You'll Never Make It In IM Today. I've Been There.

by KenSilver 52 replies
Over the years on this forum I keep reading posts where Warriors are having continuing problems finding their IM niche. Trying this and that, and getting nowhere. They're not making money or sales, and it's an uphill battle for them.

Part of the problem is the promise, the allure of Internet Marketing - seems like everybody is making 100 grand a month from it. We know the reality is sometimes different (Fake Check?).

So, for all of you who are lost in this gigantic world of marketing and money possibilities, but can't seem to get anywhere, here's a little story about what worked for me. Hope it will help you look in a different direction.

Back in the early 90's I was having good success with a lottery system I spent a couple of years developing. Now, before you click away thinking that this kind of stuff is corny or bogus, let me tell you that it started out as a personal challenge. I wanted to accomplish something in life that hadn't been done before, that promised a lot of money and was intellectually stimulating.

And this worked. After winning weekly for a long while, I then sold my system nationally in a mail-order 'how to' manual, using some very successful direct mail campaigns.

Then I was thrown into the IM ring when I successfully sold the system on the net in the mid-90's. Again, later, I wrote about my success, and the 420 page "eBook Secrets" was born. (Not available now). That sold tens of thousands of copies over a few more years.

Here's the interesting bit. My IM career ebbed and flowed, and eventually petered out, but the sales of my lotto system kept on rising.

Eventually I tossed in my title of 'how-to guru' and concentrated on what was working. I gave up mainly because there were a lot of smart and fast people passing me by. I simply didn't have the will or energy to spend countless hours keeping up with the latest ploys and techniques. (As it happens now, I didn't have to... I'm using most of the same methods I did when I first started in 1995 on the net, and still getting increasing success. The smart-kids have long crashed and burned).

But here's my point.

People trying to get on the IM bandwagon, with limited knowledge and years, are going to find it almost impossible to beat the Frank Kerns, the John Reeses and Rich Schefrens of this exclusive world. Not only have they got the movie star looks, youth and energy, but they speak long of wise things. They are bright stars at their peak. Hard acts to follow - even for me, a 13-year veteran of the commercial internet.

So this is what I found actually works: I do what has successfully worked for me in the past.

Everyone has some talent, skill or knowledge that causes others to be impressed or have praised you. All we need to do is find it, and convert it to money. A while back, in a period of career stagnation, I had to determine what would work for me, or die broke. So I went back in my work life as far as I could, and looked for areas where I had enjoyed continuing success.

I had to face it, only my lotto system stood out as the true winner.

It wasn't a perfect answer either. I'm a conventional kind of guy, and I really wanted a 'sophisticated' vocation - one that would bring me international respect and maybe a Nobel Prize later on. But through all the ups and downs of my life, the lotto system was the only consistent earner above everything else I had attempted... all the newspapers, the pizza places, the investment properties.

So I stuck with what worked.

But I didn't stop at one product. I expanded it over the years:

- Started with the basic system for my country only.
- Expanded the system to work in a few more countries.
- Built that product list up to over 35 games.
- Worked until the system would run in most countries.
- Developed new specialized products based on the original product.
- Added a membership site (if you do nothing else - get this!... it's a goldmine!)

I guess what I'm saying is, I did what worked for me in the past. I built on it, developed it, grew it. From Warren Buffet down to the fourth generation corner store grocer, the world's winners all do the same. They spend their life in a focused groove, paring and pruning and growing their talent.

Now, there's another part to this story. You need an edge.

Success means you must eliminate the competition by being different. To do that you MUST build something that is protected. Think Coco Cola. Same with my lotto system... the proprietary secret is hidden. Don't rely on patents - anyone can replicate those with a bit of work. What you develop must be unique and unbreakable.

Recognize your past success, polish a unique concept, and work it ruthlessly. I'm saying forget Internet Marketing, and go for areas with less competition, but in your own area of past success. Worked for me.
#main internet marketing discussion forum #make #today
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  • Profile picture of the author VegasVince
    You hook me up with the secret to hitting the Pick 6 Lottery...and I will totally give you a testimonial.


    xxx Vegas Vince
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    • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
      Funny, the way I read the subject line was:

      "You'll never make it in IM...", I've been there.
      (the thought) -------> (experience trumping emotion)

      Then he went on to show them how they CAN make it in IM if they simply stop trying to join the guru merry-go-round and find something that works for them and stick with it.

      In his case, a lottery information product (line).

      Valid points all, IMO.

      Or I'm WAY overthinking.. It happens.

      I now resume thinking about getting my truck packed for Key Largo and hitting the turnpike SOUTH baby...

      Have a good one everybody...

      Brian
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      • Profile picture of the author chris_surfrider
        Strange thread title.

        Here's something that might help someone who's reading this to see things for what they are:

        If you want to "make it" in the IM market and NOT be just another one-trick-pony with endless sales pitch emails, this is the over-riding, absolute secret to standing out and making a massive splash even with a small list:

        ACTUALLY GIVE A DAMN.

        The widespread & viral effect of giving a damn and only providing GOOD stuff will quickly escalate you from being just another idiot behind a computer screen - to someone who can genuinely improve other's lives.

        When you make that transition - believe me - you can be a total nobody, and if you've got something to offer that's sold WITHOUT the usual rah-rah-rah bullshit, you can make a serious entrance into a market that is saturated with hype.

        Become an anchor of logic, morals and trust in your market.

        THAT is how it's done.

        Getting affiliates at that stage is a breeze.

        Writing sales copy becomes simple because you're not "selling" - you're GIVING.

        Communicating to your list is easy because you ONLY email them cool, good stuff.

        Pretend you're a TV Channel competing for "face time" on a busy satellite lineup of options...

        Why would anyone watch the infomercial channel all day long when they could watch movies, crime shows, etc?

        GIVE A DAMN.

        That's the secret.

        -Chris
        Signature

        Making 6 Figures From Affiliate Marketing is Easier Than You Think. Here's Proof:

        http://www.TheLazyMarketer.com

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        • Profile picture of the author Chris Lockwood
          Originally Posted by chris_surfrider View Post

          Why would anyone watch the infomercial channel all day long when they could watch movies, crime shows, etc?
          Have you heard of QVC and Home Shopping Network? Their success seems contrary to your point. Some people like watching them, obviously.

          People do watch infomercials. If they didn't, the infomercials would not make money and would stop running.
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          • Profile picture of the author kf
            There's a kernel in the OP that could change the thread title to 'You'll Never Make it ... Unless'.

            One thing Ken mentioned is building on what you already know, or on what you are doing that is already working. This is certainly an easier approach than constantly trying new things and/or building a knowledge base from scratch.

            I'm not advocating that you don't branch out, but if you have success in one area and build on it 'til you have consistent success there, you can then try/learn new things.

            P.S. Please send me the winning numbers for this week's lottery.
            Signature
            Those who stand for nothing, fall for anything. ~ Alexander Hamilton
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            • Profile picture of the author KenSilver
              Originally Posted by kf View Post

              ...P.S. Please send me the winning numbers for this week's lottery.
              Sure kf, I'll get them to you Monday
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              • Profile picture of the author CyndiHester
                I agree kf, focus on what you are doing now that is working!
                Then once that money path is steadily streaming in your favor,
                move on to building another source of income.

                It is so easy for people to keep trying new things and
                yet accomplishing nothing.

                Focus is key to me.
                Signature

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          • Profile picture of the author Ray Erdmann
            "...Most people are trying to sell "how to make money" books while having never really made money...I'm not sure where in someone's head that even starts to make sense but it's the norm...
            I disagree! Ever hear the names Butch Harmon, David Ledbetter, Rick Smith or Hank Haney?

            If not..then how about names like Tiger Woods, Ernie Els, Nick Faldo, Phil Mickelson?

            If so, then you probably know that Butch Harmon coached Tiger for most of Tiger's PGA Career, and we all know how many Major Championships he has. Butch has also just recently started coaching Phil, himself a 3 time Major Winner...While Tiger is now being coached by Hank Haney.

            Ernie Els worked with David Ledbetter for years, before moving on to Butch Harmon (And folks wonder why Butch was voted #1 Teacher recently?)

            Now, if you know anything about golf, then you know that Harmon, Ledbetter, Haney and Smith didn't have really jaw dropping careers as actual Professional Golfers...Matter of fact, they had very marginal careers! Yet their knowledge about the 'golf swing' and the mechanics of what makes one swing 'good' and another 'great' and how to spot 'flaws' in someone's swing and the ability to articulate how to 'fix it'...far exceeds that of any other swing coach.

            Thus, why would these professional golfers, who have won so many of golf's greatest championship, seek out the experience and knowledge of someone who never had a stellar career as a professional golfer and have turned to being a 'swing coach?'

            Because Harmon, Haney, Ledbetter, Smith and even Dave Pelz, who himself never even played golf, but came over to the 'short game' of golf after being an Scientist at NASA of all places, truly UNDERSTAND the concept of the golf swing and every club from the driver all the way down to the short-stick. (That's the 'putter' for you non-golfers! LOL!)

            Therefore, IMHO, one does not need to have acheived super-stardom, or be raking in over 5 figures a month in the IM world in order to be a 'teacher'.

            Hell! I'm sure for a lot of newbies just starting out, who know nothing about IM or what it takes to really get their business off the ground, and are or were confused at some point by the "lingo" we used or found themselves suffering from 'analysis paralysis' after reading so many 'how to' books, wished they could have found someone who could 'relate' the importance of all aspects of Internet Marketing (Setting Goals, Finding Niches, Setting up blog/web site, generating traffic, email marketing, etc., etc. ) to them in 'easy to understand, here's what it means, this is what is going to happen if you follow this path' type of reasoning, they'd be certain of seeing/fnding success a lot sooner!


            Just my $0.02...even though most folks would only pay me $0.01 for my thoughts! LOL!


            Ray

            PS: As for the post
            "...In my opinion (as someone who does make a living from the net), is that most people just don't want to put in the effort. They want the easy way through, the "secret" formula of success. The don't have what it takes - call it commitment, work-capacity, will, imagination, whatever! They just don't have it.."
            I have ADD....what's your solution to me 'making it' in the IM world?

            PPS: IMHO, QVC & Home Shopping Network are NOT Informercials, when compared to ones for say 'Bowflex', "Tax Lien Investing", or any thing promoted by Don Lapre! ;-)
            Signature

            "Whether you think you can or not...you'll always be 100% right!" |

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            • Profile picture of the author Joshua.Taylor
              Nice post. A fabulous example of Frank Kern's "mind control" method. Notice how Ken was able to tell this story that gave some nice content and, in actuality, did a great job of promoting his own product without actually "promoting" it.

              Nice job
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              • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
                In one way I agree with this...

                If you honestly think that the only way to be successful in internet marketing (or any business) is by competing with others then you should probably forget the internet
                marketing niche if you're starting out.

                The "competition" will kill you.

                But if you understand that the true nature of success in business is to find an unserved subniche and provide exceptional products and services to that subniche then you'll do just fine.

                You'll also have no real competition.

                It's easy to dominate when you're the only big fish in a small pond.

                Kindest regards,
                Andrew Cavanagh
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                • Profile picture of the author admin
                  Administrator
                  Good grief...

                  Does anyone here ever think about PAYING for advertising?

                  Yea you remember, the stuff that used to happen before the Internet.

                  Get a "paying" system in place that works and this nonsense about competing with someone else because they are funny and entertaining becomes just that, nonsense.

                  Get real people...the only competition some of you have is between your ears..

                  Allen
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                  • Profile picture of the author John Rowe
                    Originally Posted by admin View Post

                    Good grief... the only competition some of you have is between your ears..
                    Hey, Dammit! I resemble that remark.


                    .
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                  • Profile picture of the author Stuart Stirling
                    Originally Posted by admin View Post

                    Good grief...

                    Get real people...the only competition some of you have is between your ears..

                    Allen
                    great line.

                    If you think you can't make it in IM Ken, then you're right.

                    I'm no Kern or Scheffren....and might not ever be, but even
                    I can make some nice pocket money in the "IM - make money
                    online niche"...so there is proof that the small guy can make it.

                    I do congratulate you on getting a cool product like silver lotto
                    up and out there...and I totally agree that to to get noticed
                    by everyone, you have to have something extraordinary.....
                    like coke.....or the warrior forum!

                    Stu
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                    • Profile picture of the author daddyoh
                      Author, Danielle Steele is an offline example of someone who found a niche and stuck with it for the long-term. She continues to work this niche because it works for her.

                      She writes "escapist" type novels for those that want to be entertained by that kind of reading.

                      She has around 570 million copies sold and holds the Guiness Book of World Records record for longest fiction book on the NY Times Bestseller list: 390 weeks I believe it is.

                      She uses an old Smith-Corolla manual typewriter, writes in a flannel nightgown and sometimes writes for up to 18-hours a day.

                      Talk about going to work in your pajamas...

                      Her first novel did not get good reviews, but she kept at it and stuck to what she is good at, what she knows and what she enjoys.

                      She found her niche, expanded it, stuck with it, prospered and still does to this day.
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              • Profile picture of the author KenSilver
                Originally Posted by Joshua.Taylor View Post

                Nice post...Notice how Ken was able to tell this story that gave some nice content and, in actuality, did a great job of promoting his own product without actually "promoting" it...
                Well, I've never gotten any more sales in the past from posting here - it's a different audience. And my intention was never to sell anything.

                I left my sig link in out of ingrained habit... the true sign of a hardcore marketer
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            • Profile picture of the author Jelasco
              Originally Posted by Ray Erdmann View Post

              I disagree! Ever hear the names Butch Harmon, David Ledbetter, Rick Smith or Hank Haney?

              Now, if you know anything about golf, then you know that Harmon, Ledbetter, Haney and Smith didn't have really jaw dropping careers as actual Professional Golfers...Matter of fact, they had very marginal careers! Yet their knowledge about the 'golf swing' and the mechanics of what makes one swing 'good' and another 'great' and how to spot 'flaws' in someone's swing and the ability to articulate how to 'fix it'...far exceeds that of any other swing coach.
              Oh, please don't compare newbies teaching others to golf coaches. A better comparison would be if I just played my first round of golf, shot 200 on 18 holes, and tried to present myself as a golf coach.

              Certainly you don't think the newbies being discussed here are comparable to those coaches you mention. Even if those coaches had marginal careers, they were better than the vast majority of amateur golfers.
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        • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
          Originally Posted by chris_surfrider View Post

          ...GIVE A DAMN.

          That's the secret.

          -Chris
          Well said Chris. I was going to say the same thing except "Give an F---!!" But it means the same thing.


          Success means you must eliminate the competition by being different. To do that you MUST build something that is protected. Think Coco Cola. Same with my lotto system... the proprietary secret is hidden. Don't rely on patents - anyone can replicate those with a bit of work. What you develop must be unique and unbreakable.
          Ken, great to see you posting in here. Over all it was a good post but I disagreed with the above paragraph in one aspect.

          I can think of several niches that I'm involved in right now where I work closely with my competition, some of them have my partners for years. Though I understand what you're saying, I don't agree you "must eliminate the competition" and "MUST build something that is protected". Obviously that would help, but I don't think it's necessary for success. I rarely market to the IM niche and 99.999% of my income comes from regular niches like weight loss, dating, etc. and I've found it easier to work with my competitors and make myself stand out by having better products and customer service than they do.

          I leave with one of my favorite quotes:

          "Take care of your customers and the competition will take care of itself." -The Late Cory Rudl

          My 2 cents,

          Rod

          p.s. Allen, the new forum kicks some serious azz....
          Signature
          "Your personal philosophy is the greatest determining factor in how your life works out."
          - Jim Rohn
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  • Profile picture of the author SpicyRobby
    Originally Posted by KenSilver View Post

    Over the years on this forum I keep reading posts where Warriors are having continuing problems finding their IM niche...
    This is the most important point in your post, Ken!!!

    The biggest start-up mistake is trying to find an IM niche -- selling stuff about IM!

    The first thing that comes into many peoples' mind is selling something ABOUT IM. No - we have to USE IM to sell in OTHER niches - simple as that!

    Originally Posted by KenSilver View Post

    ...I'm saying forget Internet Marketing, and go for areas with less competition, but in your own area of past success. Worked for me.
    And works for me, too! My businesses are still selling-related (i.e. where people will make money from using my products), but they're not IM related.
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    • Profile picture of the author Hardi Wijaya
      Nice to see you here! Wise words from the Kiwi.

      Anyway, I've yet to win any money. Perhaps it's different system.


      Hardi
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      • Profile picture of the author LB
        Most people are trying to sell "how to make money" books while having never really made money...I'm not sure where in someone's head that even starts to make sense but it's the norm.

        After 10 years doing this I finally feel like I'm at a point where I could really author a product that would bring something new to the table...but I'm not sure I even want or need to.

        Being a "guru" is just like anything else though- you just need to find your angle on it. You don't need to be the young tech-type, you can be the old grumpy trench-worn marketer or whatever you want...what matters most is your confidence in the role and the info you provide.
        Signature
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        Click Here.
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        • Profile picture of the author ctutt
          "Most people are trying to sell "how to make money" books while having never really made money...I'm not sure where in someone's head that even starts to make sense but it's the norm." My Nephew is always asking me for financial advise. I tell him: If you want good advise ask someone who is really successful in the genre of your question. Don't ask just anybody!

          It's a real shame that most of the "Success Gurus" have made and are making their money at the expense of naive dreamers (like me) who buy into their "spin" of words and promise of wealth untold and dreams come true. But they, like many psycholigists, therapists, ministers, counselers and others, got into their "calling" because they themselves were lacking (in their own self image) and were searching for answers just like you and I.

          Some of them/us finally "grow-up", at least "we" think so, and begin to offer to all who will hear, glimpses of truth tempered and seasoned with bits of insanity, based on our "perceptions" of our life experiences. We all keep doing/believing/saying the same things to/for ourselves while expecting something different (success-fulfillment of our dreams).

          Nothing changes until YOU DO!

          Oh..., the dollars, hours, weeks, years of "investment" "study", "meditation", reading and attending classes and seminars! I NOW PROCLAIM MYSELF TO GURU STATUS!
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    • Profile picture of the author IM Ace
      Hey Ken!
      Nice twist in the post to the title. The transfer to the new forum seems to have played foul with your signature, get that corrected.
      Signature
      I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.
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    • Profile picture of the author zlchamp
      Hi all,

      This is a great dialogue. With 38 years of business building I have what might be a slightly different angle on this.

      At the end of the day, the single biggest mistake people make when considering a business is thet start by looking 'out there' for the answer. This NEVER actually works.

      This is why so many people struggle and strain to become successful in business. This is why so many people get to the end and just do not feel they are as successful as they intended to be.

      Success is not about finding niches, predicting market trends, and cutting big deals.

      I expect that some of you will argue this point, but success in business is NOT about hard work, sacrifice, struggle and frustration.

      Success in business, as in life, comes from the inside and is expressed outwardly in the way you ive your life and form relationships.

      If you are in business and are struggling, you need to re-evaluate your choice of businesses.

      If you business seems like hard work and sacrifice, you want to reconsider what you are up-to.

      Check this out: A Relevant Story About Really Achieving Your Childhood Dreams

      A Relevant Story About Really Achieving Your Childhood Dreams
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  • Profile picture of the author wilson765
    Hi Ken,

    Great post.

    I am such a buyer. I went straight for your link at the bottom. (you may want to change the code in your cp to get it to work. This will do it I think:

    "["url=http://www.silverlotto.com/]Make every playday a payday with the Silver Lotto System[/url"]"

    Remove the " " from round the [ and the ] to get it to work)

    I'm still looking for that ultimate product to create but this has helped me to keep up the search.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Hardi Wijaya
      Actually the answer could be that simple. It's not that newbies can never make it in IM. It just that they don't sell what people want. Once they've something that people want, they just have to twist the selling approach.

      I agree there're competitions and big players. But it just shows that there's money in IM business.



      Hardi
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      • Profile picture of the author Kevin Riley
        Well, I'll have to be the fly in the ointment, because I disagree with your subject line. Just because you didn't succeed in IM, does not instantly preclude that others who enter this field now will "never make it in IM".

        I believe that any one who applies themselves - and actually thinks rather than just follows - has the chance to succeed in IM. There will always be a need for fresh new ideas.

        The Frank Kerns, John Reeses, and Rich Schefrens do not hold a monopoly, and there is nothing saying you can't compete with them. Just as small companies do very well filling the gap that big companies ignore, so new marketers can fill the gaps that these well-known players leave.

        Think outside the box.

        Let nothing hold you back. Least of all, posts like this that tell you you can't do it.

        Some of us are doing it quite well, thank you.
        Signature
        Kevin Riley, Kevin Riley Publishing, Osaka, Japan


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        • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
          Banned
          [DELETED]
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          • Profile picture of the author celente
            IM is constantly changing....as it changes...so to it makes room for more gurus...

            changes...mean..the market needs more information....

            so this post is worthless...sorry!

            anyone can make it in any niche....they just have to apply themselves.

            Frank kern was a nobody, until, one day he took action....whoa! fancy that...take action...make plans... study your market....give them what they crave and you ill make it regardless.

            now stop posting these ridiculous threads...that have no meaning and get back to work.
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            • Profile picture of the author Kevin Riley
              Originally Posted by celente View Post

              IM is constantly changing....as it changes...so to it makes room for more gurus...

              changes...mean..the market needs more information....

              so this post is worthless...sorry!

              anyone can make it in any niche....they just have to apply themselves.

              Frank kern was a nobody, until, one day he took action....whoa! fancy that...take action...make plans... study your market....give them what they crave and you ill make it regardless.

              now stop posting these ridiculous threads...that have no meaning and get back to work.
              True! If Kern hadn't taken action he'd just be another Georgia redneck who likes to surf.
              Signature
              Kevin Riley, Kevin Riley Publishing, Osaka, Japan


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              • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
                I have to disagree strongly...

                I've been supporting my family full force from IM... it ain't the niche.. it's the people...

                And your title is misleading...I can see the point your trying to et across, but the way in which you did it is wrong, and you have taken from your experience some things that don't and never will necessary apply to other people...

                I've never had the short luck that you appear to have had... It ain't been easy, but I do well..

                Peace

                Jay
                Signature

                Bare Murkage.........

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                • Profile picture of the author stressfree
                  so how do you do this sellnig info? It can't be done. As soon as you release it there will be 1,000+ clones?
                  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  To do that you MUST build something that is protected. Think Coco Cola. Same with my lotto system... the proprietary secret is hidden. Don't rely on patents - anyone can replicate those with a bit of work. What you develop must be unique and unbreakable
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                • Profile picture of the author Chipt
                  Hey, Ken -

                  Well said... brilliant IMO...

                  As you speak from your own specific experiences, and you give specific ideas and info based on your specific learning curve -- I find your post true and valuable.

                  Some people will bring up valid points of dissention. Others will post merely to be heard. Nevertheless, it is not logical or reasonable IMO for one person to argue that another person's specific experiences are not true, viable, or germane.

                  I am all for lively discussion. Good and thoughtful discussions can help all the readers. I also think the collaborative model is a marvel. And I respect everyone's right to have an opinion. Period.

                  But to argue that one person's real and true experiences and opinions are less than valuable to everyone who reads them... I don't understand that...

                  ... and as long as people are polite and constructive, and the experience stated and the opinions offered are honest, everyone can learn from them...

                  Again, I respect and appreciate your candor, and appreciate the gift of your time here to explain your specific IM experiences to the readers and offer your best advice to anyone who will listen.

                  All best wishes to you -

                  Chip Tarver

                  PS -- I also believe that anyone who is honest will tell people that the IM space is crowded, noisy, and filled with sharks. Indeed. That said, there are some strong little salmon who will stream upstream against the tide until they reach their IM goal. Or get eaten.

                  PPS - We who have made the tough IM journey all started from the same place, and we know that success here boils down to diligence, determination, and differentiation. A healthy measure of tenacity and a thick skin help as well. And anyone who will invest the time and money, and 'pay the price,' can still have some success in the IM space IMO... and I do not say these things to back-pedal from my points above concerning your post...
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                  • Profile picture of the author John Taylor
                    Originally Posted by Chipt View Post


                    But to argue that one person's real and true experiences and opinions are less than valuable to everyone who reads them... I don't understand that...
                    Chip,

                    I'm not seeing what you are seeing. I don't see anyone
                    saying there's no value in Ken's post.

                    What I do see is a very misleading headline.

                    There are many people on this forum doing well from Internet
                    Marketing - myself included.

                    I think it does other Warriors a disservice to suggest..

                    "You'll Never Make It In IM Today"

                    Just because Ken's approach didn't work, doesn't mean other
                    approaches will fail.


                    John
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                    • Profile picture of the author Chipt
                      Originally Posted by John Taylor View Post

                      Chip,

                      I'm not seeing what you are seeing. I don't see anyone
                      saying there's no value in Ken's post.

                      What I do see is a very misleading headline.

                      There are many people on this forum doing well from Internet
                      Marketing - myself included.

                      I think it does other Warriors a disservice to suggest..

                      "You'll Never Make It In IM Today"

                      Just because Ken's approach didn't work, doesn't mean other
                      approaches will fail.


                      John

                      Hey, John -

                      Thank you for your speedy reply, and I appreciate your keen eye in stating that I was unclear... so thank you... it's early here and I need more coffee ... ...

                      For your consideration...

                      'Value' is IMO always in the eye of the beholder, like 'beauty' is. Seems to me from reading and replying to hundreds of posts here and thousands of posts elsewhere... there's a certain group of people who diss others because [I guess] that's how they get their jollies.

                      I've seen others do it from valid cross-points as well, like you typically do..

                      I guess I should have been more plain about the presence or absence of good manners and polite debate in these situations, coupled with less arrogance and antagonism I see in so many replies...

                      As to the headline, it rings of Harlan's headline about FK.

                      As you already know, good writers provoke. They stir stuff up. They craft words carefully to increase open and read rates [and of course conversions.]

                      As we scan the headlines of lots of posts here on WF, curiosity is used in many, and downright misdirection is used in others...

                      ... because it works...

                      And if we as writers cannot be heard [read] ... then all of our efforts fall on deaf ears [blind eyes.]

                      Again, thank you for bringing up where my original reply was impotent or incomplete. I respect your opinion and value what you post, and hope this reply clairifies some points I should have originally made better.



                      Always all the best -

                      Chip
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                    • Originally Posted by John Taylor View Post

                      Chip,

                      I'm not seeing what you are seeing. I don't see anyone
                      saying there's no value in Ken's post.

                      What I do see is a very misleading headline.

                      There are many people on this forum doing well from Internet
                      Marketing - myself included.

                      I think it does other Warriors a disservice to suggest..

                      "You'll Never Make It In IM Today"

                      Just because Ken's approach didn't work, doesn't mean other
                      approaches will fail.


                      John
                      While I understand what Ken is trying to say, I actually felt a little put-off by the headline; it's offensive.

                      As far as "making it in IM'...IM was actually NOT my first choice for a niche. There are other niches that interest me tremendously more than this one does. Things I have "inside information" about that can help 'desperate buyers'. And I intend to work in those niches.

                      There's information that I gained about IM through my own months of working with it for myself that is extremely helpful to other IMers. Information that people are willing to pay for. I could make the choice to simply turn my back on it, and not develop products that could help other people succeed. That would be silly, IMO. My husband keeps talking about the person (was it Zig Zigler??) who said that people get rich in proportion to the amount they have helped other people.

                      I don't have any interest in being "rich"; I just want enough to give me my time and financial freedom.
                      Signature
                      -----------------------------------------


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        • Profile picture of the author Simon_Sezs
          Originally Posted by Kevin Riley View Post


          Think outside the box.
          Kevin, that says it all. Here is the problem with trying to **cut** it in the IM niche. Most new, intermediate and advanced IMers simply want the cookie cutter answer to their problems.

          They want blueprints. They want step by step. They want someone to hold their hand.

          And then when they get these things, they don't understand why they aren't making money (could it be that there are hundreds of other desperate IMers trying to follow the same blueprint?)

          Things just aren't that simple. Personally, I like to take a working concept and then break the rules (if you will) until it either works for me or morphs into something else.

          As bad as it may sound, I sometimes use these same desperate IMers who are religously follow blueprints to my advantage (for instance, I can piggy back off their traffic, especially in the social networks).

          What people don't get is that if you are continuously doing what everyone else is doing, you can continuously expect to get what everyone else is getting. And considering that there is so little room at the top, you can expect that those at the top of the food chain ARE NOT doing what everyone else is doing.....
          Signature
          "Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing." Ben Franklin
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        • Profile picture of the author michael44a
          Is your ebook as good as you make it sound?
          Thanks!
          Michael
          Signature

          Michael Adams, MCSE
          Author of the original eBook ZERO COST MARKETING



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          • Profile picture of the author Simon_Sezs
            Originally Posted by michael44a View Post

            Is your ebook as good as you make it sound?
            Thanks!
            Michael
            No, it is terrible....don't buy it....please...
            Signature
            "Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing." Ben Franklin
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            • Profile picture of the author Sean Ski
              No matter how great anyone thinks the almightly reese and kern are there's always someone else who can beat them... No one's unbeatable, didn't you watch the superbowl?

              Definitely get your point though; start out somewhere else when you're new... But then once you're established if you want to try your luck with the IM market, go for it.
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  • Profile picture of the author faranak
    sorry but i totally disagree.what about chris surfrider and pat obrian both fairly new and very sucessfull.
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    • Profile picture of the author Chris Lockwood
      I agree with Kevin. Who says you have to compete with those big names (who mostly sell higher ticket items)? I mean, how many products has John Reese released in the last 2 years? One?
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      • Profile picture of the author briancollins
        Good post Ken, although i can see Kevin's and Big Mike's point of views, I think most people first start with the "make money online" niche, which is IMO a bad move as they dont yet have the experience or level of thinking to think outside the box and not be a meer regurgitater of other peoples work.

        By the way Ken, you never did get back to me on my JV invitation for my gambling product ;0)
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  • Profile picture of the author Brian Cook
    Hi Ken,

    Appreciated your post (and I've still got a copy of your
    "ebook Secrets" on my bookshelf!)

    Good to hear from you and glad your approach is working
    well for you.

    Brian
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    • Profile picture of the author peteinoz
      man that niche was hammered in Yahoo and Google.. but only a very few made money from it.

      Hey Ken,

      great post mate,

      I agree, though not 100% of people cannot make it, though certainly a large percentage will not.

      I have deal with a LOT of customers over the years, most get put off because they do not understand niche research and go for the big bucks straight up and end up competing in the serps with people like me and others with huge resources.

      IM is one tough market.

      There are 1000's that are not and still very very profitable.

      I remember when adsense took off.. I'd put to you 90% of people went straight for the Mysothelioma $45 clicks

      man that niche was hammered in Yahoo and Google.. but only a very few made money from it.

      I think there are parallels today between the above and IM now.

      I think SpicyRobby put it very well


      The first thing that comes into many peoples' mind is selling something ABOUT IM. No - we have to USE IM to sell in OTHER niches - simple as that!
      Cheers

      Pete
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      HangoutMillionaire.com World Premeire Automated Video Marketing Software, Streams YouTube Live and Google Hangouts. Special Offer Link!
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  • Profile picture of the author Mo Goulet
    Originally Posted by KenSilver View Post

    Don't rely on patents - anyone can replicate those with a bit of work. What you develop must be unique and unbreakable.
    You are the first person who I have heard say what I have always believed.

    I have my product Trademarked (SmokeScents) but to patent it I would actually have to reveal the details which as you say could be replicated. I choose to keep the product patent pending and not divulge the actual ingredient details. I have had several people try to replicate what I have and they simply cannot.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris W. Sutton
    Very thoughtful post but I have to disagree with something...

    People trying to get on the IM bandwagon, with limited knowledge and years, are going to find it almost impossible to beat the Frank Kerns, the John Reeses and Rich Schefrens of this exclusive world.
    You don't NEED to beat the Kerns, Reeses and Schefrens. What you need to do is find your own spot in whatever niche you decide to work with.

    You are correct that people with "limited knowledge and years" will find the IM niche to be difficult. Heck, it can be difficult for experienced users too. You want to know HOW those guys you mentioned make big money in the IM niche? It goes like this... they have a network and they have a list. No new people will have that!

    John Reese would be the first to tell you that he would NEVER had made those huge one-day sells if he had not had a good network that promoted his products.

    That is why it is very important to your success to establish relationships in this business. Leverage!

    Take care!
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    • Profile picture of the author BlogBrowser
      Banned
      [DELETED]
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      • Profile picture of the author KenSilver
        Interesting comments, thanks. I didn't want to reduce all hope for IM newbies, but show that in this intensely competitive environment I was able to stop wasting my valuable life energy trying to emulate another's success.

        Till now I've gone down many wrong paths that eventually led to dissatisfaction and failure - a bit like the lure of big money in IM that attracts many people here. The difference is that I've been blessed at this late stage to recognize exactly how to harness my skills.

        Just hope my negative motivation jolts someone else into realizing their own uniqueness.

        (A prediction: As the world becomes more like the IM field - a vast area of depersonalization and sameness linked by common knowledge - original art will be will be a growth market. Every original artwork, whether in fashion or design, is an individual's unique fingerprint. One-off creations are and will continue to be a big earner. I've stopped buying limited edition prints - and concentrated on buying original artworks - because I know it's the only one in the world on my wall. That has huge possibilities).
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  • Profile picture of the author ebony66
    Congratulations for finding what you are passionate about. Some of us go through life never really finding that. Jack of all trades, master of none.

    ebony66
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Ryan
    Ken -

    Great post!

    when I first started in 1995 on the net, and still getting increasing success.
    I got kind of a funny feeling when I read that part of your post. I
    made sustainable income from 96 to 2002 in the 'adult' end of the
    market. At a certain point I decided that wasn't for me (mainly
    cause of the advent of daughters growing up).....

    I made the mistake of thinking marketing online is different from
    adult to mainstream....but really, it's not - sell what's selling to those
    that are buying!

    The same principles of marketing online back in '96 are
    applying almost perfectly to what I'm trying to accomplish today.

    Sure, the latest this - that - or - the other - works....but there is
    a certain fundamental that still pulls and is still profitable and will
    always be.

    Thanks for reminding me of this Ken.

    You don't NEED to beat the Kerns, Reeses and Schefrens. What you need to do is find your own spot in whatever niche you decide to work with.
    Exactly - what's the point. They have their corner, hell, I like a couple of their corners.
    The point here is - the world's not a box...there isn't only 4 corners! It's all
    sweet, fat and ROUND with room for whoeever has the cojones to take their
    step and make their step a big step.

    Good grief...

    Does anyone here ever think about PAYING for advertising?

    Yea you remember, the stuff that used to happen before the Internet.

    Get a "paying" system in place that works and this nonsense about competing with someone else because they are funny and entertaining becomes just that, nonsense.

    Get real people...the only competition some of you have is between your ears..

    Allen
    Oh! C'mon....can't everything be free? Please? LOL

    Excellent point!

    Matt
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