What do you do with IMers who dont really know how to get where they're going?

by simba
21 replies
In the last week alone, I have had to deal with the following situations. As an article writer who has written successfully for many warriors, it leaves me frustrated and not really sure what to do:

1. Someone has a bunch of KW that you know will not draw traffic for him given his product and his niche. Actually, on digging a little, I found out that it was based on guess work - what he thinks people search for. I tried to convince him that a more scientific approach would work better, but no, please use the KW's as is. I went ahead and did as asked, but I put in the real, necessary KW in for him anyway. Oh, and I had to give tutorials on eZine basics as well.

2. I write information articles that should be sitting in eZine and they are plugged into a website. They could be drawing traffic, but because the site is on page zillion of Google, well, there goes. I ask whats up with that, give an hours free tutorial on chat, but they still dont get it.

3. Someone, a newbee comes to me, an article writer and they know NOTHING about what they should do with an article once its written. Even the term resource box needs explaining.

Well, I still do work for them, but isn't it only fair that people try and get past basics first before they get into the business? I'm tempted to start charging for tutorials!
#article writer #articles #ebook writer #imers #writer #writer for hire
  • Profile picture of the author kakaboo
    Well, it's good that you have a kind heart and want to help out the newbies..but there's probably only a few ways you can go:

    1) Just give them what they want or need and do nothing else
    2) Give them what they want and help them only when you have the time to do so
    3) Reject their offers if they don't want to listen to you

    I mean, there's really nothing much you can do if they are unwilling to take the time to find out the basics by themselves or listen to you.. right?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2825375].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Shannon Herod
      1. Do what they ask for if they are willing to pay you without knowing what the heck they're doing you can give an explanation on why they should probably do a different. If they decide to not listen to just do what they ask for.

      2. The person that is building their own real estate with the work that paid for is a smart person. Article marketing has its place but building your own property is far more lucrative in the long-term. So, just because you submit articles does not mean building a Web presence through your own property is wrong way to do business.

      3. Charge for your services to help people learn. I.e. create a product on how to successfully write articles for a living.

      Talk soon,

      Shannon Herod
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2825400].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author foxanthony
        I think it would be admirable to refuse their business with the explanation that they are wasting their money and directing them to the resources that will help them.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2825436].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          directing them to the resources that will help them
          Right - like a writer who will do the work he's paid for without trying to run the customer's business? #2 is not good advice and I'm surprised anyone would listen to that for an hour.

          If you prefer to coach people - be a coach rather than a writer.

          kay
          Signature
          Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

          I'm going to work on being less condescending
          (Condescending means to talk down to people)
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2825519].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author simba
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            Right - like a writer who will do the work he's paid for without trying to run the customer's business? #2 is not good advice and I'm surprised anyone would listen to that for an hour.

            If you prefer to coach people - be a coach rather than a writer.

            kay
            Hey,

            Its all about having a conscience for what you do and wanting to do it well enough to help people. I like to write so why should I write articles that wont be helpful? It hurts my talent and it hurts my business.
            Signature
            Your website content is the face of your business. Let someone who knows what they're doing give you that make-over.

            www.goodarticlewriter.com
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2832294].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author simba
          Originally Posted by foxanthony View Post

          I think it would be admirable to refuse their business with the explanation that they are wasting their money and directing them to the resources that will help them.

          . I will think of a way to gently let down the very worst. Can I tell you whats shameful? Its the full English speakers who have this problem. I have people from Asia and Eastern Europe who you can tell have taken some time to learn what they need, and if they need a tweak or 2 and you tell them about it, they welcome the advise. The greatest moment for me of course is when they come back in a few weeks and tell me about the traffic jumps from the articles.
          Signature
          Your website content is the face of your business. Let someone who knows what they're doing give you that make-over.

          www.goodarticlewriter.com
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2832286].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author sagemore48
          Originally Posted by foxanthony View Post

          I think it would be admirable to refuse their business with the explanation that they are wasting their money and directing them to the resources that will help them.
          the right thing at the right time~~
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2832488].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author simba
        Originally Posted by Shannon Herod View Post

        1. Do what they ask for if they are willing to pay you without knowing what the heck they're doing you can give an explanation on why they should probably do a different. If they decide to not listen to just do what they ask for.

        2. The person that is building their own real estate with the work that paid for is a smart person. Article marketing has its place but building your own property is far more lucrative in the long-term. So, just because you submit articles does not mean building a Web presence through your own property is wrong way to do business.

        3. Charge for your services to help people learn. I.e. create a product on how to successfully write articles for a living.

        Talk soon,

        Shannon Herod
        Hi Shannon,

        Smart, I love that about the product. I will make them buy it and read it and understand it before they send me work. Question though: considering there is so much out there on writing targeted articles, why dont these dear newbees check it out? Just goes to show you how people think the internet has magic money.
        Signature
        Your website content is the face of your business. Let someone who knows what they're doing give you that make-over.

        www.goodarticlewriter.com
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2832278].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author simba
      Originally Posted by kakaboo View Post

      Well, it's good that you have a kind heart and want to help out the newbies..but there's probably only a few ways you can go:

      1) Just give them what they want or need and do nothing else
      2) Give them what they want and help them only when you have the time to do so
      3) Reject their offers if they don't want to listen to you

      I mean, there's really nothing much you can do if they are unwilling to take the time to find out the basics by themselves or listen to you.. right?
      Hey Kakaboo,

      Thats my take on it at times too, but I know the value in a job well done, and knowing that articles that are well targeted and well written will help these people, I feel I should do my best. I will start to reject offers of those who dont listen. Thanks!
      Signature
      Your website content is the face of your business. Let someone who knows what they're doing give you that make-over.

      www.goodarticlewriter.com
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2832271].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author miklanderson2
    I wouldn't worry about it. They're paying you to write articles for them and may not want the additional advice on what to do with them.
    Signature

    "A bargain is something you don’t need at a price you can’t resist."
    -Franklin Jones

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2826673].message }}
  • {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2826686].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author simba
      Originally Posted by Don Schenk View Post

      So build a course for them that teaches what they need to know. Sell it to them, or include it with purchase of a group of articles from you.

      :-Don
      Again, advice from the smart Warriors seems to be leaning in this direction, and Im gonna develop something just like this. Thanks Don!
      Signature
      Your website content is the face of your business. Let someone who knows what they're doing give you that make-over.

      www.goodarticlewriter.com
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2832300].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Debbie Allen
    I think you have gotten some good advice here. You are a writer - not an Internet marketing expert or a coach. It's great for you to offer suggestions or advice but as Shannon suggested, your client may have a long term plan rather than short term. And if you want to create an additional stream of income perhaps an ebook related to this information would sell or maybe using it as a free give away would entice new clients.
    Just my opinion.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2826703].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author simba
      Originally Posted by Debbie Allen View Post

      I think you have gotten some good advice here. You are a writer - not an Internet marketing expert or a coach. It's great for you to offer suggestions or advice but as Shannon suggested, your client may have a long term plan rather than short term. And if you want to create an additional stream of income perhaps an ebook related to this information would sell or maybe using it as a free give away would entice new clients.
      Just my opinion.
      Another smart warrior. Debbie, Im not talking about the regular client - Im talking some shocking stuff! The ebook or free report is a great one.
      Signature
      Your website content is the face of your business. Let someone who knows what they're doing give you that make-over.

      www.goodarticlewriter.com
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2832304].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Slade556
    You'll feel a lot less stress when you don't take on the frustration newbies are having. They will need to get their answers somewhere of course and if you can point them in the right direction by all means help them, but I remember how frustrated I'd get when I'd show someone an entire business model that works and see them clueless. The best you can do is provide the resources for them to succeed, at that point it is up to them. Or if you're really smart, I agree with Don, package it and sell it to them.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2826712].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by simba View Post

    What do you do with IMers who dont really know how to get where they're going?
    That is such a good question.

    You know, in over 2 years here, I'm amazed, looking at this thread's title that I've never really seen this thread's equivalent before.

    I know the feeling - in spades.

    When you're providing any service to marketers, you sometimes get asked for stuff that you know isn't what they really need.

    - Articles for Clickbank products with stinking sales pages that you know can't convert the traffic;
    - Articles for silly, non-buying keywords;
    - Articles to go directly to EZA because people won't put them on their own site first;
    - Articles onto which people insist on putting their own badly written resource-box (those are sometimes the people who call it a "bio box", of course);
    - Reports that don't fit their intended market;
    - Autoresponder emails that are too few and too salesy;
    - Sales copy which includes obviously fake testimonials (I won't do that. I've even once been asked to write the testimonials with the sales copy!! ) ...

    ... and so on.

    I've always erred on the side of trying to "advise" them, when I can, telling myself that it actually is worth the effort - even just from my perspective - because doing so will increase the chances of turning them into regularly returning clients. But it isn't always easy.

    Which is why, I think, the more I do for myself and the less I do for other people, the more comfortable I am, really.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2826799].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author simba
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      That is such a good question.

      You know, in over 2 years here, I'm amazed, looking at this thread's title that I've never really seen this thread's equivalent before.

      I know the feeling - in spades.

      When you're providing any service to marketers, you sometimes get asked for stuff that you know isn't what they really need.

      - Articles for Clickbank products with stinking sales pages that you know can't convert the traffic;
      - Articles for silly, non-buying keywords;
      - Articles to go directly to EZA because people won't put them on their own site first;
      - Articles onto which people insist on putting their own badly written resource-box (those are sometimes the people who call it a "bio box", of course);
      - Reports that don't fit their intended market;
      - Autoresponder emails that are too few and too salesy;
      - Sales copy which includes obviously fake testimonials (I won't do that. I've even once been asked to write the testimonials with the sales copy!! ) ...

      ... and so on.

      I've always erred on the side of trying to "advise" them, when I can, telling myself that it actually is worth the effort - even just from my perspective - because doing so will increase the chances of turning them into regularly returning clients. But it isn't always easy.

      Which is why, I think, the more I do for myself and the less I do for other people, the more comfortable I am, really.
      Alexa, you totally get what I feel. And I hear you on that last one!
      Signature
      Your website content is the face of your business. Let someone who knows what they're doing give you that make-over.

      www.goodarticlewriter.com
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2832313].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author IMAdam
    What's that saying..you can bring a horse to water but...you know the rest.

    I'd say do what you are paid to do and create a product you can market to people that are interested in how to do proper keyword research. The people that truly want/need that info will appreciate it much more and you will have another nice income stream.
    Signature

    "Whether You Think You Can or Can't, You're Right" - Henry Ford

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2826892].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Joe Benjamin
    Originally Posted by simba View Post

    In the last week alone, I have had to deal with the following situations. As an article writer who has written successfully for many warriors, it leaves me frustrated and not really sure what to do:

    1. Someone has a bunch of KW that you know will not draw traffic for him given his product and his niche. Actually, on digging a little, I found out that it was based on guess work - what he thinks people search for. I tried to convince him that a more scientific approach would work better, but no, please use the KW's as is. I went ahead and did as asked, but I put in the real, necessary KW in for him anyway. Oh, and I had to give tutorials on eZine basics as well.

    2. I write information articles that should be sitting in eZine and they are plugged into a website. They could be drawing traffic, but because the site is on page zillion of Google, well, there goes. I ask whats up with that, give an hours free tutorial on chat, but they still dont get it.

    3. Someone, a newbee comes to me, an article writer and they know NOTHING about what they should do with an article once its written. Even the term resource box needs explaining.

    Well, I still do work for them, but isn't it only fair that people try and get past basics first before they get into the business? I'm tempted to start charging for tutorials!
    Hey Simba, it's great to see you again...it's been awhile.

    I see your article writing business has taken off -- :--}.

    I'm going to answer each one of your concerns below the best I can
    in the fastest way possible on a very REAL level:

    1. Never...and I mean NEVER question another business persons way of
    doing business. What you THINK is right or wrong for that person doesn't
    have much merit because YOU are not the one who's using your articles
    to get the results you THINK your client will get (unless you are doing
    something more than writing for others).

    It's easier to "think" you know what's best for your client, but only your
    client knows what's best for him.

    If they're campaign failed, let it. Unless he asks for your advice, refrain
    from GIVING it. It can imply you can do a better job than he can, and
    worst...you have nothing (other than writing for others) to back up your
    advice.

    If you have experience marketing, that's a little different, but I would
    still keep myself from giving advice unless asked.

    It's one of those things where all you can do is let some people learn from
    their own mistakes.

    You can force someone to go to rehab, but unless they ASK to be cleaned
    up there isn't anything you can, nor should you WANT to do.

    2. Again, you're clients should do whatever they want to do with the
    articles you write for them. Your job is to make sure they get the best
    service they can so they come back for more.

    You don't know what they're long-term goals are, so saying that you feel
    the articles they pay you to write for them is being "misused" can put off
    a lot off people -- despite good intentions.

    Also, scrap the free hourly consultation. You ARE wasting your time (less
    you have time to waste). You are not being compensated for this free
    coaching and a lot more people will take whatever advice you give them
    for granted...and what did you have to gain out of it?

    Nothing.

    If you want to get into consultation, at LEAST charge something for it.

    3. Again, not your responsibility to help to learn what to do with articles
    once written. If you feel uncomfortable writing for someone who doesn't
    know what to do with them, let that client be and charge $10 - $20 for
    information on how to write articles and send them 1 or two reports you
    recommend.

    Avoid wasting your time grooming someone to success. You are not in
    the Personal Development business.

    This advice was helpful to me and it will be the same for you. I hope you
    can implement and immediately apply this advice as fast as you can give
    it to your clients.

    The results you will get comes from speed of implementation, because it's
    solid.
    Signature
    **How I FLIPPED $80 into $690 Pure Profit With ONE EASY Method...2 to 3x Per Week...Only 30 Minutes Per Day (and how YOU can COPY my RESULTS, too!) **CLICK HERE FOR VERIFIED VIDEO PROOF**
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2830171].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author simba
      Originally Posted by WhoIsBenjamin View Post

      Hey Simba, it's great to see you again...it's been awhile.

      I see your article writing business has taken off -- :--}.

      I'm going to answer each one of your concerns below the best I can
      in the fastest way possible on a very REAL level:

      1. Never...and I mean NEVER question another business persons way of
      doing business. What you THINK is right or wrong for that person doesn't
      have much merit because YOU are not the one who's using your articles
      to get the results you THINK your client will get (unless you are doing
      something more than writing for others).

      It's easier to "think" you know what's best for your client, but only your
      client knows what's best for him.

      If they're campaign failed, let it. Unless he asks for your advice, refrain
      from GIVING it. It can imply you can do a better job than he can, and
      worst...you have nothing (other than writing for others) to back up your
      advice.

      If you have experience marketing, that's a little different, but I would
      still keep myself from giving advice unless asked.

      It's one of those things where all you can do is let some people learn from
      their own mistakes.

      You can force someone to go to rehab, but unless they ASK to be cleaned
      up there isn't anything you can, nor should you WANT to do.

      2. Again, you're clients should do whatever they want to do with the
      articles you write for them. Your job is to make sure they get the best
      service they can so they come back for more.

      You don't know what they're long-term goals are, so saying that you feel
      the articles they pay you to write for them is being "misused" can put off
      a lot off people -- despite good intentions.

      Also, scrap the free hourly consultation. You ARE wasting your time (less
      you have time to waste). You are not being compensated for this free
      coaching and a lot more people will take whatever advice you give them
      for granted...and what did you have to gain out of it?

      Nothing.

      If you want to get into consultation, at LEAST charge something for it.

      3. Again, not your responsibility to help to learn what to do with articles
      once written. If you feel uncomfortable writing for someone who doesn't
      know what to do with them, let that client be and charge $10 - $20 for
      information on how to write articles and send them 1 or two reports you
      recommend.

      Avoid wasting your time grooming someone to success. You are not in
      the Personal Development business.

      This advice was helpful to me and it will be the same for you. I hope you
      can implement and immediately apply this advice as fast as you can give
      it to your clients.

      The results you will get comes from speed of implementation, because it's
      solid.
      Hey,

      Nice to eSee you again and thanks for your advice.
      Signature
      Your website content is the face of your business. Let someone who knows what they're doing give you that make-over.

      www.goodarticlewriter.com
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2832331].message }}
  • Yep, it's pretty easy to tell the difference between a client who has some inclination of what they're doing, or at least some kind of half-decent plan, and a client who is just stumbling around in the dark, grasping at straws. There is a "please help me" vibe to their queries and they have way too much enthusiasm about what you can do for them, as if SEO content is the missing piece they've been looking for.

    I typically turn these clients away--some of them I even recommend the Warrior Forum to. Most of them have been ripped off by a couple people already, in different ways, but don't seem to be learning their lesson. I've given advice to them before, but all it takes is looking at one thread on this forum where someone gives away a gold nugget to see what a complete newb does in that situation--they will take as much as they get and suddenly you're giving free coaching.

    I'd much rather work with professional clients who I know are going to profit off of my work and keep coming back.

    I do offer some consulting services, but I only offer them to clients I think can benefit--I'm real picky about this. If I think they have no idea what they are doing, I tell them that I only do marketing or conversion consultations for businesses that are already making a substantial amount of money because it's much easier and less expensive to help a profiting business in this regard than to take someone who is completely new from idea to profiting website (and that's true).

    I then tell them that I can do the content for them but I want to be sure they don't have any misconceptions about what that's going to do for their site because it's just one small piece to the puzzle.

    Don't get me wrong, I can and do offer suggestions to my clients, but there's just no helping someone who hasn't got a clue what they are doing, and if they aren't willing to pay BIG BUCKS for how much advice they really need, it's really to much to take on for free.

    I know marketing teams who charge a $45K starting fee to build people hands-off websites as investment packages--why in the world would you get yourself into a situation where you were doing it for free? Going above and beyond for a client is good business strategy. So is handing them tips that help them grow their business.

    Hand-holding is not...
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2832454].message }}

Trending Topics