Writers and "Writers"

...And if you DO have someone in your employ who Writes Good Stuff, hope and pray she doesn't wake up, smell the coffee, and go create her own empire instead of building yours

-Bryan

Mike, That is a generous understatement.

The problem is that those who lack the understanding of what makes for good writing are incapable of judging it, in themselves or others. As a rule, these are folks who also don't read much, if at all.

The same lack of understanding is why so many people see crappy writing and describe it as "high quality." It meets the best standards they know, and they can't distinguish beyond that level. Given the number of people whose reading level is below par, it's not surprising that the third rate content often peddled by "article" writers still sells.

Mind you, I'm talking here about stuff that's supposed to be read by humans, not search engine fodder. Whole different animal there.


Paul

I agree with the OP in that content writers need to find the correct market for their level of service and quality. You've also got to find your target customer who is willing to pay you what you ask.

Example: I started my article writing service a couple of months ago, and as I researched the competition, decided on a mid-level price point initially. I was comfortable with that because I have spent several years writing articles for my own marketing and feel my level of writing reflects my experience.

I was able to get paid this rate with no problem. I offer high quality and the feedback so far has been good.

The hard thing is finding a steady stream of clients. This means you've got to really think about who exactly you wish to provide services to - the low end, mid range or high end of the scale. You really have to define yourself and your skill level so you don't choose the wrong customer base.

Things have changed a bit for me since I started out and now I have a successful SEO partner who is providing me with more business. Because his clients are used to paying higher rates, I decided to raise my rates to match that particular market.

I know that not everybody can do this. I feel many writers need to spend years developing their online writing skills before they can offer services on the higher end.
It's a skill that is developed over time and some don't realize that, unfortunately.

But, in the end, your customers will determine your true value and worth and pay you accordingly. If you can prove yourself with the skills then great, if you can't, then it's back to the trenches.

It's true, a grammatically perfect article not only isn't difficult, it might not be the best thing for your niche anyway. Articles should have jsut a little bit of cpoy writing to them to carry the reader through while informing them; it helps greatly with click through rates. I think how much traffic and how well that traffic has converted is a much better indicator of writing skill than the number of articles, but to each their own...

I hate to say it myself, because when I say it, it sounds like arrogant professional whingeing (if there is such a thing, and if not, I just invented it). But I'm very happy indeed for you to say it, and I'll just agree with it.

YES. I agree. Soooo many "writers" out there flat out suck at writing in all of its aspects: grammar, usage, spelling, formatting, getting an idea across, clarity...

I'm not a freelance writer but I do feel for the "legit" ones out there who have to fight really hard to be noticed.

If you're a good writer, you will be able to have alot of connection and be able to get jobs after that. Not a so big deal.

I hate to say it, but a lot of IMers over-estimate the value of their product. I am a champion of quality writing for a living wage in the U.S., but to get conversions you need the reach the right audience with the right offer at the right price at the right time. This usually doesn't happen because most IMers are on a fishing expedition. Yes, testing is the answer, but that costs money too.

I have been writing for decades, and have been writing for the Internet since its inception, and I know how hard it is to hit the sweet spot. No one hits it by writing alone. However, to give yourself a chance I would recommend these principles:

1. Never use a writer from a different country or culture other than the one where you intend to sell your product. Every page is a landing page and each must embody sales psychology. Offshore people say they can write American English (for example), but none say they understand what motivates people to buy things in this culture. That, of course, is essential. Motivation differs by culture.

2. Don't purchase articles or other content based on a cheap price. Buy on the basis of value for money. Buying cheap keeps you forever poor because you end up perpetuating a lousy Return On Investment (ROI). ROI is everything.

3. Pay a good writer, but tweak it yourself. No one knows your business like you do, so you are the one who needs to take responsibility for it. Your tune-up should take into consideration the other key issues I mentioned... the audience, the offer, the pricing and the timing.

Good writing has clarity and is informative and persuasive, but it is not magic.

there are two types of article writers...the ones you hire for quantity, and the ones you hire for quality. I like to get a per page estimate rather than a $0.02/word type estimate. This way, you get what you need without risking an overpay.

I have a quick question for those of you that are legitimate Writers, because I am not an any way, shape, or form. I outsource most of my articles I am not very passionate about or don't know too much about. Mainly because It pays the bills.

I do however, love to write about things I am passionate about such as SEO, Internet Marketing, Fishing, Sports, etc. By no means am I a good writer, but I write anyway because they are my true passions. Do you recommend I hire a professional to look over my copy (or write my copy)... or do I go with my own writing style? Grammar errors and all.. (I've been writing about my true passions for years, more for the joy, rather than the monetary value.)

I guess my point is... Even though I basically suck at writing, my ability to go deep into my passions could potentially outweigh my grammatical errors. Any thoughts?

Content has always been said to be king but some people have always wanted to make it look as if those that churn it (content) out suppose to be slaves.

No, that's a path to insanity. Revisions, yes. Unlimited revision means that you will eventually, no matter how good you are, get a client who insists on tweaking things forever. They will eat your time, your money and probably your soul.

In a former life, I was wrote and directed television commercials for local businesses. As a favor to a friend, I did a commercial for a car dealership. They asked for changes. They asked me to change them back. They asked for new changes. They asked me to change them back.

After sixteen, and I am not making that number up, sixteen different versions I gave them the original version back, telling them it was the new version. They said it was perfect. People will tinker with stuff just because they think they should.

Revisions are good, but you do need to set limits.

The true test of your writing abilities come from what professionals in the field say of you.

I'm not talking about your article writing buddies, I'm talking about pros in the field of novels, screenwriting, journalism and more.

Do you have any of them on any of your sites who give you kudos for your abilities?

Clients who are smart recognize quality. Clients who are out for a quick buck can only see past their purse. Statistics are the key as should they rise from your writing then your client is a fool not to accommodate you. It leads to greater profit.

Another thing is how published you are in other fields. Ever have any of your work in print?

There are levels of writing on a commercial level and for those starting out in IM it can be quite a solid foundation for income and expansion. You learn alot about what your clients' request for. It's like getting paid good money to study.

Good companies and bad companies -- both have products with price tags on them. Ditto for service providers. All these products will sell; only those that deliver the best are purchased again while the bad ones fade into the unforgiving abyss.

About competition

If you are doing everything right and if you have a unique selling proposition while you (as a service provider) keep yourself motivated, competition teaches you things. As OP and Dave opine, your competition also sets you up in the field and lets you know where you stand and where you need to go.

Competition is a non-issue if you are awesome and if you can deliver. Of course, there will be pressure but it's fun. What's business without competition?

Natives Vs Non-natives

It's true that almost everyone who gets online and learns that "Writing/Graphic Design/Web design & Programming/VA Services" are one of the easiest and fastest ways to make money and hence they "think" they can write.

There's a learning curve and everyone has a right to this learning. However, whether you will master it or not-- to the extent that you make a profitable craft out of it -- depends on you.

A price tag awaits those who emerge successful from the learning curve with a segment of buyers waiting to pay for these services. This price depends on value. So really, it's not about $X or $Y, it's about value.


Native English speakers don't necessarily make great writers (Why isn't everyone in Australia a Mathew Reilly? Why isn't everyone a Stephen King, a Donald Trump or a Robert T.Kiyosaki (Side note: Robert wasn't native American). Also, Ayn Rand was a Russian Immigrant who settled in the U.S and wrote "Atlas Shrugged" and "The Fountain Head" -- some of the best books ever written.

Further, I couldn't have said it any better than Paul Myers

And yes, pay your writers well

Frustrated with your writers?

Well settle in while old uncle T explains a few things ...

How many publishers understand what they are buying when they order an article? I mean, if you buy a car you might know how many seats it has, service intervals, insurance and registrations costs, fuel consumption, depreciation and resale values. Buy a house and you might look for termites, check out the neighborhood and see if it is convenient to schools and malls.

But do you really understand articles?

The answer is no, otherwise this thread would not exist. I want you to think about content this way (just fill in the blanks) -

The first step in any article is the research. How long do you feel is a reasonable time for a standard writer to research your chosen article topic?

I want you to spend _____ minutes per article.

Now, what can you expect?

5 minutes - go to an article directory or another site and steal what they have written about.

15 minutes - read through a few articles and generalize

60 minutes - find genuine issues with the topic and create solutions that will get people to take action.

So that is the research PER article. Now lets look at the writing phase.

I expect you to type _____ words per minute for a draft.

Again, what can you expect?

50 words per minute - type faster than you can think. I don't care if it is crap, just type!

20 words per minute - yeah ... I can see what you are trying to say, but are all those filler sentences really necessary?

5 words per minute - wow ... just ... wow. This is a link magnet!

Lastly we have editing. Any writer that is worthwhile hiring will let his or her work sit for a while.

I would expect you to spend _____ minutes editing per article.

Our last look at expectations -

2 minutes - did you write this in swahili or a secret code? It has way too many mistakes. But great to spam with.

5 minutes - EZA rejected your articles! I thought you were a WRITER!!!!

25 minutes - wow ... again .. .just wow.

So for the buyers out there who want quality, a good article is going to cost you 2 to 3 hours of work.

Go to a professional writer and they won't even fart in your direction for less that $40 per hour. You do the math on the cost of good content in this case.

But then we get publishers saying ..."$100 per article!!!! But I can get that on rentacoder for $4." And this is where we get rants like this one from. It is impossible for a native speaker to produce content at the desired standard for that price. For anyone who loves a laugh on buyers just like this, check out http://clientsfromhell.net/

The only way for a skilled writer to deliver semi-reasonable content on time and in budget is to take a PLR article, rewrite it and pass it off as all his or her own work. Alternatively, hire a Filipino writer for the research and draft and do the final editing stage personally.

Let me leave you with this though ... which is the better business investment?

$100 investment in an article that makes you $200.

$4 investment in an article that earns you $2?

Are you in business, or is this just a hobby?

I have always tried to get through to my students that they should compete (as writers) on value rather than price, because there will always be those gems of writers who work for very little pay, and others who overcharge and don't deliver value at all.

I have been writing for ten years and love it - I am also a know-it-all on so many topics that I bore my friends and family - but it serves me well in what I do. But recently I had a need to outsource three of what I thought were short easy topics and I was really disappointed with the work I received. One set was completely unusable, but I really had to think about the other two I had received. Was I biased against them because they didn't write in my style, or were they full of so many mistakes it was quicker to rewrite them than edit them. I rewrote them from scratch simply because I think I am one of those writers who has a very established way of saying things, and I tend to attract clients that want that style in their products.

But my students will tell you that writing is not easy and writing for clients can actually be quite daunting. After showing my students a few examples of requests I had for projects, a couple of them promptly came back and asked me if there were other ways of making money from writing because the client demands seemed "too hard".

So while there are cases of writers who overstate their skills; and there will always be writers who are in the game for a quick dollar and soon realize that a decent business actually takes work and discipline; there are some real gems online and I echo the sentiments of MYOB - "pay your writers well", or they will go off and write their own products

back to work
Lisa

I think some of the points mentioned are valid, to a degree. However, I know many article writers that have more work than time, and these writers are not churning out $5 articles, but actual articles that are worth reading.

I should point out that I don't write articles for others, just so you know I don't have a dog in this fight. I used to, and still receive offers of work on a regular basis, but it's not my thing anymore.

One problem I see in the vast majority of the cheap articles is that they have no personality. If you are an article writer that spends all day everyday typing as fast as you can, not properly researching anything and remaining disconnected from your work, stop. Make a new game plan, start over and this time remember that people will read your articles, possibly hundreds of people, so try to make a difference.

I remember about a year ago I wrote this article for a client, and in the middle I got completely side tracked and started talking about quantum mechanics, and even told a slightly rude joke. He understandably thought I had gone mad when he received the article, but he put it on his site and it did extremely well for him. After that I was able to charge him twice the price and he happily paid it, but he never understood what made that article work. It was because the reader suddenly realized that what they were reading was actually written by 'someone'. It sounds stupid I know, but if you work on creating articles that bridge that writer-reader gap, suddenly your articles are worth far more than the information they contain.

One other problem that I see many writers face is the content-writer/sales-copywriter clash. I often see people advertising themselves as both, but the two types of writing are only connected due to the fact they both involve a keyboard. I was no different myself, and constantly thought I could write copy because I can write content, but it just isn't true. Copy and content are very different, and often require exclusive abilities. If you write content then your only job should be to engage the reader, break that internet divide and grab their attention. When writing sales copy you need to motivate people to do one specific task, and even their liking you is not necessarily that important. So stick to what you can do, or expect people to put a low value on your skills.

Back to the OP in regard to writers fighting for scrap, and I have to say it just isn't true. I do realize there is a race to the bottom going on, with everyone trying to undercut each other, but most serious business people avoid these writers like the plague. Set you standards higher, try and be the best at what you do and people will pay for your time. More important than the extra money, is the fact that if you base your writing business around creating top quality, engaging content, you can reclaim your self respect.

I think I have taken up more than enough of your time, so I'll get back to work.

My 2c,
Colin Palfrey

P.S. I don't write articles anymore, and I am fully booked for my other writing related services. So no this post is not self promotional before you jump to that conclusion. This is just a subject I know about, and couldn't resist resist trying to prod the SEO writers in the audience into expecting more of themselves.

That's what I love about you Kevin: you're so loquacious.

Exactly

Good points! I think working for Demand Media has really helped me to improve my writing skills within the last two years. They are picky about passive voice and I learn a lot by tracking changes that the editors make. Writing is a process and the best articles keep the readers attention. DM only pays $15 per article, so I think I might start applying for ghostwriting positions. I still have issues with commas, and some style issues, but I do my best and my work sells.

Well I are am greatful for all the bad writters be cause it makes us gooder writters look even betterer. If every body writed as gooderer as me, then my writting wouldn't stand a part from them like a bee can in the dark.

Nice suggestion, some of the best outsourced articles are from non-native English speaking countries

You forgot Arthur C Clark. I think reading alot of his work is like standing in the past, looking at the present.

I do love "Stranger in a Strange Land", and think I have finally read it enough times that I Grok to fullness. A fantastic book that should probably be compulsory reading for any aspiring writer, just because of the way Heinlein draws the reader in.

Possibly a short quiz concerning the books the prospective writer has read would be a better gauge of their abilities, or at least of their literary intent. For instance, do they intend to move the reader, or to fill a page?

Admittedly it may be hard to inspire a reader while writing "Genital warts - part 4" but I like to think a tear could still be brought to the eye.

Cheers,
Colin Palfrey

I agree.
I am an English speaking, Platinum level author at Ezinearticles, and I spend tons of time making each article great.

The result is I constantly get articles picked up by publishers.

Spend the extra time to do it RIGHT!