My Failed Experiment And Why I Don't Depend On Affiliates

by 75 replies
87
Let me start off by saying in this post that I am not knocking affiliates. You
guys work very hard at what you do and should be applauded for your effort.

They just don't work for me.

I am posting this now because the contest is over and thus there is no
hidden agenda there.

This is what I did.

On October 10, I emailed a list of over 5,000 people. I essentially ran an
affiliate contest. I offered 3 top prizes, quite generous. The contest ran
until today.

Out of the 5,000 plus emails, I got back 8 replies from people even
interested in the contest, even with the generous top prizes.

Out of those 8 people promoting, there were a total of...

ZERO sales.

I did provide promotional materials and offered to help any way I could.

This is why I don't rely on affiliate marketers. For me, for whatever
reason, it just doesn't work.

If it was a matter of the products not converting, I'd say okay. But I sell
them like hotcakes and the one affiliate that I did have, until he got
bored with selling my stuff, sold over 100 each month like clockwork.

But he was the only one...and that's with 3 years of product creation
under my belt.

I don't know what it is. I also don't have the time to try to figure it out.

Thank God I make a nice living selling my own stuff.

God Bless guys like Dean Shainin who got me to promote his latest
product, who seems to be doing very well with affiliates. I know I'm
selling quite a few. But then again, I review the product and offer some
nice bonuses. So it helps.

Bottom line: It's not easy to find good affiliates. So, if you do, HANG ONTO
THEM FOR DEAR LIFE.
#main internet marketing discussion forum #affiliates #depend #experiment #failed
  • Hey Steve,

    How were they promoting (the ones that took part of course!)?

    Did they alter your promotional material? Have they made sales in
    the past? Was the promotional material proven to convert/presell?

    How much traffic did they send, from which sources?


    • [1] reply
    • Nick, from what I was able to get out of my stats, it looked like not one
      of them even got their promotions going.

      What did they do? I have no idea. Nobody got back to me after I
      replied to them with the materials.

      You can lead a horse to water my friend, but you can't make them drink
      it.
      • [3] replies
  • Steve Im just gonna say what a couple of my friends that are on your list told me. They all told me basically the same thing: That your sites look to "old-ish" in terms of design, and they thought that your products were not professional enough because of that among other stuff like copy etc...

    Now...I don't want to pick a fight with you or something, nor I will give any names. I just told you what they told me.
  • Steven, was the list you e-mailed a list of affiliates?

    The reason I ask is because I remember reading a post of an experiment done with an affiliate mailing list. There was very little response. The reasoning was because people (affiliates) probably entered in their e-mail that they designate for junk, spam, or freebies.
  • Perhaps you didn't offer them enough.

    Shock!
  • The best way to get affiliates to seriously promote your stuff is to fire up your skype and have a short conversation with them. Ok...obviously...if it's hundreds and hundreds then it won't work but certain key affiliates need to hear from you on a more personal level.

    Also, affiliates are becoming more and more picky these days. If your copy is not up to par and your sales graphics look poor they just get sniff in the nose. It sucks, but it happens all the time.
  • Hey Steve, urrrr...in all fairness, I was one of the 8 and how I wanted to promote is via a teleseminar -as my own sites/videos/etc. I promote mostly my own stuff or a $1,000 affiliate commission product, so that is why a teleseminar would have been a good choice - and in the past have brought great sales.

    I did email you with the opportunity to put you on a teleseminar and alas, your answer was that your schedule was too crazy busy and if you might be able to give me a day or so last minute notice ...if that would be ok. I did reply that I was ok with that as long as I wasn't travelling and never received last minute notice from you - so no teleseminar.

    Your products are fantastic, its just some of us do sell our own stuff too, are pretty busy as well, and sell higher priced / commissioned products so just wanted you to hear this explanation purely from a neutral standpoint of explanation.

    Cheers, Mia
    • [2] replies
    • Steve - what I have found effective in the past is to really work on a couple of big names, then the remainder will take the promotion more seriously (herd mentality).

      How do you get these big names?

      - Go to seminars and form a relationship, then keep in contact with friendly communication where you sometimes help them out (supporting them on the forums, send them some content you developed especially for them, offer to do an interview and have it transcribed where you share the rights, etc...) Then, they are there when you need em.

      - Buy their products - it's easier to ask them to promote you (or at least review your product and site) if you have purchased something from them. We, as product publishers know that we respect customers very highly and typically always respond to them - correct?

      - Give them an offer they can't refuse. What can you do for them? Can you offer them a month's ad on your blog? Can you write 10 articles for them to use? Can you develop a custom report for them? Yes, this takes some work, but knowing that one big name can mean a dozen smaller (potentially even more lucrative) affiliates will actively promote will make it worthwhile.

      - Give these elite affiliates 1-hour head-start in promoting over the others

      It all comes down to relationships - if you build these relationships over time with the top names, they will support you when you need it...even if they can't mail for you, they can put their name behind your products and that will make a big difference.

      Jeff

    • Mia, thanks. Okay, so that explains part of it. I would have loved to have
      done the teleseminar but with my schedule it was absolutely impossible.

      But I do understand. Affiliate marketing is not what it was 5 years ago.
      You need to be more hands on and more specialized. But imagine trying
      to do teleseminars with 100 affiliates. I'd lose my mind.

      I appreciate your interest and your attempts. Like I said, I'm not blaming
      anybody and as I also said, I just don't have what it takes to attract
      affiliates. So it's a good thing I can sell my own stuff or I'd be on a street
      corner with a tin cup, dark glasses and a monkey.
  • It sounds more like you cant depend on finding affiliates from a mailing list of people who dont want to be affiliates. Thats backward logic.

    Come on Steven, you know the basics. You're targeting the wrong people here.

    You need to find people who are interested in selling your stuff who have experience in selling stuff like yours. I think the moment you embrace affiliates your business is going to take on a whole new level.

    You just need to [successfully] get your feet wet.
    • [2] replies
    • Banned
      Or who most likely don't know how to be.

      This experiment was a failure before he even hit the send button.
    • You're telling what to do but you're not telling me how to do it. The only
      thing I know how to do, very well, is get JVs to create products and
      promote them with another person. There is NO way I can put in that
      much work to get somebody to promote my products already created. It's
      too time consuming a process. And if I want to get an army of 100
      affiliates, it's all I'd be doing every hour of the day.

      Unless you have a better way. But again, I don't know it, so I can't do
      what I don't know how to do.
      • [1] reply
  • I think the main truth is the world and the USA is going through very hard times, and people are upset at life. Hopefully that will change soon.
  • Affiliates are great as long as they believe in the product you have and what you have actually converts.

    My experience is if they do not believe in it they never really get behind it and you wont make sales.

    Dave Woodward
    Legenary Marketers Host
  • Steven, "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take." - Wayne Gretzky

  • Come on Steve...don't give up, this doesnt sound like you mate

    Listen to this. In a little over a month, I've managed to get about 100 affiliates! And trust me, I didn't spend hours every day seeking them, so just imagine how many you could get with your reputation and if you did it properly. HUNDREDS or perhaps thousands in a few months.

    Try the following resources and see how you go:

    - Sign up as a silver member on membership millionaire. You can post your affiliate program on there, and they will mail your offer to their email list too.

    - Search the CB and PDC marketplace for similar products and then contact the product owner

    - Ask your network of friends/marketers

    Everything adds up and you will get a few every day even if you don't do any recruiting that day.

    I just know someone who as smart as you, can do well at affiliate marketing too!
    • [1] reply

    • Ernie, I only know how to work with people one on one in getting JVs,
      real JVs where each one contributes to the product and then they launch
      it. That's all I know. And that process is very time consuming.

      Obviously, my mind can't wrap itself around recruiting affiliates. With all
      that I know about writing and marketing, this one area just baffles me. I
      admit it. Hey, we can't all be great at everything. This area is one that I
      suck at. I don't even really know how to begin. I know how to sell my
      stuff. I just don't know how to sell others on selling it.

      If there's a coaching program that teaches this stuff (as long as it's not
      too time consuming to actually put the practice into practice) I'll sign up
      in a heartbeat. But for now, this is something that just eludes me.
  • Waggerz.. did you miss what was mentioned above by Marian?..

    Here's the deal Steve..

    For ME to promote YOUR product.. I have to slap on the crazy gear and get down 'n' dirty right?...

    For YOU to promote YOUR product.. it's different.. the social proof is in your hands...

    Give me one of your products, with a new sales page.. and get someone like Bev to re-do the copy/look and feel inside the product.... then we'll see if I can change your opinion of affiliate's...

    and let me show you why you are going about it all wrong in terms of affiliate's...

    I could pimp Dean's products all day long as an affiliate because they stack up from links right through to the sale..

    But with you it is different... your products work for YOU because YOU are the social proof behind them.. for me to push your product..I have to make excuses for the lazy look of your outfit...

    That might be a little harsh Steve, but tough love is the best form dude..

    This is said with the highest level of respect I have for anyone on this forum.. you rock dude..

    I'm not saying ALL the affiliate's thought this.. but any good affiliate's you had in your ranks will have stepped away from it because of the extra efforts that is included with your game..

    Peace

    Jay
    • [1] reply

    • Jay, that may have been the most sensible thing that anybody has said
      yet. Yes, I can walk the walk and prove that my stuff kicks ass. So yes,
      it's very easy for me to sell it, bare bones and all.

      So I guess it's decision time for me. Do I spend thousands of dollars to
      upgrade the appearance of all my products in the "hope" that maybe I'll
      get some super affiliates (never any guarantees) or do I just keep cranking
      out my tons of sales on the cheap and make a nice living?

      If you think this is an easy decision to make, it's not. You have to
      understand something. My monthly promotional expenses are next to
      nothing. So almost everything I make is pure profit. It's a joke. If I go
      "pro" and get the top designers and copywriters and on and on, what am
      I going to have left EVEN if I run a successful campaign? And if I don't,
      then what?

      I'll be the first to admit, I don't take many chances with my business. It's
      what I'm comfortable with.

      Having said all that, not getting a team of affiliates isn't going to send me
      to bed tonight crying in my pillow. I just wanted to explain why I don't
      put much effort into it. Everything I do usually results in zero results.
      You've given me a very good reason why that might be. I accept it.

      As to whether or not I someday decide to do something about it, I guess
      only time will tell.

      Right now, I'm not ready to sink that much into my business on something
      that isn't a sure thing.

      Makes me cheap? Yes.

      Makes me stupid? Maybe.

      But it also lets me sleep at night.
      • [1] reply
  • Steve -

    Managing a sales team does take effort, have done it both online and offline, and over the years, it seems like the 80/20 rule is in effect 'double time' here - 20% of your reps will take up 80% of your time.....and 20% of your reps will be responsible for 80% of your income.....unfortunately, the 20% that want most of your time are RARELY in the 80% that are producing your income....

    <sigh> The fun part is always figuring out which 20% the one that is taking up your time today is going to belong to!!

    But then you have a new affiliate call and ask you to be on a radio show that he has managed to book and all of a sudden - you know which 20% you have on the phone, and it makes your day!

    Don't be down, Steve, you didn't fail with affiliates - there's a lesson in here somewhere....you just need to find it.

    Isn't the purpose of an 'experiment' to find out what works and what doesn't?
    Experiments don't fail - they just have results.....then you keep experimenting until you get the result you want......

    Good luck!
    • [1] reply
    • Banned
      I agree with Steven. I think he should give up on the affiliates. He has made it known that he can't find them and it doesn't work for him ever since he came on this forum. It is already engraved into his mind that it will not work for him and I think it is a waste of time for him to continue unless he changed his mindset.


      BTW, happy birthday Steven.
  • On a similar note Waggerz..

    Here's what Yaro Starak has to say about getting the most out of your affiliate's:

    How To Motivate Affiliates To Promote For You - Entrepreneurs-Journey.com by Yaro Starak

    Peace

    Jay
  • Ok Steve, ( was one of the list that didn't respond. Let me tell you why.

    1. this is what your e-mail said

    When the links are clicked they go to the sales pages - there is no way from these to find the affiliate links.

    Straight away I'm confused, the first link goes to a basically blank page asking people to sign up to a newsletter - no sales page for a product, and no clickbank hoplink. This isn't a promising start!

    2. You mention prizes for the top affiliates - I'm a beginner, I was confident (OK wrongly as it turns out!) that there are plenty of more experienced people who already have campaigns going already selling your stuff, and I would have to start from scratch (this is a niche I am interested in - but I'm watching and learning at the moment I haven't taken the plunge to actually get going) and as you said:

    Quite discouraging really, I didn't think I had a chance - especially as I can't afford to do anything like PPC which seemed to be inplied from you saying:

    and when I read that one of your affiliates sold 100 or your products in his first month - well I thought 10 was going to be difficult knowing that I was competing with people who were selling 100's . . . .

    You are normally good with words Steve, I think you may want to look at the contest newsletter that you sent, because I got the message "if you are new - don't bother trying you are out of your league"

    This newsletter didn't say "I'm looking to find some good sffiliate prospects who want to get started and keep going" This newsletter said "I need a bit of a sales boost - so can i get my super affiliates to put a bit more effort in please."

    At least that is how I saw it!
    • [1] reply

    • Nicola, thanks for the feedback. See, sometimes the problem is in the
      communication with people. I can see your concerns and where you're
      coming from.

      Next time I'll try to write a more "uplifting" email. My problem is, and it
      always has been, I am too honest with people. I tell it like it is because
      I don't want people to think things will be a cakewalk, because they're
      not.

      I'm not a salesman, never was. I'm way too honest for this profession.

      But I'm learning.
  • Steve the (membership millionaire) method I posted above takes like 5minutes of work...has gotten me 30-40 affiliates in a day or two.

    and the good thing is, once you have the affiliates, you have them for life and can get their eyes on your following products.

    But yes, getting 1 affiliate at a time can be slow and if there is some better ways, I'd like to hear about it too.
  • Hi Steven, thank for being gracious about my criticism.

    it wasn't your honesty that was the problem - but what I read and what you intended didn't match.

    May I suggest that you send out a christmas/new years affiliate competition something along the lines of (You will have to tidy this up a lot!)

    Hi folks, I had a few comments from affiliates new to my products that they didn't stand a chance with my birthday competition - so I am doing a christmas competition just for them! I'm re-launching my products with new pretty websites and and want to get your help with the sales.

    Every affiliate that makes at least ten sales between xx and xx will recieve a christmas bonus of $20.

    and then for the top three prizes of: $300, $200 and $100.

    I'd love your feedback on what sort of promotional stuff you would like. Do you want text ads? banners? PLR articles that you can re-write? or a list of keywords for your own articles or PPC campaigns.

    I'm waiting for xx until this is started so that you can get back to me with what you need to help you - then I will open my new affiliate area with the goodies you have told me you want!

    Sign up now so that I can help you find a bit of gold for Christmas.



    I did say it would need tidying!
    • [1] reply

    • Nicola, actually, I like it. Naturally, this means a lot of work on my part
      and with everything else I'm doing right now, I don't know if I could
      get this ready for Christmas, but I'll sure as heck give it my best shot.

      Thanks...excellent idea. Maybe I should hire you as a consultant for my
      PR image.
  • Let me just add this...


    - Michael Jordan
    • [1] reply
    • Next to Wayne Gretzky's quote, this may be one of the most popular
      sports quotes of all time.

      Yes, very true.
  • Hi Steven,

    I am afraid you are looking at the world with blinders on. Try peaking around them a little and you may see strange new things around the corner.

    Seriously though, I think your problem is you just sent your email to your list of newbies.

    Try running a wso on this forum for affiliates or an ad on clickbank or other sites that affiliate marketers visit and you may actually get someone that is already good at selling instead of people looking for free info and in info overload cycle.

    Don't give up now just try something else.

    Terry
    • [1] reply
    • Steve, I don't think affiliates are interested in trampolines for prizes, but perhaps
      I am out of the loop.

      ;-)
  • Here is a way around most of the work Stevenn,

    Contact Warrior Kate Anderson. she does some amazing sites for sale on Sitepoint - she does a "clickbank package" - sales page, images, and affiliates page. You already have the wording for your sales page - you just need a good header and ebook cover to go with them. A nice affiliates page would also be good.

    Here are a few of Kates auctions so that you can see what I am talking about.

    ? www.BloggingJackpot.com ?
    ? www.WAHStrategy.com ?
    ? www.AuctionCashGuide.com ?

    I am sure that she (or whomever she hires!) could do a similar treatment for you at a reasonable cost.

    Then just add a few bits to the affiliate page - personally i would like to see a few PLR articles, and a list of keywords. I'm sure you already have these!

    Then do your new competition newsletter, and you are all set!

    BTW, an important point for me is that if i make a certain level of sales - then i will get a bonus - I don't expect to be in the top three, but if everyone who puts in an effort is a winner, then more people will put in an effort. Well - I would!
  • Steven,

    You don't need a new house - you just need to update the wallpaper in the existing one!

    If you really want to launch a new product with all the bells and whistles possible - and spend a small fortune! Then you can go for it.

    But your existing products are great - you just need to do a little redecorating and maybe add a new kitchen.
  • Why not just pick one at a time and work with it until it's golden? Spend 2k per site.

    My Secret Articles:

    Get Karl to do a new site- 500 (fresh product images for sure)
    Get someone to do a rewrite or go over the copy- 500-1500

    Promote like hell. Move on the next.

  • Thanks Paul. My head is spinning from all that, but I get it.
  • Steven,

    First I think it's brilliant that you opened up and took the courage to discuss something that didn't work. Many people are afraid to do this - and I think your approach is one that will lead to success.

    I think the best way to approach ventures and ideas is to not become personally attached to them. You try something, and if it doesn't work, oh well, you see what you can learn from it and try something else.

    I think the thing has pretty much been stated already - you can't turn a subscriber into a successful affiliate overnight.

    The good news is, you're only one step away from success by the sound of things.

    The chain snapped at the weak link but most of the links were good. The product obviously converts if one person was able to sell over 100 per month.

    Is it possible to reach this person and find out what techniques they were using to achieve sales?

    Also can you get some stats from them? I'd say you're in a good position. You have a system that has proven success, now all you gotta do is find the right team... other successful affiliates who would want to take it on.
  • But Steven, isn't the first WSO on your sig-line all about affiliate marketing?
    • [1] reply
    • Yes, it's about affiliate marketing...selling other people's products AS an
      affiliate. It's NOT about how to GET affiliates.

      They are two completely different animals.
      • [1] reply
  • customers are not actually good affiliate material in most cases.

    warriorprocessing.com Merchant account with free authorize.net
  • wow. quite the commentary here. I was thinking of starting an affiliate program for my products but now I have more concerns than I did yesterday. Yesterday I thought I just needed to make up the promo tools somehow. Now, I realize that finding affiliates might be more of an issue. Thanks for all the good tips and advice here though.
    Steven, I am sorry to hear about the bad luck. At least some of the 8 came on here to explain to you why they didn't. You can have some understanding now instead of speculating and allowing frustration to fuel your imagination.
    I am sure the next time you want to venture into this, you will have better luck with more affiliates who will produce.
  • Generating massive results from affiliate marketing will only work if the product itself converts from COLD traffic.

    PPC. Or advertising.

    Your OWN results don't really mean much. Your clients are buying from you, not just as a result of your offer/copy.

    Same goes for list-mailouts when people contact their email lists.

    Their trust is what sells it.

    But this will always be short-lived.

    To see a long-lasting stream of affiliate driven sales, you need strong conversions from what will be their primary traffic source: COLD TRAFFIC

    It's very possible to make a VERY good living simply selling to your own list.

    But getting the multiplied, compounding effect of traffic from affiliates will only happen if:

    a) Your product converts "cold"

    AND

    b) You target active affiliates who already have traffic

    That's why it's not working for you.

    There is no other reasonable explanation.

    -Chris
    • [ 4 ] Thanks
    • [2] replies
    • Hi Steven,

      Just about everything has already been said in this thread.

      You already got my PM and who's link did I send you?

      That's right... Chris from the above post knows what he is talking about.
      http://www.jv-web.com

      Why?

      There are so many mistakes marketers make when doing JV' it's insane. Including myself. I'm still learning. Primarily trying to recruit jv partners without building some sort of relationship first.

      It's vital! This is different than the relationship most of us have with our lists.

      I know you mentioned me in your original post and I Thank You too.

      Fantastic job Steven on your promo to your list. You have plenty of trusting raving fans in your list from the response and praises I received in my inbox in the last 48 hours. However, I'm getting off track here.

      Before I launched my product there were only a small handful of partners that I sent private closed door invites simply because they are the handful of people I've worked with before such as helped them do a promo, and or have a long relationship with them in some form or another. I did a test and sent just a couple invites to people I've never worked with that I've been noticing here on the Warrior Forum making leaps and bounds with their marketing efforts and not a single response which was expected.

      Also, I did not even consider sending jv invites to my entire list because their is no control of who would sign up when you send something like that out to 1,000's of subscribers. Most would probably be confused and wondering what a JV is, let alone trying to get involved in a jv promo.

      Like Chris already said it's vital that your product is tested to convert with a cold market first. I don't think you need to spend $1,000's updating your sales page and graphics. You can get a fantastic mini-site graphics package for about $297. You could probably have the sales copy done for under $1,500 but I'd have to take a look at it to see if it would have to be totally re-written from scratch.

      Oh! You can still be honest when writing powerful sales copy. I'll never understand why some marketers think they are too honest to write good sales copy. Just tell your personal story and give them the facts and benefits of what's in it for them and why.

      Cheers,
      Dean
      • [1] reply

    • Thanks Chris...makes absolutely 100% sense.

      So I essentially need to come up with a product and copy that will
      sell even if my name was Mickey Mouse.

      Got it!

      On it!
  • You had a similar thread in regards to clickbank a few months ago Steven, if you are a great affiliate for Dean, then take a closer look at his product, sales letter, his mini site design and add those elements to your own business.

    Affiliates are serious business minded people, they are doing their hard work to drive traffic, some even take the extra step of paying for the traffic that is driven to yout site (ppc).

    If you expect for affiliates to do well for you, then make sure to scratch their back as well, give them a landing page that closes the sale, give them a product that does not compete with their own, give them a commission base that can actually earn them a good amount of money while they promote you.

    Give them proven tools that they can use to generate sales, look at other successful marketers and see what tools/incentives they offer and try to emulate it and you too can have success.

    Affiliates are the reason why you see such high gravity and good amounts of sales on clickbank or other affiliate networks, you just have to work on a few things and you too an have twice the income and less work and affiliates can help you do that.
    • [1] reply

    • Mel, more great advice. Man, you guys are really teaching me stuff
      today. I've been so stuck selling my products mode that I never really
      took the time to figure out what attracts affiliates. I know what attracts
      me, but I'm obviously an odd ball.

      Thank you all. This has been a tremendous amount of help.
  • How are you converting that many sales with those sites without affiliates?

    If you truly are making 6 figures you really should be reinvesting that money back into your business by sprucing up your salespages.
    • [1] reply
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