Kinetic Typography For Marketing

13 years ago

Originally Posted by vip-ip

I wonder how much potential this has for Internet Marketing. How much would you pay for a creative Kinetic Typography promo video about your product or service?

How well are you going to match the kinetics to the message?

What makes this video so excellent is the way specific effects are used. When he says "I'm only burning my half," the text is visually sliced in half and one half slides off screen while the other wavers and blurs as it fades to black - literally "going up in smoke."

That's art.

Can you guarantee art?

Can you make a business out of art?

Is art defined as a business?

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Steve Wells

13 years ago

Originally Posted by vip-ip

Hey there fellow Warriors,

Have you seen kinetic typography in action?

YouTube - Dark Knight Kinetic Typography

I wonder how much potential this has for Internet Marketing. How much would you pay for a creative Kinetic Typography promo video about your product or service?

Best Regards,
vip-ip ...

I believe that it has potential. It captivates and demands attention.

The problem is this, for the time required to make these, I doubt you will find many people willing to spend the money that would make it worthwhile. Not saying that people here are cheap, but there are many, many looking for a deal and to them a deal would probably be under what its worth to do these types of graphics.

I was playing around with Adobe After Effects last night designing some graphic text intro's for myself and just for a 15 sec simple design it took some time, not lots, but some. I can't imagine what it would take to make a video like that time wise because it has lots of transitions and effects, not to mention the exact cueing of the text transitions with the audio.

If I were to do this for someone, I would not charge less than $150.00.

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The Kid 13 years ago

OMG, thanks for posting this.

I have no idea what I can use something like this for but I.AM.INTRIGUED!

http://www.youtube.com/user/Jamaican.../0/3ZbTedOkDkI
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vip-ip

13 years ago

No one can guarantee art, no one can guarantee a video's success, but people can judge a particular design firm's quality by seeing their samples. I've asked a few contractors and freelancers, and those who make KT videos worth your time ask anywhere between $40 and $80 per hour.

The process is complex: they have to come up with a hand-written storyboard, then they verify it with you, then they design it, then you ask for revisions, etc etc. It's tedious, no question about it. The success depends on what you do with the video and what the script for it is.

I think there's a million ways to approach a KT video creation process. I feel like if you stick to one plan after dismissing some of the worse ideas, the final product will be exceptional.

Best Regards,
vip-ip ...

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CDarklock

13 years ago

Originally Posted by vip-ip

The process is complex: they have to come up with a hand-written storyboard, then they verify it with you, then they design it, then you ask for revisions, etc etc.

Do you really think a field full of people complaining about the $3 articles they ordered is willing to go through that process?

I don't think IM is a good place for this stuff. I think this is much more the sort of thing that needs to be part of a professional design portfolio marketed to service bureaus for future independent contracting.

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Bill Farnham

13 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Do you really think a field full of people complaining about the $3 articles they ordered is willing to go through that process?

I don't think IM is a good place for this stuff. I think this is much more the sort of thing that needs to be part of a professional design portfolio marketed to service bureaus for future independent contracting.

I agree.

I think the application would be much better suited for branding, especially in the off-line world, where the budgets for such things are big enough to handle the costs.

Steve Wells mentioned if he were to do a video like the one shown he would need at least $150 to do it. I bet after doing a few of those the price would go up dramatically.

It's not so much the technical end of things that is the limiting factor, it's as Caliban mentioned earlier, the artistic end of things is where the bottleneck would show up. It's an artform more so than a technical one. You could create canned scripts to manipulate the text, but actually creating a composition that floored people on the cheap would be the challange.

~Bill

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Steve Wells

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Bill Farnham

I agree.

I think the application would be much better suited for branding, especially in the off-line world, where the budgets for such things are big enough to handle the costs.

Steve Wells mentioned if he were to do a video like the one shown he would need at least $150 to do it. I bet after doing a few of those the price would go up dramatically.

It's not so much the technical end of things that is the limiting factor, it's as Caliban mentioned earlier, the artistic end of things is where the bottleneck would show up. It's an artform more so than a technical one. You could create canned scripts to manipulate the text, but actually creating a composition that floored people on the cheap would be the challange.

~Bill

Correct Bill, I just mentioned $150.00 as a minimum low point. I believe that $150 is too low, but was trying to throw out a number that I thought might possibly work on this forum.

If I was a master at adobe after effects and super fast, I might maybe could do it for few extra bucks here and there for spending money, but my whole point just as CD said is that this forum would not support a product like that.

Thats a high quality product, that someone could easily get $500.00 to do, if marketed to the right people.

In all reality after doing minisites for $197.00 I want to charge $300.00 because I spend lots of time on them, not because I do not know how, but because I am more of a perfectionist when it comes to minisites or ecover designs, and can't do something half ass. Even if it takes me more time, which is a good thing but it also kills my hourly rate.

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vip-ip

13 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Do you really think a field full of people complaining about the $3 articles they ordered is willing to go through that process?

I don't think IM is a good place for this stuff. I think this is much more the sort of thing that needs to be part of a professional design portfolio marketed to service bureaus for future independent contracting.

Good point. On the contrary, though, there is the odd chance of finding a successful marketer already earning mid- to high $x,xxx a month who will become a regular client. One client like that alone can net you $2k a month and up.

Best Regards,
vip-ip ...

P.S.: CDarklock, your signature image doesn't go anywhere (page cannot be found).

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CDarklock 13 years ago

Originally Posted by vip-ip

P.S.: CDarklock, your signature image doesn't go anywhere (page cannot be found).

Server problems. Got a guy on it already, but he needs to coordinate with the data centre in the morning.
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Marc Rodill

13 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Do you really think a field full of people complaining about the $3 articles they ordered is willing to go through that process?

I don't think IM is a good place for this stuff. I think this is much more the sort of thing that needs to be part of a professional design portfolio marketed to service bureaus for future independent contracting.

When you say that, I get the feeling that you are being unnecessarily close-minded on this subject.

The "field full of people complaining about $3 articles" are not those who are successful in this business. It's a moot point.

There are plenty of highly successful marketers who spend big bucks on video production. And you probably know this already.

Pardon me, but, I don't get what you are trying to do. Sometimes I just think you like to play "devil's advocate" no matter what.

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CDarklock 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Marc Rodill

There are plenty of highly successful marketers who spend big bucks on video production. And you probably know this already.

And they are not getting their video production from the WSO forum.

They are more commonly getting it from design service bureaus, who match clients directly to portfolios that seem to offer what the client wants and needs.

Which is precisely where I recommended this sort of thing be targeted. It's not just IMers who go to these service bureaus, but Fortune 500 companies, PR firms, television and movie production studios, and major nonprofits conducting fundraising campaigns. You know... people with budgets.

That's not a "devil's advocate" position. This work, in my opinion, is worth more than the WSO forum will bear. It is comparable in value to a sales letter from a professional copywriter, and there are precious few of them getting any clients in the WSO forum.
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webapex

13 years ago

That's a great example, someone is marketing an ad text to video conversion tool, that "creates a video in seconds" I could not re-find it. Perhaps an automated tool could use combinations of text style B I U programmed into the source text document to specify 7 different effects.

There are banner ads that use some dynamic text, there's something like a one time 10 second limit in some ad networks.

Addition:
Here's a recent thread asking about automatic text to video
http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...es-videos.html

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vip-ip

13 years ago

WebApex,

There is not a single "automation" program out there that can create as stunning of a result as kinetic typography. If there is, then it must not be marketed too well - I've spent 3 hours looking for one yesterday and did not find one.

The software you were checking out earlier likely just displays the text in some sort of presentable manner with *maybe* a robotic voiceover. But no 3D effects, no creative transitions, no extra graphic pieces.

Best Regards,
vip-ip ...

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Steve Wells

13 years ago

Originally Posted by vip-ip

Hey there fellow Warriors,

Have you seen kinetic typography in action?

YouTube - Dark Knight Kinetic Typography

I wonder how much potential this has for Internet Marketing. How much would you pay for a creative Kinetic Typography promo video about your product or service?

Best Regards,
vip-ip ...

Heres a great example of Kenetic Typography used as an intro video LOOK HERE!

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vip-ip 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Steve Wells

Heres a great example of Kenetic Typography used as an intro video LOOK HERE!

Ditto! How did I miss that one?

So if anyone would mind answering the following questions just to give us some quantifiable data to look at to assess KT as a IM tool:

What size business do you own?

What's your advertising budget per month or per quarter?

Would you be interested in kinetic typography for marketing purposes?

How much would you pay for a 30-second ad? A 60-second ad? A 90-second ad?

I think looking at these actual numbers will provide the answer :rolleyes:

Best Regards,
vip-ip ...
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Rick TVG

13 years ago

The CPALead piece is, well, low-end as far as f/x etc vs. the Dark Knight piece, not what you'd call exciting/intriguing kinetics. But it does make you keep watching, which is the objective.

If you want some idea of production costs for high-end stuff, call PacTitle. But basically, it's pretty difficult to walk into a Cadillac dealer and drive of with a new STS for the price of Yugo.

"Big Bucks" in the world of titling & f/x, they won't answer the phone for less than $250K

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Bill Farnham

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Rick TVG

The CPALead piece is, well, low-end as far as f/x etc vs. the Dark Knight piece, not what you'd call exciting/intriguing kinetics. But it does make you keep watching, which is the objective.

If you want some idea of production costs for high-end stuff, call PacTitle. But basically, it's pretty difficult to walk into a Cadillac dealer and drive of with a new STS for the price of Yugo.

"Big Bucks" in the world of titling & f/x, they won't answer the phone for less than $250K

Rick,

Are you trying to tell use we won't be able to get a video like this one for under $300.00

YouTube - Shop Vac (kinetic typography animation)

~Bill

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Steve Wells

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Rick TVG

The CPALead piece is, well, low-end as far as f/x etc vs. the Dark Knight piece, not what you'd call exciting/intriguing kinetics. But it does make you keep watching, which is the objective.

If you want some idea of production costs for high-end stuff, call PacTitle. But basically, it's pretty difficult to walk into a Cadillac dealer and drive of with a new STS for the price of Yugo.

"Big Bucks" in the world of titling & f/x, they won't answer the phone for less than $250K

If someone decides to pay anywhere even close to $250,000 for a kenetic video, I would say that they are about as bad as our goverment when it comes to managing money properly.

You could get a kenetic video like the dark knight video for waaaaay less than that. There are a few Romanian Adobe After Effect specialist, that I am sure would entertain the idea for $1,000

Sure I guess if you want to hire someone who has made a name for themselves you might get a huge bill, but why do that when you have google search and there are sooo many talented adobe after effects guys out there? Some probably as young as 15 or 16 years old.

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tandren544

13 years ago

I would definitely pay for this, however, the one you showed in the video is a little too flashy for my tastes. If I was selling an art or music related product, I would definitely use this in video marketing attempts.

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vip-ip

13 years ago

Originally Posted by tandren544

I would definitely pay for this, however, the one you showed in the video is a little too flashy for my tastes. If I was selling an art or music related product, I would definitely use this in video marketing attempts.

Any good designer will ask you what style you want the video in :rolleyes:

Best Regards,
vip-ip ...

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Mike Baker

13 years ago

The problem with this type of effect is they can take quite an amount of time as already stated, and to get your money's worth I don't believe it would be something you could sell and make a profit, especially in the IM field. If you look at

my example

you will notice it is only 23 seconds long and only contains the basic elements. There is yet to be the cup tilting at an angle that dispenses water into the bottle on the next frame, as well as the bottle tilting to empty the water into the teacup which opens to accept the water, etc. Now this took me several hours to make and I'm only in the beginner-to-moderate level in After Effects. For a Professional to make this it would take maybe 1/3 to 1/4 of the time. So I can't see a Pro making something like this and selling it for $40 to $80 and be happy with that.

The other problem with this is I doubt it could ever be automated as the text effects are linked to the audio. In this example, I had to slowly scroll through Bruce Lee's audio to find where he begins a new word to sync it up with the effect. So an automated program would have to scan the audio to find the beginning of each new word, and even then you would have to edit the output as it wouldn't be perfect because of background noise etc in the audio. It's quite a tedious process!

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vip-ip

13 years ago

Highly doubt that many 15-16 year olds make professional KT videos, and even if they do chances are they're not putting themselves out there to make money.

Best Regards,
vip-ip ...

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Steve Wells

13 years ago

Originally Posted by vip-ip

Highly doubt that many 15-16 year olds make professional KT videos, and even if they do chances are they're not putting themselves out there to make money.

Best Regards,
vip-ip ...

Professional KT videos? Honestly what do they need to know that they do not have open access to? Adobe After Effects and Google Search pretty much gives you whatever you need.

Forsake of arguement, lets say 16-21.

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vip-ip

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Steve Wells

Professional KT videos? Honestly what do they need to know that they do not have open access to?

Creativity. It's not the moving letters and camera zooming/panning that's the hard part. Indeed, it can be learned in a couple of hours with a few quick tutorials on Google.

The time-consuming part is creating the ideas for what's going to be animated, how it's going to be animated, which graphics will need to be made from scratch in vector format, and how's it all going to align to whatever voiceover constraints you may have.

Best Regards,
vip-ip ...

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CDarklock

13 years ago

Originally Posted by vip-ip

The time-consuming part is creating the ideas for what's going to be animated, how it's going to be animated, which graphics will need to be made from scratch in vector format, and how's it all going to align to whatever voiceover constraints you may have.

"When I first started, a punch was just a punch. Then a punch was much more than a punch. Now, a punch... is just a punch." - Bruce Lee

The 16-25 year old who thinks a punch is just a punch is usually on the wrong side of a punch being much more than a punch.

In general, the 16-25 range is where most people have realised a punch is much more than a punch. But a punch won't be just a punch again until they're about thirty or so.

Same with pretty much everything. First it is what it is, then it's a hell of a lot more, and then it just is what it is again. Name your craft. Dancing. Painting. Playing guitar. Programming. Sales. CPA. PPC. Article marketing. Product creation. Video production.

Look at what you're doing. Which side of it being much more than that are you on?

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sierraandmo

13 years ago

I think that KT has it's applications in IM. It may not suit everyone's needs or tastes, but it definitely demands attention in a world where people seem to have shorter attention spans.

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vip-ip

13 years ago

CD,

As much as I love action flicks, I'm not quite sure how the Bruce Lee quote applies here. Are you saying that when people first get creative, they like it, but then they get really seriously into it until their 30s when it becomes just boring routine? If my interpretation is right, then I disagree. If you're an artistic person - the kind of person it takes to make impressive KT videos - then the thrill of being 18-40 is in the adventure, the chase for more creative ideas, the pursuit of concepts that will work better for the various businesses you end up producing videos for. Kind of like being a doctor: that's why they call it "medical practice."

But then again (assuming that Bruce Lee's quote, indeed, applies to every aspect of Internet Marketing as you've implied), what does a college knucklehead like me know about being on the other side of the fence?

Best Regards,
vip-ip ...

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CDarklock 13 years ago

Originally Posted by vip-ip

Are you saying that when people first get creative, they like it, but then they get really seriously into it until their 30s when it becomes just boring routine?

No... I'm saying that everything you learn goes through three stages.

1. This is easy, there's nothing to it.

2. Wait - this is complicated. There is a rich and varied amount of subtlety here, which is trivial neither to understand nor to implement. You know what, I kind of suck at this.

3. This is easy, there's nothing to it.

It's easy to tell when someone's in stage 2. Telling the difference between stages 1 and 3, on the other hand, can be tricky.
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vip-ip

13 years ago

I think stage 2 isn't achieved until you have samples (coming back to KT). That's the objective difference: when you know what it takes to make it happen - and the only way to find out is by doing it - then you're past stage 1. Because by that point, you've most likely ran into unexpected roadblocks and you start realizing how hard things really are, as opposed to how hard they once seemed to be.

Best Regards,
vip-ip ...

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CDarklock 13 years ago

Originally Posted by vip-ip

I think stage 2 isn't achieved until you have samples (coming back to KT).

I think they actually have to be professional-quality samples. There are lots of people who do type that slides on a video overlay and the words pop up in sync with the audio track, but that's not all there is to it - and when you compare that to the example videos you've shown, it's pretty obvious that the difference in skill levels is almost astronomical.

Think of it like a dancing bear. It's not that the bear dances well, but that the bear dances at all. And he's not going to be winning any competitions. When you start out doing KT (or anything else), just being able to do SOMETHING is good enough - it may look like crap, but hell, YOU did it and it's YOURS.

Indeed, all your friends will look at it and go "wow, someone I know did this, and it's really good... as far as stuff done by people I know."

I'm on a number of mailing lists and forums for writers. Lots of really, REALLY bad writers come in to show off what they've done. They ask what we think. We tell them. And they get all pissy because their friends and family have given them all this encouragement for years.

That's as may be, but your friends and family clearly aren't writers, and I'm guessing they don't read much either. You're just a dancing bear, and if you want to be a dancer, you've got a pretty damn long road ahead of you.

I've been on the other side of this, incidentally. I was told my entire life what a great artist I was. I went to college and immediately declared a major in art. And within a couple months, I discovered that I am actually a really crappy artist with very little serious talent or potential.

So I don't go around trying to make a living drawing and painting, because I'm no good at them. I love doing them, and I keep doing them, but for God's sake, just because I like it doesn't mean I deserve to be paid for it.
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Kinetic Typography For Marketing

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