Things That Make Me Unsubscribe #7

77 replies
I take this precious time to write this because time is precious.

I received a marketing email today with the following:

"If you were caught up in the madness over the weekend, chances are you missed the email I sent late Friday, so here it is again."

It was from a marketer that I respect and have purchased from several times.

But...

...it's just one of many typical "hit-em-again-with-a-repeat-email and maybe they'll come to their senses and buy my stuff" kinds of emails that seem to be increasing.

Another one is "Oh, shoot! I gave you the wrong link. Here's the right one! Now read my spiel all over again to see if you want to click on it, heh heh heh."

Maybe it works.

But I'm unsubscribing from any repeated emails.

I'm organized enough to see it the first time, thanks, and respond or not.

Time is too precious.
#make #things #unsubscribe
  • Profile picture of the author Michael Shook
    I am curious as to why you don't just delete the email from your inbox, especially if this is from someone you seem to have liked before.
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    • Profile picture of the author terryrayburn
      Originally Posted by JMichaelZ View Post

      I am curious as to why you don't just delete the email from your inbox, especially if this is from someone you seem to have liked before.
      That has been my practice in the past, but even opening and skimming emails to see what they are about is very time consuming.

      Take some of your daily unnecessary habits which take seconds or minutes, and multiply them out for a year or 10 years, and you will be shocked.

      If opening and skimming even five emails a day unnecessarily took only 5 minutes:

      5 min. X 6 days = 30 minutes per week

      30 min./wk X 50 weeks = 25 hours = over 3 full unproductive days!

      I think those numbers are extremely conservative, but...

      If you're not wasting at least that on opening dumb emails, you are even a better organized person than I

      "But what if you miss something really good?", you may ask.

      Ah-h-h-h, Grasshopper, that's the trap
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  • Profile picture of the author ryanbiddulph
    Repeat emails in that short a time frame can be a turn-off.

    Put out New Copy with each email. I can't see the use in doing otherwise. Well, I can see it from the perspective from the person who has the list but not from the people receiving emails.

    RB
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    Ryan Biddulph inspires you to be a successful blogger with his courses, 100 plus eBooks, audio books and blog at Blogging From Paradise
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by terryrayburn View Post

    I received a marketing email today with the following:

    "If you were caught up in the madness over the weekend, chances are you missed the email I sent late Friday, so here it is again."
    Translation: "I expected to make more sales. I don't know why I didn't, so I'm just going to do the same thing over again in the hope that it will double them."

    I've never had this problem. Largely because I don't expect anyone on my list to buy anything, ever, so whenever someone does I'm just pleasantly surprised. But if I did, I'd probably do something like this.

    "Late Friday, I sent an email advertising a product, and I didn't sell as many copies as I expected. I know we're all busy and time is precious, so I'm honestly trying to deliver the best value I can to you, and it looks like I didn't do a very good job of that with this offer... so if you've got a moment, and you didn't buy the product, could you just hit reply and let me know why? Because, sales revenue aside, it really does bother me that I sent out an offer which interested so few of my list members."

    And, since I'm here, I'm curious. Would an email like this be preferable to the one you got? Why or why not? What makes it better/worse?
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    "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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    • Profile picture of the author KathyK
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post


      I've never had this problem. Largely because I don't expect anyone on my list to buy anything, ever, so whenever someone does I'm just pleasantly surprised. But if I did, I'd probably do something like this.

      "Late Friday, I sent an email advertising a product, and I didn't sell as many copies as I expected. I know we're all busy and time is precious, so I'm honestly trying to deliver the best value I can to you, and it looks like I didn't do a very good job of that with this offer... so if you've got a moment, and you didn't buy the product, could you just hit reply and let me know why? Because, sales revenue aside, it really does bother me that I sent out an offer which interested so few of my list members."

      And, since I'm here, I'm curious. Would an email like this be preferable to the one you got? Why or why not? What makes it better/worse?
      Yes, very much preferable. You'd probably even get a reply. Because you wanted to know what I think about it. And because I'd see it as an honest question. (At least until everyone started doing that...). :rolleyes:
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      Cheers,
      Kathy

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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by KathyK View Post

        And because I'd see it as an honest question.
        Funnily enough, when you ask honest questions, they tend to look like honest questions.

        The surprising thing to me is that I think deep down, everybody actually wants the answer to this question. But instead of coming right out and asking for it, they think it's necessary to trick their subscribers into answering, or to sit around rubbing their chin while they try and imagine the answer.

        I think it was about three weeks after I started IM that Frank Kern released a video suggesting that if you want to know what your customers are thinking... maybe you should just ask them.
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        "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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        • Profile picture of the author KathyK
          Indeed - I agree completely. The problem comes (as my eye-roll comment stated) when things that start out honest get 'picked up' as a 'technique.'
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          Cheers,
          Kathy

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    • Profile picture of the author John Lenaghan
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      "Late Friday, I sent an email advertising a product, and I didn't sell as many copies as I expected. I know we're all busy and time is precious, so I'm honestly trying to deliver the best value I can to you, and it looks like I didn't do a very good job of that with this offer... so if you've got a moment, and you didn't buy the product, could you just hit reply and let me know why? Because, sales revenue aside, it really does bother me that I sent out an offer which interested so few of my list members."

      And, since I'm here, I'm curious. Would an email like this be preferable to the one you got? Why or why not? What makes it better/worse?
      This question was worded to be directed to the OP, but I'm going to answer anyway

      It would be preferable to me, as long as it didn't come every Monday, after a failed weekend sale (as already pointed out by Dennis Gaskill a few posts up).

      Whether or not it would get a response from me would depend on what I had on my plate at the time and who sent it. Coming from someone who provides value and not just a constant barrage of unrelated pitches would probably get a response.

      I think one of the reasons we don't see emails like this more often (or maybe at all?) is because nobody wants to sound like they don't know what they're doing. If someone is on your list, the assumption is they signed up to learn something. If you send them an email saying "I failed, can you help me figure out why?" it's like admitting you're not the "expert" they thought you were.

      At least, I imagine this could be the case in the internet marketing niche. It might be a plus in another niche, since you're an XYZ expert, not necessarily a marketing expert.

      John
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    • Profile picture of the author Palusko
      Kind of hard to say from a "could be/would be" stand point, but I guess this type of email would actually be worse for me. I am just not sure I would care that you are not making enough sales. On one hand, it does sound more honest than the original, on the other hand, it sounds too "needy". I am not on your list to make you sales (from my point of view, of course), I am on your list to get what I want. Basically, your email (but neither the original) answers "what's in it for me?", but are instead too much about the sender. After all, how is your mistake, disorganization, or in the case of your email - your poor promotion - my problem?

      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      "Late Friday, I sent an email advertising a product, and I didn't sell as many copies as I expected. I know we're all busy and time is precious, so I'm honestly trying to deliver the best value I can to you, and it looks like I didn't do a very good job of that with this offer... so if you've got a moment, and you didn't buy the product, could you just hit reply and let me know why? Because, sales revenue aside, it really does bother me that I sent out an offer which interested so few of my list members."

      And, since I'm here, I'm curious. Would an email like this be preferable to the one you got? Why or why not? What makes it better/worse?
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by Palusko View Post

        I am not on your list to make you sales (from my point of view, of course), I am on your list to get what I want.
        So you'd prefer I act like this list is just for you to get what you want, and I operate it out of some kind of altruism?

        Because, personally, I find that offensive. When someone says "I'm deeply concerned that you're not going to get in on this great offer," I know damn well that what they're really concerned about is how I'm not giving them money. When they don't mention that, it feels to me like they're trying to conceal it, which fundamentally feels like they're lying to me.

        So that's sort of my personal preferences coming to the fore on this. If I don't admit outright that I sent you the offer to make sales, it feels to me like I'm pretending I didn't - which is a lie. And I don't like lying to my list, because I wouldn't like being lied to on someone else's.
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        "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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        • Profile picture of the author ExRat
          Hi Eric (post #34),

          but, I understand... for some... it's not about the money... it's about being nice and fuzzy-warm.
          It's funny that you use the word 'psycho' in your sig -

          then you'd be INSANE/NUTS/PSYCHO to not CLICK HERE!
          You do realise that being insane or nuts is completely different to being a psychopath? Many people equate psychopathy with brutally stabbing women in their showers, thanks to the Hitchcock film.

          It's actually got a lot more to do with a complete lack of empathy, or conscience. This is often displayed as a complete failure to understand/consider the feelings of others - to see the world through a narcissistic lens where the only thing that matters is personal gain, with a complete disregard of the consequences to others and how they feel about those consequences. They have also been observed to encourage a negative outcome for others who they see as inferior to them, purely for their own sadistic pleasure. Can you believe that?

          It may sound odd to some people, but there's actually absolutely nothing wrong at all with conducting business in a manner that is designed to produce a 'nice' or 'fuzzy-warm' result for both parties of the business transaction. It's completely and utterly normal, healthy, socially responsible and mutually beneficial to take this approach (unless of course, the other party is a psychopath, in which case they may not be able to handle the fact they are not the only party to benefit from the transaction.)

          It's also totally possible to take this 'fuzzy-warm' approach in conjunction with a healthy desire to turn a good profit at the same time - the two goals are not mutually exclusive.

          Hope this helps.

          Hi Terry (OP),

          But I'm unsubscribing from any repeated emails.
          Why?

          I don't mean 'why are you unsubscribing from those particular lists.'

          I mean why are you subscribed to any of them at all?

          I'd love for someone here to explain to me what they think I am missing out on by not being subscribed to any internet marketer's email lists.

          But I doubt that they can come up with anything credible, except some lame attempt to prove that it's worth studying what others are doing so that I can copy them and become another copy/paste marketer.

          I would hate to dilute my originality, creativeness and free-thinking skills by spending my time absorbing n'th generation regurgitations. It's just not logical, unless one is distinctly lacking in those originality and creativity areas and has given up on developing their ability in them.

          Therefore, perhaps those who feel that creativity and originality are useful and valuable traits to bring to the information marketing arena which could help them to rise above the general noise, saturation and proliferation of tiresome copycats should understand and recognise the conflicting approaches to this business and carefully choose the advice they absorb, or ignore, accordingly.
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          Roger Davis

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          • Profile picture of the author Tom B
            Banned
            Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

            Hi Eric (post #34),

            It's funny that you use the word 'psycho' in your sig -

            You do realise that being insane or nuts is completely different to being a psychopath? Many people equate psychopathy with brutally stabbing women in their showers, thanks to the Hitchcock film.

            It's actually got a lot more to do with a complete lack of empathy, or conscience. This is often displayed as a complete failure to understand/consider the feelings of others - to see the world through a narcissistic lens where the only thing that matters is personal gain, with a complete disregard of the consequences to others and how they feel about those consequences. They have also been observed to encourage a negative outcome for others who they see as inferior to them, purely for their own sadistic pleasure. Can you believe that?

            It may sound odd to some people, but there's actually absolutely nothing wrong at all with conducting business in a manner that is designed to produce a 'nice' or 'fuzzy-warm' result for both parties of the business transaction. It's completely and utterly normal, healthy, socially responsible and mutually beneficial to take this approach (unless of course, the other party is a psychopath, in which case they may not be able to handle the fact they are not the only party to benefit from the transaction.)

            It's also totally possible to take this 'fuzzy-warm' approach in conjunction with a healthy desire to turn a good profit at the same time - the two goals are not mutually exclusive.

            Hope this helps.

            Hi Terry (OP),

            Why?

            I don't mean 'why are you unsubscribing from those particular lists.'

            I mean why are you subscribed to any of them at all?

            I'd love for someone here to explain to me what they think I am missing out on by not being subscribed to any internet marketer's email lists.

            But I doubt that they can come up with anything credible, except some lame attempt to prove that it's worth studying what others are doing so that I can copy them and become another copy/paste marketer.

            I would hate to dilute my originality, creativeness and free-thinking skills by spending my time absorbing n'th generation regurgitations. It's just not logical, unless one is distinctly lacking in those originality and creativity areas and has given up on developing their ability in them.

            Therefore, perhaps those who feel that creativity and originality are useful and valuable traits to bring to the information marketing arena which could help them to rise above the general noise, saturation and proliferation of tiresome copycats should understand and recognise the conflicting approaches to this business and carefully choose the advice they absorb, or ignore, accordingly.
            Hey Roger,

            Glad to see you posting again.

            I could be wrong, so I hope you will correct me, but I thought at one time you signed up for lists to study how they were marketing.

            I keep signed up on a few lists just to see what type of product they are coming out.

            That and this forum helps me know what is hot at this time. After being in this market for some years, I know hot topics seem to rotate. One week it is offline then next is article marketing and so on...

            I can just dust off one of my products that was created, in the same sub niche, and piggy back on the popularity. Luckily, most of the types of software I create won't need much rework to bring back to life.

            That is one way I stay in touch with the market.

            I never found that watching others killed my creativity. I always found the opposite to happen.

            I have a degree in Graphic Design (along with computers) and I was taught to look at other designs to help generate the creative juices. It worked every time and I found my designs were even better.

            No, they were not copied but the ideas I got from studying others were an inspiration.

            I do the same with other marketers.

            Tomatoe... tomato


            Happy Holidays Rog!
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          • Profile picture of the author Lance K
            Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

            Why?

            I don't mean 'why are you unsubscribing from those particular lists.'

            I mean why are you subscribed to any of them at all?

            I'd love for someone here to explain to me what they think I am missing out on by not being subscribed to any internet marketer's email lists.
            Roger,

            Let's take the "Internet Marketing" stigma out of the equation. Let's pretend the email was from the local oil change shop that services the OP's car.

            If you were the shop owner, would you worry about the few super organized people who might be offended by a reminder or 2nd notice type of email about a special promotion? Or would you think more about those who would find great value in a 50% off special (or whatever it is) in today's (or any) economy and may have missed the first message?
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            "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
            ~ Zig Ziglar
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          • Profile picture of the author terryrayburn
            Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

            Hi Eric (post #34),

            Hi Terry (OP),

            Why?

            I don't mean 'why are you unsubscribing from those particular lists.'

            I mean why are you subscribed to any of them at all?

            I'd love for someone here to explain to me what they think I am missing out on by not being subscribed to any internet marketer's email lists.

            But I doubt that they can come up with anything credible, except some lame attempt to prove that it's worth studying what others are doing so that I can copy them and become another copy/paste marketer.
            I subscribe to lists for three main reasons:

            1. To get something free (and hopefully valuable) and as a courtesy, give the marketer an opportunity to sell me something. Sometimes I buy.

            2. To be made aware of offers from those I value and respect. Sometimes I buy.

            3. To receive free stuff from those who understand the Law of Reciprocity and value me enough as a prospect to give me good teaching, content, software, etc.

            "Credible" or "Lame"?
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          • Profile picture of the author 2ndopkate
            I'm just grateful that most of these 'commercial's don't have audio that goes sky high like the TV commercials do. I think my TV is on mute more than not.
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        • Profile picture of the author Palusko
          I am on your list because there's something I want. You want me on your list because there's something you want. That does not mean that one of us is in this relationship to exploit the other. Quite the opposite, it needs to be beneficial to both, otherwise, one of us would leave. But, it is still just a business, not a love story.

          So, when it comes to you benefiting from me (that is, to sell me something), the email you wrote is simply not going to cut it. The fact that you openly admit you are trying to sell me something does not mean much, because I already know that fact. Admitting an obvious fact to gain trust is a good copywriting technique and may work on many people, but it is a much harder sell when it comes to IMers (assuming the product was geared towards IMers).

          If you tell me you did not sell as expected, I could certainly relate, we've all been there. But to start asking why I did not buy the product? The answer is always the same - I was not interested. Of course, if you want to know WHY I was not interested, than maybe make a simple and quick poll to get me participate, but do you really expect me to write you an email explaining my reasons why I did not buy something? Maybe you should explain why I should buy the product instead...

          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

          So you'd prefer I act like this list is just for you to get what you want, and I operate it out of some kind of altruism?

          Because, personally, I find that offensive. When someone says "I'm deeply concerned that you're not going to get in on this great offer," I know damn well that what they're really concerned about is how I'm not giving them money. When they don't mention that, it feels to me like they're trying to conceal it, which fundamentally feels like they're lying to me.

          So that's sort of my personal preferences coming to the fore on this. If I don't admit outright that I sent you the offer to make sales, it feels to me like I'm pretending I didn't - which is a lie. And I don't like lying to my list, because I wouldn't like being lied to on someone else's.
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          • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
            Originally Posted by Palusko View Post

            Maybe you should explain why I should buy the product instead...
            Well, the initial email is where I explained why you should buy the product. Apparently, I didn't do a good job. If I try again without getting more information, it's going to be no different than what the OP is complaining about in the first place.

            And you're the only one with that information, so I have to get it from you.

            The mention of not getting enough sales isn't an effort to gain trust. It's the reason why. Why do I care what you think? Why do I want to deliver value to you? Why do I want you to hit reply and explain why you don't buy?

            Because I want to make more sales.

            And yes, I know you're already aware of that. But I still have to give you the reason why. And if I don't give you that reason why, the reason I give you is a load of crap and we both know it.

            Part of my goal in marketing to my customers and prospects is not to deliver them a load of crap. So if I leave out the part where I got a disappointing response to that last pitch, I'm betraying my own core values. (Frank Kern. Mass Control. Honestly, I'm just going to start saying FKMC.)

            There's an additional aspect to this, as well. Another part of the marketing persona I want to portray is that I tell people the embarrassing and ugly things about my own business, because most people cover it up and I think we learn more from those things than we do from the impressive and pretty ones.

            So because I find more value in my failures than I do in my successes, delivering real value to my list that they don't get from anyone and everyone else... means telling them the embarrassing and ugly bits.

            If you're not on my list to buy, but to study my marketing, the value for you wasn't in the product I pitched. It was in the pitch I made for it. And your value goes up if I say "that pitch didn't work very well."

            If you don't happen to see that, or get the value from it, maybe there's value for you somewhere else. Probably not in this message. Probably not in the previous message. And if it's been too long since you got any value from my list, I honestly do want you to unsubscribe.

            FKMC.
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            "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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            • Profile picture of the author ExRat
              Hi Terry,

              "Credible" or "Lame"?
              Sorry, I caused a misunderstanding, I think.

              The first two sentences were questions addressed to you.

              The next two statements (starting with 'I'd love for someone here to...') were addressed broadly to the whole group.

              The 'lame' comment was meant chiefly for the email marketers who try and provide justification for the typical copy/paste emails that get sent out - the same type of ones that you are talking about in your OP.

              So I wasn't aiming the 'lame' comment directly at you.

              For clarity - what I am saying is that whenever these discussions arise, the same answer pops up on the one side of the argument, the side which usually contains those who send those emails out - that argument is that any marketer worth their salt needs to be on these lists to keep up with what is happening in the marketplace, to examine what other marketers are doing etc.

              I disagree with this point of view and have personally tried both approaches (being subscribed and not being subscribed) and I find it simple to keep up to date with the marketplace and to know about current techniques without being subscribed and having my inbox pummelled with repetitive, nauseating, amateurish pitches.

              I actually think that being 'disconnected' in this way gives someone an advantage, because I feel that the marketers who are touted in the IM mainstream as having talent and ability are actually the opposite - I think that they're tired, dated, uninspiring, unskilled copycats and that their 'legendary status' is a convenient myth. That's what happens when you get syndicates monopolising markets and blowing each others trumpets.
              Signature


              Roger Davis

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            • Profile picture of the author Palusko
              But what is "not enough", or "not as expected"? It's not really embarrassing until I know more exact numbers. Otherwise, it could come across as too greedy, too pushy or even sneaky. Without some understanding what you expected, I will not understand if you are really honest, or just trying to play me.

              Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

              So if I leave out the part where I got a disappointing response to that last pitch, I'm betraying my own core values. (Frank Kern. Mass Control. Honestly, I'm just going to start saying FKMC.)

              There's an additional aspect to this, as well. Another part of the marketing persona I want to portray is that I tell people the embarrassing and ugly things about my own business, because most people cover it up and I think we learn more from those things than we do from the impressive and pretty ones.

              So because I find more value in my failures than I do in my successes, delivering real value to my list that they don't get from anyone and everyone else... means telling them the embarrassing and ugly bits.
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              • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                Originally Posted by Palusko View Post

                Without some understanding what you expected, I will not understand if you are really honest, or just trying to play me.
                If I was trying to play you, wouldn't I just make up the numbers?

                I don't see how that improves anything.
                Signature
                "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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                • Profile picture of the author Palusko
                  Well, that could be said just about anything (especially online), including just saying "not as expected". I mean, you could just made it up too, couldn't you?


                  Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

                  If I was trying to play you, wouldn't I just make up the numbers?

                  I don't see how that improves anything.
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                  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                    Originally Posted by Palusko View Post

                    Well, that could be said just about anything (especially online), including just saying "not as expected". I mean, you could just made it up too, couldn't you?
                    Precisely.

                    But what you just said was that when I say "not as expected," you don't know whether I'm being honest or trying to play you, because you need more exact numbers.

                    What I don't understand is how those numbers - real or otherwise - will in any way alter your perception of whether I am being honest or trying to play you.

                    How am I less likely to have made up the exact numbers? If I'd make up one, I'd make up the other. The question here isn't what I've told you, it's whether you trust me. More details won't change that.
                    Signature
                    "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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                    • Profile picture of the author Palusko
                      I guess the numbers would kind of satisfy my curiosity as what you consider 'bad numbers'. But yes, you are right, there is no real point in it.

                      However, there is a huge and valid point in the trust issue. For example, in your case, I probably would trust you enough to take your word for it, because I have a chance to interact with you on this forum, outside of the email list.

                      Basically, I got to know you outside of sale funnel, sale pitches, free bonuses for signing up etc. Of course, there is a risk that I won't like what you have to say, which would make me NOT to buy from you, but if that's the case, then I am not a good prospect for your list anyway. I think it is very important to be a part of some community and social networks, as that's where the trust is build the most. I simply find emails too impersonal to be effective in trust building, even if you offer good content.

                      I can honestly say, that I have never bought any product pitched to me by email, without either knowing the seller from other sources, or without the product being recommended by someone I knew from other sources. In other words, the number, or even the quality of emails you send me does not matter to me (in terms of buying from you). I am not going to buy from you unless there is some sort of relationship outside of the email list. Just to clarify, I am talking about affiliate type of emails pitching a product, not emails from established companies such as Amazon.

                      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

                      Precisely.

                      But what you just said was that when I say "not as expected," you don't know whether I'm being honest or trying to play you, because you need more exact numbers.

                      What I don't understand is how those numbers - real or otherwise - will in any way alter your perception of whether I am being honest or trying to play you.

                      How am I less likely to have made up the exact numbers? If I'd make up one, I'd make up the other. The question here isn't what I've told you, it's whether you trust me. More details won't change that.
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  • Profile picture of the author tandren544
    This actually made me laugh... I get so many e-mails and offers every day, and take valuable time to read them. When I get two or three e-mails over a span of two or three days all promoting the same product, I unsubscribe immediately.

    My favorites are these:

    "72 Hours Remaining! Don't Miss Out on This One..."
    "71 1/2 Hours Remaining! Click Here Now!"
    and so on to infinity...
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    • Profile picture of the author chris916
      I think these thoughts illustrate very good points. Consider how many of your customers are inundated with sales messages regularly. Look at your market, consider objections, and then tailor the message to get more response and conversion rates. As annoying as they can be, you can flip and use it to your advantage.
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  • Profile picture of the author CurtisN
    By unsubscribing from that person's list, you create a win-win. There is a little losing on both sides, but the wins outweigh the losses.

    You win because you've rid yourself of a supposed annoyance - your inbox will now be a little clearer from now on.

    They win because you've proven yourself to NOT be someone who's their ideal prospect.

    The cynic and/or noob would jump in at this point and say: "Yeah, they want all the suckers to stay on their list and buy all their stuff."

    But hold on now. What if said marketer is actually pushing stuff that is actually of great value? Wouldn't you want to stay on that list? I would. And even if I'm not interested in their stuff, sometimes I stick around anyway just to read or study.

    I signed up for the newsletter over at the Makepeace Total Package because I wanted to learn more about copywriting. These guys have a lot of sales. They'll mail you when there's a week left, 6 days left, 5 days left, 1 day left, 9 hours left...and you know what? It never gets annoying.

    In fact, I want them to mail me more often so I have more to read and study. I want them to pitch me more often with more products because I want to study their pitches (and maybe even buy some stuff).

    Perhaps what I'm trying to say is if you're not content with the content of a newsletter, unsubscribe (which you did). But was it really necessary to let us all know?

    You just weren't the ideal prospect. And we're not talking about some sleazeball here...you said you respect the guy. If it was somebody you didn't respect selling stuff you didn't think was great, this thread would be more justified. In this case...I don't think so.
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    • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
      Originally Posted by CurtisN View Post

      Perhaps what I'm trying to say is if you're not content with the content of a newsletter, unsubscribe (which you did). But was it really necessary to let us all know?
      Your whole response was great by the way, but this is the bit you got the thankyou for
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Sometimes I think the Dukes are sending the emails...


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        • Profile picture of the author Michael Shook
          It actually sounds like a decent marketing idea to send out an email reminding people about what you have for sale.

          Maybe it could have been worded better but it doesn't sound so horrible.
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    • Profile picture of the author terryrayburn
      Originally Posted by CurtisN View Post

      ...if you're not content with the content of a newsletter, unsubscribe (which you did). But was it really necessary to let us all know?
      1. Valid question. Necessary, no. But it implies that my post was just a whining complaint. Not at all.

      2. I typically post for one of two reasons - to ask for help, for which I'm always grateful - or to try to help someone else.

      I never whine -- nor am I merely "sharing my heart", like the guy in the Geico commercial (yellow makes him sad) with the drill sargeant therapist

      3. In this case, I thought there might be some nice marketer out there who wonders why in the world a former customer would ever dream of unsubscribing from such a nice guy or gal.

      4. Please don't take this at all as if I'm condescendingly patting you on the head when I say finally...

      ...There are many great advantages to youth. Appreciating the preciousness of time is seldom one of them. It's often enough not appreciated even by the elderly.

      Ah, heck, it still sounds condescending. My apologies. I respect your comments.
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by terryrayburn View Post

        In this case, I thought there might be some nice marketer out there who wonders why in the world a former customer would ever dream of unsubscribing from such a nice guy or gal.
        Or, conversely, an innocent newbie marketer who is thinking about doing the same thing because he sees everyone else doing it.

        Newbies rarely unsubscribe from lists because of questionable tactics, because they don't understand the tactics are questionable. Instead, they look at almost every tactic they see as a lesson in what they should do themselves.

        They don't get to see the stats on these emails, which help the veteran marketer learn whether to do that again. The only information they get about how well the tactic works is when a helpful list member volunteers to share his reaction publicly.
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      • Profile picture of the author CurtisN
        Originally Posted by terryrayburn View Post

        1. Valid question. Necessary, no. But it implies that my post was just a whining complaint. Not at all.

        2. I typically post for one of two reasons - to ask for help, for which I'm always grateful - or to try to help someone else.

        I never whine -- nor am I merely "sharing my heart", like the guy in the Geico commercial (yellow makes him sad) with the drill sargeant therapist

        3. In this case, I thought there might be some nice marketer out there who wonders why in the world a former customer would ever dream of unsubscribing from such a nice guy or gal.

        4. Please don't take this at all as if I'm condescendingly patting you on the head when I say finally...

        ...There are many great advantages to youth. Appreciating the preciousness of time is seldom one of them. It's often enough not appreciated even by the elderly.

        Ah, heck, it still sounds condescending. My apologies. I respect your comments.
        Understood. And no worries
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      • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
        Originally Posted by terryrayburn View Post

        1. Valid question. Necessary, no. But it implies that my post was just a whining complaint. Not at all.

        2. I typically post for one of two reasons - to ask for help, for which I'm always grateful - or to try to help someone else.

        I never whine -- nor am I merely "sharing my heart", like the guy in the Geico commercial (yellow makes him sad) with the drill sargeant therapist

        3. In this case, I thought there might be some nice marketer out there who wonders why in the world a former customer would ever dream of unsubscribing from such a nice guy or gal.

        4. Please don't take this at all as if I'm condescendingly patting you on the head when I say finally...

        ...There are many great advantages to youth. Appreciating the preciousness of time is seldom one of them. It's often enough not appreciated even by the elderly.

        Ah, heck, it still sounds condescending. My apologies. I respect your comments.
        you say it wasnt a whining complaint... i accept your comment at face value

        but it still wasn't a valid or helpful post

        In fact the marketer didnt use anything approaching a questionable tactic, following up is the backbone of marketing.

        i accept you felt violated in some way and used your right to unsubscribe, but still it isnt a valid reason for unsubscribing except in your opinion.

        The marker involved used time honoured process to follow up with his susbscribers, and wasnt at all deceptive

        There are many great advantages to being experienced ( read older here) but appreciating the preciousness of good marketing follow up isnt neccassarily one of them...even the inexperianced (read youth here) dont always appreciate it either

        Robert
        (56 year old grandpa...read experienced here)
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        • Profile picture of the author terryrayburn
          Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post


          but it still wasn't a valid or helpful post

          In fact the marketer didnt use anything approaching a questionable tactic, following up is the backbone of marketing.

          i accept you felt violated in some way and used your right to unsubscribe, but still it isnt a valid reason for unsubscribing except in your opinion.

          The marker involved used time honoured process to follow up with his susbscribers, and wasnt at all deceptive

          There are many great advantages to being experienced ( read older here) but appreciating the preciousness of good marketing follow up isnt neccassarily one of them...even the inexperianced (read youth here) dont always appreciate it either

          Robert
          (56 year old grandpa...read experienced here)
          Re paragraph 1 above: this is, of course, your opinion, though you seem to minimize the importance of "opinion" in paragraph 3

          Re paragraph 2: I didn't say the marketers methods were a "questionable tactic" as if he were being underhanded or anything. He's in his perfect ethical right to re-email me.

          Re paragraph 3: I didn't say anything about feeling violated, only about making a "quality" decision about my time management, and sharing that decision. Regarding whether it was "valid" -- that, of course is your opinion -- an opinion I value, by the way -- that's why I'm on your list

          Re paragraph 4: I didn't even imply that the marketer was deceptive. Where are you getting this stuff, Robert?
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  • Profile picture of the author altoro80
    yeah i've got that email with the "wrong link" like 3 times
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  • Profile picture of the author donhx
    Originally Posted by terryrayburn View Post

    I take this precious time to write this because time is precious.

    I received a marketing email today with the following:

    "If you were caught up in the madness over the weekend, chances are you missed the email I sent late Friday, so here it is again."

    It was from a marketer that I respect and have purchased from several times.

    But...

    ...it's just one of many typical "hit-em-again-with-a-repeat-email and maybe they'll come to their senses and buy my stuff" kinds of emails that seem to be increasing.

    Another one is "Oh, shoot! I gave you the wrong link. Here's the right one! Now read my spiel all over again to see if you want to click on it, heh heh heh."

    Maybe it works.

    But I'm unsubscribing from any repeated emails.

    I'm organized enough to see it the first time, thanks, and respond or not.

    Time is too precious.
    I hear you. I keep getting these constantly repeated commercials on my TV, which is kinda the same thing. Especially that lizard selling insurance. They seem to try every trick in the book to make me think I'll save 15%. So, I'm doing the same thing you're doing, sort of. I've reprogrammed my remote so that I don't see those channels where the lizard sells insurance. Wait! None of my channels work!

    Joking aside, you have to decide whether you get enough value from the sender to put up with the annoyances you describe. Such emails are definitely annoying, but there may be enough benefits to continue with them anyway.
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  • Profile picture of the author J.M.Wilson
    I had a recent cull like I do every few months. I'm now on two lists officially. However, I still get mail from at least 5. It's bloody annoying
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  • Profile picture of the author templarjustice
    The email subject lines I hate & want to unsubscribe from are:

    1. Here's Your Free Login: What? I never signed up for anything....
    2. Here's Your Commissions: Why thank you, but I wasn't marketing your product or anything close to it.
    3. An account has been created for you: Are you going to charge me now or later? Bend over now or when I log in?
    4. Today Only: Didn't you send this out two weeks ago?
    5. I need Your PayPal Address: You do?
    6. About Your Payment (Final Notice): I've NEVER done business with you....so....
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  • Profile picture of the author ry278
    Banned
    The emails that annoy me the most are the ones with the subject line...

    "You have just made a sale!"

    Then in the body of the email...

    "That's what you'll be seeing soon in your inbox...."


    And if that isn't annoying enough there's no unsubscribe link.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      Translation: "... if I did, I'd probably do something like this.

      "Late Friday, I sent an email advertising a product, and I didn't sell as many copies as I expected. I know we're all busy and time is precious, so I'm honestly trying to deliver the best value I can to you, and it looks like I didn't do a very good job of that with this offer... so if you've got a moment, and you didn't buy the product, could you just hit reply and let me know why? Because, sales revenue aside, it really does bother me that I sent out an offer which interested so few of my list members."

      And, since I'm here, I'm curious. Would an email like this be preferable to the one you got? Why or why not? What makes it better/worse?
      That's something I could respect for the raw honesty. Once anyway. It would probably get old if it was a habitual follow-up.

      Originally Posted by CurtisN View Post

      By unsubscribing from that person's list, you create a win-win. There is a little losing on both sides, but the wins outweigh the losses.

      You win because you've rid yourself of a supposed annoyance - your inbox will now be a little clearer from now on.

      They win because you've proven yourself to NOT be someone who's their ideal prospect.
      Not quite. He said, "It was from a marketer that I respect and have purchased from several times."

      Since he's bought from the guy several times, I'm thinking that's a pretty good prospect the marketer lost. Seems more like a lose/lose situation to me. The marketer lost a paying customer, and the OP lost a marketer he had respect for at one time.

      Perhaps what I'm trying to say is if you're not content with the content of a newsletter, unsubscribe (which you did). But was it really necessary to let us all know?
      I think we were overdue. I don't recall seeing a complaint about marketers marketing in at least 2 weeks.
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      • Profile picture of the author CurtisN
        Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

        I think we were overdue. I don't recall seeing a complaint about marketers marketing in at least 2 weeks.
        Haha, has it been that long? I hope you haven't jinxed it!
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  • Profile picture of the author sarahberra
    That would be so annoying. I would unsubscribe also.
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  • Profile picture of the author dadamson
    A lot of people are using "Re: ..." in the subject line. Sort of makes you think he is replying to an email you sent.

    Annoying... but it makes me look twice...
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  • Profile picture of the author J Bold
    I really don't see the problem sending a follow up email with the same link or same focus as the last email, wanting to send you to the same page.

    I look at it the same as real email communication. Sometimes you send an email to a friend and you want or need or are anxious for a response, don't get one, so you send a second email about the same thing. Happens every day in real communication.

    So, why not communication with your list? No problem, in my opinion. Everyone has their own, and that's mine. I don't worry about such things that truly matter little, as it only takes a few seconds to discard the email once I realize it's the same link/promotion, etc.

    I guess the best way would be to send the follow up email only to people who didn't click the first time, if you truly did not want to annoy people this way. Haven't even checked if that's possible with autoresponders, probably is with some, not with others, not sure.
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  • Profile picture of the author jjoshua
    Actually, I thought about this is issue for a great deal of time. I came to realise that making a newsletter is really not easy. You have to balance both your distribution of marketing emails and your informative emails so that you maintain or grow your subscriber base while making good sales.

    If done right, it can be very profitable.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kevin Riley
      Other side of the coin:

      1. I've had subscribers thank me for sending a follow-up e-mail, because otherwise they would have missed out on a deal or some helpful product. Often, they had meant to follow through, but life gets in the way, so a reminder is appreciated. Or, they missed the first e-mail - which in today's overflowing inbox is a regular occurence.

      2. I get far too many e-mails, after a sale ends, from those lamenting the fact that they missed my earlier e-mail and thus missed out on a special.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tom B
        Banned
        I have had to unsubscribe from one marketers list because of the photos he has been sending.

        He talks about how great life is. I think he even pretends to be married even though it is obvious he isn't into women.

        Take a look at his latest photo.





        Sorry, but the man in that picture isn't fooling anyone pretending to be married to a woman... not that I have a problem with that.


        Sadly, I had to unsubscribe before he sends out a picture of himself, in a reindeer outfit, trying to sell his "Christmas Ornament Riches" program.
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        • Profile picture of the author Ross Vegas
          I wrote the most epic reply, which crashed and vanished into thin air.

          Which is to say that sometimes despite our best intentions, sh*t most always somehow, in someway goes wrong.

          We should all be sympathetic and understanding to the fact that marketing is intended to shape and affect our most personal emotions.

          As list owners don't shy from it and pretend you weren't the cause of it when it invariably goes wrong(as in not your desired result).

          As a subscriber, realize list owners are often speaking to massive amounts of people, where as I eloquently explained, sh*t happens.

          At the end of the day, email marketers must be true to themselves and their own best intentions, albeit at the expense of a few dissenters. Don't chastise them or feel as if they are unjustified and wrong, it's merely a result of the act of marketing.

          In short, your emotion is perfectly valid, yet at the same time impossibly unavoidable.

          You'll learn this as your audience grows.
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        • Profile picture of the author Eric Louviere
          Goodness grief...

          I cant be so warm and fuzzy responding to this thread. Am I reading this thread right??

          Some respected marketer sends "follow up emails" to his/her list and some of you are complaining about that? Tell me it isn't so! Oh God no! How dare he/her do such a thing! Let's pitchfork him right now!

          And to think... I've actually sent "follow up" emails to my list telling people to unsubscribe if they have not bought yet!

          If I had an offline company and some of you were my sales people, you'd be fired. Follow up is essential in marketing and sales. If the follow up attempts did not work, then guess what... there would be no follow up emails sent!

          It's amazing to me... it really is... how so many "marketers" are offended by "marketing"... and go as far as to state their disappointment of being marketed to... on a marketing forum... to other marketers.... who market for a living.

          I certainly mean no offense to you all who are so nice and fuzzy-warm to your list and are timid to sell them stuff, but that'll get you put square in the "I dont make crap online" group.

          Seriously.

          There are newbies and marketers reading this thread thinking to themselves "yeah, I should not follow up with my subscribers" and that would DEAD FREAKING WRONG!

          Ah, why do I even bother.

          Oh and Caliban, I dig you and you know that, but your technique of telling them to hit reply is a good technique on one hand (for interaction and seeming different) but since we're on the topic of "time wasters" that could be a big giant time drainer if you do that every time an email does not convert.

          Lastly, any time I've increased my aggressiveness in marketing to my lists, I've made much more money. but, I understand... for some... it's not about the money... it's about being nice and fuzzy-warm.

          ~Donald Trump
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          • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
            Originally Posted by Eric Louviere View Post

            Oh and Caliban, I dig you and you know that, but your technique of telling them to hit reply is a good technique on one hand (for interaction and seeming different) but since we're on the topic of "time wasters" that could be a big giant time drainer if you do that every time an email does not convert.
            There's a threshold where "hit reply" has to become "fill out this survey" if you expect to get any kind of idea what most of your people are thinking. I'm pretty sure someone like Frank Kern would need a month to recover from the "hit reply" idea if he tried it on his list.

            For me, that threshold is about 1,000 people on the list. I can handle a couple hundred responses in a day or two, and if I'm sending that sort of mail to my list, I'm probably going to book a day or two just to handle them.

            But then, my email inbox has averaged three to five hundred messages a day for over a decade, and that doesn't include the spam (which is about 2/3 of my total mail - 600 to 1,000 spam emails daily). So the prospect of getting a few hundred emails in a couple days isn't shocking and overwhelming to me... it's normal.
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            "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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            • Profile picture of the author Eric Louviere
              Austin is a great place to live. We live in Lakeway, which is right outside of Austin on Lake Travis. Austin has a lot of lakes and rivers, streams and is great for swimming, boating, fishing, etc.

              Yes, we have 6th street here and is loaded with live music and is a great time! Actually, there's live music everywhere in the area. There's SXSW (south by south west) and the film festival, the Austin City Limits festival and too many to list. There's a diverse culture here of weird people, business people, hippies, conservative and liberals. Austin's motto is "keep austin weird".

              And, there's a ton of Internet Marketers here (way too many to list)... and we have monthly group mixers that David Gonzales and Michael Lovitch run... events, masterminds, parties, etc. (I go to them once in a while).

              Ryan Deiss, Perry Belcher and their crew are here... Mike Dillard, we sometimes claim Marlon Sanders, Joe Vitale, Michael Kimble, tons of REI experts, Craig Perrine, Steve Gray, Fabricio Cruz... Eric Louviere... a ton of folks.

              Food is great, people are cool and life is great in Austin!

              ~Stevie Ray Vaughan
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      • Profile picture of the author James Clark
        Originally Posted by Kevin Riley View Post

        Other side of the coin:

        1. I've had subscribers thank me for sending a follow-up e-mail, because otherwise they would have missed out on a deal or some helpful product. Often, they had meant to follow through, but life gets in the way, so a reminder is appreciated. Or, they missed the first e-mail - which in today's overflowing inbox is a regular occurence.

        2. I get far too many e-mails, after a sale ends, from those lamenting the fact that they missed my earlier e-mail and thus missed out on a special.
        Hey Kevin,

        All that stuff I buy from you. And you never sent me a picture. (lol)
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  • Profile picture of the author Dave Rodman
    Banned
    I don't buy into that logic that marketers can't get annoyed at the types of emails they get. I used to do a lot of cold calling and, all in all, I think I was pretty successful at it. That didn't mean I gave Dbag telemarketers a pass when they tried to overuse sales tricks they used in Telemarketing 101 classes.

    We always have recourse in email marketing, we can just get off the list. Some marketers you actually don't mind hearing from normally. I used to like how John Reese mixed content/affiliate offers so you stay on his list. But then when he released Outsource Force you just start to get emailed like crazy. I get it...you want to sell more. But don't give me the old "I just found some more copies in the desk drawer" style marketing. Just be honest.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Anderson
    Have you considered that maybe sending a reminder email is a GOOD thing?

    Email get's deleted accidentally, maybe other you didn't see the email.

    The "tactic" of sending the "oops, wrong link" email isn't always a "tactic". I can't tell you how many times I've screwed up a link and had to send the correct one.

    You did the right thing by unsubscribing. If you're annoyed by it, you're both in a better position.
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  • Profile picture of the author Willie Crawford
    I sort of agree with that Louviere guy

    Actually, you deliver to your subscribers what you promised
    them when they joined your list, and that promise doesn't
    have to be explicit.

    If your job is to teach them to be marketers, then teach them
    by example.

    If I'm on your list, the first thing that I'm going to glance at
    when I open my email is the "From" column, and I'll open emails
    from recognized names first... names that have somehow delivered
    value to me... and that could be in the form of showing me
    great copy.

    Next I look at the subject line, which is really the place that I
    have a problem with many marketers' emails lately. I don't like
    deceptive subject lines. I love the ones that arouse curiosity
    though.

    If I open your email and feel like I've been "tricked" into
    opening it, I delete it unread, and consider unsubscribing.

    There is one subject line that will get an email deleted before
    I open it. That's the one that says "go,go , go!"

    It implies that you know that I'm sitting there watching my
    inbox anxiously awaiting the chance to buy your product
    because I need what you have so desperately. I find that
    one slightly insulting, and assume that my readers do too.
    Then again, I see it used so much that I have to question if
    I'm wrong. Is "the herd" that starved to "touch the hem of
    your garment?"

    Willie
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    • Profile picture of the author DawnMarie
      A marketer isn't wasting my time by sending me follow up / duplicate emails unless I turn it into a time waster myself.

      Marketers market. It's what we do.

      My job is to decide if I want to read it or skip it - not waste time getting upset that they're doing their job.
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by Willie Crawford View Post

      Then again, I see it used so much that I have to question if I'm wrong. Is "the herd" that starved to "touch the hem of your garment?"
      It's a scarcity tactic. You hype up the fact that there are only so many copies available and they'll sell out fast, then turn loose the horde the second the offer opens.

      As I find myself saying more and more often these days when people wonder about common email marketing ploys, Kern covers it in Mass Control.

      I used to worry about unsubscribing from email lists. I used to think - like the self-important jerk I am - "I don't want them to see I've unsubscribed and go around feeling bad about how they let me down."

      Thing is, now that I've got a reasonably-sized list and have seen more than a few unsubscribes myself... that's not what I think.

      I think "Well, there goes someone who wasn't in my target market anyway."

      Every unsubscribe I get targets my list more and more tightly to the people who like what I have to say and get value out of it. And those are, logically enough, the ones most likely to buy something. If you don't agree with me on what constitutes value, the products I promote are simply not going to be what you want.

      Which has made me a lot quicker to unsubscribe from lists myself. People grow; people change. Sometimes I've outgrown a list, and sometimes a list has outgrown me. There's no shame in leaving, and there's no shame in having someone leave.

      What saddens me is the number of people I've seen "backslide" to crap tactics. I'll join a marketer's list, and it will be AMAZING. A couple months later, it becomes a pitch fest. And a couple months after that, it becomes an endless stream of copypasta straight off a Clickbank affiliate resource page.
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      "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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  • Profile picture of the author ChickenMan
    Eh most of the time I send it to my Trash and unsubscribe if it keeps up. Though it's thanks to being on a list that I found a good course, so there's some good in being on a list.
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  • Profile picture of the author Quake
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Eric Louviere
      Are we talking about sending the exact same email over and over... or new emails pitching the same product? The exact same email over and over can certainly get annoying indeed. Maybe I jumped the gun here... I thought it was about following up by promoting the same thing more than once...
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      • Profile picture of the author terryrayburn
        Originally Posted by Eric Louviere View Post

        Are we talking about sending the exact same email over and over... or new emails pitching the same product? The exact same email over and over can certainly get annoying indeed. Maybe I jumped the gun here... I thought it was about following up by promoting the same thing more than once...
        Yes, the exact same email (with the explanation that I might have missed the first one).

        Hey, even Mother Superior jumped the gun
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  • Profile picture of the author Dave90210
    I unsubscribe to people that send out emails multiple times a week. I signed up for something on this site and the person sends out spammy sales emails daily or once every other day which drives me mad!!! I say once every 2 weeks and preferably once a month is enough for me.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lance K
    Originally Posted by terryrayburn View Post

    I received a marketing email today with the following:

    "If you were caught up in the madness over the weekend, chances are you missed the email I sent late Friday, so here it is again."

    It was from a marketer that I respect and have purchased from several times.

    But...

    ...it's just one of many typical "hit-em-again-with-a-repeat-email and maybe they'll come to their senses and buy my stuff" kinds of emails that seem to be increasing.


    <SNIP>


    I'm organized enough to see it the first time, thanks, and respond or not.


    Quick question...

    Do you believe that your level of organization is typical?
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    "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
    ~ Zig Ziglar
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    • Profile picture of the author terryrayburn
      Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

      Quick question...

      Do you believe that your level of organization is typical?
      No way of knowing. I'm far from perfect, but we are business people using email in our business. It seems a minimum practice to me to actually look at that email.

      Anyway, as I said in my post, "maybe it works". I'm just throwing out an opinion, as Puddy pointed out. And not a haphazard mindless one -- though that is just another opinion of mine
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by terryrayburn View Post

        No way of knowing. I'm far from perfect, but we are business people using email in our business. It seems a minimum practice to me to actually look at that email.

        Anyway, as I said in my post, "maybe it works". I'm just throwing out an opinion, as Puddy pointed out. And not a haphazard mindless one -- though that is just another opinion of mine
        Hi Terry - You got a fair bit of flak for your post. A lot of folks find it a little nettlesome for a marketer to complain about being marketed to on a marketing forum. I like the way you handled the flak. Not that you need it, but I just thought a little pat on the back might not be a bad idea considering...
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        Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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  • Profile picture of the author JimmySuccess
    I feel the same way when I get those messages. First thing I do is check
    to see who it is emailing me, and if I don't know you and
    am not currently doing business with you, yep you guest it "unsubscribe".
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi Thomas,

      I thought at one time you signed up for lists to study how they were marketing.
      I would answer that that was probably one of many reasons, initially. I suppose the main reason was to find those who imparted good information and to learn from them more than to study their actual marketing (aimed at the reader) within the emails.

      In retrospect, there were only a tiny handful who were worth the attention and with nearly all of them, it was almost entirely second-hand information. I find that buying targetted physical books is much more productive, less likely to lead to disappointment and of course, there's a lot less sales-pitch mixed with/disguised as helpful stuff. The reader is the one who makes the decision regarding at what time they choose to be confronted with the information. With email, even with self-control, it tends to be the sender that has more control of this, as the receiver may need to check their inbox for other reasons and be confronted with the pitch.

      Also, reading books is a pleasant, healthy, beneficial way to spend time whereas I find it more productive to keep my inbox strictly for two-way communication and notifications/updates (although the updates aspect is seemingly abused by everyone in their desperation to make a sale) rather than for educational purposes invariably intertwined with sales pitches.

      Regarding your own use of the lists, I do think that there's an important distinction between those who sell software and those who sell information - I think that the things I have mentioned are much less problematic to the individual receiver of email if they sell software.

      Good to see you too Thomas and festive greetings back at ya.
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      Roger Davis

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    • Profile picture of the author Lance K
      Originally Posted by JimmySuccess View Post

      I feel the same way when I get those messages. First thing I do is check
      to see who it is emailing me, and if I don't know you and
      am not currently doing business with you, yep you guest it "unsubscribe".

      From the OP...

      Originally Posted by terryrayburn View Post

      I received a marketing email today with the following:

      "If you were caught up in the madness over the weekend, chances are you missed the email I sent late Friday, so here it is again."

      It was from a marketer that I respect and have purchased from several times.
      Signature
      "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
      ~ Zig Ziglar
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  • Profile picture of the author nelaffiliate
    I unsubscribe when I receive too many mails within a short period. Two mails in one week is just too much for me especially when the content doesn't offer me anything reasonable.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Maybe it's just me, but I find that follow up designed to help me reach the decision the marketer wants me to make doesn't bother me. Follow up that adds new information to the process - new benefits, both positive and negative real case studies, how-to-use, etc.

      I can overlook an occasional 'oops' email, too.

      But sending the same thing over and over (just in case I missed it rather than ignoring it), or, as Willie pointed out, the infamous "go, go, go" email - anything that smacks of desperation or entitlement - rubs me the wrong way.

      Like the Dukes in the clip I posted earlier, some marketers sound like it's their right to pick my pocket and I have no business saying no to them. If I do, they turn into that annoying kid in the grocery store chanting "mom, mom, mom, mom..." until they get what they want.
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
    on a percentage scale the follow up reminder makes more sales than the first promotion email. sometime double making the first follow up obligatory

    The 2nd reminder (3rd in the follow up series) will on average add another 10% to the number of overall sales... A 10% increase in sales is not to be sneezed at

    After that its the law of diminishing returns a 4th email can invariably make no sales at all.

    Note: these figures are my observations over 10 years of doing this, and they are an average not neccassarily an absolute
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    • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
      Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

      on a percentage scale the follow up reminder makes more sales than the first promotion email. sometime double making the first follow up obligatory

      The 2nd reminder (3rd in the follow up series) will on average add another 10% to the number of overall sales... A 10% increase in sales is not to be sneezed at

      After that its the law of diminishing returns a 4th email can invariably make no sales at all.

      Note: these figures are my observations over 10 years of doing this, and they are an average not neccassarily an absolute
      Robert,

      Wouldn't this depend a lot on how time sensitive the offer is?


      Martin
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    • Profile picture of the author profitsforall
      Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

      on a percentage scale the follow up reminder makes more sales than the first promotion email. sometime double making the first follow up obligatory

      The 2nd reminder (3rd in the follow up series) will on average add another 10% to the number of overall sales... A 10% increase in sales is not to be sneezed at

      After that its the law of diminishing returns a 4th email can invariably make no sales at all.

      Note: these figures are my observations over 10 years of doing this, and they are an average not neccassarily an absolute
      Do you see any unsubscribe spikes on reminders?
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      • Profile picture of the author ExRat
        Hi Lance,

        Let's take the "Internet Marketing" stigma out of the equation. Let's pretend the email was from the local oil change shop that services the OP's car.

        If you were the shop owner, would you worry about the few super organized people who might be offended by a reminder or 2nd notice type of email about a special promotion? Or would you think more about those who would find great value in a 50% off special (or whatever it is) in today's (or any) economy and may have missed the first message?
        I'm not sure if I'm missing something?

        I'm not complaining about the content of emails, therefore I'm not suggesting that marketers shouldn't send them, or that they're not profitable for them.

        I was making an entirely different point.

        Even with the oil change shop analogy, I would still make the same point - if the emails are bothering someone, they should ask themselves if they really need to be receiving them and what the downside would be if they unsubscribed from ALL oil change shop mailing lists.
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        Roger Davis

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        • Profile picture of the author Lance K
          Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

          Hi Lance,



          I'm not sure if I'm missing something?

          I'm not complaining about the content of emails, therefore I'm not suggesting that marketers shouldn't send them, or that they're not profitable for them.

          I was making an entirely different point.

          Even with the oil change shop analogy, I would still make the same point - if the emails are bothering someone, they should ask themselves if they really need to be receiving them and what the downside would be if they unsubscribed from ALL oil change shop mailing lists.
          Roger,

          Sorry it took me so long to respond. Anyway, after rereading your earlier comments, I think I interpreted them incorrectly. My apologies.

          As for the oil change shop...my example was meant to illustrate a relationship where you liked & trusted the shop that you do business with. And therefore, you're probably not on a bunch of oil change lists.

          Regardless, since you weren't arguing against the validity of follow up, it's kinda a moot point. Reading comprehension isn't always my strong suit. In too much of a hurry at times, I suppose.
          Signature
          "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
          ~ Zig Ziglar
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      • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
        Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

        on a percentage scale the follow up reminder makes more sales than the first promotion email. sometime double making the first follow up obligatory

        The 2nd reminder (3rd in the follow up series) will on average add another 10% to the number of overall sales... A 10% increase in sales is not to be sneezed at

        After that its the law of diminishing returns a 4th email can invariably make no sales at all.

        Note: these figures are my observations over 10 years of doing this, and they are an average not neccassarily an absolute
        Originally Posted by profitsforall View Post

        Do you see any unsubscribe spikes on reminders?
        No unsubscribes stay constant doesnt matter what you send in an email

        you will get unsubscribes every time you send an email no matter what the content, measure sales not unsubs

        if you send a follow up and you make 10 more sales, but get 20 unsubs

        Which would you rather do... keep the sales, or get the unsubs back?
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  • Profile picture of the author AndrewMurray
    I got an email with
    URGENT this is life/death
    from a marketing promoting the elevation group.
    Made me sick.
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    ============================
    Need a real "You Inc." business?
    Want to know how to REALLY make six figures in Direct Sales?
    http://www.andrewmurrayhq.com

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  • Profile picture of the author DavidSimpson
    When I first started in IM I used to subscribe to a lot of lists and I took A LOT of time to read most of them, and then go off to the link and watch the video or read the sales page. Always looking for that ONE thing that was going to work, b/c I thought I was going to miss something.

    As soon as I unsubscribed from most of them and stopped taking time to view them, my actual production went way up.

    Now I only follow a few select people and have a seperate e-mail account for all of the rest.......which I only skim through every so often.

    I now use a value filter when deciding if I should unsubscribe or not.
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