USPS FAIL. I lose eBay and PayPal accounts.

54 replies
I knew something was weird when I started having a high rate of disputes within the past couple of days. eBay/PayPal called and told me they were going to suspend my accounts indefinitely due to the surge of disputes received. About 40 buyers contacted me within the past two weeks and said they didn't get their items, most didn't tell me they ordered in early November. I told them that a lot of people ship packages in December due to Christmas and to expect a delay of a couple days, so nobody gets them. What does eBay do? eBay sends a message to ALL of my buyers and tells them to file a dispute against me because despite over 4,000 positive feedback, I am a fraudulent seller. So, more disputes. Actually, 241 disputes. Instant closing of eBay and PayPal accounts. I start searching for tracking numbers... most are delivered, but about 30 of them are just in limbo. For example:



The disputes became "instant disputes" meaning the money was taken out not only my PayPal accounts, but bank accounts well just as soon as they were filed. So, there goes about $6,000 - straight out of my bank accounts. Man I would hate to be someone who lived transaction per transaction on eBay.

I call up USPS, they tell me they will look for the packages but could do nothing more and hung up abruptly. I call up PayPal and explained the situation. They transfer me about 6 times, and tell me "Yeah, nothing we can do, it may have been an error but I can't personally help you and I don't know who can. Just make sure all of your buyers get their money back (despite the fact that a lot of them get free items too, the ones that had proof the item was delivered, right?) and talk to us in 180 days about possibly opening up another eBay and PayPal account."

I wish I could say I learned some kind of lesson for $6,000.

EDIT: Btw, those were just two international packages, most were not.
#accounts #ebay #fail #lose #paypal #usps
  • Profile picture of the author tubeincreaser
    You can take USPS to court...
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  • Profile picture of the author thegabrieljibril
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author leclaims
      This is definitely not acceptable.
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  • Profile picture of the author webapex
    Geez that's one tough story, screwed by the government from a whole new angle. I hadn't heard of ebay encouraging disputes like that, how bad were things when they took that step.

    Are there more details you can share that the rest of us can benefit from?, was the botched shipments all sent out at once, or spread over some time. What would have prevented it, ridiculously expensive overnight, insured shipping, annoying daily followup communications with the customers?
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  • Profile picture of the author dave_hermansen
    Sorry to hear about that... When I first got into ecommerce I had a nasty chargeback and lost my credit card processing account. I was then blacklisted for about a year before I could get one again. It was extremely frustrating because I had done nothing wrong. I truly feel for you!

    If I were you I would stay on them. Just keep calling and push to talk to the "higher ups" with each company. You may be able to get somewhere with that approach. Good luck!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Look4VGames
    dont take USPS to court take Paypal and Ebay to court. Paypal and Ebay are the Devil and his minion in disguise.
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    • Profile picture of the author Silas Hart
      Those little screen shots were from just a minutes ago, you guys can feel free to enter them into USPS.com and check out my missing packages that started off this chain of events.
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  • Profile picture of the author Marvin Johnston
    Fortunately, I quit selling on eBay (i.e. oBay) several years ago because I started to hear horror stories of such goings on. SNAD was filed on a package sold by a non-profit, a junk replica of the same item returned (so there was proof of returning) and both oBay and PayPal said not our problem .

    I've never seen a company work so hard to destroy the community who supported and built the site.

    That said, I have always sent out such things USPS Priority Mail with delivery confirmation, and have never had a problem. Well, except for one shipment to Italy where it took about 60 days or so for the package to arrive and get through customs.

    AFAIK, USPS international packages must be sent at least Priority Mail, and include up to $100.00 of insurance.

    Sorry to hear you have to deal with all that mess!

    Marvin
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  • Profile picture of the author Serendipitous
    I hate ebay and I hate paypal based on my own personal experiences and now I hate them even more. 241 complaints over 30 limbo'ed items? 6k, gone? Honestly... Hire a lawyer and go after ebay and paypal. What ebay did to you amounts to slander and what paypal did amounts to theft.

    Sorry this happened to you. Best wishes in making it right.

    ~S
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  • Profile picture of the author paulie888
    Sorry to hear about your mess. I have friends who had mentioned similar issues about selling on eBay, and I know how difficult it must be for you, because when disputes are filed, you have to refund your buyers out of pocket before you can even access the money from the purchase transaction (which is in dispute and can sometimes take months to resolve).
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      I'm sorry to hear of this mess you're in - but not convinced ebay and paypal are to blame.

      It seems you had 40 complaints and did not investigate to see if there was a problem. You blamed it on slow Christmas mail and didn't investigate until ebay forced the issue. You can't ignore customers who have bought and paid for items not received. If they feel brushed off - they complain higher up the ladder.

      Chances are the 30 non-deliveries the USPS shows are those original items that were not delivered from that first batch of complaints. Had you taken the complaints seriously - you could have immediately re-shipped the items and avoided further problems.

      Most ebay products I buy arrive through UPS and Federal Express - not USPS. Simple reason - each item can be tracked in almost real time online with a tracking code.

      I agree ebay's response was over the top - but that's a lot of non-delivery complaints to have ignored and not investigated when they were coming in.

      kay
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      • Profile picture of the author Silas Hart
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        I'm sorry to hear of this mess you're in - but not convinced ebay and paypal are to blame.

        It seems you had 40 complaints and did not investigate to see if there was a problem. You blamed it on slow Christmas mail and didn't investigate until ebay forced the issue. You can't ignore customers who have bought and paid for items not received. If they feel brushed off - they complain higher up the ladder.

        Chances are the 30 non-deliveries the USPS shows are those original items that were not delivered from that first batch of complaints. Had you taken the complaints seriously - you could have immediately re-shipped the items and avoided further problems.

        Most ebay products I buy arrive through UPS and Federal Express - not USPS. Simple reason - each item can be tracked in almost real time online with a tracking code.

        I agree ebay's response was over the top - but that's a lot of non-delivery complaints to have ignored and not investigated when they were coming in.

        kay
        I would agree with you if I weren't me. Unfortunately, most of the 40 disputes came within a period of 2 weeks, and all were refunded very quickly despite the fact that I had already shipped the item. It was at this point when I started tracking all of the items (also, I ship more than 4000 items a month across several eBay accounts) Also, it's just kind of assumed that things will clear up themselves once they get the item and filing a dispute is normal around x-mas time because people buy items for x-mas and haven't got them yet so I just refund them and consider it a loss so 40 disputes isn't actually alarming right before x-mas. They usually get their item a bit later than expected, they got a full refund, and usually leave positive feedback.
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        • Profile picture of the author Rich Struck
          Originally Posted by FaJeeb View Post

          40 disputes isn't actually alarming right before x-mas.
          Uh... read that over and over again and then put yourself in eBay's position. 40 disputes is alarming. It's very alarming. Since 1999 we've done thousands of eBay transactions without ever so much as one dispute, not one lost package, not one late package. 40 in two weeks? I'd throw myself in front of a train.
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          • Profile picture of the author Baystreet
            Originally Posted by Rich Struck View Post

            Uh... read that over and over again and then put yourself in eBay's position. 40 disputes is alarming. It's very alarming. Since 1999 we've done thousands of eBay transactions without ever so much as one dispute, not one lost package, not one late package. 40 in two weeks? I'd throw myself in front of a train.
            It's nice to know you are perfect.

            However, the OP is doing more transactions in a couple of months than you do in 11 years.

            So 40 buyers out of 4000 complained and got their money back and some still got their merchandise. How horrible.
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            • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
              Originally Posted by Baystreet View Post

              It's nice to know you are perfect.

              However, the OP is doing more transactions in a couple of months than you do in 11 years.

              So 40 buyers out of 4000 complained and got their money back and some still got their merchandise. How horrible.

              I gotta agree with Rich here. 40 disputes in two weeks is clearly a warning sign from eBay's perspective. I was a Platinum PowerSeller in a former life in the computer/electronics categories (some of the highest-fraud categories on eBay) and I never saw disputes like that in such short order. I was shipping 25-50 products per day.
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              • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Morgan
                This sounds like you got a raw deal. Appeal to Ebay, call them up and do what you can to tell them your story. If they're smart they'll take into account your good track record, time of year and all that.

                If they don't help you, get an attorney.

                Sorry to hear about this.
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              • Profile picture of the author Baystreet
                Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

                I gotta agree with Rich here. 40 disputes in two weeks is clearly a warning sign from eBay's perspective. I was a Platinum PowerSeller in a former life in the computer/electronics categories (some of the highest-fraud categories on eBay) and I never saw disputes like that in such short order. I was shipping 25-50 products per day.
                When a seller gets 40 disputes in two weeks alarms should go off at Ebay. However they should also use some common sense. The OP says he is doing 4000 transactions a month so it is unlikely that he is a rookie.

                What is his track record? Unknown
                Does he have proof of shipment? Yes
                Did he refund on notification of dispute? Yes

                Nothing he has done sounds shady to me and I think Ebay/PayPal was way to quick to pull the plug on this guy.
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                • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
                  Originally Posted by Baystreet View Post

                  What is his track record? Unknown
                  Does he have proof of shipment? Yes
                  Did he refund on notification of dispute? Yes
                  Nowhere in eBay or PP TOS does it say proof of shipment means anything. He has zero proof that he shipped what was ordered.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Silas Hart
                    Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

                    Nowhere in eBay or PP TOS does it say proof of shipment means anything. He has zero proof that he shipped what was ordered.
                    There were tracking numbers for everything. I print shipping labels through PayPal and pay for shipping through PayPal, so tracking numbers exist for each order and already integrated in eBay and PayPals system.

                    Update:

                    PayPal allowed me access to my PayPal account, but oddly it has a negative balance of $2403, despite the fact that I have a $5,000 reserve on the account thats held in a "money market account" that seems to have disappeared. I called PayPal and they said this may be an error as the lady whom I was talking to couldn't figure out where the $2403 went to and sees that $5971 (the $6,000) was pulled out of my account and sent to various customers. I asked where my $5,000 reserve was, she said it was still there, but I don't see it at all. In theory, this should have been used instead of money being pulled completely out of my account.

                    eBay said they were going to review all of my information and get back to me.
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                    • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
                      Originally Posted by FaJeeb View Post

                      There were tracking numbers for everything. I print shipping labels through PayPal and pay for shipping through PayPal, so tracking numbers exist for each order and already integrated in eBay and PayPals system.

                      Yes, tracking numbers may exist but that doesn't prove you shipped anything. You could have shipped empty boxes as far as Paypal is concerned.

                      My point is that proof of shipping is much different than proof of delivery and, ultimately, that's what you agreed to provide when you started using Paypal.

                      Because you could not provide proof of DELIVERY, the sheer number of disputes was cause for even more alarm from Paypal's perspective.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Mohammad Afaq
                        Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

                        Yes, tracking numbers may exist but that doesn't prove you shipped anything. You could have shipped empty boxes as far as Paypal is concerned.

                        My point is that proof of shipping is much different than proof of delivery and, ultimately, that's what you agreed to provide when you started using Paypal.

                        Because you could not provide proof of DELIVERY, the sheer number of disputes was cause for even more alarm from Paypal's perspective.
                        Well tracking number IS the proof of delivery.

                        If it was an empty box then the buyer has an option to contact the seller and tell him about it.

                        Tracking Number is what paypal considers proof of delivery.
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                        • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
                          Originally Posted by Mohammad Afaq View Post

                          Well tracking number IS the proof of delivery.

                          If it was an empty box then the buyer has an option to contact the seller and tell him about it.

                          Tracking Number is what paypal considers proof of delivery.
                          I was a Platinum Powerseller for quite some time. I understand PayPal's rules. That said, a tracking number DOES NOT prove delivery. A tracking number that shows DELIVERED is proof of delivery.

                          OP stated he had tracking numbers showing proof of mailing. Proof of mailing is no good for Paypal. That was my point.

                          EDIT: Let me add that I am not a Paypal apologist either (I may be coming across as one). I got out of eBay because I was beat for TWO $3,000 purchases (international) in the span of a month. I'm certainly not a PayPal fan. However, if you follow their policies to a T, you should not have too many problems.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Silas Hart
                        Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

                        Yes, tracking numbers may exist but that doesn't prove you shipped anything. You could have shipped empty boxes as far as Paypal is concerned.

                        My point is that proof of shipping is much different than proof of delivery and, ultimately, that's what you agreed to provide when you started using Paypal.

                        Because you could not provide proof of DELIVERY, the sheer number of disputes was cause for even more alarm from Paypal's perspective.
                        If that were the case, then nobody can prove anything through PayPal. Even pictures showing the packages being sent in labeled boxes and envelopes would not constitute proof.

                        To follow up what the previous poster said, PayPals system reads data from USPS tracking which commonly releases PayPal payments to the seller now.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                          At least they are talking to you - hopefully they will put someone with common sense on the problem to investigate and get it straight for you.

                          I agree about the reserve - isn't that the point of having a reserve in the first place? I think one problem of ebay owning paypal is the combined knee jerk reactions that occur.

                          Good luck - I hope they reverse the bans and get you back on track.

                          kay
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            • Profile picture of the author Rich Struck
              Originally Posted by Baystreet View Post

              It's nice to know you are perfect.

              However, the OP is doing more transactions in a couple of months than you do in 11 years.

              So 40 buyers out of 4000 complained and got their money back and some still got their merchandise. How horrible.
              Yes I am perfect, thanks for noticing.

              Somehow I doubt we are hearing the whole story.
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              • Profile picture of the author techbx
                This is terrible. If I were you I'd be so pissed, I don't think I'd even have the resolve to share my story on WF. How do you keep your composure after losing $6000 when it obviously wasn't your fault?
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                • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                  Baystreet - This isn't a pi$$ing match and doesn't need to become one.

                  We don't know if refunds were issued as the complaints came in - but it seems that was done. It wasn't mentioned earlier in this thread. What was said was that customers were told mail took longer over the holidays.

                  The routing proof shown is from November 9 - 6 weeks is a long time to wait even if those were foreign shipments.

                  t obviously wasn't your fault
                  I don't think it's a matter of "fault". Customer ordered products and paid for them - they didn't receive them even thought weeks had passed.

                  We don't know what would have happened had the first complaints been thoroughly investigated. If they were all from orders shipped on a certain day - it would be wise to check other orders to see how big the problem was. It's a pain to do that and it can eat up a seller's time - but ebay could have been alerted the seller was aware of the problem and taking quick action to replace the products lost in shipment or had issued refunds. We don't know - but the consequences might not have been as severe.


                  kay
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  • Profile picture of the author Mohammad Afaq
    Small claims is your friend right now!

    I would definitely take UPS to court if that happened to me.

    EDIT: Also, call the hell out of Paypal. Similar thing once happened to me and Paypal won't open my account so I called the crap of them. I called them 3-4 times a day and after about 10 days they transferred me to someone who was actually able to do something.

    I talked to him for 5 minutes and he said: "I am sorry for the inconvenience caused, your account is now fixed. Thank You for using Paypal"

    And he hung up.

    So Call them!
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  • Profile picture of the author Will Perkins
    1-800-GET-ATTORNEY-NOW (It's a new kind of phone number, sorta like the new IPv6 )

    Seriously though, take all three of them to court if it comes to it. $6,000 is nothing to be fooled around with, and even if you don't get the money back, at least get your accounts back so you can continue selling.

    Also, say hello FedEX and good bye USPS.


    Good luck man, hope everything works out.
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    • Profile picture of the author rts2271
      Unless you sold over 4k units in that same time period you just jumped right through every warning flag a merchant system can have. Not only will you not win this one with ebay or paypal, but without tracking and insured packages you wont recover a dime.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        I would agree with you if I weren't me. Unfortunately, most of the 40 disputes came within a period of 2 weeks, and all were refunded very quickly despite the fact that I had already shipped the item.
        You may have shipped - but they didn't receive. You didn't mention giving refunds earlier in the thread - was that done as each complaint came in? It sounds as if ebay was not aware of the refunds being sent.

        kay
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          the OP is doing more transactions in a couple of months than you do in 11 years.
          Not necessarily true for that account as Fajeeb said his sales are 4000 across SEVERAL ebay accounts. We don't know how many sales were made on the particular account where the problem occurred. So you have no idea what the percentage of returns was for THAT account at ebay.

          For those advising "sue them" - good luck suing the US Postal Service. Suing UPS wouldn't help as they weren't involved.:p

          Fajeeb didn't mention earlier that refunds were issued. If this was done when each complaint was received, looks like ebay didn't know refunds had been given. I would have taken the path of immediately resending the item - by priority UPS or FedEx - but refunds work, too. Were the products holiday related items?

          I'm not surprised that ebay might get involved when so many complaints were received in a short period of time- I am surprised at the action they took in contacting other buyers.

          kay
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  • Profile picture of the author Daveyz
    Originally Posted by FaJeeb View Post

    I knew something was weird when I started having a high rate of disputes within the past couple of days. eBay/PayPal called and told me they were going to suspend my accounts indefinitely due to the surge of disputes received. About 40 buyers contacted me within the past two weeks and said they didn't get their items, most didn't tell me they ordered in early November. I told them that a lot of people ship packages in December due to Christmas and to expect a delay of a couple days, so nobody gets them. What does eBay do? eBay sends a message to ALL of my buyers and tells them to file a dispute against me because despite over 4,000 positive feedback, I am a fraudulent seller. So, more disputes. Actually, 241 disputes. Instant closing of eBay and PayPal accounts. I start searching for tracking numbers... most are delivered, but about 30 of them are just in limbo. For example:



    The disputes became "instant disputes" meaning the money was taken out not only my PayPal accounts, but bank accounts well just as soon as they were filed. So, there goes about $6,000 - straight out of my bank accounts. Man I would hate to be someone who lived transaction per transaction on eBay.

    I call up USPS, they tell me they will look for the packages but could do nothing more and hung up abruptly. I call up PayPal and explained the situation. They transfer me about 6 times, and tell me "Yeah, nothing we can do, it may have been an error but I can't personally help you and I don't know who can. Just make sure all of your buyers get their money back (despite the fact that a lot of them get free items too, the ones that had proof the item was delivered, right?) and talk to us in 180 days about possibly opening up another eBay and PayPal account."

    I wish I could say I learned some kind of lesson for $6,000.

    EDIT: Btw, those were just two international packages, most were not.

    Oh man, this sucks big time. I feel for you bro...

    That was quite unfriendly of both of them. I believe if you can show proof to Paypal that USPS did screw up, you would be able to take back your account no?

    Any update on this situation so far?
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  • Profile picture of the author Lauryn
    Aww man that really sucks. Sorry to hear that.

    The USPS and other shipping services really seem to get away without being held accountable for their actions when things go wrong. I have a friend whose mother shipped stuff to her and it was "delivered" to an address that doesn't exist - and signed for as a matter of fact.

    When she put in her dispute, 2 unknown delivery employees showed up at her door causing an argument about how they delivered it, even though it went to the wrong address. There's a claim underway now.

    I also have a friend who used to work at the USPS and told me the employees go through everyone's mail before sorting it. Troubling to say the least.
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  • Profile picture of the author Silas Hart
    Just curious (and I'm not trying to sound rude) - how do you prove that you shipped something to PayPal?
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    • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
      Originally Posted by FaJeeb View Post

      Just curious (and I'm not trying to sound rude) - how do you prove that you shipped something to PayPal?
      You don't - that's the point. Paypal doesn't care if you shipped anything. They care that it was DELIVERED. That's why showing proof of shipment is useless.
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      • Profile picture of the author Lauryn
        Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

        You don't - that's the point. Paypal doesn't care if you shipped anything. They care that it was DELIVERED. That's why showing proof of shipment is useless.

        Really? So, because it was proven to be shipped, but not delivered, you're on the hook even when you've done all you can as a business owner has been proven beyond reasonable doubt?

        Should we deliver our packages on horseback and in person now?
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        I Go Hard = "Slanguage" for putting forth a lot of effort.

        Don't be an arse and try to flip something you clearly have no knowledge of against me.

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        • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
          Originally Posted by Lauryn View Post

          Really? So, because it was proven to be shipped, but not delivered, you're on the hook even when you've done all you can as a business owner has been proven beyond reasonable doubt?

          Should we deliver our packages on horseback and in person now?

          That is absolutely 100% correct. Delivering in person would not work either because you still have no proof of delivery that meets Paypal's requirements.

          Anything under $200 and DELIVERY CONFIRMATION suffices. Over $200 and you need SIGNATURE CONFIRMATION.
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          • Profile picture of the author Lauryn
            Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

            That is absolutely 100% correct. Delivering in person would not work either because you still have no proof of delivery that meets Paypal's requirements.

            Anything under $200 and DELIVERY CONFIRMATION suffices. Over $200 and you need SIGNATURE CONFIRMATION.
            Wow. I mean, I'm not a merchant but I can see why that's frustrating.
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            I Go Hard = "Slanguage" for putting forth a lot of effort.

            Don't be an arse and try to flip something you clearly have no knowledge of against me.

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            • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
              Well, you need to look at it from the buyer's and Paypal's point of view. You, as a seller, have a responsibility to get the product to your customer. Your responsibility does not end at just shipping it.

              Look at it as a buyer. Assume you go to eBay and buy a $300 watch. Weeks go by and you never receive it. Seller produces a slip that shows he mailed it and says, "too bad, so sad". Would it be fair to you as a buyer to be out $300?

              That's why DELIVERY CONFIRMATION is required.
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      • Profile picture of the author paulie888
        Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

        You don't - that's the point. Paypal doesn't care if you shipped anything. They care that it was DELIVERED. That's why showing proof of shipment is useless.
        If the tracking number shows that a delivery was made, wouldn't that be sufficient/enough? (especially if you checked the "signature required" box).
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        • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
          Originally Posted by paulie888 View Post

          If the tracking number shows that a delivery was made, wouldn't that be sufficient/enough? (especially if you checked the "signature required" box).
          It would be sufficient only if the delivery address is the same as that registered to the PayPal account holder. This may not be the case especially at Christmas when many of these orders could be presents for someone else.

          With credit card orders, you can do an AVS (address verification) check, but there is no way you can do it with PayPal. Therefore the easiest way to get out of this situation is to ask the customers to drop the disputes.
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    • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
      Originally Posted by FaJeeb View Post

      Just curious (and I'm not trying to sound rude) - how do you prove that you shipped something to PayPal?
      Fedex [ ground too ] proof of delivery with signature.

      Dont ship stuff via USPS you're not ready to eat as a loss.

      Actually a double loss ... the $$$ the client sent and the item u shipped.

      Costs more in shipping costs to do it that way - but it looks like not doing so almost or did cost you a thriving business.

      I learned the hard way with eBay and Paypal with Intel Networking Hardware back in the day when people used to actaully buy gigabit network cards - LOL.

      Send a $300 network card out via USPS - delivery confirmation reciept [ LMFAO ] not in a million years.
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  • Profile picture of the author pheonixrises
    Wow... I'm really sorry to hear this happened to you. A while back I was dabbling with selling some stuff I had around the house on eBay and something similar happened to me. It was such a negative experience that I stopped doing pretty much anything on eBay after that.

    It definitely wasn't as large a scale as you, so I didn't pursue anything and in my case I just refunded the people's money and had the items shipped back to me when they finally got them.. but again, wow. I wish I had something to say that would be helpful - although there must be some kind of recourse you can take with showing proof of what happened, etc.

    Good luck!
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  • Profile picture of the author timpears
    I had so much trouble with USPS that I started to self insure instead of paying them for the insurance, only to have my claims lost when I filed them. But finally I just said the hell with them and used UPS and had no more problems.

    I finally just gave up on eBay as too much of a pain in the arse. If I was still into doing that, I think I would sell on Amazon.com. But I just can't be bothered to pack and ship products. My wife and daughter used to spend all day packing and processing orders. And I would spend about four hours answering email, before I went to work at my job. It was just too much work for the profit we made on most products. I would rather depend on AdSense to make money than eBay.
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    • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
      Originally Posted by timpears View Post

      I had so much trouble with USPS that I started to self insure instead of paying them for the insurance, only to have my claims lost when I filed them. But finally I just said the hell with them and used UPS and had no more problems.

      I finally just gave up on eBay as too much of a pain in the arse. If I was still into doing that, I think I would sell on Amazon.com. But I just can't be bothered to pack and ship products. My wife and daughter used to spend all day packing and processing orders. And I would spend about four hours answering email, before I went to work at my job. It was just too much work for the profit we made on most products. I would rather depend on AdSense to make money than eBay.
      Sounds like my PowerSeller days. My wife did all the packing. I printed labels and did customer service. It was actually fun until competition made the profits not worth it anymore. Getting beat for thousands twice in a month (my own fault) was the last straw.
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  • Profile picture of the author Margo Tuul
    If you decide to go to court...you can ask way more than $6,000 for this. Good reputation is worth way more than $6k. Way more...

    But same here...sorry to hear that this happened to you...
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  • Profile picture of the author brandon2664
    Next time use UPS or FEDEX instead of a government entity like usps. USPS is a bureaucracy that is bankrupt. It might be worth paying a private company to ship your product. At least you know it will get their on time.
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    • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
      Originally Posted by brandon2664 View Post

      Next time use UPS or FEDEX instead of a government entity like usps. USPS is a bureaucracy that is bankrupt. It might be worth paying a private company to ship your product. At least you know it will get their on time.
      I've shipped literally tens of thousands of items almost exclusively through USPS and had less than a handful of issues. However, when shipping internationally, UPS and Fedex may be better options.
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    This is a real horror story and I have complete symphathy with the it. I used to be in e-commerce and had shipped over 20000 orders from Hong Kong to the US. A lot of dynamics here can only be fullly understood and appreciated by people who have been in this business.

    "About 40 buyers contacted me within the past two weeks and said they didn't get their items, most didn't tell me they ordered in early November."

    I agree that you should have checked when the items were sent out rather than to expect the customer to tell you. But I am not sure how many disputes it could have prevented. In my experience, the majority of buyers will raise a dispute without contacting the merchant. Therefore still I think the primary fault is still with USPS. This sort of delay is unusual and appears to imply that there might have been a problem at your local depot. I would check with them whether there was indeed a probelm.

    But to recommend Fedex and UPS may not be applicable in all situations, especially if the items are not high value. In fact, the vast majority of our orders were sent by normal international air mail to the U.S. with no tracking number. Our postal service actually recommended against using registered air mail because it will actually cause more delay as more steps are involved. We have had very few complaints of non delivery.

    PayPal will only recognize proof of delivery provided that the shipping address matches the address provided to PayPal by account owner . I think your best bet is to contact those who have filed disputes and politely ask them to close the dispute as soon as they have received the item.

    Another lesson here is not to provide bank details to PayPal so that they can withdraw money from your bank account at will. Because if there is not enough money in your PayPal account to compensate all those who have filed disputes, the pressure would be on PayPal.
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    • Profile picture of the author Silas Hart
      Here is an update:

      PayPal has closed the account down again once I asked about what happened to my "reserve" amount of money. That money apparently disappeared, along with the money PayPal took out. My credit union initiated a chargeback for all of the transactions that PayPal took out once I told them what was happening. This resulted in PayPal calling me Monday morning and telling me that my PayPal account currently has a negative balance of... get this $12,000. This is because my bank did a chargeback and got my money back for me. I informed them what happened, but the guy wasn't even listening to me. I asked "Do you understand?" and no response. They said I was obviously committing fraud and they were going to pursue my "debt." Another good part, customers have started e-mailing me saying that the money I returned to them was refunded back to me. So, I'll be personally refunding those who had the money taken from them from PayPal.

      No word on my reserve.

      Talking to my lawyer today (Tuesday).
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  • Profile picture of the author moneyhunter
    I too had a stint with Paypal when sometime back my account was suspended for no good reason. But my held amount was far less than yours but it gave me a very irritating experience where no-one seems to help me out of that situation.
    On top of that Paypal has one of the worst CC where I further lost 100s of dollar on calling them on ISD rates. But as they say time eases pain and I've got over it and still using it under differ account
    So I guess the best thing is as stated above consult a lawyer ASAP and see what are your options, they are the best ppl to comment on this.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andrea Wilson
    Can you be really be charged for something that is not your fault? Geez Paypal has becoming worst and worst each day. It just passed New Year and they are already messing up with people's business. Go and talk to your lawyer, he know much better than us.


    Andrea
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  • Profile picture of the author ladysilkworm
    I joined this forum just so that I can say something here.

    I know your pain with USPS.

    Get this, I ship LIVE INSECTs, very perishable ones, and if I say this, no one seems to believe me, 7 out of 10 times USPS fails on me. Imagine if a box of silkworms take 7 to 10 days to get from NY to CA??

    I googled a lot of this USPS failure. When it happens to someone, it happens very often. It took me two selling seasons to figure why this is happen. I tried all methods of warning labels on the box, Please Airmail, please rush, fragile, live, avoid heat. etc etc. But couldn't figure why.

    Speaking to postal office does not help. Their knowledge is very very limited regarding even some of their shipping options. All they say is they are not required to scan, and that all packages get there in 2-=3 days guaranteed.

    What they DO NOT know, is that often times, USPS, instead of flying prioirty, they ship it!!!

    This is why NOTHING shows. USually when a package gets on the flight, they do scan that. But if you are not getting any sorting info, that means it got on a truck.

    I've got live worms taking as much as two weeks for a 300 mile trip!!

    Why does this happen, and why does it seem to happen just to SOME OF US??


    Now before I reveal the answer, I will say this, and to all of you who doubted the original poster's claim, YOU DO NOT KNOW THE AGGRAVATION WE GO THROUGH.. and I totally , totally believe 40 packages did not make it. But you know something, most of them, EVENTUALLY Do, just out of the normal timeline. I feel bad for you for having to refund them and they get their order sometimes later anyway. If you ship that maany packages a week, there is no way you are going to track it and no way you can try to resolve them..


    THE PROBLEM IS WHERE WE LIVE. YOu ship out of Chicago. I ship out of NY!!!

    One postal worker, who realized that I ship live worms, was nice to treat my packages specially, and took the time to scan them in as acceptance. If he didn't do that, my customers would accuse me of not having sent out the orders. Other postal workers didn't give a damn. They don't bother scanning them in because they are not required to.. or simply lazy.

    Ok, the reason why our packages fail.. is because we live in an incredibly busy mail hub. The sorting facility handles millions of mailings a week. They are tied up most on mondays, and tues after a holiday. It is within reason to think this way doesn't it. One said to me, there may not have been room on the plane.. the other (40 miles away) said to me, the place is 10 times as busy as so and so place on Mondays...

    so, for those who seems nonchalant about the aggravations we go through, well, check out where you live first. It would explain it..


    USPS is literally driving my business to the ground.

    I shipped 7 packages out on Monday. THey all went dead on arrival, with still 4 missing for 10 days...

    EVERY SINGLE ONE of the packages failed. 100% failure rate. Do you think I am bluffing??

    Statiscally 7 out of 10 of my packages do not make it on time..

    so for you, 40 out of a few thousands is NOT TOO bad!!

    At least you are not dealing with perishable items like me with sensitive timeline... no, I didn't lose $6000 but truly USPS is ruining my biz.. can I try FedEx and UPS< yes, but it is not an option customers choose... USPS is completely out of my control and is absolutely killing me!! @O*#&!&^@^


    One failure, one made up order (on my expense) and there, you lose that customer for life. They know better not to order from me not because of poor products, but because they are afraid they'd get their orders DEAD!!!
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