What's up with all the shady clickbank products lately?

I don't understand, what's new?

For years, most of IM products on CB have been like this, hyped crap!

A. Bary

This is my impression.

I know there are some really good ones, but I strongly suspect they're exceptions.

Only for some people.

A lot of those "high gravity" products have dreadfully low sales numbers, I think. Many are really not the "best-sellers" they appear to be.

They do get promoted a lot in joint ventures by "friends" who have lists, though.

Their conversion rates can be appalling, and they'll still make some sales just because they have promotional facilities available that other products of other vendors may not have.

Well, it's a red flag to varying extents for different people. That's not just a Clickbank phenomenon, though: there are WSO's here offering an ebook for $17 from which you can "make over $1,000 per day, every day", you know? I'm just saying ...

The ultimate irony is that the proportion of potential customers who are themselves already Clickbank affiliates, who will buy it through their own affiliate-link if they want it, is higher than it is in almost any other niche (obviously), so it's pretty difficult to get paid all your commissions, as an affiliate, anyway.

Not a niche for indulging in, really: more a niche for "laying down and avoiding".

To some of us.

There are exceptions, though. I admit I actually promote one product in that niche, myself. I don't expect to get rich from it at all - but it's just a brilliant product that I'm enthusiastic to promote where I can.

I agree there are more blind offers... I don't know why anyone would buy something and have no idea what it is, but at the end of the day, we are adults. Just have to make better decisions.

More like $37 front end... With 5 upsells. I hate that ****.

People don't realize that there is no magic button. These sales pages and the so called "push-button results" are just too tempting for most people to pass up.

I'll admit I was like this for a long time. The idea of easy money is just so compelling and these guys do a great job of writing their sales page. People will always want a magic button, which means these products will always sell incredibly well.

I don't think those products are necessarily bad, it's just that the hype involved with it misleads you. However, if someone puts down as a title "Start earning nothing for the next few months and slowly build up your capital after a year, but don't quit your day job because that's a bad idea!" it probably wouldn't move a lot of product, although that's pretty realistic.

Clickbank?

Who looks at Clickbank any more?

I have to agree... lot's of crap, but it's always been there (and is here to stay a while still).

The problem is that people think that the Internet will let them get rich *without* working for it. That is the wrong attitude.

You *can* escape the classic 9 to 5 job and drudgery but you'll still have to put in the hours and probably even more skilled labour into it (at least to start) so while you might get a little more perceived freedom, it's not easy.

People want to buy into the dream of "investing" a little bit of cash into a crap ebook that teaches you some sort of magic money making "system" and fool themselves into feeling like they're a little closer to their goal... whatever that may be.

There are a lot of wolves out there just waiting for those sheep to visit THEIR websites.

My advice, learn to ignore it.

(laughing)...I guess you're another one...well, here goes:

If people like you aren't complaining about the price being unbelievably
low, you complain about it being valued "too high". You, as well as so
many other so-called marketers ARE what we call hypocrites because
you swear you are "better" than all the products "you've ever or have
never seen".

You'll talk about it for weeks, wasting YOUR own time while the DOERS
are sharing what THEY have to offer and making a profit. And you are
doing what exactly?

I guess you could call MY product a rip off because the salespage isn't
to YOUR standards -- but would I really care about what YOU think? No.

Because I am making money taking action and helping those who DO
buy my products. What are YOU doing to "save the world from all these
people selling their products?"

I hope you don't take this as an "attack", but as a product owner it's no
wonder big time marketers HATE coming here because they're chastized
by their own kind of people...

yes, you're RIGHT. There ARE scams out there, but you clearly have a
bigger chip on your shoulder than someone who is scamming people. It
appears your criteria of what is good would rule out the majority of the
products you seem to despise -- and if you had the guts to create your
own YOU would find flaws in your own products as well.

Generally, people ARE good and DO make an effort to give good value. I
don't have the budget of Frank Kern or John Reese to put together a live
seminar on DVD -- yet -- but I'm not going to WAIT to do it because I'm
going to share what I can give, and I make money doing it.

What about you?

You asked a few questions, so I figured I'll ask a few of my own.

Because that crap sells. People want to believe that the crap works because they want to believe that there is a quick and easy way to make cash. There will always be a market for crap, especially if it promises dreams that are too good to be true.

I have been trying to put together an e-course that gives all of the information found in the hyped crap for free. The only thing that you have to pay for is the actual tools and assets such as domain, hosting, autoresponder and the like..only the essentials...not information that you can find for free.

Speaking of crap...

what are YOU willing to do about it? Instead of wasting your time complaining
about it, what are YOU doing to make your mark and leave an impression on
other peoples lives by showing them how you make money (if any)?

Are you going to step out and expose yourself to people like you who will also
call your product crap even if you know you gave it all you could?

Are YOU going to risk putting yourself on the line giving your BEST so others
like you can come and put your product in the crap catagory?

Could you share with us the perfect product you created to go head-to-head
with all these crap products you don't like?

These real questions you should ask yourself. You don't have to answer to me
or anyone else here. But answer them to yourself.

Soory. I've been drinking...

Lately, it's become somewhat of a trend to use blind sales copy on CB with the $37 IM products. This is a really annoying trend that I hope will go away, and I'm sure it will once it has run its course and conversions start to drop.

I won't be surprised if some other annoying trend takes its place then. This is a cyclical thing that repeats itself over time, and of course we all know that the newbies are the intended victims here.

Paul

Those type of offers have always been there, it's just the quality of the presentation that has improved, with the sales copy, the video and the mention of software, and don't forget the product owner makes thousands of dollars with it...and they are giving it to you for only $37 maybe even $27...if you're really lucky you can try it for $1

Lately? I've seen products like that since the beginning of time (internet). There have always been scams and rip-offs. CB doesn't really care because they make money from every commission. Same store with amazon and their market of ebooks that is over-flooded with rehashed trash.

The problem is people are looking for a magic pill and as long as there are people on earth other people are going to try to sell the magic pill.

The reason these products taut what they are not is because they can not be sold for what they are.

It is hard to sell a turd in the toilet bowl. But If I can sell you on the fact that it is not something else with out revealing the reAlity of the product conversions go up.

But even after the sale the refund rates on these products have to be atrocious.

10 cents worth:

You can sell any product even if it's pure crap..it's all down to marketing...

Plus, the big bonus for the big boys is simply this: There are thousands of new people trying to make money on line every day..

But, not to go off topic..there are some good products on CB you just need to sift through them all...and what if a really great product hits the market..would you not promote it because the gravity is low?

For me it's a rule to get the product first before trying to promote it..

if your new and reading this: Make this a golden rule...

search google : warrior forum " product name" 9 out of 10 times you will get an honest review of the product though, there is a hard core of CB whingers...

It's all part of the game

Since when is a sales page supposed to show you exactly how the product works? If every sales page explained (in detail) exactly "what" and "how" the product worked... Nobody would need to buy the product!

Best,
Shane

What John said.

There is nothing new under the sun guys.

If I were trying to build up a responsive list, you betcha! If I were making a million dollars a month and could build up my list to double that, yer darn' tootin' I'd send out a $37 offer.

Why do that instead of giving something away? Because the sad truth is that people rarely value that which is given to them free and thus won't use it, but they will place a value on something that costs them real dollars, and thus will be more likely to utilize the product.

Another advantage? It separates the freebie seekers from the buyers. Personally, I much prefer a list composed of buyers. But that's just me.

Wow.... This is very interesting stuff for a newbie.

Oh John, Alexa, and Steven.

If it weren't for guys (and girls), like you, I really think this place would just turn into a giant bitch/whine fest.

Thanks for injecting some common sense in this thread.

Rob

Thanks Ex Life...I feel the same way. There are those of us who would really like to help others and provide a service in a way that is beneficial...It's emmensly helpful to hear all of the feedback on this thread 'cause as a relative newbie, I'm so sick of the outrageous hype that I see in all the emails I receive....but after 25 years of sales and business experience, it's also understandable why it exists...it works....but I think in the end there are 2 types of paths we can follow: 1 is to do to provide a real benefit for others and the money will take care of itself or 2 to do it soley for the money....I imagine the 2nd pays better, but I won't sleep as well.....Thanks to all of you for the various insight and perspectives

You right The Exciting Life
But like member say its not so new
(BTW - sorry about my english)
Internet marketers writing sales pages sowing salt in the wounds and build products that will lead anyone anywhere just $ to thers pockets
Think about it, if we could make money with their products we would not have to buy anymore
Majority of the internet marketers usually do not really aimed at a real contribution to the consumer
It's like the best marketing method (like sharing promotion, Consolidate events, affiliates, JVs) become the goal and not the tool for FAKE Marketing Guru
How many times have we heard</SPAN> how to write a landing page headline?
How many times have we heard</SPAN></SPAN> "the money is in the list"?
How many times have we heard</SPAN></SPAN> that we should take action?</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN>
How many times have we heard</SPAN> that we need to belive?</SPAN>
How many times have we heard</SPAN></SPAN>that we don’t need xxxx, and don’t need xxxx, and xxxx
Right! We don’t need nothing special! except manipulating
lets me ask you this..... how many times the guru setup a 5 question survey related to thers niche and send to there email list as a survey to know what they realy need?
how much time the guru setup a costumers niche event for free, for realy help ther costumers? ( and to be honest, the biggest guru in the AM niche dont realy know somthing that a newbie with 1 year expiriance dont know) the Difference is the gurus is deep in the game they know the right people and they put lot of $ to buy other guru to go along with them from the start
why the guru never talk about the costumers REAL value</SPAN></SPAN>
as a marketers we have a responsible....What separates the real marketer then the other marketers came to steal from the costumers
is the desire to support the consumers
This will give consumers what they need and not what they want
we know what the best for our costumers cuz we know the products, and this is unlimited value
and i learn this stuff personaly from a man who still have 35 years the same costumers + new everyday
The method of "come Buy My ebook and I will teach you how to make money" then you read the ebook and then you see you need to write an ebook that says "Come Buy My ebook and I will teach you how to make money" is a scandal
It's a shame that these people call themselves marketers
There is no difference between stealing from a person or cause him to give you rape a manipulative manner.</SPAN>
There is no stronge enugh man that can beat market psychology. and selling the illusion is ruined another little piece of hope left for a person who wants to develop himself as an independent

Affiliates need to start promoting real value, and belive me ots more money
You know why? Cuz real businees with real costumers open the door to do businees with you costumers and so on....but it bulk email list (click the bottom and get$) you dont have real realationship....

Good luck to you guys

One man's junk is another man's treasure, Clickbank just mirrors what's out there in the retail sector ie/ it's a shop for browsing products that you choose to buy or promote in this case, here in the UK we have a large number of 'pound land' shops that have sprung up offering all items for a pound or less. Some of the products I would say is below par but it's in demand and it sells in large numbers. Will I promote a product that I know is just a re-branding of another YES if I believe it will sell, I'm in the business to make money and if the buyer is unhappy with their purchase they can always get a refund. Why are IM products sold at $37, $47, $67 etc? that's because it's the sweet spot for the buyer, the perceived point of getting something which is value for money, as said before free or very low prices doesn't always cut it, it doesn't mean its too good to be true it's just market forces in action. Of course there are bad apples but these get weeded out pretty quickly, I think Clickbank is a useful place to do business including the IM section but the choice, as always, is yours.

I don't think it's a new trend...but yes, marketers of today tend to hype. It's unethical but they don't seem to care as long as it sells. A salespage has to be eye popping or very few will buy...but again, it doesn't need to be this hypey. However, there are a lot of quality products too that sells on Clickbank. If you are a buyer, check out what people are saying on WF or imreportcard to check if it's worth it...

But yes...you are right OP, it's unethical...but can we do something about it? No. Be smart.

"You Will Never Go Broke Underestimating the Intelligence of the American Public." - - P.T. Barnum

A lot of the stuff sold out there IS junk. There is no doubt about that. There is also some very, very good stuff on CB. But the guys selling that "rehashed dribble" aren't imbeciles. They have often done tons of market research and split testing of their sales pages.

If you're trying to sell a $37 "make money online" product and your target audience is comprised of MIT professors teaching relativistic kinematics to grad students with I.Q.s of 160 and above--good luck!

As the guru-types know, you can make more money selling to desperate noobs gullible enough to buy into their hype. They are desperate buyers and often not smart enough to tell hype from fact. And there are hordes of them out there!

This Internet marketing thing is not a gentleman's game. There are oceans of money out there. The majority of that money does not flow to the "nicest" guys, the most friendly marketers, the best looking or necessarily the smartest. It flows to those willing to push the envelope, to market outside of what most of us would consider out of our comfort zones.

I have a few friends who I would classify as big guys. They never provide value in their emails. Some hit their lists 2-3 times a day. Most have never developed an earth shattering product. But because they are willing to do what people are criticizing here--they have huge lists, all the traditional accoutrements of wealth, and the lifestyles that most people only dream of.

I'm not defending the merchants of sleaze out there. I'm just wondering if most of the guru bashers wouldn't opt to peddle the same trash with the same techniques if they could knock down 500k a year or more. Just wondering.

OOps I forgot to add the golden finds on click bank on geared towards the home grown how-to hobby niche stuff. The non flash e-book cover, the simple but non flash no promises copy - well those are the types of CB products that have been converting well for me and when I have bought them myself they've been really jam packed with a lot of info people can use. You find that with hobbies though - people are actually prepared to 'work' at them not because they'll get rich quick but because they love their hobby and want to learn more.

But heck you really have to dig for those golden goodies on CB.

Yes.

Imagine that I could teach you to make a web site in two hours that earns $100 a month in advertising revenue.

If you make just one of those every weekday, your monthly income will go up by $500 a week, every week. Make two, and it will go up by $1,000 a week.

And at the end of a year, working only four hours a day, you'll have a monthly income of $52,000.

See how the numbers game works? Everyone in the IM niche plays it.

Of course, if you know anything at all about human nature, you know you're not going to do this. Among other things, an eight hour work day produces roughly three hours of productive work, so this "four hours of work" is really a ten hour day.

And doing the same exact thing twice a day, five days a week, for an entire year? That's obscenely boring. You'll never do it.

What you will do, in all likelihood, is a half-arsed job of making a couple of sites the day you get the product. And if you followed the directions, they'll each make about $50 a month, because you did the right stuff... you just didn't do a very good job of it.

So you'll have about $100 a month in your pocket thanks to my $37 product, and you'll know that if you had worked a little harder on those sites you would have had more. You'll also know that if you had kept making them, you would have had more.

And you'll know that if you simply sat down and nosed up to the grindstone for that whole four hours, every day, all week, and done a better job - the math does add up.

So next month, when I email you an offer for another product that's $67 and works even better, you'll think "hey, I made $100 with his $37 product, and this $67 product makes it a total of $104 so it's like getting both products for $4." And you'll probably even have the check from the ad provider, if I time my email right.

Then, if you use that product to make another $100 a month, you're making $200 a month with my stuff. You're $196 in profit. So when I send you my $97 a month membership offer, you think "hey, I made that much off his first product, and then I made it again off his second, so if I buy this I'll still make $103 in profit every month PLUS it will teach me to make even more."

And for about four months, you'll pay $97 a month, but you won't do much of anything. You'll just sit there looking for another magic bullet. And in three months, I'll offer you a $197 product that looks like a magic bullet, and you'll probably buy it.

So after six months, I'll have pulled $37 + $67 + ($97 X 4 = $388) + $197 = $689 out of your pocket. And you will have made $1100 in profit from what you learned there.

Which means if I can get a thousand people to do that every year, I'll make $689,000 and every single one of those thousand people will have not only gotten their money's worth... but made a profit. Granted, that profit is under $70 a month, but profit is profit.

And out of those thousand people, about three will actually make a success of themselves. Those will become my long-term testimonials. Meanwhile, a lot of other people will give me testimonials of plain old hype and puffery based on being excited over something new, and a bunch more will report isolated short-term successes that they think will go on forever.

And when you think about it... $689,000 a year is over $55,000 a month.

I gave you that for free. And you know it's true, too. You know this is what people do, and you know this is how people think, and the math all adds up.

But you're not going to do it.

Even if you try, all you're probably going to do is produce a $37 product and a $67 product, then sell them in sequence in consecutive months. And you'll say "damn, I really am getting good conversions on this, and if I didn't suck at it this could be a reliable long-term income."

Because you won't have the membership site, and you won't be making the eighty-odd sales a month you need for a thousand annually, and you won't even keep doing it for more than a couple months. So you'll make a few thousand short-term bucks, and then you'll wander off looking for another magic bullet.

There is not one single lie or misrepresentation anywhere in this. It is not immoral, unethical, or illegal. The process actually does what it promises to do.

So how is it shady?

Sure, it might leave a bad taste in your mouth, because it basically says "MAKE $50,000 A MONTH if you do what you're told except you won't and you'll probably make less than $500 by the time you quit" - which is technically true, but you know the whole damn time that people see the first part and don't bother reading the rest.

But whose fault is that?

I've released products that say "don't do this or Bad Things will happen!" in BIG BOLD PRINT and then gotten email that says "I did this and Bad Things happened!"

I'm always tempted to tell them that now they need to get into the fish tank and sing. After all, it's not like they'll do it, and then when they send me emails whinging about something else I can just ask "Did you get into the fish tank and sing?"

After all, I did tell them to get into the fish tank and sing. And someone said "mattress" to Mister Lambert, twice.

I find Cbank products very difficult to sell. Some of them are just complete trash yet Clickbank put them on anyway.