Paypal just called me because I've had too many paypal disputes

16 years ago

Right now there is a negative balance in my PayPal account due to someone disputing some banners I made for him (my very first one in 5 years!!). Anyway there's really nothing you can do until PayPal makes up their decision.

However what I can advise you to do before you get to the dispute phase is to have very visible "Contact me" links, have excellent customer service, and make that link so visible that it kicks them in the face.

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secrets2010

16 years ago

Originally Posted by AFI

Right now there is a negative balance in my PayPal account due to someone disputing some banners I made for him (my very first one in 5 years!!). Anyway there's really nothing you can do until PayPal makes up their decision.

However what I can advise you to do before you get to the dispute phase is to have very visible "Contact me" links, have excellent customer service, and make that link so visible that it kicks them in the face.

Thanks for the advice, but I'm an affiliate of those products...so I don't have control over those things....

By the way, I recommend you to have always money on the paypal account...paypal doesen't like when you don't have money on the account...

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AFI

16 years ago

They'll get over it.

I've had a PayPal account since 1999 and have thousands of positive feedbacks or verifies or whatever it is.

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Andy Fletcher

16 years ago

Promoting products as an affiliate where you take the money and then rely on someone else to fulfil the order is asking for trouble.

This commission model has worked really well for myself and 1,000s of other marketers for years but now it's frankly outdated.

PayPal provide the ability for the vendor to accept the payment AND the affiliate still to get paid straight away, thus avoiding a lot of these issues.

Either start promoting products where it's the vendor's details they are seeing (and their account if a dispute happens) or at least get in the habit of contacting the vendor before you promote and establishing a working relationship with them so you can get disputes resolved quickly.

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AFI

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Andy Fletcher

Promoting products as an affiliate where you take the money and then rely on someone else to fulfil the order is asking for trouble.

This commission model has worked really well for myself and 1,000s of other marketers for years but now it's frankly outdated.

PayPal provide the ability for the vendor to accept the payment AND the affiliate still to get paid straight away, thus avoiding a lot of these issues.

Either start promoting products where it's the vendor's details they are seeing (and their account if a dispute happens) or at least get in the habit of contacting the vendor before you promote and establishing a working relationship with them so you can get disputes resolved quickly.

Very well said and very good advice. You need to take the bull by the horns and call the dropshipper (or whatever method it is) and tell them if they want to continue to work with you, they're going to have to make some changes for you.

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Rob Howard

16 years ago

Originally Posted by AFI

Very well said and very good advice. You need to take the bull by the horns and call the dropshipper (or whatever method it is) and tell them if they want to continue to work with you, they're going to have to make some changes for you.

This isn't how RAP Works.

RAP Works by paying the affiliate the full amount of the sale, divided by the percentage of the split.

So, if the commission is set at 50%, every other sale is 100% mine.

Sale #1: Vendor
Sale #2: Affiliate
Sale #3: Vendor
Sale #4: Affiliate

Now, the reason links aren't getting delivered has nothing to do with the Vendor, RAP, RAPBank, etc. and everything to do with PayPal's poor IPN.

Rap and related services (nanacast, infusionsoft, almost all networks that accept paypal payments) rely on IPN (instant payment notification)

I have noticed here lately that paypal has been REALLY slow delivering these IPN's to our software. Sometimes days.

Since the software has built in protection from scammers trying to get your product for free, it will not release the product to the customer until paypal sends the IPN.

So, as an affiliate, if you get a person who doesn't get the download link, send the vendor their information, verifying purchase and have the vendor send a link

That is the only way to do it.

Rob

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cashcow

16 years ago

I think it's nice that they called to warn you instead of just closing your account.

They actually called me the other day too, I was surprised since I have used them since they first started (when I was an ebay seller) and never once did they call me. They were inquiring about a subscription payment I made (make it every month) and wanted to know if I really wanted to pay it. I was like ... Umm.... Yes, been paying it for 6 months now...

Anyway, sound like maybe they are trying to be more in touch with their customers instead of just having a knee jerk reaction and shutting accounts down, maybe?

Lee

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secrets2010

16 years ago

Originally Posted by cashcow

I think it's nice that they called to warn you instead of just closing your account.

They actually called me the other day too, I was surprised since I have used them since they first started (when I was an ebay seller) and never once did they call me. They were inquiring about a subscription payment I made (make it every month) and wanted to know if I really wanted to pay it. I was like ... Umm.... Yes, been paying it for 6 months now...

Anyway, sound like maybe they are trying to be more in touch with their customers instead of just having a knee jerk reaction and shutting accounts down, maybe?

Lee

They just called you about a subscription payment you made? only for that?
and then some marketers say it's impossible to talk to paypal...

so I guess if I get some more paypal dispute my account might be shut down? and actually the problem is that the customers are missing the download link...as soon as i get a payment dispute I send them the download link asap...so none of these paypal disputes have been escalated...

I dont know what I would do without paypal...because I couldnt neither rapbank nor payspree...and clickbank doesent give a good epc...

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cashcow 16 years ago

Originally Posted by secrets2010

They just called you about a subscription payment you made? only for that?.

Yeah, isn't that strange?

And it's a payment I have been making for many months now. Plus I have quite a few other payments I make via subscription and then others that are just one-off's. I have no idea why they singled out that one.

Lee
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outlandishindustries

16 years ago

so I guess if I get some more paypal dispute my account might be shut down? and actually the problem is that the customers are missing the download link...as soon as i get a payment dispute I send them the download link asap...so none of these paypal disputes have been escalated...
[/QUOTE]

Have you asked the customers who have disputes open to close their disputes when you send them the download link? Maybe they are getting your product, but forgetting they have a dispute open or assuming that it closes once they get the download link. Send them a friendly email thanking them and asking them to close their dispute.

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wortell

16 years ago

Originally Posted by outlandishindustries

so I guess if I get some more paypal dispute my account might be shut down? and actually the problem is that the customers are missing the download link...as soon as i get a payment dispute I send them the download link asap...so none of these paypal disputes have been escalated...

Have you asked the customers who have disputes open to close their disputes when you send them the download link? Maybe they are getting your product, but forgetting they have a dispute open or assuming that it closes once they get the download link. Send them a friendly email thanking them and asking them to close their dispute.[/QUOTE]

great point! in fact, I've done this not even using the dispute system, but emailing them directly offline and asking them to close it... only 1 case, that I know of that they never got around to doing it (closing it that is...) after resolution came offline (outside of the dispute process), and even then it fizzled out... with a "PayPal has temporarily closed this dispute case, may (paraphrased) resurrect if they discover more info" (plainly to say... the buyer isn't pursuing/they haven't heard from them in awhile) - so it fizzles out.

But stays like a bad sore!

Neways, great point

.

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JasonParker

16 years ago

Strange... My guess is that for the RAP offers you're promoting, they have crummy customer service.

Or else the customers wouldn't have to go through the disputes (even though I've had disputes too instead of the customer contacting us directly).

That's one problem with using RAP. Often when an order is made, the system hangs and the customer's order never goes into the RAP system. It's probably PayPal's fault more than RAP though...

Maybe you just need to promote offers that have faster customer support.

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Andy Fletcher

16 years ago

Originally Posted by ccmusicman

This isn't how RAP Works.

RAP Works by paying the affiliate the full amount of the sale, divided by the percentage of the split.

So, if the commission is set at 50%, every other sale is 100% mine.

Sale #1: Vendor
Sale #2: Affiliate
Sale #3: Vendor
Sale #4: Affiliate

Now, the reason links aren't getting delivered has nothing to do with the Vendor, RAP, RAPBank, etc. and everything to do with PayPal's poor IPN.

Rap and related services (nanacast, infusionsoft, almost all networks that accept paypal payments) rely on IPN (instant payment notification)

I have noticed here lately that paypal has been REALLY slow delivering these IPN's to our software. Sometimes days.

Since the software has built in protection from scammers trying to get your product for free, it will not release the product to the customer until paypal sends the IPN.

So, as an affiliate, if you get a person who doesn't get the download link, send the vendor their information, verifying purchase and have the vendor send a link

That is the only way to do it.

Rob

Originally Posted by JasonParker

Strange... My guess is that for the RAP offers you're promoting, they have crummy customer service.

Or else the customers wouldn't have to go through the disputes (even though I've had disputes too instead of the customer contacting us directly).

That's one problem with using RAP. Often when an order is made, the system hangs and the customer's order never goes into the RAP system. It's probably PayPal's fault more than RAP though...

Maybe you just need to promote offers that have faster customer support.

These statements about it being PayPal's fault were true until a year ago but they have been providing their permissions service for a year now. Using it, it's possible to do away with these wait screens entirely by querying the details of a transaction rather than waiting for PayPal to deliver the IPN.

All the services built on the IPN are out dated and need to catch up.

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4morereferrals

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Andy Fletcher

These statements about it being PayPal's fault were true until a year ago but they have been providing their permissions service for a year now. Using it, it's possible to do away with these wait screens entirely by querying the details of a transaction rather than waiting for PayPal to deliver the IPN.

All the services built on the IPN are out dated and need to catch up.

This IPN drama is the absolute BANE [ sic ] of my IM existence!!!

Cant wait for DigiResults to solve this ... 4 of 10 sales = a tech support email about please send me my links

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Andy Fletcher

16 years ago

Originally Posted by 4morereferrals

This IPN drama is the absolute BANE [ sic ] of my IM existence!!!

Cant wait for DigiResults to solve this ... 4 of 10 sales = a tech support email about please send me my links

Thanks Steve. The Direct Check technology goes live tomorrow. Eliminating reliance on PayPal's flaky IPN system for good.

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wortell

16 years ago

Originally Posted by 4morereferrals

This IPN drama is the absolute BANE [ sic ] of my IM existence!!!

Cant wait for DigiResults to solve this ... 4 of 10 sales = a tech support email about please send me my links

Wow... I must not be making enough sales... to experience those numbers...
On the rare (i mean, RARE!) occasion I see a request like that.

Totalling over 8,500+/- (i'm sure all of you have similar stuff) in sales - in over 2 yrs 8 months - in using my IPN-based sales system on my OWN sites alone...

I've seen *possibly* a count of 1-2 (send me my download link please) per quarter, and honestly... i'm saying that only to help buffer this number with how many I used to receive before Pay*pal got their bu*tt (am i allowed to say that?) in order on their end, nearly 1.5 yrs ago.

While I'm not here to discount your words, @4morereferrals, but 4 outta 10 sales... that's not PayPal *or your IPN system*, that's just bandwidth and server issues... (not a knowitall, but server throttling on shared or even VPS hosting sites, will ALSO limit adaptive (pro-actively checking) postback checks at PayPal as well.

I'm sure if you put digiresults, rap or any other powerful sales system up to the test, it's about throttling and the quality of the PURCHASE itself (oh and the receiver).

From time to time, you get the random affiliate who's neither Premier *OR* Business accounts... (rare, but happens).

Pending Checks... typically is the bane of almost *every one* of my undelivered IPN posts... it's not that their UNdelivered, or that the sales system is arie... it's because (at least in 1/2 - 3/4 of the small amounts that I've had in those types of situations) of...

"... Well, Bill, I thought I had enough in there... I guess I'll have to wait 'til it does clear..."
"... Nuts, i changed my credit card and... "

Adaptive, is cool, but will it solve the bane of that sorts? Not really... but it does - as I previously mentioned, solve a few other cool feature advancement/innovative ways of collecting monies from the customer.

Adaptive is great, but remember, NVP has been around for a long time too - and has offered *virtually every* (with the exception of how/who the payments are made to) option that Adaptive now comes with...

Adaptive's real innovation isn't that one's system gets notified any cleaner, or quicker,... it's a slicker, streamlined, all inclusive way of handling purchases...

whereas before you had to invoke NVP methods (rather complex in nature, non-cohesive set of functions) to do the post-back and looking into account info (ie. txn info, receiver info, etc...)

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4morereferrals

16 years ago

Originally Posted by wortell

Wow... I must not be making enough sales... to experience those numbers...
On the rare (i mean, RARE!) occasion I see a request like that.

Totalling over 8,500+/- (i'm sure all of you have similar stuff) in sales - in over 2 yrs 8 months - in using my IPN-based sales system on my OWN sites alone...

I've seen *possibly* a count of 1-2 (send me my download link please) per quarter, and honestly... i'm saying that only to help buffer this number with how many I used to receive before Pay*pal got their bu*tt (am i allowed to say that?) in order on their end, nearly 1.5 yrs ago.

While I'm not here to discount your words, @4morereferrals, but 4 outta 10 sales... that's not PayPal *or your IPN system*, that's just bandwidth and server issues... (not a knowitall, but server throttling on shared or even VPS hosting sites, will ALSO limit adaptive (pro-actively checking) postback checks at PayPal as well.

I'm sure if you put digiresults, rap or any other powerful sales system up to the test, it's about throttling and the quality of the PURCHASE itself (oh and the receiver).

From time to time, you get the random affiliate who's neither Premier *OR* Business accounts... (rare, but happens).

Pending Checks... typically is the bane of almost *every one* of my undelivered IPN posts... it's not that their UNdelivered, or that the sales system is arie... it's because (at least in 1/2 - 3/4 of the small amounts that I've had in those types of situations) of...

"... Well, Bill, I thought I had enough in there... I guess I'll have to wait 'til it does clear..."
"... Nuts, i changed my credit card and... "

Adaptive, is cool, but will it solve the bane of that sorts? Not really... but it does - as I previously mentioned, solve a few other cool feature advancement/innovative ways of collecting monies from the customer.

Adaptive is great, but remember, NVP has been around for a long time too - and has offered *virtually every* (with the exception of how/who the payments are made to) option that Adaptive now comes with...

Adaptive's real innovation isn't that one's system gets notified any cleaner, or quicker,... it's a slicker, streamlined, all inclusive way of handling purchases...

whereas before you had to invoke NVP methods (rather complex in nature, non-cohesive set of functions) to do the post-back and looking into account info (ie. txn info, receiver info, etc...)

When the page sits there and says it will refresh every 60 seconds - and my clients have to email me or PM me that - theyve been waiting 2 hrs now and nothing, they didnt get the DL page... is my server timed out for 2 hrs? ... has my server at hostgator caused the issue or is Paypal notoriously slow and IPN's continuously an issue mentioned hundreds of times in RAP chats and forums?

So do we need dedi servers to run RAP? I think not.

Maybe its rare for you .. but there's plenty of chats and forum posts on it to advise me its not isolated to my hosting. Denying that the issue - isnt an issue is rather curious.

Guess we'll see what happens ...

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wortell

16 years ago

Originally Posted by 4morereferrals

When the page sits there and says it will refresh every 60 seconds - and my clients have to email me or PM me that - theyve been waiting 2 hrs now and nothing, they didnt get the DL page... is my server timed out for 2 hrs? ... has my server at hostgator caused the issue or is Paypal notoriously slow and IPN's continuously an issue mentioned hundreds of times in RAP chats and forums?

So do we need dedi servers to run RAP? I think not.

Maybe its rare for you .. but there's plenty of chats and forum posts on it to advise me its not isolated to my hosting. Denying that the issue - isnt an issue is rather curious.

Guess we'll see what happens ...

Not denying it was NOT an issue before in the least!

And, yes... this is a pontificated notion spanning dozens of well informed people.... but for the past 1-1.5 yrs, this has been a non-issue for most.

However, I will point out that with RAP - if the payment is "Pending" (for whatever reason... money being debitted slowly b/w PayPal and the credit card processor, or eCheck slowly eeking its way thru) then this too will cause a "Non-Receipt" (waiting for your payment to clear) on RAP Bank's side.

I've been replied to *many a times* when this does indeed happen (albeit ridiculously irregular for myself and most I speak with) with the following response - which accounts for a good many of those as well.

"Oh, because my payment is Pending - I cannot have the download anyways!?"

(uh, hello?!)

Also... keep in mind that Adaptive (nor any method via PayPal) will solve this issue. (unless someone can enlighten me... and i've been up that adaptive control with a fine tooth comb and though I'd not claim to be an expert at that... you'd need to talk to the likes of the 7 only Certified PayPal peeps worldwide to do that... I like to think that I do know that Adaptive will not solve this.

Adaptive will allow you to send more post-backs to the PayPal system checking (but those call backs will be in line with all the other bandwidth driven - and throttled methods).

There's no real solution to the PayPal "notification" system.... it's bottle-necked and (apparently as you've described) still amuck with potential issues.

HostGator in and of itself wouldn't be 100% of the issue... but HostGator rate limits (via throttling) requests in order to "share" the connections made for shared hosters... even their VPS boxes are shared just allocated throttling... (no overlapping of busy-ness).

So, while PayPal might be sending a signal - HostGator will not even potentially receive it... based on traffic, throttling (rate limiting, etc...).

Again, with myself being on a fully ded. srvr... been on one for nearly 2 yrs... i *WAY* over pay for it... but still on it..., I don't have these issues.

And, what would be interesting is if with Adaptive Methods (if USED on a shared hosting with the same amount of sales/traffic, etc..) that you get such a DRAMATIC improvement.

Not saying it cannot happen, but doesn't make sense to, on a shared environment.

That being said, does everyone need to go dedicated? He!#%$ no

Hopefully not!
However, will Adaptive (making even *more* calls via the servers lines) help? I'll bet it's incremental at best.

I'll bet anyone launching a fully-Adaptive process claiming such, would prepare themselves for renigging on such a statement - ** UNLESS ** on a fully dedicated server.

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Andy Fletcher

16 years ago

Originally Posted by wortell

Also... keep in mind that Adaptive (nor any method via PayPal) will solve this issue. (unless someone can enlighten me... and i've been up that adaptive control with a fine tooth comb and though I'd not claim to be an expert at that... you'd need to talk to the likes of the 7 only Certified PayPal peeps worldwide to do that... I like to think that I do know that Adaptive will not solve this.

You are correct, adaptive will not solve this problem.

Our Direct Check system is implemented using the PayPal Permissions API. This means we can query PayPal to ask about the state of a transaction rather than waiting on PayPal to tell us.

Again, with myself being on a fully ded. srvr... been on one for nearly 2 yrs... i *WAY* over pay for it... but still on it..., I don't have these issues.

And, what would be interesting is if with Adaptive Methods (if USED on a shared hosting with the same amount of sales/traffic, etc..) that you get such a DRAMATIC improvement.

Not saying it cannot happen, but doesn't make sense to, on a shared environment.

That being said, does everyone need to go dedicated? He!#%$ no

Hopefully not!
However, will Adaptive (making even *more* calls via the servers lines) help? I'll bet it's incremental at best.

I'll bet anyone launching a fully-Adaptive process claiming such, would prepare themselves for renigging on such a statement - ** UNLESS ** on a fully dedicated server.

Anyone launching a fully adaptive system that they are going to have people run on shared hosting would be mad.

However a hosted adaptive service (DigiResults.com) suffers from none of these issues.

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wortell

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Andy Fletcher

You are correct, adaptive will not solve this problem.

Our Direct Check system is implemented using the PayPal Permissions API. This means we can query PayPal to ask about the state of a transaction rather than waiting on PayPal to tell us.

Anyone launching a fully adaptive system that they are going to have people run on shared hosting would be mad.

However a hosted adaptive service (DigiResults.com) suffers from none of these issues.

Hey, Andy thanks for confirming my madness

...
And, I'm sure the case (in point) is true that Digi- or any such system (could do the job). Agreed! Keep in mind tho that it's not Adaptive that's allowing this... all along we've (PayPal community users at large) had NVP (combined with IPN) all along - to do the same.

The beauty of adaptive is the sex appeal of split (instant) on *every* purchase... not just on a rotating basis... but (as Thomas Belknapp (sp?) pointed out on the other thread) this too points to just a separate set of issues... (not coding, but ethos, managing business issues).

Thanks for chiming in....

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secrets2010 16 years ago

By the way another paypal dispute saying:

Once purchase was confirmed and completed by Paypal I was not redirected to the instant download page. Pay Spree transaction processing page continuously looped and never redirected.
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secrets2010

16 years ago

Originally Posted by JasonParker

Strange... My guess is that for the RAP offers you're promoting, they have crummy customer service.

Or else the customers wouldn't have to go through the disputes (even though I've had disputes too instead of the customer contacting us directly).

That's one problem with using RAP. Often when an order is made, the system hangs and the customer's order never goes into the RAP system. It's probably PayPal's fault more than RAP though...

Maybe you just need to promote offers that have faster customer support.

The problem is that when some customers don't get the download link they will open a paypal dispute...they wont even contact the vendor...and the last thing I want is to have paypal disputes...I really don't want my paypal account shut down...

It seems the best way to not have any more paypal disputes is not using rap anymore...

Does paysrpee have the same problems?

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4morereferrals 16 years ago

Originally Posted by secrets2010

It seems the best way to not have any more paypal disputes is not using rap anymore...

Enter DigiResults — Work Less, Sell More
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JasonParker

16 years ago

Originally Posted by secrets2010

The problem is that when some customers don't get the download link they will open a paypal dispute...they wont even contact the vendor...and the last thing I want is to have paypal disputes...I really don't want my paypal account shut down...

It seems the best way to not have any more paypal disputes is not using rap anymore...

Does paysrpee have the same problems?

I've sold thousands of units through RAP. Normally they contact the seller of the product and if the seller doesn't get back to them within a reasonable time frame, then a dispute happens. Sometimes you the occasional jerk who goes straight to PayPal.

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Andy Fletcher

16 years ago

Originally Posted by JasonParker

I've sold thousands of units through RAP. Normally they contact the seller of the product and if the seller doesn't get back to them within a reasonable time frame, then a dispute happens. Sometimes you the occasional jerk who goes straight to PayPal.

That's the problem though. They contact the person they think is the seller, and that's whoever's PayPal details they have been shown.

Affiliates shouldn't have to deal with such support requests.

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JasonParker

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Andy Fletcher

That's the problem though. They contact the person they think is the seller, and that's whoever's PayPal details they have been shown.

Affiliates shouldn't have to deal with such support requests.

Truth be told, using RAP is more like a Reseller program than an Affiliate program.

You can't get 100% instant commissions any other way besides being the actual seller.

It's up to you to decide whether you want instant commissions or not.

There's no solution for stopping a buyer from contacting a PayPal seller completely.

You can only cut it down with better customer service of the product owner.

If affiliates want to be paid NOW instead of in months from now or in a week from now with a 25% refund rate, then they may like to promote RAP products.

Everything has a positive and negative.

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Andy Fletcher

16 years ago

Originally Posted by JasonParker

Truth be told, using RAP is more like a Reseller program than an Affiliate program.

You can't get 100% instant commissions any other way besides being the actual seller.

It's up to you to decide whether you want instant commissions or not.

There's no solution for stopping a buyer from contacting a PayPal seller completely.

You can only cut it down with better customer service of the product owner.

That was true until a year ago but it's not any more. It's very possible to do a commission split at time of sale (even up to 100%) while only showing the vendor's details to the customer.

I know because that's how my affiliate network DigiResults does it.

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JasonParker

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Andy Fletcher

That was true until a year ago but it's not any more. It's very possible to do a commission split at time of sale (even up to 100%) while showing the vendor's details to the customer.

I know because that's how my affiliate network DigiResults does it.

Not sure what you mean dude.

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Andy Fletcher

16 years ago

Originally Posted by JasonParker

Not sure what you mean dude.

You can pay 100% commission to an affiliate without the customer seeing their details in the PayPal checkout.

The customer see's the vendor's details regardless of what happens to the money but the affiliate still gets their payment instantly.

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JasonParker

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Andy Fletcher

You can pay 100% commission to an affiliate without the customer seeing their details in the PayPal checkout.

The customer see's the vendor's details regardless of what happens to the money but the affiliate still gets their payment instantly.

Gotcha. That's interesting.

So when they get the PayPal Receipt in their inbox, it doesn't give details for the "affiliate" who sold it?

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Andy Fletcher 16 years ago

Originally Posted by JasonParker

Gotcha. That's interesting.

So when they get the PayPal Receipt in their inbox, it doesn't give details for the "affiliate" who sold it?

Nope. The customer only sees the vendor's details. On the checkout, in the PayPal receipt, everywhere.
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- JasonParker 16 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Andy Fletcher
  
  Nope. The customer only sees the vendor's details.
  
  Very nice. Well, that IS a great solution. Congrats.
  
  Thanks
  
  1 reply
  
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  Andy Fletcher 16 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by JasonParker
  
  Very nice. Well, that IS a great solution. Congrats.
  
  Thanks. It's been possible for a year now. I figured it was about time somebody did it
  
  Thanks
  
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  JasonParker 16 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Andy Fletcher
  
  Thanks. It's been possible for a year now. I figured it was about time somebody did it
  
  Nice. The IPN thing drives me up the friggin wall, even though our #1 focus is customer support... we can handle it, but don't like it at all.
  
  Thanks
  
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wortell

16 years ago

Originally Posted by secrets2010

The problem is that when some customers don't get the download link they will open a paypal dispute...they wont even contact the vendor...and the last thing I want is to have paypal disputes...I really don't want my paypal account shut down...

It seems the best way to not have any more paypal disputes is not using rap anymore...

Does paysrpee have the same problems?

Almost entirely, all of these issues are on PayPal's side of things...
whether you choose to use a Split-Pay (using the Adaptive Method), Chaining (using Adaptive Method), or using IPN - ... it's still dependent on good affiliates and good *receiving* business/premier accounts.

There are many "holes" still in adaptive methods... namely handling of payout/tax issues when using the Chaining Method, Split Payments - in how Refunds are handled, and a whole schlew of other issues.

Thanks

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Shannon Herod

16 years ago

Originally Posted by JasonParker

Strange... My guess is that for the RAP offers you're promoting, they have crummy customer service.

Or else the customers wouldn't have to go through the disputes (even though I've had disputes too instead of the customer contacting us directly).

That's one problem with using RAP. Often when an order is made, the system hangs and the customer's order never goes into the RAP system. It's probably PayPal's fault more than RAP though...

Maybe you just need to promote offers that have faster customer support.

A lot of the time with PayPal, when it comes to disputes, it is not about customer service.

It is simply the customer does not have the knowledge of the proper channels.

So, the customer support necessarily is not bad, it is that the way to get customer support is not clearly defined.

Then, you have the people that will just go and file a dispute before they try to contact you.

Whenever I get disputes it is usually for that reason. The customer does not use the proper channels and simply goes and disputes the payment.

So, there is nothing you can do sometimes when it comes to PayPal disputes.

You just need to deal with them in a very timely fashion and make sure you're doing the right thing when it comes to the disputes.

As long as you are doing the right thing and dealing with the disputes in a timely fashion you should be fine. Also, like the initial post said, always keep funds in your PayPal account to cover chargebacks refunds.

If you do those things you should be fine when it comes to PayPal. In my experience anyway.

Talk soon,

Soon

Thanks
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JasonParker

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Shannon Herod

A lot of the time with PayPal, when it comes to disputes, it is not about customer service.

It is simply the customer does not have the knowledge of the proper channels.

So, the customer support necessarily is not bad, it is that the way to get customer support is not clearly defined.

Then, you have the people that will just go and file a dispute before they try to contact you.

Whenever I get disputes it is usually for that reason. The customer does not use the proper channels and simply goes and disputes the payment.

So, there is nothing you can do sometimes when it comes to PayPal disputes.

You just need to deal with them in a very timely fashion and make sure you're doing the right thing when it comes to the disputes.

As long as you are doing the right thing and dealing with the disputes in a timely fashion you should be fine. Also, like the initial post said, always keep funds in your PayPal account to cover chargebacks refunds.

If you do those things you should be fine when it comes to PayPal. In my experience anyway.

Talk soon,

Soon

Yeah, that's true. That's why you have to...

-Put your contact info on your sales page.

-Put your contact info in any emails that go out.

-Put your contact info on your download page.

I've sold 550 units in RAP over the past 6 days and not one PayPal dispute (as far as I know) because I'm clear about the channel to go through.

Usually it helps to put a message that says "Need Help? Contact" instead of just "Contact."

I mean...we have a full-time customer support employee though so it might be a little different for most people.

Thanks

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Silas Hart

16 years ago

Originally Posted by secrets2010

Paypal just called me because I've had paypal disputes in the last days...customers were claiming they didn't get the products...

I'm promoting rapbank and payspree products and in the last few days I had a few paypal disputes...and it seems the customers miss the download link...(they are not my products but I've been promoting them for months and making sales and I didn't have so download problems before...)

paypal called me and told me that it wasn't good for me to have paypal disputes (what she meant exactly? that my account could be shut down forever?)...what tips do you recommend to not have so many paypal disputes...? considering that I'm an affiliate and I don't have control over the download process...

I thought that I could send myself everytime the download link to the customers to make sure they get the download link...

Also I found the paypal guy very helpful...he gave me some tips like leave money on the paypal account in case that refunds have to be made...I guess if I took all the money paypal would freeze my account...so it's good always to have money on the paypal account...

I wouldn't count on keeping your PayPal account much longer. The reason they are telling you to keep money in the account is to hopefully freeze that money for future disputes after your account is closed/locked.

I read on here recently that people were having problems with RAP not sending the download link or something.

Thanks
1 reply

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secrets2010

16 years ago

Originally Posted by FaJeeb

I wouldn't count on keeping your PayPal account much longer. The reason they are telling you to keep money in the account is to hopefully freeze that money for future disputes after your account is closed/locked.

I read on here recently that people were having problems with RAP not sending the download link or something.

I haven't read many threads about this problem with RAP...do you know if payspree face the same problem?

I haven't had so many paypal disputes actually...to freeze my account...I dont think they do it...because they know I can make them lots of mony for years to come...

Thanks
1 reply

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Silas Hart

16 years ago

Originally Posted by secrets2010

I haven't read many threads about this problem with RAP...do you know if payspree face the same problem?

I haven't had so many paypal disputes actually...to freeze my account...I dont think they do it...because they know I can make them lots of mony for years to come...

It's all automated.

Thanks

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PCRoger

16 years ago

I'm just glad they called you as opposed to other big names (which will remain anonymous for my protection) just closing your account, permanently, with no notice and no appeal.

Best,
PCRoger.

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DeborahDera

16 years ago

Originally Posted by PCRoger

I'm just glad they called you as opposed to other big names (which will remain anonymous for my protection) just closing your account, permanently, with no notice and no appeal.

Best,
PCRoger.

Agreed. I have been working hard to launch my PLR store and some other unique content offers and am always worried about how a sudden change in my account activity will affect my relationship with PayPal. I've seen so many horror stories here but I'm glad to see that PayPal is, perhaps, improving from a customer service standpoint.

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AFI

16 years ago

I just had to chime in and say that mine I talked about earlier were resolved and I have no more disputes and I got to keep the money....sorry, I'm just happy it was resolved. Carry on about you now.

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BloggerHigh

16 years ago

Paypal could be using a 'magic number' to decide if you have too many disputes. Probably a percentage of your transactions, or transaction value. However they calculate it, they hate it because disputes generally force them to use real live humans, instead of scripts.

They seem to be less nervous about it if you leave a decent amount in your account as a 'float'. Too much, of course, and you're asking for trouble.

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NerdGary

16 years ago

Autoresponders my friend... Autoresponders.

They work!

And most hosting account come with it... with cpanel.

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secrets2010

16 years ago

The problem I see with rapbank is that as an affiliate I don't know if the customer got the download link...so I get the commission and customer opens a paypal dispute claiming that didnt get the product...and I really hate to deal with paypal disputes especially when I don't have the download link...and I have to tell them please contact the vendor...

Honestly, I prefer to get paid at the end of the month and not have to deal with these paypal disputes

Thanks
1 reply

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wortell

16 years ago

Originally Posted by secrets2010

The problem I see with rapbank is that as an affiliate I don't know if the customer got the download link...so I get the commission and customer opens a paypal dispute claiming that didnt get the product...and I really hate to deal with paypal disputes especially when I don't have the download link...and I have to tell them please contact the vendor...

Honestly, I prefer to get paid at the end of the month and not have to deal with these paypal disputes

Yep, totally understand... this and this alone... (not IPN's, not download links, etc...) has been 100% of the ones leaving the instant payment community (big hitters moving from PayPal completely.)

There is a mass pay addon for RAP that forces a mass payment payout situation... and this is setup on a product by product basis within the RAP back-office (again, tho, it's an addon).

Maybe it's a situation of "what the affiliate wants" and how - versus broad-brushing all into one basket.

Cuz most don't mind the occasional dispute issue... and i myself have had as high as 5 disputes at one time... but PayPal doesn't typically mind this... they look at ratios of sales to disputes, and the *how you handle* them.

I'm sure you're handling them all well, but the preference of the affiliate is the preference of the affiliate

.

There's a reason why the scarf at Macy's is 5x the price at Target

.
(obviously no parallels to cost/pricing/fees, but the point remains, preference is the customer's choice... and affiliates are INDEED customers of the vendor/merchant)

Thanks

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WickedWally

16 years ago

What do we have here Watson?

I'm promoting rapbank and payspree products and in the last few days I had a few paypal disputes...and it seems the customers miss the download link...

If you are not responsible for the delivery of the products, why would PayPal contact you?

And correct me if I'm wrong, PayPal affiliates get paid via MassPay by the product owner.

Is I right?

I thought that I could send myself everytime the download link to the customers to make sure they get the download link...

How do you have the download link... if you are an affiliate?

Hmmm...

Have you seen this? >>> PayPal Alternative - Pay Pal Lawsuits, PayPal Complaints & Fraud

Check it. GO!

Thanks
1 reply

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plexor 16 years ago

Greetings all,
Coming out of hibernation and suddenly finding a number of sources unhappy about PayPal(r) actions, a little digging found this:

found it on PayPalsucks
called merchantinc
Was surprised to find no mention of these sources here amidst this dispute.
Some of the stories are quite horrifying.

However, I must say in my very limited experience with them over the previous years, I had no trouble. (Note "limited").

Am about to look into Digiresults about their system - however as it seems to tie to PayPal, too..............
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Paypal just called me because I've had too many paypal disputes

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