Why Do Some Insist On Imposing and Forcing Their IM Business Model Upon Others? [Head Banging]

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Recently, we have had a number of threads in which WF members with "GOOD" intentions proceeded to do the unthinkable and that is essentially impose or force their Business Model upon others. It has gotten to the point where some WF members actually troll the threads seeking to upend OPs and other posters if the individuals embrace Business Models that DO NOT mimic the Business Models they employ. I've seen people attempting to stymie and/or trash WSOs all because... the OP did not use their Business Model.

And to be crystal clear, these BMWs Business Model Warriors are deftly serious. For those who don't or won't employ their Business Models, watch out because the BMWs are going to attempt to make you think your Business Model, no matter how successful, is worse than three-week-old cow dung!

The sad part is; they don't realize they are engaging in this dastardly head banging deed.

A Business Model is the particular way in which a person or company generates revenue. In Internet Marketing there is a myriad number of Business Models. That list includes but is not limited to: PPC, PPV, CPA, List Building, FaceBook Marketing, Affiliate Marketing, Adsense, Article Marketing, Bum Marketing, Twitter Marketing, Press Release Marketing, Web 2.0 Properties, Fiverr, Traffic Exchanges, Revenue Sharing Websites, Podcasts and the list goes on and on.

Business Models also covers doing things manually, doing things semi-automated and wholeheartedly utilizing IMATs Internet Marketing Automated Tools. We could go even further and talk about Business Models in Offline Internet Marketing and Google Places and on and on.

Here's where some WF Members start banging their heads. If your Social Bookmarking Business Model is submitting social bookmarks manually, why slam, chide and literally berate the people who use IMATs to submit their social bookmarks? That's their Business Model, not yours. We get it, you don't submit your social bookmarks, articles, backlinks, Web 2.0 Properties, Press Releases, etc, using IMATs. You've made it perfectly clear that you choose to do things manually because... that is your BUSINESS MODEL! But, it is not the Business Model of those who "CHOOSE" to deploy IMATs.

We have people who have rejected Adsense as a Business Model. They swear one can only make peanuts with Adsense. So imbued are they with their beliefs, if a WF Member so much as asks a simple question about Adsense, these head bangers essentially hijack the thread and attempt impose or force the OP to reject the notion of ever succeeding with Adsense.

They emphatically implore the OP to forget about Adsense and most importantly, embrace their Business Model because their Business Model, in their opinion, is better than Adsense or better than Amazon.com or better than ScrapeBox or better than whatever Business Model they happen to be adamantly against. Here's what you need to know head bangers. Many IMers secretly engage in what is called Case Studies. A Case Study is...

A method of learning about a complex instance, based on a comprehensive understanding of that instance, obtained by extensive description and analysis of the instance, taken as a whole and in its context.
Ever heard the phrase, "Content is King!?" I put that Business Model to the test with some competitive Keyword Phrases on a number of sites about four years ago. In this case study, each website had ZERO content. All I did was put two banner ads on each site and did OFF Page SEO for the targeted keywords. Each of those sites rank in the top spot in GOOG. To be clear, they rank with NO content. Not OK content. Not Good content and not 3rd or 4th rate content but with NO content. Which means you are banging your head trying to convince me that content is king.

Duly note, there are Business Models in which, "Quality Content is King!" But there are also business models in which 3rd rate and 4th rate content is king. Arguing that point is moot because as I always say...

A man with proven Case Studies is never at the mercy of a man with an argument.
My sole point is this, in Internet Marketing there is a plethora of Business Models; which could easily mean the Business Model(s) you employ may be polar opposites of someone else's Business Model but you need to be cognizant of the fact that your Business Model is "A" Business Model and not "THE" Business Model!

It's sorta like ice cream. You love Vanilla and you "HATE" Butter Pecan. How does your angst against Butter Pecan become so deep that you feel a need to force all Butter Pecan Lovers to drop their beloved flavor?

I say we need to perform a Butter Pecan Case study!

Giles, the Crew Chief
#backlinks #banging #business #forcing #head #imposing #insist #internet #marketing #model #scrapebox
  • Profile picture of the author Istvan Horvath
    This rhymes perfectly with my daily wish that threads started with
    "what is the best..."
    "what is the most..."
    (any superlatives)
    should be deleted, banned, outlawed... capital punishment etc. :p
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  • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
    Some people have a vested interest in convincing others to do things a certain way. If someone is going out of their way to defend something, check the sig files first... sometimes that can be revealing.

    Others, however, just put the blinders on in IM (and most likely in other parts of their lives). These people are bad gift-givers because they give the type of gift they want... not the type the recipient would like to receive.

    Likewise, they might be bad at business because they can't take themselves out of their own shoes and see things from their prospect's perspective. They end up creating products that they think their prospects should want, rather than creating products that their market actually wants.

    Some of it is just ego. They start arguing a point in one thread, and it carries over from thread to thread to thread. The longer they spend defending a point -- the more time and energy they "invest" in it -- they less likely they are willing to let it go.

    Some are just naive. They believe almost everything is scam, and when they find one thing that works, the preach it because they genuinely believe it's the only way. (Though ego of course clouds that judgment.)

    Some of it is narcissim. The sun rises and sets on whatever they're doing. Well, you know the type.

    Those are just a few explanations and observations. There are others.

    Cheers,
    Becky
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  • Profile picture of the author jasonmorgan
    Good stuff chief.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by R Hagel View Post

    Some people have a vested interest in convincing others to do things a certain way. If someone is going out of their way to defend something, check the sig files first... sometimes that can be revealing.
    This is very, very relevant. Whenever hearing completely conflicting views about something, it's a good move to find out whether people are selling/promoting that happens to match their views. Financial incentives are relatively easy to discover. (Emotional ones are less easy.)

    Originally Posted by Crew Chief View Post

    I've seen people attempting to stymie and/or trash WSOs all because... the OP did not use their Business Model.
    Unless the person commenting has bought the WSO, any attempts to stymie/trash them, or even detract from them, are certainly not allowed, and the Warrior whose thread it is can report such posts for deletion.

    Originally Posted by Crew Chief View Post

    I say we need to perform a Butter Pecan Case study!
    Just a cappuccino for me, thanks ...
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  • Profile picture of the author IM Outsider
    The trouble for most folks is the sheer volume of info out there. Do this, do that, no not that way!
    Honest folks looking to earn online often fall prey to others selling dreams or an opinion. Not everyone intentionally leads people astray but good intentions can also lead to dire consequences.
    Sure take advice but develop your own model, method and strategy. Try to help others but don't blind them to all the options available.
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  • Profile picture of the author cashcow
    Yeah, that is kind of annoying. For me, I could care less if someone doesn't like my business model. I've tested most of what I do and I know what works for me.

    BUT, for people that are fairly new and trying to find their way, this could seriously derail them.

    I like vanilla and butter pecan.
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    • Profile picture of the author Crew Chief
      Lee, this statement you made is so profoundly true...

      Originally Posted by cashcow View Post

      BUT, for people that are fairly new and trying to find their way, this could seriously derail them.
      I'm positive there are noobs and struggling IMers who were on the right path until they got derailed by these head banging BMWs!

      Case in point, [and this scenario has happened more times than I care to remember] a noob WF member does not currently have the funds but he or she want's to get started in IM NOW! Since they cannot afford hosting they seek out a temporary solution until they can start generating income.

      They start a thread seeking info on finding some good Free Hosting companies and BAM! Here comes the BMWs armed to hilt. They swat down this person's Business Model to use free web hosting with a hot-blooded fury.

      BMWs are not beneath flaming, bashing and embellishing to drive their point home! They swear that all free hosting services are scams, don't work, go out of business within two days, yada, yada, yada, blah, blah blah... anything to dissuade the $3.99-less noob to give up on his or her Business Model of starting off using free hosting.

      They are such head banging BMWs that they never stopped to consider... maybe the person is eating red beans and rice while trying to make their IM dreams come true. Maybe when they say, they can't afford $3.99 at the moment; they really mean it!

      The sad part is, more often that not these head banging BMWs succeed at derailing noobs and halting those trying to get started in IM from true success.

      Originally Posted by R Hagel View Post

      Some people have a vested interest in convincing others to do things a certain way. If someone is going out of their way to defend something, check the sig files first... sometimes that can be revealing.
      Hint, hint, they may also be a BMW for a friend...

      Originally Posted by R Hagel View Post

      Others, however, just put the blinders on in IM (and most likely in other parts of their lives). These people are bad gift-givers because they give the type of gift they want... not the type the recipient would like to receive.
      Becky, Becky, Becky, surely you are making some individuals quite uncomfortable right about NOW!

      Originally Posted by R Hagel View Post

      Some of it is just ego. They start arguing a point in one thread, and it carries over from thread to thread to thread. The longer they spend defending a point -- the more time and energy they "invest" in it -- they less likely they are willing to let it go.
      Becky, psychologically speaking, does that mean they should let go of their eggo?


      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      This is very, very relevant. Whenever hearing completely conflicting views about something, it's a good move to find out whether people are selling/promoting that happens to match their views. Financial incentives are relatively easy to discover. (Emotional ones are less easy.)
      And, the scary thing is, when it comes to head banging BMWs, most of them are fueled by their emotions and never Case Study.
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      Just a cappuccino for me, thanks ...
      Cappuccino makes me nervous...

      Giles, the Crew Chief
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  • Profile picture of the author Diana Lane
    I totally agree. If we were to try to stamp out the methods and models of others just because they're not something we'd use or have had any success in ourselves (and if we were to succeed in eliminating them) all we'd be doing is short-changing end users by restricting their choices in how or where they find their products, services or information. It would be like a high street greengrocer trying to eliminate the nearby butcher just because he couldn't stomach handling dead meat himself, regardless of the fact that his cabbage-buying customers fancied the odd bacon sandwich now and again.

    A few years back, I used to have an eBay shop which sold aromatherapy and new age stuff. I also had a fierce rivalry with one particular competitor who I'd marked out from the beginning as knowing what he was doing, even though he did it rather differently to me. Nonetheless, if one of my customers came to me for an item that I did not carry I would point them in his direction and soon he was doing the same for me. Confident that I had their best interests at heart, my customers would return to me again and again and as far as I know, his did too. It was an arrangement that benefitted all of us. There really is room for everyone.

    Apart from all these oddballs that like ice-cream
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  • Profile picture of the author Fun to Write
    While people are passionate about their particular business model(s), you're right that there are no absolutes in anything. However, there can be a general consensus about the success or failure of any model based on the experience of many people.

    While people visiting here may read heavy discussions about a particular business model, I don't think anyone is forced to use one model over another. Ultimately, the decision comes down to each individual as to what model they choose to follow.

    If you have an online business model that works great for you, then all you can do is talk about your personal experience, and why it's a success. It's good to have various opinions, because that's how we all learn.
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    • Profile picture of the author Amber Jalink
      Totally agree.

      As was mentioned - people (especially newbies) are pulled in different directions, and if they themselves haven't experienced success in somethings but did earn a few bucks in others, they "may" be convinced it's the only thing that DOES work.

      The fact is, pretty much ANY legitimate business model WILL work - if you put the effort into it. And if its NOT working for you, then yes, maybe you need to rethink your business model, OR think out of the box to make it work, but don't insist to others "it doesn't work".

      This makes me think of so many of the biz opp programs out there. Since I run a newsletter, I get asked to (1) "review and recommend" them (NOT gonna happen) or (2) paid ads for them since I won't review/recommend them.

      It's often a case of "following the herd" mentality.... and when they don't succeed (i.e., say in adsense or clickbank offers), they say it doesn't work to anyone who will listen. If the biz opp didn't make them money, the biz opp doesn't work. (Yet others can make huge $ at it).

      But, in addition to looking at the sig files, for those that might not have one ( LOL), or its totally irrelevant to the topic, there's another thing to consider:

      Not only have they gotten their hearts set on "their" model being the only/right one - they "may" be convinced of that because that's what the latest "course du jour" insisted.

      I've seen it repeatedly.

      Think of those "death of email marketing" or "death of SEO", "death of adsense", or death of whatever reports.

      What's funny, is "IF" a person actually read the reports, the authors in most cases didn't say it was actually dead, just they way it was being done (aka: ABUSED) was dead, and if people didn't change they wouldn't earn with that method.

      However.... so many people DIDN'T actually read the reports, and just flouted off at the mouth that "it was said by .... George Expert" so it must be true...

      And just because "George Expert" said it didn't work (if in fact he did), just might mean that "George Expert" did it wrong too. :p

      But to apply that to everyone is totally unfair/wrong, I agree.

      Amber
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  • Profile picture of the author Rsberg
    I will admit, in a few instances recently that I myself became bothered (to put it mildly) by these BMWs.

    Originally Posted by R Hagel
    Some people have a vested interest in convincing others to do things a certain way. If someone is going out of their way to defend something, check the sig files first... sometimes that can be revealing.

    Yes, I have a sig file and yes I have defended my belief in my preferred IM path. Having said that I think it's also fair to say that just because someone has a sig file and just because they defend the topic that relates to their sig file doesn't necessarily mean they are mounting that defense in the hopes of converting others. The problem with this generalization is that every sig file you see belongs to someone who is passionate about whatever it is that’s there (in one way or another). I don’t have a problem with them being “passionate” (I am as well…to a point) but I do take issue with them purposefully bashing others methods or ideas simply because it doesn’t match their own. In those cases I think it’s usually pretty easy to tell what their motives are fairly quickly.

    In my particular case I’ve had to (or felt the need to anyway) step up and defend my chosen method against the BMWs attacks on more than one occasion. I seem to have developed a small “following” (if you will) of BMWs actually (it’s almost stalker-ish…LOL). I haven’t defended it because I feel it’s better than their method but because I’ve gotten sick of the exact thing that caused Crew Chief to start this thread in the first place.

    I’ve seen several blatant attacks recently and not only against my “path” but different methods as well and it’s gotten quite annoying. At some point you just want to “fire back”. I realize in most cases it doesn’t do any good, however, it can show the newbies (who don’t know not to listen to the BMWs) that there is always two sides to every “discussion”.

    As a matter of fact, Crew Chief and I commented (several times actually) in a thread recently that most certainly fits this threads topic to a “T”. I’m sure most of you saw it, it was ridiculous (won’t go there). My point in bringing it up is that thread contributed to and might have been the reason this thread was started to begin with.

    In the end…that kind of stupidity needs to stop. It does no one any good at all and as a few of you’ve mentioned it might actually do some serious harm if it’s not put in check.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Rsberg View Post

      just because someone has a sig file and just because they defend the topic that relates to their sig file doesn't necessarily mean they are mounting that defense in the hopes of converting others.


      For sure it doesn't necessarily mean that. Nobody suggested it did, that I saw? But equally, I think nobody can deny that it clearly raises the possibility far more legitimately than is the case if they don't have the sig-file ...
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      • Profile picture of the author Rsberg
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post


        For sure it doesn't necessarily mean that. Nobody suggested it did, that I saw? But equally, I think nobody can deny that it clearly raises the possibility far more legitimately than is the case if they don't have the sig-file ...
        You absolutely right (referring to the "possibility" part of your statement) but I would say the comment below does come dangerously close to suggesting it applies to ALL that do...which is why I posted that to begin with.

        Originally Posted by R Hagel
        Some people have a vested interest in convincing others to do things a certain way. If someone is going out of their way to defend something, check the sig files first... sometimes that can be revealing.

        My conscience is clear, I'm just very careful when it comes to categorizing people into groups of "all".
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        • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
          Originally Posted by Rsberg View Post

          You absolutely right (referring to the "possibility" part of your statement) but I would say the comment below does come dangerously close to suggesting it applies to ALL that do...which is why I posted that to begin with.

          Originally Posted by R Hagel
          Some people have a vested interest in convincing others to do things a certain way. If someone is going out of their way to defend something, check the sig files first... sometimes that can be revealing.
          Since that's my quote above, let me just clarify...

          I by no means meant to imply "all" in this situation. If it came across that way, that's my fault for not making it clear. However, I did use words like "some" and "sometimes" -- plus I listed several other possibilities -- in hopes of not implying all.

          Indeed, people tend to reply to threads that are directly related to their sig links... and there's NOTHING wrong with that. Presumably they're the expert in that field, so it would make sense that they'd reply to threads where they can share their expertise. They should!

          For example, if I have a question about domains, I hope someone like Suzanne or Gene P. answer my post... cause then I know I'm getting advice from those who've been there, done that. I may even follow their sig links to learn more.

          What I was referring to in my post are the same folks as Giles referred to in his OP... the sort of people who just run everyone over with a Mack truck to get their point across. As in, "this is the right way to do it and the hell with all of you!"

          That's what I meant when I referred to people "going out of their way" to defend a point. It goes beyond an expert sharing expertise. It goes beyond pleasant discussion and debate. Instead, it crosses into the territory of "shield the children's eyes cause this ain't gonna be pretty."

          Cheers,
          Becky
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  • Profile picture of the author invitetheweb
    It all leads back to one thing. Money. So many people are trying to outshine other IMers by sharing ideas and thoughts but in the end all they care about is if they get a sale at the end of the day.

    Dont deny it. There are only few people who actually care to answer your question without posting links to their articles about how their methods are bigger and better only hoping you click through there CB link and buy a product.

    Simple as that.
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    • Profile picture of the author johnmorales
      Originally Posted by invitetheweb View Post

      It all leads back to one thing. Money. So many people are trying to outshine other IMers by sharing ideas and thoughts but in the end all they care about is if they get a sale at the end of the day.

      Dont deny it. There are only few people who actually care to answer your question without posting links to their articles about how their methods are bigger and better only hoping you click through there CB link and buy a product.

      Simple as that.
      Thanks for posting that. My sentiments exactly. I'm new to this forum and new to this business.

      My sense is that there are a lot of people here who honestly want to help new people like me and others who have another motive in mind. It's the individual's job to make the distinction.

      You have to dig through a lot of dirt to get to the diamonds. In any event, ulterior motive or not, I'm still learning a lot from all of you and I thank you. I hope to be here a long time.

      Next time I post I hope I will have some knowlege to contribute.

      John
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    I love how you intermingle military terminology in your posts... BMW's and IMAT's...

    The vested interest is a common issue.

    For example, most people who preach how onerous the Duplicate Content Penalty is are usually selling some solution to solve the problem. Even though this can easily be shown to be a myth, those with a vested interest need the myth to be perceived as fact.

    People know I am in article marketing and article syndication, but I try not to spend too much time in article marketing threads. I usually hit-and-run on those threads, because there are many ways to do article marketing, and while my way is best for me, it may not be best for you.

    Even when I do marketing chats, I am often hard-pressed to talk about article marketing, because I never want to be seen as a one-track record or a one-trick pony.

    The bigger picture is that I can tell you how I do article marketing, but even with my knowledge, you can never truly duplicate exactly what I do.

    I suspect the bigger issue is self-importance.

    The need to be important is so strong that most people cannot possibly admit that their way may not necessarily the "best" way...

    In their mindset, "I" do this and it works for me, so "you" should do as I do.

    If I were a one-trick pony, I would only do article marketing to drive traffic, not the two dozen ways that I utilize.

    The thing is that every business model is different.

    You may be in the restaurant industry, but McDonald's is not the same business model as IHOP or AppleBee's.

    While you and I may share some similarities in our business models, no two of us will do precisely the same thing every time.

    We can be similar, but we will always be different.

    Really, there is no one "best" way to do something. There is only the way that you do it. If your way works for you, then it is the right way for you to do it.

    It really is that simple.
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  • Profile picture of the author jasonmorgan
    It all leads back to one thing. Money. So many people are trying to outshine other IMers by sharing ideas and thoughts but in the end all they care about is if they get a sale at the end of the day.

    Dont deny it. There are only few people who actually care to answer your question without posting links to their articles about how their methods are bigger and better only hoping you click through there CB link and buy a product.

    Simple as that.
    Quoted for truth

    This isn't a community, it's a giant flea market with vendors trying to attract your attention so you'll spend money at their booth.

    Don't believe me? Remove signature links and see who is still around a month later.

    Unfortunately, you have newbies who don't understand the game. Some who are shell shocked in disbelief. Those of us who come here to kill some time and chatty chat and those who know exactly what the game is, hence their weekly 1,000 word 'take action', 'I'm your friend and you can trust me' posts.

    Take a look at any forum marketing ebook and you'll see it alive and kicking, every day, right here.

    Caution: You're swimming with sharks
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    I'm all about that bass.

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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Giles, I'd come here and tell people my business model (how I worked 14
      hour days to get to where I am) and they'd all tell me that I was stupid, that
      my business model was inefficient and that I was running a poor business.

      Today, I spend most of my time playing video games and doing whatever
      the hell I want.

      Obviously, those 14 hour days must have paid off.

      I have learned to stop listening to what the BMWs try to tell me a long
      time ago.

      I wish that those threads in which all the naysayers told me I was a moron
      were still here.

      Sadly, they've all been nuked because they all got very nasty.

      Here is what I tell my students or potential students.

      "What works for me may NOT work for you. YOU have to find the model
      that fits YOUR personality, wants, and skills. There is NO ONE SIZE FITS
      ALL."

      Some get it...some don't.

      Some tell me that it's a cop out answer, that if MY business model was
      so great it would work for ANYBODY.

      Tell that to the guy who can't write his way out of a paper bag.

      You will never win these wars with these know it alls.

      So it's best to just ignore them and think what they want.

      I'm the one laughing to the bank each month.
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      • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
        Hey Giles,

        Thanks for saying what really needed to be typed!

        I <3 me them IMAT's bro.

        I.M. just bought me a BMW - but I wont be one :-)

        This is a classic OP. Let us all differ with a bit more civility eh?
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        • Profile picture of the author oneplusone
          The Forbidden Keys To Persuasion (Blair Warren)

          Hidden Addiction #6: People need to be right.
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        • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
          Howdy, Chief...

          We could go off-course and talk about the string of things you mentioned are actually Business Models, or whether they are a list of strategies, tactics and modes of operation. But I believe we'll all be better served saving that fun for another thread on another day...

          I think Becky hit on one of the big causes for the behavior you detailed, but not the biggest one. Whether their efforts stem from passion or from commercial intent, those with a logical reason to push one agenda vigorously due to money are fairly easy to spot.

          More subtle, and more dangerous, are the zealots. Unlike ice cream, Zealots seem to only come in three flavors.

          First, you have those who have finally had at least a small taste of success. Much like the newly converted or born-again, these folks are out to save the world and convert them to the way and the truth of Internet Business.

          Second, you have the seekers who have finally found their profit prophet. This prophet is usually the first stage or video presenter who looks them in the eye and tells them that their failures are not their fault, and that with the prophet's guidance, the key to the vault will be theirs. For $1997 and $997 per month...

          Last, you have the Mikeys. You know, like the old Life cereal commercial. Article marketing? Let's ask Mikey, he hates everything.

          If nothing else, your post has made me more aware of the need to overtly identify my opinions as opinions.

          Thanks, buddy...
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          • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
            Originally Posted by Crew Chief View Post


            A Business Model is the particular way in which a person or company generates revenue. In Internet Marketing there is a myriad number of Business Models. That list includes but is not limited to: PPC, PPV, CPA, List Building, FaceBook Marketing, Affiliate Marketing, Adsense, Article Marketing, Bum Marketing, Twitter Marketing, Press Release Marketing, Web 2.0 Properties, Fiverr, Traffic Exchanges, Revenue Sharing Websites, Podcasts and the list goes on and on.

            Business Models also covers doing things manually, doing things semi-automated and wholeheartedly utilizing IMATs Internet Marketing Automated Tools. We could go even further and talk about Business Models in Offline Internet Marketing and Google Places and on and on.
            Although I agree with your sentiment, I have to point out that most of your examples do not represent " business models."

            Mostly, they are merely advertising channels.

            It kinda gets messy when people are preaching their "business models" when they are not business models at all.

            Let's imagine you walking into your bank for a business loan, and the bank manager said "ok, what's your business model?"

            And you reply... " PPC, oh, and Twitter..."

            He'd laugh you out the door. Or he'll frown at you and look at his watch.

            Sorry to sidetrack your post, but I wanted to make this point as it's a fundamental one.

            I think that a lot of people struggle around here because they skip past these fundamentals...
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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              Originally Posted by Nick Brighton View Post

              Although I agree with your sentiment, I have to point out that most of your examples do not represent " business models."

              Mostly, they are merely advertising channels.

              It kinda gets messy when people are preaching their "business models" when they are not business models at all.

              Let's imagine you walking into your bank for a business loan, and the bank manager said "ok, what's your business model?"

              And you reply... " PPC, oh, and Twitter..."

              He'd laugh you out the door. Or he'll frown at you and look at his watch.

              Sorry to sidetrack your post, but I wanted to make this point as it's a fundamental one.

              I think that a lot of people struggle around here because they skip past these fundamentals...

              Nick, while you're technically correct, Giles' argument equally applies to
              true business models as well.

              Marketer A: My business model is membership sites.

              Marketer B: Membership sites suck. 70% of the people who join drop out
              after 90 days and you're constantly recycling members and never getting
              anywhere. You should sell ebooks.

              Marketer C: Ebooks suck. Piracy is rampant on the Internet. No sooner
              is your ebook released that it's being shared with every low life on the
              planet. You're losing tons of money that you'll never see. You should
              provide a service like copywriting or ghost writing.

              Marketer D: Copywriting and ghost writing suck. If you don't work, you
              don't get paid. You want a business model where you get residual income.
              You should get into MLM.

              Marketer E: MLM sucks. They're all scams. There is no real product and
              most MLMs get shut down in a year. You want to promote CPA offers so
              that you don't have to worry about actually selling anything. Just be the
              middle man.

              Marketer F: CPA sucks. The offers are all crap and many are illegal and
              if you're caught promoting them you could go to jail. You want to do
              something where you're investing your money, like Forex.

              Marketer G: Forex sucks. It's too risky. You could lose your shirt. Most
              people don't have a clue what they're doing. You'd be better off gambling
              at the casinos.

              Marketer H: Gambling sucks...

              Okay, you get the picture. Every person who has a particular business
              model who is a BMW swears that HIS is the best and the ONLY one you
              should be doing.

              Those who defend MLM to the death are perfect examples of these
              zealots. IMO, they are the worst of the lot. I am speaking from personal
              experience of actually being involved in MLM at one time.

              Never, ever again.

              Anyway, hope I made my point.
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  • Profile picture of the author dcmarketer
    lol Giles.

    "It’s sorta like ice cream. You love Vanilla and you “HATE” Butter Pecan. How does your angst against Butter Pecan become so deep that you feel a need to force all Butter Pecan Lovers to drop their beloved flavor?"

    Giles, you could very well be the Richard Dawkins of IM ;-0

    Best...

    Duncan
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  • Profile picture of the author eQuus
    Originally Posted by Crew Chief View Post

    For those who don't or won't employ their Business Models, watch out because the BMWs are going to attempt to make you think your Business Model, no matter how successful, is worse than three-week-old cow dung!

    Giles, the Crew Chief
    You must hail from Nebraska!
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  • Profile picture of the author JamieSEO
    Great post. When I first started IM I got bombarded with all the "you MUST do this" business model garbage.

    The reality is, I think any business model you want to use should be suited to your skills and lifestyle. Some IM's are great copywriters, email marketers, etc.

    If you suck at copywriting then using that persons business model usually means it will not work for you.

    I grab bits of different business models, throw them into a blender and end up with a "Jamie Smoothy" that I use for most of my stuff

    But hey - that's what works for me. I figure whatever model you choose to use, if it works for you then just ignore the haters and enjoy your trips to the bank
    Signature

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  • Profile picture of the author Mohammad Afaq
    30 replies and 34 thanks

    In these BMWs still don't get it then I don't think it's possible to teach them.
    Signature

    “The first draft of anything is shit.” ~Ernest Hemingway

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  • Profile picture of the author AllanWard
    You raise some great points. I see it this way - I'm a guitarist. I like a lot of different styles of music and a lot of different guitarists. You may not like some of the styles I like to play. That's fine. I probably won't like all the styles of music you play. It doesn't mean one is better than the other - it's just that they're different and appeal to different people.

    The danger comes where you try and convince people that your style of music is the only one to play. It's an argument you'll never win, and there's no point in trying to win it. Play what you want to play and I'll play the style I want to play. We may even find some common ground. I like jazz, you like heavy metal. That's fine. But when I'm talking jazz with my friends, don't butt in to the conversation and try and tell us we're wrong.
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    I do have the best business model.

    Run a profitable business that generates the owner a return on their investment.

    Every other business model is a variation of that theme.
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  • Profile picture of the author profitsforall
    I can't stand BMW's........... I much prefer Audis.

    Seriously if we keep this up, we are going to have an influx of car enthusiasts.

    When i was a kid i remember arguing with folks that that my BBC B was better than their Spectrum or Vic 20 (showing my age). These were all different types of home computer. Everyone was adamant that theirs had the best graphics, the finest sound (okay the spectrum probably didn't) and the best games. In reality all 3 probably provided equal fun for their owners.

    I just think as you get older the things you defend mindlessly change. A little more thought, before, during and after you post a response helps a lot.
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    • Profile picture of the author sal64
      As a life long BMW owner and afficianado, I find this thread offensive.

      Signature
      Internet Marketing: 20% Internet - 80% Marketing!
      You Won't See The Light Until You Open Your Eyes.
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  • Profile picture of the author celente
    I remember teh saying. What ever floats your boat!

    To the sense that you need to pick something, if it works for you great, keep going with it. If it doesnt work, try something else.

    What works for joe blogs, does not work for the next guy. So pick something that works for you.

    I wish someone told me that early in my IM career. would have save a lot of heartache.
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    • Profile picture of the author Crew Chief
      Thanks to input from so many individuals, the picture as to why BMWs do what they do and why they are so embittered with doing so has become much clearer. If you are a head banging BMW Business Model Warrior, we got your profile!

      Originally Posted by Rsberg View Post

      I will admit, in a few instances recently that I myself became bothered (to put it mildly) by these BMWs.
      Rsberg, to put it mildly is a monumental understatement indeed! IMers who perform Case Studies day in and day out and are doing what BMWs swear cannot be done are always, to some degree bothered by these clueless head banging virtual combatants.

      No one can aptly measure the damage caused by BMWs but the aftermath left in their wake is apparent in the number of individuals who gave up on a great plan and a great Business Model because they were dissuaded by these grossly opinionated yet ill-informed IMers.

      Originally Posted by Rsberg View Post

      As a matter of fact, Crew Chief and I commented (several times actually) in a thread recently that most certainly fits this threads topic to a "T". I'm sure most of you saw it, it was ridiculous (won't go there). My point in bringing it up is that thread contributed to and might have been the reason this thread was started to begin with.
      Yes sir, it was in part; additionally the impetus was seeing BMWs forcefully persuade noobs and less knowledgeable IMers of things like:
      • They should ONLY submit 1 to 2 articles per week or they will get deindexed.
      • Don't Social Bookmark because it produces no results
      • Google loves blogs and hates static HTML sites
      • Google hates automation
      • Google hates Blogger accounts
      • Google hates XFactor sites
      • Google hates Sniper sites
      • And yada, yada, yada...

      Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

      If they really mean it then the best thing someone can do for them is talk them out of their present plan of trying IM
      Robert, sometimes in life the path to success is filled with Red Lights, Stop Signs, Do Not Pass Signs, You Will Never Make It Murals and all sorts of other daunting obstacles.






      When a person REALLY wants to succeed, they will look at the negative circumstances, zero finances and towering brick walls and blast their way through to success in spite of the fact that all they can afford at the moment is red beans and rice. Or, is it black beans and rice?!!!

      Those are the kinds of individuals who get my ultimate respect!

      Originally Posted by johnmorales View Post

      My sense is that there are a lot of people here who honestly want to help new people like me and others who have another motive in mind. It's the individual's job to make the distinction.
      John, you nailed it! And I could state the names of numerous WF members who represent Esprit de corps in its truest since. They are here to help others succeed and when you read them you know it! No side tricks. No hidden agendas. No ulterior motives, just a genuine desire to help others.

      Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      I love how you intermingle military terminology in your posts... BMW's and IMAT's...
      Bill, the military will do that to you...

      Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      The need to be important is so strong that most people cannot possibly admit that their way may not necessarily the "best" way...
      Which goes right back to what Becky said about narcissism. I wonder, how does it feel to be a narcissist?

      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

      Sadly, they've all been nuked because they all got very nasty.
      This is what a BMW brings to the table; a level of nastiness that ruins golden nuggets of information for everyone! In many cases, when you see a helpful thread take a turn for the worse, be on the lookout because more likely than not, a head banging BMW is leading the way!

      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

      Here is what I tell my students or potential students.

      "What works for me may NOT work for you. YOU have to find the model
      that fits YOUR personality, wants, and skills. There is NO ONE SIZE FITS
      ALL."

      Some get it...some don't.
      Those of you who are new to the IM business or have been struggling at it, you just read words of freedom. Please note; it is rare that two Business Models are going to be exactly the same. And, most importantly, like Steven said, you have to find your OWN groove.

      Originally Posted by 4morereferrals View Post

      Hey Giles, Thanks for saying what really needed to be typed!
      Steve, you know one of my IMATs is the Backlink Energizer all the way! As Austin powers says, "Groovy baby!"

      Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

      If nothing else, your post has made me more aware of the need to overtly identify my opinions as opinions. Thanks, buddy...
      John, there are a number of WF members with whom I VALUE their insights, opinions, perspectives and business acumen, you sir are one of those individuals. That said, you just acknowledged another critical point BMWs adamantly and persistently refuse to acknowledge...

      The Business Models they are attempting to impose and force upon others are their opinions; nothing more and nothing less and the Business Models they bashing ARE NOT based on any Case Studies they performed.

      Anytime, I'm rendering my opinion, I always try and preface my statements or observations with, IMHO. And I never but never push to force my opinion on others and IMHO, that's how things should be.

      Originally Posted by Nick Brighton View Post

      Although I agree with your sentiment, I have to point out that most of your examples do not represent " business models."
      Nick, see Steven's comments below...

      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

      Nick, while you're technically correct, Giles' argument equally applies to true business models as well.
      Nick, the reason I placed a definition of Business Models in the thread from the get go, was to clarify to all parties, this is what a Business Model is. That said, what Steven said...

      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

      Anyway, hope I made my point.
      Yes, you did sir, crystal clearly!



      Like Steve A., said, drive a BMW but don't become one and for the love of red beans and rice, Vanilla and Butter Pecan Ice Cream and Cappuccino, if you currently are a (BMW) Business Model Warrior, don't remain one!

      Giles, the Crew Chief
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  • Profile picture of the author miavanru
    yes, i believe that there are too many cooks that stir the pot, per se. I think people should practice what they preach
    Signature

    If you want to get 2 free article rewrites, podcasts and video ABSOLUTELY FREE. Check my site miajones.wordpress.com/promos

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  • Profile picture of the author Bradley McK
    I think I am going to be more thoughtful of this before I post anything about someone elses business model.
    Thanks for the perspective.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rsberg
    Becky,

    I see your point, I guess I kind of took it to heart because I think a better way to put this would be...

    If someone is going out of their way to force (not defend) something, check the sig files first... sometimes that can be revealing.

    I've personally (on more than one occasion recently) went out of my way to defend something, which is why I took it the way I did. I think the distinction here is that when someone is "defending" something it's probably a direct result of an attack from someone who is "forcing" their opinion on others - AKA - "BMW"

    FYI to all reading this...(not directed at you Becky, LOL)

    There are actually BMWs (one I know of for sure, he knows who he is) posting in this thread and acting like they agree totally with what's being said here but have also been quite active in their BMW pursuits recently. Eventaully that double life will catch up with them...in my opinion...the sooner the better!
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  • Profile picture of the author SPMassie
    People love to preach and to feel like an expert though they may be misguided most do mean well
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