Biggest Firesale - Conversion Rate Flopped *Why?* | Warrior Forum - The #1 Digital Marketing Forum & Marketplace

15 years ago

My opinion. I didnt like not getting any information when I clicked through to your wso page. Some kind of lead in would be good. The sales page itself looks good, but I dont like mp3's that much, so I would not have bought. I like things I can read, search, go back to specific spots in, etc. Other than that you might have too much there for too little, sometimes if the price is too low its unbelievable. But Im not a marketing genius and I was just trying to help.

Mary

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Free Guide- 52 Time Saving Social Media Tools on Social Media Fuze

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[263634].message }}

JasonParker

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Mary Green

My opinion. I didnt like not getting any information when I clicked through to your wso page. Some kind of lead in would be good. The sales page itself looks good, but I dont like mp3's that much, so I would not have bought. I like things I can read, search, go back to specific spots in, etc. Other than that you might have too much there for too little, sometimes if the price is too low its unbelievable. But Im not a marketing genius and I was just trying to help.

Mary

Thanks for the good intentions Mary, but I already sell the crap out of this.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[263642].message }}

Sean A McAlister

15 years ago

Originally Posted by JasonParker

I promoted the Biggest Firesale yesterday. It's a great package.

Some of my marketer friends and I thought it should be a no-brainer.

Yet it's not even converting at like .25% for us.

Why do you think this "best deal of all time" is converting so low?

I've taken this approach to a similar offer and thought it would convert high before myself.

I listed product after product. I had rights to these mp3s featuring top internet marketers such as Mike Filsaime, Anik Singal, Willie Crawford, and some others.

Same thing happened.

Rock bottom conversion rate.

...I'll tell you why I personally think this Biggest Firesale is converting so low.

It's obvious for such a great offer that the copy was given almost zero tender love and care.

The products are just slopped onto the page one after the other.

Take a look and you'll see that a very small percentage of winning copywriting elements are used.

It goes to show you that even the greatest offer in the world flops without the power of a good sales pitch that digs deep into the prospect.

Jason, I would have to agree 100%

Although it was a great product the sales copy could have been better not to say it was bad.
Additionally, I think that there was too much hype involved with this particular product and the launch cycle itself was not controlled enough.

You are better off the wait and be "Bullet Proof" and make sure all avenues are covered rather than go....and rely purely on the list.... and Quite Frankly...I think that there was JUST TOO MUCH GREAT STUFF!

Not sure how many people watched Frank Kerns Video he put out following out his last Membership launch...but it was a good testimate as to what too much information can do for your sales. His people were just overwhelmed!

Furthermore, Although this method work for Willie....i am unsure if he used the same contextual elements, I think a lot of it had to do with the product title as well.

just my 2 cents

Sean

PS. Nothing against Vince...it was a big project and a lot of work!

Not to mention there are a lot of phenomenal products....not just anyone could pull that kind of a launch off!
Great Job Vice! Great Job!

Thanks
2 replies

Signature

New Product Launches, Affiliate Marketplace

Need More Sales? More Affiliates? LaunchBoards.com

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[263645].message }}

JasonParker

15 years ago

Originally Posted by The IM Reporter

Jason, I would have to agree 100%

Although it was a great product the sales copy could have been better.
Additionally, I think that there was too much hype involved with that particular product and the launch cycle itself was not controlled enough.

You are better off the wait and be "Bullet Proof" and make sure all avenues are covered rather that go....and rely purely on the list.... and Quite Frankly...I think that there was JUST TOO MUCH GREAT STUFF!

Not sure how many people watched Frank Kerns Video he put out following out his last Membership launch...but it was a good testimate as to what too much information can do for your sales. His people were just overwhelmed!

Furthermore, Although this method work for Willie....i am unsure if he used the same contextual elements, I think a lot of it had to do with the product title as well.

just my 2 cents

Sean

PS. Nothing against Vince...it was a big project and a lot of work! Not to mention there are a lot of phenomenal products....not just anyone could pull that kind of a launch off!
Great Job Vice! Great Job!

No doubt Sean.

It's an impressive launch.

Vince did a great job of getting it all together.

...I just think the copy should have been tested before everyone promoted it. My numbers plummeted because of it.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[263673].message }}

bgmacaw

15 years ago

One thought...why even have that stupid, annoying, exit popup if you're not offering any discount?

If I was marketing a package like this I would aggressively target the noobie marketer, somebody who's just lost their job or who thinks they might, somebody who's paying for a 12.5% $500K mortgage on house now worth $250K, somebody who's hungry to jump right into IM to make money NOW! I wouldn't have called it Firesale either. I would have gone with something like "Your Recession Bailout Package".

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[263693].message }}

JasonParker

15 years ago

Originally Posted by bgmacaw

One thought...why even have that stupid, annoying, exit popup if you're not offering any discount?

If I was marketing a package like this I would aggressively target the noobie marketer, somebody who's just lost their job or who thinks they might, somebody who's paying for a 12.5% $500K mortgage on house now worth $250K, somebody who's hungry to jump right into IM to make money NOW! I wouldn't have called it Firesale either. I would have gone with something like "Your Recession Bailout Package".

Hey, I see you're a fellow Atlantaian...

I think you're getting warmer. Some major stirring of emotions is needed in that sales pitch.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[263697].message }}

Pete223

15 years ago

Originally Posted by JasonParker

I promoted the Biggest Firesale yesterday. It's a great package.

Some of my marketer friends and I thought it should be a no-brainer.

Yet it's not even converting at like .25% for us.

Why do you think this "best deal of all time" is converting so low?

I've taken this approach to a similar offer and thought it would convert high before myself.

I listed product after product. I had rights to these mp3s featuring top internet marketers such as Mike Filsaime, Anik Singal, Willie Crawford, and some others.

Same thing happened.

Rock bottom conversion rate.

...I'll tell you why I personally think this Biggest Firesale is converting so low.

It's obvious for such a great offer that the copy was given almost zero tender love and care.

The products are just slopped onto the page one after the other.

Take a look and you'll see that a very small percentage of winning copywriting elements are used.

It goes to show you that even the greatest offer in the world flops without the power of a good sales pitch that digs deep into the prospect.

Hi Jason,

Although I think you are on to something about the sales page copy, I feel maybe the
"workload" of such an offer is also partly to blame...

- One couldn't argue about the value, it's obviously there... heck, some of those products
alone are worth the price tag...
- You couldn't challenge the quality, some of these products are from some of the best
Online entrepreneurs around...

But you can sure imagine the workload involved to put all these products to good use...
and we all know what "work" can do to conversions!

After writing this I think you may be right, good copy could very well help conversions
of such offers...

Makes me wonder what would a "Biggest Firesale" sales page from a guy like Michel Fortin
look like???

Regards, Pete

Thanks
2 replies

Signature

**** 100 WARRIORS AMBUSH THE WEB 50% OFF ****
Use Coupon Code BS89JV

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[263706].message }}

JasonParker

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Pete223

Hi Jason,

Although I think you are on to something about the sales page copy, I feel maybe the
"workload" of such an offer is also partly to blame...

- One couldn't argue about the value, it's obviously there... heck, some of those products
alone are worth the price tag...
- You couldn't challenge the quality, some of these products are from some of the best
Online entrepreneurs around...

But you can sure imagine the workload involved to put all these products to good use...
and we all know what "work" can do to conversions!

After writing this I think you may be right, good copy could very well help conversions
of such offers...

Makes me wonder what would a "Biggest Firesale" sales page from a guy like Michel Fortin
look like???

Regards, Pete

Pete...

I think it says John Hostler worked on the copy for this. If you don't know him, he's Ewen Chia's copywriter and a big name in a lot of circles. Although I don't think he gave this one "the royal treatment." I've seen his work on other websites and he's great.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[263715].message }}

Pete223

15 years ago

Originally Posted by JasonParker

Pete...

I think it says John Hostler worked on the copy for this. If you don't know him, he's Ewen Chia's copywriter and a big name in a lot of circles. Although I don't think he gave this one "the royal treatment." I've seen his work on other websites and he's great.

Yeah... you're right... I remember seeing something on the bottom of the page
thanking sponsors and John was one of them... makes you wonder if a link to individual
product description pages where you could learn more about the products that interest
you the most and more "winning copywriting elements" could change something?

Thanks

Signature

**** 100 WARRIORS AMBUSH THE WEB 50% OFF ****
Use Coupon Code BS89JV

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[263741].message }}

Aaron Moser

15 years ago

I saw the offer and was just simply overwhelmed by it all. The copy didn't mean squat to me. All it needed was a headline to work but there was just soo much stuff I knew it would just collect dust on my HD. Maybe other folks thought the same and in today's economy a $100 saved is a $100 earned.

I also agree with Aaron above... Those thoughts went through my head as well.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[263793].message }}

Karen Keyes

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Aaron Moser

I saw the offer and was just simply overwhelmed by it all. The copy didn't mean squat to me. All it needed was a headline to work but there was just soo much stuff I knew it would just collect dust on my HD. Maybe other folks thought the same and in today's economy a $100 saved is a $100 earned.

I also agree with Aaron above... Those thoughts went through my head as well.

I agree with you there Aaron. I was *this close* to purchasing, even had it narrowed down to two of the best bonus offers.

But in the end I changed my mind. I knew that I didn't really need any of those products - but even if some could help me (which undoubtedly there are excellent products there), when would I ever get time to devote to it?

Now those more likely to jump at this offer, in my opinion, are newer people who might not have a billion gigs of IM material already on their PC. But to attract those people, the price point was a little high. Not saying the price isn't reflecting the value (I'm sure it is a terrific value), but it may be too high for newbies.

All in all, I still really WANT to buy it, but I'm "behaving" and opting out. I'm already busy as all-get-out and definitely do NOT need a hundred products (plus countless bonus products) to distract me further.

Thanks

Signature

When You Are Too Scared To Take Action...

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[263811].message }}

candoit2

15 years ago

For me these types of offers just waste my time and focus.

Getting on a bunch more mailing lists just contributes to that.

To me it seems like people add products that sales are slowing down on, and most likely there is already a similar and better product already or just about on the market.

Trying to learn them all, and apply them, only to get an email showing me a much better or improved way to do the same job days later is what always seems to happen.

IF these types of offers started including products just released and current then it would be a "no brainer".

Wasting time with these firesales, and giveaway type offers just leaves many always behind the curve and wasting time with things that are yesterdays hot methods when they could be using that same time to learn the new methods and play with the new tools/systems while they are fresh.

This offer could be different, but I glanced at the sales page, and it didn't grab my attention at all or do anything to show me it was really a no brainer other than telling me it was one.

The copy wasn't interesting, the pre-sell email was lethargic and assuming a couple names drops and the word no brainer is all that is needed these days for my money and time.

When I did glance all I saw were a couple products I recognized as having been released awhile back and left the page right away.

Aaron

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[263779].message }}

Scott Woodside 15 years ago

The main problem? Calling the promotion a firesale. It tells me that I'm getting old stuff that people have already paid a lot of money for in the past. The stuff is all piled together in a fire sale because the creators of the programs can no longer command the retail price they at one time received for their creations.

So they lump it all together and try and try and squeeze even more money out of the consumer.

This is no different than what is done in retail marketing with tangible consumer goods.

Milk the pricing as long as you can, and then when every one stops paying for the merchandise, even at low prices....Sell off inventory to a liquidator. A fire sale is what a liquidator uses to get rid of large surpluses of closeout merchandise that was purchased for pennies on the dollar.

So what I'm trying to say is that if I see the word fire sale, I am going to do an about face and run away from this as fast as possible. I don't want to purchase damaged goods.

The items might be great, but the word fire sale tells me that the stuff is being given away because no body will purchase it at a reasonable price.

I was CEO of the third largest writing instrument manufacturer in the world for ten years, and when we had a fire sale it was for only one reason. We couldn't get rid of the product in question in any other way. we had tapped out the sales and milked the product for everything we could.

Just another perspective.

Call it anything but a freaking fire sale.
- Thanks
- 1 reply
Signature

Scott Woodside

The number 1 Choice for Audio Production!
Member, Screen Actor's Guild
http://www.scottwoodside.com
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[264995].message }}
- chloe707 15 years ago
  
  Very interesting to read others' reactions to this launch. My inbox was flooded with this promotion so I was keen to read the general reaction and found this thread. Personally, I found that the copy was very long and too many products were involved in the promotion - gave the impression of "too good to be true" or "a bunch of outdated products".
  
  Thanks
  
  1 reply
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[265081].message }}
  
  Lance K 15 years ago
  
  What was the offer???
  
  Thanks
  
  1 reply
  
  Signature
  
  "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
  ~ Zig Ziglar
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[265104].message }}
  
  Lance K 15 years ago
  
  Personally, I don't like the offer. And that's putting it nicely.
  
  Information overload.
  
  A confused prospect never buys.
  
  Where does one begin with all that stuff? To me it looks like a $97 ticket to frustration, which in turn will lead to all that stuff sitting on someone's hard drive.
  
  Just because something is a good monetary value doesn't make it a good offer.
  
  Frankly, I was surprised to see some of the names that participated. I get that it's exposure to your brand. But if the package can't convert higher than .25% as a whole, doesn't that imply something about the quality of your product? Maybe not, but the perception could be there? Is there any amount of exposure that is worth that perception?
  
  I don't know if there is a story behind this firesale that I'm missing, but in my opinion the offer totally missed the mark.
  
  I'd wager a guess that the conversion rate would improve by rewriting the copy and restructuring the offer to an "a la carte" type deal where you can pick 5 of the products (or whatever) for $97. Not only would that increase the percieved value, and create a sense of commitment and consistency toward the products that they choose, BUT also leave open the possibility to offer an UPSELL (perhaps 3 more choices for $37 or something).
  
  And I'd also include 2 or 3 real world testimonials for each product in a manner that sticks out and humanizes each product and it's potential for the prospect.
  
  With the current offer I'd also lose all bonuses and make a point of it. Sell the fact that you're not offering bonuses. If they aren't sold on $9670 value for $97, a couple of bonuses are NOT going to push them over the edge. They just add to the clutter in the current offer. However, you could bring some perceived value back to the bonuses if you use the pick 5 type offer mentioned above.
  
  And my biggest reservation about considering your offer...
  
  you haven't given me a REASON WHY you're having the firesale.
  
  [ 1 ] Thanks
  
  Signature
  
  "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
  ~ Zig Ziglar
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[265173].message }}

Kevin Riley

15 years ago

My take on Firesales of any kind:

They're not targeted. There's a whole bunch of different products and it's not a targeted product. Very hard to sell.

I don't promote firesales, but I did promote my friend's wedding sale (after massive arm twisting, but never again). Roughly 300 clicks to the sales page and 1 sale.

IMO if you create a sale like a firesale, it would be much more effective if you targeted one small niche and all the products were related.

For example: Video Creation Mega Sale -- and you'd collect a number of good video creation related products (guides, software, submitters, etc).

[ 3 ] Thanks
2 replies

Signature

Kevin Riley, long-time Warrior living in Osaka, Japan

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[263801].message }}

JasonParker

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Kevin Riley

My take on Firesales of any kind:

They're not targeted. There's a whole bunch of different products and it's not a targeted product. Very hard to sell.

I don't promote firesales, but I did promote my friend's wedding sale (after massive arm twisting, but never again). Roughly 300 clicks to the sales page and 1 sale.

IMO if you create a sale like a firesale, it would be much more effective if you targeted one small niche and all the products were related.

For example: Video Creation Mega Sale -- and you'd collect a number of good video creation related products (guides, software, submitters, etc).

True Kevin.

For example, take all the affiliate marketing products and group them together on a sales page. Then target that audience.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[263949].message }}

Dean Shainin

15 years ago

Hi Jason,

Your post actually has made me feel much better that I'm not alone on this one. I'm not blaming anyone but myself for promoting it.

My thinking was that when you have every Tom, Dick and Harry promoting you get saturation but at this point I really don't really think that was the reason.

I'm sure there will be some that chime in and say they had great conversions. It's not over yet but I did not do another mailing after I saw my results. I even spent some time re-writing some of the email kinda Mass Control style. I had good CT's but not conversions.

I was shocked at my results to say the least. I mean come on. Lots of the big guns products are in there. Maybe just too much stuff for my list?

Cheers,
Dean

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[263986].message }}

JasonParker

15 years ago

Nah. We're not alone Dean.

I talked to a couple other guys with lists in the thousands. 0 sales.

It's crazy how much value is there though. Just not enough perceived value.

Originally Posted by Dean Shainin

Hi Jason,

Your post actually has made me feel much better that I'm not alone on this one. I'm not blaming anyone but myself for promoting it.

My thinking was that when you have every Tom, Dick and Harry promoting you get saturation but at this point I really don't really think that was the reason.

I'm sure there will be some that chime in and say they had great conversions. It's not over yet but I did not do another mailing after I saw my results. I even spent some time re-writing some of the email kinda Mass Control style. I had good CT's but not conversions.

I was shocked at my results to say the least. I mean come on. Lots of the big guns products are in there. Maybe just too much stuff for my list?

Cheers,
Dean

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[263990].message }}

Dean Shainin 15 years ago

Hi Jason,

Perceived value?

I'm wondering how much value someone needs.

I almost purchased it myself but figured how in the world would I be able to download everything. Maybe that's it?

There were a couple marketers packages I was ready to go after but I know I'd try to download everything to get my moneys worth.

Kudos to all those who put it together. I don't want to knock anyone or the sale. I was just simply mystified and figured my link was bad until I logged into my aff panel and did see visits.

Can I write re-write the headline and sub? he he

Cheers,
Dean
- Thanks
Signature
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[264014].message }}

lassitermarketing

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Kevin Riley

My take on Firesales of any kind:

They're not targeted. There's a whole bunch of different products and it's not a targeted product. Very hard to sell.

I don't promote firesales, but I did promote my friend's wedding sale (after massive arm twisting, but never again). Roughly 300 clicks to the sales page and 1 sale.

IMO if you create a sale like a firesale, it would be much more effective if you targeted one small niche and all the products were related.

For example: Video Creation Mega Sale -- and you'd collect a number of good video creation related products (guides, software, submitters, etc).

I think this is a great idea. I bought the product but really wasn't impressed with the "names" that were promoted. Just on a bunch more lists that I'll stay on a while to study. Other than that not a ton of value.

Thanks

Signature

Susan Lassiter-Lyons
http://www.LassiterMarketing.com
Have fun. Create value.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[265230].message }}

RC7000

15 years ago

Product isn't targeted.
Seems like some sort of jumble sale.
No FOCUS on USP.
I wouldn't download it if it was free.

[ 1 ] Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[263802].message }}

flnz400

15 years ago

I think real copy would have done much better (sales letter excluding the products). Maybe an image here or there,

Who wants to scroll down through product after product? I know I sure as hell didn't and I knew what I was looking at. I can only imagine if I wasn't familiar with half the stuff. Boring me does not make me take out my wallet. And I mean this in a constructive way for positive feedback. No disrespect to whoever put the offer together, copy, or design.

A compelling line or two that struck the benefit of each product might have worked much better. In fact, perhaps throwing in a bit of mystery would have killed it. Disguising it as the "greatest offer in history of IM"...."never before have so many useful tools been given away for such a low price."

Bullet points illustrating what you would be able to do and list a product here and there. "But those aren't all"!

After people purchased, they'd be overwhelmed with how much they received. "Talk about OVER deliver, that guy's the shizzle"!

The part about info overload still applies... dunno what to say about that one. lol

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[263808].message }}

Chris Lockwood

15 years ago

This is interesting news, since I got an email from them claiming a visitor value of several dollars, which would mean a high conversion rate. Not sure why I got that email considering I'm not signed up to promote it.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Comprehensive membership site training
My other blog

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[264006].message }}

Dean Shainin

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Chris Lockwood

This is interesting news, since I got an email from them claiming a visitor value of several dollars, which would mean a high conversion rate. Not sure why I got that email considering I'm not signed up to promote it.

Well, it sounds like someone is selling it. I got that email too.

Probably depends upon the pulse of ones list or lists. I only mailed to 2 of my lists.

Cheers,
Dean

Thanks

Signature

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[264020].message }}

Josh Anderson

15 years ago

Some of the products being offered are years old, out of date, and not very compelling.

Many sales are made on return visits and though the "wait you can't leave until you figure what button to click to close this" pops may have effect on the visitor at that moment using such is bound to reduce return visits which is where most sales will come from.

Your list may not be targeted... they may be tired of stuff that really provides no specific purpose rather than to fill a hard drive... they may not be very interested in web 1.0 bargain products from yesteryear piled up high with a light sauce of a few useful goodies mixed in.

Who knows what the reason is.

Personally my impression when reviewing the offer was:

1. Lots of old useless junk with maybe a few useful gems.
2. Lots of stuff that really does not work any more.
3. Too much to read through and nothing really compelling.
4. Ah crud what button do I have to click to close the popup correctly so that I am allowed to leave this site and go where I want to go? I'm never coming back to this site again.

There is nothing wrong with the value of the offer but maybe people are just looking for specialized solutions more these days rather than a hard drive full of ebooks they'll never read and scripts from 2005-06 that they'll never use and by the time they get done wading through the useless stuff anything good in the package just gets lost in blurry eyes.

That's how I felt anyway.

Too much junk, too much info to find the true gems hidden in the offer, far too long a page to read... and that stupid popup that tries to trick me into not leaving the site which does nothing more than make me decide not to go back.

If you are new... or tempted to buy into a lot of IM stuff you generally don't need just to check it out... then this package is a great deal. You will get a ton of value and get a good feel for what IM has to offer you without breaking the bank.

Years ago Russell Brunson and I were one of the first to do this type of cooperative offer and promotion in the IM niche. We called it the "Marketing Deal Time." Events like Marketing Deal Time, 12 days of christmas, and the first "Fire Sales" in IM lead to many other variations used in book, software, information, and service launches. Many events went on to be quite popular annual events and to this day we see people using this strategy effectively.

The benefits we designed in our Marketing Deal Time events went beyond the deal itself. Each contributor agreed to share their products with the other contributors. This was a great way to get to know the other marketers and many new JV and affiliate relationships sprang out of that.

Also only contributors were allowed to recruit 2nd tier affiliates and earn money by bringing in their super affiliate partners. Affiliates were only allowed by invitation. Sure the event was not quite as big as the one's you see today but the quality control was a little better.

We also required that the products must be retail products, not given away previously as a bonus or freebie, with a retail sales price of $97 minimum. Though not perfect it helped us to increase quality control.

During our second Marketing Deal Time we added complimentary services such as months of free hosting, ecommerce services, and even live training and coaching events after the sale to help the clients understand how to get use out of the massive package and put it to work.

I have to give props to anyone putting on a quality event like the one being discussed in this thread. It aint easy... especially if you employ some level of quality control and it does provide a high level of value.

But the appeal is generally to those who are relatively new to IM and have the time to spend wading through the tens of thousands of pages of new instructional material, the dozens of mebership sites, the dozens of software applications and new and out of date scripts and solutions.

If your target market is the new and inexperienced or the compulsive IM purchaser then this is the right type of package.

But if your client base is mostly professionals with existing businesses looking for specific specialized information and training on subjects you usually publish on...

Then the response will not be that great.

I stopped promoting these type of events long ago because my client base has evolved from the "make money on the net" newbie a majority of seasoned experienced professionals outside of the "make money" niche. They do not respond well to these offers at all because they know what they want and need and seek only that.

[ 3 ] Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Nanacast Review

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[264021].message }}

tiger325 15 years ago

I chose not to promote it due to the sales copy
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[264234].message }}

Easy_Money

15 years ago

First, I want to say that the package appears to be great! There are a lot of good products in there. A few are only so-so, but most appear to be good products. Additionally, I have to give props for taking the the time to put all of this together. It certainly couldn't have been an easy feat. Congratulations on your success with this!

Although ...

I fully understand what is being said about the sales copy. In many cases tweaking the sales letter or driving more targeted traffic is obviously the answer. I think the copy was written with a little less care than usual because the value for the money is so blatantly obvious, or should be.

Personally, I don't think the sales letter was so much the problem. I believe it was more the prelaunch and timing in terms of economic conditions and holidays.

Personally, I was aggravated by the prelaunch. We were told how all these excellent marketers would be giving away their great products. What products? What marketers? I went to the prelaunch page and saw a half dozen products, and a long list of marketers. I didn't know who most of them were, let alone what their products were. That was aggravating and frustrating.

Did it create curiousity? yes. Was it the right kind? not for me. I was already aggravated. I went to the sales page to see what was being offered, but was already aggravated and put off by the prelaunch tactic used. Is that what stopped me from buying? no. it did create another hurdle for them to overcome though.

Instead, I think perhaps they should have either told us what products were being sold (not the best prelaunch tactic, curiousity wise anyways), or maybe given us some links to the marketers' blogs. They could have opened on a new window. The links could have been given after opting-in. This would have allowed us to learn more about the marketers effortlessly. We then would have been more comfortable with the products when they were listed. Additionally, we could have visited the blogs, learned of all the products, and our curiousity would have be raised by wondering which product from that marketer was going to be included. I believe that would have created more curiousity with a positive approach. "Oh! I hope that's the product that will be included in the firesale! I can't wait to see! If it is, that would be worth the money right there!"

When we got there... "Oh. Not the product I thought, but man! That is still a good product, and I am getting all of these too!"

The difference is that our own hope would have pre-conditioned us to buy better than just hearing, "This is going to be an unbelievable package! Wait until you see this!"

Is this the entire reason that I didn't buy? no. I didn't buy because my stock portfolio is taking a hit, my day job is uncertain, Christmas is around the corner, and Black Friday is a week and half away. $100 saved ... but I can also buy several gifts on Black Friday with that $100. I might be able to get 4-5 people off my list with that money.

These products will be available later, and I can buy only the products that appeal to me. If I wait until after Christmas, I can probably get a rehashed version of the products that I want out of that sale for $7. Now I have the products that I need, likely at even more savings, and I made 4-5 people on my Christmas list happy.

Anyways... that's my long, drawn-out $.02 as a buyer from a slight marketing perspective.

A lot to learn from this launch!

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[264481].message }}

AverageGuy

15 years ago

the sales page is just too long. i do not have enough patience to finish it. and there is no focus. each products are given almost equal space in the page, and when I scrol down to the bottom, I can not remeber which one makes me want to buy. so, I just leave the page.

david

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[264550].message }}

Alan Petersen

15 years ago

Hey bud,

I agree with the others that the copy was underwhelming and just down-right boring for as long as it was. If it's going to be a long sales letter--they should at least keep it interesting. I didn't make it all the way down--makes it hard to hit the order button when that happens.

I also didn't like the site design look and feel. It's an okay look for a giveaway but not for this type of site. Just looked cheapy.

As Josh wrote, some of the stuff was old, old, old. And as Kevin wrote this stuff was all over the place. To pay $97 for a few of the items is bit much when I'll get stuck with a bunch of stuff I do not want.

The email/tweets for this came quick and fast. He got a lot of people to promote this so I was impressed with that. But I think a lot of people got annoyed with the site. I read a few tweets complaining about it. So I think the launch of this was poorly planned to boot.

The products, design, and site navigation is one of the reasons I did not promote this myself. I didn't think my lists would like it.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

The Asset - My CIA Thriller Fiction Book For Your Kindle
Fictive Universe - Internet Marketing for Fiction Writers

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[264622].message }}

Kevin Riley

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Alan Petersen

And as Kevin wrote this stuff was all over the place.

Just to clarify, I didn't single out this firesale. I mean ALL firesales. I haven't seen one yet where I would purchase.

Maybe that's just because I've never been a bargain bin buyer. I'd much rather pay $97 for one tool that does the job I need it for, than $97 for a 100 products that I don't know if I'll ever use.

[ 2 ] Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Kevin Riley, long-time Warrior living in Osaka, Japan

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[264647].message }}

lpstoops

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Kevin Riley

Just to clarify, I didn't single out this firesale. I mean ALL firesales. I haven't seen one yet where I would purchase.

Maybe that's just because I've never been a bargain bin buyer. I'd much rather pay $97 for one tool that does the job I need it for, than $97 for a 100 products that I don't know if I'll ever use.

I'm on board with this philosophy 100%. I've seen my fair share of 'bargain' sales for a whole lot of products I don't really need, and will never even do anything with. I'll admit that when I started out I would purchase stuff like this with great intentions of follow through, but never managed to make a move.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

See any website's Adwords keywords while browsing Google in real-time. Get it FREE here!
* Free Training Videos: Increase Your Internet Marketing Sales OVERNIGHT *
Follow me on Twitter
FREE APPLE COMPUTER

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[266546].message }}

Martin Luxton 15 years ago

When I started out I bought Firesale style promotions but not now so maybe people with a higher level of newbies on their list are doing better.

I didn't actually get to the offer. I just saw a spate of emails saying 100 internet marketers had been robbed (yeah, right!) and after that deleted any email with the words "100 marketers".

There was a thread a while back about affiliates adding value to their promotion and maybe Vance could have vetted their mailouts to make sure they added their own twist. Too many people emailing the standard subject line and it looks too much like a bandwagon (see Allen's first reply to thread about CPA being hot next year http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...nd-2009-a.html ).

Martin
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[266585].message }}

mudmat

15 years ago

When I first saw the prelaunch which is the guessing value the whole package, it was great. Maybe I can win the package.

But the follow up emails after doesn't seem interesting. I don't know why. I was not tempted to open it.

The only time I open an email regarding the firesale was the email from Alok Jain. He offered some bonuses so I click on the link to see the whole package and the sales letter doesn't seem to do its job.

I scroll down to look at the products available and look at the price and then close the browser.

That is my take on the biggest firesale.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[264639].message }}

Jason Pereira

15 years ago

Quick question - to anyone that bought this, do you have to opt in to all the lists of the marketers to get their products?

I'm probably going to purchase this, not necessarily because I want to learn how to MMO (although I'm sure there'll be some things which I didn't know), but because a lot of these products were shit hot sellers, even if they are a few months old and I could learn a lot from how they were packaged etc. But if you have to opt in about 50 times, I can't be arsed. Thanks to anyone that answers this

As for why it did poorly... the copy wasn't *that* great, but I think it would have sold better if the product list was dropped to about ten, the features of each listed better. People think information overload, they're not going to buy it and will probably 'waste' their money on ten eBooks at $10 even if the information in them is crap.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[264652].message }}

James Schramko

15 years ago

I did not promote it nor buy it.

The LAST thing marketers need is overwhelm. How many posts on Info overload do you need to read to know the answer to this?

One high value product with one specific purpose without all the crap will out pull it all day long.

I built a blog while all that hoopla was going on and unsubscribed from the last few bandits who have no respect for my time.

Thanks

Signature

This is where you get real information (backed up by proven results)

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[264654].message }}

Frank Ayres

15 years ago

I know this sounds crazy but i think there are too many products.
I started going through the sales page and thought it looked amazing but after i got half way through i gave up and got bored.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[264694].message }}

Matt James 15 years ago

You know, I feel sorry for John if he wrote this, that's a damn hard sales letter to write simply because the offer is just not compelling. Each individual product becomes instantly devalued because it's bundled together with others like some clearance sale.

I mean...who needs all that crap?

If you want to learn copy buy a course on writing copy, if you need an SEO course, go and buy that...but who wants everything and the kitchen sink all at once?

You know you'll never get round to using any of it.
- Thanks
- 1 reply
Signature

Conversion Gods
Delicious Sales Copy
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[264726].message }}
- Matt James 15 years ago
  
  I know this sounds crazy but i think there are too many products.
  
  That's not crazy at all, that's exactly why it flopped.
  
  Thanks
  
  Signature
  
  Conversion Gods
  Delicious Sales Copy
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[264727].message }}

milan

15 years ago

The discount that lady in the pop up gives is amazing. She's willing to sell it to you for $97. So, either buy it for $97 retail or get your discount and pay $97. So much about the quality of the copy.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

New Underground Traffic Tool!! WSO - You Haven't Seen This!

Instant Article Wizard Alternative for $7 ahhhhh!

Automatic Article Submitter

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[264912].message }}

Sandor Verebi

15 years ago

Hi Everyone,

First of all I apologise to my fellow Warriors and marketers for what I didn't buy this product, though enough people urged me. I've got 74 emails from 27 people together in phase of prelauch and launch. I got email from MH even today asked for me express my opinion on the product.

Please, don't get me wrong, but because of my engagement, unfortunately I cannot write to everybody separately. No, I am not conceited, I have to manage my time well only. It will be short because the essence was related by my fellow Warriors before me already.

First I congratulate Vince on this product, it invested much work and time certainly his compilation. Praiseworthy zeal and work, Vince deserves thanks for this. And the result would be better than this.

I only used to buy a product if
- the emails don't get excited me at prelaunch and than the copy don't disappointed me at the launch
- the sales copy convinces me about the benefit of the shopping
- the copy and popups are not boring and annoying
- the copy contains description and image about the products interest me
- the product implies enough novelties (I'm online for three years, so I saw one or two things already)
- it is targeted to my objectives
- it isn't distract me far and wide
- it is not at my disposal yet (I've 30 gigabite collecting dust on my HDs)
- I'll apply it in the short time
- it gives specialized solutions to these days

Unfortunately, all these cannot be referred onto this 'Biggest Firesale' product. May be next time, fellows.

This is my 0,2 cents.

- Sandor

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[265260].message }}

Stanley Tang

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Stanley Tang

Interestingly enough...

I'm currently averaging almost $5 per VISITOR... so roughly a 10% conversion rate.

So yes, it depends on the way YOU promote it. If you simply copy and paste the promo emails, don't add your own personal touch to it, and not include a bonus, then obviously you won't get a high conversion rate. Personalization and bonuses actually DO make a difference.

And no, I am not a guru or any big name. Just a 16 year old

So I am just like you guys trying to compete against all the big guns like Joel Comm, Ian del Carmen and Simon Hodgkinson.

Originally Posted by VinceTan

Hi everyone,

As the organizer, i should address some of the things mentioned here

I do admit that the copy can be improve further. Which we are making
changes every day. But huge changes shortly.

Right now we are doing at this figure.

Average Value Per Visitor = $3.30 (max : $5.30) sorry Stanley please do better

Average Commission Per Visitor = $1.65
Average spent per customer = $160.00
Average commission per customer = $80.00

Upsell is converting at 40% and sub-upsell converting at 100%.

We are doing close to 6 figure shortly.

Appreciate all your valuable input. We are working round the clock to improve it

Thanks again Warriors for the constructive feedbacks.

Again the objective is to give great value in this package which like everyone says, truly a no brainer. 1 or 2 item from from this would have justify the cost of the entire package. so everything else is a bonus

Did some tweaking and I'm now doing $12.64 PER VISITOR from promoting your firesale launch

This just goes to show that it really depends on HOW YOU PROMOTE this product... and know how to drive TARGETED traffic to your affiliate links.

So you can't really be complaining about low conversion rates. The salesletter DOES convert; it just depends on whether or not you know how to drive targeted traffic and do affiliate marketing

Thanks
2 replies

Signature

eMillions: Behind-The-Scenes Stories of 14 Successful Internet Millionaires
Get Your Copy of The #1 Best-Seller Now At Amazon For $13.57

http://www.emillionsbook.com

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[265277].message }}

EdmundLoh

15 years ago

Wow, a second thread about the Biggest Firesale. Vince sure did something to get his event acknowledged here, whether for good or bad, it's an achievement I'd say. ;-)

After reading in between the lines in this thread, I learned that most of the Warrior members have genuine concern and good intentions for Vince, which I'm sure he must have picked up really good pointers on making his Firesale event better by now.

On the other hand, I can also see a small number of people just ranting away. LOL

(for the rest of this post it's for the promotion partners of the event and also Internet Marketers, not the prospective buyers since I'll let Vince address that himself.)

Okay folks, here's the thing: when I showed Vince this thread, he confessed to me he felt somewhat demoralized. I'd probably had been if I were in his shoes too, after working hard on this for over 4 months.

Contacting 200 people to get together for this event? NOT EASY. Not many people have the guts to email some of the top names, and fewer actually secured a deal successfully. Yet Vince stepped out of the comfort zone and was able to get more than 110 people to work together on this.

I know many other people might not care less about this and think, "What's in it for me?" and that's perfectly valid too. The positive thing I see in this thread is, if not for this thread of constructive criticism Vince would never be able to figure out how he could improve his sale further and also his future launches.

It took a little convincing him over the phone of course, lol (like I said, if it were to happen to me I bet I would be demoralized too). I'm sure Vince has everyone to thank for and is working on making the event better so that more affiliates can stand a chance to earn.

Then I could also see a minority of people who are just ranting away - the Firesale isn't converting for me, Firesales are bad, it's a flop, etc.

While not mentioning names, here are a couple of things to think about:

1. As an affiliate, just because it doesn't convert well for you doesn't mean the same results represent to others. Having done quite some launches by now, I found the 80/20 rule applies to affiliates as well i.e. the top 20% will make 80% of the money. It happens all the time.

As a JV Partner myself, promoting this package is admittedly a challenge too, with people like Ian del Carmen, Jeremy Gislason, Simon Hodgkinson, Shawn Casey, Joel Comm, and others in, and they have some of the best deals out there.

Heck, when I was promoting a package a week before that I truly believed was awesome, and I had... what? 0 sales? Damn, that was embarrassing since it's not happened to me in a long time. But does that mean the package was bad? It sold out ahead of schedule.

I understand I lost because my competitors had beaten me with better deals. Fair and square. I don't go Twit-ranting on why the conversions flop.

JayXtreme took the words right out of my mouth:

Just because it didn't convert for every single person's list.. does NOT mean it is not converting well to targeted lists

peace

Jay

2. Quoting Dr. Mani:

btw, it's interesting how everyone assumed the firesale is NOT doing well... have you spoken with Vince about it? I haven't, but am
just curious about how that bit was taken for granted!

Dr. Mani's question was what came across my mind too. So did anyone ask how Vince is doing? I got word from him he's only a few Ks away from approaching the $100K mark. "Not doing well", huh? :-)

Admittedly, it didn't meet Vince's personal expectations and for the term "Biggest Firesale" I know many of us were expecting more too. But think about it: how many people overall, or how many people in this thread, have made $100,000 in a few days? I know there's some no doubt and if you did this successfully before, you'll know it's no walk in a park.

So to assume that the Firesale is doing badly just because it's not converting well for the individual affiliate is really skewed thinking. Take into consideration that your competitors out there are making better offers to the prospects and they're stepping out of the comfort zone, breaking out of the norm to deliver more value vs. just a 'copy and paste' mail with no edit.

All in all? While Vince's Firesale is not without its problems and definitely not perfect, there's *a lot* to be learned from Vince's Firesale launch from an Internet Marketer's perspective, which I am also taking my notes on.

Vince gets my props for having the balls to try something new and not conform to the usual standards set by others. No, I'm not talking about the Firesale model but rather the angles, marketing methods, how he negotiates, build the Internet Marketing Platform, etc.

Vince was aware of the risks... and the rewards. If he had never tried he would have never known. And neither would we. As far as everything goes, Vince is playing the Internet Marketing game as an insider and not watching by the sidelines.

-- Edmund Loh

P.S. I know someone just asked "what's the purpose of this Firesale?" While it's been addressed clearly in the sales letter itself that for a limited time only all of the marketing tools can be purchased for 1 low price, not many people are aware of Vince's secondary mission of this Firesale:

To prove and inspire everyone else that it can be done.

I know Vince right around the time he started out as an absolute newbie 'nobody'. It's been less than 2 years now he's in the Internet Marketing field and he's not only some of the best fast rising Internet Entrepreneurs I know in Malaysia, he's a BIG thinker.

[ 8 ] Thanks
2 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[265604].message }}

Kim Standerline 15 years ago

Nice post Edmund

Kim
- Thanks
Signature

The Easiest Dimesale Script Ever!!
EasyMemberPro is back with Mama
How To Write And Profit From Hot Romance (Kindle Product)
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[265861].message }}
Calvin Woon 15 years ago

First up, that was a great post from Edmund.

Yup there's certainly alot to learn here for not only Vince but also other marketers who are thinking of doing a firesale in future (including myself).

As a personal friend of Vince, I do know the tremendous effort he has put into making this sale a reality. Heck, how many of us have the guts and perseverance to pull off such a huge firesale?

It may seem like it's a flop to some, but Vince is honestly close to raking in 6 figures in sales. So how's that for a flop?

True the copy could have been improved, yeah perhaps not all products included are good. But surely he deserves abit more encouragement for putting up a package which is honestly considered a huge bargain for many.

Anyway, I'm sure this will serve to be a valuable lesson indeed.
- Thanks
Signature

[WSO Of The Day] 107 REVOLUTIONARY Conversion Boosting Tricks To TRIPLE Your PROFITS!
[1000++ Copies Sold] How We RAKED In Over $100K From WSOs In Just The Past 5 Months!
[WSO OF THE DAY - 500++ Copies Sold] How I Made Over $300K++ Buying & Selling PLR Products!
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[267110].message }}

mscopeland 15 years ago

I haven't read anyone's response to the original question but here's my take on it. It's really just 2 words

INFORMATION OVERLOAD!!!

How can anyone make any money if they are going through 150 ebooks, 500 hours of video, 300 hours of audio, and MORE?

It will be 6 months before they are done going through everything.

I have an entire Social Media Formula package, 10 modules, but I'm only releasing Module 1 right now. Why? Because I want my customers to BUY AND APPLY! Then take the next natural progression.

Information Overload is what keeps people from moving forward. YOU ALL KNOW what I'm talking about.

I can't launch this site, even though my product is done because, I don't have this red and green button, I don't have a good headline, I need to learn this copywriting method and that one too, I need video, I need to capture where they are coming from so I can use a script to make it seem like I'm close to them, I need a script that gives the same date, I need this script and that script, I need someone to create a bunch of graphics, I need someone to fulfil the order, I need to hire a copywriter....

NO, You don't need it all... You need a site, a product (yours or affiliate) and you need traffic... DONE!

That fire sale has so many things that contradict each other and shouldn't be used together.

Learn 1 thing, master, apply, then learn 2 thing, then 3 thing and so on.

When you focus you are able to move forward. This firesale I can see no one moving forward anytime soon.

It's like getting all of the books for your master's degree at once... Now dig through it and figure it out.

So, that's why I'm not promoting the firesale.

Man that was long winded!!! Tangent!

Sorry

Yes, there's HUGE Value there, without a doubt. But If I'm down on my luck or brand new, where do I start? Do I get 100 things and get overwhelmed or get stuff when I need it?

The stuff that's in the firesale is awesome, I just think it's way too much.
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[267014].message }}

spudzz

15 years ago

Surely firesales are dead now:-

- completely unfocussed
- too many old, rehashed products
- you just know that each product's going to need a signup (a real life-draining experience with all the OTO's and other garbage) and your email inbox is going to get bombed to hell for years after
- too many names you have never heard of, ever

In this particular instance there were WAY too many products on the page (the load time was a joke), it was just a 'load o' stuff', the copy was lazy and the last thing I need right now is working my way through a proverbial coal cellar of rehashed ebooks to illuminate the dark winter nights.

Time is short. It always is. This kind of 'thick and deep' marketing does no-one any favours.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[264913].message }}

drmani 15 years ago

The psychology and driving motivation for buyers of a firesale
is DIFFERENT from that of a more focused buyer.

Kevin put it into a nutshell:

I've never been a bargain bin buyer. I'd much rather pay $97 for
one tool that does the job I need it for, than $97 for a 100
products that I don't know if I'll ever use.

The mindset of a firesale buyer is a diametric opposite, and is
one that thinks:

"I'd have to be NUTS to pay $97 for this one product when I can
get HUNDREDS for that price if I simply wait for the right time."

For THAT buyer, THIS is the 'right time'.

And John, being the master copywriter he is, very likely KNOWS this
demographic and psychographic so well that he wrote his copy to
simply 'get out of the way' of that eager, price/discount conscious
buyer.

btw, it's interesting how everyone assumed the firesale is NOT doing
well... have you spoken with Vince about it? I haven't, but am
just curious about how that bit was taken for granted!

All success
Dr.Mani
- [ 1 ] Thanks
Signature

The Heart Bookstore | Buy a Book, Help a Child Live!
Email Marketing Tips | How To Focus Better | Time Management
FREE TIPS: The 33:33 System | NEW: PLF Review | 14 Day Review
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[264926].message }}

JayXtreme

15 years ago

Just because it didn't convert for every single person's list.. does NOT mean it is not converting well to targeted lists

peace

Jay

Thanks

Signature

Bare Murkage.........

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[264931].message }}

Mike McBride

15 years ago

Maybe more people have figured out that firesales are usually filled with past-their-prime products or hastily thrown-together "reports" that are just excuses for getting someone's email addresses to sell them more stuff they just don't need.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[264964].message }}

Stanley Tang

15 years ago

Interestingly enough...

I'm currently averaging almost $5 per VISITOR... so roughly a 10% conversion rate.

So yes, it depends on the way YOU promote it. If you simply copy and paste the promo emails, don't add your own personal touch to it, and not include a bonus, then obviously you won't get a high conversion rate. Personalization and bonuses actually DO make a difference.

And no, I am not a guru or any big name. Just a 16 year old

So I am just like you guys trying to compete against all the big guns like Joel Comm, Ian del Carmen and Simon Hodgkinson.

Thanks

Signature

eMillions: Behind-The-Scenes Stories of 14 Successful Internet Millionaires
Get Your Copy of The #1 Best-Seller Now At Amazon For $13.57

http://www.emillionsbook.com

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[264987].message }}

DaveLloyd

15 years ago

I bought it, but I was in two minds as to whether to do so or not.

I agree with Aaron Jones, Aaron Moser, Kevin riley and others. Firesales aren't great!

Dave

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[265027].message }}

VinceTan

15 years ago

Hi everyone,

As the organizer, i should address some of the things mentioned here

I do admit that the copy can be improve further. Which we are making
changes every day. But huge changes shortly.

Right now we are doing at this figure.

Average Value Per Visitor = $3.30 (max : $5.30) sorry Stanley please do better

Average Commission Per Visitor = $1.65
Average spent per customer = $160.00
Average commission per customer = $80.00

Upsell is converting at 40% and sub-upsell converting at 100%.

We are doing close to 6 figure shortly.

Appreciate all your valuable input. We are working round the clock to improve it

Thanks again Warriors for the constructive feedbacks.

Again the objective is to give great value in this package which like everyone says, truly a no brainer. 1 or 2 item from from this would have justify the cost of the entire package. so everything else is a bonus

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[265037].message }}

Kim Standerline

15 years ago

Hmm

Interesting thread and I'm please I saw it because I promoted this yesterday when I got back from my vacation and haven't got one single sale yet which for me is unheard of.

I'd even got to the stage where I wondered whether the redirect I was using was working. So it's interesting to see others are having the same problem. The bonus I was offering was a $25 discount on the price. (Seems silly offering more stuff when there is already so much there), so I was a tad gobsmacked no one took me up on it.

Having said that, I can see people have definitely bought simply by the amount of subs I'm getting on my squeeze page for Membership secrets. (Which BTW isn't old and outdated, it was rewritten a couple of months ago)

Kim

Thanks

Signature

The Easiest Dimesale Script Ever!!

EasyMemberPro is back with Mama
How To Write And Profit From Hot Romance (Kindle Product)

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[265099].message }}

Joseph Then

15 years ago

Let me see... I sent an email to one of my newest list. Only 400+ people.

20 clicks, one sale. Is that good or bad?

I think it really depends on each individual list...

Thanks

Signature

>> High Quality Solo Ads Starting From Just $22! <<

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[265448].message }}

JasonParker

15 years ago

Just for the record...

I didn't start this thread to knock anybody.

What Vince has done is impressive.

...And maybe there is truth behind this offer just not converting for certain marketers.

...Vince, I'm sorry if I made it so you couldn't enjoy your success. Congratulations.

I just thought it would be a good marketing topic of discussion.

Now I regret starting this thread because I probably seem like a jerk.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[266454].message }}

Karen Keyes

15 years ago

Originally Posted by JasonParker

Just for the record...

I didn't start this thread to knock anybody.

What Vince has done is impressive.

...And maybe there is truth behind this offer just not converting for certain marketers.

...Vince, I'm sorry if I made it so you couldn't enjoy your success. Congratulations.

I just thought it would be a good marketing topic of discussion.

Now I regret starting this thread because I probably seem like a jerk.

I definitely don't think this thread should paint you out to be a jerk! You totally weren't knocking the product, you were commenting on the launch (that's my impression at least). This is a marketing forum - where we can feel free to discuss and critique marketing efforts. As long as we aren't dragging names thru the mud (which clearly you did not),I see no harm in this thread.

I highly doubt that this one thread is going to make a huge affect one way or the other on the outcome of sales on the Firesale as well. I could be wrong but... the WF is great but not the end-all-be-all.

I am not buying the Firesale simply because it doesn't fit in with what I need currently. Every time the topic comes up though I'm kicking myself because I *really* want it, like a kid in a candy shop lol.

I hope sales go well, but at the same time I appreciate this thread because it reveals interesting aspects about the launch and the sales copy.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

When You Are Too Scared To Take Action...

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[266492].message }}

Karen Keyes 15 years ago

Also - Edmund I posted the above before reading your reply but I still think that Jason shouldn't feel like a jerk for starting this thread.

Loved your response though Edmund, you hit some very real key points. All I can say is I agree I agree!

And kudos for Vince - I'm nowhere NEAR to pulling off something like that. Vince if you read this - don't let stuff like this affect you or demoralize you at all! Everyone has opinions left and right but when it comes down to it, what's a handful of comments compared to the success of your business? Just get out there and whoop some more a**! (Cause that's one helluva firesale!)
- Thanks
Signature

When You Are Too Scared To Take Action...
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[266510].message }}

Josh Anderson

15 years ago

2. Quoting Dr. Mani:

Quote:
btw, it's interesting how everyone assumed the firesale is NOT doing well... have you spoken with Vince about it? I haven't, but am
just curious about how that bit was taken for granted!
Dr. Mani's question was what came across my mind too. So did anyone ask how Vince is doing? I got word from him he's only a few Ks away from approaching the $100K mark. "Not doing well", huh? :-)

Edmund,

Both you are Dr. Mani may have forgotten the context of the post that started this thread. When reading the responses you should interpret them as answering that post.

The question was why it was not converting well for the poster themselves not for "everyone".

I am sure it converts well for targeted "make money" and IM newbie types.

In other words Dr. Mani's "everyone" generalized statement about the replies in this thread is incorrect.

Not everyone in this thread posted about the overall conversion rate... I am sure none of us have any information on that.

Rather most who posted to this thread gave their impressions on why the individual who started this thread may not be getting the response they expected.

Glad Vincent is reading this thread because there is some great feedback for him here.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Nanacast Review

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[266989].message }}

EdmundLoh

15 years ago

The question was why it was not converting well for the poster.

At least that is the question I tried to address.

I am sure it converts well for those with the type of targeted list I mentioned for this type of offer.

Hey Josh,

The reasons could vary but if I am right to say this, many of the affiliates and other JV Partners are in for a bonus war. Yes it actually does affect the direction of the sales i.e. which affiliate is going to scoop most of it all.

In other words Dr. Mani's "everyone" generalized statement is incorrect.

Alright, I know what you mean.

Some people who have posted to this thread might develop an impression that the Firesale isn't doing well (and after reading in between the lines from a few posters as well) I thought I should let people know the magnitude of the launch before many others start 'getting ideas'.

Glad Vincent is reading this thread because there is some great feedback for him here.

Definitely and I'm sure he's learning a lot now. Vince wouldn't have been able to find out some more ways to improve if not for this thread, especially how to make as many people as possible make sales from the event rather than let it go to just a select few.

(though in my own opinion it could be the 'bonus wars'?)

-- Edmund Loh

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[267016].message }}

Jacob7

15 years ago

Thanks for thr info!

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[267000].message }}

Alice Seba

15 years ago

*If* I promoted a fire sale, I'd have to do to do it honestly. Ahem...

"Here's a bunch of Internet marketing stuff and some of it's pretty good, but most of it you'll probably never use. Even so, it's still a pretty darned good deal. If there's something in the list you really want and it works out to be a good price overall, go for it.

If you happen to be a newbie, you'll probably feel pretty empowered clicking the order button and you'll start downloading the stuff. It will take so long, you'll feel like you're doing productive work, but tomorrow you'll realize you're in the exact same place as you were before downloading it. Still not quite sure what to do next."

Anyway, I'm not surprised the conversion rates for affiliates varies so widely at all. Like Edmund says, we can make things sell if we really want them to, but at the end of the day...

....ah, I'll let you figure it out.

Alice

[ 3 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[267105].message }}

drmani

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Alice Seba

*If* I promoted a fire sale, I'd have to do to do it honestly. Ahem...
Alice

Great minds, Alice?

I drafted this email to use - and then remembered my self-imposed moratorium on
emails to my list this week... so if anyone wants to use this copy, go for it!

IF...

- you're the kind who cannot (or will not) pay $97 for a single
product, because you believe you can get dozens more for that
price at the 'right time'

- you're a focused business owner who can sift through a bundle
of goodies to pick out the BEST ones suited to your business,
and then implement them effectively

- you're the slow, patient sort of business owner who buys on
value, and uses everything systematically, bit by bit, and
gradually unleashing the power of a collection of tools

- you're cash-strapped and NEED to budget strictly, yet have
this aching dream to own IM tools that streamline your work,
and are willing to settle for 'older' versions if they still
are effective

... then this may be your best chance all year to grab a
HUGE bundle of products, tools, programs, even services -
for one low price.

The Biggest Firesale is Vince Tan's 3-month long effort - and
it will end shortly.

LINK GOES HERE

IF you get it...

- be aware that you'll sign up for multiple email lists, and
take precautions (use a separate email address, NOT your
primary account, so you can check it at your convenience)

- understand you'll be busy downloading a LOT of stuff, and
be prepared to organize your downloads and sort them in a
way you can take most advantage of

- different components come with different 'rights' - some
for personal use only, others with resale or PLR rights...
make sure you keep track of this

- you'll have to still work on the business you're building
... these products and services will make it more efficient,
but it's up to YOU to make it EFFECTIVE and profitable.

The Biggest Firesale is here - take a look:

LINK GOES HERE

If you do order through my recommendation, I'll throw in a
bonus - (detail the bonus here)

Your Name

.

All success
Dr.Mani

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[267286].message }}

Stanley Tang

15 years ago

Originally Posted by EdmundLoh

Wow, a second thread about the Biggest Firesale. Vince sure did something to get his event acknowledged here, whether for good or bad, it's an achievement I'd say. ;-)

After reading in between the lines in this thread, I learned that most of the Warrior members have genuine concern and good intentions for Vince, which I'm sure he must have picked up really good pointers on making his Firesale event better by now.

On the other hand, I can also see a small number of people just ranting away. LOL

(for the rest of this post it's for the promotion partners of the event and also Internet Marketers, not the prospective buyers since I'll let Vince address that himself.)

Okay folks, here's the thing: when I showed Vince this thread, he confessed to me he felt somewhat demoralized. I'd probably had been if I were in his shoes too, after working hard on this for over 4 months.

Contacting 200 people to get together for this event? NOT EASY. Not many people have the guts to email some of the top names, and fewer actually secured a deal successfully. Yet Vince stepped out of the comfort zone and was able to get more than 110 people to work together on this.

I know many other people might not care less about this and think, "What's in it for me?" and that's perfectly valid too. The positive thing I see in this thread is, if not for this thread of constructive criticism Vince would never be able to figure out how he could improve his sale further and also his future launches.

It took a little convincing him over the phone of course, lol (like I said, if it were to happen to me I bet I would be demoralized too). I'm sure Vince has everyone to thank for and is working on making the event better so that more affiliates can stand a chance to earn.

Then I could also see a minority of people who are just ranting away - the Firesale isn't converting for me, Firesales are bad, it's a flop, etc.

While not mentioning names, here are a couple of things to think about:

1. As an affiliate, just because it doesn't convert well for you doesn't mean the same results represent to others. Having done quite some launches by now, I found the 80/20 rule applies to affiliates as well i.e. the top 20% will make 80% of the money. It happens all the time.

As a JV Partner myself, promoting this package is admittedly a challenge too, with people like Ian del Carmen, Jeremy Gislason, Simon Hodgkinson, Shawn Casey, Joel Comm, and others in, and they have some of the best deals out there.

Heck, when I was promoting a package a week before that I truly believed was awesome, and I had... what? 0 sales? Damn, that was embarrassing since it's not happened to me in a long time. But does that mean the package was bad? It sold out ahead of schedule.

I understand I lost because my competitors had beaten me with better deals. Fair and square. I don't go Twit-ranting on why the conversions flop.

JayXtreme took the words right out of my mouth:

2. Quoting Dr. Mani:

Dr. Mani's question was what came across my mind too. So did anyone ask how Vince is doing? I got word from him he's only a few Ks away from approaching the $100K mark. "Not doing well", huh? :-)

Admittedly, it didn't meet Vince's personal expectations and for the term "Biggest Firesale" I know many of us were expecting more too. But think about it: how many people overall, or how many people in this thread, have made $100,000 in a few days? I know there's some no doubt and if you did this successfully before, you'll know it's no walk in a park.

So to assume that the Firesale is doing badly just because it's not converting well for the individual affiliate is really skewed thinking. Take into consideration that your competitors out there are making better offers to the prospects and they're stepping out of the comfort zone, breaking out of the norm to deliver more value vs. just a 'copy and paste' mail with no edit.

All in all? While Vince's Firesale is not without its problems and definitely not perfect, there's *a lot* to be learned from Vince's Firesale launch from an Internet Marketer's perspective, which I am also taking my notes on.

Vince gets my props for having the balls to try something new and not conform to the usual standards set by others. No, I'm not talking about the Firesale model but rather the angles, marketing methods, how he negotiates, build the Internet Marketing Platform, etc.

Vince was aware of the risks... and the rewards. If he had never tried he would have never known. And neither would we. As far as everything goes, Vince is playing the Internet Marketing game as an insider and not watching by the sidelines.

-- Edmund Loh

P.S. I know someone just asked "what's the purpose of this Firesale?" While it's been addressed clearly in the sales letter itself that for a limited time only all of the marketing tools can be purchased for 1 low price, not many people are aware of Vince's secondary mission of this Firesale:

To prove and inspire everyone else that it can be done.

I know Vince right around the time he started out as an absolute newbie 'nobody'. It's been less than 2 years now he's in the Internet Marketing field and he's not only some of the best fast rising Internet Entrepreneurs I know in Malaysia, he's a BIG thinker.

Wow.. great post Edmund. When I was creating my book, eMillions, I had to go out there and interview 14 people, and I can tell you it wasn't easy... let alone over 100 people.

More importantly, Vince has LEARNED from his mistakes and is constantly improving his sales copy and sales process. At first, it didn't convert well, but its doing better and better over the past few days.

First day, I was doing around $5 per visitor...

Second day, I was doing $12.64 per visitor...

Now, I'm doing $13.60 per visitor!

Thanks

Signature

eMillions: Behind-The-Scenes Stories of 14 Successful Internet Millionaires
Get Your Copy of The #1 Best-Seller Now At Amazon For $13.57

http://www.emillionsbook.com

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[267449].message }}

Josh Anderson

15 years ago

bonus wars

Bonus wars?

That's nuts!

As if the buyers do not have enough in the package to keep them busy making folders and saving files ;-)

The funny thing is that some people go so crazy in bonus wars these days that they cheapen their own products by packaging them all up and giving them away as bonuses.

In the US they ought to call these things "Stimulus Packages" and not fire sales :-)

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Nanacast Review

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[267117].message }}

EdmundLoh

15 years ago

Bonus wars?

That's nuts!

Josh, yup it sure is. You've got a valid opinion there. The results speak for themselves, though. Just look at the direction of where most of the sales are going in the affiliate contest. And I don't think the sales would had been more without the extra efforts the JV Partners are putting in.

So far in this thread, we're listening to opinions of mostly people who don't/didn't want to buy. This makes good study on Vince's part.

However those who have bought will probably think otherwise.

As if the buyers do not have enough in the package to keep them busy making folders and saving files ;-)

Odd I didn't hear that from my customers who had bought the BFS package through my link. But then, with a relevant bonus deal that helps the customer with digestion or giving more of what the customer wants, I doubt they'll complain.

This doesn't imply that 'throwing everything and their kitchen sink' is going to work, of course. I know it won't.

-- Edmund Loh

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[267148].message }}

Ian del Carmen

15 years ago

Yes, the BIGGEST bonus war!

Biggest Internet Marketing Challenge Internet Marketers Biggest FireSale is the reason...

As they say, if you're really a great marketer, you can sell ice to eskimos...

Ian del Carmen

Originally Posted by EdmundLoh

Josh, yup it sure is. You've got a valid opinion there. The results speak for themselves, though. Just look at the direction of where most of the sales are going in the affiliate contest. And I don't think the sales would had been more without the extra efforts the JV Partners are putting in.

So far in this thread, we're listening to opinions of mostly people who don't/didn't want to buy. This makes good study on Vince's part.

However those who have bought will probably think otherwise.

Odd I didn't hear that from my customers who had bought the BFS package through my link. But then, with a relevant bonus deal that helps the customer with digestion or giving more of what the customer wants, I doubt they'll complain.

This doesn't imply that 'throwing everything and their kitchen sink' is going to work, of course. I know it won't.

-- Edmund Loh

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

WHO IS IAN DEL CARMEN?

ADD ME ON FACEBOOK OR FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[270519].message }}

VinceTan

15 years ago

hi Warriors

I did not know this thread is active or else I would have replied faster. but things caught me up at the other end as well..

but anyway, no Jason, you are not a jerk

if you did not post this up i would not have learn to improve it further and I think it is good to have these kind of discussion to exchange ideas and information to learn from one another

But again like I said, it is true the performance varies greatly between one marketer and another in this event. I have made several mistakes here and there but again I think I have tried my level best for this for now

hehe next project will only get better. Nonetheless i must thank everyone for the support. no way it would have been success by itself.

Just to share a bit of background info (will share even more after the event), this biggesfiresale is not only to show how much money can be made with zero dollar (yep everything you see on the site is sponsored, including graphics, hosting, security seal, 4 months of negotiation

hehe ) also we are running on an internet marketing platform which i have gotten my team to develop 18 months ago because when i came on internet marketing world about 24 months back, i could not find something is good enough or something that encompass my vision of a ultimate internet marketing platform. So 6 months down the road I have pull a team and invested now 6 figure and 18 months into the platform. BiggestFiresale.com is the first BIG test for the platform and i am happy to say at this first major test we ran with less than 10 non critical bugs. so it is extreme pressure for the team and I because we had to make sure this is solid or else my reputation would be at stake if the system fail to collect order or credit affiliates correctly. Also another huge reason is because I wanted to have the 1-click-upsell and our own 1-click-sub-upsell technology ready for our partners/affiliates because this will make a big impact on the sales and it did. We are doing 45% conversion on upsell and 100% on sub-upsell. It also improves customer's seamless buying experience. But one thing to learn is , paypal outdo credit card form of purchase by more than 50%. so when we did only-credit card for first 1 hour, it was bad. this is something we are going to rethink and tweak.

Initially this project was meant to be for-fun test of concept and also to push myself and see how much of sales can be generated without any money upfront.

but it grew so large. this was actually an accidental project because i registered biggestfiresale.com 1 year ago after the SendUsTo.US Firesale (how many remembers that?

) ... and when it expired, i got notification and i thought heck, lets do this for fun

hehe... so from 30 contributors, the target stretch to 50 and then eventually 100. 70% of them i worked with for first time. and we pulled in over 1,000 affiliates in 4 months although percentage that are active promoting or made sales is minority.

Anyway will be pulling off this firesale in 3 days time as it will be too much of a stretch to extend this with price increase and would cause some issue to some contributors who are still selling the products they contributed.

It has been an awesome experience. We are looking at probably close to $150,000 in sales by the time its over. Although frontend conversion rate is not impressive. hovering at 2% but commission per customer has been increasing to now averaging at $1.85 per VISITOR because of the sales funnel strategy. Shawn Casey was so happy he emailed twice (he never send out twice unless it converts like mad). One thing we get a lot from customers is that this was truly a great deal. regardless of information overloading or not, at least they have more creative and freedom with the money spent on this firesale.

Again we are here in WF to learn and grow

constructive discussion will always have a place here. Thank you Warriors

[ 3 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[275259].message }}

JasonParker

15 years ago

Originally Posted by VinceTan

but anyway, no Jason, you are not a jerk

if you did not post this up i would not have learn to improve it further and I think it is good to have these kind of discussion to exchange ideas and information to learn from one another

Good!

...It's actually converting a little better for me now with the new headline and scarcity.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[276112].message }}

Asher

15 years ago

I don't think it will be a flop... things have only just started to get
interesting. I just looked at Alexa for an idea of how the traffic to
the site is doing.

Asher

Thanks

Signature

Asher Aw

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[267140].message }}

zoobie

15 years ago

wow per visitor increasing, stanley I don't get it? isn't that decreasing is better than an increasing figure? and actually can I set up a conversion tracker in vince thank you page?

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[269556].message }}

Kim Standerline

15 years ago

I think there have been a lot of positive responses in this thread, not least of all the very valid point that firesales etc can resemble a bit of a jumble sale.

Maybe a good idea would be "themed" sales, i.e memberships, affiliate marketing etc with all products just relating to that specific theme.

For the record, even tho I didn't promote again, I'm happy with the results of this sale, it's gotten me an awful lot of extra subscribers plus a few follow up sales from my own squeeze page. And to be honest, that was my main objective.

Cheers
Kim

Thanks

Signature

The Easiest Dimesale Script Ever!!

EasyMemberPro is back with Mama
How To Write And Profit From Hot Romance (Kindle Product)

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[275543].message }}

Mike Hill

15 years ago

Jason,

The one element of a successful launch in the Internet Marketing space is personal stock. Look at all the huge successful launches and you will notice every one of them either has a huge following because they commanded attention through great content or they aligned themselves with someone of this stature.

It's no one's fault that it bombed... I would try to increase personal stock through a ton of great value. Not just for a week but for as long as it takes for those that attach themselves to you and listen to everything you have to say to tell you they want to buy something.

That's were the magic is!

Mike Hill

Originally Posted by JasonParker

I promoted the Biggest Firesale yesterday. It's a great package.

Some of my marketer friends and I thought it should be a no-brainer.

Yet it's not even converting at like .25% for us.

Why do you think this "best deal of all time" is converting so low?

I've taken this approach to a similar offer and thought it would convert high before myself.

I listed product after product. I had rights to these mp3s featuring top internet marketers such as Mike Filsaime, Anik Singal, Willie Crawford, and some others.

Same thing happened.

Rock bottom conversion rate.

...I'll tell you why I personally think this Biggest Firesale is converting so low.

It's obvious for such a great offer that the copy was given almost zero tender love and care.

The products are just slopped onto the page one after the other.

Take a look and you'll see that a very small percentage of winning copywriting elements are used.

It goes to show you that even the greatest offer in the world flops without the power of a good sales pitch that digs deep into the prospect.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[282939].message }}

shayne54

15 years ago

When I read "firesale" I felt an instant loss to value of the proposition...almost like it "cheapened" the quality?

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[283284].message }}

JazzOscar

15 years ago

I must be on the wrong, or maybe right, mailing lists, cause I just became aware of this firesale through a comment to a blog post here in the forum. Just 2-3 hours left until closedown, I instantly started to feel that dreaded urgency. Feeling some urgency may be a great thing when it comes to your daily life functions, but not when taking business decisions as a customer.

Originally Posted by Karen Newton

-----
I was *this close* to purchasing,
-----

I felt like Karen,

Originally Posted by Pete223

-----
But you can sure imagine the workload involved to put all these products to good use...
-----

but then I started to think like Pete.

Originally Posted by Kevin Riley

-----
I'd much rather pay $97 for one tool that does the job I need it for, than $97 for a 100 products that I don't know if I'll ever use.

As time has passed, I've more and more come to the same conclusion as Kevin. I know of some products, with about the same or a higher price tag, that I might need in the close future, and they were not on the firesale list. Buying into this firesale now would have left me short of money for something I know I need.

Originally Posted by Karen Newton

-----
But in the end I changed my mind. I knew that I didn't really need any of those products - but even if some could help me (which undoubtedly there are excellent products there), when would I ever get time to devote to it?
-----
All in all, I still really WANT to buy it, but I'm "behaving" and opting out.
-----

So, like Karen, even though I don't doubt there are some excellent products in the firesale, I decided to behave. (I really think "behave" is a good word for this.)

Thanks

Signature

Oscar Toft

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[283935].message }}

Scott Lundergan

15 years ago

Just on a side note, I think this is one of the best threads in the warrior forum from a customer, marketer, research point of view from what each perspective brings to the table without the emotional mudslinging, but instead providing real feedback and value....(thanks guys!)

I myself have got a few gold nuggets out of this thread, so if there was a "thanks" button to all the posters, I would click it!

Thanks

Signature

Create, Publish, and Market Your Videos: Comes with 200+ Episodes and Step by Step Flowcharts (See Warrior Feedback and Reviews)

VideoProducerOnline.com - Concept to Completion Website Video Marketing Funnels

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[283957].message }}

Kim Standerline

15 years ago

I think this has been an excellent thread, shows how on ocassion warriors can have a decent debate without slinging mud at each other lol

Kim

Thanks

Signature

The Easiest Dimesale Script Ever!!

EasyMemberPro is back with Mama
How To Write And Profit From Hot Romance (Kindle Product)

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[284848].message }}

Chris Lockwood

15 years ago

Most people need a "flop" like this. Vince says above they did $150K, I'm sure he built a lot of relationships, partners got lots of subscribers, customers got lots of stuff for a low price... what exactly is the flop part?

The most interesting thing to me is how many people say they did not buy because there was too much stuff- you know you can choose what to download, right? This is like saying I'm not eating at the buffet because there are too many types of food to choose from- nobody expects you to eat everything.

If nothing on the page interested you, I can understand that, but if you actually found a few things that you would value over $97 combined, the logic of not buying escapes me.

Thanks

Signature

Comprehensive membership site training
My other blog

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[284971].message }}

Biggest Firesale - Conversion Rate Flopped Why?

Trending Topics

Clickbank low cost recurring

Been a while! Any of you Old Timers here?

How much does the rebranding affect CR ?

Are billboards still effective in driving customers?

Boat and Jet Ski Rentals...... Door Hangers Effective?