[Filiipino] Virtual Employees - Do you lose them fast? Why?

The good VA's are scooped up quickly full time.

Because they're your "Filipino VEs" and not your "web content guys."

Treat people as interchangeable, and they'll behave like they're interchangeable.

True, but I think one of the reasons why is that people rarely understand how VE's work - all VE's in general in terms of work ethics, productivity levels, and even in salary.

Ah man, I've never had this happen. I'd hire people and then they never get back to me, but I've never had someone disappear after doing some work for me.

I've had the luck of working with some great guys, and I wouldn't trade them for the world. They make my life SO much easier.

The only problem that I've had is when I ask a virtual employee
to do something that they don't know how to do.

Just as in the U.S., people often exaggerate when composing
a resume. Then if you later ask them to DO something mentioned
on the resume that they really don't know how to do they
quietly disappear rather than (in their eyes) losing face.

I avoid that problem by making it VERY clear what I will
have them doing for me. I asked them to confirm that they
understand, and explain that they are initially hired on a
trial basis.

I also realize that many people won't do things exactly
as I would do them (assuming I knew how to do the task
in the first place). So, I expect to have to train them on
some tasks, and I give very detailed instructions on how
I want something done.

If they don't do it right, I have them do it over, and if
they still couldn't get it right, I'd fire them... but that has
not be necessary for me thus far. I have put virtual
employees on different tasks though.

I also explain that I understand they may need to be
told how to do certain things and that I don't always
expect perfection the first time. I'm willing to put in the
time and training to get the virtual employee that I need,
and I am flexible and treat them with the same respect
that I would expect to be treated with.

I outsource a lot of boring, repetitive task, or tasks
that I know I shouldn't be doing, and I wonder how I
ever managed without virtual employees :-)

Willie

Nope... I have one that has worked for me for 5 years... They stay as long as possible because I have a great system and they work hard and are rewarded well.

If you do not rise their pay a little they will move on to the next best thing. Treat them well and you will do well!

I had my main virtual assistant for a couple of years, and I was sad to see her go (family issues). I've been having a hard time finding just the right fit, until now, I just hired someone who looks promising.
Here's a few tips:
Have all tasks detailed in writing and/or video.
Offer training as much as possible
Offer flexible schedule (the 12 hour difference is not easy to work with)
Also, having someone on a salary makes for more stability (on their side), than if you hire people on a project or hourly basis.
Part-time or full time?
I had one full-time and I just switched to 2 part-timers because I need the specialized skills that's hard to find in one person, but I have no experience with this, so maybe someone else can chime in.
Is it better to have one person full-time or a couple of part time?

Thanks
Alberto

good questions and discussion. I started on elance and just recently found odesk. I found a great team on elance, and we became good friends and they LOVE working for me. They have created 2 websites, flash videos, logos, ebook designs, etc. They had some rough patches of disappearing for a few days or so, only because it gets 120 degrees in india and they have power loss, fires, etc.

If you are looking for a great hard working va to do some work for you, minisite design,etc, I can refer you via pm.

odesk, I just found and put up for SEO, I got 25 proposals in 2 hours, that doesn't happen on elance. so far so good.

Bottom line is this, treat them as if they worked for you here in the states. period. they are very PROUD to be working for us americans (because we kick ass, lol, yea right) and they want to impress and get hired FULL TIME. Which is what I eventually did with my indian friends and va's from elance.

treat them with respect, BONUS then on each gig, or pay them early or something, they will work harder for you.

thats my .02.

sorry to hear that mate.

That's one of the disadvantage in hiring a freelancer. that's why I always suggest to look for a reputable firm/company with a proven track record in offering business services. A staff that you lease from an outsourcing company are backed by a good management and technical team also, your files and data are secured and confidential.

It varies. Some VEs will stay and some will surely go "POOF". It just depends on the system employed by the clients. If the feel strangled or pressured add to that a pay that doesn't suit their quality work, the will surely back out.

Take into consideration the economic factor that offshore outsourcing countries have. It's far cry compared to other developed countries.

As what JamieSEO have said "treat VAs as people!". Though they work and interact to you through a machine called computer, they are not mere objects of imagination or a non-stop working robot. They feel tired and hurt. Just be more understanding.

Always remember that your business is their life and their life is your business.

The ones I lose are the ones who hype up their skills and then cannot perform.

The rest I fire.

hmm... lets see.

FILIPINO Virtual Employees- Do you lose them FAST? WHY?

okay, before making any assumptions on WHY, let us answer the question of WHO, there are two parties involve here, the FILIPINO VIRTUAL EMPLOYEE and the EMPLOYER. So the LOSING can be because of the FILIPINO VIRTUAL EMPLOYEE OR the Employer. Right?

About the original question:

Why are Filipino outsourcers great at first and then you lose them?

We can see that based on the statement that there was a change that took place. GREAT AT FIRST and then most likely they became NOT GREAT in the long run. Taking that fact from the statement and apply it to two both parties involve. It should be like this:

THE FILIPINO OUTSOURCES ARE GREAT AT FIRST>>>> NOT GREAT in the long run

BUT it can also be assumed that

THE EMPLOYERS ARE GREAT AT FIRST>>>> NOT GREAT in the long run

Therefore, the change may really be on the FILIPINO VIRTUAL EMPLOYEE OR THE EMPLOYER?

Why?

We don't know. Think about it. Ask yourself.(for Filipino Virtual Employees and Employers)

Regards,
Chris

I can't specifically give any feedback on Filipino outsoucers but we have used a company in India for 5-6 years for data input and software submissions without any gaps in service or any other related problems. If you need a point of contact for the company I use please let me know.

Also another hint that is guaranteed to boost work conditions and output: Change your mindset from "hiring virtual employee" to "building a team"... create a dynamic geared towards growth, cultivate talent, and surprise them with a day off once in a while...

I agree that the most important thing is to see the other person as a human being, to treat them well and offer full-time work with a view to building a long-term team of va's.

Based on the number of post, the 4 lines of anchor keyword links in the signature and the fact that it's not the first time these things happen on the forum... I'd have to say we've got a backlink spammer

True. I do believe that its not with the nationalities, otherwise, sooner or later, we'd have a country known for good outsourcing.

Plus, I really find it unfair to generalize just because of bad experience. Even if you did experience thirty bad VA's from a country, that wouldn't even be a percent of the total number of VA's. Do the math and Youll see what Im saying

We also cant blame people when they jump ships. I had an employer once who asked me to do one FULLY DESIGNED Wordpress Website per day, either that or Twenty 300-word articles. I felt like I was working at a sweat shop.

In fairness to Filipinos too, As I am one, for MANY MANY years we've handled technical and customer support requests from big companies in the states - ATT, Verizon, Cingular, even big companies! And these companies HAVE grown. tremendously.

I really think its with the employer. An employee is like a tool, a computer, with feelings, sure it can process stuff and make your life easier but if dont know how to deal with it, work with it or use it properly, its just a tool

Actually - I have to disagree with that statement :p

From spending the past year managing workers from various countries and testing out different pay scales I found out some VERY important assumptions I had made were incorrect.

The impact of paying more (up to double the standard industry rate) was:
NO increase in reliability
NO difference in quality
NO difference in delivery time
NO less headaches

This was the same result for workers from the Philippines, USA, Europe, Bangladesh, etc.

Those working at higher pay did not perform any better or worse on average than those paid less for exactly the same tasks.

Instead I found three simple (and no extra cost) things to do that not only gets you people that stay, but also workers that will be reliable, loyal, improve their skills and the reputation of your business.

When recruiting and reviewing performance the focus always needs to be placed on reliability.

Skills can be learned, but reliability is a personality trait and is influenced far more by emotion than logic.

You need to pay more to have people work for you if you are a pain in the butt, however even if you have less pay to offer these kinds of workers will stay with you if they feel valued.

Offer opportunities for advancement.

Provide workers with access to free training to improve their skills and learn new tasks.

As they improve skills have new tasks they can move up to (eg. from article writing to ebook writing).

Each time they "level up" with a new or improved skill make sure to:

Acknowledge this achievement in front of their peers (mention in your newsletter, on their Facebook Wall, Tweet it, post on internal website board, leave a positive review on their LinkedIn profile, etc).

This has a fantastic impact - you are publicly praising them, thereby increasing their status among their peers, and also encouraging other workers wanting to be acknowledged for doing the same.

Reward Good Performance

If they did a great job on a task, tell them.

If their work gets positive feedback from a client, tell them and also make sure to quote it on their LinkedIn or other online profiles.

Create a certificate to give them (eg. "Top Quality Writer").

Have a "worker of the month" type program and reward the winner with ad space on your website to promote any affiliate product they want so they make more money, but it doesn't cost your business anything.

The boost to their self confidence any time they hear "good job" makes them happy, and a happy worker is an efficient worker

So... back to OP... Maybe it's because IMers don't know how to work with Filipinos...

I personally feel that this whole Internet marketing / Filipino "thing" is pretty disgusting.

There are some good people who at least have some humanitarian values about them employing VA's but when Internet marketers start taking a race of people and parade them as cheap labor it makes me wonder if we ever learned anything from history.

It's bad enough anyway that the majority of people are manipulated and conned out of their money for third rate products using increasingly underhand tactics but this latest Filipino VA push by a lot of the big marketers is just plain wrong.

And please, you can put whatever spin you want on reasons to make yourself feel good but if you are parading Filipinos on a website and charging people a [substantial] monthly fee then you are making money off the backs of people you profess to be "helping". People are even earning commissions from promoting "cheap" Filipino labor.

I guess I started being so anti this particular topic when I received an email from a big name marketer saying ... "And, the great thing: They're not a headache!!! They actually think like Americans!"

That is an actual quote.

It stunned me with the depth of lack of understanding of the Filipino people.

Additionally, searching for an all-in-one synopsis of Filipinos and how they think is just not right in this context. You can't understand an entire race of people from a quick web search.

With the sincerest and greatest respect to JamieSEO who has provided some great value on the WF, I think the checklist could be applied to just about everyone all over the world except we in the West do tend to raise our voices more than our Asian counterparts.

I worked with Filipinos for over 20 years and they are honorable, hard working people. A huge percentage of them spend YEARS away from their families to make a better life for themselves. I have also visited the Philippines many times and appreciate the hardship of ordinary Filipinos.

Please let us not exploit people by taking commissions in exchange for selling cheap labor.

Sorry to be so intense but it is a subject I feel strongly about.

==

In answer to kawistry, the OP, Filipinos are no different to anybody else. Starting a new job or project full of enthusiasm and then losing interest is not just a Filipino trait but you will know that anyway :-)

In the early days of having issues with VA's, (I have worked with Americans, Brits, Indonesians, Croatians, Poles etc, etc), I can trace it back to myself either having unrealistic expectations, expecting people to work exactly like I do or, the biggie, not giving them enough information to get on and do the job.

It's a 2 way street that takes a lot of patience to get right when you first start outsourcing.

Ade

Filipinos are very hardworking indeed. I'm glad to worked with them and you'll be lucky to have them for years of work.

I've experienced this in the past.

This usually happens to your best people that has another job/working part time for you.

If they are good, and gives you great results, LOCK THEM UP long term.

Also, be sure that the training is already there, and the job they are supposed to do should be clear

I believe it's generally the case with everyone, any nationality, if the person begins to feel unchallenged and unrewarded, which leads to low motivation and initiative, if any.

I believe keeping them motivated and inspired constantly requires throwing ridiculous amounts of ridiculously challenging tasks at people with great professionalism, skills and knowledge, and of course they will ask for ridiculous amounts of rewards, too, so give them that, and they will leave you once you no longer motivate them with more challenging tasks and inspire them with due rewards, so make that your job as an employer, but even if you as an employer fail to do this somewhere down the road, this person would've provided you with the best value as a colleague before leaving, and this person leaves with a broader scope of opportunities, which means you just improved the life of a person who has in turn improved your business while with you. This would most likely mean you have learned a lot of things relevant to working with others for the growth of your business, so this should also mean, though not necessarily, you can replicate and further improve what you learned, all for the development of your business and the attainment of your objectives. I don't think it's right to hinder the growth of a person just because another person finds utility in doing so. I'm not saying anyone here is doing this, it's just that the objective of the employer should be to improve his business while also improving the lives of everyone he works with, which in turn naturally improves his business further, onwards to better dimensions. I think of it as somewhat similar to viral marketing: You develop a product that actually solves the problems and improves the lives of your customers, and they will willingly become your affiliates and advertisers without even asking for commissions from you, which means more reach, better marketing, higher brand loyalty and more sales for you without any cost, other than great product development systems and helpful customer support services, which would always be included in your business overheads anyway.