"More Bad News"...

by Dana_W

Posted: 16 years ago 26 replies

INTERNET MARKETING

After getting emails with that subject line from THREE internet marketers yesterday...and then coming over here and seeing John Taylor's thread and realizing that everyone was doing this because of Frank Kern's video series...

One of the internet marketers from yesterday just sent me an email with the subject line "More Bad News!" As if the subject line wasn't stupid enough yesterday!

I seriously can't believe that these internet marketers are just copying a tactic without even the slightest little change. It just makes them look like mindless morons and it completely kills their credibility. If you're out there telling people how to do something, in theory you should be a leader, an innovator, not someone who parrots the masters rather than learning from them.

David Deutsch sent out an email promoting Frank Kern's video with the subject line "How To Write A Must-Open Subject Line". Now THAT one I opened!!

I do wonder, though, if despite the complete idiocy of dozens of internet marketers sending out these stupid subject lines - are they are having high open rates and conversion rates because of it?

#frank kern

crimsonblack

16 years ago

LOL>> It made for some funny laughs

I think I got about 20 emails that says

BAD NEWS....

after the 3rd I stopped opening them.. so i guess you could say it might have the reverse effect once eveyone catches on

Though in small niches where people are not internet savvy and on thousands of email lists.. chances are it would work like hot cakes..

Frank is a smart cookie..

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Scott Ames 16 years ago

LOL. that's funny...

I imagine if a spoof video were put out where the perfect subject line were: Peanut butter and Jelly News or something silly, I'm sure people would start using it.
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BIG Mike

Banned 16 years ago

[DELETED]

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lgibbon Banned 16 years ago

Originally Posted by BIG Mike

I didn't get a single one - glad I'm out of the loop

Me neither Mike,

My email filter must be doing it's job.
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Dana_W 16 years ago

Aw, Mike, nobody loves you enough to spam you with pointless emails! I feel terrible for you.

I agree that this would work better outside of the IM field. Especially because most of us are on a lot of internet marketers lists, so we will see the same subject line from a whole bunch of these copycats and figure out something is up. If it were a weight loss list, or a pet care list, or something like that, I think the technique would be WAY more effective - but even then, changing it just a little bit is so much smarter.

Damn you and your mass hypnosis machine, Frank Kern!
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crimsonblack

16 years ago

Originally Posted by BIG Mike

I didn't get a single one - glad I'm out of the loop

But then Mike how do you get all the COOL

" This is going to change the Face of Internet Marketing Forever " 92th ebook

or

"You have just got to have this, because I make a big commission from it " LOL

or

" The Gurus are going to be so Mad "

or

" They dont want me to show you this, I have no idea who im on about but they dont want me to show you this .. " lol

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Anup Mahajan

16 years ago

I got one with the Subject "Very Bad News"...

I won't name the marketer but it started with

I wish I wasn't the one that had to break the bad news
to you...

But I thought you should hear it from me first.

I didn't know how to react to that one specially after reading so many emails with the subject "Bad News"..

Can any marketer give me some good news please?

Cheers,
Anup

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crimsonblack

16 years ago

Originally Posted by anup.mahajan

I got one with the Subject "Very Bad News"...

I won't name the marketer but it started with

I didn't know how to react to that one specially after reading so many emails with the subject "Bad News"..

Can any marketer give me some good news please?

Cheers,
Anup

yes give me $97 and then i will send you an email after that reads

Subject: Good News

Message: Hey all, I just bought a new boat, house, car and im waking up at 2:00pm, working 2 hours a week... Hope you like the Ebook I sent, not sure if it will help you.. but it will give you the warm fuzzy feeling: ) and thats all that matter right..

Next week.. wait for my next email entitled

Subject: Ebook 2 Killer - You give me more money continues..... LOL...

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Anup Mahajan

16 years ago

Originally Posted by crimsonblack

Ha ha ha that was too good

Cheers,
Anup

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Dennis Wagoner 16 years ago

I understand the whole hook thing that most people
are a sucker for the pain of others...

but c'mon, show some original thinkin'!

Once I get an email with a certain "hook" subject line,
I just delete the repeats with the same line.

I see it once, that's enough for me to make up my
mind whether or not I wanna read it again.

But hey, that's just me.
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- Alan Petersen 16 years ago
  
  Peter brought up a valid point. We're not always our target audience. However I'm assuming Dana is getting these "bad news" emails from Internet marketers--sending them to their IM list. So we are our own target audience. :-)
  
  Sure not everyone is as informed as members of the Internet marketing forums but still. It appears those folks watched Frank Kern's video and all they got from it was use "bad news" on your email subject line. Which wasn't at all what that video was all about. But the herd mentality just reacts without understanding the entire concept and they end up looking like thoughtless lemmings.
  
  I did my email list pruning a couple months ago to unsubscribe from useless and clueless lists and it appears to have worked as a charm since I haven't received one single "bad news" type email. :-)
  
  It's amazing to see the influence Frank Kern has. He does a video and boom the herd is on the move. Pretty impressive.
  
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  Daniel E Taylor 16 years ago
  
  I used the "Bad News" subject line verbatim, and
  it kicked ass!
  
  The whole concept was great. Although it probably
  shouldn't be used in the IM arena ever again.
  
  Quit bitching tho. It's useless.
  
  Daniel
  
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  Dana_W 16 years ago
  
  Well, there's our answer! It works! The first time, anyway. I guess it pays to be an early adopter.
  
  The concept's great. The problem is that most internet marketers are on the same lists, so the subject line loses its power after the first email arrives.
  
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  1 reply
  
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  DavidPreston 16 years ago
  
  I also received several of those and yes,
  the herd is on the move.
  
  One of the best I've seen at great subject
  lines is Jay White. He gave away a free video
  series about effective autoresponder messages.
  
  It was a fantastic series! Look it up and see if
  it's still available on the net. The best subject
  line I've ever used came from the "different"
  train of thought Jay teaches in there.
  
  Here it is:
  
  I'm recovering from a catfight Name...
  
  Since everybody knows I'm a guy, that went
  over with crazy open rates. :-)
  
  In the body I went on to tell them that I
  accidently stepped on my cat when getting
  off the sofa with laptop in hand. I dropped
  the laptop in the process of peeling the cat
  off my leg. (Good thing I had insurance!)
  
  Response to that email and offer was great,
  along with a few offers for first aid....
  
  Just thought that may help in the quest for
  better open rates. ;-)
  
  David
  
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Peter Bestel

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Dana_W

I do wonder, though, if despite the complete idiocy of dozens of internet marketers sending out these stupid subject lines - are they are having high open rates and conversion rates because of it?

Dana, this is the important point - does it work? It may be brainless copying - but does it work?

Why did you choose the title of this thread? Because it was descriptive or because it would get people to open the post?

Peter

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Dana_W

16 years ago

You're a genius, Peter! Yes, I did choose that title to get people to open the thread - although I did it because pretty much everyone on this forum knows about the whole "bad news" email subject line, not because I thought I'd trick them into thinking this was a post about bad news.

It's true, if the copycat subject lines work, I guess it's worth it. I just think they'd work equally as well with minor changes. The "bad news" thing is just an example Frank Kern gave - there's a million ways to rework that.

I wonder if tommorrow I'll get email with subject lines "Even worse news" or "Son of The Bride of More Bad News The Thirteenth Part Two."

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Lance K

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Dana_W

I wonder if tommorrow I'll get email with subject lines "Even worse news" or "Son of The Bride of More Bad News The Thirteenth Part Two."

How about "Did you miss yesterday's breaking news?" or something like that.

Anyway, the most baffling thing about your OP is that nobody has commented on what a TOTAL GENIUS David Deutsch is.

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Lance K

16 years ago

And another thing...anyone who thinks the 2 words "bad news" encompass the entire depth of Frank's lesson has missed the point badly. So what if a bunch of people copy catted "bad news" verbatim. It may not have been the wisest choice (especially if they're in the same market as Frank). But at least they tested it. And once they see it's effectiveness, perhaps the lesson will fully sink in and the creative juices will start flowing.

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Steven Wagenheim

16 years ago

Dana, I sent out an email to my list with the subject "Don't Let Frank Kern
Brainwash You" where I went on to explain how they should learn the
techniques and not just spit them back word for word.

I got back quite a few emails telling me what a great newsletter it was.

I had "bad news" in the content and NOT in the subject and it worked like
gangbusters.

Those who lead...succeed.

Those who follow...wallow.

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Lance K

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Dana, I sent out an email to my list with the subject "Don't Let Frank Kern
Brainwash You" where I went on to explain how they should learn the
techniques and not just spit them back word for word.

And that was a good move. If you're promoting to the IM/MMO niche then people are aware of the Frank Kern buzz. What you did is hit that buzz from a different angle.

That's what the whole "bad news" thing is about. Finding the angle that gets people's attention and makes them want to know more.

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Dana_W 16 years ago

The impressive thing about Frank Kern is that even his free stuff is great. I actually learn something from just about every free thing that he provides. It's hard to come up with anything new or even a new take on things in the IM market, and yet he does it. I'm not putting down him, or his methods, at all. I'm just laughing at the people who blindly copy a technique like this without putting their own spin on it - I think they've lost quite a bit of credibility with most of the people that they sent those emails to.

Steven, I'm on your list! Your emails are great.
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Kay King

16 years ago

It's amazing to see the influence Frank Kern has. He does a video and boom the herd is on the move. Pretty impressive.

Yup - he's one of the few marketers who can produce a video and have forums and emails explode with with his name in the title. The man can produce BUZZ.

Even the clone drones who will likely never see much money from their lemming emails still have the effect of getting people to discuss Frank.
How brilliant is that? Very!

Don't focus on the "buzz" created - watch the process that creates it.

kay

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Dean Shainin

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Watching the process is what will make all the difference in the world to marketers that take action. Many right here on the forum have already done so by piggy backing on the 'bad news' topic.

Very interesting to watch to say the least...

Actually very smart to put 'bad news' into action within WF threads whether one is testing or simply just making a point or just posting their own point of view.

I've noticed I've been reading them.

The primary point I got from Frank Kern's video is the dark side of human nature.

The pretty flowers in the field most people will not notice and simply drive right by. However, when there is a car wreck everyone looks hence rubber necking. Frank painted a realistic picture of why "Rubber Necking" with email headlines work better than anything else.

If YOU think about it...

Most people thrive off of bad news. Just watch the 10 o clock news for about 5 minutes and you can quickly see where the masses are at in their mind set...

I've noticed within the forum here lately there is so much cynicism...Maybe I've just not paid attention to it before?

Maybe it's because of the change?

Maybe I've got too much time on my hands?

Maybe it's my own pain body 'dark side' reading the negative threads?

Without getting into too much detail of the reason why people are addicted to bad news...the primary reason is what has been identified with the 'pain body' as Echart Tolle described in his book "A New Earth".

The 'pain body' is very hungry and it wants to be feed with bad news. Once I identified this within myself it has been very interesting to see my reaction to the financial arena in the US and the world. This is where my own 'pain body' tries to get its fill.

Gold is falling under $850! Bad News!
The stock market lost 139 point last night! Bad News!
Gas prices went up to $4.12! Bad News!

What's kinda strange is all that Bad News is Good News for people on the other side of the financial coin when they sell short etc...

What about all the Good News?

Woke up today to experience another glorious day...Good News!
The new Warrior Forum will now experience growth like we've never seen before because of the social features...Good News!
The sun will most likely rise tomorrow...Good News!

Cheers,
Dean

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Dana_W 16 years ago

You sure have that right about bad news. All those years that I was a police reporter...people always complained about how newspapers only focus on bad news, but do you know why that's what makes the news? Because that's what people pay attention to. In recent years newspapers started having online forums for readers. Guess which stories got the most comments on the forums. No, not the "Susie found a puppy and gave it a new home" stories. The bad news stories.

Logically, if everything is safe and normal and routine...we don't need to look. It's when something disrupts the routine that we stop and take a look to see what's going on and see how it might affect us and our loved ones.
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Jelasco 16 years ago

Originally Posted by Peter Bestel

Why did you choose the title of this thread? Because it was descriptive or because it would get people to open the post?

Peter

I think you just hit the nail on the head!

I really don't get all the whining on this. If other people are using a subject like "bad news" why do you really care? It's up to each person on the list to decide whether to read it. If it's a bad idea and they get low response, why do you care? It's not your list.

Could it be these people just heard the idea and decided to try it and see what happened? It's called testing. Is that wrong?

This is not the same thing as false subject lines like "you just won the lottery" or "notification of payment received".

Are these optin lists? If so, please don't use the word "spam." You should know better than that.
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- Dana_W 16 years ago
  
  Wow, Jelasco, as has been pointed out by many other members here...you seem to spend most of your time looking for reasons to argue with anyone who posts an opinion on here. That must be fun. Always a pleasure to hear from you.
  
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DaniMc 16 years ago

The funny thing is that the original "Bad News" thread got tons of views and replies very quickly.

Now this thread also gets lots of views and replies very quickly.

I think this demonstrates that the tactic works!

Am I the only one who felt compelled to come into these threads?

Daniel

PS - I also deleted all the emails but Franks. However, the words "Bad News" aren't the only way use this tactic as there are other ways to communicate the same idea and get the effect I would think.
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