single vs double optin conversion?

That assumption right there can potentially kill your conversions, careful there. What if they opted in their lunch break? what if they don't understand the whole "confirm to receive stuff" thing? what if they'd rather see your stuff before committing to signing up? What if they might not be interested in this product but on the next one you'd email them for in the future?

There are PLENTY of reasons as of why a potential buyer could not confirm his subscription...

I always do single optin.

It's not true that double optin isn't affecting your conversion rate for leads. There can be many reasons why people don't confirm. The more complicated you make it the less people you get.

And I disagree that with double optin you get better quality leads and less spam accusations.

The quality of leads has nothing to do with the fact they confirm (they confirm because you tell them to do that, even if some forget or are unable to), it has to do with the media you use for lead generation and the offer you make.

And as for spam accusation, when someone thinks that, maybe after 10 months, you are spamming, he will do it with single, double, triple or even tattoo optin. They just forget or aren't interested anymore. If they cannot unsubscribe, you do that for them, no sweat.

So for me the recommendation it's SINGLE optin.

Best,

Marco

I'm not sure that confirmed (double) opt in is the better option in that sort of situation. After all, if someone has paid for a product, service or subscription, then they are entitled to receive it, without jumping through hoops - even if the only hoop is a confirmation requirement, before they get it.

Personally, I use confirmed (double) opt in for the IM and closely related niches, as it affords some protection from spurious spam complaints. For the non IM niches though, as spam complaints are less, single opt in should usually be the option, as confirmed opt in could reduce sign ups.

Of course, if you are a big player in the IM niche with your own isp, servers, as well as plenty of cash and lawyers on retainer, then single opt in is definately the way to go!

Just my thoughts,

Jeff.

Earlier in the thread, Joshua mentioned that the offer itself was an important factor.

I believe that how you ask for the confirmation has something to do with confirmations. I try to never mention 'spam' in my confirmation requests; I don't want the thought entering their heads.

Instead, I try to position the process as a favor to them. After all, people mis-type their emails from time to time, right?

So I ask them to do me a favor and click the link in the automated email the system sends out, just to verify that the email got through to the right place.

I keep thinking that double optin isn't a strategy to preselect better leads.
It depends on the market and on the offer. If you do loose lead generation with high value incentives you will get more double optins but it won't mean you will get better leads.

For serious spam complaints double is a better (legal) protection but for the average complainer, it makes no difference: is someone does an optin and them complains you are spamming, it can be single or double, but he still thinks you're spamming him.
Only if you remind him he did the double optin he can feel more like a moron... is that good?

Best,

Marco

also, on the same aweber site:

Can I Disable Confirmed Opt-In? :: AWeber Knowledge Base

you can read

"A recent study by MarketingSherpa and KnowledgeStorm found that only 68% of users always enter a valid email address.

So, nearly a third of respondents knowingly enter bogus email addresses"

That would mean that if we use single we would be spamming 32% of users...

If one of those users makes a spam complaint what would happen ?

That quote is frankly bullsh!t.

Test to discover the opt-in method that gives you the highest
conversions for just now. But remember that testing won't let
you know the best option for the long-term.

There are times to use single opt-in and there are times
to use double opt-in.

It depends upon the specific situation and there's no one
rule that fits all.

Remember that single opt-in e-mails get sent from different
servers with a lower deliverability than the servers used for
double opt-in e-mails.

However, for a stable business that lasts long-term, I choose
confirmed opt-in for many of my lists (not all).

Why?

My lists are some of the biggest assets in my business and I
want to have a full audit path for those subscribers so I can
defend myself against spam complaints, etc.

That way I make money today and well into the future too.

Asset protection.

Dedicated to your success,

Shaun

Does Eben Pagan know what he's talking about when it comes
to autoresponders?

Sure.

But his comments have to be taken within context.

I know plenty of people who use double opt-in and make good
money.

Here are 3 specific reasons why this quote is dangerous if taken
as gospel and used without questioning it first...

1. Eben Pagan uses mainly self-hosted autoresponders to run
his businesses so he's not at the mercy of third-party
autoresponder service providers who can - and have - shut
down single opt-in lists and accounts for excessive spam
complaints.

So, for someone using AWeber to host their autoresponders
for example, they could blindly follow the 'single opt-in makes
more money' mantra and end up getting their account forced
into using double opt-in - or worse - terminated if they get
excessive spam complaints.

2. The fact is that single and double opt-in e-mails are sent
from different servers with different deliverability rates. The
single opt-in servers have lower deliverability rates because
they have more bounces, spam complaints and a poorer
reputation with ISPs.

So, without testing and tracking it's hard to know which is
the best option for a given list and third-party autoresponder
provider combination.

3. Absolutes rarely apply in business or life. So the 'use single
opt-in only' or the 'use double opt-in only' mantras are not
really useful across the board.

The best choice depends upon the specific situation.

For example, you may want to use single opt-in for lists built via
PPC to make the metrics work out.

Ultimately, the only way to know if single or double opt-in is best
for your particular list is to TEST IT and count the results.

And the test results from one person - even a 'guru' - cannot be
spread around as the gospel for your list and your market.

TESTING is the only answer to find the best option for you.

Period.

Dedicated to your success,

Shaun

I didn't know Eben had this strong of an opinion about double opt-in...lol! I've used single opt-in exclusively myself, and have never run into any issues. While I'm sure some people will want to see verifiable split-test results that support this statement, I'm pretty confident in my opinion that single opt-ins will ultimately be more profitable.

Paul

You can try. How successful such a defense is may depend on the nature of the email generating the spam complaint.

If you are contacting the customer about an updated version of the purchased product, a new bonus for purchasing, etc. - something directly related to the purchase/product - you may be okay.

If you hit them up with a sales offer for something different, without their explicit permission to contact via email, you just spammed them and you're at the mercy of the service provider.

That's how I see it, anyway...

Albert, your name here (pizzatherapy) is making me hungry for Hawaiian pizza with extra Canadian bacon...lol!

The only comfort for people who use double opt-in is that they are better protected against the inevitable spam complaints that they'll receive.

It's interesting that you state this spam complaint issue could be niche specific. Would you be able to share which niche(s) are getting you the highest number of spam complaints?

Paul

I want to add this:

I get almost zero complaints from subscribers on my IM niche, or my other email lists.

I think people who signed up for my pizza list, forgot that they signed up. Also rather than unsubscribe, they will report my email as spam, even though, they double opted in.

I think that IM'ers are savvy enough to know they can easily unsubscribe from a list with one click...

Maybe I need to educate my list on how to unsubscribe...

No - never ... I just like using single opt-in but had heard you can get spam complaints, so I'm very cautious (perhaps too cautious, but one never knows this!). So I err on the side of reminding people why they're getting my emails and that they can unsubscribe, etc. - not in every email, but now and again.

I'd also like to know this ...

Even with the best autoresponders, there'll inevitably be a percentage of emails that wind up in Spam, and many people don't think to check for their emails there. This is the downfall with double opt-in, and I feel that it'll result in you losing a significant number of leads over time.

Not to my knowledge, no. AWeber don't get notified every time some spam filter automatically flags your email as spam. It only counts as spam inside your AWeber account when someone actually reports you and AWeber "gets word" of it.

But if your email is going in the spam folder, you'll have to question why. Either:

(1) One of AWeber's IP addresses from which your email originated has been blacklisted in some spam database (this is rare, I think: these companies spend a lot of time/money on getting whitelisted, which makes them a little more resistant - if not impervious - to being blacklisted like "normal IPs" ... at least without a significantly higher number of complaints), or;

(2) The content inside your emails contains so many "triggers" that they're being flagged from that alone, regardless of the good standing of their source IP and/or email address (in which case you need to be looking at what you're sending, most likely, and using the "spam score" estimation tool to verify and tweak each of them better before sending or saving to your autoresponder), or;

(3) Some recipients' spam filters may be configured to be overly sensitive, in which case it won't take much at all for an email to end up in their spam folder (this is also quite rare, but if it's the case then you can be reasonably sure that recipient is having a lot of their other legitimate emails land in their spam folder, too. And this is their problem, really: you can't realistically do anything about it ... ).