



        This is from a list of items that cannot be dismissed by bankruptcy - oops. Another court might reduce the judgment but I think this will follow this person for a long time.

        I'm not a lawyer, either, but thinking that he'll be in the clear by filing bankruptcy is probably not realistic.

        kay
        It was MY understanding that FRAUD wasn't dismissed EITHER, but it seems like it often is. 8-(

        I hope you are right though.

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author winsoar
    I cant really believe that. $100 per message? Promoting marijuana? Making the messages appear to come from friends? Seems all a bit fishy.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris30K
    Freakin idiots...spamming doesn't get you in trouble...unless you send 4 million of them. lol

    If they would stop being so greedy, maybe he wouldn't be recieving a life changing fine lol.
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  • Profile picture of the author evanlambda
    Facebook will likely never see a dime for this, it is mostly to make a statement
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  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    That's kinda hard to fathom. A billion dollar fine.

    Ok, so they reduce it to a mere 10 million. lol Forget it. Right,
    they know it's not about getting any money, etc.

    I don't know if the guy's in jail or what. But if he's not, no one
    should be surprised if he disappears forever. Not whacked. More
    like new life with new ID, etc.

    He has every reason to do that. Life will never be normal for him,
    anyway. He's permanently indentured to someone.

    In some ways it seems the only logical thing for him to do.


    Ken
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  • Profile picture of the author HigherPrThanGod
    So this guy's been fined a billion dollars while companies like Goldman Sachs continue to operate? Goldman admited (in a court of law) that software they created could be used to manipulate markets. Haha.. And of course they would never do such a thing, only the EX-WORKER.. lol

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    • Profile picture of the author Zukario
      I think that this guy will take all his lifetime to pay the fined unless he is very very rich
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      • Profile picture of the author HigherPrThanGod
        Originally Posted by Zukario View Post

        I think that this guy will take all his lifetime to pay the fined unless he is very very rich
        He'd be better of to just go to jail where the state will have to pay for his housing and food. It's, financially speaking, a better proposition. I think this will happen in America. It's so easy to get into prison because we have so many laws now. People will not pay taxes and/or fines (because they can't) and will rather go to jail in order to get free housing and food.

        A nation which lives beyond its means is destined to live beneath it.
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  • Profile picture of the author ReachOneMedia
    he will probably take arrangement with the court to pay like $1 per month until the debt is paid off... The court in quebec cannot define the amount the guilty will pay. the guy take an arrangement with the court and he must pay the amount each month until the debt is paid off... I heard that somewhere...
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Cheesman
    I agree with Steve, by the way Steve how you been? I haven't been around for awhile so haven't seen you for awhile..

    Great to be back again

    Dennis
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  • Profile picture of the author Dean Jackson
    DAMN!

    Why do people get greedy?

    I saw this doco on a guy who started making EXACT copies of a casino chip. He filed a coin down, got the exact metal compositions, and bought the metal cutters and press..

    Then he slowly and quietly started cashing in!

    However, the guy got way too greedy and started paying himself in the hundreds of thousands. NOT a good way to keep a low profile.

    If it was me, I would have had my guard up around the clock and bailed out as soon as I hit enough to get a few properties

    - Dean
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  • Profile picture of the author Dwight Anthony
    That's a boatload of WSOs !
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  • Profile picture of the author filfy
    I am sure that the level that he was spamming at is the reason for the lawsuit. But was it fraudulent spam techniques beyond the common facebook marketing tactics most people use, or was it the high level? I guess there doesn't seem to be a fine line as to what will get you in trouble as they can always go after what they consider spam.

    Not sure if I read whether he made money from this. But unless it was significant, I doubt Facebook gets much out of this unless he had some assets or money in the bank.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rough Outline
    Same, you just imagine him in court...

    Judge; "You've been fined $1billion for spamming Facebook..."

    Spammer; "Pfft, who cares, I'll file for bankruptcy"

    Judge; "...and you've been banned from making any more Facebook accounts"

    Spammer; "ARGHHHHHH COME ON! WHAT THE F**K! THAT'S NOT FAIR!"

    Originally Posted by Joe.Mc View Post

    This bit made me chuckle, I think not having a facebook account is the least of his worries at the moment lol
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  • Profile picture of the author stephen de vries
    1 bil, its like asking for ransom. what are they going to do if he cant pay? throw him on eprison.com?
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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin Perry
    It's funny that some people think that he will actually be paying this. He doesn't have anywhere near $1 billion dollars, so his only course of action would be to file for bankruptcy...meaning that facebook, the government, or whoever will not see a dime.

    Maybe he was smart enough that he has a shoebox full of money...but I doubt it.

    Kevin
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