Open letter - What does constitute a "MAN?"

21 replies
I do not want to identify or give the "photograph" of the situation here.

But as you can imagine it has to do with something currently running
that has to do "something" with me and my brand.

I have seen people doing that in the past. That's OK.
It's good to have people mimic what you do.

But I am thinking...

When someone goes beyond the "acceptable borders"
- both legally and ethically speaking with emphasis to ethics.

And what one should do when seeing one walking across
those borders??

"Shoot" him down? (metaphorically speaking of course)
"Leaving him to his destiny" (since karma pays back - always)
"Call the lawyers?" (nah... or ...?)

As said my considerations have to do with the ethic part.


I was wondering what makes someone to be called a "man"
according to the Old School's marketing ethics....

The term of "man" here can be applied to women too as
the one that....

It's that "that" that I have not concluded yet....

Is it his tendency to be sincere?
Is it his habit to be a gentleman?
Is it the vision one carries and being straight with it?
Is it not saying lies to people?
Is it "not doing everything for money?"
Is it to have a good memory and give credit to those that worth it?

Or... is it useless and time wasting indeed to even think about ethics
in the New World - in the New Online Word of Internet Marketing?

Are we free to do anything we want in the name of the dollar?

Copy ideas perhaps?
Ideas do not bear a copyright...

Copy logics?
Even Gurus say "get something it works and make it better."
I can accept even that...

But I do not feel convenient if/when says that "Eureka!"
was spelt for first time by his own lips...

...because I KNOW that Archimedes said it first...
...thus making history.

I do not feel proud of dealing with Internet Marketing either when
I see ironed wealthy Gurus to "discover" (or should I say "rediscover")
the "revolutionary ways to do things online" when a fellow marketer
(actually one of the best affiliates of that ironed Guru) had first
introduced that revolution to people... and especially when the
"man" in promotion seems to be born today.

Without memory.

Because even 1 day of additional life would make him not a "Man."

Because "Men" have a memory indeed.
Men respect people and colleagues.
Men apply ethics in business.
Men do not cheat.
Men do not lie.
Men respect.
Men honor.


I have the desire to delete everything I have written so far...
I am not sure what's the purpose of this thread anyway...

I think I am talking to me.
Or to few - very few - "MEN" I met here back in 1997.
Those can "understand."

And that's what I need.
Nothing else.

In all cases the commercialization of Internet Marketing will burry
this thread to the 1234th page soon anyway...

However we are humans.
And mistakes are made by humans.
And this thread may be characterized as a mistake.
A Turbo Mistake.

Either a mistake or not, I just wanted to publicly declare that
I have NO association with ANYONE that believes he rediscovered
the wheel and also baptized his rediscovery with anything similar
to me and to my works.

And of course, I know that bad publicity is publicity so the
"man" will smile when reading these lines.

I'd advice him not.

That would not be a masculine smile.

Because "men" prefer to die instead of being dishonored.


p.s. I have no intention to follow up here.
Mods can delete the thread if you feel it offers nothing to Warriors.
However I have seen worst threads surviving.

p.p.s. .....
#constitute #letter #man #open
  • Profile picture of the author tomw
    You're not alone, John.

    There are still some "men" around...and we understand completely, everything that you have written.

    Your post was...simply beautiful.

    Peace to your soul.

    Help Us Rescue, Rehabilitate And Reunite Victims With Their Families

    STOP THE TRAFFIK is a growing global movement of individuals, communities and organisations fighting to PREVENT the sale of people,
    PROTECT the trafficked and PROSECUTE the traffickers.
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  • Profile picture of the author admin
    PM me some info John...I'm trying to read between the lines here but not succeeding :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author Pete223
    Originally Posted by John Delavera View Post

    Or to few - very few - "MEN" I met here back in 1997.
    Those can "understand."
    Hi John,

    I haven't been around since 1997, but I know for a fact that a lot of us here understand
    and sympathize with what you're saying...

    I see "MEN" here everyday!!!

    The term of "man" here can be applied to women too as the one that....
    Goes down with the ship...
    Fights till he can't fight no more...
    Doesn't know the meaning of the word quit...
    And understands why there's no "I" in Team!

    ALL with RESPECT and HONOR!

    I thank you for your post and leave you with a quote I read somewhere

    "Because "men" prefer to die instead of being dishonored" John Delavera

    Regards, Pete
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  • Profile picture of the author Ian del Carmen
    Sent you an IMPORTANT email bro...

    Ian del Carmen
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  • Profile picture of the author jacktackett
    Follow your heart John - what does that person in the Mirror say to you? You can never go wrong listening to that person's heart.

    To paraphrase a favorite quote I have - when I'm trying to decide what to do, is:

    All evil requires is for 'men' of good conscience to look the other way.

    Let's get Tim the kidney he needs!HELP Tim
    Mega Monster WSO for KimW

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  • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
    Not sure what this was all about....but, it was wayyyyyyyyyyyy deep.

    When Mike gets done I guess I'm next
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  • Profile picture of the author ExRat
    Hi John,

    Take a fishing rod and go and think about it and the answer will become clearer. Best wishes.


    What does constitute a man?
    Here are two possible answers -


    Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence.
    As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant, they too have their story. Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit.
    If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
    Exercise caution in your business affairs, for the world is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals, and everywhere life is full of heroism. Be yourself. Especially, do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love, for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is perennial as the grass.
    Take kindly to the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth. Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.
    Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
    Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life, keep peace in your soul.
    With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world.
    Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.
    Max Ehrmann c.1920



    If you can keep your head when all about you
    Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
    If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
    But make allowance for their doubting too;
    If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
    Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
    Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
    And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:
    If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
    If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
    If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
    And treat those two impostors just the same;
    If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
    Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
    Or watch the things you gave your life to broken,
    And stoop and build 'em up with wornout tools:
    If you can make one heap of all your winnings
    And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
    And lose, and start again at your beginnings
    And never breathe a word about your loss;
    If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
    To serve your turn long after they are gone,
    And so hold on when there is nothing in you
    Except the Will which says to them: 'Hold on!'
    If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
    Or walk with kings - nor lose the common touch,
    If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
    If all men count with you, but none too much;
    If you can fill the unforgiving minute
    With sixty seconds' worth of distance run -
    Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
    And - which is more - you'll be a Man my son!

    Rudyard Kipling

    Roger Davis

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  • Profile picture of the author hilltopview
    I am smoking JD's stuff - and it's good.

    As usual, John, you show some deep human insight. And I understand you.

    John Hill
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  • Profile picture of the author admin
    After getting some more info by PM I do understand, and it was what I thought it was.

    We're a different breed John, that's all there is to it. You have two bit scum suckers everywhere who will cozy up to you only to steal, copy and use you.

    It happens, all you can do is move on and keep innovating...
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  • Profile picture of the author UncleHQ
    Hi John,

    Go the Karma route - I have all my life - life is too short to do otherwise - shrug it off and the "men" that are not "men" - block them from your mind so they cease to exist - use your obvious talents to create and not think about destroying.

    I feel for you John - if there is anything I can do to help, please let me know.

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  • Profile picture of the author IowaGal
    Although I don't understand the motivation behind John's post, I could follow it enough to understand that he's dealing with one of those people we all do at some point in our career who lives off the hard work of another person.

    And for what it's worth, I feel for John; for whatever it is.

    It's not easy online - most folks do and say things online that they would never even consider spouting in public; which is unfortunate because doing the right thing often does get more doors opened for you.

    Whatever it is John, I hope you can resolve it.
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    • Profile picture of the author globalpro

      Good post and they say that expression (confession) is good for the soul.

      I would add this to the list of what a 'man' is:

      In the immortal words of Kenny Rogers -

      "You got to know when to hold them, know when to fold them,
      know when to walk away, know when to run..."

      I know this was put in a different context, but sometimes it's best to know
      when to leave things be. If you know you have done right by others, then
      you have done well and can look in the mirror and like what you see.

      Sometimes it's best to walk away, or 'turn the other cheek' as I like to say.

      If it's any consolation 'what goes around, (ALWAYS) comes around.


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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        John, they say that misery loves company. I don't know how true that is
        but I get my stuff stolen and ripped off constantly.

        I look at the situation in 2 ways.

        First I look at it from a "do what's right standpoint" where I want to lynch
        the ******* from the highest tree I can find.

        Then I look at it from the "what's my time worth to me" standpoint and I
        soon realize that I am only playing into their hands and allowing them to
        drag me down to their level.

        If you can pick up a phone, call a lawyer and get the scum bag thrown
        in jail without spending more than 5 minutes of your time doing it, then I
        would say go for it.

        But if it's going to rob you of your resources and turn your work day, or
        even your work life into a nightmare (lawsuits can drag on forever) then
        personally, I don't think it's worth it.

        Ultimately, it comes down to how much of your business will be hurt by
        this. If it literally puts you out of business then you really have no choice
        but to fight it. If however, it is no more than a minor inconvenience, then
        you have to weigh the pluses and minuses.

        As for karma, I am a true believer in it. Why do I say that? Because when
        I was very young, I was not the person I am today. I freely admit it. I
        did things that were foolish and stupid and I'm not very proud of them.
        For the most part, I didn't take care of myself and as a result, I am
        paying for it today. I am not looking for sympathy. I totally deserve the
        lot in life (physically) that I have. I am saying this because, as I said, I
        am a firm believer in karma and when you do bad things either to yourself
        or others, you will be paid back in full.

        I will conclude by saying that I hope you find peace in this matter. The
        worst thing about these matters is not so much the actual wrong doing,
        but the anger that eats you up inside.

        Don't let it John...You're too good a man for that.

        And THAT to me is what constitutes a real man.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers

      Maybe you should give out the TurboTwit of the Year awards?

      Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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  • Profile picture of the author Noah Fleming
    John is one of the first people who actually helped me to earn my first dimes online. In fact, I remember very clearly "paying" to promote John's products.

    At first I had no clue what I was really doing but John took the time to help me and email me. He would respond to my "newbie" emails with advice and class. He gave me advice on how to sell the product and earn from promoting his products.

    I actually had some decent success with this and made decent money selling the Turbo line. This was back in 2004.

    John is a good man.
    I hope whatever is happening is resolved quickly.
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  • Profile picture of the author Edwin Green
    Very nicely put John.

    I see that most here have understood your thoughts.

    You truly are the "Turbo Man" in Every Aspect!

    Actions - Words - Thoughts

    It is a Great pleasure to call you my friend.


    When I have something to say, I use my Blog.
    For Internet Marketers by Internet Marketers

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  • Profile picture of the author Ian del Carmen
    Maybe I'm not that intelligent after all... I still don't get it!

    Can you email me wazzup, John?

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  • Profile picture of the author IM Ace
    I may be late here John...
    From what I surmise of the situation you have poured out to, the scum will never get what you have built....the whole Turbo community will stand by you because we understand how much of blood and sweat has gone into what you have built....
    I feel for you.... but also feel confident that you will always be one up.
    Hope you are already over it and back to usual self.
    I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
    I wouldn't know. However I heard someone say something to the effect that: "Great men question themselves and what they think often." I liked the post about looking in the mirror. At the end of the day if you can feel good about being you because you were doing good (or that was your intention) then you can be happy.
    "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
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