How Do I Fire My Full Time VA??

39 replies
I need your help warriors, especially the ones who have let go of full time staff.

Early August I hired a full time VA via onlinejob.ph to mainly do article writing for me. Plus I wanted her to submit the articles onto my blog, and ezinearticles, plus do some forum commenting, blog commenting etc..

While I am really happy with the quality of what she writes, I've been looking over my business model, and I believe that it would be much more cost effective, and more productive to get a few different people to look after the different tasks that need to be done.

I believe she is a great article writer, but the thing is I dont need as many articles as I did, and its pointless paying her a full time wage.

So, How do I fire my VA?? What is common etiquette??

I want to do it in a nice way. To be honest I feel bad, but I guess this is business. I think she has been great, and we've built a good relationship.

I pay her every friday, so do I pay her this last time for this week and say, "thanks, but don't need you anymore" (not exactly in those words though)?? or do I give her a weeks notice??? or do I pay her a weeks wage and let her go?

Please help.
#full #time
  • Profile picture of the author Colin Palfrey
    I would definitely advise you to at least give her a little notice. Don't forget that people in the Philippines are often in a very difficult financial situation, and there is not much to fall back on there. A sudden loss of income could cause her serious problems, so I would recommend a weeks notice minimum. This is just my opinion though, and I don't know (or care) whether others would view this as necessary.

    This is precisely why the idea of hiring people to help with my websites makes me cringe. I personally do not envy the position you are in, but wish you the best of luck with it.

    Regards,
    Colin Palfrey
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  • Profile picture of the author mojo100
    At the end of the day you are running a business but it is about striking a balance - I agree with Colin - I personally would give 2 weeks’ notice (if I could afford it).

    This would keep things good between you, giving you the opportunity to use her services again if required.
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  • Profile picture of the author waken
    It's not easy to find a good "writer" with quality. Just let her know that you need a shift in business plan and would to maintain her as a writer only and discuss for a new rate.

    That's it.
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    • What waken said. Finding good writers isn't easy and you definitely don't want to piss her off. Giving her a 2 weeks notice would be very fair and hopefully give her enough time to look for another job while still doing whatever she's supposed to do for you. That way you can part as friends.

      Also, you shouldn't feel so bad about it. After all, when she signed the contract, she probably knew your work relationship wouldn't last for several decades. Sounds harsh but it's the reality, isn't it?
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Brian
    The best way is to give severance pay. I've fired before for the same reasons and it feels bad. You can lessen the hard feelings by giving severance pay. It's usually not required but it will help them get through the unemployment phase.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ruth P
    I also agree that it would be good practice to give notice. You may not have to, but I would definitely do it to give her time to find other work, and to maintain a good relationship should you want to hire her for writing again in future.
    ~Ruth
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  • Profile picture of the author bestIMtools
    Hey, just sent you a PM. I'll hire her.
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  • Profile picture of the author Toby Lewis
    If bestIMtools doesnt hire her, shoot me a PM

    That's the nicest way to go I guess - fire her and hook her up with a new employer.
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  • Profile picture of the author grimace_86
    hey all,

    Thanks for all the advice, its really much appreciated.

    I was wanting to give her notice. 1 or 2 weeks I'll have to decide on.

    BestIMtools and Toby thanks for the offer. BestIMtools I sent you a PM.

    I might throw my thoughts out about what I am thinking about doing and see what you guys think.

    Instead of having someone fulltime to write articles. I was thinking about using a service like 99centarticles to write articles as needed. I know they have a minimum of three, but that works out well. I'll use those articles to post on my blog and submit to ezinearticles.

    For forum and blog commenting, I was thinking about turning to Odesk and hiring someone on a per post/comment basis. I saw a few existing adverts with a rate of $.10 per post. To be honest I think thats a bit too cheap. I was thinking something along the lines of $0.20 per comment/post. They would have guidelines they would need to follow to ensure they're not spamming.

    There is a few other things i am going to get done, but I feel I have a grip on that. Its just the forum/blog commenting and getting the articles written by most likely 99centarticles.

    If you could let me know if my plan sound ok. If it doesn't I give you permission to give me a slap across the face and get me out of my dreamy land...lol
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    • Profile picture of the author bestIMtools
      Just responded to your PM, look forward to your response.

      Originally Posted by grimace_86 View Post

      hey all,

      Thanks for all the advice, its really much appreciated.

      I was wanting to give her notice. 1 or 2 weeks I'll have to decide on.

      BestIMtools and Toby thanks for the offer. BestIMtools I sent you a PM.

      I might throw my thoughts out about what I am thinking about doing and see what you guys think.

      Instead of having someone fulltime to write articles. I was thinking about using a service like 99centarticles to write articles as needed. I know they have a minimum of three, but that works out well. I'll use those articles to post on my blog and submit to ezinearticles.

      For forum and blog commenting, I was thinking about turning to Odesk and hiring someone on a per post/comment basis. I saw a few existing adverts with a rate of $.10 per post. To be honest I think thats a bit too cheap. I was thinking something along the lines of $0.20 per comment/post. They would have guidelines they would need to follow to ensure they're not spamming.

      There is a few other things i am going to get done, but I feel I have a grip on that. Its just the forum/blog commenting and getting the articles written by most likely 99centarticles.

      If you could let me know if my plan sound ok. If it doesn't I give you permission to give me a slap across the face and get me out of my dreamy land...lol
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  • Profile picture of the author Ivelin2008
    Don't fire her!

    If she writes quality articles have her write a good amount of them
    on different topics and use them. You can sell them as PLR packets on warrior forum,
    you can start an article writing service for others, you can use them to drive traffic to your site, you can use them as content for your site to increase search engine rankings.

    You can do a lot of things.
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  • Profile picture of the author chrisbiz
    Hi. Appreciate you starting this thread to get feedback from fellow warriors on how to deal with your dilemma firing your VA.

    First off. I am a Filipino and it truly breaks my heart to know that another Filipino will be losing a job soon but I must assume its for the betterment of your everyone.

    Before you do that I have few factors that you may want to consider:

    As what you have mentioned she is a great writer and you feel bad losing her because you know she has value to you.

    You may wanna consider this: a lot of warriors in the forum finding a hard time hiring a good writer and yet here you are finding the best way to fire her.

    Will you not be needing her services in the future? You are a marketer and you should and will always be needing content. Do you think this is the best for you? for your business? and for her?

    Few options to consider:
    You may just want to retain her and pay her, not necessarily from your own pocket. Market her services to fellow marketers. With this, you will be able to retain her, pay her, and her loyalty is still yours.

    You may just want to downgrade her status from fulltime to part time employee. Require her less hours to work for you and give her the option to work for other marketers. With this, you still retain her. For me, its a matter of keeping her with you, she is an asset.

    You may be able to find someone like her in the future once you have decided to hire a new writer, but the trust, the relationship, that you have establsihed among yourselves is priceless. You cant find it anywhere in an instant.

    If you really need to let her go. Please consider what she will feel once you fire her. I will not get tired of reiterating this, but we Filipinos are by nature loyal and hardworking. We do everything to make our employers happy and satisfied and yet she will finding her self losing her job after all the hardwork and loyalty she gave you? It even came from you that she is indeed good and doing her job very well and now she will lose her job. Would you know what she will feel about herself after you fire her? It will immensely affect her self esteem and self worth.

    BUT again, its your choice. If it is possible for you to find her a potential employer that she can turn to once you fired her. Do it. Thats the best thing that you can do for her. Give her few weeks of notice prior to the termination of her employment. Two weeks will be an enough time for her. More likely, she will work harder, will go above and beyond just to prove to you she wants to keep her job and she deserves the job. You must admit, that there is nothing wrong with her BUT for her there is. She may not understand it immediately, but hopefully she will accept it and move on.

    I feel bad for my fellow.

    But the last say will always be yours.

    Again, these are just few things that you may want to consider.

    Thank you.
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  • Profile picture of the author chrisbiz
    oh. I didnt notice that were already a lot of posts here.

    I must agree with most of you. Thanks for your consideration guys.
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  • Profile picture of the author grimace_86
    Argh.....Im now so confused. lol. I guess I asked the question though.

    After reading the comments about how hard it is to find good writers had made me think twice.

    The only major criticism I have of my VA is how long it takes her to do stuff.

    I would have thought it would take approx 1 hour to write an article. My Va is taking about 3 - 4 hours. Which means I can only give her no more then 12 articles to write a week.

    This week I've been getting her to do forum posting (5 forum posts per day on 4 forums) and 15 blog comments. And she says its taking her all day (~9 - 5pm) to do this.

    I am paying her 4,520 php per week.

    I guess Im wondering, am I expecting to much, or am I being to generous.
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    • Profile picture of the author chrisbiz
      Originally Posted by grimace_86 View Post

      Argh.....Im now so confused. lol. I guess I asked the question though.

      After reading the comments about how hard it is to find good writers had made me think twice.

      The only major criticism I have of my VA is how long it takes her to do stuff.

      I would have thought it would take approx 1 hour to write an article. My Va is taking about 3 - 4 hours. Which means I can only give her no more then 12 articles to write a week.

      This week I've been getting her to do forum posting (5 forum posts per day on 4 forums) and 15 blog comments. And she says its taking her all day (~9 - 5pm) to do this.

      I am paying her 4,520 php per week.

      I guess Im wondering, am I expecting to much, or am I being to generous.
      Thank you.

      Since youve been with her for 3 months now.

      I think you are already in the position, which you are indeed in the first place, to addresss this issue to her.

      Have you asked her why is she taking a longer time fulfilling her tasks?

      Have you had in the first place set expectations among yourselves before you hired her? or during her employment with you?

      You may really be too generous and you must demand something from her, worth what you are paying her.
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      • chrisbiz got it spot on, you must let her know what you expect!

        I know so many people that outsource work settle on the quality or the time it takes without questioning it. I always say you should try and get the most out of your staff. some people do this naturally and other's need a subtle push.
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      • Profile picture of the author grimace_86
        Originally Posted by chrisbiz View Post

        Thank you.

        Since youve been with her for 3 months now.

        I think you are already in the position, which you are indeed in the first place, to addresss this issue to her.

        Have you asked her why is she taking a longer time fulfilling her tasks?

        Have you had in the first place set expectations among yourselves before you hired her? or during her employment with you?

        You may really be too generous and you must demand something from her, worth what you are paying her.
        Thanks for your feedback.

        I have asked her and she basically said thats how long it takes. At the beginning I tried pushing her to do it quicker, but I thought "maybe im being unrealistic". I guess I had no idea how long this actually take.

        That was one of my problems was not setting clear expectations from the outset. This has been a great learning experience, one on managing people, training people and setting clear expectations.

        I will use this experience and improve next time.
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        • Profile picture of the author chrisbiz
          Originally Posted by grimace_86 View Post

          Thanks for your feedback.

          I have asked her and she basically said thats how long it takes. At the beginning I tried pushing her to do it quicker, but I thought "maybe im being unrealistic". I guess I had no idea how long this actually take.

          That was one of my problems was not setting clear expectations from the outset. This has been a great learning experience, one on managing people, training people and setting clear expectations.

          I will use this experience and improve next time.
          Its my pleasure.

          Well, good to hear that you learned something from this experience.

          What are your plans now? Have made your mind already?

          I wish you goodluck.

          Please let us know how to assist you further.

          Regards.
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          • Profile picture of the author bestIMtools
            Originally Posted by chrisbiz View Post

            Its my pleasure.

            Well, good to hear that you learned something from this experience.

            What are your plans now? Have made your mind already?

            I wish you goodluck.

            Please let us know how to assist you further.

            Regards.
            Don't worry, chrisbiz, either way she's got a job.
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            • Profile picture of the author chrisbiz
              Originally Posted by bestIMtools View Post

              Don't worry, chrisbiz, either way she's got a job.
              Thank you. Appreciate your help.
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        • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
          Originally Posted by grimace_86 View Post

          Thanks for your feedback.

          I have asked her and she basically said thats how long it takes. At the beginning I tried pushing her to do it quicker, but I thought "maybe im being unrealistic". I guess I had no idea how long this actually take.

          That was one of my problems was not setting clear expectations from the outset. This has been a great learning experience, one on managing people, training people and setting clear expectations.

          I will use this experience and improve next time.
          You say she is a good writer. It takes time to write good
          articles. Crap articles can be thrown together quickly but that's
          not what you want.

          It often takes me longer than 3 hours to write an article but you
          wouldn't get it for any price you'd consider cheap...LOL

          Tsnyder
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          • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
            @chrisbiz:

            Thanks for the on-the-ground perspective of working with you folks in the Philippines. You're describing exactly the kind of employee I'd be looking for. When the time comes, I'm thinking I'll probably look your way.

            @grimace_86:

            Good people tend to live up to, or down to, the expectations you set for them. It may be time for you to have a "come to Jesus" talk with her.

            Do not say that she isn't providing enough work, as it sounds like she'd take that as a personal failing.

            Just explain to her that in order for your business to function well, certain targets need to be met. You would prefer to work with her because you have a good relationship, she does good work, etc.

            Lay out what needs to happen (X number of articles, Y blog comments, etc.). If she can deliver that, terrific. If not, you'll have to figure out how it can be done - and the options include finding someone who can do the volume and quality of work required.

            I'll tell a little story on myself here.

            I was working for a small manufacturing company as a design engineer. Part of the job involved working with a small group of graphics people. Over time, I offered suggestions that would improve the turnaround time for their work. I was made the supervisor for the group, in addition to my regular duties.

            Being new to managing people, I proceeded to attempt to micromanage everything. Instead of helping, things got worse, and another engineer got the supervisor duties. This guy had managed a department in a hospital for several years before making a mid-life career change.

            He sat the graphics guys down, and did exactly what I outlined above...

            'Here's the work that needs to be done. Here's when it has to be done. You figure out how to get it done. Or we'll have to find some other way to get the job done. If we have to do that, we won't need you.'

            Within a couple of weeks, that group was churning out more and better work than they ever had before. And they were coming up with their own suggestions for improving their output.

            I'll admit it - I got schooled on that one.

            One last thing...

            As Kay said, you might want to try out those cheap services before you do anything you can't take back...
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    • Profile picture of the author Chris Thompson
      Originally Posted by grimace_86 View Post

      Argh.....Im now so confused. lol. I guess I asked the question though.

      After reading the comments about how hard it is to find good writers had made me think twice.

      The only major criticism I have of my VA is how long it takes her to do stuff.

      I would have thought it would take approx 1 hour to write an article. My Va is taking about 3 - 4 hours. Which means I can only give her no more then 12 articles to write a week.

      This week I've been getting her to do forum posting (5 forum posts per day on 4 forums) and 15 blog comments. And she says its taking her all day (~9 - 5pm) to do this.

      I am paying her 4,520 php per week.

      I guess Im wondering, am I expecting to much, or am I being to generous.
      I can believe that it takes MOST of the day to do that. You are asking her to post essentially 35 "things" per day.

      She has to find a forum post to reply to that she will be able to add value to. Then she has to write the reply.

      Same for the blogs - she needs to find relevant posts and publish something semi-useful.

      It should take less time obviously. What do you have her doing this task for anyway? Links? Direct Traffic via click throughs? Both? If it's about traffic then the quality matters a LOT. So yes, it is an all day job.

      If it is about links, then quality matters much less.

      She is either:

      A) Doing the job right
      B) Bored, and therefore less productive
      C) Using higher quality standards than you would like.

      This is why training matters so much.

      Oh, 4520 PHP is $460 per month. That's about right for a good writer.
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  • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
    Originally Posted by grimace_86 View Post

    I need your help warriors, especially the ones who have let go of full time staff.

    Early August I hired a full time VA via onlinejob.ph to mainly do article writing for me. Plus I wanted her to submit the articles onto my blog, and ezinearticles, plus do some forum commenting, blog commenting etc..

    While I am really happy with the quality of what she writes, I've been looking over my business model, and I believe that it would be much more cost effective, and more productive to get a few different people to look after the different tasks that need to be done.

    I believe she is a great article writer, but the thing is I dont need as many articles as I did, and its pointless paying her a full time wage.

    So, How do I fire my VA?? What is common etiquette??

    I want to do it in a nice way. To be honest I feel bad, but I guess this is business. I think she has been great, and we've built a good relationship.

    I pay her every friday, so do I pay her this last time for this week and say, "thanks, but don't need you anymore" (not exactly in those words though)?? or do I give her a weeks notice??? or do I pay her a weeks wage and let her go?

    Please help.
    Dude,

    Like a lot of others here I'll hire her too.

    If you have been happy with her it's someone I'll take her on. That way you can be free of her and she still has a job.
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  • Profile picture of the author bestIMtools
    chrisbiz,

    It really boils down to your needs at the moment. Some people like to work with one person, some people like to get the work done through several sources and not commit to a monthly/weekly fee that must be paid.

    The other thing is, what are your needs right now as a business? If you're paying for something you don't need that's just not a smart business move. We're in this to make a profit, not to overspend.

    I do understand and appreciate your insight on appreciating a good worker, that goes without saying, but all things in life go in phases.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      It also depends on promises you made when you hired her. If she expecting a long term position you should give her a couple weeks notice (during which she will still do work for you).

      You are not firing her - but eliminating the position.

      If she is doing quality work - I'd advise you try that cheap service before you let her go. It might be you want to eliminate the full time position but you might want to hire her as a part time writer and pay her per article instead.

      Would be a shame to drive off a good worker and then find the cheap service won't work as well.

      kay
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    • Profile picture of the author chrisbiz
      Originally Posted by bestIMtools View Post

      chrisbiz,

      It really boils down to your needs at the moment. Some people like to work with one person, some people like to get the work done through several sources and not commit to a monthly/weekly fee that must be paid.

      The other thing is, what are your needs right now as a business? If you're paying for something you don't need that's just not a smart business move. We're in this to make a profit, not to overspend.

      I do understand and appreciate your insight on appreciating a good worker, that goes without saying, but all things in life go in phases.
      I understand you guys where you are coming from. I REALLY DO.

      Im just trying to speak in behalf of the VA. Im kinda concern what she will feel and what she has to undergo if she will get fired in an INSTANT.

      I am in the Philippines and I know what is like to lose a job here and the hurdle finding another one.

      Philippines became one of the best outsourcing destinations because of our people. You gave us job and we'll do everything to keep it and losing it will be very hard to accept esp you've known in yourself you're doing your job well.

      In cases like this, please try to explain everything about it to your VAs. Dont leave them clueless of what had really happened and whatever reasons it may be.

      They MUST understand you. They SHOULD.

      Just show a little bit of consideration. That would do.

      Thank you.
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  • Profile picture of the author pugsy
    yes i agree, you should at least give two weeks notice.
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  • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
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  • Profile picture of the author Clyde
    Severance pay, two weeks notice.

    She should be OK.
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  • Profile picture of the author jasonmorgan
    Man up,

    It's your business and your money.

    You've stated that you don't need the VA's services anymore.

    You've also stated that while you think this person is super swell, it takes them longer than you would expect to finish tasks.

    What are your options: Terminate their employment or reduce the number of hours they work.

    It's business, it's not personal and everything else is not your problem.

    .
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Thompson
    The debate between severance, etc is sorta strange. Why don't you simply EXPLAIN to her that your business model is shifting and that you'd like to help her find a new job. Keep her on for another month and see if you can find someone who wants to hire her at the same salary.

    Is she really a good writer? I'm interested.
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  • Profile picture of the author CityTiger
    If for any reason the other offers of a job for her do not lead to anything let me know - my writer has been letting me down lately!
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    Please stop making self-promotional posts in the main discussion forums.
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  • Profile picture of the author alcarrerra
    just give her a 2-3 week notice .........
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  • Profile picture of the author DeborahDera
    Originally Posted by grimace_86 View Post

    I need your help warriors, especially the ones who have let go of full time staff.

    Early August I hired a full time VA via onlinejob.ph to mainly do article writing for me. Plus I wanted her to submit the articles onto my blog, and ezinearticles, plus do some forum commenting, blog commenting etc..

    While I am really happy with the quality of what she writes, I've been looking over my business model, and I believe that it would be much more cost effective, and more productive to get a few different people to look after the different tasks that need to be done.

    I believe she is a great article writer, but the thing is I dont need as many articles as I did, and its pointless paying her a full time wage.

    So, How do I fire my VA?? What is common etiquette??

    I want to do it in a nice way. To be honest I feel bad, but I guess this is business. I think she has been great, and we've built a good relationship.

    I pay her every friday, so do I pay her this last time for this week and say, "thanks, but don't need you anymore" (not exactly in those words though)?? or do I give her a weeks notice??? or do I pay her a weeks wage and let her go?

    Please help.
    I hate to sound like an awful person, but...

    Make sure you change the passwords to any accounts you have given her access to before you let her go. Even the best relationships can go sour when you part ways.
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  • Profile picture of the author paulie888
    It sounds like she's doing good work, but she's taking way too long to complete these tasks. Taking more than an hour (I believe you mentioned 3-4 hours above!) to complete a 500 word article is a little excessive.

    If the quality of her work is good, then you might want to push her to be a little faster and more productive. I've calculated that you're paying her about $3 per hour, so this ultimately means you're paying her at least $9 PER ARTICLE ($3 X 3 hours=$9), so if you look at it in those terms it's pretty expensive to hire her!

    I'm sure you could order good individual articles in the $6-$8 range without having to look too hard.

    Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author grimace_86
      Originally Posted by paulie888 View Post

      It sounds like she's doing good work, but she's taking way too long to complete these tasks. Taking more than an hour (I believe you mentioned 3-4 hours above!) to complete a 500 word article is a little excessive.

      If the quality of her work is good, then you might want to push her to be a little faster and more productive. I've calculated that you're paying her about $3 per hour, so this ultimately means you're paying her at least $9 PER ARTICLE ($3 X 3 hours=$9), so if you look at it in those terms it's pretty expensive to hire her!

      I'm sure you could order good individual articles in the $6-$8 range without having to look too hard.

      Paul
      Paul to be honest I agree. Its not that I am after $2 articles, I'm thinking I could get better value for money then $9. Plus the $9 buck article purchased on here would probably be even better. lol

      I've really been thinking about this last night, & I really think I need more flexibility, and Im not really at the stage right now to retain someone full time.

      I like the suggestions about making her part time etc...

      I need something at this stage where I can pick and choose like off a mcdonalds menu. eg. I only need xyz this week. Where next week i might need abc.

      Thanks all for the great feedback

      Cheers
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