How thoroughly do you spin your articles?

by edge83
45 replies
NOTE: I am referring to unique articles that you write yourself (or have written for you)

Greetings all-

I tend to be the cautious type with such matters, and I have an excellent piece of software that lets you provide multiple variations for words / sentences etc, and in layers, to give a lot of variations on articles.

I'm curious how often, and how thoroughly you guys spin your articles that you submit to multiple sites. I so far am just submitting to 10 or so directories that have some page rank, with my original draft going to ezine articles.

I've heard that duplicate content is not really that important.. having heard examples of a huge news story that were to break, which gets reposted millions of times without google suddenly 'blocking' that article. I'm curious your thoughts or experience with this!

Thanks.
#articles #spin
  • Profile picture of the author sarahberra
    I don't spin at all anymore. I get the best results from truly unique content.
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    • Profile picture of the author edge83
      Originally Posted by sarahberra View Post

      I don't spin at all anymore. I get the best results from truly unique content.
      I am referring to an article I have written that is 100% unique, but then submitting it to more than one directory. Do you mean that you would only submit to one directory?
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  • Profile picture of the author Darla
    I don't submit as often as I used to anymore, but when I did I spun about 50%. EZA was always 100% and all others much less.
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  • Profile picture of the author Istvan Horvath
    Who says you have to spin it in order to be able to submit to more than one directory?

    Knowledgeable marketers (who KNOW the "duplicate content" bull**** you quoted is an urban myth...) do submit the same, unchanged article to multiple directories.

    Do your homework before coming up with nonsense 'hearsay' (= I heard...) arguments.
    Article directories are for syndication. There is no duplicate content, just syndication.
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    • Profile picture of the author edge83
      Originally Posted by Istvan Horvath View Post


      Do your homework before coming up with nonsense 'hearsay' (= I heard...) arguments.
      Well, the nonsense hearsay I posted was stating that duplicate does NOT matter - It also was not presented as an argument to anyone, nor a statement of fact, but a question. As far as homework, looking up the topic presents a lot of conflicting information saying that you should / shouldn't change, hence the question. I'm simply asking others' experience with submitting the same content to multiple directories- not making claims one way or the other.
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  • Profile picture of the author Thomas W
    I have spun paragraphs.. Meaning if i had

    point 1
    Point 2.
    Point 3

    Then spin it for
    Point 2
    Point 3
    Point 1

    Then spin so their variations of the word count. So if you had 200 words don't let the spun article be 200 words either.

    But I do agree that Duplicate content is not all that is cracked up to be. It's just the Idea that your submitting fresh content to the Article directories.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jayzee
    If you spin articles then you won't concentrate on quality of the article. So just try to write 1 write at most 2 times, 1st. when you write the article and 2nd time when you revise it. If you find any good ideas lately then edit else don't. Just concentrate of the quality content, not rewriting.

    Good Luck
    Jayzee
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    • Profile picture of the author corsleymaxwell
      When you want to submit a single article to a number of websites then you need to rewrite it in such a way that you don't face issues pertaining to duplicate content. In order to minimize the efforts in rewriting there are number of article spinning tools. But Google is capable of identifying articles that are spun and such articles will be blocked from getting displayed in the search results. The best way to keep yourself protected is to go for unique content instead of spinning your articles. Even if you have to spin you articles remember the following points so that you don't get penalized by the search engines or ignored by the search engines. Key to spinning articles likes is to ensure that the article that is spun has been rewritten in such a way that it shows a minimum of 30% variation on the original article. If you use an article spinning software make sure that the spun article makes sense to the human reader. Article spinning software spits out articles that are absurd and we may have to pay close attention to edit the articles to make it reader-friendly. In most cases, you would prefer to do it manually because the tools that are available are not effective enough to spin articles or rewrite articles in a sensible way. Retain the keywords and change as much as possible by using synonyms and variation is sentence construction.
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      • Profile picture of the author Istvan Horvath
        Originally Posted by corsleymaxwell View Post

        When you want to submit a single article to a number of websites then you need to rewrite it in such a way that you don’t face issues pertaining to duplicate content.
        Here you go... people just posting without reading and posting lies.

        Sorry, you need to learn first before you give advice. Do you know what "duplicate content" is? No, you don't.

        Submitting articles (and, as the original intent with directories was, getting re-published them by other webmasters) is called syndication. It has nothing to do with the duplicate content urban myth.
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        • Profile picture of the author Rich Struck
          Originally Posted by Istvan Horvath View Post

          Here you go... people just posting without reading and posting lies.

          Sorry, you need to learn first before you give advice. Do you know what "duplicate content" is? No, you don't.

          Submitting articles (and, as the original intent with directories was, getting re-published them by other webmasters) is called syndication. It has nothing to do with the duplicate content urban myth.
          Post of the year.
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          • Profile picture of the author yesacpow
            I have thousands of articles published on the web so I can speak from a little experience.

            I have submitted the same article to multiple directories without spinning and most of the time the same article is ranked on the first page of google on several directories depending on the competition for the keyword.

            I have also submitted spun versions or an article (sometimes up to 90% spin) to multiple directories and the same thing happens.

            The only major different is the amount of directories that I find indexed with my article. I find more with the spun version than if I didn't spin the article.
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      • Profile picture of the author Glenn Leader
        Originally Posted by corsleymaxwell View Post

        When you want to submit a single article to a number of websites then you need to rewrite it in such a way that you don't face issues pertaining to duplicate content. In order to minimize the efforts in rewriting there are number of article spinning tools. But Google is capable of identifying articles that are spun and such articles will be blocked from getting displayed in the search results. The best way to keep yourself protected is to go for unique content instead of spinning your articles. Even if you have to spin you articles remember the following points so that you don't get penalized by the search engines or ignored by the search engines. Key to spinning articles likes is to ensure that the article that is spun has been rewritten in such a way that it shows a minimum of 30% variation on the original article. If you use an article spinning software make sure that the spun article makes sense to the human reader. Article spinning software spits out articles that are absurd and we may have to pay close attention to edit the articles to make it reader-friendly. In most cases, you would prefer to do it manually because the tools that are available are not effective enough to spin articles or rewrite articles in a sensible way. Retain the keywords and change as much as possible by using synonyms and variation is sentence construction.
        I make a point of never reading posts that have no formatting in them. Big blocks of texts are difficult to read.
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        • Profile picture of the author warriorkay
          Originally Posted by Glenn Leader View Post

          I make a point of never reading posts that have no formatting in them. Big blocks of texts are difficult to read.
          Ha ha ha, looks like the usual junk spun articles we all
          have grown used to hating, right?

          It's important to spend the little time in properly
          formatting our posts so they look pleasing to the eyes.

          Kingsley
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  • Profile picture of the author Istvan Horvath
    Read this fine thread (all the 11 pages!) and you will know everything you ever wanted to know about article marketing and directories:
    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...eza-first.html
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    • Profile picture of the author edge83
      Thanks for the link Istvan and everyone else for your replies! Interestingly, already seeing different takes on the issue
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  • Profile picture of the author OmarBriones
    Istvan getting a little feisty here. lol. jk. I'm glad I wasn't involved in this...

    Just to be clear, there is such thing as "duplicate content" according to Google... But all duplicate content is, is the same or very similar content posted on the same domain... If one page says almost exactly the same thing as another page, the only page that will get any credit for that content would be the first one published.

    So you can spin your articles all you want (I've never done it before so I have no idea what the heck it does lol), whether you do or not, you can submit them to as many directories as you'd like... But only ONE (the first one you send it to) will get credit from Google's spiders (if that makes any sense).

    Aside that, while I'm here, I'd like to make a suggestion of the way I create super fast articles, using pre-written content...

    1. Find 3 popular articles on ezine (or wherever)

    2. Take note (in a notepad) of any gold nuggets you get from each one
    -- think of things that you believe would be really useful information for your readers

    3. Combine them all into one article...
    -- so you're gathering gold nuggets from 3 different articles and mashing them together to get platinum nuggets

    You can call the article (depending on how many nuggets you put together) something like "3 Most Important _____ When _________"

    Get what I'm saying?

    Just thought I'd leave with that, in case you haven't thought of it yet.

    Best of success to you, Edge!

    Rock on!

    ~Omar
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    • Profile picture of the author Alfred23
      Want to hear more, is spinning articles the right path to consider when it comes to producing written articles? Because fresh and uniquely written articles are still the best tools to consider when it comes to article marketing.
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  • Profile picture of the author AndyBlackSEO
    Spinning purely on a sentence level works for me very well. I use this method and paste the syntax into article networks and the results have ben nothing short of great. Also, by spinning sentence level, the grammer will be good and it won;t sound like words are forced in there that generally... people wouldn't use when phrasing a sentence.

    If you have have paragraphs that are ALL tighly related to a specific topic then you can spin at paragraph level as well.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      I'd like to chime in and tell people what duplicate and syndicate content is but for anyone with even a half sized brain, Istvan has said it all.

      Seriously, if you think he's wrong you won't likely be successful in this game or any other for that matter.

      One needs to understand and verify facts, not follow the sheep to the slaughter house.
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  • Profile picture of the author dcjones21
    Well, this is some food for thought.

    I had been told that EZines wanted a different article from others, but Istvan got me to go reread the EZines terms of service and editorial guidelines. They don't want to to send the same article to them multiple times. No mention about being posted elsewhere (except that they will do that)

    Saw this article on the topic -
    "Mythbusting: Article Submission Sites Do Not Want Duplicate Content"

    But it is interesting that Yesacpow is seeing spun articles rank better.

    So maybe the truth is you don't have to, but it may help. Looks like a good issue to test.
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  • Profile picture of the author DIGITALCHAMELEON
    Creating unique and fresh content is very effective in SEO however many marketers today spinning and they prefer to do it manually but some use software in spinning article.
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  • Profile picture of the author edge83
    My understanding is this:

    This is in reference to a UNIQUE article that you have written or had written for you.

    For lots of obvious reasons there is not going to be any real "penalty" from google if you have the same text in multiple places (think of a news story or press release that gets syndicated to thousands of blogs/sites)

    "Spinning" the article to a certain level of uniqueness however gives you a much better (if not the only possible way?) to have a very similar article rank in multiple spots in google.

    IE, 3rd result in google = article from ezine
    5th result = spun-enough article from go articles

    What I've been seeing w/ some of my own stuff (and reading from others) is that if they are identical, one is going to rank and you are better off using the other syndicated versions purely for backlink purposes.

    Hpoefully this clarifies the original question here and if this all does check out, I will try to post this to explain it all to others in a more coherent way
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by edge83 View Post

      My understanding is this:

      For lots of obvious reasons there is not going to be any real "penalty" from google if you have the same text in multiple places (think of a news story or press release that gets syndicated to thousands of blogs/sites)

      "Spinning" the article to a certain level of uniqueness however gives you a much better (if not the only possible way?) to have a very similar article rank in multiple spots in google.

      IE, 3rd result in google = article from ezine
      5th result = spun-enough article from go articles

      What I've been seeing w/ some of my own stuff (and reading from others) is that if they are identical, one is going to rank and you are better off using the other syndicated versions purely for backlink purposes.

      Hpoefully this clarifies the original question here and if this all does check out, I will try to post this to explain it all to others in a more coherent way
      For lots of obvious reasons there is not going to be any real "penalty" from google if you have the same text in multiple places (think of a news story or press release that gets syndicated to thousands of blogs/sites)
      Precisely, there is no penalty at all, it's a myth. An all too well known myth.


      "Spinning" the article to a certain level of uniqueness however gives you a much better (if not the only possible way?) to have a very similar article rank in multiple spots in google.
      Not at all. I have in the past and present had an article on my site ranking on the first page, along with the same article on EZA, the same article on a weebly site and the same article on a hubpage. If google was worried about this then the duplicate content myth exists, which it doesn't.

      What I've been seeing w/ some of my own stuff (and reading from others) is that if they are identical, one is going to rank and you are better off using the other syndicated versions purely for backlink purposes.
      You seem to be getting spun and syndicated mixed up. You do not aim to have an article syndicated purely for backlink purposes. If someone uses your article, the said person, usually, if they know anything, put's it on a site relevant to the subject you're writing about, therefore putting it front of a relevant audience, therefore driving relevant traffic to your site. The backlinks you do get are also far more relevant.
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      • Profile picture of the author edge83
        Thanks for clearing that up.

        The biggest / most traffic driving article on my site exists on both my site and ezine, but the ezine stopped showing up rather quickly. I had heard a lot about how google will "pick the most relevant one" if it's the same content and rank that one, and it seemed to check out but it's good to know that is not the case!

        So, I guess I did basically waste my time writing my article in this program using all the text variations in different sentences to make them more unique
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        • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
          Originally Posted by edge83 View Post

          Thanks for clearing that up.

          The biggest / most traffic driving article on my site exists on both my site and ezine, but the ezine stopped showing up rather quickly. I had heard a lot about how google will "pick the most relevant one" if it's the same content and rank that one, and it seemed to check out but it's good to know that is not the case!

          So, I guess I did basically waste my time writing my article in this program using all the text variations in different sentences to make them more unique
          Articles I publish on EZA tend to rank well at first then drop off, where as my sites tend to stay where they are. What I mean't was Google will allow your site and the same article on other sites rank too.

          One thing to consider is the EZA homepage may have a great PR but that doesn't mean the page your article is on does. Go to the Google PR checker and look at the URL for the EZA homepage and then pick a random article and put the URL of that page in the PR checker.

          That's another reason syndication is such a good way to get good, relevant and decent PR backlinks with readers that are interested in what you have to say.
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  • Profile picture of the author edge83
    Originally Posted by iAdvertise4You View Post

    For me it is either unique content, or automatically spun content for the pure reason of backlinks.

    Spun content is just worthless for me, so I do not really spend time caring about how great it is and on and on.
    Just edited to my post to make it clear, thanks- i am referring to a unique article you have written yourself or had written for you.

    Many people will spin this or only submit to one site out of fear of some penalty.

    The only benefit to spinning, if you manipulate enough, is (i believe) getting that article ranked in more than one slot in google. Looking for confirmation / correction on that. Thanks.
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  • Profile picture of the author warriorkay
    My below piece provides some helpful tips on "RIGHT"
    article spinning,

    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ens-souls.html


    Kingsley
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by warriorkay View Post

      My below piece provides some helpful tips on "RIGHT"
      article spinning,

      http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ens-souls.html


      Kingsley
      I'm not a big fan of spinning but that's my choice but I can say and I've been told by a number of people here and I can see for myself, if anyone is going to go about spinning articles, Warriorkay (Kinglsey) is most definately someone whose advice I'd recommend following.
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      • Profile picture of the author edge83
        Thanks I will check out that link.
        So just to be clear, you've used the exact same content, verbatim, on your site, ezine, AND squidoo, and they all ranked and did what they do just the same? That's really great if so.
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      • Profile picture of the author warriorkay
        Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

        I'm not a big fan of spinning but that's my choice but I can say and I've been told by a number of people here and I can see for myself, if anyone is going to go about spinning articles, Warriorkay (Kingsley) is most definitely someone whose advice I'd recommend following.

        That's
        really very
        sweet of you
        and those other
        people who told you
        and it makes me work
        to even do more for all
        of you awesome warriors,

        Kingsley
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        • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
          Originally Posted by warriorkay View Post

          That's
          really very
          sweet of you
          and those other
          people who told you
          and it makes me work
          to even do more for all
          of you awesome warriors,

          Kingsley
          Pleasure.

          Actually I was very much against spinning until I read some of your recent posts. I spoke to a few people here who had some very good things to say about you.

          I also realised when I saw how you do it in such an ethical way that it was in fact not something I'd be against. I wish more people followed your lead on it.

          Well done.

          Credit where it's deserved.
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          • Profile picture of the author warriorkay
            Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

            Pleasure.

            Actually I was very much against spinning until I read some of your recent posts. I spoke to a few people here who had some very good things to say about you.

            I also realised when I saw how you do it in such an ethical way that it was in fact not something I'd be against. I wish more people followed your lead on it.

            Well done.

            Credit where it's deserved.
            Now, am blushing, ...

            and apart from blushing I am encouraged to do
            more guide/tutorials/tips on doing article spinning
            the RIGHT way. I have been involved in article
            spinning since back in the days and have used
            most of the methods/tools out there, so I do
            know what I am doing in this regard and have
            successfully trained others on how to do it right.

            Thanks, Richard, and all those who had kind words
            to say about me and my "right" spinning abilities,

            Kingsley
            .
            .
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  • Profile picture of the author Sheryl Polomka
    All the different comments do make it quite confusing. So I just have a question, sorry if it's been said clearly and I missed it.

    If I submit the same article to 20 different directories, will all 20 articles get indexed? OR as I've read many times, is it only the first couple that get indexed and then the rest are pretty much useless for backlinks?

    This is the bit that confuses me, if all articles get indexed then I will continue doing what I'm doing, but because I've read that only a few will get indexed, I have been considering getting a spinner, although I really don't like using spinners.
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    • Profile picture of the author Barry Unruh
      Originally Posted by Sheryl Polomka View Post

      All the different comments do make it quite confusing. So I just have a question, sorry if it's been said clearly and I missed it.

      If I submit the same article to 20 different directories, will all 20 articles get indexed? OR as I've read many times, is it only the first couple that get indexed and then the rest are pretty much useless for backlinks?

      This is the bit that confuses me, if all articles get indexed then I will continue doing what I'm doing, but because I've read that only a few will get indexed, I have been considering getting a spinner, although I really don't like using spinners.
      Sheryl, they will all get indexed, but most commonly not all will get ranked. You may find a number of them end up in the supplemental index and will not be easily found. You still get "backlink credit" for them.

      The better question is how can you get the articles to be syndicated to get you a higher number of backlinks from a wider variety of sites with better PR and real readers in your niche.
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      • Profile picture of the author Sheryl Polomka
        Originally Posted by Barry Unruh View Post

        Sheryl, they will all get indexed, but most commonly not all will get ranked. You may find a number of them end up in the supplemental index and will not be easily found. You still get "backlink credit" for them.

        The better question is how can you get the articles to be syndicated to get you a higher number of backlinks from a wider variety of sites with better PR and real readers in your niche.
        Thanks Barry, so submitting the same article will still get me the backlinks. If I submit one good quality article, rather than 100 bad spun articles, then it is more likely to be syndicated giving me even more backlinks.
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  • Profile picture of the author captivereef
    i spin sentences and give each sentence 3 variations. works really well for me
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  • Profile picture of the author Daveyz
    Originally Posted by edge83 View Post

    Greetings all-

    I tend to be the cautious type with such matters, and I have an excellent piece of software that lets you provide multiple variations for words / sentences etc, and in layers, to give a lot of variations on articles.

    I'm curious how often, and how thoroughly you guys spin your articles that you submit to multiple sites. I so far am just submitting to 10 or so directories that have some page rank, with my original draft going to ezine articles.

    I've heard that duplicate content is not really that important.. having heard examples of a huge news story that were to break, which gets reposted millions of times without google suddenly 'blocking' that article. I'm curious your thoughts or experience with this!

    Thanks.
    Nowadays i think the norm is to submit a unique article to every article directory. So if you plan to submit to 10 directories then spin 10 times.

    That being said i was also told that duplicate content is not a very big penalty. But i read somewhere that google may sandbox it though....
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by Daveyz View Post

      Nowadays i think the norm is to submit a unique article to every article directory. So if you plan to submit to 10 directories then spin 10 times.

      That being said i was also told that duplicate content is not a very big penalty. But i read somewhere that google may sandbox it though....
      Sorry Davey but that's the norm in your world.

      Not in the world of people doing this with a modicom of success.

      One needs to understand the true definition and reason for an article directory. :rolleyes:

      Corsley Maxwell - When you want to submit a single article to a number of websites then you need to rewrite it in such a way that you don’t face issues pertaining to duplicate content
      Corsley, this was your first sentence, I never read any further on that basis, it's not even correct.

      You believe in a duplicate content penalty myth that is exactly that, a myth.

      Come on, lets verify our facts before we tell the world what we know.
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      • Profile picture of the author hilaryaustin
        rewriting is different from just changing the synonyms itself. Since rewriting the whole article will expand new meanings of the original article. It branches out new ideas to the original content.
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  • Profile picture of the author kposs
    I do article distribution to blog networks/directories. The main purpose of the articles I submit is backlinks, although the articles are both written well to begin with and manually rewritten twice (sentence-by-sentence) for one simple reason. If the article is not high quality and if it's not spun usually 100% or more, then it will be rejected by many of the network's blog owners.

    The idea of Duplicate Content across sites, no matter how false, is very pervasive and is incorporated into the interface of many services for publishers. So, if you're submitting to blog networks (Article Ranks, etc.) then you really must submit spun articles in order to maximize your distribution.
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  • Profile picture of the author leopi
    It's interesting!
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    • Profile picture of the author Devid Farah
      Hi edge,

      The smaller the scale you spin on the less effective and more difficult it will be to make unique articles. If you are just trying to replace words with synonyms, then you will struggle to get unique spun versions. The smallest level you should spin is on the sentence level. A sentence is a complete thought, so anything smaller than that will risk leaving the spun version confusing and just using synonyms is not enough to make unique spun versions. Spinning on the sentence level will ensure that the spun content is at least 80% unique. You’ll also find that overall, the spun content will tend to flow better and seem more natural when you spin articles on the sentence level.

      Later on you can go back and spin phrases or words, but the foundation of your spinning should be based on the sentence level.
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      • Profile picture of the author warriorkay
        Originally Posted by Devid Farah View Post

        Hi edge,

        The smaller the scale you spin on the less effective and more difficult it will be to make unique articles. If you are just trying to replace words with synonyms, then you will struggle to get unique spun versions. The smallest level you should spin is on the sentence level. A sentence is a complete thought, so anything smaller than that will risk leaving the spun version confusing and just using synonyms is not enough to make unique spun versions. Spinning on the sentence level will ensure that the spun content is at least 80% unique. You'll also find that overall, the spun content will tend to flow better and seem more natural when you spin articles on the sentence level.

        Later on you can go back and spin phrases or words, but the foundation of your spinning should be based on the sentence level.
        Very well said. Obviously you also do KNOW a lot about
        spinning and from your words you have been doing a lot of
        "right" spinning, as I advocate.

        Combine this "sentence" technique with my secret
        STAND-ALONE paragraph technique and you will have
        real WINNER when it comes to "right" article spinning.

        See my comprehensive thread below to know more about
        this stand-alone paragraph technique:

        http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ens-souls.html

        Kingsley
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        Kingged.com Coaching and Partnership Program
        Is The ONLY Coaching Program That Does 99% Of The Work
        TO MAKE MONEY FOR STUDENTS FROM 1ST DAY
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  • Profile picture of the author rapph
    I'm surprised that nobody brought this up. When I submit the same article to many directories, there are a number of them who reject the article because it already appears on the web at some other location, whether it be your site or another article directory. So, if I submit to 100 directories, I only get about 70 of them accepted. This is the reason I spin articles, and I am not basing this on anything but my OWN experience. I do however, make sure each spun version is very readable and expresses the intended point(s).
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    • Profile picture of the author warriorkay
      Originally Posted by rapph View Post

      I'm surprised that nobody brought this up. When I submit the same article to many directories, there are a number of them who reject the article because it already appears on the web at some other location, whether it be your site or another article directory. So, if I submit to 100 directories, I only get about 70 of them accepted. This is the reason I spin articles, and I am not basing this on anything but my OWN experience. I do however, make sure each spun version is very readable and expresses the intended point(s).
      Very well said and yes, you are absolutely right here.

      Now who are those that still say DUPLICATE CONTENT
      is a myth... it's obviously NOT in the eyes of some of the
      article directory owners,

      Many of them even go through and delete duplicate
      content from their directories, even if such pass through
      the cracks!

      Kingsley
      Signature
      Kingged.com Coaching and Partnership Program
      Is The ONLY Coaching Program That Does 99% Of The Work
      TO MAKE MONEY FOR STUDENTS FROM 1ST DAY
      So they EARN while they LEARN

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