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How Your School Teachers Conditioned You to Fail in Internet Marketing

by Dan C. Rinnert
50 replies
"Read chapter 17 tonight. Quiz tomorrow."

So, you read the chapter and you take the quiz. Done.

"Read chapters 18 & 19 tonight. Quiz tomorrow."

So, you read the chapters and you take the quiz. Done.

"Final test on Friday."

So, you skim through the chapters again, try to remember key information and you take the test. Done.

Then, it's on to the next class and the next textbook.

Basically, what you've learned is that you read material, you take a test on it and you're done. For the most part, there is no continuous application of knowledge. You learn something, you're tested and then you move on to the next thing.

Sound familiar?

It's much like people that buy products on Internet marketing.

They buy an eBook, they read it and then they move on to the next eBook.

We frequently bemoan the fact that people don't actually put to use the stuff they read.

We often assume they are just too lazy to do the work, that they are just hunting to find the magic ATM machine that will mystically appear after reading an eBook.

But, that's what they were taught in school.

You read the book and you get a gold star. The work is reading the book. You might have to answer a few questions about what you've read, but you rarely, if ever, actually had to apply the knowledge you learned in order to get that gold star.

You read the book and you earn a reward.

That's what people have been largely prepared for. It becomes a subconscious sort of thing. "I read this book, so I should be rewarded now."

Doing some sort of work beyond reading just never really occurs to people because they haven't been prepared for it.

You read the book and you earn a reward.

If you don't get a reward after reading the book, well, I guess maybe try another book.

Then another.

And another.

Where's my reward?

Sadly, people have largely been conditioned to expect a reward after reading something a and not to expect a reward after reading something AND applying what they have learned.

So, if you're selling information products to this crowd, and you really want to help them, it's not just their mindset that you need to overcome, but 12 to 13 years or more of conditioning from their education, that taught them to expect their gold star simply for reading.

Reading is just the start of learning.
#conditioned #fail #internet #marketing #school #teachers
  • Profile picture of the author Anthony Scorza
    And I guess that, at times we've all thought we could get through the tests without doing the homework or putting in the effort required?
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    • Profile picture of the author IMmoneydeals
      I find it more an indictment of the education system that we are allowing people to get away with that kind of so called learning.

      The education should be changing to test people on the concepts of what they're learning, not the facts, and continue to build upon it.

      In the same way, IM is all about learning something, putting it into practice, and falling into the test/modify cycle until it's perfected or rejected.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joshua Rigley
    Banned
    I think you've hit the nail on the head here. One of the things that drives me NUTS about school is how there is little practical application. All of the work is done within the text book.

    There's really no point in pointing fingers though. We just need to try our best to make our content actionable.

    For example, providing a checklist, a step-by-step plan, and a daily schedule, can help a lot.
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  • Profile picture of the author Vincenzo Oliva
    I think you're on to something here. Those critical thinkers already know that the American school system is designed to create "government slaves". Go to school, get in debt to the bankers, get a job and carry debt and pay taxes until you die. That's why the Rockerfellers got all finance classes removed from public schools in the 60's.

    Read: "Rich Dad. Poor Dad" and the "Cash Quadrant"
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    • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
      How Your School Teachers Conditioned You to Fail in Internet Marketing
      Actually, my high school teachers never heard of the internet back in the '60s. What they conditioned me to fail in was...


      High School...

      ~Bill
      Signature
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    • Profile picture of the author theemperor
      Originally Posted by Vincenzo Oliva View Post

      I think you're on to something here. Those critical thinkers already know that the American school system is designed to create "government slaves". Go to school, get in debt to the bankers, get a job and carry debt and pay taxes until you die. That's why the Rockerfellers got all finance classes removed from public schools in the 60's.

      Read: "Rich Dad. Poor Dad" and the "Cash Quadrant"
      Yeah most people don't realise that virtually all money is debt-based and based on nothing real. But as long as most people don't realise it, then money will retain it's value to people. The credit crunch is a result of pushing the creative accounting that is "money" to it's ultimate limits.

      Translating this into IM... the wise thing to do is to create things other people value not blindly chase money.
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    • Profile picture of the author Frodr
      Originally Posted by Vincenzo Oliva View Post

      why the Rockerfellers got all finance classes removed from public schools in the 60's.

      Im intrigued. This is the first I'd ever heard of this... to my disappointment i could find nothing in google about it. Where can I read more about this?
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  • Profile picture of the author Colin Palfrey
    Rant Warning!

    I have personally told my son's school what I think of them, many times.

    What a child should be taught is business management, utilizing the skills of others, launching a business, how to file tax receipts, hiring and firing employees, marketing, business loan applications. All the little things that separate successful people from worker drones. I would even suggest there should be lessons on balancing your budget at home and driving lessons. The children are supposed to be the future, not the future of teaching.

    This is an old rant from me, but the school system teaches children to become teachers, nothing more.

    In my experience school teachers aren't that bright, hence their job. They never went out into the world and did anything, they just stayed in school. I suppose the question should be: How could a teacher ever be qualified to teach a child how to go out into the world, and by their wits alone make something of their lives, if they have never left school, and have never really lived?

    Cheers,
    Colin Palfrey
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    • Profile picture of the author Director J
      Originally Posted by Colin Palfrey View Post

      Rant Warning!

      I have personally told my son's school what I think of them, many times.

      What a child should be taught is business management, utilizing the skills of others, launching a business, how to file tax receipts, hiring and firing employees, marketing, business loan applications. All the little things that separate successful people from worker drones. I would even suggest there should be lessons on balancing your budget at home and driving lessons. The children are supposed to be the future, not the future of teaching.

      This is an old rant from me, but the school system teaches children to become teachers, nothing more.

      In my experience school teachers aren't that bright, hence their job. They never went out into the world and did anything, they just stayed in school. I suppose the question should be: How could a teacher ever be qualified to teach a child how to go out into the world, and by their wits alone make something of their lives, if they have never left school, and have never really lived?

      Cheers,
      Colin Palfrey
      Shhhh...don't let that secret out. Makes its harder for people with that knowledge to open a business due to more competition
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    • Profile picture of the author kleo
      Originally Posted by Colin Palfrey View Post

      Rant Warning!

      I have personally told my son's school what I think of them, many times.

      What a child should be taught is business management, utilizing the skills of others, launching a business, how to file tax receipts, hiring and firing employees, marketing, business loan applications. All the little things that separate successful people from worker drones. I would even suggest there should be lessons on balancing your budget at home and driving lessons. The children are supposed to be the future, not the future of teaching.

      This is an old rant from me, but the school system teaches children to become teachers, nothing more.

      In my experience school teachers aren't that bright, hence their job. They never went out into the world and did anything, they just stayed in school. I suppose the question should be: How could a teacher ever be qualified to teach a child how to go out into the world, and by their wits alone make something of their lives, if they have never left school, and have never really lived?

      Cheers,
      Colin Palfrey
      Here is a lesson for you, be careful what you say.

      Why? You could lose sales.

      You see teachers and their families are customers.
      In your experience they aren't that bright.

      Not sure what your experiences are, that gave you the right to call them not bright?

      My wife, brother, Uncle and 4 cousins are teachers and I can promise you something
      no matter what you had to offer, I would never buy anything from you.

      You never know where your next sale lies, however you can bet it won't come
      from someone you insulted.

      Why on earth would you want to upset so many people?

      A good rule in business is not to offend potential customers if you want to stay in
      business.

      Seems to me you need to go back and educate yourself on customer service.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by Colin Palfrey View Post

      -snip-
      This is an old rant from me, but the school system teaches children to become teachers, nothing more.

      In my experience school teachers aren't that bright, hence their job. They never went out into the world and did anything, they just stayed in school. I suppose the question should be: How could a teacher ever be qualified to teach a child how to go out into the world, and by their wits alone make something of their lives, if they have never left school, and have never really lived?
      I seem to recall this from something I read years ago, so if I'm off, blame it on the passing of time. As I recall though, schools were originally funded primarily by businesses, so what they did was train people to become workers for those businesses. To a large degree, many (most?) schools still teach students to become workers.

      You could say the schools haven't evolved, but that's more to do with the structure than the intelligence of the teachers. In my experience, teachers are like people from most walks of life. Some are a little smarter than others, but most are about average.
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      • Profile picture of the author paulie888
        Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post


        You could say the schools haven't evolved, but that's more to do with the structure than the intelligence of the teachers. In my experience, teachers are like people from most walks of life. Some are a little smarter than others, but most are about average.
        I wholly concur, Dennis. Teachers are basically just ordinary people who have gone through the requisite education in order to be able to teach students.

        The observation you provided above was readily apparent to me when I was in graduate school, as you typically find many different levels of professors in a big university, from the tenured ones with gilded offices, all the way down to the lowly adjunct ones.

        You could usually see a precipitous drop in their skills and knowledge as you went down the ranks, and what I found interesting is that many of the tenured professors in my university had extensive real-world experience and either had been entrepreneurs or consultants/high level managers in corporations, and were not just teaching regurgitated theory, but had actual real-world experience to back it up with.

        Looking at it purely in terms of formal qualifications, every professor basically had the same PhD and similar credentials. However, it seemed like the brightest and most engaging/experienced professors all had real-world business experience, at least at my university.
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        • Profile picture of the author SamirSM
          While everyone has his/her own opinion about the educational systems prevalent today, here's what I have to say:

          1.How you study books is up to you, not the teachers.

          2.When and how much you choose to study is also up to you and not the teachers.

          3.They need to take care of the less-bright students as well, so they might advise the students in general to study what is needed to pass the tests.
          But if you consider it to be wrong then choose your own methods of studying!

          As an outstanding student throughout school, I can tell you one thing, you do not need to memorize to get through school, you choose to do so because it is the easiest way! I have never chosen to memorize when I could just as well understand the concept behind something.
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  • Profile picture of the author tecHead
    I'm definitely assuming here.. but, assuming you were a victim of the same educational system; what differentiates you from the masses you speak of?

    I'm also assuming that you are different, of course.



    Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

    "Read chapter 17 tonight. Quiz tomorrow."

    So, you read the chapter and you take the quiz. Done.

    "Read chapters 18 & 19 tonight. Quiz tomorrow."

    So, you read the chapters and you take the quiz. Done.

    "Final test on Friday."

    So, you skim through the chapters again, try to remember key information and you take the test. Done.

    Then, it's on to the next class and the next textbook.

    Basically, what you've learned is that you read material, you take a test on it and you're done. For the most part, there is no continuous application of knowledge. You learn something, you're tested and then you move on to the next thing.

    Sound familiar?

    It's much like people that buy products on Internet marketing.

    They buy an eBook, they read it and then they move on to the next eBook.

    We frequently bemoan the fact that people don't actually put to use the stuff they read.

    We often assume they are just too lazy to do the work, that they are just hunting to find the magic ATM machine that will mystically appear after reading an eBook.

    But, that's what they were taught in school.

    You read the book and you get a gold star. The work is reading the book. You might have to answer a few questions about what you've read, but you rarely, if ever, actually had to apply the knowledge you learned in order to get that gold star.

    You read the book and you earn a reward.

    That's what people have been largely prepared for. It becomes a subconscious sort of thing. "I read this book, so I should be rewarded now."

    Doing some sort of work beyond reading just never really occurs to people because they haven't been prepared for it.

    You read the book and you earn a reward.

    If you don't get a reward after reading the book, well, I guess maybe try another book.

    Then another.

    And another.

    Where's my reward?

    Sadly, people have largely been conditioned to expect a reward after reading something a and not to expect a reward after reading something AND applying what they have learned.

    So, if you're selling information products to this crowd, and you really want to help them, it's not just their mindset that you need to overcome, but 12 to 13 years or more of conditioning from their education, that taught them to expect their gold star simply for reading.

    Reading is just the start of learning.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
      Originally Posted by tecHead View Post

      I'm definitely assuming here.. but, assuming you were a victim of the same educational system; what differentiates you from the masses you speak of?

      I'm also assuming that you are different, of course.
      A lot of independent learning.
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  • Profile picture of the author Zabrina
    I think this is why I don't understand so many people not taking action and making excuses and thinking that reading is enough.

    I was homeschooled, so I never had a chance to get away with this "just read and repeat" nonsense. I never left school, so my education was practical and covered much more than my peers in public school. When I was younger, I resented this and wished I could just have an easy time in school like my public-schooled friends, but now I see why I'm glad my parents didn't listen to me.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnCalvinII
      Originally Posted by Zabrina View Post

      I think this is why I don't understand so many people not taking action and making excuses and thinking that reading is enough.
      Nicely said! I'm am often amazed at the difference between those who have been home schooled and those who haven't. The home schooled people I've known seem to always be thirsting to know more (a generality) and eager to apply what they learn.
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  • Profile picture of the author paulie888
    Great observation, Dan. Of course, formal learning/school and IM are two very different paradigms. Formal schooling, for the most part, focuses on learning theory in an in-depth and comprehensive fashion, whereas IM is not unlike a real-world business, where results can only be achieved through application of some theoretical concepts (and usually not without a lot of trial and error involved too).

    This is a common phenomenon though, and in the very beginning I found myself deriving some satisfaction from reading and learning about an IM method; I can see how the 'training' from school that has been ingrained in many of us can cause us to stop short of application of the IM knowledge that we acquire. That initial sense of satisfaction and smugness from 'knowing' about a method won't make us a dime, though.

    Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Manetzke
    There are good teachers and bad teachers. The problem really isn't with the teachers, yes some of it is but the majority of the problem is what they are required to teach. The teachers do not decide this. I agree there should be basic personal finance and business classes required for all students, but not everyone is qualified to be a business owner no matter what kind of classes they are required to take.

    Also why is it always the teachers that take the blame in our society, not that I'm not surprised because rarely does someone take responsibility for themselves, at least in the US. Parents are just as guilty if not more than teachers. Why do we expect someone else to raise our kids, teach them how to be good citizens when their parents blame their teachers, no matter how much of a little spoiled pain in the ass their kid is.

    Just like business owners, everyone is not cut out to be a teacher, it takes something special to be a good teacher, so give some credit where credit is due, at least to the good teachers, because they are very valuable and hard to come by. Passing the blame to someone else is easy to do, instead stop blaming and take responsibility for yourself and your kids and don't teach them how to just pass the blame on.


    Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author ryanbiddulph
    Interesting point here.

    Schools serve a social purpose. As far as real word skills that you acquire in school - barring college - chances are you won't put most of them into use.

    Internet marketing is adopting the proper mindset to put certain strategies into use on a consistent basis. The school mentality of test, grade and move forward to the next chapter makes mastery of a subject virtually impossible. You simply don't have enough time to do so.

    It is what it is, however. When you learn that YOU have the key within you to succeed all past experiences don't matter. What you decide to do now does.

    Move into action today! You'll gain the proper tools along the way.

    RB
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  • Profile picture of the author J Bold
    I agree in that in traditional schools there is not a lot of learning by doing, or applying the information you've learned. Learning is important, and there are times when you kind of by accident apply what you've learned in school, but the school itself should be creating these kinds of situations. There are some new anti-traditional schools that do this kind of thing but they are few and far between. However, there are some students who are smart enough or bright enough to realize where and when they can apply what they've learned, and I guess these kinds of students are like the IMers who can make it on their own, the kind with an entrepreneurial spirit.

    This is one of the topics trying to make a statement about something in life and how it relates to IM and for once I think here's a thread that actually makes a good point!

    Thanks.
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  • Profile picture of the author yourreviewer
    Interesting thread. Had a friend of mine who quit his teaching job from a well renowned university. When I asked him for the reason, he said Number one most of the students are plain stupid and lazy and Number 2 he had parents harassing him to give out higher grades.

    What really surprised me was when he revealed the Dean himself requested him to take it easy because the University couldn't afford to piss of undergrads since that's where the money comes from.

    He said he could no longer work there is good faith and resigned.
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi Dan,

      I totally agree.

      Hi somacorrelc,

      Schools do this to meet standards.
      I agree - with a caveat. In the UK they've even shifted it to multiple choice, including one or two obviously incorrect answers to make it even easier to hit targets and produce more highly-qualified dunces.

      The caveat - I think this is also used as a smokescreen. They want people to say 'they do this to meet targets' so that they are less inclined to say what Vincenzo Oliva said in post #5 -

      [the] system is designed to create "government slaves". Go to school, get in debt to the bankers, get a job and carry debt and pay taxes until you die.
      Funny that you mention Rockefeller, Vincenzo.

      There's a video of an interview of Aaron Russo by Alex Jones - the full version is on google video - you can find bits of it on youtube but I won't link to it here because it deals with various issues, one of which provokes too much of an emotional response to a subject which gets hotly debated.

      The interview deals with Russo's conversations with Nick Rockefeller and one of the subjects is feminism. The claim is made that the Rockefeller family/institutes designed and encouraged the emancipation of women and the rise of feminism, for two reasons.

      One was because families then produced two taxpayers rather than one.

      The second (which is the relevant one) is because it forces couples to hand their children over to the state for indoctrination at a younger age and often for more time each day.

      The full video is fascinating, in my opinion. On a sidenote, Russo's experiences of running a nightclub in Chicago are interesting too.
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  • Profile picture of the author jamjar919
    I need to show this to my teachers
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  • Profile picture of the author nicholasb
    I'm sure many people will disagree with me, but other than basic math and reading the school system basically conditions you to fail in every aspect of your life teaching you to be a corporate slave and robbing you of your imagination creativity and dreams.

    were being taught through the beginning stages of our lives by low income middle class teachers to think small not take chances and play it safe.
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi nicholasb,

      I'm sure many people will disagree with me, but other than basic math and reading the school system basically conditions you to fail in every aspect of your life teaching you to be a corporate slave and robbing you of your imagination creativity and dreams.
      I agree with you.

      It also conditions children to accept that when someone does something 'against the rules', such as questioning authority, the punishment is public derision/embarrassment or verbal abuse. If this doesn't work it is escalated to exclusion. If that doesn't work, it used to be the case (when I was in school) that it was escalated to violence.

      The last one has been tempered somewhat for a variety of reasons that ultimately achieve the same end (enslavement of the masses and enrichment of the few). One is the introduction of a compensation culture (which breaks down society and enriches certain factions). Another is that by taking the power away from teachers, it again ultimately causes societal breakdown through the lack of education/self-discipline of the student and the ensuing problems once the pupil matures and is unleashed on society.

      In either scenario (the old or the new) what is missing is the teaching of the principle that by having a self-regulating social conscience, society benefits and ultimately so does the individual.

      The conditioning prepares the pupil to accept the same system in later life - (rule breaking leads to derision, then exclusion (jail), then violent enforcement (consequences of jail (violence) as well as violent enforcement by the state).

      ........

      Drift back to topic - progression in IM (or self-employment/business) is often a major battle to reverse this conditioning. The first step is to recognise and understand the process before reversal can take place.

      Plus, as referenced in this forum many times, the individual must also battle their close associates who react against their rejection of 'the system' - they demonstrate the amount of fear that they have about a close friend/relative breaking out of the system and becoming more free.
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      • Profile picture of the author ExRat
        Hi Fun to Write,

        I think the issue really is that in order to be successful online, you need more of an entrepreneurial mindset. Most school systems were set up in the old industrial age. They were preparing people to be educated enough to work in a factory or office.
        I know this is going to sound really picky and provocative, but it's honestly not meant that way - here goes -

        I don't think that is 'the issue'. I think the issue is exactly as Dan stated in the OP that 'the issue' is literally 'conditioning you to fail.'

        I think that this aspect is much more important than the point you are making regarding the industrial age, but I do think that your point is valid, important and relevant. I just don't think that it's as important in terms of why people fail or what people find the hardest part of seeking success compared with the conditioning aspect.

        I hope that doesn't sound confrontational, or as if I am trying to negate your point.
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  • Profile picture of the author Fun to Write
    I think the issue really is that in order to be successful online, you need more of an entrepreneurial mindset. Most school systems were set up in the old industrial age. They were preparing people to be educated enough to work in a factory or office.

    You just need to know enough to do the job. Most children aren't nurtured to be independent thinkers. Creativity tends to be stifled in favor of rote learning and passing tests.

    I really don't think our school system is preparing young people for the fast-paced future. Hopefully, that will change soon.

    Adults who have been prepared to do nothing more than work for others find it hard to take this IM thing seriously. Those who break out of the mold find success.
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  • Profile picture of the author Virtualpreneur
    As the old saying goes.... Those that Can ... Do, Those that Can't Teach!
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    • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
      Originally Posted by Virtualpreneur View Post

      As the old saying goes.... Those that Can ... Do, Those that Can't Teach!
      I hate that ridiculous saying maybe more than any other that's routinely spouted. As if you can't DO and TEACH. It's just one of those silly black-and-white statements that ignores reality because it makes the one saying it and many of the ones hearing it feel something enjoyable (vindication, sense of superiority, etc.).
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    • Profile picture of the author Marvin Johnston
      Originally Posted by Virtualpreneur View Post

      As the old saying goes.... Those that Can ... Do, Those that Can't Teach!
      Actually, that saying should read ... Those that can't Teach, Do. And those that can't Do go into politics .

      I heard a story some time ago about a police officer that was shot in the line of duty because he was picking up his spent brass. Seems picking up the brass after shooting became a habit while he was training at the range.

      My observations are identical to the OP as teaching students seems to be the norm as opposed to developing students. And as it has been pointed out, that seems to come from management.

      Marvin
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      • Profile picture of the author KevinTorrence
        Man, I think you're really hittin' on something here.

        I don't think I'd go and blame teachers ... more so the system ... but the gist of what you're saying is something I've thought ever since highschool.

        It always felt like we were "learning" to past tests so we could move on to the next. I've always been a hands on kinda guy, and that was never the way I learned. I did well in school & college, but I was also stressed out and didn't retain much of it. I always felt like the "dumb" guy that got lucky ... and figured I was more of an independent mind once I grew up a little in college.
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  • Profile picture of the author Fun to Write
    Hi ExRat

    I'm cool with what you've said. I know I ventured off the Ops main point a bit, but I just wanted to throw out this other view as well, since it's something that has been on my mind recently.

    I get his point about expecting a reward right away just for learning something. The part where there is some Action that needs to happen that brings theory to life is often overlooked. I think this happens at the college level too.

    This is why being successful online has nothing to do with your level of education, it's how effective you are at executing a plan of action.

    Anyway, I always enjoy your thoughtful opinions so you're okay in my book!
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Good post, Dan.

      I read it from start to finish.

      Where's my reward?

      Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

      A lot of independent learning.
      That is the key to success, IMO.
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  • Profile picture of the author Fun to Write
    Sorry, I strongly disagree with the OP when it comes to blaming all teachers for kid's failing.

    There are many many wonderful teachers out there doing there very best every day to give kids a good education. I have experienced this first hand.

    They have to deal with all sorts of problems and social issues that children may have, as well as, lack of money and support from administrators, and sometimes the school board.

    So, I totally admire and appreciate what teachers do - most of us here wouldn't do their kind of work for the money they get paid.

    The WHOLE system needs reforming, every piece of it. So, enough with the teacher bashing. Administrators, Parents, Politicians, Community Members, Students and Teachers all must come together and work for the common interest of all.
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    • Profile picture of the author theemperor
      Originally Posted by Fun to Write View Post

      Sorry, I strongly disagree with the OP when it comes to blaming all teachers for kid's failing.
      He ain't blaming the teachers

      And I don't think this is necessarily a political thread about reforming education. He is helping people understand why they might hop from one WSO to the next and not take the necessary actions to make money in IM.
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      • Profile picture of the author ExRat
        Hi Fun to Write,

        I blame the system - the one in which the teachers HAVE to do as they are told, because if they don't they will be sacked. I've also known some great teachers, in particular ones who did a bit extra despite the system.

        It's the ones I've bolded that I blame.

        The WHOLE system needs reforming, every piece of it. So, enough with the teacher bashing. Administrators, Parents, Politicians, Community Members, Students and Teachers all must come together and work for the common interest of all.
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  • Profile picture of the author Drizlek
    Don't even get me started on the public education system. Now, I will admit that there are many teachers out there (it's amazing how much of a positive impact they made in my life... I still remember their names) that actually do more then just teach book knowledge. They teach wisdom that every one of us benefits not just then, but later on in life.

    Others are obviously there just to go through the paces and should not even be teachers to begin with. They either rule with a iron fist or simply don't rule at all and let things get out of control.

    Then again, teachers are not child care professionals. Almost all of the problems students have these days or any day or year stems back to the home. If things are messed up there, it wont get better just because they are sent to school.

    So yes, I agree the whole system needs a good looking at.
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  • Profile picture of the author OmarBriones
    Beautiful! I couldn't agree more with you on this one, Dan!

    It's also a trip because people have been taught in school to follow other people's orders... Check it out:

    You have to follow your teacher's orders to get "good grades", so that you can get into a "good college" where you have to follow even more orders to get a good grade, so that you can get a "good job" & follow EVEN MORE orders to get enough money to "survive".

    It's freaking INSANE! And people REALLY live like that... They REFUSE to take control of their own lives because they've been TRAINED to take other people's orders!

    Their sub-conscious mind is keeping them "safe" from getting into "trouble"

    In the end, it's nobody's "fault"... There's nobody to blame any of this on... We've just been miss-informed by miss-informed people.

    You just have to break free from the cycle & start controlling YOUR life, and stop letting other people control yours.

    Am I right or right?

    ~Omar
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  • Profile picture of the author pheonix44
    I think it conditions you to fail only because you are expected to do the exact same things as everyone else, and there is little value to be had in that. In order to get exceptional results one has to be willing to do things away from the crowd, and school does not promote that. In school people are made fun of for not conforming, and this does not change as we grow up. People simply find other ways to look down on others who do not conform. It takes alot of balls to go against the crowd, especially at an age where the acceptance of your peers means so much. School is 80% social conditioning and 20% learning is what I feel.
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    • Profile picture of the author paulie888
      Originally Posted by pheonix44 View Post

      I think it conditions you to fail only because you are expected to do the exact same things as everyone else, and there is little value to be had in that. In order to get exceptional results one has to be willing to do things away from the crowd, and school does not promote that. In school people are made fun of for not conforming, and this does not change as we grow up. People simply find other ways to look down on others who do not conform. It takes alot of balls to go against the crowd, especially at an age where the acceptance of your peers means so much. School is 80% social conditioning and 20% learning is what I feel.
      Definitely, that's another aspect of formal schooling which can be somewhat detrimental to our IM progress. Instead of encouraging individuality and independent thinking, regular schools veer in the opposite direction instead, and value conformity and uniformity in almost everything you do.
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  • Profile picture of the author msudawgs56
    The awful educational system did something write because the posts above mine are typed and for the most part well written.

    Schools can not do everything... we plant the seeds and hope the student takes the initiative to apply the theory. The system isn't perfect but you have to know that some things you "learn" in school will be used down the road. The original poster learned something because his post is very well written. So much of the instruction in schools is based on cognitive learning, and I do agree their needs to be more application but please understand there are some subjects that application will occur later down the road.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lisa Gergets
    Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

    "Read chapter 17 tonight. Quiz tomorrow."

    So, you read the chapter and you take the quiz. Done.

    "Read chapters 18 & 19 tonight. Quiz tomorrow."

    So, you read the chapters and you take the quiz. Done.

    "Final test on Friday."

    So, you skim through the chapters again, try to remember key information and you take the test. Done.

    Then, it's on to the next class and the next textbook.

    Basically, what you've learned is that you read material, you take a test on it and you're done. For the most part, there is no continuous application of knowledge. You learn something, you're tested and then you move on to the next thing.

    Sound familiar?
    WAY too familiar...and why we're homeschooling our kids.

    I never really realized the parallel between a public school system and the lack of action in IM, but wow, you hit it dead on, Dan.
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  • Profile picture of the author danayala
    Great post, Dan! Some very interesting points!

    Although I love to go on tirades about the school system from time to time, the fact is that not everyone is the same. Here on the WF, we are all people who want to live life on our own terms. The Warrior Forum is a center for entrepreneurs and people who feel that there is more to life than making a living, but not everyone is this way.

    I used to believe that everyone else had this entrepreneurial spirit, but in recent times I've met people who genuinely just want simplicity. They only want the structure that comes with a typical career and nothing more. And that's okay.

    I think that we can all get something good out of what we learn in the school system. Ultimately it's up to you what you are able to take from it. After graduating from one of the top high schools in the nation, I won't say some of it wasn't worthless. But I do appreciate the connections I made, the leadership skills I developed, and even some academic information that I absorbed.

    In my opinion, we make the best of what we are given, and then keep moving on to bigger and better things.

    As far as the conditioning that Dan was referring to, I think he's right. Some of our most impressionable years are spent getting worked into this system. It becomes difficult to purge some of the mindlessness of the routines we spent years executing.
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  • Profile picture of the author celente
    yes exactly, I got my entrepreneurial sprit at about the age of 10>>

    I could feel it brooding from then. I know that other entrepreneurs I talk to are very ambitious and do not take no for an answer..... So if you have a will no one will get in your way, no belief either. I think that is the quality you have to have.

    I pretty much gave teh finger as I left highschool, I was a rebel wtihout a cause. I topped my uni classes, but I swapped to bachelor of multimedia. It was like a gift from god.....and I do not know how to do great videos and html...but at least I know how to do it. That is a head start over everyone else starting out.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sardent
    For the most part, everyone conditions us to fail, from teachers, parents, relatives, friends...

    Whether from jealousy or pessimism.

    Winners are optimists.
    They don't let people tell them all the reasons something won't work.
    They surround themselves with other positive people. And in some places those people are in short supply.

    The pessimists talks himself out of trying before the opportunity is even half formulated.
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  • Profile picture of the author dagaul101
    Interesting point, much of the reason why marketers fail is ofcourse their perception of how to apply knowledge
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