The generation that values the written word is the biggest demographic group in the history of keeping such records.

Sounds like a pretty good market to target with articles.

Steve,

It is not that hard to find good written content if you know who can provide it. There are a lot of crappy writers out there that just keep putting the same junk out over and over again and I am guilty of rewriting a lot of articles of the years, but when I write an article it is good quality content.

We have to be honest and understand that it is all about marketing and most new marketers think it is about having more out there than anybody else and to an extent it is. However, there is still value to good written content.

Newbies in my opinion should start with article writing simply because you can make money with it without spending a dime and you can pick up a few good article writing guides for free if you are willing to be on someone's list.

I remember when I started 8 years ago with Bum Marketing and had no idea how to write a good article. I can put together quality content about anything now with the proper research and anybody else that wants to learn how to do so can as well.

Benjamin Ehinger

Well, yes there is a PLETHORA of crap out there I agree with you. However, there are some really good writers out there also. The problem is that many good writers are getting bogged down and lumped in with the 99 cent use-google-translator-to-get-it-in-english writers. My writing is excellent, I REALLY enjoy writing, but I have yet to find the right client/audience for what I produce.

Your post doesn't piss me off, and I agree about the continuing decline
in the quality of education and lack of interest exhibited by many students.

I also understand your frustration with finding quality writers.

But I disagree with your advice. I would not try to discourage anyone
from pursuing an idea or dream. Maybe the dream is to find a way to make
money and not necessarily writing. But perhaps they decide to give writing
a crack.

Maybe they suck at it in the beginning. But it's also possible for that
person to improve their writing. Of course we all know that is not a
common response - to improve. But there are some who will eventually
get it and make the bold move to learn and practice their writing.

Hell, that person could become a great writer. You never know.

So I would urge anyone to avoid discouraging newer and less experienced
people from pursuing their dreams just because that person is frustrated,
fed-up, and feeling the effects of a few beers.

But you can do that and you have; hence, my response.

I just finished slamming down a cold glass of milk. Damn good, too.

See ya,


Ken

Agreed with most. The low-quality writers have saturated the market, making it hard(er) for the 'real' writers to get paid what they deserve. With content, you're (usually) going to get what you pay for...

Wow, just what I was hoping for...a spirited discussion by people that don't suck at writing!

I've finally built one-to-many adsense sites and decided to do what I love best, research and write. I've done the research and the competition is fierce! It will be a long slow road to distinguish myself as a writer if I do go that way. (But I know where the niches are).

I've been buying and 'freesourcing' a lot of plr lately and the quality just sucks. And don't get me started with my research at the freelancing sites!

Thanks for all the good replies guys, I wish I could vouch for each and every one, but I will have to say I've read some of Tina's stuff and i was impressed. If only I could afford such!

funny you should say that, I use that as a joke with the 'kids'!

but I had shoes, it was my old '72 ford pinto that wouldn't make it up the hill!

persona my ass, I am who I am, I admitted I was drinking...you need a WSO?

We're all entitled to our own opinion, so I'm certainly not going to say you are wrong. I both agreed and disagreed with your post.

The way I read it, you seem to be implying that the reason newbies are incapable of writing an article is due to their generation and the way they were educated. I am likely in the 'people nowadays' group you are refering to and I'm inclined to disagree. I was reading and writing novels before I hit high school and I very rarely watch tv. I cannot stress enough that I am *not* an exception. I personally have more trouble finding someone who doesn't read compared to someone who does. Same goes for people lazing about in front of the television. I think people do still value the written word.

The thing I do agree with you on is many people do use their computers as a primary source of entertainment and recreation. And I will admit that I am so bad at maths it hurts, but I am exceptionally bad.

I think what stops people from writing decent articles is not neccasarily their generation, education or what they do in their spare time. It is their mind set and willingness to work. People my age are capable of good writing. But whether they are capable of 'sticking to it' or willing to put the hard yards in is another story. I think this applies to all ages.

A newbie wanting to 'make money fast' is already set up for failure and needs to be educated. Then it is up to their mind set whether they can achieve it or not. This is why most people can't write articles.

Just my opinion, people may disagree. In some ways I am a newbie myself afterall! Interesting thread and discussion.

This is true, but you're flat out wrong about coming from a generation that values reading more. That is just golden age thinking, where the past was better. For one thing, the illiteracy rate has dropped three quarters since then. Given how many things I've had to read from people of all ages, this particular generation isn't any less literate or able to write well than any other and, indeed, even taken as a percentage more people are able to write well than previously.

Clara,

I meant no condescending attitude toward your generation, although I wasn't really clear about that, like I said I'm now on beer #5!

I spent the decade from '90 to 2000 working with and supervising teenagers ( at a campground and swimming pool of all places! My late 30's Rocked!) The intelligence and thoughtfulness of each succeeding generation renews my hopes.

My swipe was with about the 'make money fast' group of newbies being told to 'write articles'.

That group is not a subset of your circle of friends.

Welcome to the forum BTW.

Justin, I could argue your point and we'd both wind up trying to cite studies and stuff, just suffice it to say I've initiated a spirited debate...

I've always just written my own stuff and made everything my best effort cause I thought that was how you did it. My brief foray into the world of "writing for hire" has left me a bit taken aback.

I was wanting to do a brief stint as a writer for hire in order to help force me into better management habits ( you can't leave a writing assignment for days like you can an idea), but the prices I would be competing with in the open market are barely subsistence level for an 'employee' in the place I live.

I would love to write on various topics for a while to get my perspective back, but with my mantra of "get paid something for everything you do" I just can't see how to establish that initial reputation for good content.

If you were to form an opinion solely on people that start topics on "article writing", you would be left to believe that article writers are the most arrogant, whiny, and entitled segment of the IM marketplace.

I agree that Article Writing may not be the best.

If you compare AW to Article Marketing, then the benefits of AM could be much better. While you may not get the initial $6, you may be able to make a sizeable commission each month from AM'ing.

That's what direction I would tend to go if I was in those shoes.

[DELETED]

I have a bit of a divided opinion about what you're saying.

On the one hand, I agree the level of education has declined. There's plenty of evidence of it here in the forum, with numerous grammatical and spelling errors that I know aren't typos.

On the other hand, I wouldn't write articles for someone else for what most people seem to be willing to pay. I would imagine there are competent writers, but they aren't cheap.

For now, I do all my own writing. I have more time than money and I'm sure when I'm done that I have articles that are 100% original.

In my opinion Article marketing is where every newbie should start.

While doing it you can learn keyword and market research, and enhance your writing skills.

So a person can learn by doing without spending money on it.

Just my 2 cents

I know I am a newbie here and I just started article marketing and freelance writing over the past couple of weeks, but I must say a MAJORITY of the material I find while researching, regardless of the niche is absolutely horrid!

That isn't to say there aren't any good ones out there you just have to sift through the crap to find them.

I'm thinking Kay figured out my drift (concept)

Time was, 6 beers exceeded my creative level, I long ago learned that a 12 pack is better for creative thinking, but only if your desk is near your bed lol

I love writing, but I was blessed with all the necessary skills way before this point in my life. I am grateful that I do not have to depend on others to handle writing projects.

Newbies should not shy away from article writing. After all, improvement will only come by working through mistakes and striving to do better. That's the case for all of us.

I agree with the concept that people in this forum really need to stop peddling the write articles line to everyone who comes to the WF looking for how to start out online. It is sad to see so many people immediately jump to the just write articles and sell line. Some people simply cannot write for the life of them.

Writing articles isn't a skill. It's a craft. There is so much more to it than simply spitting out words and hoping they work, never mind the grammar and puncuation that should go along with those words. Depending on the use for the article, it changes how it is written and crafted. If I am seeking a high ctr from an article directory, that article is going to be way different from an article full of content and information on my own site. The end use of an article deems the language, length and flow of the article. Most people do not get this.

In regards to pricing, you need to make yourself stand out. Part of being an article writer is being a marketer, and being able to sell yourself is key in getting the higher paying clients. They need to know why they should be paying you top dollar. They need to see the proof and evidence that you are better then that 99 cent writer.

Those who say you can't grab higher paying clients right here are the forum, aren't selling themselves properly. In a forum where people are selling articles for 99 cents, I am selling my articles for over $14 for a 400 word article (and that is when they are on sale). The difference? My articles do exactly what the client wants them to do.

Just my two cents, or ten

Best wishes,
Sylvia

Hey everyone! Who should be offline, trying to write good articles, rather than beating this thread to death??!

I am agree with OP, articles writing is hard for newbies. Even i ask for outsource take very long times to finish, i have used Warriors (no need ask for name). he taken quite long for just 10 articles , almost 3 weeks

I'm getting into the thick of Internet marketing for myself and my clients and I certainly do not want to jump into article writing.

I would prefer to pay a pro to get it done, and do it well.

Even in my market of book authors I'm surprised how many don't know how to write a great article. So I can understand your point.

Given that, article marketing is a great way to market on the Internet.

[DELETED]

It's worth noting that these poorly written articles are being bought and used by someone. If what they're doing works, they will continue.

I think that's why people tell newbies to write, I think we've all seen that some people will buy anything. They're selling pajama jeans now for pete's sake lol.

You're right. Writing well is not easy, and not everyone can do it.

I have to agree! I am 17, I go to college. When I was in highschool, my courseworks(project) weren't written well, getting a C+ on that coursework makes me proud of myself, lol. Lecturers do say I could improve my writting, but I can't, just can't. I've also paid a monthly subscription on a coursework membership website, to learn how to reference properly and how to start etc... Given that, should I still do article marketing?

The best thing for a newbie to do is to get a blog, and a list and an account on this forum and build a following from writing good posts, and link to your blog in your sig. Post good stuff there too, and from the blog, get people to subscribe. When you've gotten good enough so that you get new subscribers whenever you post, THEN you're probably good enough to write articles that will actually work for you.

When you start out just writing articles without understanding what they're for, or how to get attention, how to persuade, etc. they won't do much work for you, and they won't work well for people you'd sell them to, either.

Also, note that nothing I said above has to do with being a "good" writer in the technical sense. It's a whole different kind of skill than what you traditionally think of in reference to the way we're taught to write. Think of music - the marketing writer is NOT the composer, but rather the jazz improvisationist. We don't need perfect and poetic - we need sexy and fast.

And the way you get good at that kind of writing and communicating is by practicing directly on an audience you can interact with. You don't get enough feedback with "article marketing" while you're learning it. You could end up great at getting rankings while sucking at making conversions. Work on the conversion part of the equation first, THEN by the time you get good at the ranking and traffic part, you'll REALLY be able to make money.

And when you can write articles that actually CONVERT, then you can charge a LOT more than what most people think of when it comes to getting paid for articles. I saw someone say they don't charge more than $10 for a 500 word article - I usually charge $300 to $500 to write an email or blog post.

Marketing writing is a great skill to learn, the ultimate skill really - but you don't learn it well or fast by doing what is called "article marketing" - that's something you do with your content once you're good at making it.

At least, IMHO, but what do I know?

Most people from the younger generation CAN write well enough to produce quality articles. Heck all we did at school was write, write write. Sure most people aren't grammar pros but who gives a crap. A grammar error here and there nobody cares or probably even notices.

I think you're confusing Indian writers who write for $1 per articles with us.

Yes the good old days were better than now I agree, but the rest of your post I don't sorry.

Yes, they must have some experience from internet marketting before so they have an idea on what he is writing, and he must also know the keywords he will use for his article writing. Suggest to go to odesk and sell your articles, and if it is appreciated, you are a good writer.

I couldn't agree more that it is bad advice to give many newbies.

I usually avoid these threads and I think you'll find that most people who post that advice are not, let's say, the longer standing, more respected members of this forum. Often it's newbies or low post counters just posting for the links. I doubt if many, or any, of them actually make a living from article writing.
I'd stop now. Any more and you'll be spending even longer at the airport as they won't let you on the plane!!!

I dont really agree with any of your post year on year booksales have been imcreasing by around 22% in the UK since 2006 and looking through the major article directories for the most part the articles I have read have been ok.I wonder if when someone is researching a product to buy online do they want a Dickens novel about it ? I dont think so in the end these are different times to the 1950s for the most part its just a numbers game.

[DELETED]

Well writing is a good idea but once you get familiar with the content creation technique. once you are done and familiar with the techniques of creating useful and informative content then you can switch and start writing!

I would recommend Sharecash. It's the place I started a few years ago and it has thought me some really good lessons that I still use.

Hmmm...

The issues here are many.

(1) Article writing has its competition like any other freelance market. You can get a minisite designer for $7 and one for over $300, but there is a market for both and all inbetween.

(2) Writing is not such a bad place for a newbie to start... Provided that it is an interest they wish to continue with, or learn to make money in. It can also help them to build a list, meet new people, learn the ropes, earn a little extra cash

(3) You can always research niche markets, then sell article packs rather than work for $10 per article. Create 20 articles in one Niche, sell them at just $10 per pack with an exclusive deal of only 50 ever sold, and you make yourself $500 rather than $200.

Release more, or reduce the articles in the pack for same price and your profit/time ratios increase.

Use it to "finance" your business start up. Even if you only make $100 per month writing articles. If you use this to build your business by outsourcing other areas you are weak in, then you can build your income from small beginnings.

Good to see some debate on the open market situation

I agree with some of your points. If you have better quality writing and have the time to do it yourself, then do it yourself. There's nothing wrong with that.

I would love to write articles for people, but I want to improve my writing, and atop of this, I really am not sure how "good" of a writer I am when I compare myself to others.

I'm an 80s baby... and have always loved books and knowledge. I know plenty of others who do as well and it's really all about finding the writer worth their salt and paying that. When I want articles.... it's easier to outsource to a writer overseas who is working hard for their dollar and wants to learn and asks for feedback. I give it if I have the time and patience.

hey! nice post. thanks for that!

For me, article writing is still a good idea for newbies if they are taking the "link bait" route as opposed to relying on the engines to crawl random blog depositories.....

Ok, here is my $0.02, even though it will probably get lost in the shuffle.

I totally disagree that newbies should not start out with article writing because they don't write well. That is like saying that newbies shouldn't get into IM because they have never done it before and don't know what they are doing.

Aren't there about a billion threads on this forum telling newbies that they need to take action, check the results of that action, and change/improve their approach?

How does one get better at writing articles? WRITE MORE ARTICLES.

I am a newbie, but I also have a MBA from one of the top 15 business schools in the U.S. Can I write well? There are many that are better. Do I produce junk? Absolutely not! I also have a problem with grammar, circular thinking, no point, and poor writing in general. I re-write any PLR article that I get, not just to correct grammar, but to improve it and expand on the idea.

Maybe your thread should read, "Article Writing is NOT good advice for newbies who can't write well."

Then give some tips on how to write better, or find someone who can pen the articles they need for them.

Hi Steve. I agree with you on the part where you state that article marketing should not be the first step in a newbies arsenal in trying to earn money online.

Let me add that to write an article, one must have to the very least some knowledge on the subject.

That being said, my suggestion to a newbie would be to instead gain knowledge on subjects and later on write an article about that subject, but since few will ever go that far as to gaining that knowledge due to laziness or not excited enough to move forward.

Thus I then recommend a newbie to find motivation not in Money, but in a different field that relates to eventually earning online. Web site building, killer ad tactics, color psychology etc...

But the bottom line is "Knowledge". It doesn't come cheap. One must be motivated enough to learn on these subjects instead of being focused only on the money aspect.

My students who were solely focused on money, most have failed. Sure, Warren Buffet is an exception or is it? Mr Buffet's love is in making money, you need to love money more than anything else to follow him and have the same success.

In fact, Money is the last thing on my mind. I pretty much only get excited learning new fields that relate to earning online, and that's why I became a teacher.

I didn't read the thread so it may have devolved into trolling and arguing, but I had an idea based on the whole theory that the quality of writers out there is poor:

Outsource the fact-finding to a low cost location (use elance, odesk, etc) and if you're a great writer, you'll surely be able to churn out excellent content. Essentially, you're taking care of the high level stuff and leaving the grunt work to someone who is obviously more suited for it.

Has anyone tried this? Can it be economical?

So true, and then they think you are just "uptight" if you actually value grammar and word usage.

I think a big part of the problem is texting. People get so used to communicating in shorthand, that they forget that it is not appropriate in every occasion.

When my daughter got her phone and started texting her friends, I would look at her texts and make her write out every word she misspelled 10 times and rewrite every poorly structured sentence.

Yes, I'm a mean mom. :p

Back in my day we used to write articles in the snow!
Sorry couldn't resist.

I don't think we should pass judgement on others, especially for those who are educated that come here. Think about this, look at all the other aspects of IM. If they can't write articles then what can they do? Outside of someone who has initial capital to outsource then it wouldn't really matter. But most of the newbies that come here don't have that kind of capital and are looking for the easiest way in.

Hands down, article marketing is still the cheapest IM method for anyone who wants to get started with IM.

Steve,

When we advise newbies to write articles, we are not necessarily telling them to write and sell it to marketers. If they happen to have that skill, great. Go for it.

One huge reason we suggest writing articles is because it costs nothing and is a very effective way to drive traffic to your offers.

Whether we like it or not, writing doesn't have to be that perfect for marketers just looking to drive traffic to their site. Articles can be quite simple, resembling little more than a list of bullet points, an intro and ending paragraphs.

I'm not sure about your - 99% can't put a sentence together - comment. Where did you come up with that number? From what I've seen, many people have sufficient skills to write well enough for marketing their sites.

What worries me somewhat is the new modes of communication that enable poor writing. Growing up, I had little choice but to learn, which I got mainly from books.

I spent many hours in the late 1950s sitting at the library reading, or taking books home to read them. As you know, we didn't have all the distractions back then. In my case, we didn't have T.V. until my mother got sick. My father put his foot down and told us it was just for her. We couldn't watch it.

Today, the push is more to shortcuts - texting is a perfect example. I figure in time humans will possess only minimal word knowledge, no knowlege of spelling and grammar, and only 2 thumbs and 2 fists in place of our current 2 thumbs and 8 fingers.

The thing is, marketers have article production as an option. It's a highly useful one in this business regardless of whether or not they can write a perfect sentence.

It sounds like your rant came from your dissatisfaction in trying to find a quality writer for your needs.

I'm a bit of a perfectionist myself, which is why I'm reluctant to hire a writer. I figure I'll end up spending more time 'making it mine' that it's worth.

Looks like you'll just have to bite the bullet and write your own material.

And I hugely agree with Tina - it's not so much that there aren't any good writers, but that people expect to get high quality for peanuts. Writers with expert skill and credentials are not likely to want to take jobs that pay $10-$15 maximum per article. Many marketers seem to think $1-$2 is sufficient. Not. At least, not if you want something you can be proud to pass on as your own.

Sylvia

Article writing IS for newbies. Honestly, all Internet Marketers should be able to write at a somewhat decent level. If they can't, they probably won't succeed at anything else.

Have another beer.

It looks like you've discovered the real secret to
great writing...


Just kidding of course.

I have noticed a change in writing styles but
I always fall back to, "did they effectively get
the message across?"

Willie

A little off topic - and to nobody in particular :

But if most people in the "younger" (30 and under) generations cannot write a sentence, whose fault is that?

If they were publicly educated, then blame the school system and their parents (who might have worked one or more jobs to keep roofs over their heads and were too tired to check homework), as well as the personal motivation and ethic of that person to do well themselves.

Mediocrity is given a pat on the back. Hard workers create extraordinary results when they focus well... and then stop working harder at working hard and work harder at working smart.

If you're on this forum and can even post, you're a step above the person who doesn't want to speak up or out for fear of looking "different". So even with some of the "junk" some of us say is here, most of us regular posters and visitors are a cut above the rest.

Okay now I'm rambling, but if someone wants to work at internet marketing, learning to write an article isn't a bad idea. If teaches you the power of generating free traffic as well as figuring out how to improve your online communication skills and helps you develop an eye for what works and what doesn't if you can't afford an expensive copywriting course.

But back to the 99% sentence thing... I'm well under 30 and for the most part, there are plenty of reasons why MANY people of all ages can't write sentences. If someone can't write one due to external challenges - poor education from lazy teachers or tired parents, then that's one thing. If they're just unmotivated, then that's just what they reap due to lack of perseverance.

Personally, my grammar sucks but I intend on improving it. (and I hate public speaking)

I totally agree with Alexa.

IM is HUGE. Not everyone needs to know how to write, and a lot, I mean a lot do not. They can make money in a million other ways, that doesn't require them polluting the internet any further.

Junk articles are just that, junk.

I don't care if it's just for a backlink or whatever, I make damn sure each and every article I create is of high quality.

No one, I mean no one should be telling everyone and their dog that article marketing is where it's at, because frankly, they are doing that person an injustice as well as any unfortunate soul who reads their junk article and takes it as gospel.

Think about it this way. You're experiencing some symptoms. You do a google search thinking maybe someone can help, before you go rushing off to the doctors. At the top of the results is this article on EZA. Not being an IM'er you don't realize ANYONE can write that article. So they go through the article and figure they have nothing to worry about when in truth they are very ill and should see a doctor right away. But they don't. Because they believe that "expert" status beside your name means you actually KNOW what you're talking about and aren't just churning out content to get a backlink. Who in that situation is winning? NO ONE. Crap articles shouldn't be allowed. Ever. Anywhere.

That is why I take issue with telling everyone to "try" article marketing. Some people can write. Some can't.

Just my two cents,
Sylvia

Can't remember the last time I read a good article.

This thread clearly illustrates why you shouldn't drink and post.