My Failed Experiment And Why I Don't Depend On Affiliates

75 replies
Let me start off by saying in this post that I am not knocking affiliates. You
guys work very hard at what you do and should be applauded for your effort.

They just don't work for me.

I am posting this now because the contest is over and thus there is no
hidden agenda there.

This is what I did.

On October 10, I emailed a list of over 5,000 people. I essentially ran an
affiliate contest. I offered 3 top prizes, quite generous. The contest ran
until today.

Out of the 5,000 plus emails, I got back 8 replies from people even
interested in the contest, even with the generous top prizes.

Out of those 8 people promoting, there were a total of...

ZERO sales.

I did provide promotional materials and offered to help any way I could.

This is why I don't rely on affiliate marketers. For me, for whatever
reason, it just doesn't work.

If it was a matter of the products not converting, I'd say okay. But I sell
them like hotcakes and the one affiliate that I did have, until he got
bored with selling my stuff, sold over 100 each month like clockwork.

But he was the only one...and that's with 3 years of product creation
under my belt.

I don't know what it is. I also don't have the time to try to figure it out.

Thank God I make a nice living selling my own stuff.

God Bless guys like Dean Shainin who got me to promote his latest
product, who seems to be doing very well with affiliates. I know I'm
selling quite a few. But then again, I review the product and offer some
nice bonuses. So it helps.

Bottom line: It's not easy to find good affiliates. So, if you do, HANG ONTO
THEM FOR DEAR LIFE.
#affiliates #depend #experiment #failed
  • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
    Hey Steve,

    How were they promoting (the ones that took part of course!)?

    Did they alter your promotional material? Have they made sales in
    the past? Was the promotional material proven to convert/presell?

    How much traffic did they send, from which sources?


    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

    Let me start off by saying in this post that I am not knocking affiliates. You
    guys work very hard at what you do and should be applauded for your effort.

    They just don't work for me.

    I am posting this now because the contest is over and thus there is no
    hidden agenda there.

    This is what I did.

    On October 10, I emailed a list of over 5,000 people. I essentially ran an
    affiliate contest. I offered 3 top prizes, quite generous. The contest ran
    until today.

    Out of the 5,000 plus emails, I got back 8 replies from people even
    interested in the contest, even with the generous top prizes.

    Out of those 8 people promoting, there were a total of...

    ZERO sales.

    I did provide promotional materials and offered to help any way I could.

    This is why I don't rely on affiliate marketers. For me, for whatever
    reason, it just doesn't work.

    If it was a matter of the products not converting, I'd say okay. But I sell
    them like hotcakes and the one affiliate that I did have, until he got
    bored with selling my stuff, sold over 100 each month like clockwork.

    But he was the only one...and that's with 3 years of product creation
    under my belt.

    I don't know what it is. I also don't have the time to try to figure it out.

    Thank God I make a nice living selling my own stuff.

    God Bless guys like Dean Shainin who got me to promote his latest
    product, who seems to be doing very well with affiliates. I know I'm
    selling quite a few. But then again, I review the product and offer some
    nice bonuses. So it helps.

    Bottom line: It's not easy to find good affiliates. So, if you do, HANG ONTO
    THEM FOR DEAR LIFE.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243234].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Nick Brighton View Post

      Hey Steve,

      How were they promoting (the ones that took part of course!)?

      Did they alter your promotional material? Have they made sales in
      the past? Was the promotional material proven to convert/presell?

      How much traffic did they send, from which sources?
      Nick, from what I was able to get out of my stats, it looked like not one
      of them even got their promotions going.

      What did they do? I have no idea. Nobody got back to me after I
      replied to them with the materials.

      You can lead a horse to water my friend, but you can't make them drink
      it.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243242].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Shannon Herod
        In my opinion it is tougher to actually go to your customer base for affiliates.

        What I have found is the customer base is usually not as marketing savvy as New army.

        But, if you go out and seek proven marketers to promote your product you will have a much better return on investment in my opinion.

        Now, that's not saying you need to go out and approach all the big guns in the industry. That is just saying go out and find some C. and B. players that have a couple thousand to 10,000 people on their list. Then, you'll start to see some results.

        Unfortunately, most of our customers will not or do not take the time to actually market products. It might be that they do not know how, or it might be that they are just too lazy. Either way, you usually do not find top affiliates from your customer base.

        That is from my experience.

        Shannon
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243267].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by Shannon Herod View Post

          In my opinion it is tougher to actually go to your customer base for affiliates.

          What I have found is the customer base is usually not as marketing savvy as New army.

          But, if you go out and seek proven marketers to promote your product you will have a much better return on investment in my opinion.

          Now, that's not saying you need to go out and approach all the big guns in the industry. That is just saying go out and find some C. and B. players that have a couple thousand to 10,000 people on their list. Then, you'll start to see some results.

          Unfortunately, most of our customers will not or do not take the time to actually market products. It might be that they do not know how, or it might be that they are just too lazy. Either way, you usually do not find top affiliates from your customer base.

          That is from my experience.

          Shannon

          Shannon, that makes sense. These are people who are learning from me
          and since most are newbies, I guess it's a lot to ask for them to be top
          affiliates.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243272].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Money on the Side
          Originally Posted by Shannon Herod View Post

          In my opinion it is tougher to actually go to your customer base for affiliates.

          What I have found is the customer base is usually not as marketing savvy as New army.

          But, if you go out and seek proven marketers to promote your product you will have a much better return on investment in my opinion.

          Now, that's not saying you need to go out and approach all the big guns in the industry. That is just saying go out and find some C. and B. players that have a couple thousand to 10,000 people on their list. Then, you'll start to see some results.

          Unfortunately, most of our customers will not or do not take the time to actually market products. It might be that they do not know how, or it might be that they are just too lazy. Either way, you usually do not find top affiliates from your customer base.

          That is from my experience.

          Shannon
          I agree 100%...the great thing about the Internet is that there will always be more buyers than sellers.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243524].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Ken Preuss
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Nick, from what I was able to get out of my stats, it looked like not one
        of them even got their promotions going.
        THAT is why you gave up on affiliates? None of those 8 people even got their promotions going. So how is your experiment remotely representative of what's possible with affiliates?

        Let's be honest with ourselves for a moment. Your life story is "I can do it myself." Heck, you wear it as a badge of honor. Everything you write, everything you teach, everything you do screams it.

        There isn't anything wrong with that. Not at all. But the reality is it has absolutely nothing - zero -to do with affiliate marketing.

        How do I know it has nothing to do with affiliate marketing?

        Because people who aren't living with "I can do it myself" are making thousands and even millions of dollars through affiliate marketing every single month.

        Ken
        Signature

        Coming soon for all you IM junkies... The Internet Daily Show

        A Secret to Success: Making serious money online or offline is not complex unto itself - we're the ones who complicate it. Simply sell them what they are already buying.

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243276].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by Ken Preuss View Post

          THAT is why you gave up on affiliates? None of those 8 people even got their promotions going. So how is your experiment remotely representative of what's possible with affiliates?

          Let's be honest with ourselves for a moment. Your life story is "I can do it myself." Heck, you wear it as a badge of honor. Everything you write, everything you teach, everything you do screams it.

          There isn't anything wrong with that. Not at all. But the reality is it has absolutely nothing - zero -to do with affiliate marketing.

          How do I know it has nothing to do with affiliate marketing?

          Because people who aren't living with "I can do it myself" are making thousands and even millions of dollars through affiliate marketing every single month.

          Ken

          Ken, you completely misunderstood my post. I am not knocking affiliate
          marketing. I do it myself. I am very good at it.

          But for whatever reason, I don't have what it takes to recruit an army
          of affiliates. The fact that I emailed a list of over 5,000 marketers who
          actually buy from me, love my stuff, get my reports and my newsletters
          and hang on my every word, and could only get 8 people to show any
          interest, shows that I don't have what it takes to recruit affiliates. It's
          obviously an art and one I haven't mastered. That's all I'm saying.

          Nothing more.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243498].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Nick, from what I was able to get out of my stats, it looked like not one
        of them even got their promotions going.

        What did they do? I have no idea. Nobody got back to me after I
        replied to them with the materials.

        You can lead a horse to water my friend, but you can't make them drink
        it.
        Wow, so they didn't even TRY? Not even the top affiliates who have already
        made money promoting for you in the past? That's crazy.

        Could it simply be increased distractions/competition from other merchants?
        Were your prizes juicy enough for them?

        Apart from that, all I would say is what made you promote Dean's program? Perhaps
        the clue to how he manages to harvest a such a huge army of affiliates lies in how
        he persuaded YOU to get on board to?

        With all said and done, I agree that getting super affiliates is hard work and the
        fairy tale of "just putting a product on Clickbank and letting millions of people sell
        it for you" isn't quite what it cracks up to be.

        A dedicated affiliate manager would be my choice, but there goes a chunk of your
        profits for sure.

        The underlying problem is that affiliates are affluent. There's a real bridge to cross
        with loyalty and no matter how close you are to them through your emails/other
        communications, the truth is that they are driven by money so focus and loyalty is
        always going to be tarnished with the sheer amount of competitive merchants out
        there in the world.

        But still, if you have affiliates who run long standing websites and make residuals
        from your program every month, there's no reason why they would go out of their
        way to drop your program that easily.

        I think before long, people will begin to introduce real sales contracts (just like in
        the real world) so that they can hire staff full time to get the sales coming in and
        there is no easy way for them to squirm off at the drop of a dice.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243289].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by Nick Brighton View Post

          Apart from that, all I would say is what made you promote Dean's program?
          Honestly, I just wanted to help Dean out. I reviewed the product, liked
          what I saw, so I agreed to promote it. He didn't even have to offer me
          any prizes.

          But that's just me. No, I don't expect people to be like me. I realize that
          most affiliates are quite mercenary and it's all about what's in it for them, but
          if yous saw the top prize for this contest, you would have jumped all over
          it I'm sure. It was more than generous.

          Anyway, I'm not sweating it. And I'm not going to let myself get dragged
          into the negativity that I know is coming down the pike for this post. Seems
          that because I can't recruit affiliates and don't care, I'm, well, whatever,

          So be it. I can't let it bother me.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243512].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Marian Berghes
    Steve Im just gonna say what a couple of my friends that are on your list told me. They all told me basically the same thing: That your sites look to "old-ish" in terms of design, and they thought that your products were not professional enough because of that among other stuff like copy etc...

    Now...I don't want to pick a fight with you or something, nor I will give any names. I just told you what they told me.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243268].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Michael Dominic
    Steven, was the list you e-mailed a list of affiliates?

    The reason I ask is because I remember reading a post of an experiment done with an affiliate mailing list. There was very little response. The reasoning was because people (affiliates) probably entered in their e-mail that they designate for junk, spam, or freebies.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243273].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author RC7000
    Perhaps you didn't offer them enough.

    Shock!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243274].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author RGallowitz
    The best way to get affiliates to seriously promote your stuff is to fire up your skype and have a short conversation with them. Ok...obviously...if it's hundreds and hundreds then it won't work but certain key affiliates need to hear from you on a more personal level.

    Also, affiliates are becoming more and more picky these days. If your copy is not up to par and your sales graphics look poor they just get sniff in the nose. It sucks, but it happens all the time.
    Signature
    Make INSANE money by promoting PHYSICAL affiliate products.
    The one and only "GALLO Affiliate System" -
    >> Click Here! <<
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243322].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Maria Gudelis
    Hey Steve, urrrr...in all fairness, I was one of the 8 and how I wanted to promote is via a teleseminar -as my own sites/videos/etc. I promote mostly my own stuff or a $1,000 affiliate commission product, so that is why a teleseminar would have been a good choice - and in the past have brought great sales.

    I did email you with the opportunity to put you on a teleseminar and alas, your answer was that your schedule was too crazy busy and if you might be able to give me a day or so last minute notice ...if that would be ok. I did reply that I was ok with that as long as I wasn't travelling and never received last minute notice from you - so no teleseminar.

    Your products are fantastic, its just some of us do sell our own stuff too, are pretty busy as well, and sell higher priced / commissioned products so just wanted you to hear this explanation purely from a neutral standpoint of explanation.

    Cheers, Mia
    Signature

    Brand NEW: How To Dominate Facebook SEO - LIVE Coaching - Closes SOON! Get In Now Click Here


    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243327].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author jbsmith
      Steve - what I have found effective in the past is to really work on a couple of big names, then the remainder will take the promotion more seriously (herd mentality).

      How do you get these big names?

      - Go to seminars and form a relationship, then keep in contact with friendly communication where you sometimes help them out (supporting them on the forums, send them some content you developed especially for them, offer to do an interview and have it transcribed where you share the rights, etc...) Then, they are there when you need em.

      - Buy their products - it's easier to ask them to promote you (or at least review your product and site) if you have purchased something from them. We, as product publishers know that we respect customers very highly and typically always respond to them - correct?

      - Give them an offer they can't refuse. What can you do for them? Can you offer them a month's ad on your blog? Can you write 10 articles for them to use? Can you develop a custom report for them? Yes, this takes some work, but knowing that one big name can mean a dozen smaller (potentially even more lucrative) affiliates will actively promote will make it worthwhile.

      - Give these elite affiliates 1-hour head-start in promoting over the others

      It all comes down to relationships - if you build these relationships over time with the top names, they will support you when you need it...even if they can't mail for you, they can put their name behind your products and that will make a big difference.

      Jeff
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243357].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by miaroman View Post

      Hey Steve, urrrr...in all fairness, I was one of the 8 and how I wanted to promote is via a teleseminar -as my own sites/videos/etc. I promote mostly my own stuff or a $1,000 affiliate commission product, so that is why a teleseminar would have been a good choice - and in the past have brought great sales.

      I did email you with the opportunity to put you on a teleseminar and alas, your answer was that your schedule was too crazy busy and if you might be able to give me a day or so last minute notice ...if that would be ok. I did reply that I was ok with that as long as I wasn't travelling and never received last minute notice from you - so no teleseminar.

      Your products are fantastic, its just some of us do sell our own stuff too, are pretty busy as well, and sell higher priced / commissioned products so just wanted you to hear this explanation purely from a neutral standpoint of explanation.

      Cheers, Mia

      Mia, thanks. Okay, so that explains part of it. I would have loved to have
      done the teleseminar but with my schedule it was absolutely impossible.

      But I do understand. Affiliate marketing is not what it was 5 years ago.
      You need to be more hands on and more specialized. But imagine trying
      to do teleseminars with 100 affiliates. I'd lose my mind.

      I appreciate your interest and your attempts. Like I said, I'm not blaming
      anybody and as I also said, I just don't have what it takes to attract
      affiliates. So it's a good thing I can sell my own stuff or I'd be on a street
      corner with a tin cup, dark glasses and a monkey.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243520].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Mike Bogowski
    It sounds more like you cant depend on finding affiliates from a mailing list of people who dont want to be affiliates. Thats backward logic.

    Come on Steven, you know the basics. You're targeting the wrong people here.

    You need to find people who are interested in selling your stuff who have experience in selling stuff like yours. I think the moment you embrace affiliates your business is going to take on a whole new level.

    You just need to [successfully] get your feet wet.
    Signature

    Puppets are people too

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243340].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Mike Benkovich View Post

      It sounds more like you cant depend on finding affiliates from a mailing list of people who dont want to be affiliates. Thats backward logic.
      Or who most likely don't know how to be.

      This experiment was a failure before he even hit the send button.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243409].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Mike Benkovich View Post

      It sounds more like you cant depend on finding affiliates from a mailing list of people who dont want to be affiliates. Thats backward logic.

      Come on Steven, you know the basics. You're targeting the wrong people here.

      You need to find people who are interested in selling your stuff who have experience in selling stuff like yours. I think the moment you embrace affiliates your business is going to take on a whole new level.

      You just need to [successfully] get your feet wet.
      You're telling what to do but you're not telling me how to do it. The only
      thing I know how to do, very well, is get JVs to create products and
      promote them with another person. There is NO way I can put in that
      much work to get somebody to promote my products already created. It's
      too time consuming a process. And if I want to get an army of 100
      affiliates, it's all I'd be doing every hour of the day.

      Unless you have a better way. But again, I don't know it, so I can't do
      what I don't know how to do.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243526].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Mike Bogowski
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        You're telling what to do but you're not telling me how to do it. The only
        thing I know how to do, very well, is get JVs to create products and
        promote them with another person. There is NO way I can put in that
        much work to get somebody to promote my products already created. It's
        too time consuming a process. And if I want to get an army of 100
        affiliates, it's all I'd be doing every hour of the day.

        Unless you have a better way. But again, I don't know it, so I can't do
        what I don't know how to do.
        Fair Enough... Please take this as constructive criticism...

        Change Your Attitude
        Your whole mindset is wrong and if you aren't willing to change it give up right now. If a newbie has the attitude that its all too hard and not worth the effort then guess what? It is too hard and not worth the effort! You are too stuck in doing things your way, even though its quite obvious that creating affiliates will work. You need to approach it with a positive attitude as if you were a complete newbie.

        Stop Complaining About Your Lack of Affiliates in the Forum
        Every week or so I see a post from you complaining about how hard it is to find affiliates and how they aren't worth your time. Then you go out and try to recruit some. Chances are a substantial number of your subscribers are members of this forum and know this.

        If that's your attitude about affiliates they wont want to deal with you, take emails from you or work with you.

        Spruce Up Your Products
        Your sales pages look like they are made in 1999. We have choices of THOUSANDS of products to promote. If someone is scanning the clickbank marketplace and clicks to your website they're going to click straight back. Why would I promote a make money product from someone who hasnt even spent money on a nice design.

        But ugly pages sell, its all about the copy blah blah blah. For affiliates it isnt. If I come across a boring bland sales page I'm not even going to read the copy, ill click away and find a professional looking website WITH good sales copy.

        Rebrand
        I'll promote something if its either brand new or already promoted heavily. If a product has been sitting in the marketplace for a year with a gravity of 3 my assumption is that something is wrong with it. Rebrand your products with catchy names, smarter graphics and a new USP. Give people a reason to check it out again.

        Outsource
        Stop doing everything yourself!!! Grab a copy of affiliate elite and find affiliates who are promoting similar products and outsource someone to recruit people for you.

        You mention your marketing costs are almost zero and that you make 6 figures a year. You could easily drop 10K of that money intro promotion and double your income.

        In the end though its your mindset and negative attitude towards affiliates that is letting you down (in my opinion). If you aren't willing to think positively about it then don't waste your time trying anymore. Keep doing what you're doing, its obviously working for you.
        Signature

        Puppets are people too

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243717].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by Mike Benkovich View Post

          Fair Enough... Please take this as constructive criticism...

          Change Your Attitude
          Your whole mindset is wrong and if you aren't willing to change it give up right now. If a newbie has the attitude that its all too hard and not worth the effort then guess what? It is too hard and not worth the effort! You are too stuck in doing things your way, even though its quite obvious that creating affiliates will work. You need to approach it with a positive attitude as if you were a complete newbie.

          Stop Complaining About Your Lack of Affiliates in the Forum
          Every week or so I see a post from you complaining about how hard it is to find affiliates and how they aren't worth your time. Then you go out and try to recruit some. Chances are a substantial number of your subscribers are members of this forum and know this.

          If that's your attitude about affiliates they wont want to deal with you, take emails from you or work with you.

          Spruce Up Your Products
          Your sales pages look like they are made in 1999. We have choices of THOUSANDS of products to promote. If someone is scanning the clickbank marketplace and clicks to your website they're going to click straight back. Why would I promote a make money product from someone who hasnt even spent money on a nice design.

          But ugly pages sell, its all about the copy blah blah blah. For affiliates it isnt. If I come across a boring bland sales page I'm not even going to read the copy, ill click away and find a professional looking website WITH good sales copy.

          Rebrand
          I'll promote something if its either brand new or already promoted heavily. If a product has been sitting in the marketplace for a year with a gravity of 3 my assumption is that something is wrong with it. Rebrand your products with catchy names, smarter graphics and a new USP. Give people a reason to check it out again.

          Outsource
          Stop doing everything yourself!!! Grab a copy of affiliate elite and find affiliates who are promoting similar products and outsource someone to recruit people for you.

          You mention your marketing costs are almost zero and that you make 6 figures a year. You could easily drop 10K of that money intro promotion and double your income.

          In the end though its your mindset and negative attitude towards affiliates that is letting you down (in my opinion). If you aren't willing to think positively about it then don't waste your time trying anymore. Keep doing what you're doing, its obviously working for you.
          Thanks Mike. Now that's what I call excellent advice. It at least explains
          how to prepare for getting the affiliates (sprucing up pages, etc.) but
          without a plan (surely there has to be one somewhere) to actually do the
          recruiting, I'm still at square one as far as "Okay, so what now?" I have a
          great product, cool looking sales page that kicks ass and $15,000 worth
          of sales copy.

          I still don't know how to go about getting an army of affiliates. And having
          to get them one at a time seems to be the slow way of going about this.
          There surely must be a quicker way.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243754].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Tom B
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            Thanks Mike. Now that's what I call excellent advice. It at least explains
            how to prepare for getting the affiliates (sprucing up pages, etc.) but
            without a plan (surely there has to be one somewhere) to actually do the
            recruiting, I'm still at square one as far as "Okay, so what now?" I have a
            great product, cool looking sales page that kicks ass and $15,000 worth
            of sales copy.

            I still don't know how to go about getting an army of affiliates. And having
            to get them one at a time seems to be the slow way of going about this.
            There surely must be a quicker way.


            What type of price range are your products that you want affiliates to promote?
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243785].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

              What type of price range are your products that you want affiliates to promote?
              They range from $47 to $97.

              I know my very low end products ($27 and under) aren't going to have
              much affiliate appeal. And yes, I know, if I took the time to put together
              a TS2 type of deal complete with the DVDs, notebook and all the bells and
              whistles on the sales page and tons of incentives, I'd have people rushing
              to sell it. Believe me, I know what I have to do to have folks coming to me.

              I'm just not ready for that yet. The work involved for that kind of product
              and that kind of launch is more than I want to take on...at least right now.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243789].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                They range from $47 to $97.

                I know my very low end products ($27 and under) aren't going to have
                much affiliate appeal. And yes, I know, if I took the time to put together
                a TS2 type of deal complete with the DVDs, notebook and all the bells and
                whistles on the sales page and tons of incentives, I'd have people rushing
                to sell it. Believe me, I know what I have to do to have folks coming to me.

                I'm just not ready for that yet. The work involved for that kind of product
                and that kind of launch is more than I want to take on...at least right now.

                The beauty of this is you know what you can do. It is just a matter of when or if you want to. I would give up on the affiliates until you are ready and make time to do it the right way.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243826].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                  Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                  The beauty of this is you know what you can do. It is just a matter of when or if you want to. I would give up on the affiliates until you are ready and make time to do it the right way.
                  More sensible advice. Exactly.

                  Thanks Thomas.
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243830].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author Hamida Harland
                    I still don't know how to go about getting an army of affiliates. And having
                    to get them one at a time seems to be the slow way of going about this.
                    There surely must be a quicker way.
                    How about doing a relaunch? If you haven't read Product Launch Formula your chance to grab a copy is coming up soon . A proper launch should get you lots of affiliates, and the more affiliates you have the more you'll get once your CB gravity improves. Once you've spruced up your sales page with better graphics and copy, added lots of affiliate tools etc you could get an announcement made at JVNotifyPro about your launch date. If you participate a bit in the forum over there you'll find plenty of marketers who might be willing to do a JV with you.
                    Signature
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243850].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                      Originally Posted by Hamida Pall View Post

                      How about doing a relaunch? If you haven't read Product Launch Formula your chance to grab a copy is coming up soon . A proper launch should get you lots of affiliates, and the more affiliates you have the more you'll get once your CB gravity improves. Once you've spruced up your sales page with better graphics and copy, added lots of affiliate tools etc you could get an announcement made at JVNotifyPro about your launch date. If you participate a bit in the forum over there you'll find plenty of marketers who might be willing to do a JV with you.
                      Hamida, more excellent advice. Basically this all comes down to a bit of work
                      on my part. It's a matter of finding the time to do it.
                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243861].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author Hamida Harland
                        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                        Hamida, more excellent advice. Basically this all comes down to a bit of work
                        on my part. It's a matter of finding the time to do it.
                        It'd probably be a huge amount of work (I'd have alot of trouble finding that kind of time myself) - but it might be worth it in the long run because once you have a decent gravity the affiliates will come to you rather than the other way around.

                        Your product is much better than alot of the stuff that's pimped by affiliates at product launches, so you shouldn't be afraid to push the boat out with it.

                        I guess you could always hire a JV broker or someone experienced to co-ordinate the launch for you.
                        Signature
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243886].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author Kevin Flask
                      Hi Steven,

                      I just wanted to spring off of Nicola's first post. Specifically the latter part of being out of my league.

                      You have identified your target market. Simply, new comers to internet marketing with very little knowledge. I am one of your cutomers. I can relate to a lot of your description of your cutomer base.

                      I can't be sure, but from my perspective, your customers may not be in a position to market your products. Myself for example. Until I experience a level of "consistent" success, I cannot in good conscious promote anything in the MMO niche.

                      I'm going to have to prove to myself what works.

                      And believe me...When things start to work and keep working...

                      I will promote the heck out of those products and marketers that helped to get me there.

                      So, I think it was said earlier...you went to your customers, new comers, as if they are affiliates.

                      I hope this helps Steven.

                      Oh and...Don't ever stop.

                      My problem is, and it
                      always has been, I am too honest with people. I tell it like it is because
                      I don't want people to think things will be a cakewalk, because they're
                      not.

                      I'm not a salesman, never was. I'm way too honest for this profession.
                      All the best,

                      Kevin
                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243898].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                        Thanks all. I get it. I mean I REALLY get it.

                        I know what I have to do.

                        Okay, I'm going to work on my first "Real" product suitable for affiliates for
                        2009. I know what I have to do and I'm going to do it.

                        Enough talk...time to get serious if I don't want to do all the work myself
                        the rest of my life.

                        I just need somebody who's gone the whole 9 yards to give me a rough idea
                        of what kind of budget I'm going to need to get this done. What are we
                        looking at? 10K, 20K, what?

                        Thanks.
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243901].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author marcanthony
                        Maybe you should try to have the best of both worlds...

                        You admit to being in somewhat of a comfort zone with what you've been doing. You have a system that works for you and it's proven to bring in a steady income for you.

                        I think that a lot of the criticism here is valid as to why it may be hard to recruit affiliates for your product.

                        Maybe you should continue to do what's been working for you and in the meantime create a brand new product, with a more up-to-date sales page that affiliates may be more willing to promote.

                        Considering how easy it is for you to crank out quality content, I'm sure that you won't have a problem banging out a new product overnight.
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[244295].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
                        It helps a LOT of you have:

                        # 1: Very high conversion rates. Or more accurately your affiliates get paid very high value for each visitor they send to your site.

                        # 2: Very generous commissions.

                        Again it all hinges on the value your affiliates get for each prospect they send to your site.

                        The other area you might want to consider is the nature of your products.

                        Often you may find it hard to get really good affiliates if the products you're selling compete directly with theirs.

                        If you're selling products that are related but completely non-competitive it's a whole lot easier to get gun affiliates promoting your products without even trying.

                        Kindest regards,
                        Andrew Cavanagh
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[244556].message }}
                        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                          Originally Posted by AndrewCavanagh View Post

                          It helps a LOT of you have:

                          # 1: Very high conversion rates. Or more accurately your affiliates get paid very high value for each visitor they send to your site.

                          # 2: Very generous commissions.

                          Again it all hinges on the value your affiliates get for each prospect they send to your site.

                          The other area you might want to consider is the nature of your products.

                          Often you may find it hard to get really good affiliates if the products you're selling compete directly with theirs.

                          If you're selling products that are related but completely non-competitive it's a whole lot easier to get gun affiliates promoting your products without even trying.

                          Kindest regards,
                          Andrew Cavanagh

                          Thanks Andrew. Also makes 100% sense. Between you, Chris and some
                          others here who really understand affiliate marketing from the perspective
                          of the merchant (cause I'll sell just about anything that converts because
                          I know what I'm doing as an affiliate) I'll eventually understand what it
                          takes to get affiliates as a merchant and have them asking me when my
                          next product is coming out.

                          Got it!

                          On it!
                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[245943].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author OnlineMasterMind
                        Obviously I don;t know exactly what you emailed them...

                        But as a super affiliate myself...I can tell you that most good affiliates care about *numbers*...

                        Sure, you can build relationships with people and have them promote your products but I don't think that's what drives the marketplace, especially for products under $100.

                        In other words, if your product converts...they will find YOU!

                        So...

                        If you haven't given up on attracting affiliates...

                        I'd recommend you:

                        1) Work on your conversions with the sole focus of the affiliate payout
                        2) Communicate those metrics to potential affiliates (i.e. "my product is converting at an average of 1.3%, which equals a .57 earnings per click)
                        [i.e what's in it for them]

                        Good Luck Big Timer!

                        P.S. Or you can just say it doesn't work or you "can't" do it. Your choice.
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[246232].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author Seattle Mike
                    I got your email Steve. But it was on a day I got 25 others as well. Put it on the backburner and forgot all about it. I only remember one, did you send more out?

                    Like was mentioned earlier in the thread. My first thought was you have people selling hundreds, I'll never sell a hundred. never win any contest

                    If you had sent me another email every week about your affiliate program, it is quite likely I would have gotten around to it and added your products to my mix. You gotta sell me on it, make it easy with good tools and push us. We are very stubborn and up to our necks in work, ideas and not to mention the next new thing to learn.

                    Keep telling me how well they convert, how to market it easily, and how much money others are making(could make). Multiple contacts...we are your customers, a weekly affiliate program email wouldn't bother me. Since I started promoting MOM, Travis has been sending me a constant stream of tips, tools and ideas for promoting it. It's starting to seem like too much some weeks. Feels like every few days but he gives some good ideas so I still read them.

                    I know it adds to a merchants workload but it also keeps me happily promoting his product.

                    One more biggie; Don't take it as you or your products. A lot of people don't really like promoting make money products.
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243944].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author steve m
          [quote=Mike Benkovich;243717]Fair Enough... Please take this as constructive criticism...



          But ugly pages sell, its all about the copy blah blah blah. For affiliates it isnt. If I come across a boring bland sales page I'm not even going to read the copy, ill click away and find a professional looking website WITH good sales copy.

          Can some one please show me the differance between a bad sales page and a good one?

          thanks

          Steve M
          Signature
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243934].message }}
  • I think the main truth is the world and the USA is going through very hard times, and people are upset at life. Hopefully that will change soon.
    Signature
    Rock,Blues Guitarist GW Williams - Free Internet Guitar information on new guitars,top brand strings,Guitar Lessons,tab,chords,lead guitar,hot licks,lead scales,guitar tips,and techniques all Free

    Online Christian Blog Living For God Online
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243355].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author dwoodward
    Affiliates are great as long as they believe in the product you have and what you have actually converts.

    My experience is if they do not believe in it they never really get behind it and you wont make sales.

    Dave Woodward
    Legenary Marketers Host
    Signature

    Dave Woodward
    Legendary Marketers Host

    10 Free videos on what it takes to succeed in internet marketing from internet marketing legends. You can find them at http://www.legendarymarketers.com

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243507].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Clark
    Steven, "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take." - Wayne Gretzky

    Originally Posted by miaroman View Post

    Hey Steve, urrrr...in all fairness, I was one of the 8 and how I wanted to promote is via a teleseminar -as my own sites/videos/etc. I promote mostly my own stuff or a $1,000 affiliate commission product, so that is why a teleseminar would have been a good choice - and in the past have brought great sales.

    I did email you with the opportunity to put you on a teleseminar and alas, your answer was that your schedule was too crazy busy and if you might be able to give me a day or so last minute notice ...if that would be ok. I did reply that I was ok with that as long as I wasn't travelling and never received last minute notice from you - so no teleseminar.

    Your products are fantastic, its just some of us do sell our own stuff too, are pretty busy as well, and sell higher priced / commissioned products so just wanted you to hear this explanation purely from a neutral standpoint of explanation.

    Cheers, Mia
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243518].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Ernie Lo
    Come on Steve...don't give up, this doesnt sound like you mate

    Listen to this. In a little over a month, I've managed to get about 100 affiliates! And trust me, I didn't spend hours every day seeking them, so just imagine how many you could get with your reputation and if you did it properly. HUNDREDS or perhaps thousands in a few months.

    Try the following resources and see how you go:

    - Sign up as a silver member on membership millionaire. You can post your affiliate program on there, and they will mail your offer to their email list too.

    - Search the CB and PDC marketplace for similar products and then contact the product owner

    - Ask your network of friends/marketers

    Everything adds up and you will get a few every day even if you don't do any recruiting that day.

    I just know someone who as smart as you, can do well at affiliate marketing too!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243527].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Ernie Lonardo View Post

      Come on Steve...don't give up, this doesnt sound like you mate

      Listen to this. In a little over a month, I've managed to get about 100 affiliates! And trust me, I didn't spend hours every day seeking them, so just imagine how many you could get with your reputation and if you did it properly. HUNDREDS or perhaps thousands in a few months.

      Try the following resources and see how you go:

      - Sign up as a silver member on membership millionaire. You can post your affiliate program on there, and they will mail your offer to their email list too.

      - Search the CB and PDC marketplace for similar products and then contact the product owner

      - Ask your network of friends/marketers

      Everything adds up and you will get a few every day even if you don't do any recruiting that day.

      I just know someone who as smart as you, can do well at affiliate marketing too!

      Ernie, I only know how to work with people one on one in getting JVs,
      real JVs where each one contributes to the product and then they launch
      it. That's all I know. And that process is very time consuming.

      Obviously, my mind can't wrap itself around recruiting affiliates. With all
      that I know about writing and marketing, this one area just baffles me. I
      admit it. Hey, we can't all be great at everything. This area is one that I
      suck at. I don't even really know how to begin. I know how to sell my
      stuff. I just don't know how to sell others on selling it.

      If there's a coaching program that teaches this stuff (as long as it's not
      too time consuming to actually put the practice into practice) I'll sign up
      in a heartbeat. But for now, this is something that just eludes me.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243540].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
    Waggerz.. did you miss what was mentioned above by Marian?..

    Here's the deal Steve..

    For ME to promote YOUR product.. I have to slap on the crazy gear and get down 'n' dirty right?...

    For YOU to promote YOUR product.. it's different.. the social proof is in your hands...

    Give me one of your products, with a new sales page.. and get someone like Bev to re-do the copy/look and feel inside the product.... then we'll see if I can change your opinion of affiliate's...

    and let me show you why you are going about it all wrong in terms of affiliate's...

    I could pimp Dean's products all day long as an affiliate because they stack up from links right through to the sale..

    But with you it is different... your products work for YOU because YOU are the social proof behind them.. for me to push your product..I have to make excuses for the lazy look of your outfit...

    That might be a little harsh Steve, but tough love is the best form dude..

    This is said with the highest level of respect I have for anyone on this forum.. you rock dude..

    I'm not saying ALL the affiliate's thought this.. but any good affiliate's you had in your ranks will have stepped away from it because of the extra efforts that is included with your game..

    Peace

    Jay
    Signature

    Bare Murkage.........

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243532].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by JayXtreme View Post

      Waggerz.. did you miss what was mentioned above by Marian?..

      Here's the deal Steve..

      For ME to promote YOUR product.. I have to slap on the crazy gear and get down 'n' dirty right?...

      For YOU to promote YOUR product.. it's different.. the social proof is in your hands...

      Give me one of your products, with a new sales page.. and get someone like Bev to re-do the copy/look and feel inside the product.... then we'll see if I can change your opinion of affiliate's...

      and let me show you why you are going about it all wrong in terms of affiliate's...

      I could pimp Dean's products all day long as an affiliate because they stack up from links right through to the sale..

      But with you it is different... your products work for YOU because YOU are the social proof behind them.. for me to push your product..I have to make excuses for the lazy look of your outfit...

      That might be a little harsh Steve, but tough love is the best form dude..

      This is said with the highest level of respect I have for anyone on this forum.. you rock dude..

      I'm not saying ALL the affiliate's thought this.. but any good affiliate's you had in your ranks will have stepped away from it because of the extra efforts that is included with your game..

      Peace

      Jay

      Jay, that may have been the most sensible thing that anybody has said
      yet. Yes, I can walk the walk and prove that my stuff kicks ass. So yes,
      it's very easy for me to sell it, bare bones and all.

      So I guess it's decision time for me. Do I spend thousands of dollars to
      upgrade the appearance of all my products in the "hope" that maybe I'll
      get some super affiliates (never any guarantees) or do I just keep cranking
      out my tons of sales on the cheap and make a nice living?

      If you think this is an easy decision to make, it's not. You have to
      understand something. My monthly promotional expenses are next to
      nothing. So almost everything I make is pure profit. It's a joke. If I go
      "pro" and get the top designers and copywriters and on and on, what am
      I going to have left EVEN if I run a successful campaign? And if I don't,
      then what?

      I'll be the first to admit, I don't take many chances with my business. It's
      what I'm comfortable with.

      Having said all that, not getting a team of affiliates isn't going to send me
      to bed tonight crying in my pillow. I just wanted to explain why I don't
      put much effort into it. Everything I do usually results in zero results.
      You've given me a very good reason why that might be. I accept it.

      As to whether or not I someday decide to do something about it, I guess
      only time will tell.

      Right now, I'm not ready to sink that much into my business on something
      that isn't a sure thing.

      Makes me cheap? Yes.

      Makes me stupid? Maybe.

      But it also lets me sleep at night.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243558].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Jay, that may have been the most sensible thing that anybody has said
        yet. Yes, I can walk the walk and prove that my stuff kicks ass. So yes,
        it's very easy for me to sell it, bare bones and all.

        So I guess it's decision time for me. Do I spend thousands of dollars to
        upgrade the appearance of all my products in the "hope" that maybe I'll
        get some super affiliates (never any guarantees) or do I just keep cranking
        out my tons of sales on the cheap and make a nice living?

        If you think this is an easy decision to make, it's not. You have to
        understand something. My monthly promotional expenses are next to
        nothing. So almost everything I make is pure profit. It's a joke. If I go
        "pro" and get the top designers and copywriters and on and on, what am
        I going to have left EVEN if I run a successful campaign? And if I don't,
        then what?

        I'll be the first to admit, I don't take many chances with my business. It's
        what I'm comfortable with.

        Having said all that, not getting a team of affiliates isn't going to send me
        to bed tonight crying in my pillow. I just wanted to explain why I don't
        put much effort into it. Everything I do usually results in zero results.
        You've given me a very good reason why that might be. I accept it.

        As to whether or not I someday decide to do something about it, I guess
        only time will tell.

        Right now, I'm not ready to sink that much into my business on something
        that isn't a sure thing.

        Makes me cheap? Yes.

        Makes me stupid? Maybe.

        But it also lets me sleep at night.

        I don't think it's stupid Steve.. you have to do what's right for your business...

        I wasn't saying the above was good or bad for you.. I was just sayin it like it is..

        Peace

        Jay
        Signature

        Bare Murkage.........

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243567].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Melody
    Steve -

    Managing a sales team does take effort, have done it both online and offline, and over the years, it seems like the 80/20 rule is in effect 'double time' here - 20% of your reps will take up 80% of your time.....and 20% of your reps will be responsible for 80% of your income.....unfortunately, the 20% that want most of your time are RARELY in the 80% that are producing your income....

    <sigh> The fun part is always figuring out which 20% the one that is taking up your time today is going to belong to!!

    But then you have a new affiliate call and ask you to be on a radio show that he has managed to book and all of a sudden - you know which 20% you have on the phone, and it makes your day!

    Don't be down, Steve, you didn't fail with affiliates - there's a lesson in here somewhere....you just need to find it.

    Isn't the purpose of an 'experiment' to find out what works and what doesn't?
    Experiments don't fail - they just have results.....then you keep experimenting until you get the result you want......

    Good luck!
    Signature
    Our first "Digital Yard Sale"! A massive PLR Blowout Sale to help a friend pay medical expenses.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243594].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Tom B
      Banned
      I agree with Steven. I think he should give up on the affiliates. He has made it known that he can't find them and it doesn't work for him ever since he came on this forum. It is already engraved into his mind that it will not work for him and I think it is a waste of time for him to continue unless he changed his mindset.


      BTW, happy birthday Steven.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243675].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
    On a similar note Waggerz..

    Here's what Yaro Starak has to say about getting the most out of your affiliate's:

    How To Motivate Affiliates To Promote For You - Entrepreneurs-Journey.com by Yaro Starak

    Peace

    Jay
    Signature

    Bare Murkage.........

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243688].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Nicola Lane
    Ok Steve, ( was one of the list that didn't respond. Let me tell you why.

    1. this is what your e-mail said

    Here is the list of products I have registered with Clickbank and the affiliate links. Just replace the xxxxx with YOUR Clickbank ID.

    My Secret Articles

    http:// clicks.aweber.com /y/ct/ ?l=CCktN&m=1cX1v.E27qeFYz&b=VdgvNy_pPpbOxLKzRiTEkA
    When the links are clicked they go to the sales pages - there is no way from these to find the affiliate links.

    Straight away I'm confused, the first link goes to a basically blank page asking people to sign up to a newsletter - no sales page for a product, and no clickbank hoplink. This isn't a promising start!

    2. You mention prizes for the top affiliates - I'm a beginner, I was confident (OK wrongly as it turns out!) that there are plenty of more experienced people who already have campaigns going already selling your stuff, and I would have to start from scratch (this is a niche I am interested in - but I'm watching and learning at the moment I haven't taken the plunge to actually get going) and as you said:

    Newcomers, you have some catching up to do
    Quite discouraging really, I didn't think I had a chance - especially as I can't afford to do anything like PPC which seemed to be inplied from you saying:

    I will send you my top ads for each one
    and when I read that one of your affiliates sold 100 or your products in his first month - well I thought 10 was going to be difficult knowing that I was competing with people who were selling 100's . . . .

    You are normally good with words Steve, I think you may want to look at the contest newsletter that you sent, because I got the message "if you are new - don't bother trying you are out of your league"

    This newsletter didn't say "I'm looking to find some good sffiliate prospects who want to get started and keep going" This newsletter said "I need a bit of a sales boost - so can i get my super affiliates to put a bit more effort in please."

    At least that is how I saw it!
    Signature

    I like to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243776].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Nicola Lane View Post

      Ok Steve, ( was one of the list that didn't respond. Let me tell you why.

      1. this is what your e-mail said



      When the links are clicked they go to the sales pages - there is no way from these to find the affiliate links.

      Straight away I'm confused, the first link goes to a basically blank page asking people to sign up to a newsletter - no sales page for a product, and no clickbank hoplink. This isn't a promising start!

      2. You mention prizes for the top affiliates - I'm a beginner, I was confident (OK wrongly as it turns out!) that there are plenty of more experienced people who already have campaigns going already selling your stuff, and I would have to start from scratch (this is a niche I am interested in - but I'm watching and learning at the moment I haven't taken the plunge to actually get going) and as you said:



      Quite discouraging really, I didn't think I had a chance - especially as I can't afford to do anything like PPC which seemed to be inplied from you saying:



      and when I read that one of your affiliates sold 100 or your products in his first month - well I thought 10 was going to be difficult knowing that I was competing with people who were selling 100's . . . .

      You are normally good with words Steve, I think you may want to look at the contest newsletter that you sent, because I got the message "if you are new - don't bother trying you are out of your league"

      This newsletter didn't say "I'm looking to find some good sffiliate prospects who want to get started and keep going" This newsletter said "I need a bit of a sales boost - so can i get my super affiliates to put a bit more effort in please."

      At least that is how I saw it!

      Nicola, thanks for the feedback. See, sometimes the problem is in the
      communication with people. I can see your concerns and where you're
      coming from.

      Next time I'll try to write a more "uplifting" email. My problem is, and it
      always has been, I am too honest with people. I tell it like it is because
      I don't want people to think things will be a cakewalk, because they're
      not.

      I'm not a salesman, never was. I'm way too honest for this profession.

      But I'm learning.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243783].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Ernie Lo
    Steve the (membership millionaire) method I posted above takes like 5minutes of work...has gotten me 30-40 affiliates in a day or two.

    and the good thing is, once you have the affiliates, you have them for life and can get their eyes on your following products.

    But yes, getting 1 affiliate at a time can be slow and if there is some better ways, I'd like to hear about it too.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243782].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Nicola Lane
    Hi Steven, thank for being gracious about my criticism.

    it wasn't your honesty that was the problem - but what I read and what you intended didn't match.

    May I suggest that you send out a christmas/new years affiliate competition something along the lines of (You will have to tidy this up a lot!)

    Hi folks, I had a few comments from affiliates new to my products that they didn't stand a chance with my birthday competition - so I am doing a christmas competition just for them! I'm re-launching my products with new pretty websites and and want to get your help with the sales.

    Every affiliate that makes at least ten sales between xx and xx will recieve a christmas bonus of $20.

    and then for the top three prizes of: $300, $200 and $100.

    I'd love your feedback on what sort of promotional stuff you would like. Do you want text ads? banners? PLR articles that you can re-write? or a list of keywords for your own articles or PPC campaigns.

    I'm waiting for xx until this is started so that you can get back to me with what you need to help you - then I will open my new affiliate area with the goodies you have told me you want!

    Sign up now so that I can help you find a bit of gold for Christmas.



    I did say it would need tidying!
    Signature

    I like to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243816].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Nicola Lane View Post

      Hi Steven, thank for being gracious about my criticism.

      it wasn't your honesty that was the problem - but what I read and what you intended didn't match.

      May I suggest that you send out a christmas/new years affiliate competition something along the lines of (You will have to tidy this up a lot!)

      Hi folks, I had a few comments from affiliates new to my products that they didn't stand a chance with my birthday competition - so I am doing a christmas competition just for them! I'm re-launching my products with new pretty websites and and want to get your help with the sales.

      Every affiliate that makes at least ten sales between xx and xx will recieve a christmas bonus of $20.

      and then for the top three prizes of: $300, $200 and $100.

      I'd love your feedback on what sort of promotional stuff you would like. Do you want text ads? banners? PLR articles that you can re-write? or a list of keywords for your own articles or PPC campaigns.

      I'm waiting for xx until this is started so that you can get back to me with what you need to help you - then I will open my new affiliate area with the goodies you have told me you want!

      Sign up now so that I can help you find a bit of gold for Christmas.



      I did say it would need tidying!

      Nicola, actually, I like it. Naturally, this means a lot of work on my part
      and with everything else I'm doing right now, I don't know if I could
      get this ready for Christmas, but I'll sure as heck give it my best shot.

      Thanks...excellent idea. Maybe I should hire you as a consultant for my
      PR image.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243824].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
    Let me just add this...

    "I've missed more than 9,000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."

    - Michael Jordan

    Signature
    Read this SURPRISING REPORT Before You Buy ANY WSO! Click Here
    FREE REPORT: Split Test Your Landing Pages the Easy Way
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243876].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by faxinator View Post

      Let me just add this...

      "I've missed more than 9,000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."

      - Michael Jordan

      Next to Wayne Gretzky's quote, this may be one of the most popular
      sports quotes of all time.

      Yes, very true.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243879].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Terry Hatfield
    Hi Steven,

    I am afraid you are looking at the world with blinders on. Try peaking around them a little and you may see strange new things around the corner.

    Seriously though, I think your problem is you just sent your email to your list of newbies.

    Try running a wso on this forum for affiliates or an ad on clickbank or other sites that affiliate marketers visit and you may actually get someone that is already good at selling instead of people looking for free info and in info overload cycle.

    Don't give up now just try something else.

    Terry
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243881].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

      but if yous saw the top prize for this contest, you would have jumped all overit I'm sure. It was more than generous.
      Steve, I don't think affiliates are interested in trampolines for prizes, but perhaps
      I am out of the loop.

      ;-)
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243913].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Nicola Lane
    Here is a way around most of the work Stevenn,

    Contact Warrior Kate Anderson. she does some amazing sites for sale on Sitepoint - she does a "clickbank package" - sales page, images, and affiliates page. You already have the wording for your sales page - you just need a good header and ebook cover to go with them. A nice affiliates page would also be good.

    Here are a few of Kates auctions so that you can see what I am talking about.

    ? www.BloggingJackpot.com ?
    ? www.WAHStrategy.com ?
    ? www.AuctionCashGuide.com ?

    I am sure that she (or whomever she hires!) could do a similar treatment for you at a reasonable cost.

    Then just add a few bits to the affiliate page - personally i would like to see a few PLR articles, and a list of keywords. I'm sure you already have these!

    Then do your new competition newsletter, and you are all set!

    BTW, an important point for me is that if i make a certain level of sales - then i will get a bonus - I don't expect to be in the top three, but if everyone who puts in an effort is a winner, then more people will put in an effort. Well - I would!
    Signature

    I like to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243891].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Nicola Lane
    Steven,

    You don't need a new house - you just need to update the wallpaper in the existing one!

    If you really want to launch a new product with all the bells and whistles possible - and spend a small fortune! Then you can go for it.

    But your existing products are great - you just need to do a little redecorating and maybe add a new kitchen.
    Signature

    I like to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243935].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author flnz400
    Why not just pick one at a time and work with it until it's golden? Spend 2k per site.

    My Secret Articles:

    Get Karl to do a new site- 500 (fresh product images for sure)
    Get someone to do a rewrite or go over the copy- 500-1500

    Promote like hell. Move on the next.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[243948].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
    Originally Posted by p1a1u1l1 View Post

    Everyone else has pretty much covered everything in this thread so far, I will just
    add my 2 cents.

    First off I agree with everyone else.....you've made a bit of a name for yourself so
    far, now it's time to turn your name into a brand of it's own. You need to upgrade
    your sales pages and bring them into 2009 with a bang. I say carry on using you
    name as your brand because you're already fairly established.

    I also agree a re-launch would be a good idea but probably one product at a time.
    You then need to call on your network of friends and there friends to help you
    promote your new launch and build up a buzz. Maybe you could update all your
    products and call them product XYZ 2.0

    You only really need a few decent size JV partners to shoot you up the clickbank
    ranks and the rest will gather momentum. I am sure you wouldn't have a problem
    getting well known JV's if you personally contacted them a few weeks/months in
    advance. You could also consider having a pre-launch period to collect prospects
    on an early bird list who are notified first before everyone else.

    Then, arm your affiliates with , banners, auto-responder pre-launch series, solo ads,
    solo email ads, PPC ads, keyword lists, graphics etc. Make a dedicated affiliate page
    with it's own mini sales letter and access to all the tools. Make personal contact
    with yourself possible for all your affiliate so they feel supported.

    Provide decent well tested conversion rates and keep your affiliate updated daily
    with maybe new tips and tools to help build there excitement about your new launch.
    Your looking to build a buzz with your affiliates just as much as you are with your prospects.

    Plaster your affiliate program everywhere, the warrior forum, classified ads, affiliate
    directories, social bookmarking sites, forum sig and contact your marketing
    friends personally with a private invitation far in advance and maybe a
    slightly higher commission if possible.

    All of the above is just my opinion

    -paul

    Thanks Paul. My head is spinning from all that, but I get it.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[244055].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author lexilexi
    Steven,

    First I think it's brilliant that you opened up and took the courage to discuss something that didn't work. Many people are afraid to do this - and I think your approach is one that will lead to success.

    I think the best way to approach ventures and ideas is to not become personally attached to them. You try something, and if it doesn't work, oh well, you see what you can learn from it and try something else.

    I think the thing has pretty much been stated already - you can't turn a subscriber into a successful affiliate overnight.

    The good news is, you're only one step away from success by the sound of things.

    The chain snapped at the weak link but most of the links were good. The product obviously converts if one person was able to sell over 100 per month.

    Is it possible to reach this person and find out what techniques they were using to achieve sales?

    Also can you get some stats from them? I'd say you're in a good position. You have a system that has proven success, now all you gotta do is find the right team... other successful affiliates who would want to take it on.
    Signature

    "If there is no door, it becomes necessary to break out through the wall."

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[244122].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Musika
    But Steven, isn't the first WSO on your sig-line all about affiliate marketing?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[244220].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Musika View Post

      But Steven, isn't the first WSO on your sig-line all about affiliate marketing?
      Yes, it's about affiliate marketing...selling other people's products AS an
      affiliate. It's NOT about how to GET affiliates.

      They are two completely different animals.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[244241].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Musika
        Ok. I understand now.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[244245].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author warriorprocessing
    customers are not actually good affiliate material in most cases.

    warriorprocessing.com Merchant account with free authorize.net
    Signature

    Merchant Accounts with FREE Authorize.net http://WarriorProcessing.com

    QuickBooks Merchant Accounts - Fully Integrates with QuickBooks - FREE QuickBooks Software
    http://TotalProcessing.com

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[244252].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Melanie Bremner
    wow. quite the commentary here. I was thinking of starting an affiliate program for my products but now I have more concerns than I did yesterday. Yesterday I thought I just needed to make up the promo tools somehow. Now, I realize that finding affiliates might be more of an issue. Thanks for all the good tips and advice here though.
    Steven, I am sorry to hear about the bad luck. At least some of the 8 came on here to explain to you why they didn't. You can have some understanding now instead of speculating and allowing frustration to fuel your imagination.
    I am sure the next time you want to venture into this, you will have better luck with more affiliates who will produce.
    Signature
    Moms Assisting Moms
    Tips and Advice for Work at Home Moms
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[244293].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author chris_surfrider
    Generating massive results from affiliate marketing will only work if the product itself converts from COLD traffic.

    PPC. Or advertising.

    Your OWN results don't really mean much. Your clients are buying from you, not just as a result of your offer/copy.

    Same goes for list-mailouts when people contact their email lists.

    Their trust is what sells it.

    But this will always be short-lived.

    To see a long-lasting stream of affiliate driven sales, you need strong conversions from what will be their primary traffic source: COLD TRAFFIC

    It's very possible to make a VERY good living simply selling to your own list.

    But getting the multiplied, compounding effect of traffic from affiliates will only happen if:

    a) Your product converts "cold"

    AND

    b) You target active affiliates who already have traffic


    That's why it's not working for you.

    There is no other reasonable explanation.

    -Chris
    Signature

    Making 6 Figures From Affiliate Marketing is Easier Than You Think. Here's Proof:

    http://www.TheLazyMarketer.com

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[244517].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Dean Shainin
      Originally Posted by chris_surfrider View Post

      Generating massive results from affiliate marketing will only work if the product itself converts from COLD traffic.

      PPC. Or advertising.

      Your OWN results don't really mean much. Your clients are buying from you, not just as a result of your offer/copy.

      Same goes for list-mailouts when people contact their email lists.

      Their trust is what sells it.

      But this will always be short-lived.

      To see a long-lasting stream of affiliate driven sales, you need strong conversions from what will be their primary traffic source: COLD TRAFFIC

      It's very possible to make a VERY good living simply selling to your own list.

      But getting the multiplied, compounding effect of traffic from affiliates will only happen if:

      a) Your product converts "cold"

      AND

      b) You target active affiliates who already have traffic


      That's why it's not working for you.

      There is no other reasonable explanation.

      -Chris
      Hi Steven,

      Just about everything has already been said in this thread.

      You already got my PM and who's link did I send you?

      That's right... Chris from the above post knows what he is talking about.
      http://www.jv-web.com

      Why?

      There are so many mistakes marketers make when doing JV' it's insane. Including myself. I'm still learning. Primarily trying to recruit jv partners without building some sort of relationship first.

      It's vital! This is different than the relationship most of us have with our lists.

      I know you mentioned me in your original post and I Thank You too.

      Fantastic job Steven on your promo to your list. You have plenty of trusting raving fans in your list from the response and praises I received in my inbox in the last 48 hours. However, I'm getting off track here.

      Before I launched my product there were only a small handful of partners that I sent private closed door invites simply because they are the handful of people I've worked with before such as helped them do a promo, and or have a long relationship with them in some form or another. I did a test and sent just a couple invites to people I've never worked with that I've been noticing here on the Warrior Forum making leaps and bounds with their marketing efforts and not a single response which was expected.

      Also, I did not even consider sending jv invites to my entire list because their is no control of who would sign up when you send something like that out to 1,000's of subscribers. Most would probably be confused and wondering what a JV is, let alone trying to get involved in a jv promo.

      Like Chris already said it's vital that your product is tested to convert with a cold market first. I don't think you need to spend $1,000's updating your sales page and graphics. You can get a fantastic mini-site graphics package for about $297. You could probably have the sales copy done for under $1,500 but I'd have to take a look at it to see if it would have to be totally re-written from scratch.

      Oh! You can still be honest when writing powerful sales copy. I'll never understand why some marketers think they are too honest to write good sales copy. Just tell your personal story and give them the facts and benefits of what's in it for them and why.

      Cheers,
      Dean
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[245877].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Originally Posted by Dean Shainin View Post

        Hi Steven,

        Just about everything has already been said in this thread.

        You already got my PM and who's link did I send you?

        That's right... Chris from the above post knows what he is talking about.
        Joint Ventures

        Why?

        There are so many mistakes marketers make when doing JV' it's insane. Including myself. I'm still learning. Primarily trying to recruit jv partners without building some sort of relationship first.

        It's vital! This is different than the relationship most of us have with our lists.

        I know you mentioned me in your original post and I Thank You too.

        Fantastic job Steven on your promo to your list. You have plenty of trusting raving fans in your list from the response and praises I received in my inbox in the last 48 hours. However, I'm getting off track here.

        Before I launched my product there were only a small handful of partners that I sent private closed door invites simply because they are the handful of people I've worked with before such as helped them do a promo, and or have a long relationship with them in some form or another. I did a test and sent just a couple invites to people I've never worked with that I've been noticing here on the Warrior Forum making leaps and bounds with their marketing efforts and not a single response which was expected.

        Also, I did not even consider sending jv invites to my entire list because their is no control of who would sign up when you send something like that out to 1,000's of subscribers. Most would probably be confused and wondering what a JV is, let alone trying to get involved in a jv promo.

        Like Chris already said it's vital that your product is tested to convert with a cold market first. I don't think you need to spend $1,000's updating your sales page and graphics. You can get a fantastic mini-site graphics package for about $297. You could probably have the sales copy done for under $1,500 but I'd have to take a look at it to see if it would have to be totally re-written from scratch.

        Oh! You can still be honest when writing powerful sales copy. I'll never understand why some marketers think they are too honest to write good sales copy. Just tell your personal story and give them the facts and benefits of what's in it for them and why.

        Cheers,
        Dean

        Thanks Dean. I did look at your sales page...It's super sharp. I do
        understand, believe it or not. It's because I do understand that this
        isn't something I can whip together in a day. This is going to take some
        work on my part.

        I'd prefer to do this with a brand new product instead of trying to "salvage"
        one of my established ones that I personally don't have trouble selling. I
        know what I'm going to come out with and I know how. I think I also know
        the people who I want to outsource the graphics and copy to. I don't
        have the budget for $15,000 for a sales letter simply because that's a
        semester of college for my daughter and if heaven forbid the product
        bombs (no guarantees in this business) then I'm going to be in a bit of a
        pinch.

        Thank you all for some great insights into this.

        Chris, no wonder everybody has nothing but great things to say about you.
        Dean, same thing. I've yet to hear a bad word about either of you guys.

        I understand why.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[245957].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author David_Thompson
          Hey Steven,

          one thing that I notice with a couple of your salespages
          is the fact that they are just plain text and nothing else
          as you well know we are mostly visual people we love
          looking at the fancy colors and picture because it paints
          a picture we can relate to.

          I hope you can see where I'm coming from with this...

          That might be one of the reasons affiliate don't really
          feel comfortable promoting for you...

          Another thing might be you haven't been motivating
          them and educating your affiliates on how to best promote
          your products, maybe...

          Is your affiliate center setup right and it is easy for affiliate
          to get tools and links and the simple thing things...

          There are a number of factors why people don't promote
          products, it could be % or conversion of salespage.

          Anyway that's just a few things to think about...

          --David
          Signature
          JV partnership wanted, Lets grow your list for free. Nothing to do with giveaways. PM Now
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[246148].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by chris_surfrider View Post

      Generating massive results from affiliate marketing will only work if the product itself converts from COLD traffic.

      PPC. Or advertising.

      Your OWN results don't really mean much. Your clients are buying from you, not just as a result of your offer/copy.

      Same goes for list-mailouts when people contact their email lists.

      Their trust is what sells it.

      But this will always be short-lived.

      To see a long-lasting stream of affiliate driven sales, you need strong conversions from what will be their primary traffic source: COLD TRAFFIC

      It's very possible to make a VERY good living simply selling to your own list.

      But getting the multiplied, compounding effect of traffic from affiliates will only happen if:

      a) Your product converts "cold"

      AND

      b) You target active affiliates who already have traffic


      That's why it's not working for you.

      There is no other reasonable explanation.

      -Chris

      Thanks Chris...makes absolutely 100% sense.

      So I essentially need to come up with a product and copy that will
      sell even if my name was Mickey Mouse.

      Got it!

      On it!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[245937].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author TheMagicShow
    You had a similar thread in regards to clickbank a few months ago Steven, if you are a great affiliate for Dean, then take a closer look at his product, sales letter, his mini site design and add those elements to your own business.

    Affiliates are serious business minded people, they are doing their hard work to drive traffic, some even take the extra step of paying for the traffic that is driven to yout site (ppc).

    If you expect for affiliates to do well for you, then make sure to scratch their back as well, give them a landing page that closes the sale, give them a product that does not compete with their own, give them a commission base that can actually earn them a good amount of money while they promote you.

    Give them proven tools that they can use to generate sales, look at other successful marketers and see what tools/incentives they offer and try to emulate it and you too can have success.

    Affiliates are the reason why you see such high gravity and good amounts of sales on clickbank or other affiliate networks, you just have to work on a few things and you too an have twice the income and less work and affiliates can help you do that.
    Signature

    " You can either give a man a fish and feed him for a day OR teach him how to catch a fish and it will feed him for a lifetime"

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[244564].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Magic Mel View Post

      You had a similar thread in regards to clickbank a few months ago Steven, if you are a great affiliate for Dean, then take a closer look at his product, sales letter, his mini site design and add those elements to your own business.

      Affiliates are serious business minded people, they are doing their hard work to drive traffic, some even take the extra step of paying for the traffic that is driven to yout site (ppc).

      If you expect for affiliates to do well for you, then make sure to scratch their back as well, give them a landing page that closes the sale, give them a product that does not compete with their own, give them a commission base that can actually earn them a good amount of money while they promote you.

      Give them proven tools that they can use to generate sales, look at other successful marketers and see what tools/incentives they offer and try to emulate it and you too can have success.

      Affiliates are the reason why you see such high gravity and good amounts of sales on clickbank or other affiliate networks, you just have to work on a few things and you too an have twice the income and less work and affiliates can help you do that.

      Mel, more great advice. Man, you guys are really teaching me stuff
      today. I've been so stuck selling my products mode that I never really
      took the time to figure out what attracts affiliates. I know what attracts
      me, but I'm obviously an odd ball.

      Thank you all. This has been a tremendous amount of help.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[245948].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Nato Guajardo
    How are you converting that many sales with those sites without affiliates?

    If you truly are making 6 figures you really should be reinvesting that money back into your business by sprucing up your salespages.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[246176].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Nato Guajardo View Post

      How are you converting that many sales with those sites without affiliates?

      If you truly are making 6 figures you really should be reinvesting that money back into your business by sprucing up your salespages.
      Because I work my tail off.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[246178].message }}

Trending Topics