The REAL Reason Noobs Don't Believe We Make Money

54 replies
This post is not a knock on anybody, either newbies or gurus. It's a
psychological look into human behavior that might just explain why some of
the successful people online get the reactions that they do and why we see
so many threads like "Who's REALLY Making Money Online?" I hope this
thread might explain some of what's going on. These observations are based
on my own personal experience as well as way to many psych courses in
college.

Essentially what it comes down to is pride. Now that I've given you the
final answer, let me expand on it. Yes, I know you were going to think it
was because as humans we're just naturally skeptical, but that's not it. And
I'll explain why.

We see success everyday. Think about it. You can't go anywhere in the
world without seeing some kind of success.

You turn on your TV and see successful actors, actresses, news anchors
and the list goes on and on. They're all successful people, some making
ungodly amounts of money. I don't even want to know what Oprah is
worth.

Go to your sports events, baseball, basketball, football, even hockey.
Again, people making fortunes. Even the lowest paid stars these days
are making more than I earn, and I consider myself successful.

Look at the business world at people like Buffett and Gates. Do you know
that Donald Trump isn't even in the top 100 of wealthiest men in the
world according to Wiki (don't know how accurate it is)

Point is, we see success everyday of the week and don't even blink an
eye at it. Of course they're successful.

But why? And I don't mean why as in the reality. I mean WHY as in our
perception of reality?

For the actors and actresses, they're handsome and talented and probably
slept their way to the top. This doesn't hurt our pride as much because
we can say, "Hey, if I was that good looking or I slept with so and so, I
could have made it too."

For sports stars, they were born with a gift. They're lucky they have it.
This also doesn't hurt our pride as much because we can say, "Hey, if
I was lucky enough to be born 7 foot 2, I could have played for the Suns
as well."

For the wealthy businessmen, they were born with money. They had it
to begin with to some degree. So we can justify not being up there with
them by saying, "Hey, if my daddy left me millions, I'd be rich too."

But when it comes to making money online, here we are, looking at some
overweight, short, bald, uneducated slob who drinks beer and shoots pool
banking 7 figures a year pimping God knows what, and then we look at
ourselves and realize that they're no better than we are and yet we're
broke.

So we way, "No way that guy is making all that money. I don't believe it."

And the reason we feel this way is because we can't accept that an
ordinary shlub can make a killing online. It's just not possible, not when
we've gone to college, had offline jobs and done other things that some
of these people have never done.

I mean have you heard some of the stories here by folks who are very
successful who dropped out of high school?

It's humiliating for folks who know that they're just as good as these folks
if not better...and yet, they can't make a dime.

So they go into denial. It must all be lies because I can't succeed.

It all comes down to pride.

When I began online, I truly believed that it was possible and when it
didn't happen right away, I didn't understand why. So I had to get a hold
of some folks who were successful and find out how they did it.

It took me 5 months to do that until a retired school teacher from Indiana
got me on the right track. Damn straight I believed she was successful.

Why?

Because I already did believe it was possible.

And sure enough, she taught me stuff and the rest is history.

Yes, believe it or not, I make a nice living online. When a day goes by that
I don't make anything (very rare) I am almost in shock, like "What
happened to the world? Did it blow up?"

I'm no Buffett or Gates, and I'm not even a poor Donald Trump, but I'm
making more money than I ever made as a QA Manager (my last and
highest paying job at 50K) by a truck load.

Believe it or not...there are successful people in IM.
#make #money #noobs #real #reason
  • Profile picture of the author Ken Preuss
    Two enthusiastic thumbs up Steven. You've said it all.

    Belief is the seed for everything.
    Belief is the seed for everything.
    Belief is the seed for everything.

    Ken
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    A Secret to Success: Making serious money online or offline is not complex unto itself - we're the ones who complicate it. Simply sell them what they are already buying.

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  • Profile picture of the author Sean A McAlister
    Nice post Steven.....


    btw....Do you have all of you 10,000 posts in a database for publication in Hard back,,,to become the nxt NY Times Best Seller.

    I bet that book would be thicker than a New York Phone Book maybe two of them put together!


    Sean
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  • Profile picture of the author JPaston
    Good post, Steve, but I think it's even simpler than that!

    Most people are envious of anyone more successful than themselves, no matter what niche that success is in. They actually think 'why can't I be like them?' without actually DOING anything. They think success is handed to people on a plate or they just 'got lucky'.

    In other words they don't realize that success comes from taking action. I know this because I've had people say to me before 'I wish I could do what you do' and, when I take them by the hand and show them how, guess what, they never get round to doing it.

    The world is split into those who do, and those who dream.

    Thank goodness, Steve, I had you as a mentor. Otherwise I might still be dreaming!
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by JPaston View Post


      Thank goodness, Steve, I had you as a mentor. Otherwise I might still be dreaming!
      I wasn't aware I was your mentor (just looked through my past mentoring
      students log) but if I've been able to help you in any way at all, I'm glad.

      Sometimes you wonder if you're really doing any good in the world or just
      spinning your wheels.
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      • Profile picture of the author doop
        Great post! Definately spot on - I've been listening to many of the more successful marketers in my eyes and they all say the same thing (in their own way)....

        Once you can overcome you own self limiting beliefs the rest will come, it may take time and effort but it all starts from believing you can.
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        • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
          Originally Posted by doop View Post

          Once you can overcome you own self limiting beliefs the rest will come, it may take time and effort but it all starts from believing you can.
          The "time and effort" part is what sends most people away. The key is to find one good plan/product and work it all the way through to completion, and then start on another one. I know from experience, working on 50 projects at once just doesn't cut it. Many of those who quit just keep buying one new plan/project after another and never work them through. Of course, the best way is to sell your own product...but I guess that is for another thread.
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    • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
      Originally Posted by JPaston View Post

      In other words they don't realize that success comes from taking action. I know this because I've had people say to me before 'I wish I could do what you do' and, when I take them by the hand and show them how, guess what, they never get round to doing it.
      I have had the exact thing happen countless times. When they realize there is actual work involved and that success is not going to happen overnight, they back away.
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  • Profile picture of the author camforbes
    As always, Steve... great post. Very inisghtful look into natural human behavior.

    I know I'm overweight,
    I suck at pool,
    I'm bald(ing)...
    but I do drink beer and crank out some serious earnings online...

    but how dare you call me a SLOB!

    jk.

    Good stuff!
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    • Profile picture of the author Kevin AKA Hubcap
      Like most things it's a mindset issue first and foremost. It you can begin thinking in the proper way first it much easier to overcome inertia and start doing something productive.

      Cam--nice airplane. Is it an Extra?
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  • Profile picture of the author Mary Gallivan
    Good post Steven. I think it also has something to do with fear and responsibility.

    Fear of being successful. It's a bit like someone winning 10 million or more ( no particular figure chosen) and can't cope with it. There's also the fear of asking what seem like silly questions in order to learn and take the next step. That comes under pride as well though.

    With being successful comes a certain amount of responsibility. Responsibily towards your customers and always providing the best.

    Best wishes

    Mary
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  • Profile picture of the author John Henderson
    Great post, Steven!

    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

    But when it comes to making money online, here we are, looking at some overweight, short, bald, uneducated slob who drinks beer and shoots pool banking 7 figures a year pimping God knows what, and then we look at ourselves and realize that they're no better than we are and yet we're broke.

    So we way, "No way that guy is making all that money. I don't believe it."
    As Brian Tracy puts it: "Nothing makes people more angry than seeing somebody who's dumber than them making more money than they are".
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    • Profile picture of the author marcanthony
      I have a different take on this.

      I think that most people that are new to any business fail to connect with the leadership or the leadership fails to connect with them.

      Everyone has the necessary tools to be successful... we're born with them. Maybe some of us lack drive and inspiration. But, it can be evoked by the right person.

      Take a newbie and send him to two seminars. One held by Frank Kern, the other by Tony Robbins. Maybe Frank Kern brings something out of that newbie that Tony Robbins doesn't.

      Or

      Maybe neither one of them pull it off, who knows. However, I believe that if someone comes along with the right message, they can turn a skeptical newbie or anyone else into a champion.

      Now, I don't take all of the responsibility off of the skeptics. Some of them really are underachievers and want everything handed to them.

      But, sometimes they struggle with getting the message.

      When I was around 23 years old, wet behind the ears in real estate investing, and struggling. It took me an entire year of struggling and listening to Guru's before the light came on.

      In my case, my mother was my leader that turned that light on. She gave me two sentences of advice that instantly turned me into a pro.

      Since then, I've made hundreds of thousands of dollars in real estate, with the proof to back up that claim.

      My point is this: In a black and white world, if a newbie fails, it's their own fault. I just think that sometimes, it's the same unfair rationale that we use when a football receiver drops an uncatchable pass, by saying that "if the ball touches your hands, you should have caught it."

      Sometimes skepticism is present because the message is weak.
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  • Profile picture of the author zeppb
    Nice post Steven. I knew people were making money online well not only knew but believed it. Which is why I had came to you almost 2 months ago and the advice you gave me as well as the information in one of your ebooks helped get me on the right track. I'm forever greatful for that and can't wait for the day that I can become nearly as successful as you.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by zeppb View Post

      Nice post Steven. I knew people were making money online well not only knew but believed it. Which is why I had came to you almost 2 months ago and the advice you gave me as well as the information in one of your ebooks helped get me on the right track. I'm forever greatful for that and can't wait for the day that I can become nearly as successful as you.
      You may not know this, but you and JPaston made my day. The money is
      okay, but there is nothing, I mean NOTHING like really knowing that you're
      making a difference in at least a few people's lives.

      My old psych professor would call that having a God complex or something
      like that, the need to know you matter, but hey, if we don't matter then
      what's the point of even being here? I mean is it just to sit and watch TV?

      Don't get me started on the meaning of life because then we'd be here
      all day.
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      • Profile picture of the author D.K. Magnus
        If it helps you any Steve, since I've been following your postings on WF, I have taken more action than I have previously. I came to the conclusion that, while I might not be willing or able to put in the kind of time you do, surely I could increase my efforts to at least 1/2 of your time and effort.

        Sadly, when I joined this forum over a year ago, I fell for the hype.

        I bought one WSO after another, with promises of little or no work for exceptional income.

        It wasn't that they were all bad WSOs, but the little work that they did asked me to do involved things that I had never heard of and gave me little clue as to how to accomplish them.

        So I would look for the next one that, might ask me to do something I understood or require less effort.

        Eventually I realized that all of the plans I purchased were asking me to do some of the same things and just maybe it was on me to learn and understand them.

        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        You may not know this, but you and JPaston made my day. The money is
        okay, but there is nothing, I mean NOTHING like really knowing that you're
        making a difference in at least a few people's lives.

        My old psych professor would call that having a God complex or something
        like that, the need to know you matter, but hey, if we don't matter then
        what's the point of even being here? I mean is it just to sit and watch TV?

        Don't get me started on the meaning of life because then we'd be here
        all day.
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  • Profile picture of the author mbrown
    Steven,

    It's either they don't believe us or think we all sell porn to earn our living online... lol
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  • Profile picture of the author mudmat
    Another great post by Sir Stevie!

    Believe that you will succeed and you shall succeed..

    But you still need to take action and push all the way!
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  • Profile picture of the author Clyde Dennis
    Once again, outstanding post Mr. Wagenheim!
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  • Profile picture of the author Sean Donahoe
    Great post Steven, another gem to the collection.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      A couple of years ago, I wrote an article called "Context is King", where I touched on some of the same mindset issues.

      Steven, you've often said you're now making over $10k per month.

      Your context is that making that much is doable, and making more than that is realistic.

      For the newbie who has yet to make their first dollar, averaging over $10k per month seems impossible. They've never done it once, and most of them have never met someone who's done it. They have no context in which to place that level of income.

      On the other hand, for companies like Agora or Rodale, your $10k is a lousy day. They would have no interest in how to make $10k per month; they couldn't afford the pay cut. Their context is totally different.

      Moved to another arena, during one of John McCain's appearances on the Tonight Show, the following exchange took place (as closely as I can recall)...

      Jay Leno made some smart-ass remark about an issue. McCain told Leno that Leno should run for President.

      Leno brushed it off as too much work for too little pay - he could make a lot more than the President by doing two hours a night for a week in Las Vegas.
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      • Profile picture of the author ShayB
        Excellent post, Steven!
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  • Profile picture of the author write-stuff
    Hey there, Hubcap. Yeah, it does look like an extra doesn't it. You're a Naval aviator I see. Good Flying! - Russ
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    • Profile picture of the author Himore
      There are too many IM products on the market that promise untold riches in a matter of days, autopilot income.... newbies buy one... doesn't work.... buy another.... doesn't work...

      All they really need to be told is that building an IM business is like building any other business. You match a product with a market, invest time and money, and then more time and effort to build up the business.

      There's a whole lot of great information in a lot of IM products, but they really underplay the effort involved.

      Imagine if I launched a guide - Become A Millionaire Plumber Overnight! "All you need to do is buy some lengths of copper pipe, a soldering iron, and a few tools, stick some ads in the local paper and WATCH THE MONEY ROLL IN!"

      Nobody would believe that, so why do they with IM???

      It's human nature to be sceptical. Unless you see something with your own eyes, of course it is hard to believe for some.

      I have a friend who makes a decent living just playing poker online. His best month was circa $60k. Apart from being able to play poker, he's really just your average Joe.

      I also invest on the Forex market. I don't do the investing, but pay a broker to do it for me. So far this year I've quadrupled my investment. 18 months ago if someone had said this was possible, I wouldn't have believed them.

      Belief is a very powerful thing; you only need to look at religions to witness that! Obviously it can lead to good or bad, but there's no denying it is powerful.
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      • Profile picture of the author MaskedMarketer
        Nice post Steven.

        You are always successful.

        Thats the way I see it. I am never not successful.

        Maybe I'm successful at failing.. But I'm always successful at something at all times
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        • Profile picture of the author Fabian Tan
          I think full-time internet marketing is like a glamor profession. The success rate (from part-time to full-time) makes it appear to be as such. Think of it this way - out of all the would-be singers in the world, most sing as a pastime or sing in pubs or other less 'glamorous' avenues. Only a few become professional and even much fewer become pop stars.

          You do need innate talent to succeed as a singer. There is less of that needed for internet marketing, but it still exists to some degree. At the end of the day, it's those that make the extra effort that succeed and have the autopilot businesses.

          Fabian
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  • Profile picture of the author TheRichJerksNet
    Great post Steven .. Now I want to be just like Steven when I grow up..

    James
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    • Profile picture of the author Hyaku_Man
      Absolutely! People never believe what is outside of their current reality. Great post.
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  • Profile picture of the author grumpyjacksa
    i can only speak for myself.........

    when i first got into the web, i was lured in by mlm promises of riches. which obviously led to disillusioning.

    then i went searching for the magic key, thinking the guru's will never really share their secrets.

    then i came to the WF.........
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeCollins
    This morning I stumbled upon an article on Scientific American that kind of ties into this discussion. It's about the importance of mindset to success. People with a "fixed mindset" tend to believe you have to be born with a natural gift to be successful at something. Those of us with a "growth mindset" believe that we can improve ourselves, learn new tasks, and learn from failure as we teach ourselves to succeed.

    One group is afraid of failure and therefore takes no action, or if they do their "I can never do that" attitude sabotages them. The other group takes action, learns from its mistakes, and works hard to succeed.

    You can read the full article here:
    The Secret to Raising Smart Kids: Scientific American
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  • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
    Banned
    I think the real reason nobody believes, is there is never any proof.

    Why would anyone who is making that much money, spend hours
    writing posts about how much they make?

    There are a few well known warriors who we all know are making
    a lot of money online, but they rarely post, and never make posts
    about how much they earn.
    Their results speak for themselves.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

      I think the real reason nobody believes, is there is never any proof.

      Why would anyone who is making that much money, spend hours
      writing posts about how much they make?

      There are a few well known warriors who we all know are making
      a lot of money online, but they rarely post, and never make posts
      about how much they earn.
      Their results speak for themselves.
      That's not entirely true. Willie Crawford has over 8,000 posts here.

      Paul Myers has over 5,000 posts here.

      John Taylor has over 7,000 posts here.

      I could go on and on. There are many people at this forum who have
      made quite a few posts (and darn good ones too) over the course of
      time that they have been here.

      Now, you want to take somebody like Frank Kern, sure, he hardly posts
      here. But they all don't fit that mold.
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      • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        That's not entirely true. Willie Crawford has over 8,000 posts here.

        Paul Myers has over 5,000 posts here.

        John Taylor has over 7,000 posts here.

        I could go on and on. There are many people at this forum who have
        made quite a few posts (and darn good ones too) over the course of
        time that they have been here.

        Now, you want to take somebody like Frank Kern, sure, he hardly posts
        here. But they all don't fit that mold.
        Yes, but they took a great many years to reach that post count,
        so their posts on a daily basis are rare like I said.

        I don't recall any of the 3 you mention making posts about how much they earn either. They don't need to convince anyone.
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        • Profile picture of the author Neil Morgan
          Unfortunately, copy writing skills are so good that people get sucked in... because they WANT to believe.
          Exactly.

          Isn't it just the IM version of every ad out there?

          - buy this car and you'll get the chicks too!

          - eat this chocolate and you'll still look as slim as this model!

          - clean your floor with this lotion and your floor will look as shiny as this one!

          - use this razor and you'll be as good-looking as this handsome hunk!

          If ads/copy/whatever don't get people visualising the benefit, they don't sell.

          There are just as many people buying the chocolate and finding they get fat as there are buying "make a million" ebooks and not making a million. More actually.

          It's all the same thing.

          Cheers,

          Neil
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          • Profile picture of the author Himore
            Originally Posted by Neil Morgan View Post

            Exactly.

            Isn't it just the IM version of every ad out there?

            - buy this car and you'll get the chicks too!

            - eat this chocolate and you'll still look as slim as this model!

            - clean your floor with this lotion and your floor will look as shiny as this one!

            - use this razor and you'll be as good-looking as this handsome hunk!

            If ads/copy/whatever don't get people visualising the benefit, they don't sell.

            There are just as many people buying the chocolate and finding they get fat as there are buying "make a million" ebooks and not making a million. More actually.

            It's all the same thing.

            Cheers,

            Neil
            Agreed. This type of marketing is EVERYWHERE...

            However... with the examples you gave above, it's mainly merely implied (Gillette don't actually say you'll be a handsome hunk if you use their razor), but with IM there seem to be far more products which explicitly state "Buy this product and you will become rich beyond your wildest dreams".

            Example, from the Commission Blueprint sales page:
            "we are dead set and confident that we'll turn YOU into the next $6000/day super affiliate... and force you all the way to your first online million. No Joke."

            No joke indeed. I'm pretty sure that if General Motors launched a new car with the strapline "Buy the new GM and we are completely confident you will get a stunningly beautiful girlfriend and get that new highly paid career you wanted..." then the Advertising Standards Authority would be on them like a ton of bricks.

            Perhaps that is what the industry needs... some sort of regulation.... (ooer - did I just say that out loud)
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

          Yes, but they took a great many years to reach that post count,
          so their posts on a daily basis are rare like I said.

          I don't recall any of the 3 you mention making posts about how much they earn either. They don't need to convince anyone.
          Well Les, you look at it as convincing, I look at it as inspiration.

          Take Shay (I hope she doesn't mind me using her as an example). She just
          recently had a $300 day. She was thrilled to death and shared it with
          others. Do you know how much that has inspired some people?

          I know my very own posts have inspired quite a few people considering
          my first 5 months online I made $28. No, I'm ashamed to admit it. I had
          no clue what I was doing 6 years ago. But look where I've come (and yes,
          I can prove it). For somebody who is struggling right now, they can look
          at that $28 beginning and have hope.

          See Les, so many people have no hope. They need something to hang
          onto. They need the rags to riches stories. And while you may look at it
          as bragging or BS or whatever, I wear my story like a badge of courage.
          A testimonial to anybody out there that even an idiot who didn't have a
          clue could make a success of himself.

          There is so much negativity out there. There is so much bringing other
          people down. You talk about your success so you're labeled as a BSer.

          That to me is the real BS because go to any seminar, any rally, any
          whatever you want to call it, and you hear these ordinary folks talking
          about how their lives have been changed.

          The irresponsibility comes not from talking about your success, but from
          failing to tell people that it doesn't happen overnight and it's not something
          that comes with no work. That's one thing I have never done. I've made
          it quite clear that I made it to where I am the hard way. If anything, I've
          had plenty of people blast my business model. Well, okay, but it worked
          for me and I'm proud of where I've come to.

          But hey, what do I know? I'm just a dumb schmuck from Roselle, NJ.
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          • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            Take Shay (I hope she doesn't mind me using her as an example). She just
            recently had a $300 day. She was thrilled to death and shared it with
            others. Do you know how much that has inspired some people?
            I wasn't referring to that type of post Steve.
            I agree those are very believable and inspirational too.

            What I was referring to was the "how I made 20,000 in 10 minutes doing nothing" posts, there's a new one almost everyday.

            This must have the reverse effect on any newbie, who after a week here must come to the conclussion he's probably the only one who's not a millionaire yet.
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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

              I wasn't referring to that type of post Steve.
              I agree those are very believable and inspirational too.

              What I was referring to was the "how I made 20,000 in 10 minutes doing nothing" posts, there's a new one almost everyday.

              This must have the reverse effect on any newbie, who after a week here must come to the conclussion he's probably the only one who's not a millionaire yet.
              I agree, those posts are dangerous, and in my opinion should be reported,
              but that's just me.

              Yes, there is too much pie in the sky (I just turned on my PC and made
              a million bucks today) going around, and yes, somebody who's just
              starting out and doesn't know nothing from nothing is going to see that
              and think it's reality.

              It's only reality to the person who has busted his butt for a few years to
              get to the point where they can make money just by breathing. But for
              regular folks, these posts are a major disservice and can't do anything
              but make these people feel discouraged when after 2 weeks they're still
              not seeing the money fall from the sky.

              So there, yes, we are in absolute 100% agreement.
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              • Profile picture of the author Ricky Parker
                The other reason.

                A lot of people don't believe because of the massive amount of bullshiters.

                But really people. It doesn't matter at the end of the day what anyone else does except you.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kingshouse
      Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

      I think the real reason nobody believes, is there is never any proof.

      Why would anyone who is making that much money, spend hours
      writing posts about how much they make?

      There are a few well known warriors who we all know are making
      a lot of money online, but they rarely post, and never make posts
      about how much they earn.
      Their results speak for themselves.
      Exactly what Steve is trying to say. People just don't beleive.

      There is a such a thing as giving back. I have received some real quality stuff for FREE! I do not mean stuff that is floating around all over the internet either. Some of these marketers may never ever post on the warrior forum. Does this mean they have never helped anyone?

      I do not think t really matters how much proof you are given. It comes down to what you beleive! Or rephrasing it a little - Whay you are prepared to beleive.

      I attended a conference a few years back and went up to the front to check this chaps account - he actually uses the same bank as I do. I knew he was making all this money he claimed to be making and was trying to show proof for. He wanted us to start to make this money too. At the end of the day we make money and so does he. I am equally sure that some people in that room would have left thinking "not possible". How much more proof was the guy to show? This chap is still around and raises close to half a million pounds for his favourite charity. His conferences are huge and by the way his business is mainly ofline. He will probably never post here.

      All this said there is a lot of satisfaction in helping others. I have been there and done that for people on my list and I ain't no guru. As the Bible says ..do unto others as you would wish them do unto you.

      Cheerio

      Kingshouse
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  • Profile picture of the author JamesFraze
    Steve,
    The thing I think most "newbs" (as I am a newb in at least several areas) want is some type of instant gratification. I mean, I don't mind working 18 hour days (really I don't), but I want to see that at the end of the day, I grew, even if by a miniscule amount ($10) - as long as it's scalable and repeatable.

    What is the fastest way for me to invest 20 hours a week, and make at a minimimum $3000 a month within a few months, with some results ($100 a week at least) immediately? I've spent too much money on promises so far, so this has to be a cheap solution and only require time and energy.
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    • Profile picture of the author Niche
      In defence of newbies' I was one till recently, the great number of affiliate marketing training ebooks that do not deliver what it says on the pack, is rather off puttting

      Even if you start on the path with enthusiasm and then you buy an ebook that claims to teach you how to, for example, rank well with the search engines, and you read it, and do exactly what the ebook says and...nothing happens, then of course it is easy to get dissillusioned and not believe it's possible to make money in this business

      And there are a lot of those e books around. I know, i bought a few of them
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Lockwood
    I don't know why anyone has trouble believing that some others are making lots of money. Believing they personally can do the same is another issue.
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  • Profile picture of the author Neil Morgan
    Hi Steve

    Great post, as usual.

    For me, a lot of it is about the fact there are no guarantees, meaning, no-one can say with 100% certainty "do this, and you will earn that amount".

    And that's what many people are looking for - a guarantee of success - which no-one can give them, and in their minds, that makes it all seem scammy.

    Happily, some people say, "cool, I know there are no guarantees but I'm going to work at it anyway" while the rest continue on their quest for that ever-elusive guarantee.

    Cheers,

    Neil
    Signature

    Easy email marketing automation without moving your lists.

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    • Profile picture of the author Himore
      Originally Posted by Neil Morgan View Post


      For me, a lot of it is about the fact there are no guarantees, meaning, no-one can say with 100% certainty "do this, and you will earn that amount".

      And that's what many people are looking for - a guarantee of success - which no-one can give them, and in their minds, that makes it all seem scammy.
      Exactly. But show me ANY business where there are guarantees and 100% certainty... but there lies the problem - this business has sites plastered all over the internet stating categorically that "they will guarantee a 6 figure income with little or no effort". Snake oil.

      Unfortunately, copy writing skills are so good that people get sucked in... because they WANT to believe.
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  • Profile picture of the author JamesFraze
    So that takes me back to the "need". How does someone like me, as a noob, get some instant gratification? It doesn't have to be 1000, or even $500 but it should would be nice to do a weeks work and be able to at least take my wife out to dinner.... it is hard to justify to her why I spend every waking moment reading, coding, trying ... but have only a few dollars a day to show for it.

    I do bounce around to different things if after 50 or 80 hours I don't have much to show for my work - so can anyone point me in a path of "here, you won't get rich guaranteed, but at least you can eat" ....?
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    • Profile picture of the author Ricky Parker
      Originally Posted by JamesFraze View Post

      How does someone like me, as a noob, get some instant gratification?

      You don't. Plain and simple.
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      • Profile picture of the author JamesFraze
        I'm talking about being able to feed yourself, even if only for a day.. I don't think my request is unrealistic
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        • Profile picture of the author Himore
          Originally Posted by JamesFraze View Post

          I'm talking about being able to feed yourself, even if only for a day.. I don't think my request is unrealistic
          You mentioned 'coding', so do you have skills in that area?

          If so, you could sell this skill by writing scripts for people or creating simple websites.

          Just done a quick check on Google's keyword tool, and there's no shortage of people searching for 'php programmers' for example.

          Stick something up in 'Warrior For Hire'. Offer to do a couple of freebies to get testimonials...

          EDIT: Just noticed your signature. Certainly looks like you have skills to sell.
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          • Profile picture of the author JamesFraze
            Well, I had meant through adsense/affiliate in something scalable, not an hourly service. I'm trying to get away from hourly stuff and gravitate towards scalable residual. Is there anything that does even $10 a day residual for part time hours? (20 hours a week) I am looking for something scalable, meaning - once you do it, it may not make a bunch, but if you do it over and over, it will soon add up and a clear path of how to make it add up is evident.
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            • Profile picture of the author Himore
              Originally Posted by JamesFraze View Post

              Well, I had meant through adsense/affiliate in something scalable, not an hourly service. I'm trying to get away from hourly stuff and gravitate towards scalable residual. Is there anything that does even $10 a day residual for part time hours? (20 hours a week) I am looking for something scalable, meaning - once you do it, it may not make a bunch, but if you do it over and over, it will soon add up and a clear path of how to make it add up is evident.
              When I bought my last house, I had to get central heating installed. It was a big job. I got a plumber in and he had 2 or 3 guys come and do the job. He didn't do it himself. A few weekends later he pulled up in his brand new Jaguar XKR Sport to deliver the invoice.

              Conversely, another plumber lives on the same road as me. He works solely for himself. Doesn't employ anyone. He drives an old van and an old car.

              What I'm saying is - Don't think short-term. Start off by building a client base (ie. a list) by using your skills. Give them value. Then give them some more. Once they can see how important you are to them, they will be more inclined to take other services and products from you. If you have built a good relationship with a list of 5000 people and you then mail them to pitch them a great new product (maybe one you've created) will make their lives easier for only $47 bucks.... even if only 2% take you up on the offer, that's $4700 from one email.

              Plus, if you have this set up correctly, as more and more people join your list - the sales keep coming in. THAT is the passive income I think you're looking for.

              My plumber driving the Jag probably hasn't soldered a length of copper pipe for years, but he runs the business and brokers the deals.

              He's probably choosing the carpets for his new Bentley as I type.
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            • Profile picture of the author Ken Leatherman
              Originally Posted by JamesFraze View Post

              Well, I had meant through adsense/affiliate in something scalable, not an hourly service. I'm trying to get away from hourly stuff and gravitate towards scalable residual. Is there anything that does even $10 a day residual for part time hours? (20 hours a week) I am looking for something scalable, meaning - once you do it, it may not make a bunch, but if you do it over and over, it will soon add up and a clear path of how to make it add up is evident.
              James,

              The one thing I can think of is article writing and putting up on your site. I recently put up a new site and loaded the articles I had written into it using a special script created by Big Mike of this forum, it's called EZCM (EZ Contact Manager). Within a few days after putting it up Google started indexing and is continuing to index new pages every day. Within two weeks I started making ADSense revenue. My first click through paid me $1.77. It has been growing a little each day.

              By the end of the first month I suspect I will have made enough to take my wife to the TexasRoad House for a feast in baby back ribs two times. Average cost per person about $20.00.

              Now the point is I write the article once, post it to my site and don't touch it again. This money from AdSense is residual income and can be made with say only 20 hours a week or less.

              True $80 to $100 a month is not a fortune but think about it say an extra $1000.00 at the end of the first year, 5 years from now those same articles that I posted to my site will still be there and people will still be clicking on them and maybe my AdSense income will have reached 10K a year or more.

              I also have these same articles I wrote promoting affiliate products. I'm just getting that started so I can't give you any figures for that, but I have no doubt in my mind (believe) I will make sales. Why? Because every article I write is targeted to a niche that has desperate people looking for an answer to their problem. Just like you are.

              The products I'm starting to promote are targeted for these folks, my guess right now is I will make an additional $5K to $10K over the next year. I firmly believe that is going to happen.

              By the way before I forget, I do absolutely no promoting of my site. My traffic is coming from the SE's.

              In addition these articles make me a monthly residual income.

              Did I do this all in one month, no. But I focused in on a plan, believed I could do it and now I am.

              Am I making $10K a month, no way. But I keep Momma happy and build my business every day. So yes I have "Instant Gratification" every day.

              You do a good job of writing your post and I suspect with your knowledge on the technical stuff you could be writing articles and begin seeing income from them in a relative short period of time. Go for it Man. Believe you can do it.

              Ken Letherman
              The Old Geezer
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by JamesFraze View Post

          I'm talking about being able to feed yourself, even if only for a day.. I don't think my request is unrealistic
          Unfortunately, it is. The reasons why will turn this post into one of my
          longest ever and I don't think you want me to go there.

          Suffice it to say, there are two ways to make money online.

          1. Work a job
          2. Sell stuff

          Finding a job online is very hard to do, such as if you want to be a
          transcriptionist. You have to have solid skills. Sure, it's guaranteed pay,
          but not everybody is qualified. A friend of mine from another forum does
          this for a living. But again, she has to do it everyday or she doesn't get
          paid. It's a job, just online instead of offline.

          Selling stuff is selling stuff. There are no guarantees.

          Why?

          You can't force people to buy things. That's just the way it is.

          You can have the greatest marketing methods in existence and they don't
          mean jack if the product you're trying to sell isn't in demand. That's just
          basic business supply and demand. You can't sell igloos to Eskimos.

          On the other hand, you could have the greatest product in the world
          but if you don't know how to market it, you won't sell it, or at least not
          many.

          Ultimately, with affiliate marketing, it comes down to the marketing method
          and not the product because there are plenty of tried and true products
          out there. Just look at the Clickbank marketplace.

          But that's where we get to the real problem with selling.

          (I swore I wasn't going to get sucked into this...arggggg)

          1. You are going against other marketers. You are not selling this product
          by yourself. That means you have to be better than they are to get your
          share of the pie. And let me tell you, some of these guys are killers.

          2. In order to be better, you need skills. The top of that skill list, no
          matter what type of promotion you use, is writing.

          For example, you want to use PPC (pay per click), fine. Better learn how
          to write a captivating 3 line ad to get people to the sales page or you're
          not going to get many clicks.

          Want to use article marketing? Better learn how to craft a quality article
          and write a resource box that brings people to your site.

          I'm going to cut this short otherwise I'll be going on forever.

          The problem is not the system you're using. Well, it could be. But in most
          cases, the problem is the person just hasn't developed the communication
          skills. If you put me against a stone wall and put a gun to my head and
          asked me to choose just one skill that I can retain, it would be, without
          any hesitation, my ability to write.

          It is that ability that has made me my living online.

          And not everybody can do it.

          Now, having said that, there is a shortcut, but it's an expensive one.

          Do the research on the niche you want to tackle (yes, you at least have
          to learn to do niche research) and then outsource the whole damn
          operation.

          Have a pro write your Adwords ads.
          Have a pro write your articles.
          Have a pro write your AR series.
          Have a pro create your squeeze page.

          And so on.

          Don't have the money? Can't afford it?

          Then you have to do it yourself.

          There is no middle ground here.

          And it is because of these variables and a ton more that I don't even dare
          get into, that there is no roadmap that will guarantee you that you will
          make money online.

          And the reason for that is because there is too much human requirement
          that the person add his or her own ability to the mix.

          In brief...what you are looking for doesn't exist.

          If you can't accept that, then my suggestion is to seriously consider
          finding employment in the brick and mortar world.
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    • Profile picture of the author David McAnulty
      Originally Posted by JamesFraze View Post

      So that takes me back to the "need". How does someone like me, as a noob, get some instant gratification? It doesn't have to be 1000, or even $500 but it should would be nice to do a weeks work and be able to at least take my wife out to dinner.... it is hard to justify to her why I spend every waking moment reading, coding, trying ... but have only a few dollars a day to show for it.

      I do bounce around to different things if after 50 or 80 hours I don't have much to show for my work - so can anyone point me in a path of "here, you won't get rich guaranteed, but at least you can eat" ....?
      Your focus needs to be pointed towards a business model. Truthfully if I were you and had the ability to code or create a website then I would jump into some ventures.

      I know this is risky, but hell I will throw it out there. When I first got started I had a lot of good ideas the only problem was I did not have any capital to turn those ideas into a website. I attempted to build my own but my ideas far outreached my capabilities to create the functionality that I wanted to have for my creation.

      It would have been great if a programmer and web developer such as yourself had come along and said "look I will create this website for you, but in return I want a contract drawn up the gives me 50% ownership over all revenue generated by this business." Now is does not have to %50 it can be any percentage.

      Best of all you can pick and choose the ideas you feel have the most potential at being successful. You could even build a website that offers this service to others. Just think of the amount of ideas that would come across your desk and best of all you can fine tooth comb them for the ones you like the most.

      If you can make that successful you will have part ownership over a ton of businesses. Talk about residual income.

      You say you are working 60-80 hours a week and have nothing to show for it. Why not do this and at least make a business out of working for free.
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      David

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