Economy is improving?

13 years ago

i think its a positive sign. the market of US affects lots of developing countries. so its a good sign for them too.

Merry Christmas

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myob

13 years ago

There were numerous sectors and niches that actually were unaffected by the economy, including IM.

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fasteasysuccess 13 years ago

I wouldn't take what the news says seriously all the time. It's not people aren't buying things right now, but scared-hesitant-and choose to buy things that they feel has more to offer them.

As entrepreneurs and business owners...it just shows providing value and the best possible solution is the key in any economy and people can still prosper.

A quick fact I pulledhoenix Marketing International’s Affluent Market Practice, the number of American households with investible assets of $1 million or more rose 8% in the 12 months ended in June.

That means when everyone else saying can't make money...no ones buying...all the other bs...8% of people went out and made millions. Plus tons more that made six figures last year when the economy was "tanking"

Basically as a product or service marketer...

By proving better value, better services, and a better experience for your clients or customers, you create your own profitable economy while everyone else complains...you count the benjamins.
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tpw

13 years ago

The economy is improving for my business. I cannot attest to anything outside my own little world.

p.s. Myob: My IM business was hurt by a combination of the economy and me having to take time from my business to care for my dad when he was sick. I felt the hurt of the economy before my dad got sick, so I am not sure how much of my hurt in 2009 and into 2010 was driven my me or the economy.

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sierraandmo

13 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

The economy is improving for my business. I cannot attest to anything outside my own little world.

p.s. Myob: My IM business was hurt by a combination of the economy and me having to take time from my business to care for my dad when he was sick. I felt the hurt of the economy before my dad got sick, so I am not sure how much of my hurt in 2009 and into 2010 was driven my me or the economy.

Sorry to hear about your dad . . . I hope he is better now.

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Dan C. Rinnert

13 years ago

You can't trust the news media. You often have to take what they say with a grain of salt.

I remember one time period where the news media was saying how awful the economy was and things were getting worse. Then, four years later, the same news media talked about how the economy had been "surging" for the past six years.

A better measure, perhaps, is to pay attention to your own situation and what others are saying.

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deertrail

13 years ago

That's right. At the end of the day, their job is to entertain, not inform.

-Bryan

Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert

You can't trust the news media. You often have to take what they say with a grain of salt.

I remember one time period where the news media was saying how awful the economy was and things were getting worse. Then, four years later, the same news media talked about how the economy had been "surging" for the past six years.

A better measure, perhaps, is to pay attention to your own situation and what others are saying.

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sierraandmo

13 years ago

There is job growth in some areas, but not all. The construction business in Colorado was hit pretty hard, and they are still struggling to come back from that and we still have lots of businesses closing up shop. Overall though things seems as if things are starting to turn around.

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CDarklock

13 years ago

Originally Posted by hardik jogi

So overall the situation is improving.

The situation was caused by corporate greed and shortsightedness. The economy itself was never in trouble; some companies were in trouble because they didn't anticipate the little storm of recent events that decreased their profit margins.

And as I always remind people, the business owner never takes the hit. He passes it on to his employees and customers to keep his own income the same, because he can do that.

When businesses are in trouble, they pass the losses on to you!

And in the end, there's nothing you can do about it, if you're still in the employee mindset and rely on someone else to pay your salary.

Some of us were pushed into this industry out of desperation. Others just woke the hell up. Which one are you?

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Dave Rodman

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

The situation was caused by corporate greed and shortsightedness. The economy itself was never in trouble; some companies were in trouble because they didn't anticipate the little storm of recent events that decreased their profit margins.

And as I always remind people, the business owner never takes the hit. He passes it on to his employees and customers to keep his own income the same, because he can do that.

When businesses are in trouble, they pass the losses on to you!

And in the end, there's nothing you can do about it, if you're still in the employee mindset and rely on someone else to pay your salary.

Some of us were pushed into this industry out of desperation. Others just woke the hell up. Which one are you?

I think there are a number of things that are incorrect in your statement:

-You don't think the economy was in trouble? Just because they weren't directly involved in subprime mortgages, doesn't mean they don't feel the ripple effects of a bad economy. That's like saying that a downturn isn't real if you're not an online business in 2000 or an airline in 2002.

-I spent close to 8 years lending money to small-mid sized businesses. And I can assure you, that business owners MOST DEFINITELY take a hit when profits start to shrink. Sure, they layoff employees, but they themselves mostly take the biggest % hit in terms of paycheck and profits. Public companies that is true (in terms of executive pay), but not in smaller companies.

-A business owner can trim expenses to maintain profits. But an employee can do the same with their expenses. There's no difference. The difference between a business owner and an employee is the business owner has unlimited upside on top line growth.

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CDarklock

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Rodman

-You don't think the economy was in trouble?

Not until companies started laying off workers by the hundreds in a desperate effort to make up the shortfall on their real estate holdings when they couldn't get credit as easily as they could before.

Public companies that is true (in terms of executive pay), but not in smaller companies.

I believe I already said the word "corporate," which implies a public company.

-A business owner can trim expenses to maintain profits. But an employee can do the same with their expenses.

But when the business owner cuts compensation and benefits, the employee doesn't have a choice.

Your employer doesn't give a damn about you. It's all about his bottom line, because that's his family. Your family is just some insufferable person you live with and some snot-nosed brats that can't behave themselves. If they lose a little weight and can't sit on their arse watching television and playing video games all day, maybe it will be good for them.

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Dave Rodman

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Not until companies started laying off workers by the hundreds in a desperate effort to make up the shortfall on their real estate holdings when they couldn't get credit as easily as they could before.

Why do you think they laid off workers? Companies with adequate balance sheets could've kept employing workers. They trimmed them because of a lack of demand...that's been noted by most economists.

I believe I already said the word "corporate," which implies a public company.

You said "And as I always remind people, the business owner never takes the hit. He passes it on to his employees and customers to keep his own income the same, because he can do that". Which implies a business owner cutting salaries to keep his own salary the same. Public company owners don't have a say in what employee salaries are. If that's what you meant, then fine, but that's not what you said.

But when the business owner cuts compensation and benefits, the employee doesn't have a choice.

Yes, they can cut expenses...just like you, the business owner, is doing. Managing expenses is not unique to a business or an individual. What's unique to a business is the ability to use leverage to grow revenue faster than a employee who works for a set wage.

Your employer doesn't give a damn about you. It's all about his bottom line, because that's his family. Your family is just some insufferable person you live with and some snot-nosed brats that can't behave themselves. If they lose a little weight and can't sit on their arse watching television and playing video games all day, maybe it will be good for them.

You keep going back and forth between a business owner and a corporation? Which are you talking about?

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CDarklock

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Rodman

Why do you think they laid off workers?

Why do I think who laid off workers? Everybody? As if there was one and only one reason the whole time, and nothing changed or evolved at all?

You said "And as I always remind people, the business owner never takes the hit. He passes it on to his employees and customers to keep his own income the same, because he can do that".

Yep. I've been saying that for years. I kind of have to keep saying exactly the same thing.

If I change it, some jerk is just going to jump up and complain that it's not what I said last time at all because now I've changed my position so it only applies to big companies which means I'm a lying sack of crap who can't hold a consistent position.

In much the same way you've jumped up and complained that this more general statement isn't as limited as the earlier statement, so it's inconsistent. It's not inconsistent. You just don't care what I'm actually saying. All you want to do is argue.

Which implies a business owner cutting salaries to keep his own salary the same.

Yes, but that's not what caused the downturn. The sheer scale of the corporate activity caused the downturn. But as that downturn worsened, small business owners did the same thing. The underlying problem is universal, but only a subset of that problem was responsible for the downturn.

Yes, they can cut expenses...just like you, the business owner, is doing. Managing expenses is not unique to a business or an individual.

Human beings are not expenses, and individuals don't have them to "manage" anyway. You can't just throw some of your children out of the house because they're too expensive to feed and clothe. You have to identify a place where they will be properly fed and clothed FIRST. You can send your children to live with Aunt Flo, but you can't just kick them out and tell them to find somewhere else to live.

You keep going back and forth between a business owner and a corporation? Which are you talking about?

I'm talking about both of them. They both treat human beings like cattle. One of them caused a major economic crisis, and the other responded with similar inhumanity and callous disregard for others. In either case, treating human beings like cattle is wrong.

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Dave Rodman

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Why do I think who laid off workers? Everybody? As if there was one and only one reason the whole time, and nothing changed or evolved at all?

You said a shortfall on R/E holdings led to layoffs. Layoffs were due to lack of demand and shrinking revenue, not a lack of credit.

Yep. I've been saying that for years. I kind of have to keep saying exactly the same thing.

If I change it, some jerk is just going to jump up and complain that it's not what I said last time at all because now I've changed my position so it only applies to big companies which means I'm a lying sack of crap who can't hold a consistent position.

In much the same way you've jumped up and complained that this more general statement isn't as limited as the earlier statement, so it's inconsistent. It's not inconsistent. You just don't care what I'm actually saying. All you want to do is argue.

It is inconsistent. You said you were referring to public corporations, then you said that the "owners" only care about preserving their profits. "Owners" in a public corporation are stockholders who don't cut pay. So if you're not talking about shareholders, then you're talking about private business owners. And if you're saying they make the same amount of money, no matter the downturn, by cutting employee costs...I'm saying YOU'RE WRONG and you haven't been around many businesses.

Yes, but that's not what caused the downturn. The sheer scale of the corporate activity caused the downturn. But as that downturn worsened, small business owners did the same thing. The underlying problem is universal, but only a subset of that problem was responsible for the downturn.

Human beings are not expenses, and individuals don't have them to "manage" anyway. You can't just throw some of your children out of the house because they're too expensive to feed and clothe. You have to identify a place where they will be properly fed and clothed FIRST. You can send your children to live with Aunt Flo, but you can't just kick them out and tell them to find somewhere else to live.

To a business, employees are expenses. And to most buinesses, they are the largest expense. Do you get down on yourself because you can't hire an outsourced worker because the demand isn't high enough? I don't. Because the goal of the business is to maximize profits. Not to employ people when there is no business sense to keep them employed.

I'm talking about both of them. They both treat human beings like cattle. One of them caused a major economic crisis, and the other responded with similar inhumanity and callous disregard for others. In either case, treating human beings like cattle is wrong.

That's your view of corporations. Being an employee is a 2-way street. People get benefits/pay for the work they perform. And either party can terminate that relationship anytime they want. More people have left their employer more times than they have been fired..

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jan roos

13 years ago

As long as the feds keep printng money and getting into more and more debt this economy won't last much longer in my opinion.

The national debt is something like 14 trillion and it is IMPOSSIBLE to pay that back. The federal reserve bank is owned not by the U.S government or it's citizens but rather a small group of wealthy families and they have been controlling the economy for years.

Most states are in the red and on the verge of bankruptcy. The government can't bail them out because the gov doesn't have any more money either. The Euro is failing, Greece, Ireland, Portugal all on the verge of bankruptcy and will need another bailout soon. California is the world's 4th largest economy and it's bankrupt.

All of this is one huge debt bubble that is about to burst in my opinion. Most of the debt is being owed to China so I don't know how they feel about the situation that we won't be able to pay them back.

I am no economist or anything but it really doesn't take one to see that something is seriously wrong not just in this country but in the western world in general. One world order? Maybe, I don't know.

With regards to the media. It is their job to tell the people everything is hunky dory to avoid histeria and uprising so I wouldn't trust them at all. I suggest everyone should read up on their own and then decide for yourself what you think is going on but pls don't just blindly trust what you see on TV especially coming from politicians.

As for me personally, the economy has never been better. I have no debt, making more money than I ever have and life is GREAT!

Cheers,

Jan

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cevin

13 years ago

Hi,
Many econimical analytics & statistcal analytics have other opinion. The poor countries all around the world, gradually they get poorer and poorer. Rich countries, start investing on poor countries. In the next years this poor countries will bankrope! They will become so poor, that they will stop buying and using the investments of the rich countries. At that point the rich countries will start falling like a domino.

You may find all this occurd, but it's the truth behind the media. They cant tell the world that global economic will downfall. If the do - the downfall will be faster. So they try to find a way to solve this. Before many years the solution would be a World War. But now a days, people don't want to go in war with nobody! Civilization has improved. (I hope)

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socomplete

13 years ago

I have only 1 website that will show you how bad things are and how bad they will become and that is this one:

www.usdebtclock.org

We are facing the largest debt bubble the world has ever seen and when it pops we all have to be ready. This is however, the greatest opportunity to be well informed enough to prosper in what many call the greatest depression.

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dvduval

13 years ago

Originally Posted by socomplete

I have only 1 website that will show you how bad things are and how bad they will become and that is this one:

www.usdebtclock.org

We are facing the largest debt bubble the world has ever seen and when it pops we all have to be ready. This is however, the greatest opportunity to be well informed enough to prosper in what many call the greatest depression.

Very interesting how we can cut taxes on the most wealthy while spending decades making more and more loopholes so they pay even less than the actual brackets in many cases, and then we don't have any money:

http://dshort.com/charts/tax-bracket...deral-debt.gif

It is a FACT that as we have cut taxes on the wealthy that we have passed on debt to generations to come.

The wealthy don't need the services the government provides. They have enough money to hire people to do almost anything the government provides. Of course they want to downsize the government.

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akazo

13 years ago

Originally Posted by dvduval

Very interesting how we can cut taxes on the most wealthy while spending decades making more and more loopholes so they pay even less than the actual brackets in many cases, and then we don't have any money:

http://dshort.com/charts/tax-bracket...deral-debt.gif

It is a FACT that as we have cut taxes on the wealthy that we have passed on debt to generations to come.

The wealthy don't need the services the government provides. They have enough money to hire people to do almost anything the government provides. Of course they want to downsize the government.

Maybe it is a correlation not a causation. Maybe if we would just cut government a bit, we wouldn't have a problem. We don't have a "tax" problem, we have a "spending" problem.

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dvduval

13 years ago

Originally Posted by akazo

Maybe it is a correlation not a causation. Maybe if we would just cut government a bit, we wouldn't have a problem. We don't have a "tax" problem, we have a "spending" problem.

Right, the wealthy are holding their money and not "spending" it. You are exactly right. We should put that money to use. We've cut taxes to the bone, and the wealthy still aren't spending, so we definitely didn't solve the problem by lowering their taxes.

And the middle class have a "spending" problem because almost 20% are unemployed or under employed, so they have a problem spending what they have left, if anything.

There is definitely a "causation" that is easily observed. The rich hold more money, and aren't spending it, and then are wanting to cut important services to people who have nowhere to turn.

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CDarklock

13 years ago

Originally Posted by dvduval

There is definitely a "causation" that is easily observed. The rich hold more money, and aren't spending it, and then are wanting to cut important services to people who have nowhere to turn.

The problem most wealthy people rail against isn't that the services shouldn't be provided, but that we provide too much service.

Over here, you have someone who makes $500 a week, and he's not eligible for benefits. He has $2,000 a month.

Over there, you have someone who makes $400 a week, and he's eligible for $1,800 a month in benefits. That's almost $3,500 a month.

Meanwhile, over here, you have someone who makes nothing at all. He's eligible for $2,600 a month in benefits.

It does not take the first guy long to figure out that if he gets fired, he'll make more money. But he can't do that forever; he needs to get a job. So he does, but makes sure he only makes $400 a week so he can get the benefits that take him up to $3,500 a month. When he gets tired of his job, he screws up till they fire him, and drops back down to $2,600 a month. So he works less, averages a little over $3,000 a month, and has effectively given himself a 50% raise by being a crappier employee.

Now, what most industrious and honest people believe should be done is that we should say "Everyone out to make $X a month." And if you make less than that, the government pays bills for you - utilities, rent, groceries, that sort of thing. But nobody makes more money by doing a worse job.

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CDarklock

13 years ago

Originally Posted by dvduval

Very interesting how we can cut taxes on the most wealthy while spending decades making more and more loopholes so they pay even less than the actual brackets in many cases, and then we don't have any money

Even more interesting how some people understand that the very wealthy can afford to take up residence in Nevada to avoid their state taxes, but not that they can move to another country to avoid their federal ones.

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akazo

13 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Even more interesting how some people understand that the very wealthy can afford to take up residence in Nevada to avoid their state taxes, but not that they can move to another country to avoid their federal ones.

Not true for individuals, only corporations. Unless you give up citizenship, you are taxed.

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CDarklock 13 years ago

Originally Posted by akazo

Not true for individuals, only corporations. Unless you give up citizenship, you are taxed.

I fail to see the problem here.
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dvduval 13 years ago

Originally Posted by akazo

Not true for individuals, only corporations. Unless you give up citizenship, you are taxed.

You can have dual citizenship in two countries, and pay taxes in just one.
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CDarklock

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Rodman

You said a shortfall on R/E holdings led to layoffs. Layoffs were due to lack of demand and shrinking revenue, not a lack of credit.

It's a complex cause scenario. Because the LTV on certain properties rose, banks called in loans secured by those properties. That expense was passed on to tenants, largely businesses because residential tenant increases are capped. Businesses paying higher rental rates faced reduced revenue due to a rise in fixed costs. When they sought loans of their own, it was more difficult to acquire them. When they sought additional investors, it was difficult to find them because the investors were also having trouble getting loans. This left them with fewer options, so they laid off employees and reduced both wages and hours.

It is inconsistent. You said you were referring to public corporations, then you said that the "owners" only care about preserving their profits. "Owners" in a public corporation are stockholders who don't cut pay.

But the corporate management making the decisions within the business are acting as proxies for the shareholders. While the shareholders are not responsible for those decisions, nor are they held accountable, the decisions are still made on their behalf.

And if you're saying they make the same amount of money, no matter the downturn

I'm not. I'm saying the single most flexible expense of a company is its employees. The ability of a company to cut wages, hours, and staff without immediate detriment to its business exceeds its ability to reduce any other expense.

To a business, employees are expenses.

To a human being, employees are other human beings.

A small business may be a human being or collection of human beings.

A corporation is not. It exists independently of human beings. It has no morality or conscience, and will face no crisis of either when behaving inhumanely.

Do you get down on yourself because you can't hire an outsourced worker because the demand isn't high enough?

No. But when a client cancelled his contract without paying his final invoice, I went over $70,000 in personal debt paying the people I employed to do the work.

I could easily have declared bankruptcy and made them file a claim against the company's assets, and I probably wouldn't have had to pay them - after all, while the courts could seize money and assets I already had to pay my debts, they could not compel me to obtain additional loans.

But that would have been morally wrong to do.

That's your view of corporations.

See that client I mentioned up there who cancelled his contract without paying his final invoice?

That was a corporation.

Do you know why he cancelled the contract?

Because I had six people in his office doing the work of three people. So they weren't making enough money, and I was in negotiations with another client for three of those people to go work there instead. Because I wanted my people employed full-time.

The client, however, didn't believe it was in his best interest to lose three people who had such detailed knowledge of his proprietary technology. So he tried to hire all six of my contractors, at significantly less than they were already being paid. And they told me about it.

So I went to his office and explained that he was violating our contract, identifying the exact clause he had violated, and he pointed to the one that said he could terminate the contract at any time.

Then he demanded that I order my employees to accept his employment offer, or he would terminate the contract. Which I had no legal right or authority to do. So he terminated it.

This is just one of a great many stories I could tell you about the wonderful world of corporate business, where people are numbers and numbers can be forced wherever you want them for any reason at all.

And you said it yourself: the job of the business is to make a profit. Taking care of your people isn't your job.

But if you are a human being, it ought to be your responsibility all the same. And when you forget that, you cease to be a human being.

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Dave Rodman

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

It's a complex cause scenario. Because the LTV on certain properties rose, banks called in loans secured by those properties. That expense was passed on to tenants, largely businesses because residential tenant increases are capped. Businesses paying higher rental rates faced reduced revenue due to a rise in fixed costs. When they sought loans of their own, it was more difficult to acquire them. When they sought additional investors, it was difficult to find them because the investors were also having trouble getting loans. This left them with fewer options, so they laid off employees and reduced both wages and hours.

I used to work at a bank and I can tell you from experience, NOBODY calls loans because of LTV. It only comes into play when a loan is getting evaluated. After that, cash flow is king. What you describe would never happen in the real world. The recession started in Dec 2007, which meant things were going downhill before the bank crisis...it was just made a whole lot worse by it.

But the corporate management making the decisions within the business are acting as proxies for the shareholders. While the shareholders are not responsible for those decisions, nor are they held accountable, the decisions are still made on their behalf.

Well without investors, you don't have a company. So you either keep shareholders happy, or you die.

A corporation is not. It exists independently of human beings. It has no morality or conscience, and will face no crisis of either when behaving inhumanely.

Everything has a consequence. Treat customers badly, screw customers over, and you will go out of business eventually.

No. But when a client cancelled his contract without paying his final invoice, I went over $70,000 in personal debt paying the people I employed to do the work.

I could easily have declared bankruptcy and made them file a claim against the company's assets, and I probably wouldn't have had to pay them - after all, while the courts could seize money and assets I already had to pay my debts, they could not compel me to obtain additional loans.

But that would have been morally wrong to do.

Well, the decision to take on that kind of risk was your decision. Like I said, I used to lend to small/medium sized businesses, and I can tell you that is a large amount of unsecured debt to have for a small business. That's not really what I'm talking about. That's not a downturn with a lack of demand...that's a bad business decision by the owner.

See that client I mentioned up there who cancelled his contract without paying his final invoice?

That was a corporation.

Do you know why he cancelled the contract?

Because I had six people in his office doing the work of three people. So they weren't making enough money, and I was in negotiations with another client for three of those people to go work there instead. Because I wanted my people employed full-time.

The client, however, didn't believe it was in his best interest to lose three people who had such detailed knowledge of his proprietary technology. So he tried to hire all six of my contractors, at significantly less than they were already being paid. And they told me about it.

So I went to his office and explained that he was violating our contract, identifying the exact clause he had violated, and he pointed to the one that said he could terminate the contract at any time.

Then he demanded that I order my employees to accept his employment offer, or he would terminate the contract. Which I had no legal right or authority to do. So he terminated it.

This is just one of a great many stories I could tell you about the wonderful world of corporate business, where people are numbers and numbers can be forced wherever you want them for any reason at all.

And you said it yourself: the job of the business is to make a profit. Taking care of your people isn't your job.

But if you are a human being, it ought to be your responsibility all the same. And when you forget that, you cease to be a human being.

Actually, that sounds to me like you tried to play hardball with him and he knew the contract (that you signed) better than you did. Hiring people away from a company happens all the time. ALL THE TIME. But anyways, it's not some evil corporation that made that decision...it was a human being.

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gekko2.0

13 years ago

This is great news if its true, it seems like every month it changes hopefully the upswing in the economy lasts I have quite a few friends that are out of work

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tpw 13 years ago

Originally Posted by gekko2.0

This is great news if its true, it seems like every month it changes hopefully the upswing in the economy lasts I have quite a few friends that are out of work

For those who endure the employee mindset:

* my brother has been out of work for two years.

* my brother in law has been out of work for six months.

* my best friend has been out of work for three years.

But they are employees. They will always be employees, because they are only willing to do what I advise them to do, if I do it for them.

You can either wait for someone else to fix your finances, or you can take steps to fix it yourself.

What is your mindset?
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- CDarklock 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by tpw
  
  For those who endure the employee mindset:
  
  * my brother has been out of work for two years.
  
  I've also been out of work for almost two years.
  
  The difference is, even with switching industries and not really knowing what I'm doing and screwing up all over the place PLUS a major personal crisis from which I am only just recovering... I still made over $50k during those two years.
  
  Which still leaves me just over $87k in debt, but my bills get paid (usually on time!) and I can afford groceries. It's an adjustment, and it's a struggle, and some months are a lot better than others (September: $1k, October: $800, November: $50 - not a typo, December: $2k), but it's better than whinging about needing a job.
  
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jrichy88

13 years ago

The economy here in the UK is in no way growing. There are some big cuts coming up in 2011 that the government are making. I don't blame them, we are in so much debt as a nation that my grandchildren's grandchildren will still be paying it back.

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JD Nunes

13 years ago

No, the economy is going to tank BADLY, sooner than you think. Watch this video from an expert: Stansberry's Investment Advisory

I got that link from a banner I found on a site, so it's probably someone else's affiliate link. Anyway, it's one of the most informative videos you'll ever see.

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Ron Douglas

13 years ago

The US economy is juiced up on a gazillion trillion dollars of govt steroids and still can only do a projected 3.5% growth at best with unemployment above 9%.

Eventually the chickens are going to come home to roost. But until then, consider this the new norm and just go with what's working for your business.

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dvduval

13 years ago

In these debates I wish we could separate the SUPER RICH from "business owners". There is a big difference there, but so often politicians confuse this.

Fact: The difference between rich and poor is like the 1920's right now. The middle class were in a rut for 10+ years, while the super rich got wealthier.

Having a thriving middle class is a key to the success of the country, and we are failing. A big part of that is the wealthy have special concessions that everyone else doesn't have and they are able to keep all that wealth in the family for generations.

Just to give an example:
If you have enough money, it is each to buy a house in Nevada and claim that you live there at least 6 months, and pay ZERO state taxes. Most people can't do that, but if you can afford to have a houses in different states, it is pretty easy.

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donhx 13 years ago

I see an improvement. It is still shaky however. One big natural disaster, one big terrorist event, gas hitting $5/gallon or financial issues in other countries could bring it all down. Also, several US states are bankrupt or approaching it...that will accelerate a renewed meltdown too.

This is a good to time to make money so you can save as much as possible.
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CDarklock 13 years ago

Originally Posted by dvduval

In these debates I wish we could separate the SUPER RICH from "business owners".

Trouble is, we do not have a reliable set of rules for medium business owners, which is really where most small businesses are.

We have a pretty good model for the mom-and-pop store, where everyone working there is a friend or family member of the owner, who cares about each and every one of them and will never mistreat his friends and family.

We have a pretty good model... such as it is... for the massive corporation, where people are "human resources" and there is no direct accountability of any human being for any decision because it's all done by committee.

We do not have any good model for what goes between those. Nobody knows what to do, really, but they know they've outgrown the mom-and-pop store... so they try to act like the massive corporation.

Having a thriving middle class is a key to the success of the country, and we are failing.

This is largely because people don't understand what a "middle class" is.

Over here, there are poor people.

Over here, there are rich people.

And everything in between, neither poor nor rich, is the middle class.

If our middle class is doing very badly, it is because we have failed to adjust our definition of "poor."

If our middle class is doing phenomenally well, it is because we have failed to adjust our definition of "rich."

Basically, we have a struggling middle class because we have failed to accept that many of what we call our middle class are not, in fact, middle class. They are poor.

We have not adjusted this definition because the bottom end of the middle class don't want to become poor. If we change the definition, then overnight people who are currently proud members of the middle class will suddenly become poor. And they will be angry about it.

Income inequality is another dumb complaint. Income inequality is the difference between the bottom of the scale, and the top of the scale.

The top of the scale keeps going up, because the richest people can't possibly spend all the profit they make every day.

The bottom of the scale is zero. It's always zero. Nothing will ever change it from being zero.

So the difference between the bottom and the top of the scale is perpetually growing, and there is no way to stop it.

If you have enough money, it is each to buy a house in Nevada and claim that you live there at least 6 months, and pay ZERO state taxes.

Or, on the other hand, you could just move to Nevada and flat-out live there. It's not easy or cheap, but it's certainly not limited to the super-rich.
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Dave Rodman

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by dvduval

In these debates I wish we could separate the SUPER RICH from "business owners". There is a big difference there, but so often politicians confuse this.

Fact: The difference between rich and poor is like the 1920's right now. The middle class were in a rut for 10+ years, while the super rich got wealthier.

Having a thriving middle class is a key to the success of the country, and we are failing. A big part of that is the wealthy have special concessions that everyone else doesn't have and they are able to keep all that wealth in the family for generations.

Just to give an example:
If you have enough money, it is each to buy a house in Nevada and claim that you live there at least 6 months, and pay ZERO state taxes. Most people can't do that, but if you can afford to have a houses in different states, it is pretty easy.

Why wouldn't the rich get richer? If you start with $1M in the bank versus $1K, even if you both earn 5%, the rich guy will have SUBSTANTIALLY larger gains because he was earning interest off a larger sum.

If some employee thinks they are worth more to their employer than they get paid, then they should have value somewhere else. If they can't get a job, then maybe they aren't worth that much?

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dvduval

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Rodman

Why wouldn't the rich get richer? If you start with $1M in the bank versus $1K, even if you both earn 5%, the rich guy will have SUBSTANTIALLY larger gains because he was earning interest off a larger sum.

If some employee thinks they are worth more to their employer than they get paid, then they should have value somewhere else. If they can't get a job, then maybe they aren't worth that much?

You reach a point where rising inequality feeds on itself. Your question would be similar to "Why shouldn't we allow monopolies?" or "Why should CEO's get bonuses as they downsize the company?"

In your example, the rich guy pays less taxes that the poor guy because capital gains are taxed less, not to mention other loopholes like the one I gave above.

It's not wrong to reward success, but part of making success possible is making sure the middle class is not shrinking.

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CDarklock 13 years ago

Originally Posted by dvduval

You reach a point where rising inequality feeds on itself. Your question would be similar to "Why shouldn't we allow monopolies?"

We do. What we don't allow is abuse of monopoly power. There is a very large difference between these two things. If you don't allow a monopoly to exist, you end up in a very strange situation where a company can have a brand new invention which would revolutionise the world... but can't release it until they have a competitor.

Who, in turn, can't release without a competitor either. So nobody can be first to release the product, and all the companies have to get together and conspire not to ruin one another's business during the initial release. Which is called conspiracy, collusion, price-fixing, and antitrust.

All of which are considered greater evils than the mere existence of a monopoly.

In your example, the rich guy pays less taxes that the poor guy because capital gains are taxed less

Actually, in his example, the interest income of both parties will be taxed as capital gains.

It's not wrong to reward success, but part of making success possible is making sure the middle class is not shrinking.

And that's why we call people "middle class" when they're really "poor" - so the middle class won't shrink. But another thing we don't stop to think about is that a lot of "rich" people are really just middle class; while we talk a lot about the dream of a six-figure salary, the average household income in the United States is getting pretty close to it. It's not going to be that long before $200k and $300k aren't even close to being "rich" anymore.
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- mblount 13 years ago
  
  When is the last time you got a Job from a poor man. The bashing of rich Companies that employee thousands of people absolutely amazes me. I guess Bill Gates out to quit donating the millions that he and quite a few others do every year. I used to own a business and it is very difficult with the stupid Government regulations that are required. Let's give it to the Gov't and let them figure out how to spend it wisely. What an absolute joke.
  
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Dave Rodman

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by dvduval

You reach a point where rising inequality feeds on itself. Your question would be similar to "Why shouldn't we allow monopolies?" or "Why should CEO's get bonuses as they downsize the company?"

In your example, the rich guy pays less taxes that the poor guy because capital gains are taxed less, not to mention other loopholes like the one I gave above.

It's not wrong to reward success, but part of making success possible is making sure the middle class is not shrinking.

First off, I would be for a flat tax on all personal income. Corporate taxes and capital gains should not be taxed...just taxed when distributed to shareholders.

Second, I don't know why people get so hung up on %. Do rich people pay more in taxes than poor people? YES. They pay for all the services they use (water, electricity, gas, etc), they pay for the size house they have (property taxes), they pay on their income. If they pay 15% tax rates and make $100M per year and you pay 20% and make 100K. They are paying $15M in taxes and you're paying $20k. So what's your point?

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seobro

13 years ago

I have talked to store managers. They are firing and not hiring which is sad for us. Also, I have talked to company owners. OK so they say that they will hire more next year if things improve. Sadly, my own sales are down this year. Politicians claim we are in a recovery. This is not what I am seeing.

Try to focus on selling items that are absolutely necessary. These have not been affected as much in the economic crisis.

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mblount 13 years ago

I was a V.P. for a huge Multifamily developer/contractor and had to lay off 50 people here in Orlando and close the office. This Company is still in business but I could not move to dallas. I have been laid off for almost 2 years and finally got a job with a Company in Tampa. I am 55 and I have never been laid off but the construction biz took a huge hit in Fl. I will give u a hint who I am going to work for. They own the 49 er's
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CDarklock 13 years ago

Originally Posted by seobro

Politicians claim we are in a recovery. This is not what I am seeing.

Things are, actually, getting better. The problem is that they're not really worse because of economic imperative, but because of economic incentive.

A number of large companies here in Washington have started reducing permanent staff in favour of contractors, because they do not normally provide contractors with benefits. This allows them to dramatically reduce the potential impact of the new healthcare bill, and in the meantime puts a bunch more money in their pocket. The employees turned contractors, of course, are tickled pink because they make a higher hourly wage to compensate for their health insurance premiums. Many of them are not getting health insurance with it, which is stupid and shortsighted. And most of them have completely overlooked the fact that they are also losing a whole portfolio of benefits other than health insurance.

Which the company now doesn't need to pay for, so they get to put the money back in their pockets.

Of course, what's going to happen now - in the long run - is that the company has all these contractors receiving substandard health care who will deteriorate and become ineffective. But that's the thing; subcontractors can be terminated at will. So there doesn't have to be a long run! Instead, they can just turn over a contractor every few months, and no single contractor stays more than three to four years.

Bonus: Because they're constantly replacing contractors, the contractors who are still working will work that much harder to avoid being replaced.

Some of your friends are already this screwed.
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dallus

13 years ago

Originally Posted by hardik jogi

Hi,
I was watching a couple of business channels in the morning. I saw many economists are saying that US economy is back on track and predicting 3.5% growth in 2011. They also added that jobs growth is also on track. CNN has also published a report about some top 30 hiring companies in US.
So overall the situation is improving.

Do you agree or you have different views?

I know that we only discuss here about Internet Marketing but Internet Marketing is directly related to the Economy....

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays....

I think you could be right, I live in the uk, and i know European commission have just past some new laws to stop the crashes happening again. One good law from them is that insurance companies can not insure anything unless they have the equity behind them to cover it. So know the insurance companies are loaning equity from people who own there own home with no mortgage, so for people who own there own home, its money for nothing, and its all underwritten so you have nothing to loose. I don't know if there is anything like this in US yet.

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Chris Munch

13 years ago

The business/finance TV channels have a habit of missing every major turn and having an awful track record with predicting the economy.

TV channels like those simply follow the herd. They take a current trend and extrapolate it into the future. Thing is the economy never goes in a straight line, it never has in its entire history.

What is true is that more and more people begin to believe the current trend will continue just before it turns.

The economy follows stock prices, and stocks have been in an upward trend in March 2009.

Go on YouTube and watch what the these business channels were telling you in March 2009. They stated stocks and the economy were just going to keep falling into abyss, right when stocks were about to turn and have the quickest increase in decades.

Go on YouTube and search for 'Peter Schiff was Right' to get an idea of what these business channels were saying before the 'Great Recession' kicked in.

Predicting the future of the economy is exceptionally difficult, but what you can guarantee is that the news channels and media just follow the trend, and the more sure they are of the future, and the bigger their claims, the less likely it is to happen.

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dvduval

13 years ago

In the chart above, the "teen weeny" gold line about the red line at the top of the scale for 2010 is what they are griping about.

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akazo

13 years ago

Here is a fantastic blog... read some of Mish's posts and decide for yourself if you think the economy is improving.

Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis

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jushuaburnham

13 years ago

I think so too, economy is getting better, showing good signs, hope it will go further.

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celente

13 years ago

ok I have only read a few of the posts above. But I just had to chime in. I love this forum, and the people in here. So with that in mind, I feel guilty if I do not tell you about the things to do with the economy that are coming.

If you are unaware, I use to trade full time on the NYSE stockmarket floor. I lasted about 2 years in there, and did pretty well, but the stress got to me. The stress was all worth it, because you get to know people, (probably very high up and more important than you and me) The rat pack on the floor traded for these guys, and did well, but they would feed us lots of information over the years that would just make our mouths drop. They would say one thing and soon, months down the track it would happen. YOu would just stand there and be amazed. I do not know where they are some elitists, they were just in the know.

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scrofford

13 years ago

Some economists are predicting a total economic collapse for the U.S. in March. Don't know how true that is, but I am trying to pay attention.

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celente

13 years ago

anyway I can tell you, that the economy is nowhere near recovering. I am told this is what will probably occur in the next 12 -24 months. There is no time line for this, as they say, but just watch for this to happen.

* inflation will come in, then hyperinflation

* watch oil go to $160 - $200 a barrel (coming soon)

* If you think gold is high now, you aint see nothing yet. Gold to $2000 and silver to $48 an ounce.

* The USD currency will be dead in 2012.

* when the FEDERAL RESERVE starts to buy back its own debt, we are in trouble. (this is starting to happen now - end of 2010)

* Gas will go to 4-5 dollars a gallon.

* There will be a currency crisis with EURO, and then soon after (weeks later) something will happen with the US dollar and also people heavily invested in the US dollar. ??? value ??

* There is BIG BIG problems coming for the EUROPEAN UNION and Banks.

* Watch countries start to not accept the US currency. (this is starting to happen)

* There is a mortgage backed crisis coming in 2011, and they (govt) will bail out again.

Sorry I did not know how to break this gently. But the answer to your problem is NO, the economy is not recovered yet, if all this is too play out. Like I said there is no guarantees of this playing out. But the two gentlemen that told me the above have been about 95% accurate. So if you want to print this out and put it on your fridge, and cross things off the list, then that is what I am doing too, so feel free too.

The thing is, I am already making money from 1 niche related to the events taking place....and already making money.

When the economy turns sour, it is all just about supply and demand. The great thing about this is that, supply is not there, and demand is stronger. And we all know what "desperate buyers" out there are like. RABID DOGS!!! So if you get involved with the right niche you can make some Serious money. You just have to see a need, and supply. It sounds simple, but its a little harder than you think.

I have gotten rid of all my US dollar investments and exchanged it over to the AUD considering the aussie dollar is at parity these days anyway. I am heavily invested in oil, future contracts, and watching it closely in 2011

It is currently at $90 a barrel. It will soon go to $100 then up and up and up. I really dont care if you do not believe me. Just please what what it does....as the price of oil highly effects businesses, i.e. high price of oil, business profits go down, the economy suffers. Price of oil goes down, profits go up, and the economy gets stronger.

So guess what happens if oil goes up to where I said it will.......

YUP!

Anyway, you can take this with a grain of salt. Just go out there do some reaseach and invest in products, and start services that do well in economic downturns. There were lots of millionairs and billionaire that were created in the last great depression. WHY? they saw demand and hungry buyers and gave them what they wanted.

Just like back in the gold rush, who made all the money? The guys digging for gold? NO WAY!!!! it was the guy up on the hill selling the gold diggers and panners the tools they needed to dig for gold. That was one smart man, and he made a mint.

Find a demand for something, and supply them with a product or service. If that work years ago, why wont it work now? why re-invent the wheel? That never really makes many people money now, does it?

Even if you do not think the things above (in bold) will happen. That is fine. I just felt I needed to get it off my chest, and help. You may take negatives away. But me, I said screw that.....and found about 3 niches I will be getting into as we go into 2011. I am already in 1 niches related to the above and its going well.

Yes, the economy will recover. But i really think we are literally years away. These two gentlemen just confirmed that. But like I said, who cares, money is money, people still have some of it to spend. And if people still have money to spend, they are going to buy things. Say no more!

Good luck warriors.

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heaton124

13 years ago

Im totally on with celente - he just knows what he is talking about, but I cant agree with the oil - price won't rise so fast, i think it will be soon going down! People will be able to buy cars on electricity etc. We will see.

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celente

13 years ago

Originally Posted by heaton124

Im totally on with celente - he just knows what he is talking about, but I cant agree with the oil - price won't rise so fast, i think it will be soon going down! People will be able to buy cars on electricity etc. We will see.

Heaton, please again.

I am not god, and do not have a crystal ball. I am not just guessing either.

I am talking on behalf of two very high powerful gentlemen. They have been very accurate in the past. I do not want to hide this info for myself. Infact I feel guilty if I did.

Please just print out those list I gave and watch. That is what I am doing.

The one thing they reiterated was that oil will go up. I just sat there like you...... as a trader it did not make sense to me either. They kept obnoxiously pushing and said "just watch it"

Last time they did that, and said that. I was flabbergasted.

Please people, I am not making this up. I actually care about people on here, and I want your business to thrive during the massive changes we have coming. So either take it with a grain of salt, be skeptical, or use it to your advantage.

I beg of you to be in the camp of the latter.

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celente

13 years ago

Originally Posted by heaton124

Im totally on with celente - he just knows what he is talking about, but I cant agree with the oil - price won't rise so fast, i think it will be soon going down! People will be able to buy cars on electricity etc. We will see.

That statement makes more sense to me, than alot of people in here, due to my economic background. But I will be watching too. I am not saying if I am right or wrong. I am just saying WATCH! :confused::confused:

Please since I posted this, I am getting flooded with PM's

Please do not PM me. I am not going to be held responsible for giving individuals financial advice.

Just search deep, research and ask yourself...are we really recovering and how can I find the lucrative opportunities.

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CDarklock 13 years ago

Originally Posted by celente

anyway I can tell you, that the economy is nowhere near recovering. I am told this is what will probably occur in the next 12 -24 months.

I am already making money from 1 niche related to the events taking place

Yeah... I always believe the doomsday predictions of people making money from those who believe said predictions.

Oh, wait, strike that... reverse it.
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- celente 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by CDarklock
  
  Yeah... I always believe the doomsday predictions of people making money from those who believe said predictions.
  
  Oh, wait, strike that... reverse it.
  
  I was waiting for that. LOL
  
  My niche has nothing to do with doomsday or we are collapsing syndrome. It is helping people, but as time goes on, more people will need this service and membership site I have created.
  
  I aint saying nothing.
  
  Oh! and I am not a doomster, you can call me Mr. Realist! Cause that is what I am.
  
  Just watch the next few months and you will know what I am talkin about.
  
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scrofford 13 years ago

Originally Posted by celente

So if you get involved with the right niche you can make some great money.

So what would the "right" niches be if nobody has any money anyway? Really I am curious.
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sarahberra

13 years ago

It does seem like it's getting better in some areas, but other industries are still tanking. My husband lost his job at an Aerospace company over a year ago. It's been difficult for him to find a job.

Thanks

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scorpion

13 years ago

Yes the economy is improving in Singapore. Singapore is one of the fastest growing economies in Asia. That means people have more spending power, which is good for Internet marketers like us.

So make hay while the sun shines.

Thanks

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Economy is improving?

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