FREE: Multi-Million Dollar Internet Marketing Funnel!

Ben-Jones

15 years ago

Thanks for the guide.

Might help a few members realise the pottential of giving things away for free

Thanks

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Tim Dixon

15 years ago

Great post Nick, you're so right that a lot of people still have no concept of even a basic sales funnel.

Although they do now thanks to your post !

Tim

Thanks

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tomw

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Ben-Jones

Thanks for the guide.

Might help a few members realise the pottential of giving things away for free

That's right! You'll probably be able to find a killer "Multi Million Dollar Business Plan" like this one in a free ebook...or was that were it was found?

LOL!

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NickMarks 15 years ago

Originally Posted by tomw

That's right! You'll probably be able to find a killer "Multi Million Dollar Business Plan" like this one in a free ebook...or was that were it was found?

LOL!

It took me a good amount of time to write that post above, so you should have some respect and realize who you're talking about... (not looking for a reply from you, no need to go off topic anymore..)
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- tomw 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by NickMarks
  
  It took me a good amount of time to write that post above, so you should have some respect and realize who you're talking about...
  
  I know EXACTLY who I'm talking about which is WHY I wrote it.
  
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Zach Booker

15 years ago

A Great post like always Nick

Thanks for sharing,
Zach

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tomw

15 years ago

[DELETED]

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Zach Booker

15 years ago

Originally Posted by tomw

Thanks for your edit (in parenthesis). We wouldn't want things to get out of hand would we? Wouldn't want to tarnish your reputation or anything...

LOL!

Are you serious? If you don't like Nick that's fine, if you don't like his posts thats fine too. But don't come to a thread trying to start a 'fight' for no reason at all...he just posted a great thread, and i'm sure it took him quite awhile to write it. I found it very usefull, espically the part about the call centers.

Even though I already knew everything in the post I still found it a good reminder of how some internet marketers make their money.

I'm thinking you don't make even 1% of what Nick makes so really your opinion doesn't matter a whole lot.

Just my 2 cents

By the way you come across as quite the arrogant ass. Just letting you know

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tomw

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Zach Booker

Are you serious? If you don't like Nick that's fine, if you don't like his posts thats fine too. But don't come to a thread trying to start a 'fight' for no reason at all...he just posted a great thread, and i'm sure it took him quite awhile to write it. I found it very usefull, espically the part about the call centers.

Even though I already knew everything in the post I still found it a good reminder of how some internet marketers make their money.

I'm thinking you don't make even 1% of what Nick makes so really your opinion doesn't matter a whole lot.

Just my 2 cents

By the way you come across as quite the arrogant ass. Just letting you know

That's why I deleted it. It was a mistake to go that far. As for your comment on my income...you might be surprised...

Thomas

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OnlineMasterMind

15 years ago

Originally Posted by tomw

That's why I deleted it. It was a mistake to go that far. As for your comment on my income...you might be surprised...

Thomas

No he wouldn't.

The words you use tell the entire story.

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tomw

15 years ago

Originally Posted by OnlineMasterMind

No he wouldn't.

The words you use tell the entire story.

LOL! What do you mean by this?

What you will generally find is that those that have either made it in their business/profession or actually know what they are talking about care deeply and passionately about both the treatment and teaching of others. This may simply mean those lower down the rung in the same field or that customers (all customers, not just their own!) are treated in a fair and honest manner. It also certainly means a feeling of responsibility. A duty of care and love for one's fellow man.

And so I have no qualms writing what I believe to be sympathetic to this view. MY view.

For many, this stance becomes far more important than the relentless pursuit of the dollars and the pounds and when you get there you will realise that after a certain point the money becomes pretty meaningless in comparison.

Maybe you should spend more time reading the posts of Brian Kumar, Paul Myers, John Delavera, Allen Says, Andy Henry, Steve Wagenheim and more recently Ken Preuss, to name but a few of the real heroes around here, instead of seeking out this sort of thing. You may find that you get there a lot faster.

I wish you well.

Thomas

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OnlineMasterMind

15 years ago

Originally Posted by tomw

LOL! What do you mean by this?

That most people who are quick to make a negative remark when someone tries to post something that they consider valuable are making peanuts.

You could be the exception.

And I was commenting on how you were so quick to criticize Nick's post, saying it could be found in a free ebook.

NOT on whatever you said about the coaching...if you commented on that...I didn't see it, but I do think Mr. Surfrider summed it up well.

Originally Posted by tomw

Maybe you should spend more time reading the posts of Brian Kumar, Paul Myers, John Delavera, Allen Says, Andy Henry, Steve Wagenheim and more recently Ken Preuss, to name but a few of the real heroes around here, instead of seeking out this sort of thing. You may find that you get there a lot faster.

I'm not even gonna comment here but I will say that I don't consider someone who implicates someone who I respect as a liar...a hero... of course everyone is entitled to their opinion... and I do respect that.

Over & Out.

Thanks

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MicahF7

15 years ago

Thanks a lot Nick,

I hope i made it!

Micah Rush

MicahF7

<><

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imaddict

15 years ago

Originally Posted by NickMarks

That's what we do and we earn MILLIONS every year! This is how marketers can pay so much on adverting such as PPC. You can even lose on the front-end. Because you know you'll make it on the back-end! Let's work out some numbers here for an example...

Front-end price point $97
OTO $97 (example: 50% of your buyers take the offer)
DPL (Dollar per lead)(What your lead in worth on the back-end)
Let's just say you have a net DPL of $30. Meaning that's what you
earn on every lead you send, no matter what...

TOTAL CUSTOMER VALUE = $175.50! (And that's a low example!
On the higher end you can see 2-3x that number!)

A sales funnel is a must like you described, however, getting people to pay that much money for anything that doesn't involve making money and the price can be justified accordingly (e.g. MMO, Real Estate/Stock Investing) is WAY too optimistic.

With that said, I'd love for you to prove me wrong.

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NickMarks

15 years ago

Originally Posted by imaddict

A sales funnel is a must like you described, however, getting people to pay that much money for anything that doesn't involve making money and the price can be justified accordingly (e.g. MMO, Real Estate/Stock Investing) is WAY too optimistic.

With that said, I'd love for you to prove me wrong.

Well, that's not completely true. Niches such as dating (ever seen the TV show the pickup artist? Mystery does seminars) also, hypnosis, self-help/motivational, have HUGE back-ends.. There are tons of niches out of the financial niche that have a back-end. Ever solid business has a great back-end. That included online or offline for that matter. You should never get into a niche that doesn't have a back-end anyway.

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Elliott Bean

15 years ago

Originally Posted by imaddict

A sales funnel is a must like you described, however, getting people to pay that much money for anything that doesn't involve making money and the price can be justified accordingly (e.g. MMO, Real Estate/Stock Investing) is WAY too optimistic.

With that said, I'd love for you to prove me wrong.

David Deangelo(Eben pagan) charges between 200-500 dollars for his dating video products and I know of others in the dating niche who charge the same and these things sell by the bucket load.

People buy because they're desperate to not be lonely or they want to get laid (or both)

Moral of the story: you can charge alot even for non make money products as long as it is in a niche with desperate buyers.

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rondo

15 years ago

Hi Nick, so who is actually providing the coaching?

Andrew

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NickMarks 15 years ago

Originally Posted by rondo

Hi Nick, so who is actually providing the coaching?

Andrew

The call center who sells to your lead. They have the mentors to do that. If you want, PM me, and I can hook you up with a good company.. (but they really only deal with min 100 leads week)
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tess47

15 years ago

Yeah, seems like a little hostility here doesn't it? I thought it was a very enlightening post myself. Some people just like to stir things up.

Thanks

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Ron Douglas

15 years ago

Originally Posted by NickMarks

Hey Warriors,

I just posted a comment to someone asking if it's possible to earn $100K per day, I was telling them it is, that it's all in the back-end. Then I realized that this is probably a HUGE missing link for many of you! Sure, you can make some money online with just a front-end ebook sale here or there, but without a back-end you will never make the big bucks...

So what IS a back-end and how can you get one!?

Here's MY: Multi-Million Dollar Internet Marketing Funnel!

1. Give away a free ebook, report, video (you collect the optin here and market down your funnel)

2. After they optin you can send them to an offer right away, or wait and build trust with your emails first. An easy way to build trust with your list, is to give away a few videos every now and then to your list. It's all about "raising the free line".Once they see you know what you're talking about, you'll have their trust and they will buy everything you offer! Note: that's not to say you can't offer them products right up front. You can and you should! But you build trust with your list at the same time.

3. At some point the person on your list now buys a low ticket item ($27-$97 is a good price point. Any lower, we've found the back-end lead is not that great. As we should know by now, it's all in the back-end! So don't charge $7 for your ebooks...

4. After they buy your low ticket item you then offer your customer an OTO (one time offer) right after the sale! Don't even take them to your members area yet. Offer them an upgrade of what they already purchased. Just an extra few videos will do. Or just get some PLR reports that are relevant to the front-end and some resell rights software and use that as the OTO. Price point should be 1-3x what the front-end price point was. On a $97 product, I would make the OTO $97. On a $27 front-end price point, I would make it $67.

5. Now here comes the real big bucks... Your coaching! What you do here is you would need to hook up with a call center (IF YOU CREATE 100+ LEADS/WEEK PM ME, I'll HOOK YOU UP) to call your leads and they will sell them coaching packages from $5,000-$10,000 EACH! The best part is they take care of all the coaching. You just send them the leads and you cash your checks each month!

That's what we do and we earn MILLIONS every year! This is how marketers can pay so much on adverting such as PPC. You can even lose on the front-end. Because you know you'll make it on the back-end! Let's work out some numbers here for an example...

Front-end price point $97
OTO $97 (example: 50% of your buyers take the offer)
DPL (Dollar per lead)(What your lead in worth on the back-end)
Let's just say you have a net DPL of $30. Meaning that's what you
earn on every lead you send, no matter what...

TOTAL CUSTOMER VALUE = $175.50! (And that's a low example!
On the higher end you can see 2-3x that number!)

And that's just from this product! Let alone how many products you can sell them later. So now think about your marketing. How much more easy is it? Now you can lose on the front-end, because you know you'll make it up on the back-end!

Take what you've learned here and put it into ACTION! That is the most important part of business. After you have a road-map to success, you need to take that first step. Only you can do that. So get started right now working on your backend...

Comments are welcomed. Hope this helps

Great post Nick. Thanks for sharing what works for you. We need to encourage more successful people to post on this forum.

It's funny that posts like this don't get much respect but posts about making $300 working 14 hour days writing articles get praised.

I haven't tried the Call Center thing, but that gives me some ideas.

Thanks
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NickMarks

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Ron Douglas

Great post Nick. Thanks for sharing what works for you. We need to encourage more successful people to post on this forum.

It's funny that posts like this don't get much respect but posts about making $300 working 14 hour days writing articles get praised.

I haven't tried the Call Center thing, but that gives me some ideas.

Oh sure, np

A bunch of successful marketers like myself pop in the forum all the time. You should keep an eye open for them. Just check out the "who's online" list and you'll see a bunch of gurus are always here. Some post, others don't.

Thanks

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mudmat

15 years ago

That is a great guide nick! Thanks.

I know about the funneling part but the part on outsourcing the coaching is never heard of by me.

Thanks
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Chris Grable

15 years ago

Nick, I was with you right down to the coaching idea. Do your customers think they are being coached by you?..... Or do they recognize that they are buying a more generic product?

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NickMarks

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Chris Grable

Nick, I was with you right down to the coaching idea. Do your customers think they are being coached by you?..... Or do they recognize that they are buying a more generic product?

Chris, yes, they'll know that you personally will not be doing the mentoring. It will be your team of mentors that will mentor them and they know this.

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Lance K

15 years ago

Originally Posted by NickMarks

Chris, yes, they'll know that you personally will not be doing the mentoring. It will be your team of mentors that will mentor them and they know this.

Nick, is it a generic coaching program, or a custom one put together by you that is carried out by the team of mentors?

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NickMarks

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Lance K

Nick, is it a generic coaching program, or a custom one put together by you that is carried out by the team of mentors?

You can do both. If you wanted to talk with the call center to create your own coaching program that they run for you, some will do that. Or you can just use the generic one they already have.

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DavidParnell

15 years ago

I sent you a PM Nick with email and phone but never heard from you....

Originally Posted by NickMarks

You can do both. If you wanted to talk with the call center to create your own coaching program that they run for you, some will do that. Or you can just use the generic one they already have.

Thanks

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trippmarxx

15 years ago

Good post...

While I believe in this plan, I think that you need to get yourself more established first though before really cracking into things like this. It takes time to master the art of internet marketing, and I think many newbies out there would be overwhelmed and wouldn't know how to maximize the potential of a plan like this.

With that said, they should first learn each of these skills separately, and then slowly combine them together. While it will take time, it will be much easier in the long run.

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Jeff B

15 years ago

Originally Posted by trippmarxx

Good post...

While I believe in this plan, I think that you need to get yourself more established first though before really cracking into things like this. It takes time to master the art of internet marketing, and I think many newbies out there would be overwhelmed and wouldn't know how to maximize the potential of a plan like this.

With that said, they should first learn each of these skills separately, and then slowly combine them together. While it will take time, it will be much easier in the long run.

Yeah, but then this guy's buddies at the call center won't have any naive newbies giving them leads for their $20,000 coaching. How many people have PM'd this guy about that? I'd reckon at least a few.

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sevenish

15 years ago

By virtue of purchasing of a certain someone's product some years ago I got onto one of these vicious call center lists. Whoa, talk about demeaning, down n dirty bullying.

These guys DEMANDED to know how much credit I had. And DEMANDED to know my annual income. I never revealed my credit, but I didn't mind revealing my income.

When I did reveal my income, the call center representative DEMANDED to know why I would be calling them for coaching, if i made that much income.

I didn't call them at all.

I continued to receive calls from desperate call center reps screaming "I'm trying to help you!".

I know, I know ... you're trying to help me.

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NickMarks

15 years ago

Originally Posted by sevenish

By virtue of purchasing of a certain someone's product some years ago I got onto one of these vicious call center lists. Whoa, talk about demeaning, down n dirty bullying.

These guys DEMANDED to know how much credit I had. And DEMANDED to know my annual income. I never revealed my credit, but I didn't mind revealing my income.

When I did reveal my income, the call center representative DEMANDED to know why I would be calling them for coaching, if i made that much income.

I didn't call them at all.

I continued to receive calls from desperate call center reps screaming "I'm trying to help you!".

I know, I know ... you're trying to help me.

Yes, very good point! I forgot to include a warning: You really need to look into the call center you deal with to make sure they don't hard sell like above. As with anything, there are good and bad call centers. We trust the call center we work with and have never had such problems.

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tomw

15 years ago

I want to apologise to those that have read my previous posts in this thread. I'm not always such an "arrogant ass." It's just that when I see people recommending the old call centre and outsourced mentoring approach it kind of makes me pretty mad. Well, very mad.

This has been around for years. Trust me.

Now that I no longer *have* to work for a living and haven't done for quite a while, some of my time is spent working with various advertising standards and consumer rights groups and charities here in the UK.

You see, many of these call centres would be shut down if they where based in the UK.

Yes they follow up leads. Yes they convert really well and make great money on otherwise lost income opportunities. But their methods are pretty unbelievable and the number of complaints are pretty unbelievable too. Not to mention the impact on many people's lives. Some are even destroyed.

The operators prey on the weak and vulnerable and the majority seem to follow a number of very similar strong arm scripts that are very powerful in convincing those who should but don't really know any better to part with pretty large amounts of cash, which of course they cannot afford to.

There are numerous angles and tactics that these guys use. One of the most popular is convincing the target of that age old business concept, apparently, the one,

"that everyone knows and uses to get ahead when they're starting out!"

It's called "OPM." It stands for Other People's Money.

Through various VERY high pressure selling techniques, the call centre operators are able to convince their targets that using OPM is the best way to be a success as quickly as possible and if they act now they can receive the special coaching that they are offering.

Of course, it's just someone following a free ebook level script, but very often the target is none the wiser and it seems like top level coaching to them because how would they know the difference?

Obviously, "Other People's Money" is actually your credit card company or your bank's money, because,

"hey, if you use their money and the business fails, you *personally* haven't lost anything, right?"

Well, obviously you guys can figure out where things lead from here...

I know this because I have seen some of the "top level" coaching notes emailed, the sites provided and "results" of the coaching given. I also know some of the victims personally now and have heard their stories face to face.

I could write countless details here about other underhand strategies, emotionally manipulative tactics and of course about the impact on vulnerable people's lives, but I simply wanted to point out the other side of the coin and try to keep things on topic.

I also felt the desire to justify my earlier posts which where wrong. This is not the place to take issue with a fellow Warrior. Many of whom genuinely get into this business because of a real desire to make a positive difference in people's lives and I know that many of those that I have come to think of fondly and even as friends would appreciate knowing at least some of the details I have provided and especially before they investigate such a follow up route for themselves.

Thomas

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Steve Iser 15 years ago

Nick, see your PM.

Something else I wanted to talk to you with aside from the PM
I sent.

Steve
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- Steve Iser 15 years ago
  
  One other piece of advice to what Nick is suggesting is that as far as data mangement is concerned with customer acquisition, another strategy is to follow-up with a secondary and third product position for more revenue on phone sales.
  
  It's done a lot in lots of markets online.
  
  i.e: Customer does not take coaching package. Then you present other alternative offers to them at a later date - maximizing your revenue efficiency with your data. But if they do not want to be called again, be sure to take them off. Be ethical about it.
  
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Fabian Tan

15 years ago

Nick, very compelling post! Just sent you a PM.

Fabian

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warriorsellingebooks

Banned 15 years ago

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NickMarks

15 years ago

Originally Posted by warriorsellingebooks

"Revealed: The Only True Secret Formula For Earning Over $20,000 Per Month, Working Just An Hour Per Day!"

Is that your income $20k/m for selling your secret formula?

Off topic, but will reply

Oh no, not at all. Not to sound conceited, really, but I earn millions from my online businesses. The PMF system is a really cool little system I've been using for some time now. It does really work well.

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Jakehyten

15 years ago

Nick i assume it was my post you were referring to and i appreciate this follow up. Great post!

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chris_surfrider

15 years ago

When you gain visibility in affiliate networks like CB and other places these coaching companies will be contacting you all the time.

I've always held off because I've seen a lot of flack in the past for several such programs, for the various reasons mentioned above, and for me the potential pay-cut is something that I'm willing to take for the sake of integrity.

HOWEVER...

This isn't some pious "holier than thou" stance.

I fully intend to offer high-priced coaching offers to my various client-bases, but I want to be behind every step of the development along the way, and I would rather do it all "in-house".

I look at my business as a way to truly impact people positively, as best I can.

This has paid huge dividends for me in terms of the responsiveness of my lists, word-of-mouth and goodwill in general.

I'm far from perfect and I have made mistakes in the past - one's that have damaged my credibility - but I'm willing to admit that, learn from it and progress and aim to achieve a higher standard.

And I may be young, but the one thing I've come to realize is that money isn't wealth if there's strings attached.

Newbies and begginers - listen up:

Making "real" money isn't enough to make you happy.

It does provide options and ease your mind.

But you won't be truly happy or fulfilled unless you KNOW that you're doing the best you can by your customers and the people you serve.

You can still make millions by sincerely helping people. Instead of just profiting from them.

There IS a difference.

So if you use the coaching strategy that Nick has laid out - which is a great backend in terms of revenue - make sure that you're true to yourself, and your customers, and always ask yourself this question before you offer ANYTHING:

"Am I providing more value than what I'm charging?"

And it doesn't matter if it's not your coaching company, or whatever. You're still offering it, and your customers who spend their money as a result of you.

So if you can honestly answer "yes" to that statement, then you have a green light.

If not - then you'll never be at peace with the money you earn.

You'll have money, but not wealth.

-Chris

P.S. This is just my opinion. Also, this is not directed towards Nick in any way. This is just something I've observed when it comes to similar coaching setups in the past. For all I know, Nick has the best, most legitimate coaching programs available. Sounds like he's done his research, so that's probably accurate.

But my point is - don't just sell something because it makes you money. A bad reputation will COST you in the long-run, even if not financially.

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NickMarks

15 years ago

Originally Posted by chris_surfrider

When you gain visibility in affiliate networks like CB and other places these coaching companies will be contacting you all the time.

I've always held off because I've seen a lot of flack in the past for several such programs, for the various reasons mentioned above, and for me the potential pay-cut is something that I'm willing to take for the sake of integrity.

HOWEVER...

This isn't some pious "holier than thou" stance.

I fully intend to offer high-priced coaching offers to my various client-bases, but I want to be behind every step of the development along the way, and I would rather do it all "in-house".

I look at my business as a way to truly impact people positively, as best I can.

This has paid huge dividends for me in terms of the responsiveness of my lists, word-of-mouth and goodwill in general.

I'm far from perfect and I have made mistakes in the past - one's that have damaged my credibility - but I'm willing to admit that, learn from it and progress and aim to achieve a higher standard.

And I may be young, but the one thing I've come to realize is that money isn't wealth if there's strings attached.

Newbies and begginers - listen up:

Making "real" money isn't enough to make you happy.

It does provide options and ease your mind.

But you won't be truly happy or fulfilled unless you KNOW that you're doing the best you can by your customers and the people you serve.

You can still make millions by sincerely helping people. Instead of just profiting from them.

There IS a difference.

So if you use the coaching strategy that Nick has laid out - which is a great backend in terms of revenue - make sure that you're true to yourself, and your customers, and always ask yourself this question before you offer ANYTHING:

"Am I providing more value than what I'm charging?"

And it doesn't matter if it's not your coaching company, or whatever. You're still offering it, and your customers who spend their money as a result of you.

So if you can honestly answer "yes" to that statement, then you have a green light.

If not - then you'll never be at peace with the money you earn.

You'll have money, but not wealth.

-Chris

P.S. This is just my opinion. Also, this is not directed towards Nick in any way. This is just something I've observed when it comes to similar coaching setups in the past. For all I know, Nick has the best, most legitimate coaching programs available. Sounds like he's done his research, so that's probably accurate.

But my point is - don't just sell something because it makes you money. A bad reputation will COST you in the long-run, even if not financially.

That's a very good point Chris, and I agree 100%. You know, I get approached all the time from IM companies wanting to do some sort of business deal. And the first thing I say is that for me, "It's not just about the money." If the deal is in line with my vision for my company and if it will provide value to my customers, then I would look into the deal on the table. If not, it gets turned down...

But back to the topic, you can provide value to your customers via a coaching program, be it in house or out. You just need to research who you do business with. That's all it comes down to..

Thanks

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Lance K

15 years ago

Dude, you already had me hooked to buy whatever you put out. Now you just solidified that stance.

You're one of the good guys. No doubt. Thanks for being real.

Originally Posted by chris_surfrider

When you gain visibility in affiliate networks like CB and other places these coaching companies will be contacting you all the time.

I've always held off because I've seen a lot of flack in the past for several such programs, for the various reasons mentioned above, and for me the potential pay-cut is something that I'm willing to take for the sake of integrity.

HOWEVER...

This isn't some pious "holier than thou" stance.

I fully intend to offer high-priced coaching offers to my various client-bases, but I want to be behind every step of the development along the way, and I would rather do it all "in-house".

I look at my business as a way to truly impact people positively, as best I can.

This has paid huge dividends for me in terms of the responsiveness of my lists, word-of-mouth and goodwill in general.

I'm far from perfect and I have made mistakes in the past - one's that have damaged my credibility - but I'm willing to admit that, learn from it and progress and aim to achieve a higher standard.

And I may be young, but the one thing I've come to realize is that money isn't wealth if there's strings attached.

Newbies and begginers - listen up:

Making "real" money isn't enough to make you happy.

It does provide options and ease your mind.

But you won't be truly happy or fulfilled unless you KNOW that you're doing the best you can by your customers and the people you serve.

You can still make millions by sincerely helping people. Instead of just profiting from them.

There IS a difference.

So if you use the coaching strategy that Nick has laid out - which is a great backend in terms of revenue - make sure that you're true to yourself, and your customers, and always ask yourself this question before you offer ANYTHING:

"Am I providing more value than what I'm charging?"

And it doesn't matter if it's not your coaching company, or whatever. You're still offering it, and your customers who spend their money as a result of you.

So if you can honestly answer "yes" to that statement, then you have a green light.

If not - then you'll never be at peace with the money you earn.

You'll have money, but not wealth.

-Chris

P.S. This is just my opinion. Also, this is not directed towards Nick in any way. This is just something I've observed when it comes to similar coaching setups in the past. For all I know, Nick has the best, most legitimate coaching programs available. Sounds like he's done his research, so that's probably accurate.

But my point is - don't just sell something because it makes you money. A bad reputation will COST you in the long-run, even if not financially.

Thanks

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Ken Preuss

15 years ago

EVERY single warrior should make sure to digest what Chris has written above.

I too have made mistakes in the past that provided short-term gains but resulted in long-term losses. In some cases huge losses. Those mistakes have shaped both me and my current business.

I've also used outsourced coaching companies - and have paid the price for my lack of insistence on quality (both sales approach and the coaching itself).

When you reach a certain level it's easy to get seduced by the dollars - you'd be amazed at how easy dollars are to get at that point.

It's maintaining your business as an asset that takes the real effort and commitment.

Ken

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jazzyjeff

15 years ago

Nick,

Thanks for this post. The back end sales is a very important part of the sales funnel. It is designed to squeeze as much money out of your customer as you can. I hope people will try your tips and be able to make even more money.

Jeff

Thanks

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Li Weng

15 years ago

It's a great post. I guess it all comes down to the simple truth - the money is in the list. Some of your strategies are definitely highly effective, as you see them implemented by top-level marketers all the time.

PPC and selling from product sites can be a good source of income. But the secure money, and your endless profits actually come from your list. Once you get a massive list, everything starts to happen - JV deals, partnerships etc.

That's where the real money is made, and that where I aim to be.

Thanks

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ste25

Banned 15 years ago

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MaskedMarketer

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Ben-Jones

Thanks for the guide.

Might help a few members realise the pottential of giving things away for free

There is no potential in giving away free stuff unless it is actually valuable. That's the key.

Originally Posted by NickMarks

The call center who sells to your lead. They have the mentors to do that. If you want, PM me, and I can hook you up with a good company.. (but they really only deal with min 100 leads week)

This call center that you use- is it based out of Utah, where employees are paid commissions only, like most successful businesses use? Why not just tell us the company that is so good, so all these people stop making mistakes with the sharks out there?

How often are you signing up as a lead to go through the sales process, to make sure customer experience is top notch?

What else are you doing to make sure its all legit?

Originally Posted by sevenish

These guys DEMANDED to know how much credit I had. And DEMANDED to know my annual income. I never revealed my credit, but I didn't mind revealing my income.

I know exactly the group of people you're referring to. I know them all too well- They are paid commissions only and need to feed a family, what do you expect?

The businesses that hire them don't care, because they do make big commissions. The company I worked for in the past did 5k-35k packages- so 5-10k is like taking candy from a baby over the phone.

Originally Posted by tomw

Yes they follow up leads. Yes they convert really well and make great money on otherwise lost income opportunities. But their methods are pretty unbelievable and the number of complaints are pretty unbelievable too. Not to mention the impact on many people's lives. Some are even destroyed.

The operators prey on the weak and vulnerable and the majority seem to follow a number of very similar strong arm scripts that are very powerful in convincing those who should but don't really know any better to part with pretty large amounts of cash, which of course they cannot afford to.

There are numerous angles and tactics that these guys use. One of the most popular is convincing the target of that age old business concept, apparently, the one,

"that everyone knows and uses to get ahead when they're starting out!"

It's called "OPM." It stands for Other People's Money.

Through various VERY high pressure selling techniques, the call centre operators are able to convince their targets that using OPM is the best way to be a success as quickly as possible and if they act now they can receive the special coaching that they are offering.

Of course, it's just someone following a free ebook level script, but very often the target is none the wiser and it seems like top level coaching to them because how would they know the difference?

Obviously, "Other People's Money" is actually your credit card company or your bank's money, because,

"hey, if you use their money and the business fails, you *personally* haven't lost anything, right?"

Well, obviously you guys can figure out where things lead from here...

I know this because I have seen some of the "top level" coaching notes emailed, the sites provided and "results" of the coaching given. I also know some of the victims personally now and have heard their stories face to face.

I could write countless details here about other underhand strategies, emotionally manipulative tactics and of course about the impact on vulnerable people's lives, but I simply wanted to point out the other side of the coin and try to keep things on topic.

I also felt the desire to justify my earlier posts which where wrong. This is not the place to take issue with a fellow Warrior. Many of whom genuinely get into this business because of a real desire to make a positive difference in people's lives and I know that many of those that I have come to think of fondly and even as friends would appreciate knowing at least some of the details I have provided and especially before they investigate such a follow up route for themselves.

Thomas

Thomas is spot on with what he is saying.

I've worked for companies that employee these telemarketing companies and my friend also consulted for numerous telemarketing companies based in Utah (most successful businesses use these guys because of commissions only!)

Anyone being paid commission only, WILL do whatever it takes for the sale.

You want to feed your family and kids? Then make the 10k sale at any cost. This is how they operate- most of them. One of the guys I know out there has been doing it for over 15 years and makes good money.

I can almost guarantee most marketing "gurus" are using these Utah based companies where they are paid commissions only.

I know for a fact- at least a few years ago- a well known marketing guru that everyone here knows, sold there list (or gave it for follow up) to a telemarketing company I worked with (they were in Utah) and used these same strong arm tactics. Not good for the marketers reputation at all.

You know why you can't use these Utah based, commissions only people?

Because they have been doing this for years- this is a super old tactic that Nick is promoting and these guys have there ways set and will do whatever it takes for the sale.

I hope Nick and others that are using outsourcing companies are paying them by the hour, recording there calls, and listening to the calls personally themselves- or else they have no idea whats going on.

Originally Posted by chris_surfrider

When you gain visibility in affiliate networks like CB and other places these coaching companies will be contacting you all the time.

I've always held off because I've seen a lot of flack in the past for several such programs, for the various reasons mentioned above, and for me the potential pay-cut is something that I'm willing to take for the sake of integrity.

HOWEVER...

This isn't some pious "holier than thou" stance.

I fully intend to offer high-priced coaching offers to my various client-bases, but I want to be behind every step of the development along the way, and I would rather do it all "in-house".

I look at my business as a way to truly impact people positively, as best I can.

This has paid huge dividends for me in terms of the responsiveness of my lists, word-of-mouth and goodwill in general.

I'm far from perfect and I have made mistakes in the past - one's that have damaged my credibility - but I'm willing to admit that, learn from it and progress and aim to achieve a higher standard.

And I may be young, but the one thing I've come to realize is that money isn't wealth if there's strings attached.

Newbies and begginers - listen up:

Making "real" money isn't enough to make you happy.

It does provide options and ease your mind.

But you won't be truly happy or fulfilled unless you KNOW that you're doing the best you can by your customers and the people you serve.

You can still make millions by sincerely helping people. Instead of just profiting from them.

There IS a difference.

So if you use the coaching strategy that Nick has laid out - which is a great backend in terms of revenue - make sure that you're true to yourself, and your customers, and always ask yourself this question before you offer ANYTHING:

"Am I providing more value than what I'm charging?"

And it doesn't matter if it's not your coaching company, or whatever. You're still offering it, and your customers who spend their money as a result of you.

So if you can honestly answer "yes" to that statement, then you have a green light.

If not - then you'll never be at peace with the money you earn.

You'll have money, but not wealth.

-Chris

P.S. This is just my opinion. Also, this is not directed towards Nick in any way. This is just something I've observed when it comes to similar coaching setups in the past. For all I know, Nick has the best, most legitimate coaching programs available. Sounds like he's done his research, so that's probably accurate.

But my point is - don't just sell something because it makes you money. A bad reputation will COST you in the long-run, even if not financially.

Nice Post Chris,

The key is knowing you who you dealing with when outsourcing.

Want to know the real problem?

MOST big, successful companies, use Utah based, commissions only people. Utah is famous for these companies. All the top guys know this.

This may be fairly new to Nick and other warrior memebers, but don't be fooled and sucked in by the dollar signs- remember, these guys are SALESMEN- and they are good!

These are what the Big Boys use because its cheap (commissions only)- and they convert real well(at any cost).

Honestly, I know multiple organizations, doing 50m-150m+ a year that use these guys- and these are brand names, not your average Joe- like a Nick Marks.

I don't know who Nick is using, but THE MOST COMMON people to use in this industry, for the cheapest, with the best results, are the Utah based dudes - and do you think some guy being paid commissions only trying to feed his family, really cares about the reputation of some "internet gurus" business..

These telemarketing dudes work with info companies that do seminars everyday. How many internet gurus put on seminars everyday around the nation? My mind is blank, too...

It is profitable, but do you really want to strong arm your prospects/ customers? Because that's how they work.

I don't know who Nick is using- but I know many marketers make mistakes when choosing these companies and it can screw up your relationship with your prospects and customers.

My point is- don't make that mistake... It can be costly...

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MaskedMarketer

15 years ago

Here's How the Telemarketing Process Works (and how you can guard yourself from these money sucking thugs) :

When selling a high ticket item- successful telemarketers use a 2 step process.

This is how the process goes:

1. You send your list of leads with numbers to the call center
2. The call center has an "opener" to call all the numbers.
a. The "opener" "qualifies" the prospect.
(this is where the reverse psychology comes in- its powerful)
3. The prospects thinks he/she has to qualify before they are allowed in the program- in reality- the opener needs to see how much AVAILABLE CREDIT and INCOME the person has.
4. From there they set an appointment or pass the person off to a manager or program director where the sale takes place (the goals is to have the prospect thinking- "thank god" im qualified.) the good reps do this with ease.
5. The program director - maganger's job is to extract as much available credit and money the person has as possible by creating packages of programs for the client.

I don't see much of a problem doing stuff like this, but when high pressure tactics are used (even lying) its going too far off ethical territory. (don't forget, those commissions only people have families that must be fed.)

Now that you know how the process works, don't get sucked in by the hype. If the program is good and does what it say- then there shouldnt be a problem.

Most of these call centers offer NO MONEY BACK- other than a 3 day period which I think is required by law.

Make sure you know the company you're using.

And I would recommend to go through the sales process everyday if possible to make sure customer experience is top notch.

If you're serious about your business- and care about your customers- this is what you do.

Thanks
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NewbiesDiary

15 years ago

Originally Posted by MaskedMarketer

Here's How the Telemarketing Process Works (and how you can guard yourself from these money sucking thugs) :

When selling a high ticket item- successful telemarketers use a 2 step process.

This is how the process goes:

1. You send your list of leads with numbers to the call center
2. The call center has an "opener" to call all the numbers.
a. The "opener" "qualifies" the prospect.
(this is where the reverse psychology comes in- its powerful)
3. The prospects thinks he/she has to qualify before they are allowed in the program- in reality- the opener needs to see how much AVAILABLE CREDIT and INCOME the person has.
4. From there they set an appointment or pass the person off to a manager or program director where the sale takes place (the goals is to have the prospect thinking- "thank god" im qualified.) the good reps do this with ease.
5. The program director - maganger's job is to extract as much available credit and money the person has as possible by creating packages of programs for the client.

I don't see much of a problem doing stuff like this, but when high pressure tactics are used (even lying) its going too far off ethical territory. (don't forget, those commissions only people have families that must be fed.)

Now that you know how the process works, don't get sucked in by the hype. If the program is good and does what it say- then there shouldnt be a problem.

Most of these call centers offer NO MONEY BACK- other than a 3 day period which I think is required by law.

Make sure you know the company you're using.

And I would recommend to go through the sales process everyday if possible to make sure customer experience is top notch.

If you're serious about your business- and care about your customers- this is what you do.

Just over a year ago I was desperate to "learn the secrets" to internet marketing.
At the time I had a list of "respected" gurus that I'd watch every product, absorb all their free info etc etc - you know how it goes.

I applied for a PERSONALISED coaching program with a guru that I'll tell you in VERY well respected & I mean VERY VERY! So I trusted that I wouldnt get ripped off.

The process I was taken thru was EXACTLY as stated above - & I fell for the hype & believed I was truely lucky to be accepted into their program.

Now I will say I agreed to a payment plan & put $2500 in up front. One thing they did for me was to send me a HUGE package of that gurus top products "free". This product is still available today and again is really well respected. I got a really nice "mentor" who was easy to talk to, but all she was really doing was reading the product manual to me. When I asked specific questions about "should I do this or should I do that" the answers were vague at best. Each time I went outside the product manual, looking for the PERSONALISED part of it, I wasn't getting the answers.

Unfortunately my husband became incredibly sick over Christmas last year & I wasn't able to continue the program - luckily I'd only paid the first installment & I'll say that when I explained my circumstances they were quite happy to release me from the contract.

My point? The guru's coaching spiel was that I'd have contact with HIS people, HIS resources, HIS experts etc etc - but all I had was someone reading a manual to me for a very high price. The company running this is in the US and I've had calls from them representing other gurus as well.

Nick says "Chris, yes, they'll know that you personally will not be doing the mentoring. It will be your team of mentors that will mentor them and they know this. " - but do they understand that "your team of mentors" is a company that is not really your team at all.

I felt mislead when I signed up for that coaching, I was under the impression I was actually going to get PERSONALISED coaching because that's what the guru promised me and that's just not what I got.

I'm sorry if that just got off topic but I wanted to give the perspective of someone who has actually paid money for the coaching.

Thanks
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MaskedMarketer

15 years ago

Originally Posted by NewbiesDiary

I felt mislead when I signed up for that coaching, I was under the impression I was actually going to get PERSONALISED coaching because that's what the guru promised me and that's just not what I got.

I'm sorry if that just got off topic but I wanted to give the perspective of someone who has actually paid money for the coaching.

NewbiesDiary,

I've heard many horror stories of high priced coaching programs and the people have manuals or books to read to the students. You're definitely not alone.

Thanks

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Chris Lockwood

15 years ago

Originally Posted by NewbiesDiary

My point? The guru's coaching spiel was that I'd have contact with HIS people, HIS resources, HIS experts etc etc - but all I had was someone reading a manual to me for a very high price. The company running this is in the US and I've had calls from them representing other gurus as well.

Been there, done that. Didn't fall for it but know several who did.

I've received calls exactly like MM describes. It's often implied that the actual guru will be your coach, and the price would make you think it's true. Or you've been chosen to be his apprentice, as if you will be working side by side.

I think some of the people who do this are scumbags, preying on people who don't know any better, hard selling them worthless "coaching" done by someone who is one chapter ahead of them in the book, at a price that should get you the real expert.

You were lucky to get out of the contract without having to pay the full amount.

This is why I'm careful about giving out my phone number- tired of getting calls from these aholes trying to sell their crap coaching. They don't know the meaning of "not interested".

Usually if the caller ID shows a toll free number I don't answer.

(I didn't bold that on purpose, but the editor will not let me turn bold off!)

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B3n

15 years ago

Originally Posted by NickMarks

you should have some respect and realize who you're talking about...

We can never be sure with certain people because they use several different IDs on this forum (mentioning no names of course, Nick)

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Clark

15 years ago

Regarding telemarketing companies...

So what if the telemarketer is trying to get someone in your funnel to purchase a higher priced product that will "actually" get them closer to the customer's end goals.

I mean, the mentoring/coaching upsell is designed to guide someone toward success, not steal from them or maybe I've over-simplified this a bit.

I'm well aware of boiler room tactics but most often it pertains to shady or non-existent products so in this case, the product offering is a value add to the front-end customer which will speed up their learning curve and also, avoid costly mistakes they would have made otherwise without the coaching program.

In the end, these customers are Adults with credit cards and have the right to choose to buy or not to buy and some need a bit of a push in the right direction (not unlike great hypnotic copywriting)... so what's the problem with that?

Thanks
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MaskedMarketer

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Clark

Regarding telemarketing companies...

So what if the telemarketer is trying to get someone in your funnel to purchase a higher priced product that will "actually" get them closer to the customer's end goals.

I mean, the mentoring/coaching upsell is designed to guide someone toward success, not steal from them or maybe I've over-simplified this a bit.

I'm well aware of boiler room tactics but most often it pertains to shady or non-existent products so in this case, the product offering is a value add to the front-end customer which will speed up their learning curve and also, avoid costly mistakes they would have made otherwise without the coaching program.

That exactly right- the coaching is designed to get them to there goals. And it should. But not by using shady tactics- which they do use.

I actually worked with the individuals that would do this for companies like Nick is mentioning. So I KNOW what goes on. I just want people to stay away from companies that use these tactics. And many do- its called greed and most do not care about your business, don't be naive to think they care about your business- they care about the sale and commission.

I don't know what company Nick is using, but I'd like to know the company and how he makes sure all his customers and prospects are treated correctly. Sometimes, you never know what goes on if you outsource the whole thing and don't pay attention to every detail.

Isn't it a good pre-caution to really check out what company you're using and know the process in every detail? Remember, they are representing you and can damage your brand.

Originally Posted by Clark

In the end, these customers are Adults with credit cards and have the right to choose to buy or not to buy and some need a bit of a push in the right direction (not unlike great hypnotic copywriting)... so what's the problem with that?

What do you mean not like great hypnotic copywriting? The top dogs in the industry actually use NLP/hypnotic techniques in there sales formula, not that it really matters anyways.

And many people do need a push to do the right thing- and its a good thing, but only under ethical terms.

I know how these guys get down- just make sure you choose the right company and also you must become the customer to see how customer experience is.

If you are doing a set up like this, and not monitoring whats going on by becoming the customer once a day or to recorded calls, to see how the reps handle your customers and what their experience is like, how do you know they aren't using shady tactics?

Just be cautious with this method because it can turn on you, thats all..

Thanks
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Clark

15 years ago

Originally Posted by MaskedMarketer

What do you mean not like great hypnotic copywriting? The top dogs in the industry actually use NLP/hypnotic techniques in there sales formula, not that it really matters anyways.

I said it's "not unlike" a.k.a ->similar to

The point of researching the tactics of a telemarketing company to suit your own morals and ethics is valid.

Cheers!

Thanks

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Franck Silvestre 15 years ago

Are you sure?

Originally Posted by Clark

Regarding telemarketing companies...

In the end, these customers are Adults with credit cards
- Thanks
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radicals

15 years ago

I found this thread interresting to read. I seems the focus shifted to call centres. Do I understand the process right?

First you start with the giveaway product (for listbuilding)
Then you offer them low ticket items max $97 or something (eg an ebook at $27)
When the person have already paid for they get redirected to the 'back end' or download page. Now did you say that here instead of giving the download, you give them another offer -OTO- at eg $69 (is this the back end?)

Lets say the person paid the $27 + $69 (about 3x $27), and downloaded both the offers thus paid a total of $86 thus far. - This also means he has trust in you by now.

Is the Call Centre/Coaching the Back end?
Is the Members Area the Back end?
Or is it the OTO, Members Area, and Coaching the Back end?

What would you also place into the Members Area?

Thanks
1 reply

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MaskedMarketer

15 years ago

Originally Posted by radicals

I found this thread interresting to read. I seems the focus shifted to call centres. Do I understand the process right?

First you start with the giveaway product (for listbuilding)
Then you offer them low ticket items max $97 or something (eg an ebook at $27)
When the person have already paid for they get redirected to the 'back end' or download page. Now did you say that here instead of giving the download, you give them another offer -OTO- at eg $69 (is this the back end?)

Lets say the person paid the $27 + $69 (about 3x $27), and downloaded both the offers thus paid a total of $86 thus far. - This also means he has trust in you by now.

Is the Call Centre/Coaching the Back end?
Is the Members Area the Back end?
Or is it the OTO, Members Area, and Coaching the Back end?

What would you also place into the Members Area?

You can have a huge backend line of products and of coaching and consulting needs. In this case he was talking about selling coaching on the backend through outsourcing call centers (which you have to be careful with). Definetly a money maker.

Depending on your industry and how good you can market- a front end product usual goes for less than 1k and normally less than 500. People around here sell stuff for 17-97 on average for a front end product.

The back end usually is where products cost 200-10k or more. Again, it depends on your market and your skills.

As far as backend goes you can have a home study course/ a seminar offline/ an online seminar (webinar)/ coaching, consulting, or any wide variety of information product as a back end.

The customers come in the funnel threw the front end (all paying subscribers) and then you market the higher ticket items. Can be from 500-25k normally- depending how good you are, how serious you are, and your industry.

The money is made on the backend- and it is also wise to create your back end first

Thanks

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Mark Riddle

15 years ago

Just My 2 Cents,

Remember, in situations like the OP mentions, to say it simply,

You are an affiliate of the call center / coaching program,

They do not care what method you choose to bring people into THEIR funnel

Just like working for any other affiliate network, it doesn't matter if you are writing articles, making e-books, doing blog posts, Pay per click, direct mail, radio, TV or telemarketing.

As long as your lead generation method is not against their TOS, then you are fine.

I can see that to many, the concept of $10K-$50K product with generous payouts is new.

I have no idea if the call center is in Utah or not (Centers choose Utah due to privacy laws and securities laws that are not available in other states)

This method is sometimes called the "Hired Headquarters Method" because all levels are hired out.

Mark

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melanied 15 years ago

Call center controversy aside , thank you for the great post!

This will be one I print out and put in my binder.
- Thanks
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*melanie
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MaskedMarketer

15 years ago

Originally Posted by netmalls

You are an affiliate of the call center / coaching program,

Customers of these programs have complained that they didn't know they were getting a generic coaching program for 10k. Thats the problem, the bs that can go on.

Originally Posted by netmalls

I can see that to many, the concept of $10K-$50K product with generous payouts is new.

No, its not new to us, thats why we know whats going on, lol. I used to sell packages just like that.

Being in Utah, on Commissions ONLY, with generous payouts... You don't think someone is going to BS along the way? lol, it happens. As long as its corrected and customers is satisfied that's all that matters.

Originally Posted by netmalls

I have no idea if the call center is in Utah or not (Centers choose Utah due to privacy laws and securities laws that are not available in other states)

This method is sometimes called the "Hired Headquarters Method" because all levels are hired out.
Mark

Too bad the OP doesn't have time to come back to fulfill his promise of giving out the Call Center that is so fantastic. I don't know where his is, but Utah is the call center of call centers. Nothing wrong with that, just need to be careful.

Just need to know who's dealing with your customers.

Those salesman you're speaking to in Utah (most of them) are paid on a commissions only basis. You think that person has your best interests in mind?

Thanks

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gareth

15 years ago

You know I have had a hang up on the coaching thing - because my public speaking is rough - joined toastmasters though LOL.

Anyway what you are saying is we can put somebody elses coaching program on the backend, for a fat commision.

But it could just as easily be a high ticket physical product - right ?

Thanks
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Gareth M Thomas
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Hesaidblissfully

15 years ago

Originally Posted by gareth

You know I have had a hang up on the coaching thing - because my public speaking is rough - joined toastmasters though LOL.

Anyway what you are saying is we can put somebody elses coaching program on the backend, for a fat commision.

But it could just as easily be a high ticket physical product - right ?

Yes, I've seen several other people use this model with an extensive cd/dvd recording set as their high end product, followed by workshops that customers can attend in person.

Depending on your temperament and schedule, you could even do the personalized coaching yourself with a select few people rather than outsourcing it (although outsourcing would probably be more lucrative, you wouldn't have to worry about the quality of the instruction students are receiving because you'd be doing it yourself).

Thanks

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Nathan Denton

15 years ago

Hey Nick,

Great post. Its funny how a genuine post like this can be ambushed by people wanting to question/criticise the author. You click on these posts to find out the info only to fin yourself reading through a mini-slanging match.

Like i send, great post Nick - keep them coming!

Nathan

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Online marketing, offline marketing and various other things.

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Mark Riddle

15 years ago

MM

The focus of my post is the concept of being an affiliate of a high dollar item, with brief overview of why Utah.

Mark

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ToneG

Banned 15 years ago

[DELETED]

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Nightengale 15 years ago

Nick,

I took a look at the site in your signature. The pre-headline reads (in part): "...has not been effected one bit!..."

Shouldn't that be "affected"? No offense, but this mistake (combined with a get-rich-quick look and feel) really damages your site's credibility.

Just thought you'd like to know. I didn't even scroll to the end of the page before I clicked away.

Michelle
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BizBooks

15 years ago

Originally Posted by NickMarks

The best part is they take care of all the coaching. You just send them the leads and you cash your checks each month!

The Call Center takes care of the coaching?

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