"I Just Wanna Give A Shout To All The Article Writers Out There..." :)

14 years ago

Hello Web Junkie,

I suspect I am going to irritate lots of people with this post, but here goes nothing.

Don't wast your time on RAC or any of the freelancing websites. The people that are looking for quality as apposed to cheap SEO oriented plop, are not there.

If you want to earn money writing quality articles, then there is little point in writing for people who wont even read what you have written, and just plan to stick your work in their article 'shred & spam' machines. They will only pay for garbage, and if you are charging them a low price as you claim, why spend a day on it. Personally I wont lower myself to do those gigs anymore, as I find it completely soul destroying. Stick to writing quality articles and you will find you feel far better about what you are doing.

Write to successful online businesses and ask them if they would be interested in hiring a real article writer. Maybe even one that can write articles for people to read, as this seems to be a niche market LOL! You will find there are many businesses looking for skilled writers, and they are equally frustrated that all they can find are keyword merchants.

On the other hand, there is a real market for SEO plop, and if you want to write it, go for it. Just make sure you aren't spending an hour writing something that nobody will read, and especially if you are only charging $5 or something silly for them.

I don't bother doing the whole email thing anymore, as I am nearly booked up each month with repeat orders. I just bump my advert here when needed, to get a few more jobs to fill in the gaps. There is a demand for both types of writer on the Warrior Forum, and provided you know which type of writer you are, you should have no problems.

I would definitely suggest posting an advert in the Warriors for Hire section, as I was inundated when I use to do articles there.

Just make sure you calculate how much you need to make per day, then divide that by the number of articles you can write. Straight away you have a fair price for your work. Next you run your add, send your emails and see how it goes. Provided the number of articles you can write well, justify your necessary per-article price, you can't fail.

Regards,
Colin Palfrey

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Alexa Smith Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Colin Palfrey

I suspect I am going to irritate lots of people with this post

I hope not ... but anyway, thanks for producing it (saved me the effort).

It's about "the markets in which you choose to compete", in my opinion, Web Junkie.

Writers' incomes are not determined solely by their writing skills, but in great part by their marketing skills, too.

Many people with genuinely valuable writing skills start off with very low-paid projects, thinking that this will help them to move on to higher-paid projects. It usually doesn't, at all. It's really important, I think, to avoid at the outset the mistake of imagining that it's sensible to "start off by writing for low prices" with a view to raising your prices after clients have seen what you can produce. When writing for online markets, it simply doesn't work that way: when you write for low prices you attract clients whose primary motivation is to pay low prices, and you lose almost all of them when you increase prices later.

You may well find some/all of these resources helpful:-

Jennifer Mattern's blog

Carol Tice's blog

Freelance writing jobs (minmum payment requirement of $50 per article to be listed there)

Free report on how to attract new freelance writing clients during a recession

The Renegade Writer Blog

The "Irreverent Freelancer" blog
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Web Junkie

14 years ago

Thanks Colin! That was a very insightful and honest response. I'lll get started with the ideas that you have provided, and will report back to the forum with my results.

Thanks again,

Rich

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Alexander Sebastian 14 years ago

Have you thought about turning to copy writing, you can easily get paid a lot more for a days work!
look it up and check out the prices people are paying!
it mat take you a while to learn but it is well worth it!
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CDarklock

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Web Junkie

My current method is obviously not working, and I don't want to keep repeating this horrible rentacoder strategy of mine, so I would appreciate any new ideas or feedback from the pros!

Set a minimum price, below which you WILL NOT write an article.

Stop writing articles for less than that. Ever. No matter if you're starving on the street.

And if nobody in a particular community will pay what you ask, stop looking for clients there. Look for clients somewhere else.

You can still hang out with that community. Just don't write for them.

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AdmiralGloom 14 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Set a minimum price, below which you WILL NOT write an article.

Stop writing articles for less than that. Ever. No matter if you're starving on the street.

I agree totally, just makes you seem like you will do anything for a flip.
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bhuff85

14 years ago

Are you looking to just earn money from writing articles for others or are you looking to make money WITH your articles? Sounds like you'd be better off at a place like Associated Content if your earnings are that though, but you definitely won't be able to make a solid income there, either.

There are a number of things you could do, such as:

- Placing an ad here for your services as an article writer in the "Warrior For Hire" section.

- Find red hot niche markets and create PLR article packs to sell in limited supply and build a list with every client you take in. That way, you can update them when a new article pack goes live, which could translate into more buyers faster.

- Pick out a few desperate buyer niches and build websites with your own content, selling products as an affiliate.

- Find a few desperate buyer niche markets and create your OWN product that you can sell. Look at various digital merchants if you want to expand your reach and get affiliates to bring in more sales.

Obviously, some of these will require a lot of work, but if done right, could yield much more cash than what you're seeing now. Hope that sparks up a few ideas for ya.

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David Jackson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Web Junkie

I had this great strategy in my head to make $100 a day writing high quality articles, but it seems like I'm spinning in circles. Not because I can't acquire writing gigs, but because I keep getting the WRONG GIGS! My current strategy would take me about 100 articles a day for me to earn that much.

Instead of writing articles for others, switch gears and write articles exclusively for yourself. Then create an info-product, and promote it in the resource box of your articles. Or if you choose not to create your own product, promote an affiliate product. Something else you can do is give away a free report in your resource box, capture e-mail addresses, build a list, and mail to those addresses regularly.

The point is, you can make alot of money by writing articles and promoting products in your resource box. Get a bunch of articles out in the marketplace, and keep promoting the daylights out of them. If you do this consistently, the money will follow.

David Jackson

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Stephen Bray

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

Writers' incomes are not determined solely by their writing skills, but in great part by their marketing skills, too.

Many people with genuinely valuable writing skills start off with very low-paid projects, thinking that this will help them to move on to higher-paid projects. It usually doesn't, at all.

Exactly write, (sorry couldn't resist the pun )

It's always the marketing. The best
in many fields aren't necessarily the
most in demand.

A hot market isn't a profitable one unless
the buyers appreciate what you provide
and pay you accordingly.

Being paid nothing can eventually rot
your insides making you bitter and
twisted.

Originally Posted by David Jackson

Instead of writing articles for others, switch gears and write articles exclusively for yourself. Then create an info-product, and promote it in the resource box of your articles. Or if you choose not to create your own product, promote an affiliate product. Something else you can do is give away a free report in your resource box, capture e-mail addresses, build a list, and mail to those addresses regularly.

The point is, you can make a lot of money by writing articles and promoting products in your resource box. Get a bunch of articles out in the marketplace, and keep promoting the daylights out of them. If you do this consistently, the money will follow.

David Jackson

This is a much better plan than writing
articles for peanuts.

If you stuck with this for just 40% of
your time in a year you would have a
business.

In the remaining 60% I would find some
potentially profitable focus, such as
writing auto-responder series. Put up a
good sales letter and send it some
targeted traffic.

Then after a year you might well have
two.

Stephen

P.S. You may want to revise your
'About me' section on My Space.

Writing that you're "lazy and don't
care" isn't the best invitation to
people who might be interested in
hiring you.

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sylviad

14 years ago

Hi,

Your comment is common. Many people on those freelance sites do expect quality for low pay. As a seasoned professional, the best I've managed was $15 per 500-word article from a client on Elance. She told me that she never pays more than that. Elance seems to have a few more higher paying offers than some others.

I've since decided that I can get more mileage from my work by creating my own products to sell. That way, I can choose the topics in which I have the most knowledge, which makes writing much easier and faster.

If you truly want to write articles for others, you could try this approach.

1) Make a list of the topics that interest you and that you can write on very easily.

2) Set a per-article rate. It's best if you do some market research first to see what your competition is charging and go from there. You'd be surprised how high some rates go. If you don't have much of a portfolio yet, you would be wise to find a mid-range price to start. As you build your client list, raise it accordingly.

3) Look for sites in your categories that contain a lot of quality content. Approach the site owners with an offer to write for them. Set up a page somewhere with your portfolio and samples. Include a sample in your offer. Best if the sample is on the topic related to their site. This will give them an idea how you can write on their theme.

This can be quite effective because many site owners would love to find a good writer who can produce quality articles for them. In fact, some clients might also want you to write short reports, which can bring you more money per report than you'd get for a few articles.

But do your homework first. Find out what people are paying for articles, reports and books and set your price so that you look professional. Offering low prices can make you appear unprofessional. Believe it or not, people do ask, how good are you if you're willing to work for so little?

Hope this helps.

Sylvia

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Dwight Anthony

14 years ago

yes, i've seen articles written as low as $2 an article on Elance and RAC, possibly not worth it. Why not blog for willing buyers or checkout paid reviews.

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TomBuck

14 years ago

Instead of articles write say a hub or a squidoo lens then promote that hub or lens and you will see better results.

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Sue Rogers

14 years ago

But after reading what all of you have said...

don't you find it interesting that when an ad is posted here for articles to be written at really low prices that everyone seems to jump on the offer and then turns around and give glowing reviews.

Any ideas on why? I find it amusing as we all want to charge a price that we are worth but yet we have all hired someone with an amazing low price rather it be for a graphic design, written article, etc. So how can we justify wanting a fair price but yet we ourselves don't want to pay what a person is worth.

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skibbz

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Sue Rogers

I find it amusing as we all want to charge a price that we are worth but yet we have all hired someone with an amazing low price rather it be for a graphic design, written article, etc. So how can we justify wanting a fair price but yet we ourselves don't want to pay what a person is worth.

Haha there is something to think about :p

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King Shiloh Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by skibbz

Haha there is something to think about :p

There's absolutely nothing to think about. Nobody forced anybody to accept the offer. After all, you named your price and the deal was struck.

If you are not comfortable with the offer, why pick the job?

Your worth is the value you placed on yourself. I'm not thinking about anything.
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johnedwards

14 years ago

I have had 2 freinds tried to make a living from article writing both have failed. If you are really good at marketing yourself you may stand a chance

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Superior Content Creation

14 years ago

I usually charge about $20 per article. I won't work for less than $15 per 500 word article, and that's before upsells. There have been two clients on Elance who actually said they were "excited" before I even started because they had never paid that much for an article before. It's all marketing--and of course, over-delivering.

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Kay King

14 years ago

I find it amusing as we all want to charge a price that we are worth but yet we have all hired someone with an amazing low price rather it be for a graphic design, written article, etc. So how can we justify wanting a fair price but yet we ourselves don't want to pay what a person is worth.

All of us haven't done that.

If you can write well and want to be paid your "worth" you need to position yourself. You need samples that show your various writing styles to show potential clients what you can do.

You did well to position yourself with a good rating at a freelance site. Get of that site where you've labeled yourself as cheap and use that good rating as leverage to get better jobs on other sites.

If you use freelance sites, learn to look to the right jobs to bid on. If you see a job posted by someone who routinely pays low - you don't want that job.

Think of things other than articles - ebooks. Position yourself as knowledgeable in certain niches you have interest in. You can't earn high prices for articles (unless you are well known as a writer here) in the IM niche. There's nothing odd about that as IMers need content - not Shakespeare.

Know what you are worth per hour and how long it takes you to complete writing jobs and price accordingly. Stop being a "service provider" and start thinking like a professional writer.

Colin had some great advice but I'd add it's all about positioning yourself and bidding on work you want. If you look at writing as earning a few bucks you'll defeat yourself.

This past week I spent only two days writing - and earned several hundred dollars. Don't tell me it can't be done or tell me writers are all cheap. There are many businesses and professionals who pay very good money for content writing - you just have to find them.

kay

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Kay King 14 years ago

I started with elance using the coaching program from Barry Walls (a member here). At the time (over a year ago) I was in a bad place financially due to some major problems happening one right after the other.
Paying for the coaching was a major hurdle but I needed advice on the business end of writing for hire.

I didn't place a bid and wait - I placed bids for hours daily giving the rates I was willing to work for. I was honest in saying my bids were lower than usual but I was just starting on the site and needed feedback. My "low" was the high for some others bidding but I got a lot of the jobs mainly because I had developed a good set of samples.

It worked and I haven't placed a bid on a freelance site for over six months. I've had long term contracts with manufacturers for their sites and blogs, and have a list of clients who return to me when they need work. I get invitations through elance now but seldom bid on them as most of my work is outside freelance sites.

I offered submission to my platinum eza account, UAW rewrites and submission, did ebooks, reports, articles, press releases - and if I didn't know how to do what they wanted...I learned and did it.

It wasn't easy and that bothers me when I see someone who has done a little and then is upset about the pay. I worked my butt off but it paid off.

No - I don't advertise here. I've done work for a few members who pm'd me but that's about it for here. I do a lot of writing in the economy niche - foreclosure, bankruptcy, credit, personal finance, on every niche in gardening (and several ebooks), pets (work for two vets) and on specific products for manufacturers.

I did all the product descriptions and content for a major costume site - took weeks to do but was a lot of fun. I've also received free products from several manufacturers - a big bonus. I had a client who paid for me to test and review every energy drink on the market and that was fun.

The problem I see is too many people who want to write only look at it from the IM perspective and there is so much more than that. IM isn't just little niche sites and make money sites and they forget that.

But also, many people who want to write are only writing to get money. I've been writing all my life for myself and have written offline in the past for others. Just never thought of making money with it till I talked to Barry. I tell people up front I'm not the cheapest writer and it's surprising how many buyers are not looking for cheap. I'm not the greatest writer, either, so I don't overcharge but focus on finding buyers who like what I do.

That's more than I intended to say about me. It was hard in the beginning to turn down lower offers for work when I needed money so badly but it was necessary if I wanted to build in the right way. When and if I get tired of what I'm doing now, I'll go back for more coaching and move the business to the next level. For now, I'm happy with how it's going.

kay

EDIT: I have to add the hardest thing for me to learn was scheduling the work. In the beginning I put in quite a few all-nighters to meet deadlines - but I met them and the client never knew I was ready to drop from exhaustion. Now I know my own limits plus clients know me and if I need extra time for a project, they are fine with that.
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Superior Content Creation

14 years ago

I got my start with Barry's program too, and it was great. Kay has made a lot of great points here. If you want an idea of what a well-positioned writer can get paid, just Google some main keyword strings a person offering this kind of service would target, and you'll struggle to find anyone on the first page of Google results that charges anything less than $30 for a web article--and many of them charge 3 times that.

It's not as lucrative as copywriting, but there's definite money in this. In fact, just writing the above reminds me that at $20 I'm still charging too little. LOL Time to rethink my marketing.

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EvolBaby

14 years ago

I can say that writing for clients' blogs and articles can be very rewarding. I got lucky as I had a database of clients that when I decided to give it a try I went into four figures in just a month or two. I kept my prices low but found clients that had easy to do projects and shared SEO and other strategies with me.

I should offer my services here on Warrior but that will come after I've studied the board more.

It helps that I've been writing professionally and doing cartoons, animation for a long time as well. It's worth it as it's good money for a nest egg or to reinvest in other enterprises.

By visiting Warrior I'm seeing far more opportunities where my writing skills can be put to use. The networking power on this site is second to none from what I'm seeing so far. Just think of it this way, write well or purchase good writing services and making money is a given.

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Net Assasin

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Web Junkie

I'm sending this one out to the forum because I'm completely confused on this issue. Are any article writers actually making any money? If so...what in the world am I doing wrong?

I had this great strategy in my head to make $100 a day writing high quality articles, but it seems like I'm spinning in circles. Not because I can't acquire writing gigs, but because I keep getting the WRONG GIGS! My current strategy would take me about 100 articles a day for me to earn that much.

I started out bidding on rentacoder for even the cheapest assignments with the intention of gaining great feedback & then acquiring higher paid writing assignments. Well, it turns out - those "higher paid writing assignments" are far and few between. My impression is that the people on rentacoder are looking for super high quality articles but want to pay the absolute minimum. Which I've done myself when hiring for graphics gigs. I've only had 2 people pay me a decent amount (they bonused me), and all of my past clients have asked me to write for them again. So, now I have great reviews and high ranking on Rentacoder but only seem to find article writing jobs that pay $20-$30 for a days work.

I'm not trying to make this message into a rant or a cry session. I'm asking for an honest opinion from other article writers. My current method is obviously not working, and I don't want to keep repeating this horrible rentacoder strategy of mine, so I would appreciate any new ideas or feedback from the pros!

Have any of you had any success picking a few niches, writing a few articles and selling it as an article pack?

Lol, i used to be just the same, writing articles until my fingers nearly bled, then I realized that if you can get your article mass re-published it gets thousands of links from eza itself and will punch your article straight to the top of the serps. I even do it for others now.

But this really is the golden key to article marketing

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tpw

14 years ago

Only one person ever decides how much you will be paid for writing anything, and that person is YOU!!

If you are charging people chump change for your talent, they will never trust you with the good stuff...

Also, it is easier to sell your quality, if you set up a web page somewhere, where you can demonstrate to people the quality of articles you write... You don't need testimonials for that...

People will see your work and make their own decisions about the quality of your work...

Once they know what you are capable of doing, people outside the freelance sites will be willing to pay you the prices you ask for your writing...

I started writing at the $40 an article level...

I have at times in my career charged as much $250-$500 an article and got it...

My credibility as a writer stands on its own...

Of course, there is always a trade-off...

At $500 an article, I only wrote a couple articles per month... At $100 an article, I wrote about 30-40 month... At $40 an article, I could sell hundreds of articles per month...

Figure out what a good price is for you work, and sell yourself at that level... Do not compromise with people...

If they like what you have written, and they believe in the quality you offer, they will pay your rates... Many will try to dicker with you on price, but once they understand that your quoted prices are your bottom prices, they will often belly up to the bar to pay what you ask to be paid...

The best person to sell your writing at a living wage is YOU... And the best way to sell your writing at a living wage is to DEMONSTRATE through examples the quality of your work...

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AFI 14 years ago

It really sucks being a freelance article writer when there's sites out there like ContentAuthority that pays less than ONE CENT per word.

I signed up to be a writer with them a long time ago and they wanted to pay me something like $1.50 per article and I said "close my account please".

They'll literally write your Master's Thesis for .05/word.
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Superior Content Creation

14 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

Only one person ever decides how much you will be paid for writing anything, and that person is YOU!!

If you are charging people chump change for your talent, they will never trust you with the good stuff...

Also, it is easier to sell your quality, if you set up a web page somewhere, where you can demonstrate to people the quality of articles you write... You don't need testimonials for that...

People will see your work and make their own decisions about the quality of your work...

Once they know what you are capable of doing, people outside the freelance sites will be willing to pay you the prices you ask for your writing...

I started writing at the $40 an article level...

I have at times in my career charged as much $250-$500 an article and got it...

My credibility as a writer stands on its own...

Of course, there is always a trade-off...

At $500 an article, I only wrote a couple articles per month... At $100 an article, I wrote about 30-40 month... At $40 an article, I could sell hundreds of articles per month...

Figure out what a good price is for you work, and sell yourself at that level... Do not compromise with people...

If they like what you have written, and they believe in the quality you offer, they will pay your rates... Many will try to dicker with you on price, but once they understand that your quoted prices are your bottom prices, they will often belly up to the bar to pay what you ask to be paid...

The best person to sell your writing at a living wage is YOU... And the best way to sell your writing at a living wage is to DEMONSTRATE through examples the quality of your work...

Care to share any of your marketing tactics since you weren't on the freelance sites? Were you pulling in most of your clients at those prices through your blog and social networking?

Thanks in advance for anything you care to share.

Cheers,
James

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good2go4

14 years ago

Hi there,

You have had some good advice on this thread - it's great when people pull together to help someone

I did make a lot of money through Elance writing articles and ebooks - the work is there but you have to be able to show that you are worth the money that you are charging. I had originally thought that I needed to compete on price and initially started writing articles for peanuts - it was a hard slog and I almost gave up.

But we needed the money so I started looking at some of the people who were successful on Elance and tried to work out what they did that was different - one of the key things I noticed was that they never compromised on price. They simply showed through their feedback rating and their samples that they were worth the price they were charging.

There will always be those customers on sites like Elance (Freelancer is worse!!) that want to pay next to nothing for some solid hard work. The key is to pick out clients that do pay well. You can check this by running your mouse over the buyers name and seeing how much he has actually paid out for projects. It is not an exact science but it can work. Another tactic that worked well for me was to only bid on projects that had under 10 other bids on it. It meant I was writing on some pretty obscure topics, but it worked for me

A couple of heart attacks put paid to my Elance efforts but I did make some solid money from there in the five years I worked through them. But that said, I have found it a lot easier to write for clients on this forum - they recognize and are prepared to pay for quality content and that makes them the best type of clients you could target

So at the risk of encouraging even more competition in my own field, lol, get yourself some samples, put up a good solid WFH and start getting paid what you are worth.

Best of luck
Lisa

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dwatkins

14 years ago

I write for Demand Media Studios to fill in whenever I don't have private clients going. They pay $15 for a 300-400 word article and I get to choose what I write on there. There are over 200,000 titles to choose from, so I always find something to write when I want to. I am also approved to write for some of their premium sites that pay much more. So, my first suggestion is to apply to them. Look over the MOST RECENT articles on ehow.com, livestrong.com, yellowpages.com, gardenguides.com or the small business section of chron.com and submit an article that is similar in style to what they have. (These are Demand sites and clients.) You can look up my articles if you like. (Diane Watkins)

If you don't already have one, build a professional site that showcases your work. Have a page of links to samples if you are published on the web, or else publish your samples on the site.

Once you are accepted at Demand studio, there is never again a reason to write for less than $15/article for basic articles, even more for research intensive articles. You now start looking for higher paying clients, using Demand as a way to make your minimum living expenses and fitting in around higher paying clients. I have found several good repeat clients on Craigslist, but be careful what you apply for there. Make sure they are willing to pay you and keep your scam alert on high. Whenever you apply for a position, send a link to your samples on your resume site along with a letter written specifically for that application. I keep all my letters and customize them to fit the client, but I never just send a catchall form letter. I've picked up several good clients who come back to me regularly along with one blogging client (I ghostblog for them 3 times a week).

I would also follow the advice of everyone else here to build a client base. It is possible to make a good full-time income writing. I do fairly well just writing articles.

Good luck.

Thanks

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Cardsearch

14 years ago

I am so glad that you people are showing that freelance writers shouldn't write for peanuts. It is just like any other profession, and should be paid accordingly, especially for quality writing.

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Victoralexon

14 years ago

I've had the most success with writing for people on this forum.

If you do a good job at www.fiverr.com, many of them comes back for more.

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Web Junkie

14 years ago

I've read through all of your posts and I want to say a HUGE THANK YOU to everyone that responded. This forum is so great for getting honest information and inspiration.

Thanks for the information!

Rich

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1 reply

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1. How I Generated Over $75,000 and 246 New Patients For One Of My Offline Clients
2. Here's Exactly How I Got One Of My Offline Clients On TV Using Only $17
3. Using Money Saver To Get Offline Clients

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Kay King 14 years ago

This was a good thread - until it turned into a WSO promotion.
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- Web Junkie 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Kay King
  
  This was a good thread - until it turned into a WSO promotion.
  
  I'm sorry that my previous message appeared to be an ad for a WSO. It certainly wasn't my intention. I was merely trying to show that your advice did not fall upon deaf ears, and I actually intend to take action.
  
  My apologies go out to you for my inability to convey my message properly. I'll also try to delete the above message.
  
  Thanks,
  
  Rich
  
  Thanks
  
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  1. How I Generated Over $75,000 and 246 New Patients For One Of My Offline Clients
  2. Here's Exactly How I Got One Of My Offline Clients On TV Using Only $17
  3. Using Money Saver To Get Offline Clients
  
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Mangozoom

14 years ago

I would suggest you hire a writer on here or learn to write great articles yourself

Or even better do both!

With article marketing less can be more i.e. do better articles and get more traffic

John

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"I Just Wanna Give A Shout To All The Article Writers Out There..." :)

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