Is this considered spam?

by Wide
30 replies
A few years ago I closed down my file hosting site, which I'm planning to start up again.

At the time I closed it down it had more than 1 million registered users, which I would like to inform about the service starting up again.

They have not accept any kind of system or news updates what so ever, it was not a part of the sign-up process of that time (but will be). They only accept the Terms of Service.

Will it be okay to send them an email with the following content, or is that considered spam?:

Dear [firstname] [lastname]

We can see your a registered member of XXXXX and would like to inform you that our service is up and running 100% again.
The backend system has been upgraded and has been running smooth and stable during a long testing period.

We have added some new features a long with a new storage system. One of the new features we have added is the option to signup for a Premium Account. We would like to offer you a 7 days free premium account, you can read more about that >here<.

Remember to delete your account if your not using it anymore, it will free resources for new users. You can do this my clicking the cancel link below:
[cancelaccount]

Don't want to receive system notifications anymore?
[cancelsystem]

Don't want to receive news and updates anymore?
[cancelnews]




Best regards,


details
#considered #spam
  • Profile picture of the author Margo Tuul
    If it says in Terms that you can send them emails about updates and other notifications, then you are doing nothing wrong. If they know you or your domain...i don't think its spam. Weird is if they have never heard about you, or your site.
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    • Profile picture of the author Wide
      Originally Posted by precious007 View Post

      And not only...

      If you actually own that list as part of your site, you're free to send updates anytime you want.

      That's what I would do.

      Optimize your servers before sending that email out though
      Ye, thats what I thought and was hoping.
      The problem is, most will not remember they signed up.

      The good part is that I have first and lastname of all the signups, which should lower the amount of spam reports.

      But it will without doubt be big.

      First registrations is more than 5 years back and I have never send emails to them before.

      I will add something in my Terms that they by default will receive system updates and notifications until canceled.
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    • Profile picture of the author Globolstaff24
      Originally Posted by Margo24 View Post

      If it says in Terms that you can send them emails about updates and other notifications, then you are doing nothing wrong. If they know you or your domain...i don't think its spam. Weird is if they have never heard about you, or your site.
      Yes. That's exactly what I thought.
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  • Profile picture of the author King Shiloh
    Banned
    If you are pretty sure that they signed up and never unsubscribed from your list, it's not a spam.

    If you send it to me, it's a spam. Why? I never signed up, opted in or subscribed to your list whether in the dream or in reality.
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    • Profile picture of the author Wide
      Originally Posted by King Shiloh View Post

      If you are pretty sure that they signed up and never unsubscribed from your list, it's not a spam.

      If you send it to me, it's a spam. Why? I never signed up, opted in or subscribed to your list whether in the dream or in reality.
      Yes, but there is a difference between signing up to a website with and without checkmarks if you want update and news emails though.

      Thats what im confused about.
      But I guess it will okay to send an email as posted above.
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      • Originally Posted by Wide View Post

        Yes, but there is a difference between signing up to a website with and without checkmarks if you want update and news emails though.

        Thats what im confused about.
        But I guess it will okay to send an email as posted above.
        You're right, I'd consider it a bit on the edge but man, 1 mil people, that's worth a lot. Just imagine how quickly you could start your new site, even if just a small percentage of these people signs up again. On the other hand, a complaint would suck, but I doubt you'd get in serious legal trouble. But then again, I'm not a lawyer, blabla. What did your terms back then say specifically about sending updates/user notifications? These things don't necessarily have to be agreed on with the usual "I want to be on your newsletter" checkmark. When they signed up, they must have agreed to the terms of service, and if you had a point like this written in the TOS, you should be fine.
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        • Profile picture of the author Wide
          Originally Posted by john_m View Post

          You're right, I'd consider it a bit on the edge but man, 1 mil people, that's worth a lot. Just imagine how quickly you could start your new site, even if just a small percentage of these people signs up again. On the other hand, a complaint would suck, but I doubt you'd get in serious legal trouble. But then again, I'm not a lawyer, blabla. What did your terms back then say specifically about sending updates/user notifications? These things don't necessarily have to be agreed on with the usual "I want to be on your newsletter" checkmark. When they signed up, they must have agreed to the terms of service, and if you had a point like this written in the TOS, you should be fine.
          The old version of the website does not exist anymore, so I don't know for sure.
          I will add it in the new terms though.

          Is the checkmarks really needed? Isn't it enough to put it in the terms? ("you will receive system updates and notification emails, this can however be changed on the settings page or directly within each email").

          Seems pretty solid to me
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          • Profile picture of the author rosetrees
            Might it be worth a call to your mailing list provider or webhost to warn them first so they are prepared for possible spam complaints?

            My guess is that a large percentage of the emails will just bounce because the addresses are no longer being used.
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            • Profile picture of the author Wide
              Originally Posted by rosetrees View Post

              Might it be worth a call to your mailing list provider or webhost to warn them first so they are prepared for possible spam complaints?

              My guess is that a large percentage of the emails will just bounce because the addresses are no longer being used.
              Yes, that is what I'm thinking too.
              I don't use a mailing list provider, they are all in my mysql database.

              Will find a way to catch the bounce to filter them out in the database.
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              • Profile picture of the author BrianLG
                Originally Posted by Wide View Post

                Yes, that is what I'm thinking too.
                I don't use a mailing list provider, they are all in my mysql database.
                Will find a way to catch the bounce to filter them out in the database.
                Not a expert in this area but if you have large numbers of emails going to the same ISP's you may trigger their spam filters because of the large number of the same emails with the additional factor of high % of wrong/old address's. Of course most of your members may have you in their not spam list. I t may be worth looking at your database an see if you have large numbers going some ISP's. If so you may want to stagger and/or modify the text/subject line. Just a thought
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                • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                  A VERY large percentage of those addresses will have gone bad over that much time. With the levels of bounces you'll have, your mail will start being blocked almost immediately at any service of noticeable size. Delivering slowly will have little, if any, preventative impact on that.

                  Regardless of what was included in the original account creation process, you're going to be marked as a spam/problem source almost everywhere.


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                  • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
                    Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                    A VERY large percentage of those addresses will have gone bad over that much time. With the levels of bounces you'll have, your mail will start being blocked almost immediately at any service of noticeable size. Delivering slowly will have little, if any, preventative impact on that.

                    Regardless of what was included in the original account creation process, you're going to be marked as a spam/problem source almost everywhere.


                    Paul
                    I have to agree with Paul,
                    These people not only have not received updates for x amount of time the service you send it through will in all probability see this is a huge potential problem and could just shut you down.

                    Even though the list very well may be fine. the number of people who will no longer have that address is huge and a million people being sent to is sure fire sign of spammy content.

                    so it could cause a lot of problems. it is best to either splt the list up and send small amounts letting people know your back up or start promoting the site all over and mention if you signed up as a member previously contact me at your email at your email.com
                    It is best to be safe than sorry in a case like this I think anyhow
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  • Profile picture of the author Wide
    Originally Posted by precious007 View Post

    @Wide

    If that's a list that has been build through your website you have all the rights to send them updates (doesn't matter if it's 5 years later or 10 years later)

    You shouldn't have any legal issues if that's what you're worrying about.
    Yes, they are all signups from my own site.

    In the example above I'm offering them a 7 day free account, which will be a trial account.

    That won't be a problem neither?
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  • Profile picture of the author NerdGary
    It doesn't smell like spam to me...

    Just make sure in the email somewhere write, "this is a one-time automated message"... so you keep unsubscribes and complaints low (if you get any)

    Thanks
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    • Profile picture of the author Wide
      Originally Posted by NerdGary View Post

      It doesn't smell like spam to me...

      Just make sure in the email somewhere write, "this is a one-time automated message"... so you keep unsubscribes and complaints low (if you get any)

      Thanks
      Thanks, I will add that in the end.
      Guess it will be a good idea to contact the datacenter before sending the email.
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  • Profile picture of the author jesus72knight
    This is just fine. your site had gained reputation in the past years and i really don't think that your subscribers will forget you just like that. And besides, if you're back in action equipped with good offers, why would they consider it a spam?
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    • Profile picture of the author Wide
      Originally Posted by jesus72knight View Post

      This is just fine. your site had gained reputation in the past years and i really don't think that your subscribers will forget you just like that. And besides, if you're back in action equipped with good offers, why would they consider it a spam?
      The fact is, 90% of them have probably forgot about the site and a few might report it as spam.

      Just imagine ... lets say 1% clicking the spam button, that will result in 11.000 spam compaints.

      I don't care if some of them will unsubscribe or cancel the account, thats what can be expected. I'm more worried about the consequences from 11.000 spam complaints in the example above.

      But as posted above, it should be okay since they signed up on the site.
      Guess it wont be a problem to offer them a premium trial account neither (hope so).
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    I wouldn't consider it spam if I were a registered member of the forum at one time, as long as it was a one time message. But when you revive it, put it in the tos that members may receive an occasional message from admin.
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  • Profile picture of the author DeborahDera
    Originally Posted by Wide View Post

    A few years ago I closed down my file hosting site, which I'm planning to start up again.

    At the time I closed it down it had more than 1 million registered users, which I would like to inform about the service starting up again.

    They have not accept any kind of system or news updates what so ever, it was not a part of the sign-up process of that time (but will be). They only accept the Terms of Service.

    Will it be okay to send them an email with the following content, or is that considered spam?:
    Is the list already hosted in a database (like Aweber)? If not, will you have to add it to one? I just moved a list from Constant Contact to Aweber and Aweber forces your list to re-opt-in. They don't care if you already had the list before.

    You can customize the message they get sent to opt-in, letting them know you are starting the service up again and to opt in if they want to continue to receive messages.
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  • Profile picture of the author Slade556
    I wouldn't consider it spam if it were me but many will forget and not know who they are hearing from so I echo what someone said above about saying "This is a one time automated message" so they don't fear a ton of emails coming their way. Also, I would make an opt out button clear and easily recognizable in this first email back so you can cut down on any complaints. I've noticed that often times people think certain mail is spam only because they can't find any place to opt out of it.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      A VERY large percentage of those addresses will have gone bad over that much time. With the levels of bounces you'll have, your mail will start being blocked almost immediately at any service of noticeable size. Delivering slowly will have little, if any, preventative impact on that.

      Regardless of what was included in the original account creation process, you're going to be marked as a spam/problem source almost everywhere.


      Paul
      Wide, the thing here is that you are asking two different questions.

      Is such a message spam?

      By most definitions, no. You have an existing business relationship with those people, stale though it is. You have working unsubscribe links. You aren't hiding your address.

      Will it be considered spam?

      For a number of those who do receive it, probably, even if you remind them that they originally signed up.

      And, as Paul pointed out, even if it isn't technically 'spam', it will peg you as a problem emailer due to the large number of bounces from bad addresses.

      Trust me, you do not want to be on the major services' **** list. It's a major pain getting off those lists.

      I learned the hard way. I switched a site to a new host, and I was assigned an IP that formerly belonged to an account that got bounced for sending porn spam. I had to jump through a bunch of hoops to prove I wasn't the same outfit. Since then, I am very, very careful about my emailing practices...
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  • Profile picture of the author DogScout
    C-Spam act allows e-mails up to 18 months from the last business transaction. If this is a 5 year old list, it does not seem to be technically in compliance... check with your lawyer?
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  • Profile picture of the author sylviad
    One thing you might want to think about first involves your server/IsP. If you are sending from your own ISP you might be nailed for spamming using their service. It also depends on the capacity of your ISP account. You could overload their system. - and your ISP would not be happy and could close your account.

    If you load them into an auto responder and send from there, it shouldn't be a problem. I would suggest sending in smaller bundles, though, rather than one million at a time. That's a ton of emails.

    The other issue is whether or not they remember signing up. You should have their location identification, not just name and email. This is how you can prove that they actually signed up. Otherwise, there's no proof you didn't just add their names yourself.

    Also to consider:

    If you haven't contacted them in up to 5 years, chances are they don't remember you, will opt out, accuse you of spamming even if you aren't, and it's very likely that a huge number of them are no longer valid emails.

    In my short list of 375, I lose 2-5 every month I do a mailing.

    You might also want to do one mailing to everyone and include a link to a new auto responder where they can re-register. That way, you can clean your list and get all the relevant information you need from them. Then, you won't have to worry if they don't opt out themselves.

    I get lots of junk mail, some with unsubscribe links. I tend not to bother using them. I just mark them as junk. Part of the reason I do this is because if you do hit unsubscribe, you are in essence confirming your existence. A couple I tried to unsubscribe from took me to weird pages and in other cases I never was taken off their lists. Marking them as junk is much quicker and prevents me from getting more junk from them (cz that's what spammers do - give you a non-working unsubscribe link so they can capture your info when you click it.)

    So that's what I'd do. Get them to sign up under a new AR and build your list afresh.

    Sylvia
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  • Profile picture of the author sarahberra
    Some of those people might consider it spam if they don't remember you. It depends on how good your relationship was in the past.
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    • Profile picture of the author cnrimgr1
      I wouldn't consider it spam. Also if people liked your site they might love the fact that you are back up. If that were me I would be excited. If your domain name was a lot of direct hits (not search engine just people remembering you) than maybe do some youtube and articles featuring your site to reboost traffic.
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  • Profile picture of the author jointaldc
    Doesn't sound like spam, because they were once part of your network, so you're not presenting them with something they never wanted, or even signed up for
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  • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
    Whether what Wide proposes IS spam or not is beside the point. It does not matter.

    What matters is whether or not it might be considered spam or spammy.

    A list of a million emails, some of which are five years old, which has not been contacted in a long time, at least not since the original site went out of commission.

    A mass email sent to that list, of which a large number will likely bounce due to invalid email addresses.

    A likely significant number of spam complaints from the live addresses due to a new domain and no contact for an extended time.

    If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, most reasonable people will assume its a duck. It might not be, but that's the smart bet if stopping ducks is a good thing for you.

    [counting the number of posts before someone trots out the ol' 'you know what happens when you assume' gag...]
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  • Profile picture of the author bonn
    I have a buddy in the email marketing business who recently informed me of an epidemic in the email business -- spam filters are getting inundated with, what were actually quality email newsletters that people were once interested in... that they flag as spam just because they cant find the unsubscribe feature...

    People are working on fixing what ails you --- sry
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