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How do I respond to this paypal dispute?

by secrets2010
80 replies
Paypal dispute:

The buyer has filed a claim stating this transaction was made without the account holder's knowledge or consent. Please click Resolve Claim Now to view your options to resolve this issue and how to provide relevant information will help in PayPal's investigation. We must receive your response by 7 calendar days from case creation in order to include your input in our investigation.


Well I cannot do anything about it...I don't know if the buyer's account was hacked...and I'm not the one who authorize the payment...

What should I do?
#dispute #paypal #respond
  • Profile picture of the author Supernatural_fan
    well, the only thing you can do is to proceed like they said. go to resolve claim now and tell your story; paypal will look into it and will decide along with the buyer's credit card bank if you are right or not; stuff like these do happen; if you know you are not to blame and for that reason, you're convinced you should watch this whole thing passively, don't. you need to tell your story so that they can make the right decision. it's too bad that people have to pay for the silliness of others that get their account stolen, but we can't really do anything about it, just make sure it doesn't happen to us
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    • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
      To save your valuable time and unnecessary hassle - issue
      the refund immediately and move on.

      It's an unfortunate part of this business that some people
      will claim they didn't authorize the charge.

      Move on.

      Focus on serving the prospects and customers who DO want
      you to have money in exchange for the value you deliver.

      Alternatively, waste a lot of time and effort trying to counter
      the claim and 'win' - but the likelihood is that you'll lose the
      claim via PayPal anyway as they tend to favor the buyer.

      Seriously though, refund and move on.

      Dedicated to your success,

      Shaun
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      • Profile picture of the author secrets2010
        Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

        To save your valuable time and unnecessary hassle - issue
        the refund immediately and move on.

        It's an unfortunate part of this business that some people
        will claim they didn't authorize the charge.

        Move on.

        Focus on serving the prospects and customers who DO want
        you to have money in exchange for the value you deliver.

        Alternatively, waste a lot of time and effort trying to counter
        the claim and 'win' - but the likelihood is that you'll lose the
        claim via PayPal anyway as they tend to favor the buyer.

        Seriously though, refund and move on.

        Dedicated to your success,

        Shaun
        I don't think is the best option...

        If I just refund immediately and move on paypal will think that I'm trying to scam people? and worst the customer might do this to other vendors if he sees he can get the products for free....
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by secrets2010 View Post

          I don't think is the best option...

          If I just refund immediately and move on paypal will think that I'm trying to scam people? and worst the customer might do this to other vendors if he sees he can get the products for free....
          It has nothing to do with you scamming anyone. The buyer is saying that some unknown hacker got into his account and bought your product. I know it's BS, you know it's BS but Paypal will refund them. Period. Just refund it and be done with it.
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          • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
            Actually, they don't refund ALL of those, but they do most of them if they're digital products. I've been told by people that if you have rock-solid proof of delivery to that person's IP that you can beat it but I can't remember what system they were using for delivery. I do know that the transaction logs from e-junkie will not be taken as proof.

            If you don't have proof of delivery, you will lose no matter what. It looks better for you as a vendor to just refund and move on. PayPal will not think of you as a scammer by doing so.

            Tina
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            • Profile picture of the author secrets2010
              Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises View Post

              Actually, they don't refund ALL of those, but they do most of them if they're digital products. I've been told by people that if you have rock-solid proof of delivery to that person's IP that you can beat it but I can't remember what system they were using for delivery. I do know that the transaction logs from e-junkie will not be taken as proof.

              If you don't have proof of delivery, you will lose no matter what. It looks better for you as a vendor to just refund and move on. PayPal will not think of you as a scammer by doing so.

              Tina

              rock-solid proof of delivery?...

              customer is not complaining that the product wasn't delivered...he's complaining that he didnt authorize the transaction...
              so in this case rock-solid proof of delivery doesent play any role...(in my opinion)


              p.s

              and maybe I should just refund...but I should add a note saying that I didnt authorize transaction..it was paypal...

              but if I refund he might tell his friends how easy it is to get free products...
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              • Profile picture of the author XtremXpert
                Originally Posted by secrets2010 View Post

                rock-solid proof of delivery?...

                customer is not complaining that the product wasn't delivered...he's complaining that he didnt authorize the transaction...
                so in this case rock-solid proof of delivery doesent play any role...(in my opinion)
                You're right, in that case it doesn't matter as the account's owner didn't made the transaction so he is not interested in that product even if it goes to his address.

                That thing is useful sometimes. I got scammed yesterday with a transaction of 1050$, I paid these for two websites but the seller didn't even own them. Today I filed a PayPal claim as I didn't authorized the payment and sent the seller an email telling him about it. I also told him that I'll file a claim at the bank and after half an hour I got my money back, he issued a refund. I guess he knew that I will get the money back anyway.
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              • Profile picture of the author Terri Tutten
                Part of doing business online is that you will issue refunds from time to time. IMO, it's much better to just issue the refund and move forward, because trying to fight it will just waste your valuable time.

                Spend your time on good customers and building your business, not little things like this.

                Terri
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                • Profile picture of the author mcmahanusa
                  As a buyer of a lot (too many) of products through PayPal, I have on two separate occasions been billed for something I truly did not order. PayPal promptly issued refunds, but here's the funny part: both companies were very legitimate companies, with probably very good products (just not products that I would ever use or need), and I don't feel that they originated the problem. I would love to know the truth of the matter, but never will.
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                  • Profile picture of the author secrets2010
                    Originally Posted by mcmahanusa View Post

                    As a buyer of a lot (too many) of products through PayPal, I have on two separate occasions been billed for something I truly did not order. PayPal promptly issued refunds, but here's the funny part: both companies were very legitimate companies, with probably very good products (just not products that I would ever use or need), and I don't feel that they originated the problem. I would love to know the truth of the matter, but never will.
                    Probably someone login in your paypal account not? not sure if it's easy to find out who has login without your permission...
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                    • Profile picture of the author halfpoint
                      If you think they're scamming you just provide PayPal with as much information as possible, like the IP they purchased from and downloaded the product from, the date/times etc.

                      After a few of these happening when people were clearly trying to scam me I took the attitude of Red from Shawshank Redemption when he was trying to get paroled of "I just don't give a **** anymore" and basically told PayPal that I can't be bothered giving them the information about it because they always rule in favour of the scammer and they actually ruled in favour of me that time and let me keep the money.

                      Basically, if you have information about their IP they downloaded/bought from and it's easily accessible just let PayPal know all of the details. Otherwise, just refund and move on. It's not worth worrying about most of the time.
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                • Profile picture of the author donhx
                  Originally Posted by Terri Tutten View Post

                  Part of doing business online is that you will issue refunds from time to time. IMO, it's much better to just issue the refund and move forward, because trying to fight it will just waste your valuable time.

                  Spend your time on good customers and building your business, not little things like this.

                  Terri
                  I have been in business many years, and I agree totally. There is no point in agonizing over this sort of thing. Refunds (for whatever reason) are a part of business and a person needs to accept that.

                  Also, keep in mind that PayPal is in business to make as much money as possible at the lowest risk. It is in their best interest to refund and do it without spending staff time doing some kind of investigation. The fact that you may lose out is incidental to their business plan.

                  My view is that it is best to hit the refund button quickly. There are no complaints from anyone when that happens.
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              • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
                Originally Posted by secrets2010 View Post

                rock-solid proof of delivery?...

                customer is not complaining that the product wasn't delivered...he's complaining that he didnt authorize the transaction...
                so in this case rock-solid proof of delivery doesent play any role...(in my opinion)
                Of course it plays a role...PayPal knows what IP the person is using and address, etc. That's all recorded on their end. If your proof matches what they have on record, they will know that person is nothing but a thief. Like I said earlier, though, it's hard to prove as they only take certain things for proof and I can't remember the system off the top of my head. It's one of the major ones like DLG, though.

                Tina
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                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises View Post

                  Of course it plays a role...PayPal knows what IP the person is using and address, etc. That's all recorded on their end. If your proof matches what they have on record, they will know that person is nothing but a thief. Like I said earlier, though, it's hard to prove as they only take certain things for proof and I can't remember the system off the top of my head. It's one of the major ones like DLG, though.

                  Tina
                  I use DLGuard and have provided them with proof, with the IP address and every time they have ignored the evidence and refunded when the shyster claimed unauthorized transaction. I just put the customer on the DLGuard ban list and refund them now. They only get away with it once.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by secrets2010 View Post

          I don't think is the best option...

          If I just refund immediately and move on paypal will think that I'm trying to scam people? and worst the customer might do this to other vendors if he sees he can get the products for free....
          Paypal does NOT allow charging other people's accounts! They said they did NOT authorize the charge! So it is CLEAR that you were NOT involved in a scam.

          If they said you didn't provide what they bought, etc... THAT would be claiming you were scamming.

          There are three possibilities...

          1. Someone hacked paypal, and charged. It is paypal's fault!
          2. Someone hacked THEIR account. It is THEIR fault, or paypal's.
          3. SOMEHOW someone has their account number there, and it is THEIR fault.

          But OK, you can say you WANT the money and paypal may just close the account.

          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
            Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

            There are three possibilities...

            1. Someone hacked paypal, and charged. It is paypal's fault!
            2. Someone hacked THEIR account. It is THEIR fault, or paypal's.
            3. SOMEHOW someone has their account number there, and it is THEIR fault.
            There are 4. They lied.
            But OK, you can say you WANT the money and paypal may just close the account.
            Not for following the procedure...
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      • Profile picture of the author djemerald
        I agree that you need to just move on. You might want to consider a way to block that person from getting future products from you. Or maybe not, it might be an honest mistake.
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      • Profile picture of the author Ridgway
        Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

        To save your valuable time and unnecessary hassle - issue
        the refund immediately and move on.

        It's an unfortunate part of this business that some people
        will claim they didn't authorize the charge.

        Move on.

        Focus on serving the prospects and customers who DO want
        you to have money in exchange for the value you deliver.

        Alternatively, waste a lot of time and effort trying to counter
        the claim and 'win' - but the likelihood is that you'll lose the
        claim via PayPal anyway as they tend to favor the buyer.

        Seriously though, refund and move on.

        Dedicated to your success,

        Shaun
        Mega Dittos. Life is too short, and the longer you're in this business, and the quicker you learn to just let it go and move on, the better.

        Crap like this used to eat me up. No longer. Too much positive in the world and too much good I can do for my self and my business.
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      • Profile picture of the author Gerald Arno
        Banned
        Seriously though, refund and move on.
        That's the same thing as saying that you don't report the thief who steals your products from the store, especially if you have clear evidence. Yes, we don't have clear evidence but it's possible that we're confronted with a theft.

        Alternatively, waste a lot of time and effort trying to counter
        the claim and 'win' - but the likelihood is that you'll lose the
        claim via PayPal anyway as they tend to favor the buyer.
        PayPal doesn't favor the buyer, but the compliance of their terms of service.

        Not really. In the past 2.5 years I've only lost only one PayPal dispute due to the same reason as the OP. In my instance, the buyer simple went ahead and filled in the dispute through his credit card company.

        You cannot let people get away with this and support internet crime. Some people will speak the truth and some won't. That's the truth.

        Seriously, think about it. Would anyone hack a PayPal account and buy a low priced internet marketing product? Probably not.

        If you're giving up every claim without reason, you are leaving a lot of money on the table. In some (rather most) cases, the person really bought your product and is just too lazy and scared to communicate with you.

        In this case, it's not much of a hassle to fight since you only need to provide information once.

        If you're giving this up right away, you're not doing yourself a favor, plus supporting internet crime in a decent majority of instances. It's your right to fight for your money since this person may have bought your product/service.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by GeraldGigerl View Post

          Seriously, think about it. Would anyone hack a PayPal account and buy a low priced internet marketing product? Probably not.
          Actually, a news program did a show on this. People OFTEN buy small things over the internet using stolen cards. WHY?

          1. The thiefs try the card to make sure it works.
          2. Some use it for short scams.
          3. Of course, the final buyer may feel at ease and do so. WHY NOT? You can never have REAL proof they did anything with maildrops, proxies, etc... One company, that I spend a veritable fortune at, after YEARS of good/fast service, gave me BAD service!

          WHY? I CALLED THEM TO ASK! They instituted a new policy to slow down transactions where the billing and shipping address were different. WHY? Well, I kind of ended up asking them THAT obvious question ALSO! It was to limit/prevent the type of orders often done with stolen cards! WHY would they alienate their customers and spend all that money? I mean MAYBE they had problems!?!?!? Everytime I go into a new store, they do a double take on my points. so I guess I am one of their biggest customers. At least I was.

          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author Myles Sinclair
            This thread is two year old! I'm sure the OP had resolved his dispute by now! Lol
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

        [LEFT]To save your valuable time and unnecessary hassle - issue
        the refund immediately and move on.

        It's an unfortunate part of this business that some people
        will claim they didn't authorize the charge.

        Move on.
        "ID theft" is *****HUGE*****! My credit cards were once stolen, and the criminals went all around the county and ran up $12,000 dollars! One guy offered via email to sell me stolen cards. I checked out his site. Among other things, he had info that, used by someone like me, could make the chances of hitting a valid credit card number near 100%!!! You could EVEN come close to finding the right zip code. Of course, they sold credit cards for $20-$80 bucks. AGAIN, HUGE business!

        I had a customer that was asked by authorize.net to have someone improve their credit card system. Some idiot was using it to test out credit card numbers. A few people charged my card illegitimately.

        I have gotten LOTS of phishing emails! I have gotten at least 4 calls that had an interesting gimmick to get peoples usernames and passwords. An old classmate once created a system to get login info for people at a respected state college, and even became the admin of their system, without their permission of course.

        SO, for ANYONE to assume that such a claim is BOGUS, is kind of dumb.

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Margo Tuul
    It can be also someone who asks refunds every day. There's nothing you can do really. What did you sell. Was it a physical product or digital? If physical, then he/she needs to send this item back first. If digital, you really can't argue here.

    You can ask, who made this payment. And if it was his/her family member etc. Then you can simply say to paypal, that this family member can pay this money back.

    Or, you can keep your good reputation and refund, no questions asked.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    You have absolutely no choice. Just refund it. Paypal will if you don't and it looks better if you do it. Paypal always refunds when the buyer claims unauthorized transaction, whether they are liars or not.
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    • Profile picture of the author secrets2010
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      You have absolutely no choice. Just refund it. Paypal will if you don't and it looks better if you do it. Paypal always refunds when the buyer claims unauthorized transaction, whether they are liars or not.
      Well on my paypal account says:

      "A PayPal Fraud Specialist reviews the claim to determine whether the transaction(s) in question represent unauthorized activity. If the investigation results in a finding that unauthorized activity occurred, the victim will immediately be issued a credit for the full amount of the transaction(s). If the PayPal Fraud Specialists are unable to validate the unauthorized activity, the claimant will be notified of the findings via email"

      step: 4

      A PayPal Fraud Specialist reviews the information submitted by the receiving party to determine whether the transaction is qualified for SPP coverage. If the receiving party meets SPP requirements, they will not be held liable for the unauthorized transaction(s). If they do not meet SPP requirements, the funds they received from unauthorized activity will be recovered from their account


      and then paypal offers these options:

      How would you like to resolve this issue?


      - I have shipped the item and I can provide proof that the item was shipped to the address on the Transaction Details page.

      -I have not shipped the item and I will refund the payment.

      I have refunded the payment for this transaction.


      but any of these options adress the problem...
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by secrets2010 View Post

        Well on my paypal account says:

        "A PayPal Fraud Specialist reviews the claim to determine whether the transaction(s) in question represent unauthorized activity. If the investigation results in a finding that unauthorized activity occurred, the victim will immediately be issued a credit for the full amount of the transaction(s). If the PayPal Fraud Specialists are unable to validate the unauthorized activity, the claimant will be notified of the findings via email"
        It doesn't matter what it says on Paypal. Fact is, they refund ALL unauthorized transaction disputes. That is a fact.
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        • Profile picture of the author blalock61
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          It doesn't matter what it says on Paypal. Fact is, they refund ALL unauthorized transaction disputes. That is a fact.
          That is not a fact. I have fought these types of disputes before and have won some of them.
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        • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          It doesn't matter what it says on Paypal. Fact is, they refund ALL unauthorized transaction disputes. That is a fact.
          No they dont.

          I have won a few.

          If you have the IP from the download, you can provide it and PayPal can see if it matches the IP geo of normal logins.

          Shaun,

          How is it a waste of time? It takes 2 minutes to provide the data.

          -g
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          • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
            Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

            Shaun,

            How is it a waste of time? It takes 2 minutes to provide the data.

            -g
            It's not really about the time it takes to provide evidence
            to counter the claim of an unauthorized transaction -that's
            minor.

            It's the emotional drain it can have on you when the dispute
            is in progress.

            In the early days I used to counteract these type of
            disputes - but 9 out of 10 proved totally futile and I
            ended up losing the dispute. And I'd be cheesed off
            in between and with the end result.

            By refunding the dispute right away I'm in more control
            and just move on and focus on building my business.

            It's a choice.

            I just let it go and find the people who do want to do
            business with me.

            Dedicated to your success,

            Shaun
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        • Profile picture of the author Johnny Slater
          That is not a fact. That is opinion and speculation.

          I have never lost but one unauthorized transaction disupte and I have had several of them in the last 4 years.

          If you do proper IP tracking, if you show your product can only be accessed behind a secure member area, and you can show that the person disupting the charge uses the same IP address as the person who logged into your member area then you win the dispute.

          PayPal will side with the buyer only when the seller can not show actual proof of the buyer actually having access to the product. If you are using proper product protection and doing proper user tracking then you have all the proof you need to show PayPal that the charge was not unauthorized and the disupte is nothing more than a way to get a digital product for free.


          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          Fact is, they refund ALL unauthorized transaction disputes. That is a fact.
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by Johnny Slater View Post

            That is not a fact. That is opinion and speculation.

            I have never lost but one unauthorized transaction disupte and I have had several of them in the last 4 years.

            If you do proper IP tracking, if you show your product can only be accessed behind a secure member area, and you can show that the person disupting the charge uses the same IP address as the person who logged into your member area then you win the dispute.

            PayPal will side with the buyer only when the seller can not show actual proof of the buyer actually having access to the product. If you are using proper product protection and doing proper user tracking then you have all the proof you need to show PayPal that the charge was not unauthorized and the disupte is nothing more than a way to get a digital product for free.
            You were LUCKY then! You DON'T have the resources to "do proper IP tracking". IF you can PROVE you sent login details ONLY to the email address listed AND it is the same on the paypal account, and can prove that is the ONLY way to download, and you prove the downloaded it, then MAYBE that is proof, but HOW do you prove that?

            Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author Johnny Slater
              Thats easy as pie. Have a decent membership solution instead of using PayPal to download page approach. When you use a dedicated system that tracks everything then you have everything you need.

              This is why using simple download pages only and using free membership resources don't offer any protection. It's the old addage of you get what you pay for. Low level solutions do not offer the same level of tracking and protection that a decent membership solution offers.

              Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

              You were LUCKY then! You DON'T have the resources to "do proper IP tracking". IF you can PROVE you sent login details ONLY to the email address listed AND it is the same on the paypal account, and can prove that is the ONLY way to download, and you prove the downloaded it, then MAYBE that is proof, but HOW do you prove that?

              Steve
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              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                Originally Posted by Johnny Slater View Post

                Thats easy as pie. Have a decent membership solution instead of using PayPal to download page approach. When you use a dedicated system that tracks everything then you have everything you need.

                This is why using simple download pages only and using free membership resources don't offer any protection. It's the old addage of you get what you pay for. Low level solutions do not offer the same level of tracking and protection that a decent membership solution offers.
                The FACTs are:

                1. IP by itself means effectively NOTHING!
                2. IP and TIME mean NOTHING unless you can prove a pattern or get a legal subpoena.
                3. MEMBERSHIP means NOTHING if they select user and password, or they are displayed!

                MEMBERSHIP ****USE****, with email of the generated password to an account identified as the payee's, is DIFFERENT, because the person must look at, and respond to, the email. If another lies, THEY won't have access and the recipient likely won't access it.
                STILL, how do you PROVE that to a third party?

                Steve
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                • Profile picture of the author Johnny Slater
                  Steve,

                  We are going to have to agree to disagree because the fact is that I win every single dispute I fight, the only one I have ever lost was before I had the system in place that I currently use.

                  I know what has worked for me for years, I know what has worked for others for years because I have talked to a lot of people who have done exactly what I have done and they never lose disputes either.

                  You can argue imaginary points all you want, but I know that I win these disputes every time because I provide PayPal with enough proof that they can clearly see that the account holder did indeed not only make the purchase but did in fact log into my protected members area.

                  No one said you have to agree with it, but there is no way you can disprove a single thing I have said either.

                  Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                  The FACTs are:

                  1. IP by itself means effectively NOTHING!
                  2. IP and TIME mean NOTHING unless you can prove a pattern or get a legal subpoena.
                  3. MEMBERSHIP means NOTHING if they select user and password, or they are displayed!

                  MEMBERSHIP ****USE****, with email of the generated password to an account identified as the payee's, is DIFFERENT, because the person must look at, and respond to, the email. If another lies, THEY won't have access and the recipient likely won't access it.
                  STILL, how do you PROVE that to a third party?

                  Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author FirstSocialApps
        Originally Posted by secrets2010 View Post

        but any of these options adress the problem...
        Sounds like your not asking for advise on what you should do, but just trying to figure out some way you can keep this persons money. Its doubtful you will be able to. Id just give them a refund.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tim_Carter
      This is absolutely correct. No question about it. I have been doing this a long time.

      They are claiming credit card fraud so Paypal will close it in their favor. If you don't believe it come back in 7 days and post here.

      Now if it was a digital product and they claim non receipt the SELLER will always win. All you have to do is tell Paypal it is a digital product and they close in the sellers favor. Everyone remember that. It is a fact.

      Not the case here so you are hooped. Just refund it.


      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      You have absolutely no choice. Just refund it. Paypal will if you don't and it looks better if you do it. Paypal always refunds when the buyer claims unauthorized transaction, whether they are liars or not.
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    • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      You have absolutely no choice. Just refund it. Paypal will if you don't and it looks better if you do it. Paypal always refunds when the buyer claims unauthorized transaction, whether they are liars or not.
      Not true and very bad advice...

      paypal will not refund this if you answer the dispute, if you ignore it they will

      and evrytime you agree to refund or ignore these disputes will eventually mean paypal will penalise the vendor by raising their fees.

      Not answering with these disputes will cost you money
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      • Profile picture of the author secrets2010
        Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

        Not true and very bad advice...

        paypal will not refund this if you answer the dispute, if you ignore it they will

        and evrytime you agree to refund or ignore these disputes will eventually mean paypal will penalise the vendor by raising their fees.

        Not answering with these disputes will cost you money
        What should I answer then when I didn't do any ip tracking...I don't have anything to say about the dispute...I didnt authorize the dispute and I don't know if the paypal account was hacked or whatever happened..
        as I said I thought paypal is doing ip tracking and I thougt that they can investigate the issue without my help...
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

        Not true and very bad advice...

        paypal will not refund this if you answer the dispute, if you ignore it they will

        and evrytime you agree to refund or ignore these disputes will eventually mean paypal will penalise the vendor by raising their fees.

        Not answering with these disputes will cost you money
        I have answered every "unauthorized transaction" dispute with DLGuard proof of downloading the product plus their IP address.

        In every case, they have refunded all unauthorized transaction disputes filed. That is my experience. If anyone else's is different, fine, but that's the case with my account.
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        • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          I have answered every "unauthorized transaction" dispute with DLGuard proof of downloading the product plus their IP address.

          In every case, they have refunded all unauthorized transaction disputes filed. That is my experience. If anyone else's is different, fine, but that's the case with my account.
          Hmm

          Unless paypal europe has different rules to palpay US then i dont see why you would lose those

          When i give proof of download they usually come back within a week and tell me that they ivestigated and can find no proof of unathorised transaction and release the funds

          To the op are you saying this is an affiliate payment made to you?

          maybe a 100% instant payment
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        • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          I have answered every "unauthorized transaction" dispute with DLGuard proof of downloading the product plus their IP address.

          In every case, they have refunded all unauthorized transaction disputes filed. That is my experience. If anyone else's is different, fine, but that's the case with my account.
          I'm based in the UK and have used DLGuard screenshots
          to prove conclusively that "someone" has accessed my
          members area and downloaded the products. I can even
          tell them how many times they've downloaded the product
          and even what the person's IP address is.

          However...

          In the vast majority of cases, PayPal has favoured the
          buyer who filed the dispute - in my experience anyways.

          How is it possible to prove that someone has not had their
          PayPal account used without their permission - like they
          claim?

          Dedicated to your success,

          Shaun

          P.S. I do not have any membership software to sell so I
          don't have a vested interest in recommending that way
          as a potential solution.
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

            I'm based in the UK and have used DLGuard screenshots
            to prove conclusively that "someone" has accessed my
            members area and downloaded the products. I can even
            tell them how many times they've downloaded the product
            and even what the person's IP address is.

            However...

            In the vast majority of cases, PayPal has favoured the
            buyer who filed the dispute - in my experience anyways.

            How is it possible to prove that someone has not had their
            PayPal account used without their permission - like they
            claim?

            Dedicated to your success,

            Shaun

            P.S. I do not have any membership software to sell so I
            don't have a vested interest in recommending that way
            as a potential solution.

            Yeah ... what Paypal responds is to say that the "victim" was hacked, even if hacked from their own computer .... yeah of course, they were.

            On every occasion, I have also emailed the assmonkey with the "hacked" paypal account and only once did they respond back.

            In this case, someone bought and downloaded 5 of my sites. Where they made the mistake was after each download, they immediately filed the unauthorized transaction dispute. I saw the sale and the dispute coming in simultaneously and immediately banned them via DLGuard, where even with an allegedly hacked paypal account, they were able to continue to purchase my sites. They made about 5 more attempts ... all banned and did not complete.

            I emailed him and he swore he knew nothing about nothing. Didn't make any purchases. He just happened to be there immediately to file the disputes. Do I believe it? It's possible, but I don't believe it. If a Paypal acct is hacked, shouldn't it be frozen until passwords are changed?
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          • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
            Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

            I'm based in the UK and have used DLGuard screenshots
            to prove conclusively that "someone" has accessed my
            members area and downloaded the products. I can even
            tell them how many times they've downloaded the product
            and even what the person's IP address is.

            However...

            In the vast majority of cases, PayPal has favoured the
            buyer who filed the dispute - in my experience anyways.

            How is it possible to prove that someone has not had their
            PayPal account used without their permission - like they
            claim?

            Dedicated to your success,

            Shaun

            P.S. I do not have any membership software to sell so I
            don't have a vested interest in recommending that way
            as a potential solution.
            Hmmm

            Maybe its because i can give more than the IP,

            We record the number of times they logged in and the dates and times in LFM

            Usually they login multiple times which shows they have accessed everything, and i didnt say i win all unauthorised disputes. just 90% of them

            But most of them, paypal does their own investigation and then lets me know if they found any evidnece of unathorised acticvity, if they find none then i get the fund added back into my account

            My point being though if your paypal account turns over the threshold for discounted fees, not fighting the disputes can mean they put you back onto the highest fee setting

            which is why we always answer them instead of just refunding
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  • Profile picture of the author Curt7
    It's happened to me a couple of times. It's nothing you did, so don't worry about it. Let Paypal resolve it. They will refund it. It's either real, or the buyer is a scammer. If the buyer is doing it often, it will catch up to him/her. Most likely, they will get their account banned.
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  • Profile picture of the author LetsGoViral
    Originally Posted by secrets2010 View Post

    Paypal dispute:

    The buyer has filed a claim stating this transaction was made without the account holder's knowledge or consent. Please click Resolve Claim Now to view your options to resolve this issue and how to provide relevant information will help in PayPal's investigation. We must receive your response by 7 calendar days from case creation in order to include your input in our investigation.


    Well I cannot do anything about it...I don't know if the buyer's account was hacked...and I'm not the one who authorize the payment...

    What should I do?
    I've had these in the past. There is not much you can do about it if it's an online service really. It kind of sucks, but that's life.
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  • Profile picture of the author jazzboy90
    In some cases, you can leave it and PP will decide if it was unauthorized or not. Since you have no tracking number for your digital item, you can't say you shipped the item. But leave it open and see what happens. I had 2 cases where I just left it. Then PP decided it was a legitimate transactions and cleared the fund for me.

    Jazzy
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
    I almost always beat these when they come up because I do IP tracking.

    I also require the people to give me their physical address.

    So here is what happens:

    1. They provide me with a physical address and I track their IP.

    2. Most people don't know how to do IP masking - so for most people, their IP address is the same as the address that they give me.

    3. When that happens, I give paypal all the info - the tracking and their address. When they line up, paypal provides that information to the banks and most of the time, I'm covered.

    I have actually won many of these disputes. It doesn't take but 2 seconds to go into my reporting, take a screen shot and send to paypal.

    Then I leave it as is and let paypal make the decision.

    If I have other evidence (like emails - which I have before) I submit that too.

    What is funny about all this is if the person would actually ASK me for a refund, legitely, I would totally give it.

    So, if you have tracked the IP and got their physical address, and it lines up, then you have a case.

    If not, then you are kinda screwed.

    Rob
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    • Profile picture of the author halmo
      Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

      I almost always beat these when they come up because I do IP tracking.

      I also require the people to give me their physical address.

      So here is what happens:

      1. They provide me with a physical address and I track their IP.

      2. Most people don't know how to do IP masking - so for most people, their IP address is the same as the address that they give me.

      3. When that happens, I give paypal all the info - the tracking and their address. When they line up, paypal provides that information to the banks and most of the time, I'm covered.

      I have actually won many of these disputes. It doesn't take but 2 seconds to go into my reporting, take a screen shot and send to paypal.

      Then I leave it as is and let paypal make the decision.

      If I have other evidence (like emails - which I have before) I submit that too.

      What is funny about all this is if the person would actually ASK me for a refund, legitely, I would totally give it.

      So, if you have tracked the IP and got their physical address, and it lines up, then you have a case.

      If not, then you are kinda screwed.

      Rob
      ccmusicman, would you mind telling what service / product you use for IP tracking? Is this a system that's on your server, or through PayPal, or ... ?

      Your answer will be much appreciated.
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  • Profile picture of the author Anonymous Affiliate
    Save yourself headaches: refund and move on. Some customers are just better not having.
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    • Profile picture of the author Supernatural_fan
      Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

      Save yourself headaches: refund and move on. Some customers are just better not having.
      i don't think refunding is the answer; after all, we don't know the amount of money that he supposely owes to the buyer; this is a serious matter and one that requests some battling against; such situations may come up again, and I believe any PayPal user has to have some experience with that, not just refund to save himself the headaches; for me, the refunding in itself is a headache
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  • Profile picture of the author hovirag
    I had the "pleasure" of the digital product seller wins part: The seller had money back guarantee on his website and when I contacted him about it - as his promised software was far from the description, he simply disappeared. Then I filed at paypal - no reply.
    Paypal's decision was of course in favour of the thief seller who promises something that he doesn't deliver and then disappears.

    Interestingly enough in this thread the seller never ever mentioned what he sold.... why I wonder?
    How many buyers have been cheated with this loophole?
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    • Profile picture of the author Supernatural_fan
      Originally Posted by hovirag View Post

      I had the "pleasure" of the digital product seller wins part: The seller had money back guarantee on his website and when I contacted him about it - as his promised software was far from the description, he simply disappeared. Then I filed at paypal - no reply.
      Paypal's decision was of course in favour of the thief seller who promises something that he doesn't deliver and then disappears.

      Interestingly enough in this thread the seller never ever mentioned what he sold.... why I wonder?
      How many buyers have been cheated with this loophole?

      with all this discussion, paypal seems to lose some of our confidence in it...i myself thought at first that it was the best, now i'm not so sure after reading this, plus having my own issues with paypal...should we actually look towards other online payment services? got a customer survey from them today, and my answers wee discouraging as to my satisfaction with the way they handle stuff
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    • Profile picture of the author Tim_Carter
      Paypal doesn't get involved with you liking what you bought. You received the item so in their eyes there is nothing to dispute. It is now between you and the seller.

      Reputable sellers don't have much to worry about as they want their customers to be happy and become repeat buyers.


      Originally Posted by hovirag View Post

      I had the "pleasure" of the digital product seller wins part: The seller had money back guarantee on his website and when I contacted him about it - as his promised software was far from the description, he simply disappeared. Then I filed at paypal - no reply.
      Paypal's decision was of course in favour of the thief seller who promises something that he doesn't deliver and then disappears.

      Interestingly enough in this thread the seller never ever mentioned what he sold.... why I wonder?
      How many buyers have been cheated with this loophole?
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  • Profile picture of the author TheDebtEliminator
    Fighting the refund issue, is a waste of time.

    It is better to keep your good reputation, and use that valuable time to drive some new targeted traffic to your money site.

    This will relieve the stress, and allow you to concentrate on what is important.

    All the best ... Ron
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    • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
      Originally Posted by TheDebtEliminator View Post

      Fighting the refund issue, is a waste of time.

      It is better to keep your good reputation, and use that valuable time to drive some new targeted traffic to your money site.

      This will relieve the stress, and allow you to concentrate on what is important.

      All the best ... Ron
      Well said.

      This is accurate thinking.

      Just accept these type of disputes as an unfortunate fact
      of doing business online.

      Refund and move on.

      Use your time and energies more productively serving the
      people who DO want to give you their money.

      Sure - you may be in the right to dispute the refund but
      it's such a waste of your business time.

      And OP - how much was the refund request for?

      Dedicated to your success,

      Shaun
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  • Profile picture of the author moneymarker
    Use escrow next time! I had a dispute with a buyer. I presented all proofs and Paypal disputed the chargebacks in my behalf. The buyer still got his money back because in the end, it wasn't up to Paypal but the buyer's bank who issued his credit card. It's in Paypal's TOS.
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  • Profile picture of the author Emailrevealer
    There is nothing you can do. all the buyer has to do is say the magic words "My account was hacked" and the product or service is magically free for them.

    Paypaal is not a real merchant paymemt processing service. If you are a merchant get a real merchant aaccount to accept real credit cards.


    Originally Posted by secrets2010 View Post

    Paypal dispute:

    The buyer has filed a claim stating this transaction was made without the account holder's knowledge or consent. Please click Resolve Claim Now to view your options to resolve this issue and how to provide relevant information will help in PayPal's investigation. We must receive your response by 7 calendar days from case creation in order to include your input in our investigation.


    Well I cannot do anything about it...I don't know if the buyer's account was hacked...and I'm not the one who authorize the payment...

    What should I do?
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  • Profile picture of the author kalens99
    It is almost scary to tell people Paypal refunds the money if the buyer claims it was unathorized. Now they can do that whenever they want. They need a better system of looking into it. But it is what it is and right now I guess you need to just think of it as a business expense. If you provided a legitimate service they accepted you should bill them though and get confirmation that they are going to pay you. Then, you have proof and they can't claim that again. Unless they claim their email was hacked too.
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  • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
    An Unauthorized transaction is insinuating fraud. which means the buyer is now not obligated to pay. Sure you could go through and try and win it. but let me ask you this. say your friend comes over you guys have a party and he decides to use your credit card to pay for something while you are passed out. same address. same ip address. but the transaction is not authorized.
    do yourself a favor and swallow the pride refund the customer and save your energy for important things. building your business. The customer no matter what some may or may not think is Always Right. that is the difference between a successful business and a dying one the customer must at all cost come first. Digital transaction by themselves are not usually refundable nor enforced as such by paypal but if fraud is alleged that is criminal and there are certain protocols they need to follow .end of story.
    -WD
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  • Profile picture of the author Apollo77
    I've been told by people that if you have rock-solid proof of delivery to that person's IP that you can beat it but I can't remember what system they were using for delivery.
    Payloadz.com is great for this. They track the customers IP and how many clicks from that IP. So they can tell if someone is downloading your product multiple times and even stop it. There are many other benefits of using their service as well.

    It would be a good way in the future to tell if someone has downloaded your product or not with proof.
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  • Profile picture of the author Meharis
    Originally Posted by secrets2010 View Post

    Paypal dispute:

    The buyer has filed a claim stating this transaction was made without the account holder's knowledge or consent. Please click Resolve Claim Now to view your options to resolve this issue and how to provide relevant information will help in PayPal's investigation. We must receive your response by 7 calendar days from case creation in order to include your input in our investigation.


    Well I cannot do anything about it...I don't know if the buyer's account was hacked...and I'm not the one who authorize the payment...

    What should I do?
    Ok. Here I'm reading all this comments and looks like most people give up.
    What really surprise me is that two different warriors gave a good solution:
    1.ccmusicman
    2.Johnny Slater
    I'm not a technical person but, I would like to suggest something.
    How about if beside solutions 1 and 2, for instance after receiving PayPal
    payment, the Seller automatically sends an email to the Buyer
    instructing him to replay including the Code received to:
    YouCantCheatMe(@)goodplr.com ?
    Right there will be one more way to show the buyer made the purchase.
    Kind of "Opting Payment".
    I hope it can done. Sometimes, I think we should have a fund for
    suing unscrupulous
    people and take away from them even the dog's leash...
    Meharis
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  • Profile picture of the author good2go4
    I had exactly this problem a month ago - they buyer sent me an email and lodged a dispute with Paypal - he claimed his paypal account had been hacked and it was for one of my WSOs here. Because he had lodged the Paypal dispute the money was being held, so I left my version of events on the claim and Paypal actually gave the money to me - I did refund it as a gesture of good faith, but not until Paypal had first unblocked the money in my account to do so.

    Best wishes
    Lisa
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  • Profile picture of the author BloggerHigh
    If you can show he used the product, and from where, Paypal will look at their own logs. If they can't find any 'evidence of unauthorized use' (i.e. he paid for it using his usual IP) they will decide in YOUR favor.
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  • Profile picture of the author CrhisD
    When you come right down to it, no one can "prove" anything. You can't prove that I'm human, and not some advanced AI. You can't prove that you exist. You can't prove that this world exists, and is not a huge simulation running on someone's superserver somewhere.

    I guess that's why the term "prove beyond a reasonable doubt" exists. You can't prove anything unless you can turn back time, so I guess it would be sufficient to prove it to their satisfaction (ie. if the other party can't come up with a reasonable explanation, then you have to be awarded the case.)
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  • Profile picture of the author celente
    I had a numb idiot from estonia or somewhere create a dispute and i think he even tried to hack my account. Becareful out there people. There is some strange stuff going on at the moment.

    Anyone seeing a flood of those fake, papal emails at the moment. Here is a tip make sure you check the address. Sometimes they use gmail and make the address something like paypal.hack[at]gmail.com.... it catches alot of people off guard.
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    • Profile picture of the author secrets2010
      I thought paypal would know the ip of the place where the transaction has been made...so that they could investigate the issue on their own...

      anyway I think the best thing to do is just ignore the dispute and let paypal do what they want...
      well I'll contact the vendor if he tracked the ip and ask what he can find out...

      The payment is a commission from payspree...

      thanks for your help
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      • Profile picture of the author Doug Wakefield
        Originally Posted by secrets2010 View Post

        I thought paypal would know the ip of the place where the transaction has been made...so that they could investigate the issue on their own...

        anyway I think the best thing to do is just ignore the dispute and let paypal do what they want...
        well I'll contact the vendor if he tracked the ip and ask what he can find out...

        The payment is a commission from payspree...

        thanks for your help
        This is totally out of your hands anyways. The vendor can issue the refund and cut you out of the equation.

        I'm surprised so many people missed that.
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    • Profile picture of the author secrets2010
      UPDATE:

      I just received the email from paypal:

      "We have completed our investigation of the transaction below and were
      unable to find evidence of unauthorized access to the buyer’s account. This
      case was denied to the buyer and no funds were recovered from your account"




      By the way, I didn't respond to the dispute at all (as I couldnt know if the transaction had been authorized or not...) I just let paypal decide...
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  • Profile picture of the author lcookidl
    it would be nice to reply and give your side of story. if an item was bought then the buyer should pay for the item, but I believe paypal will resolve the issue based on merits presented
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  • Profile picture of the author Jesus Perez
    From a technical point of view, shared IPs are common. There are large companies that have one public facing IP address and thousands employees. One could have stolen credentials and placed an order. Also, the transaction could have been a son, daughter or other family member in the same household that was unauthorized. Think about it...how many people leave their PC unlocked with autofill passwords?

    I normally refund straight away...however, next time I'll rebuttal and note the results.
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    • Profile picture of the author secrets2010
      Originally Posted by Jesus Perez View Post

      From a technical point of view, shared IPs are common. There are large companies that have one public facing IP address and thousands employees. One could have stolen credentials and placed an order. Also, the transaction could have been a son, daughter or other family member in the same household that was unauthorized. Think about it...how many people leave their PC unlocked with autofill passwords?

      I normally refund straight away...however, next time I'll rebuttal and note the results.

      But jesus do I really have to refund straight away? Would it not be better let paypal review the case...?
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    • Profile picture of the author Johnny Slater
      If the purchase is made by any member of the card holders family it is usually not considered unauthorized. I know there are cases where the card holder does successfully argue they didn't authorize the charge but usually if a credit card is used by a family member that is considered authorized.

      With PayPal it can get a bit more tricky, but if you provide enough information PayPal does side with the seller, depending on the amount and type of information provided.


      Originally Posted by Jesus Perez View Post

      Also, the transaction could have been a son, daughter or other family member in the same household that was unauthorized.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jesus Perez
        Originally Posted by secrets2010 View Post

        But jesus do I really have to refund straight away? Would it not be better let paypal review the case...?
        Considering Johnny's advice (and if you have the supporting proof), fight it. Then base future decisions to fight on your opportunity cost.

        Originally Posted by Johnny Slater View Post

        If the purchase is made by any member of the card holders family it is usually not considered unauthorized. I know there are cases where the card holder does successfully argue they didn't authorize the charge but usually if a credit card is used by a family member that is considered authorized.

        With PayPal it can get a bit more tricky, but if you provide enough information PayPal does side with the seller, depending on the amount and type of information provided.
        Johnny, I'd be really interested in seeing a sample of your Paypal responses. I think it would make a great WSO as well.
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  • Profile picture of the author bestIMtools
    Contact the buyer directly to remind them of the purchase they made. I've had this happen when someone is on auto-billing and after a while they forget about the subscription they bought. I give them a call, and very politely remind them of what they purchase, tell them if they like I will unsubscribe them from the membership, and ask them to remove the Paypal dispute.

    Most of the time the customer thoroughly apologizes and said they just didn't recognize the charge, but now they remember.

    I would also offer them a free month or something else free for the trouble.

    If they instead insist on a refund, I'm glad to refund the amount.
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  • Profile picture of the author kingofseo
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author All Night Cafe
      If this one refund will not kill your business, just
      refund it. If you stay in IM long enough you will
      get refund requests.

      The great Dan Kennedy says, if you haven't pissed
      someone off or gotten a refund request by noon, your
      not selling enough.
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  • Profile picture of the author thegotoguy
    I would just issue a full refund and forget about it. I run into issues like this here and there. Sometimes it is actual fraud and other times it is some scumbag who wants something for nothing. But its not going to make or break me so I always just issue a full refund no questions asked. I don't want to jeopardize my paypal account over one sale.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ninawa
    My advice to anyone who gets a dispute on paypal is to WITHDRAW their money. Paypal LOVES to close accounts and freeze people's money and having a dispute works great for them as an excuse. This is why I stopped offering my services at lower quality forums, you give people the correct service/product but they want to get it for free so they dispute to get money back and not only they harm you by this, they harm because the odds of your paypal getting closed after a dispute are HIGH especially if you're not from a first tier country.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ditso
      Just remember the golden rule. Paypal have the gold so they make the rules.

      I've been done over by paypal as a buyer and a seller. I always seem to get the short end of the stick with them.
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      • Profile picture of the author Ninawa
        Originally Posted by Ditso View Post

        Just remember the golden rule. Paypal have the gold so they make the rules.

        I've been done over by paypal as a buyer and a seller. I always seem to get the short end of the stick with them.
        I absolutely know what you're talking about. I happen to pray that they will one day have a much more decent competitor that will blow them all away
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  • Profile picture of the author WeavingThoughts
    It has happened with me before and I have won most such disputes in the past except one dispute which was a chargeback. I can't recall any dispute that I have lost with Paypal as a seller (unless I refunded myself) except the one which was a chargeback.

    There are very good chances of you winning the dispute by providing honest info and proof.

    Though winning isn't guaranteed, and impossible in case it was a cc chargeback. But other than that the odds are in your favor, not against you.
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