If You Use PayPal in Your Business, Do You Have a Disaster Recovery Plan?

13 years ago

If your PP account gets frozen just switch buttons and links to Alertpay or 2checkout or somewhere else while your waiting for them to sort it.

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Alexa Smith

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by j0s3

If any of you use PayPal (and nothing else) and your online venture is bringing a bit of money in, it's worth you spending some time looking at a disaster recovery scenario.

It is indeed - and thanks for the reminder.

I find myself thinking about this increasingly, since reading E Brian Rose's thread here a week or so ago.

Most of my income comes from Clickbank, but I earn through PayPal as well, and I do worry about it.

I have accounts set up and active with AlertPay (which I think is underrated, these days, and not too bad at all) and with Moneybookers (whose idea of "customer service" is only slightly better than Clickbank's, and - believe me - that's saying something. But at least if you send Moneybookers an email, you do get a reply: you may get it more than a week later, but you do get one!).

In the long run, one's own proper merchant account is the answer, I think. It doesn't necessarily solve all of the problems, but it takes some of the worry away, I expect.

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sbucciarel

Banned 13 years ago

I opened a merchant account through Credit Card Processing Services & Equipments | Merchant Account Services
Took one day for approval and I'm accepting Visa, MC and Discover for a launch right now. Too many Paypal froze my account stories for my taste.

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j0s3

13 years ago

Cool - there's some alternatives coming in

Nochex -> I forgot about these people. I set up an account with them a year ro so ago - there's a signup fee (about $80 or so) and that's it.

They're a UK company but I have seen their logo dotted about here and there on eBay stores. Not as great a brand to leverage as PayPal, but they do seem to be trying hard to enter the mainstream.

I also notice GoDaddy do a shopping cart. I only use GD for domain hosting so I've no idea what their cart is like, but one thing about GD is that they are professional through and through (down to the annoying upsells they have on just about every single screen element)

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j0s3

13 years ago

Actually... talking or brand awareness and leverage...

Google Checkout

We ALL should have this alternative in the payment page.

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1 reply

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Alexa Smith

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by j0s3

Actually... talking or brand awareness and leverage...

Google Checkout

We ALL should have this alternative in the payment page.

I see you're in the UK, Jose? Have Google Checkout's terms and conditions changed, since I looked? UK residents could only use Google Checkout to receive funds if they were a VAT-registered corporation, then. Clearly a very major drawback - but perhaps that's different, now?

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j0s3

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

I see you're in the UK, Jose? Have Google Checkout's terms and conditions changed, since I looked? UK residents could only use Google Checkout to receive funds if they were a VAT-registered corporation, then. Clearly a very major drawback - but perhaps that's different, now?

Yes I think they've definitely changed that. I'm not VAT registered and I can make payments with google checkout and receive payments.

They have snazzy 'buy now' buttons too, just like PayPal.

The only pain is that your google checkout account has to be linked to your gmail account even if you use (pay for, rather...) Google Enterprise (not very professional in some situations...)

Definitely check it out: it's worth at the very least placing those google checkut buttons next to the... hmm... PayPal buttons.

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Brad Gosse

13 years ago

I use paypal even though I have been slapped once (I got them to see their mistakes and let me continue).

1. They are the most used processor
2. People trust them

I have back ups out the wazoo. My own merch acct, clickbank, 2co etc. I suggest everyone gets their own merchant account. It just makes sense.

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Leslie B

13 years ago

I use Paypal as main payment processor, but I do have a backup in place with 2checkout. I also have an account with Alertpay which I can use in that case.

Leslie

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LB

13 years ago

There's also the option of simply using Clickbank. If you don't want to worry about the affiliate side of things you can always set no affiliate commission and leave your product out of the marketplace.

You will pay more in transaction fees but the flipside is I highly doubt you have to worry about CB losing their Paypal account.

Plus, CB treats their top clients well compared to Paypal. It's not a perfect alternative, but it is one.

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Alexa Smith

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by LB

There's also the option of simply using Clickbank. If you don't want to worry about the affiliate side of things you can always set no affiliate commission and leave your product out of the marketplace.

Well, you can leave it out of the marketplace and set 1% commission; I think that's the minimum? But they charge 7.25% + $1 per transaction!

Originally Posted by LB

Plus, CB treats their top clients well compared to Paypal.

This is a good point. We complain about many aspects of Clickbank's service, but they do pay up on time, every time that their tracking's working, and they don't give you "the PayPal worry".

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Asanga

13 years ago

what exactly happens when paypal freezes a account specifically what happens to the money you already have in there ???

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j0s3 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Asanga

what exactly happens when paypal freezes a account specifically what happens to the money you already have in there ???

If you read the horror stories (or search for 'paypal nightmares') you'll see that when PayPal freeze an account, the money in the account stays put... making PayPal interest (of course).

Some of the stories floating about are from people who relied on PayPal for their payment processing on their websites and who's accounts were frozen 'without warning' with up to 10k in them.

The horrifying thing is that PayPal don't seem to be very helpful when this happens, and generally are hard to get a response from.

In my own case, my account was empty - I only used it to buy about a dozen things from eBay.

I got an email from PayPal telling me that there had been some 'suspicious' activity in my account, and thus they were freezing it.

Apparently, this is the most common 'thing': 'suspicious activity'.

I asked them to explain to me what exactly this entails... since no @*! had logged in to my account...

Anyway, in my own experience, they were impossible to deal with. I had nothing but template e-mails= responses to my questions, of the verbose variety... and they tried to make me jump through plenty of hoops without answering anything (I even rang them on 2 occasions).

Anyway, they asked me to fax a copy of my passport and other ID... at which point I told them where they could stick their cart.

My advise is don't build your business around PayPal. Use them to build trust with your visitors on your site, but have a plan B that you can put into action very fast.

Shame though, the whole idea behind PayPal is brilliant...
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Barry Unruh

13 years ago

My backup consists of 2 AlertPay accounts, one in my name, one in my wife's. 3 added Paypal accounts, my wife's, and my two parents who will never use them but were happy to sign up. I have a Google Checkout account, too.

I have not signed up for a merchant account at this point, but have 4 different merchant account processors sitting in my bookmarks which have been highly recommended, ready for quick action if I would ever need it.

Clickbank would be my next move for any products I produce.

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DireStraits

13 years ago

I don't really receive payments through PayPal for anything anymore, so this doesn't really apply to me. (Though clearly I need an AdSense and Amazon disaster recovery plan - and diversifying into Clickbank affiliate marketing is part of that).

A few short years ago, it was a different story, though: about 40% of my clientele were making payments through PayPal (many of them on an automated, recurring basis). Every so often I'd get some dispute by some customer who forgot to cancel or didn't recognise the charge on their statement or whatever (despite seeing it many times before) and I'd get to worrying about what'd happen if PayPal were to freeze or otherwise terminate my account.

I was just about to switch over to my own merchant account through WorldPay so that I could take the credit card details directly through my site, rather than through a 3rd party payment page at PaySystems or 2CheckOut - just in the hope it'd encourage them to "pay me directly" - but then I got out of the business I was in anyway and forgot all about it.

These things are worth thinking about (and planning for), for sure - your business is important, after all. But you can never really guarantee the safety or reliability of any service, so there's always going to be some risk; some potential inconvenience or disaster looming just over the horizon ... but such is life.

(So says the guy who's been riddled with intolerable anxiety and bouts of depression for the past few years, lol).

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Margo Tuul

13 years ago

Most PayPal accounts get frozen because they either don't use verified account, or they go over the limit. In order to gain unlimited account, you need to provide more details, than just your name and bank account. Also talking about VAT, this is totally optional IF you are not going over the limit. I'm from Ireland and €37,500 is max you can have. If you are going over this limit, you need VAT.

If you know, that you have large amount of money coming in...tell PayPal. Just ring and say that your product launch or something is coming up. If they don't know, how you got $10k+ in 1 day...what do you expect. You will get shut down.

People should look, do they have any restrictions on their PayPal account before they send or receive money.

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Silas Hart 13 years ago

I would say if your business is earning over $500 a month, just:

1) Get a Real merchant account
2) PayFlow Pro

I have PayFlow Pro and my actual merchant account set up through 6 eCommerce websites, and 12 eBay accounts, not one issue. All doing at least a couple transactions each week, even recurring billing. I accept PayPal just like everyone else, and I save more money in fees this way too. I was actually told by eBay once that my payment set up is seen as less of a risk, even though eBay owns PayPal. I was told once that I can't accept PayPal payments from people outside of the U.S., but I do so just fine.

There are start-up costs involved, and it's not as user friendly, but it's the way things Should be set up. I use it to my advantage a lot too. I've had numerous people pay me with PayPal and then try to do a chargeback hours later, only to get walled by my actual merchants fraud detection services. No disputes, and the only transaction that was a chargeback was when someone used a U.S. PayPal account to purchase about $2,000 worth of wholesale items to India. I lost no money.

I would say using PayPal for any type of actual business is like trying to go cross-country on a tricycle.
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Asanga

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Margo Tuul

Most PayPal accounts get frozen because they either don't use verified account, or they go over the limit. In order to gain unlimited account, you need to provide more details, than just your name and bank account. Also talking about VAT, this is totally optional IF you are not going over the limit. I'm from Ireland and €37,500 is max you can have. If you are going over this limit, you need VAT.

If you know, that you have large amount of money coming in...tell PayPal. Just ring and say that your product launch or something is coming up. If they don't know, how you got $10k+ in 1 day...what do you expect. You will get shut down.

People should look, do they have any restrictions on their PayPal account before they send or receive money.

hey im new to this can explain a bit more about this.first i thought paypal business accounts did not have any upper limit.second what do you mean by VAT is it as in VAT taxes ???..Third can some one tell me about merchant accounts a good merchant account that one can use outside of USA.

and isnt there a issue of ppl less willing to enter their credit card info directly isnt it a loss of sales potential when using over paypal

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Alexa Smith

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Margo Tuul

If you know, that you have large amount of money coming in...tell PayPal. Just ring and say that your product launch or something is coming up. If they don't know, how you got $10k+ in 1 day...what do you expect.

And what do you think about the situation when you call them, tell them that your product launch or something is coming up, get the ok from them over the phone, go ahead as planned and still get your account closed down?

I was just wondering, reading your post, whether you've seen this very recent thread? The first post alone may make your hair stand on end.

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Johnny Slater

13 years ago

The post you quoted actually violated PayPal's TOS. Brian was doing pre paid webinars, which is against the rules of PayPal.

They clearly state that you can not accept any payment for a product that has not yet been created. Selling access to a webinar is considered preselling seats to a future event which would violate their TOS.

PayPal was fully in the right for what they did in Brians situation.

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

And what do you think about the situation when you call them, tell them that your product launch or something is coming up, get the ok from them over the phone, go ahead as planned and still get your account closed down?

I was just wondering, reading your post, whether you've seen this very recent thread? The first post alone may make your hair stand on end.

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CyberSorcerer

13 years ago

Like others have mentioned, I have backups too. My best backup is 2CheckOut and also don't forget Clickbank which I use too.

Also my paypal account is empty all the time? The reason is, when I get an email of receiving payment I ALWAYS go straight to the bank and withdrawal ALL the money out so there is NEVER a balance for Paypal to freeze EVER.

That's how I deal with them.

Thanks
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Silas Hart

13 years ago

Originally Posted by CyberSorcerer

Like others have mentioned, I have backups too. My best backup is 2CheckOut and also don't forget Clickbank which I use too.

Also my paypal account is empty all the time? The reason is, when I get an email of receiving payment I ALWAYS go straight to the bank and withdrawal ALL the money out so there is NEVER a balance for Paypal to freeze EVER.

That's how I deal with them.

You do know that PayPal can just reach into your bank account and pull out as much as they want, right? Lets hope there's enough there so you don't overdraw your account and owe your bank and the additional fees.

Thanks
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CyberSorcerer

13 years ago

Originally Posted by FaJeeb

You do know that PayPal can just reach into your bank account and pull out as much as they want, right? Lets hope there's enough there so you don't overdraw your account and owe your bank and the additional fees.

The bank account attached to my paypal is already closed just paypal doesn't know that and they never will until when they actual do try and ask the bank for money.

As for refunds on my IM membership site, my support handles those and a refund is no problem. As soon as a request comes in money is put into the account and refund granted.

My paypal account has been like this for about 3 years now. Good customer service and promising on what's delivered is what makes all the difference.

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Bryan Zimmerman

13 years ago

Originally Posted by FaJeeb

You do know that PayPal can just reach into your bank account and pull out as much as they want, right? Lets hope there's enough there so you don't overdraw your account and owe your bank and the additional fees.

That's why you set up a extra account and transfer everything out of the bank account you have linked up to that account too. Then they can't do anything. Soon as it hits one account, it gets pulled out ASAP into another one not linked to paypal. After I saw what happened to Brian, I'm not taking any chances with them at all

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robs132

13 years ago

What are some of the reason that your paypal account gets frozen?

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j0s3

13 years ago

The reason PayPal accounts get frozen are sometimes 'because PayPal say there's a reason. In my case, with my personal account, they told me that there had been some unusual activity in my account. I hadn't used it in over 8 months at the time, and it had only ever been used to buy about a dozen items in ebay, each of them less than $100.

I logged on to my PayPal account and there was nothing there (nor do I believe anybody had logged in).

I'm not much in favour of conspiracy theories, but if you Google 'paypal nightmares' you can't help but become wary when there are thousands of people independently venting against PayPal, or filing lawsuits.

And having said all this... I'm somewhat surprised by the e-mail I got this morning, from PayPal... saying:

[Your account has been limited until we hear from you]

So now, my business account (which has been used about 6 times, and IS verified) is now frozen (they say limited in their e-mail, but I can't pay money in or out).

So there goes, I start the tread and a day later I get it from PayPal... you have to laugh

Needless to say, I won't be complying with them and sending them my passport details and a copy of my f* bank statement, as they're asking.

The reason?
102 people in this thread say their account wasn't restored after they complied:
Paypal has limited my account until I re-confirm everything!!!!

So I'll be looking at the alternatives this weekend.

Google Checkout (which I already have) and AlertPay look good.

Thanks
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j0s3

13 years ago

Ok chaps and chappesses... great news...

My only 'thing' with services like alertpay is that they're not always instantly recognizeable (like PayPal).

But...

Here's somebody pretty new to the online payment provider space... and we ALL know who these guys are

https://payments.amazon.com/sdui/sdui/index.htm

Bye bye PayPal

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halmo

13 years ago

Originally Posted by j0s3

Here's somebody pretty new to the online payment provider space... and we ALL know who these guys are

https://payments.amazon.com/sdui/sdui/index.htm

Bye bye PayPal

I have seen Amazon Payments before. It looks very good. The only drawback seems to be that buyers have to already have an amazon account to complete a payment. I didn't find anything on their website that would suggest that buyers could pay directly with their credit cards without having an amazon account.

On the other hand, a great feature is that they offer mobile checkout.

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Margo Tuul

13 years ago

Originally Posted by j0s3

Needless to say, I won't be complying with them and sending them my passport details and a copy of my f* bank statement, as they're asking.

But see, that was the problem. Your account is not fully verified, if you don't provide them your ID and proof of address. If you don't want to send your details, then they can limit, ban, or shut down you...no questions asked. They even don't have to email you.

I'm 100% sure that most of people, who hate PayPal, because their account is closed or frozen, didn't provide any ID or anything. Own fault most likely...

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j0s3

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Margo Tuul

But see, that was the problem. Your account is not fully verified, if you don't provide them your ID and proof of address. If you don't want to send your details, then they can limit, ban, or shut down you...no questions asked. They even don't have to email you.

I understand what you're saying, and of course I realise that if I don't comply with their t&c's then I'm in breach of contract.

My only point was that, it appears that thousands of other PayPal users DID comply as requested, and didn't have their accounts restored. In many cases, much money was lost. (that's the link I provided in my previous post)

I did reply to PayPal and asked what guarantee I have of them giving me full access to the account once I comply.

No reply yet, but I've since then come across horror stories that made me think twice.

There are now alternatives to PayPal, and those alternatives (such as Google Pay) don't have the sheer amount of disgruntled feedback that PayPal now carries.

I'm already using Google checkout - have been for over 12 months now - and I've never had to jump through a proverbial hoop for them.

I'm willing to bet the Amazon Payment experience may be just as smooth.

The reason I'm not about to comply with PayPal is because (to echo many out there) I don't feel confident in a company that suddenly restricts my account and asks me for verification. Why not do that at the start? Not a year later when many an e-commerce owner relying on PayPal was truly caught with their trousers down.

Not just weird but inexcusable. Many e-commerce owners had thousands of dollars in their accounts when they were suddenly and without warning frozen. Without meaning to sound melodramatic, that money pays for overheads and puts food on the table and a roof over the head.

I'm 100% sure that most of people, who hate PayPal, because their account is closed or frozen, didn't provide any ID or anything. Own fault most likely...

Ok, even you don't believe that. There's no smoke without fire.

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Nisip

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by j0s3

The reason PayPal accounts get frozen are sometimes 'because PayPal say there's a reason. In my case, with my personal account, they told me that there had been some unusual activity in my account. I hadn't used it in over 8 months at the time, and it had only ever been used to buy about a dozen items in ebay, each of them less than $100.

I logged on to my PayPal account and there was nothing there (nor do I believe anybody had logged in).

I'm not much in favour of conspiracy theories, but if you Google 'paypal nightmares' you can't help but become wary when there are thousands of people independently venting against PayPal, or filing lawsuits.

And having said all this... I'm somewhat surprised by the e-mail I got this morning, from PayPal... saying:

[Your account has been limited until we hear from you]

So now, my business account (which has been used about 6 times, and IS verified) is now frozen (they say limited in their e-mail, but I can't pay money in or out).

The reason?
102 people in this thread say their account wasn't restored after they complied:
Paypal has limited my account until I re-confirm everything!!!!

So I'll be looking at the alternatives this weekend.

Google Checkout (which I already have) and AlertPay look good.

I am sure there cannot be anything else in the world worse than Paypal.it simply can't.

Search on youtube and google and you will find hundred of thousands of horror stories.

Practically if you have the most honest and 100.00% legitimate business in the world,
Paypal will ALWAYS find a way to freeze your account and keep your money.

The reasons are completely pathetic always "suspicious activity"
or "it's for your own protection".

Random Credit Check: PayPal Freezes Over $5000

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djemerald

13 years ago

I thought paypal was really reliable. How can you protect yourself? can anybody help this trusting marketer.

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Lambert Klein

13 years ago

I've been using PayPal and Authorizenet for almost nine years now. Never had a problem with Paypal but have heard that others have.

Paypal seems to have cheaper processing fees, but most of my customers use credit cards through Authorizenet, which actually goes through 1Shoppingcart for online orders.

Lambert

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Owen Smith

13 years ago

Clickbank simply accepts paypal payments, which go into their account.

Clickbank is brilliant, but it has a high refund rate of sometimes 60-70%

Be careful, a backup plan is needed.

Regards
Owen

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paul wolfe

13 years ago

Has anyone set up payments with Amazon yet? i had a quick look - it seems pretty cool. The only info I can't find - or haven't found yet - is what the time delay is for transferring money you've taken via Amazon to your bank account.

Anyone got any ideas?

TIA

Paul

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bigg

13 years ago

If you're into ecommerce, i'd suggest to lay off paypal.
get a merchant transaction account instead. It doesn't lessen your headaches, it eliminates.

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AmandaT

13 years ago

I've been using paypal as a way to get money from my writing... I only had about $150 on there, but that is a small fortune to me right now. I went to pull some out to go grocery shopping only to find it had gotten locked. I called and they said that there had been an account in my name years ago, when I was 16 or so. That account was -$800. I filed a fraud claim but they still are not opening my account back up. $150 may not be much but when it is all you have it is crushing to have it taken. I guess I just have to hope things pick up and I can make it back soon.

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ladywriter 13 years ago

9/10 places I make money with online pay ONLY through paypal. Paying the Warrior Forum is through Paypal. Do Flippa auctions go through Paypal too?

This is a BIG, BIG worry of mine. Eventually I will have to have a merchant account/set up Google/Amazon, but the steady work I get from the paypal folks would have to be replaced first.

The time I spend worrying about Paypal and transferring my money to my bank account and then to ANOTHER bank account is just ridiculous.
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anthony2

13 years ago

Some Paypal alternative are

google checkout
authorize.net
alertpay (works like paypal)
2 checkout
swreg
safepay (works like paypal)

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Alfredo Carrion

13 years ago

Authorize.net is pretty good. Providing both authorize.net and PayPal are good online payment options.

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komiolopo

13 years ago

not realy untill you call them with real info

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Tjason25

13 years ago

Its always important to have a real merchant account set up even as a back up. Paypal is an IPSP (internet service provider). Basically its like giving your money to Sears and hoping they give it back. If you are doing 10 orders or more a day, a merchant account will give you more rights and flexibility. Just make sure you choose the right one. If you need help let me know.

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If You Use PayPal in Your Business, Do You Have a Disaster Recovery Plan?

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