by AFI
113 replies
I've been sitting on a goldmine since 2001 and didn't even think of it. You see I own the domain "petercriss.com" and for those of you who may be 70s Metal Heads know that Peter Criss is the original drummer of the rock band KISS.

Well KISS just happens to be a merchandising mega machine. They've got KISS toys, KISS glasses, KISS coffins (yes seriously), KISS underwear, KISS EVERYTHING....anyway I just found their merchandise at Amazon.com. It looks like I'll be building a new site.

And to think, I've had it PARKED all of these years. Yes I made money off the parking because of the typeins but I could have had $$$ from their merch!!

I'm an idiot and everyone is allowed to tell me so. :p

And I've even got domain age!! GAH!!
#idiot #man
  • Profile picture of the author Trivum
    Is that legal?
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  • Profile picture of the author dean_holland
    Yep... you are an idiot hahaha

    Just kidding, at least you kept it and now have a plan for it
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    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
      Be careful.

      His official site is petercriss.net and was created in 1998.

      If you try to exploit his name without express permission, you might find yourself in legal difficulty.


      Frank
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      I've just put Richard Branson's number on speed-dial. I call it my "Get-Rich-Quick" scheme.

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      • Profile picture of the author AFI
        Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

        Be careful.

        His official site is petercriss.net and was created in 1998.

        If you try to exploit his name without express permission, you might find yourself in legal difficulty.


        Frank
        I've been making money off of it for years with the domain parking. I don't see how this is any different.

        Then I have owned this domain since 1998 then because *I* was the reason he was forced to buy the .net and has never approached me.
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        • Profile picture of the author Michael Mayo
          Originally Posted by AFI View Post

          I've been sitting on a goldmine since 2001...
          Originally Posted by AFI View Post

          I have owned this domain since 1998...
          So you've owned it since 1998 and have been setting on it since 2001?
          It's about time the for the golden egg to hatch wouldn't say? :p

          Have a Great Day!
          Michael
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          • Profile picture of the author AFI
            Originally Posted by Michael Mayo View Post

            So you've owned it since 1998 and have been setting on it since 2001?
            It's about time the for the golden egg to hatch wouldn't say? :p

            Have a Great Day!
            Michael
            Like I said numerous times in the post, I was using the domain to try and get an autograph from Peter Criss because at the time I was a really big KISS fan. I didn't care about monetizing it. But now that I'm older and wiser, I'm just figuring out what I've got here.
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            • Profile picture of the author Michael Mayo
              Originally Posted by AFI View Post

              Like I said numerous times in the post, I was using the domain to try and get an autograph from Peter Criss because at the time I was a really big KISS fan. I didn't care about monetizing it. But now that I'm older and wiser, I'm just figuring out what I've got here.
              LOL...Jennifer, Don't get your panties in a wad, I was just playing. :p
              More or less I was kind of agreeing with you.

              Have a Great Day!
              Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
    Check with a lawyer who knows, but I believe you could also be sitting on a potential lawsuit. If Peter Criss has done anything to protect the rights to his name (and I'd bet anything he has), you might have a problem as soon as you try to commercialize the domain name. What I would do is find that out, then instead of doing something with it yourself, approach him or his company and offer it to them for a fat payday. This is assuming they don't already have a legal right to claim it and boot you off as a cyber-squatter.

    John
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  • Profile picture of the author Vincenzo Oliva
    Let's assume that Amazon would not permit bootleg merchandise peddling. So you own petercriss.com well that might piss Peter Criss off but I doubt many people are searching for "Peter Criss" anymore. It would be nice if you had a domain with keywords that people are actually searching for like kisscollectables.com.
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    • Profile picture of the author AFI
      Originally Posted by Vincenzo Oliva View Post

      Let's assume that Amazon would not permit bootleg merchandise peddling. So you own petercriss.com well that might piss Peter Criss off but I doubt many people are searching for "Peter Criss" anymore. It would be nice if you had a domain with keywords that people are actually searching for like kisscollectables.com.
      Oh believe me they are searching. I get about 100 TYPEINS/direct entries per day.

      Well technically that's not searching but it's even better.
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  • Profile picture of the author AdmiralGloom
    Ouch, sorry to hear the potential bad news, but at least there are people here willing to let you know such things! Good luck to you!
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  • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
    Originally Posted by AFI View Post

    Well KISS just happens to be a merchandising mega machine. They've got KISS toys, KISS glasses, KISS coffins (yes seriously), KISS underwear, KISS EVERYTHING....
    They've got lawyers. You forgot to mention that, so I fixed it for ya.

    ~Bill
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  • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
    Warrior Brian McLeod - if he gets wind of your domain name - will probably mortgage his house, sell his cars, auction off his wife, and promise his firstborn if you'll just let him glimpse it.

    He's a member of the KISS ARMY! Beth I hear you callin'....
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    • Profile picture of the author AFI
      Originally Posted by Zeus66 View Post

      Warrior Brian McLeod - if he gets wind of your domain name - will probably mortgage his house, sell his cars, auction off his wife, and promise his firstborn if you'll just let him glimpse it.

      He's a member of the KISS ARMY! Beth I hear you callin'....
      Tell him I'll sell it to him.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin_Hutto
    You should actually contact Gene Simmons... He has trademarks for all kinds of stuff and is actually the one who owns the merchandising rights to Kiss. He would be the person with the interest and means to pay you what its worth. Like someone said, you could probably also get a pretty penny selling it to the right KISS fan...
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    • Profile picture of the author AFI
      In FACT.....I'm just remembering something. I'm a huge KISS fan myself, well I used to be. I'm not really into them much anymore but I remember around 2003 to about 2006 I had the following words on the website:

      "Mr. Criss, you may contact me at the whois information on the domain registrar and I will let you have your domain FOR AN AUTOGRAPH and PICTURE". LOL (because I was a big fan back in the day)

      And he NEVER contacted me. You mean to tell me for 3 years he never did a typein on his domain? I think I'm in the clear.

      And Gene may own the rights to KISS Merchandise, but he's allowed Amazon.com to sell them.....and I am an affiliate of Amazon.com so I wouldn't be selling merchandise illegally.
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      • Profile picture of the author AFI
        What type of a lawyer would you even contact to ask about something like this?:confused:
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      • Profile picture of the author ELVISTHEPELVIS
        Originally Posted by AFI View Post

        And he NEVER contacted me. You mean to tell me for 3 years he never did a typein on his domain? I think I'm in the clear.
        Well, he did lead a life of excess, I doubt he even knows how to work a computer.

        Brian
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        • Profile picture of the author AFI
          Originally Posted by ELVISTHEPELVIS View Post

          Well, he did lead a life of excess, I don't he even knows how to work a computer.

          Brian
          I was in contact with Stan Penridge before he died. If anyone knows anything about KISS, he's the guy who co-wrote "Beth" with Peter. Stan said that Peter is practically illiterate and cannot read or write very well.

          So I'm not really that concerned.
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      • Profile picture of the author balilong
        at least you earned while you were parking. But it could have been more I mean a double revenue!

        hmmm probably they were observing your site and found out they can have an edge on you if they implement something.
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        • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
          What type of a lawyer would you even contact to ask about something like this?
          Jennifer,

          This isn't legal advice...Currently you have this as a parked page and are a passive participant in any revenues generated. If you change your status to actively persuing generating revenue through the use of the domain name you could most likely come up on someones radar. That could be PC himself, or more than likely the people who own the merchandising rights to his name.

          Now, being 'active' or passive' is not what makes the difference here. It's getting on someone's radar.

          So the big question here is "How big of a risk taker are you?"

          ~Bill
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  • Profile picture of the author Keyword Prodigy
    I really don't see any problems. If you made it into a fan site you could monetize it no problem. There are 1000's of fan sites online making good money.

    Only problem is Amazon with it's 24 hour cookie. Better to find an affiliate program with at least a 2 week cookie so you don't miss out on those sales that would come after 24 hrs on Amazon.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by AFI View Post

      I've been making money off of it for years with the domain parking. I don't see how this is any different.
      It's different because one gets noticed and the other doesn't. Just be prepared, Jennifer, because if he's still alive, his lawyer won't see it the same way as you. For myself, I wouldn't be willing to put any time/effort into developing a domain which infringes someone's civil law rights, knowing that they can take it off me at a moment's notice. Sorry.

      Originally Posted by Keyword Prodigy View Post

      I really don't see any problems.
      This is the height of naivety - it really is.
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  • Profile picture of the author vok
    I did the same thing with a domain I owned I just happened to send it to a simple page with a coupon code and a affiliate link next thing I know it's earning $300 -$500 a month just from typo traffic.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      We're getting into legal la-la land. I searched the trademark database and found no registration of the name as a trademark. Civil rights don't provide protection from someone having or using the same name you have that I've ever heard of in the US. My question would be "could I earn more from monetizing a site or from auctioning off the domain name?"
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      • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        We're getting into legal la-la land. I searched the trademark database and found no registration of the name as a trademark. Civil rights don't provide protection from someone having or using the same name you have that I've ever heard of in the US. My question would be "could I earn more from monetizing a site or from auctioning off the domain name?"
        True - but that doesn't mean they (the lawyers) certainly won't try anyway.

        OP - the best advice you should get would be first from an actual lawyer.

        Rob
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          I agree with you - only an attorney specializing in trademark issues could give a definitive answer. Which is why I posted we were moving into la-la land. However, a registered trademark would be definitive answer - and that doesn't seem to exist.
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      • Profile picture of the author DogScout
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        We're getting into legal la-la land. I searched the trademark database and found no registration of the name as a trademark. Civil rights don't provide protection from someone having or using the same name you have that I've ever heard of in the US. My question would be "could I earn more from monetizing a site or from auctioning off the domain name?"
        The Peter Criss trademark is in UK. You may not have anything to worry about from him, but since he has been described as 'practically illiterate', he no doubt has lots of financial people on the payroll and I am sure they can read very well.

        The reason you were probably not contacted so far is, KISS has a rep as being very, very fan friendly and I am sure they would rather a .net than mar that rep. I am also betting, if you made it a 'fan site', you could probably get permission for that very reason.

        Doing it 'under the table' is asking for a whooping. Easy to justify a suit if a 'fan' attempts to 'steal' from them. As long as it was parked, it was 'almost' innocent'. Actively monetizing it... exploiting the name, well, that is a different story.

        Attorney time. (Or better yet, public relation manager time.)
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Keyword Prodigy View Post

      Why nieve?
      Because reacting to the prospect of intentional cybersquatting for profit by saying "I really don't see any problems" suggests a blissful ignorance of the subject-matter under discussion (albeit apparently coupled with a willingness to express an opinion about it).
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    You are definitely asking for trouble with this domain name if you use it. Do you know that Peter Criss has an official website at petercriss.net?

    It's officially called cybersquatting when using celebrity names in a domain and he can go after you and get that domain from you or even sue if wanted to.
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    • Profile picture of the author AFI
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      You are definitely asking for trouble with this domain name if you use it. Do you know that Peter Criss has an official website at petercriss.net?

      It's officially called cybersquatting when using celebrity names in a domain and he can go after you and get that domain from you or even sue if wanted to.
      You didn't read the whole thread apparently.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        Since none of us are qualified to give legal opinions - doesn't matter. Check it with an attorney or take the chance - your choice. Of all the arguments given, the one abut selling K.I.S.S. stuff makes a good point.
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by AFI View Post

        You didn't read the whole thread apparently.
        Actually, yes I did read the whole thread and many other threads where people want to infringe on trademarks. I also read the articles on Celebrity Cybersquatting and the Anti-Cybersquatting Consumer Protection Act ("ACPA").

        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
        That's a law by the way.
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        • Profile picture of the author AFI
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          Actually, yes I did read the whole thread and many other threads where people want to infringe on trademarks. I also read the articles on Celebrity Cybersquatting and the Anti-Cybersquatting Consumer Protection Act ("ACPA").

          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
          That's a law by the way.
          I know what cybersquatting is. I've known for 10 years what it is, I'm not a newbie. That is why I posted a note on my site offering the site up to Peter and he did not come to collect. This is what makes me think he doesn't care.

          However what I've decided to do is get in contact with Peter himself and see if he cares if I turn it into a fan site.
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by AFI View Post

            I know what cybersquatting is. I've known for 10 years what it is, I'm not a newbie. That is why I posted a note on my site offering the site up to Peter and he did not come to collect. This is what makes me think he doesn't care.

            However what I've decided to do is get in contact with Peter himself and see if he cares if I turn it into a fan site.
            Good plan. Always a good idea to ask first if you're going to use someone's celebrity name for profit.
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          • Profile picture of the author Amber Jalink
            Originally Posted by AFI View Post

            I know what cybersquatting is. I've known for 10 years what it is, I'm not a newbie. That is why I posted a note on my site offering the site up to Peter and he did not come to collect. This is what makes me think he doesn't care.

            However what I've decided to do is get in contact with Peter himself and see if he cares if I turn it into a fan site.
            Hi Jennifer,

            This is probably the best idea - but be careful too though.

            According to wipo, you CAN be considered a cybersquatter if you are specifically using it to make money with it - and from my recollection, Amazon can ban that URL from being allowed to earn with it if they know you've got it.

            It's a tricky situation, because YES Respondants (yourself) have won, but usually on the terms that THEIR name was similar, or they weren't earning anything with it.

            You can search WIPO for cases that may be similar - I've had to go through a WIPO case on behalf of the respondent (and WON) - but it was a slightly different situation (not a celebrity).

            Here's the simple facts from wipo:

            "The UDRP provides several criteria to determine whether the complainant or registrant will prevail in an administrative proceeding. To obtain rights to a domain name, the complainant must prove (see §4.a):
            1. that the domain name is identical or confusingly similar to a trademark or service mark to which the complainant has rights;
            2. that the domain name holder has no rights or legitimate interests in respect of the domain name; and
            3. that the domain name has been registered and is being used in bad faith.
            “Bad faith” registration and use of a name may be found if the domain name was purchased for the purpose of (see §4.b):
            1. selling, renting, or otherwise transferring the domain name registration to the rightful trademark or service mark holder;
            2. preventing the mark holder from using the domain name;
            3. disrupting a competitor’s business; or
            4. for commercial purposes attempting to attract Internet users to the site by confusing consumers concerning its source, sponsorship, affiliation, or endorsement
            Domain name holders may invoke any of the following defenses to establish their rights or legitimate interests in a name (see §4.c):
            1. the use of the domain name in connection with a bona fide offering of goods or services;
            2. the registrant’s common association with the name (regardless of whether it obtains rights to the corresponding trademark or service mark); or
            3. noncommercial or fair use of the name. "
            So while you haven't PURPOSELY and in bad faith bought it to earn with it - even a fan site (owning the true name), they "could" complain.

            Your best interest would be to ask their permission as you've said.

            If they say okay - go for it. If they say no - consider your next steps carefully (aka, perhaps leave it as it is!)

            Amber
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            • Profile picture of the author AFI
              But I wonder if there is a Statute of Limitations or something though. I mean I've owned the domain since 1999 (I just checked) and he's never contacted me even though I put my details ON the domain and on the whois registrar.

              I just think if something DID happen and I got sued, I could have a case for "then why didn't you contact me sooner??" I dunno. It's tricky.

              I'm emailing Peter right now at the address on his official site.
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              • Profile picture of the author Amber Jalink
                Originally Posted by AFI View Post

                But I wonder if there is a Statute of Limitations or something though. I mean I've owned the domain since 1999 (I just checked) and he's never contacted me even though I put my details ON the domain and on the whois registrar.

                I just think if something DID happen and I got sued, I could have a case for "then why didn't you contact me sooner??" I dunno. It's tricky.

                I'm emailing Peter right now at the address on his official site.
                Well - you actually DO have that going for you.

                The fact that you DID put that info on the domain, and you DID say you'd give it to him for an autograph and they've never bothered - you could basically fight that you bought it as a fan but made the offer - and no one has ever contacted you, during this entire time.

                You would likely be okay... if they don't reply, you're good to go because you'd have double proof that you weren't out to "cybersquat" even unintentionally.

                NOT every celebrity wins

                Amber
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                • Profile picture of the author ReignBird
                  Originally Posted by dimeco View Post

                  Well - you actually DO have that going for you.

                  The fact that you DID put that info on the domain, and you DID say you'd give it to him for an autograph and they've never bothered - you could basically fight that you bought it as a fan but made the offer - and no one has ever contacted you, during this entire time.

                  You would likely be okay... if they don't reply, you're good to go because you'd have double proof that you weren't out to "cybersquat" even unintentionally.

                  NOT every celebrity wins

                  Amber
                  Yeah, Sting lost but that was because "Sting" isn't his real name. Whereas the Estate of Jimi Hendrix won.

                  I had gone over to genesimmons dot com after opening up this thread only to see it in apparent parked status while I was pretty certain I'd just read a couple posts over there, from Gene himself (a friend is a major GS fan, I'm more into Hendrix), only a few days or so back. Then I found this--

                  October 17, 2010

                  Gene Simmons Threatens Anonymous, Responds to DDoS Attacks Against His Site

                  "Some of you may have heard a few popcorn farts re: our sites being threatened by hackers," wrote KISS bassist Gene Simmons on his website yesterday, responding to a DDoS attack that took down Genesimmons dot com earlier this week.

                  The attack was part of Operation Payback, a campaign that over the past few weeks has been targeting organizations who legislate and litigate in support of copyright laws. Loosely organized by Anonymous, a group of Internet "vigilantes" has launched a series of denial-of-service attacks against the likes of the MPAA, the RIAA, the UK Intellectual Property Office, as well as against the KISS bassman.

                  The direct action campaign has effectively shut down sites that have been most vocal (and litigious) about their pro-copyright and anti-piracy stances. It has also targeted law offices that have been deemed to be part of a what TorrentFreak has called "pay-up-or-else" schemes, threats of legal action aimed at alleged file-sharers. Anonymous's DDoS attacks have targeted well over a dozen sites over the past few weeks.


                  According to TorrentFreak, the attacks against Gene Simmons were controversial among those associated with Anonymous, some arguing that it's better to target the legal mechanisms of the film and music industry, rather than artist themselves. But Simmons has painted a fairly large target on himself (or on his site, at least), by speaking out in recent weeks against file-sharing, arguing that the music industry should be suing more people: "Make sure your brand is protected, be litigious, sue anybody - take their homes, their cars, Don't let anybody cross that line."


                  Simmons's site is down at the time of publishing (Update: as of Monday morning, the website now redirects to the BitTorrent site PirateBay), but Slyck posted a copy of the response to the DDoS attack that was posted there yesterday:

                  Some of you may have heard a few popcorn farts re: our sites being threatened by hackers.

                  Our legal team and the FBI have been on the case and we have found a few, shall we say "adventurous" young people, who feel they are above the law.


                  And, as stated in my MIPCOM speech, we will sue their pants off.

                  First, they will be punished.

                  Second, they might find their little butts in jail, right next to someone who's been there for years and is looking for a new girl friend.


                  We will soon be printing their names and pictures.


                  We will find you.


                  You cannot hide.


                  Stay tuned


                  As Slyck notes, the ability to identify those who are participating in a distributed denial-of-service attack would be pretty challenging, if not impossible. But Simmons's threats and attitude (not to mention his lack of understanding of "hackers") echoes his misunderstanding that everyone who participates in peer-to-peer file-sharing is a criminal who needs to have their pants sued off or end up in jail.


                  Better round up the KISS Army, Gene. This battle could be brutal.
                  (post count here isn't high enough to include links)

                  So hopefully you won't be catching Gene, or Peter, or their legal teams, at a particularly bad time with respect to your plans for petercriss dot com.

                  Curious though why you didn't mention sooner in the thread that you're selling Gene's stuff?

                  At any rate, good luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
    Yeah, I agree...you are asking for trouble here.

    The reason it hasn't been noticed now is because you have, in essence, been flying under the radar.

    You make a public website and start drawing the attention of the big Search Engines, it won't take very long before you are in the cross hairs of Kiss and their lawyers.

    Rob
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    • Profile picture of the author balilong
      Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

      Yeah, I agree...you are asking for trouble here.

      The reason it hasn't been noticed now is because you have, in essence, been flying under the radar.

      You make a public website and start drawing the attention of the big Search Engines, it won't take very long before you are in the cross hairs of Kiss and their lawyers.

      Rob
      considering it was on 1998??? its like 10+ years now :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author mikebrooks
    I'm pretty sure Gene Simmons owns Peter Criss.

    I'd be careful. Pretty certain you can't own someone elses name to sell their likeness.

    So if you were selling say woodburning stoves on that site you'd probably be fine. But as soon as you start selling Kiss stuff, you won't hear from Peter Criss... You'll hear from Gene Simmons lawyers. I can almost guarantee that.
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    • Profile picture of the author AFI
      Originally Posted by mikebrooks View Post

      I'm pretty sure Gene Simmons owns Peter Criss.
      Actually Gene Simmons doesn't own Peter Criss. He owns 50% of his makeup rights and Peter owns the other 50%. That is how come Eric Singer can dress up as Peter and still get away with it. I know more about this franchise than most of the people here, so I'm not really going into it with complete ignorance.

      I'm not worried about Gene Simmons. He has given Amazon.com permission to sell KISS merch. The only thing I would be worried about would be Peter himself. But like I said, I have given him the opportunity to contact me for several years and he did not.
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      • Profile picture of the author mikebrooks
        That's cool. If you're prepared and in the know on this then go for it. I hope it works for you.

        I just know there's a few business people out there I wouldn't mess with and Gene Simmons is one of them.

        If you're going to sell Kiss stuff though, you'll need permission and will prob have to pay them royalties.

        But I know there are laws against owning a business a persons domain name. I was pointed to it a few years back when a competing business moved right accross the street from me and I bought the domain name of his biz.

        I was just so surprised that someone wouldn't register their own business domain name that I bought it. Not the smartest move I made.

        All I had to do was give it back though. I bet as soon as you start monetizing it you'll hear from Criss and or Kiss' legal folks.

        In any case, I hope I'm wrong and you make millions of dollars with it. Seriously.
        Originally Posted by AFI View Post

        Actually Gene Simmons doesn't own Peter Criss. He owns 50% of his makeup rights and Peter owns the other 50%. That is how come Eric Singer can dress up as Peter and still get away with it. I know more about this franchise than most of the people here, so I'm not really going into it with complete ignorance.

        I'm not worried about Gene Simmons. He has given Amazon.com permission to sell KISS merch. The only thing I would be worried about would be Peter himself. But like I said, I have given him the opportunity to contact me for several years and he did not.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    However, this does not prevent an unscrupulous cybersquatter from registering a domain name that contains somebody else’s personal name, such as www.JohnSmith.com. Congress recognized this loophole, and sought to address it in the Anti-Cybersquatting Consumer Protection Act ("ACPA"). Among other things, the ACPA prevents a person from registering a domain name that consists of the personal name of another living person, or a substantially and confusingly similar name, with the specific intent of profiting from the sale of the domain name. Therefore, in order to invoke this section of the ACPA, the cybersquatter must have intended to sell the domain name for profit.

    In certain cases, a personal name—such as a celebrity’s name—can acquire sufficient recognition to become a trademark. For example, it has been found that the singer Celine Dion has acquired trademark rights in her name because in addition to her fame, she uses her name in connection with a variety of goods and services. Where a person’s name has achieved trademark status, he or she can rely on the less restrictive provisions of the ACPA to obtain relief. In this case, the name’s owner need only show that the cybersquatter registered the domain name in bad faith—rather than showing that the cybersquatter sought to sell the domain name for financial gain.
    Cybersquatting, Domain Law Resource - Celebrity Domain Names And Personal Name Domains
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  • Profile picture of the author Keyword Prodigy
    I own a domain containing a very famous celebrity's name. I have no problem as I know the actress and she gave me permission to monetize the website any way I want.

    If in doubt contact the person and talk to them.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Keyword Prodigy View Post

      I know the actress and she gave me permission to monetize the website any way I want.
      A radically different situation from the one being discussed here, don't you think? :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author mikebrooks
    I also believe it's better to ask for forgiveness than permission. As long as asking for forgiveness doesn't mean having to pay damages or go to jail though.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheRichLife
    There are so many ways to make money without the risk involved in a site like this. Why develop a site that will eventually land you on the receiving end of a lawsuit? Peter Criss may not be very literate, but I guarantee you his lawyers and business managers are.
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    • Profile picture of the author balilong
      Originally Posted by TheRichLife View Post

      There are so many ways to make money without the risk involved in a site like this. Why develop a site that will eventually land you on the receiving end of a lawsuit? Peter Criss may not be very literate, but I guarantee you his lawyers and business managers are.
      and all those advisers will convince peter criss and eventually the sad part they will try to bribe him.

      It's really a slap in the forehead knowing what a simple thing you did had a huge consequences in the future and its even happening now.
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  • Profile picture of the author Don Schenk
    I am going to consult an internet lawyer about it first however.
    Jennifer, the lawyer you need is called an Intellectual Property attorney. Most larger firms will have them, and there may be a few small firms in your area with lawyers who do this very specialized work.

    :-Don
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  • Profile picture of the author Ryan Dunn
    If he wants the domain, he could just take it from you.
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    • Profile picture of the author AFI
      Originally Posted by ryan_d View Post

      If he wants the domain, he could just take it from you.
      Exactly!! And I've even had a note up on it for YEARS stating that he could have it just for an autograph and a picture. He doesn't want it apparently. That's why I've been trying to tell you that I don't believe he has a case for cybersquatting. My whois details have always been public too.

      What I will NOT be doing, however, is using the KISS logo. Mr. Simmons won't even let fan sites use the KISS logo. My friend Chris ran "The KISS Asylum" which was the hugest KISS fan site for years and Gene made him remove the logo from the page.
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      • Profile picture of the author unclepennybags
        Petercriss.com is the best you could do? No Genesimmons.com or paulstanley.com? Hah I'm just kidding.

        That is actually interesting. I wonder if people still want his stuff. I read Money Sex KISS by Gene and he was boasting about how huge their merchandising company was and still is so good luck as they are touring again.

        By the way that book is a great read for motivating people to get rich.
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  • Profile picture of the author DogScout
    Usually, I'd suspect talking to the celebrity a waste of time and would just lose you the adsense income you've been getting, but in this case, with KISS's rep, I'd say it is worth a try.
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    • Profile picture of the author darrenmonroe
      I say use the highest converting Kiss associated affiliate program. Plus sell indirect kiss items legally say as a affiliate for a fan memorabilia site.
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      • Profile picture of the author AFI
        "Due Diligence" is the phrase I've been trying to think of.....I think that by having my whois info public and my contact information up on the site for a good 3 years offering the site to Mr. Criss, I've done my "due diligence" to show good faith that I am not a cybersquatter.

        So anyway we'll see. If he responds, I'll let you guys know.
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        • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
          Originally Posted by AFI View Post

          But I wonder if there is a Statute of Limitations or something though. I mean I've owned the domain since 1999 (I just checked) and he's never contacted me even though I put my details ON the domain and on the whois registrar.

          I just think if something DID happen and I got sued, I could have a case for "then why didn't you contact me sooner??" I dunno. It's tricky.
          No such luck. Your participation is still active. (Again, not legal advice )

          The possibility of them contacting you years ago is still on the table even though you have no awareness of that ever happening (happened to me once, got screwed in 2004 found out they had notified me in 1998 ). Once a notice has been given the party giving notice can sit back and wait for the money to accumulate. Sometimes with treble damages.

          It's often wisest to let sleeping dogs lie. Not always the case, so please keep us updated.

          ~Bill
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          • Profile picture of the author AFI
            Oh and another reason I am not concerned with Gene Simmons is that DUH, I'm selling HIS merchandise. He's getting a cut of it no doubt! He's probably pissed that I HAVEN'T monetized this domain!
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            • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
              Originally Posted by AFI View Post

              Oh and another reason I am not concerned with Gene Simmons is that DUH, I'm selling HIS merchandise. He's getting a cut of it no doubt! He's probably pissed that I HAVEN'T monetized this domain!
              The title of this thread is making more sense as time goes on...

              j/k

              ~Bill
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  • Profile picture of the author King Shiloh
    Banned
    But is he the only Peter Criss on planet earth?
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    • Profile picture of the author TheRichLife
      Originally Posted by King Shiloh View Post

      But is he the only Peter Criss on planet earth?
      He's the only one who is in the band Kiss.
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      • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
        Originally Posted by TheRichLife View Post

        He's the only one who is in the band Kiss.
        Don't tell Gene Simmons that...:rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author David McKee
    This whole cyber squatting thing sounds sketchy - What if my name was "Peter Criss"? Then he would not have a leg to stand on if I used the site, unless...I use it to sell stuff with regard to him. That would be the only way to show "cyber squatting".

    But that brings up a whole different issue. If you buy a piece of property that I want, my only recourse is to try to get you to sell it to me. Period. A domain name is property, and as such should only belong to the person who purchased it.

    -DTM
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by David McKee View Post

      This whole cyber squatting thing sounds sketchy - What if my name was "Peter Criss"? Then he would not have a leg to stand on if I used the site, unless...I use it to sell stuff with regard to him. That would be the only way to show "cyber squatting".

      But that brings up a whole different issue. If you buy a piece of property that I want, my only recourse is to try to get you to sell it to me. Period. A domain name is property, and as such should only belong to the person who purchased it.

      -DTM
      You're not famous right? You could own petercriss.com and post information about yourself, and no ... if you register it ... it is not your property if the trademark belongs to someone else.
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      • Profile picture of the author Amber Jalink
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        You're not famous right? You could own petercriss.com and post information about yourself, and no ... if you register it ... it is not your property if the trademark belongs to someone else.
        Well, yes and no. If your name is petercriss, and you post information about yourself - even if it is owned as a trademark, if you use it for your OWN personal use, you wouldn't be forced to give it up 'necessarily'.

        I've read through many of the WIPO cases, and typically when a respondent wins its because it's their own name, AND they aren't trying to profit from the "other" persons' name.

        However, if your name is petercriss and you ARE trying to profit from the celebrity who has the same name and they trademarked it, then yeah - tough on you.

        When a case goes to WIPO - it takes (if I recall) up to 3 lawyers to review the case and agree on whatever the decision is.

        A WIPO case is costly - FOR the complainant (in this case, "peter criss", or the lawyers of KISS or whomever holds the trademark to his name). THEY have to initiate the proceedings.

        No one else can/would. (i.e., a respondent won't create a claim against themselves LOL).

        So IF the complainant files - Jennifer would have to give it up "IF" she lost (which would be likely).

        Typically, the complainant is responsible to show that they've at the very least contacted the owner of the site and tried to get it back BEFORE filing a claim.

        When I went through this for my client - it was from her former partner who filed the complaint.

        The lawyer for him first contacted me and threatened me (I had changed the website that my client owned, and the former partner didn't like it).

        To make a long story short - he could threaten me all he wanted, but

        1) he never even offered to BUY the website (and the lawyer considered that)
        2) they never offered to compensate my client NOR me for my time involved, they just kept threatening.

        It was me who directed them to WIPO and told them if they have issue with it they had to file a complaint there. (HE was "reverse cybersquatting" in a way, he did NOT have the rights to the site).

        Anyway - The former partner had to pay the big bucks to file the complaint, AND all legal fees to his lawyer.

        And little 'ole me won against that lawyer

        But - I knew the internet 'laws' for the most part and I read EVERYTHING I could get my hands on regarding WIPO cases.

        No, I'm not a lawyer, but if I wasn't on the net, I did want to be one :p

        So - what it comes down to is,

        1) The trademark owner SHOULD be coming forward "if" they wanted it

        2) They SHOULD show at least proper respect by offering to cover the fees she's incurred over these years (i.e., she's not attempting to sell coke.com for a million bucks - but hosting/renewals cost $ and the courts would consider her to be compensated for it if she did "lose" and fought that part).

        3) they would Then have to take it to WIPO and prove SHE was purposely cybersquatting.

        The fact that they haven't even tried to contact her - even by phone if email bounced by chance - says that very likely they won't bother with a WIPO case, and they won't bother trying to get it back.

        ~~ NOT legal advice here ~~ Just what I would suspect.

        It'll be interesting to see how this goes.

        Amber
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by dimeco View Post

          Well, yes and no. If your name is petercriss, and you post information about yourself - even if it is owned as a trademark, if you use it for your OWN personal use, you wouldn't be forced to give it up 'necessarily'.
          Well, that's sort of exactly what I said, if you read the post. But hey ... her name ain't Peter Criss, so it's a moot point.
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    • Profile picture of the author DogScout
      Originally Posted by David McKee View Post

      This whole cyber squatting thing sounds sketchy - What if my name was "Peter Criss"? Then he would not have a leg to stand on if I used the site, unless...I use it to sell stuff with regard to him. That would be the only way to show "cyber squatting".

      But that brings up a whole different issue. If you buy a piece of property that I want, my only recourse is to try to get you to sell it to me. Period. A domain name is property, and as such should only belong to the person who purchased it.

      -DTM
      But that is not the law. IF your name was Peter Criss, you'd have a case and precedent is that you would win. Precedent also indicates it will cost you thousands to defend the case. Ask Nissan Computers.
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      • Profile picture of the author AFI
        Originally Posted by DogScout View Post

        But that is not the law. IF your name was Peter Criss, you'd have a case and precedent is that you would win. Precedent also indicates it will cost you thousands to defend the case. Ask Nissan Computers.
        And Fry's Electronics. They were held up for YEARS with a cybersquatting case.
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      • Profile picture of the author David McKee
        Originally Posted by DogScout View Post

        But that is not the law. IF your name was Peter Criss, you'd have a case and precedent is that you would win. Precedent also indicates it will cost you thousands to defend the case. Ask Nissan Computers.
        Well, now your talking Tort reform - If Nissan Computer won the case, then Nissan Car Company should pay all costs. I realize that it is not the way it is currently, that is why many lawyers are such scum, but that is another topic for another thread.

        My specific argument was that, technically speaking, if some person becomes famous and they have the same name as you, that does not automatically grant them ownership of a domain you have purchased that contains your name.

        -DTM.
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by David McKee View Post

          My specific argument was that, technically speaking, if some person becomes famous and they have the same name as you, that does not automatically grant them ownership of a domain you have purchased that contains your name.

          -DTM.
          No ... but it certainly does provide protection to the celebrity from every Peter Criss in the world capitalizing off of "their" name, buy making the site about THE Peter Criss of KISS, rather than the Peter Criss from bumf*c*.

          They can of course use the site to do a Peter Criss non-commercial fansite or parody site, but really ... this has nothing to do with a "Jennifer" using the Peter Criss of KISS name in a commercial manner
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          • Profile picture of the author David McKee
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            No ... but it certainly does provide protection to the celebrity from every Peter Criss in the world capitalizing off of "their" name, buy making the site about THE Peter Criss of KISS, rather than the Peter Criss from bumf*c*.

            They can of course use the site to do a Peter Criss non-commercial fansite or parody site, but really ... this has nothing to do with a "Jennifer" using the Peter Criss of KISS name in a commercial manner
            Agreed. I believe we may be in violent agreement - and I think Jennifer may have gotten awful close to the line on your second point.

            I just have a real "thing" about property rights...and tend to get feisty about them, realizing of course, that celebrities also have the same rights and should not have their own ability to profit from their skills/name/etc. taken from them either.

            -DTM
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            • Profile picture of the author AFI
              Originally Posted by David McKee View Post

              Agreed. I believe we may be in violent agreement - and I think Jennifer may have gotten awful close to the line on your second point.

              I just have a real "thing" about property rights...and tend to get feisty about them, realizing of course, that celebrities also have the same rights and should not have their own ability to profit from their skills/name/etc. taken from them either.

              -DTM
              By the way.....I need to point out that I registered this domain WAY BEFORE there was even a cybersquatting law. And it wasn't out of the fact that I wanted to snatch it up before he did. I just was a fan and thought it was cool to own the name of the drummer.

              So for anyone who thinks I was trying to exploit property rights or a trademark can KISS my ass. (pun intended)
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              • Profile picture of the author Amber Jalink
                Originally Posted by AFI View Post

                By the way.....I need to point out that I registered this domain WAY BEFORE there was even a cybersquatting law. And it wasn't out of the fact that I wanted to snatch it up before he did. I just was a fan and thought it was cool to own the name of the drummer.

                So for anyone who thinks I was trying to exploit property rights or a trademark can KISS my ass. (pun intended)
                We know

                Have you heard anything yet?

                Amber
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  • Profile picture of the author Slade556
    It would have been far more idiotic to have it for another ten years and not realize what to do with it. At least now you can monetize it and the domain age is fantastic also. Better realizing its value late than never.
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  • Profile picture of the author mkpoway
    I have a hypothetical question that is relevant to this discussion. Let's say Britney Spears is coming out with a new handbag line this Christmas, which will be sold at Macy's. I discover Macy's has an affiliate program. Can I register a domain like "britneyspearshandbags.com" or "britneyspearsbags.com" and use it as an affiliate site to send traffic to Macy's?
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    • Profile picture of the author davidjames42973
      The way I would possibly approach this is to also add a way that people could donate to the Peter Criss Breast Cancer Awareness Program from your website.

      This way if you are thrown out to the lions (AKA Gene Simmons) you could tell them that you were hoping to bring in more money to charity.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by mkpoway View Post

      I have a hypothetical question that is relevant to this discussion. Let's say Britney Spears is coming out with a new handbag line this Christmas, which will be sold at Macy's. I discover Macy's has an affiliate program. Can I register a domain like "britneyspearshandbags.com" or "britneyspearsbags.com" and use it as an affiliate site to send traffic to Macy's?
      If you don't mind potentially getting a cease and desist or a lawsuit from Britney Spears, no one will stop you from registering it.
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      • Profile picture of the author mkpoway
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        If you don't mind potentially getting a cease and desist or a lawsuit from Britney Spears, no one will stop you from registering it.
        That's what I meant. When am I risking getting a cease and desist - is it merely including the celebrities name in my domain name, or is it trying to create a commercial website that leverages their name?
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by mkpoway View Post

          That's what I meant. When am I risking getting a cease and desist - is it merely including the celebrities name in my domain name, or is it trying to create a commercial website that leverages their name?
          Depends on what affiliate program you are using. Some affiliate programs do not allow the trademark name of a product in the domain or as a keyword in an Adwords campaign, etc. But you should not use Britney Spears' name in your domain name.
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  • Profile picture of the author warriorbg
    Strike man/woman , strike !!!
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  • Profile picture of the author neodarth
    At least you could have Peter's signature in a lawsuit document... not the kind of autograph that I liked though...
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    Jennifer, you may as well keep holding onto it now.

    Let it sit. Don't do anything with it.

    Keep flying under the radar, then auction it off at the best possible moment...

    Well...

    Best possible for you, but worst possible for Mr. Criss (if you follow).

    All the best,
    Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author Julie M
    Interesting situation, but it sounds like you know your stuff Jennifer - so I'm sure you'll figure it out just fine
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  • Profile picture of the author louiefrias
    Haha! Now Get Busy!
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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    Do the right thing, and sell it to Mr Criss.
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    • Profile picture of the author AFI
      Originally Posted by ramone_johnny View Post

      Do the right thing, and sell it to Mr Criss.
      AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!! That just made me snort my soda up my nose. The REAL right thing would be to give it to him, not sell it to him.

      Anyway I've emailed him and I am awaiting his response. It's between him and I now.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
        Originally Posted by AFI View Post

        AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!! That just made me snort my soda up my nose. The REAL right thing would be to give it to him, not sell it to him.

        Anyway I've emailed him and I am awaiting his response. It's between him and I now.
        Well I did infact want to suggest that you give it to him, and not sell it.

        I just wasn't sure if you would respond favourably to that as it seems you're more set upon monetizing the site for profit, or at least "were" when you first initiated this thread.

        Best of luck with it.
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  • Profile picture of the author DrewClement
    You know what's idiotic?

    Asking for advice and then rebutting and arguing against every piece of information or opinion you are given.

    Seems to me you have/had your mind made up from the get-go.....

    So why bother wasting your time and the time of others to ask a question to which you apparently already know the answer?
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    • Profile picture of the author AFI
      Originally Posted by DrewClement View Post

      You know what's idiotic?

      Asking for advice and then rebutting and arguing against every piece of information or opinion you are given.

      Seems to me you have/had your mind made up from the get-go.....

      So why bother wasting your time and the time of others to ask a question to which you apparently already know the answer?
      You know what's even MORE idiotic?? The fact that I wasn't asking for any advice whatsoever and you thought I did. I only stated what I was going to do.
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      • Profile picture of the author DrewClement
        Originally Posted by AFI View Post

        You know what's even MORE idiotic?? The fact that I wasn't asking for any advice whatsoever and you thought I did. I only stated what I was going to do.

        Ahhh I gotcha now. So you arent even asking for advice or willing to take into account any valuable advice that is given to you within a discussion on the topic to which you began a thread?

        Just another one looking to toot their own horn and gain respect and credibility among the forum?

        Should we expect a:

        "How I made $xxx,xxx in 7 days by profiting off of someone else's name....EVEN THOUGH "WARRIORS" Told Me Not To!!!!!"

        Ebook or WSO to arrive soon????

        Cant wait...Im tickled with excitement
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        • Profile picture of the author AFI
          Originally Posted by DrewClement View Post

          Ahhh I gotcha now. So you arent even asking for advice or willing to take into account any valuable advice that is given to you within a discussion on the topic to which you began a thread?

          Just another one looking to toot their own horn and gain respect and credibility among the forum?

          Should we expect a:

          "How I made ,xxx in 7 days by profiting off of someone else's name....EVEN THOUGH "WARRIORS" Told Me Not To!!!!!"

          Ebook or WSO to arrive soon????

          Cant wait...Im tickled with excitement
          I was tooting my own horn?? :confused::confused::confused:

          I believe that I called myself an "idiot" for not monetizing the site sooner. You really have a warped perception of reality. It's bizarre.
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        • Profile picture of the author ReignBird
          Originally Posted by DrewClement View Post

          Ahhh I gotcha now. So you arent even asking for advice or willing to take into account any valuable advice that is given to you within a discussion on the topic to which you began a thread?

          Just another one looking to toot their own horn and gain respect and credibility among the forum?

          Should we expect a:

          "How I made ,xxx in 7 days by profiting off of someone else's name....EVEN THOUGH "WARRIORS" Told Me Not To!!!!!"

          Ebook or WSO to arrive soon????

          Cant wait...Im tickled with excitement

          Yeah, it's a peculiar series of posts by OP, the slack def of "due diligence" and so on aside.
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  • Profile picture of the author sachihawaii
    Originally Posted by AFI View Post

    I've been sitting on a goldmine since 2001 and didn't even think of it. You see I own the domain "petercriss.com" and for those of you who may be 70s Metal Heads know that Peter Criss is the original drummer of the rock band KISS.
    I've been here in the past with a similar situation Unfortunately I let the domain expire and that was that.

    Anyway, I'd definitely look into a few more details. Try and look at some of Google's analytics tools to see how many monthly searches some of the targeted keywords might generate. That might give you a baseline estimate about profitability and marketability for such a venture. If it sounds like something you might want to pursue, then consider consulting with an internet law lawyer.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
    I'm astounded that you think having a note on the site
    is tantamount to notifying him of anything... ROFLMAO

    Tsnyder
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    If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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    • Profile picture of the author ReignBird
      Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

      I'm astounded that you think having a note on the site
      is tantamount to notifying him of anything... ROFLMAO

      Tsnyder

      Particularly after the apparent legal difficulties a person with the same name as that domain owner listing at NetSol, living in the same state, had not all that long ago.

      C'est la vie and que sera. And best of luck to the OP.
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  • Profile picture of the author Crystal smith
    How can he just take it?
    He doesnt own it...

    To be safe, maybe you should just legally change ur name to peter criss... ha ha
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  • Profile picture of the author robinincarolina
    Not sure if you are near as stupid as I am, I think I have you beat. Not sure though. I am still pretty new at this. I had what I call "rented" a domain. Silly me let it expire, did not think anything about it really. Tried to renew. Opps, it's now for sale. I am not even gonna tell you what it is selling for. 5 figures though. Not sure how this is stupid on my part, but something tells me it is.
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  • Profile picture of the author AFI
    Haven't heard anything yet
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    • Profile picture of the author smeagols_twin
      I don't see you getting into any major trouble. If there are any problems with the domain name they will most likely contact you and warn you before taking you to court.

      Chances are they won't though. They are still making their money through the Amazon products you're selling. KISS would be more likely to care if you were using the site as a fansite and NOT making money off it as they would view it as a wasted opportunity.
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  • i tried registering all the chileans miners names, especially the foreman and the other guy, they were all taken. this is how i found out you can register someone elses names. all the other chilean miner domains i could think of were gone too. lol. you name it, it was taken. chileanminersmovie.com, chileanminersstory.com,chilean33.com,chileanminers rescue.com, all of them gone!

    anyway..im new here and wasn't planning on looking at this thread, i need help with Kajabi page building, i need a kajabi-master!
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    • Profile picture of the author Thomas Wilkinson
      Originally Posted by HotDamnShortSales View Post

      i tried registering all the chileans miners names, especially the foreman and the other guy, they were all taken. this is how i found out you can register someone else names
      You were on the right track. Watch news stories and strike like a Cobra. I can buy a name and have some kind of site up in an hour or so and improve it over a few days. Most of the ones relating to the recent disaster in Japan were registered within a few hours.

      Thomas
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      When you hear someone telling you what YOU can't do, they are usually talking about what THEY can't do.
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  • Profile picture of the author paulie888
    Have you heard back from Peter or his lawyers yet? I'm really curious to see how this plays out. For all intents and purposes, especially considering you've had this domain for over 10 years and have tried to reach out to him about it, it looks like Peter and his lawyers don't really care! It'd be good to get some written confirmation though.

    Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Thomas Wilkinson
    OK, there is a guy over in St Pete that has the same name as I do. Does that mean I get to sue him because he owns the dot com to my (his) name. His ex High School girlfriend actually tracked me on some site called Mylife something. Didn't take her long to figure out she was looking for a 35 year old guy with hair from Des Moines not a 60 year old one legged bald guy from Tampa. I gave her his right number.
    It always amazes me how many lawyers we have here at the Warrior forum. They always come out of the woodwork in droves when there is a thread like this.

    Thomas
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    When you hear someone telling you what YOU can't do, they are usually talking about what THEY can't do.
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