Someone took part of my WSO and made them bonuses in His WSO !!!

117 replies
Warriors:

Someone just bought some one of my PLR Products and just emailed me and said they wanted a refund because they offered in someone XYZ Persons Course.

So I looked up this guys name/wso and found that the title of one of my products is there and where he offers "much, much, much" in his bonuses.

Are people allowed to do this if they offer my product as a bonus and offer more under the guise of saying "much, much, much"?

Something doesn't seem right about this? Any thoughts?

Success,

Chris Negro
#bonuses #made #part #wso
  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by chrisnegro View Post

    Someone just bought some one of my PLR Products and just emailed me and said they wanted a refund because they offered in someone XYZ Persons Course.
    Let me make certain I understand.

    You sold a customer some PLR which he had already gotten from someone else, and now he wants a refund because he already had it.

    Am I correct in understanding that the other person had legitimately purchased PLR rights to this product from you?
    Signature
    "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3104881].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author jasonmorgan
    What are the terms of use for your PLR?

    If you are offering a product that can be resold, given away etc... expect that is going to be resold, given away etc...

    I've seen a lot of WSO that lump in PLR content as bonus material. And I'm throwing in $1,495 worth of additional content FREE!

    So what do you do...

    [NO] Can be resold as or included in a WSO

    Add that to your terms.
    Signature

    I'm all about that bass.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3104886].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    PLR implies that he had private label rights, so I'm not seeing what the problem is. He offered them as bonuses. Did you have TOS against offering them as bonuses on your sales page?

    As for the refund ... just refund and move on. Only way to go. The guy doesn't need two sets of your product.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3104896].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author mcmahanusa
      Suzanne is right. Just issue the refund without quibbling. It adds to your reputation in a positive way. However, when you issue the refund, if you have other products, provide the link to those products to your customer. What you lose on one end you might gain on the other.

      If the person is not already on your mailing list, it also gives you the opportunity to add them, and because you have acted in a fair, responsible manner, he will be much more likely to purchase from you in the future.
      Signature

      Success is not to be pursued; it is to be attracted by the person you become - Jim Rohn

      Visit our beautiful gardens

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3105220].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author chrisnegro
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      PLR implies that he had private label rights, so I'm not seeing what the problem is. He offered them as bonuses. Did you have TOS against offering them as bonuses on your sales page?

      As for the refund ... just refund and move on. Only way to go. The guy doesn't need two sets of your product.
      The issue is a Warrior (e.g. person #1) is using my PLR products as bonuses on his WSO. He is now selling his WSO with my bonuses. I know this because another warrior (e.g. person #2) said she wanted a refund because she already bought this from person #1.

      The refund is NOT THE ISSUE. I will be offering her a refund no questions asked. THE ISSUE IS....from my understanding.....WSO'S SHOULD BE ORIGINAL CONTENT FROM THE WARRIOR.....not PLR from another warrior....even if is under the guise of bonuses.

      Also, the issue is not whether it is under my TOS [from my WSO]....rather than the TOS on the WSO's on the Warrrior Forum..

      Thoughts/opinions - thanks all responding as I've been on here for over 3 years now and this was always my understanding.

      Warmest regards,

      Chris Negro
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3105280].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author rosetrees
        Originally Posted by chrisnegro View Post

        THE ISSUE IS....from my understanding.....WSO'S SHOULD BE ORIGINAL CONTENT FROM THE WARRIOR.....not PLR from another warrior....even if is under the guise of bonuses.
        I would think the best way to find the answer is to contact the Help Desk.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3105342].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by chrisnegro View Post

        The issue is a Warrior (e.g. person #1) is using my PLR products as bonuses on his WSO. He is now selling his WSO with my bonuses. I know this because another warrior (e.g. person #2) said she wanted a refund because she already bought this from person #1.

        The refund is NOT THE ISSUE. I will be offering her a refund no questions asked. THE ISSUE IS....from my understanding.....WSO'S SHOULD BE ORIGINAL CONTENT FROM THE WARRIOR.....not PLR from another warrior....even if is under the guise of bonuses.

        Also, the issue is not whether it is under my TOS [from my WSO]....rather than the TOS on the WSO's on the Warrrior Forum..

        Thoughts/opinions - thanks all responding as I've been on here for over 3 years now and this was always my understanding.

        Warmest regards,

        Chris Negro
        The WSO needs to be original ... not the bonuses. I've offered products that I had distribution rights to as bonuses and many people have, including PLR content that they have purchased. There is not WF TOS violation from what I can see.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3105343].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by chrisnegro View Post

        THE ISSUE IS....from my understanding.....WSO'S SHOULD BE ORIGINAL CONTENT FROM THE WARRIOR.....not PLR from another warrior....even if is under the guise of bonuses.
        That isn't my understanding.

        My understanding is that it must be your own product.

        Not unmodified PLR and resale rights products.

        Substantially edited PLR is permitted.

        PLR, MRR, and RR bonuses to one's own product are permitted.
        Signature
        "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3105563].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Ken Strong
          Seems kinda cheesy to me to buy PLR in a WSO and then turn around and offer it in another WSO, but as long as it's a bonus and not the main product I don't see a problem with the forum rules...
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3105644].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author sylviad
            Of course, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty darned sure we are not allowed to buy a WSO and turn around and resell it as a WSO. That, I'm sure, is against the rules. Even if it is a bonus part of the deal. It still goes to the WSO, regardless.

            Which makes a ton of sense. Talk about slitting your neighbor's backpack. Where are the ethics? We're here to support one another not, in essence, 'resell' someone else's WSO to the same crowd.

            Sylvia
            Signature
            :: Got a dog? Visit my blog. Dog Talk Weekly
            :: Writing, Audio Transcription Services? - Award-winning Journalist is taking new projects. Warrior Discounts!
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3105721].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
              Banned
              Originally Posted by sylviad View Post

              Of course, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty darned sure we are not allowed to buy a WSO and turn around and resell it as a WSO. That, I'm sure, is against the rules. Even if it is a bonus part of the deal. It still goes to the WSO, regardless.

              Which makes a ton of sense. Talk about slitting your neighbor's backpack. Where are the ethics? We're here to support one another not, in essence, 'resell' someone else's WSO.

              Sylvia
              That's not what he did. He bought PLR and offered it as a bonus to his WSO, which is significantly different than reselling it as the WSO product. One is against the TOS .... the other is not.

              There's plenty of PLR being sold that have their own TOS that say
              [NO] Can be offered as a bonus
              [NO] Can be given away

              It's important to set your terms if something like this is going to upset the PLR seller.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3105730].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author sylviad
                Someone took part of my WSO and made them bonuses in His WSO !!!

                The only difference is that he's only reselling 'part' of the original WSO. Still against the WF rules.

                The OP also states he saw the title of his original product in there as well. Obviously, he can't tell if it actually is his product without buying it himself to look at it.

                The OP isn't asking if it's alright for the person to resell the PLR as bonuses. He's asking if it's right to offer his product as another WSO. Which it is not.

                Sylvia
                Signature
                :: Got a dog? Visit my blog. Dog Talk Weekly
                :: Writing, Audio Transcription Services? - Award-winning Journalist is taking new projects. Warrior Discounts!
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3105750].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by sylviad View Post

                  Someone took part of my WSO and made them bonuses in His WSO !!!

                  The only difference is that he's only reselling 'part' of the original WSO. Still against the WF rules.

                  The OP also states he saw the title of his original product in there as well. Obviously, he can't tell if it actually is his product without buying it himself to look at it.

                  The OP isn't asking if it's alright for the person to resell the PLR as bonuses. He's asking if it's right to offer his product as another WSO. Which it is not.

                  Sylvia
                  No ... actually what he has said is that someone has offered his PLR product as a bonus on their own WSO. There's a big difference in offering PLR that did not have any TOS on them as a free bonus on your WSO and stealing a WSO and reselling it as your WSO. That is not what has been done.

                  He would have a real gripe if he did have TOS that excluded the PLR being used as a bonus or given away. He did not have those TOS in place.
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3105770].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author sylviad
                    Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                    No ... actually what he has said is that someone has offered his PLR product as a bonus on their own WSO. There's a big difference in offering PLR that did not have any TOS on them as a free bonus on your WSO and stealing a WSO and reselling it as your WSO. That is not what has been done.

                    He would have a real gripe if he did have TOS that excluded the PLR being used as a bonus or given away. He did not have those TOS in place.
                    Chris never stated whether or not such details were in his TOS. Can I assume you saw his WSO and the TOS? He hasn't confirmed or denied his TOS in this thread (unless I'm blind ). What he did say was:

                    < the title of one of my products is there and where he offers "much, much, much" in his bonuses. >

                    Clearly, this is all in how we translate things. From his second post above, it seems pretty clear to me that in essence, the second person is selling a good portion of his product in a new WSO.

                    Sylvia
                    Signature
                    :: Got a dog? Visit my blog. Dog Talk Weekly
                    :: Writing, Audio Transcription Services? - Award-winning Journalist is taking new projects. Warrior Discounts!
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3105848].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by sylviad View Post

                      Chris never stated whether or not such details were in his TOS. Can I assume you saw his WSO and the TOS? He hasn't confirmed or denied his TOS in this thread (unless I'm blind ). What he did say was:

                      < the title of one of my products is there and where he offers "much, much, much" in his bonuses. >

                      Clearly, this is all in how we translate things. From his second post above, it seems pretty clear to me that in essence, the second person is selling a good portion of his product in a new WSO.

                      Sylvia
                      I checked his two current PLR WSOs. One doesn't have rights defined, and the other has this:

                      [YES] Personal rights only
                      [YES] You get to give away the products to build your list (e.g to business owners other marketing consultants)
                      [YES] Can Edit Source HTML,Word Document & powerpoint 2007 Files
                      [YES] You sell these products to business owners for anything under $27
                      [YES] Can Be Used As Web Content
                      [YES] Can Be Broken Down Into Articles
                      [YES]Can be broken down Into an auto-responder series
                      [YES] Can Be Added To Paid Membership Sites
                      [YES] You can sell this offline package to other marketing consultants
                      [YES] Can Be Offered Through Auction Sites
                      [YES] Can Sell Resale Rights
                      [YES]Can Sell Master Resale Rights
                      [YES] Can Sell Private Label Rights

                      As you can see, there is very little restriction on what someone can do with this PLR.

                      The buyer did not violate the seller's TOS or the WF TOS. Free bonuses that are PLR are not prohibited by the WF. Whether or not anyone thinks it's cheesy, unethical ... whatever ... it does not violate TOS.
                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3105922].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author sylviad
                        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                        I checked his two current PLR WSOs. One doesn't have rights defined, and the other has this:

                        [YES] Personal rights only
                        [YES] You get to give away the products to build your list (e.g to business owners other marketing consultants)
                        [YES] Can Edit Source HTML,Word Document & powerpoint 2007 Files
                        [YES] You sell these products to business owners for anything under $27
                        [YES] Can Be Used As Web Content
                        [YES] Can Be Broken Down Into Articles
                        [YES]Can be broken down Into an auto-responder series
                        [YES] Can Be Added To Paid Membership Sites
                        [YES] You can sell this offline package to other marketing consultants
                        [YES] Can Be Offered Through Auction Sites
                        [YES] Can Sell Resale Rights
                        [YES]Can Sell Master Resale Rights
                        [YES] Can Sell Private Label Rights

                        As you can see, there is very little restriction on what someone can do with this PLR.

                        The buyer did not violate the seller's TOS or the WF TOS. Free bonuses that are PLR are not prohibited by the WF. Whether or not anyone thinks it's cheesy, unethical ... whatever ... it does not violate TOS.
                        Hm. Makes me wonder where people are reading the WF rules. The WSO Rules on this issue contain simply this:

                        The Rules:

                        1. All WSO's Must Be Something You Created. A Product Of Your Own. (A package of ebooks someone threw together is not considered a product and will be deleted) This is completely self explanatory and not up for debate. If you yourself did not create the product do not post it here.

                        Where does it specify 'bonuses' within a WSO? It's all a WSO. The rule still applies, as simple and basic as it is. It must be something you created. Period.

                        Sylvia
                        Signature
                        :: Got a dog? Visit my blog. Dog Talk Weekly
                        :: Writing, Audio Transcription Services? - Award-winning Journalist is taking new projects. Warrior Discounts!
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3105962].message }}
                        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                          Banned
                          Originally Posted by sylviad View Post

                          Hm. Makes me wonder where people are reading the WF rules. The WSO Rules on this issue contain simply this:

                          The Rules:

                          1. All WSO's Must Be Something You Created. A Product Of Your Own. (A package of ebooks someone threw together is not considered a product and will be deleted) This is completely self explanatory and not up for debate. If you yourself did not create the product do not post it here.

                          Where does it specify 'bonuses' within a WSO? It's all a WSO. The rule still applies, as simple and basic as it is. It must be something you created. Period.

                          Sylvia

                          Bonuses are not addressed in the WSO rule at all. Only the WSO product is addressed, so there is no rule on bonuses for a WSO.

                          You do realize that a mod has already stated in this thread that offering PLR as a free bonus on a WSO is not against the WF TOS, don't you?
                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3105985].message }}
                          • Profile picture of the author reapr
                            I am not sure if this ol' dog is getting the point of a thread this long?

                            Just refund and move on.
                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106009].message }}
                          • Profile picture of the author sylviad
                            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                            ...You do realize that a mod has already stated in this thread that offering PLR as a free bonus on a WSO is not against the WF TOS, don't you?
                            Didn't and don't see it. The mod (assuming it was posted by a mod) must have deleted it. Unless your version of the WF shows something different from what I'm seeing.

                            Sylvia
                            Signature
                            :: Got a dog? Visit my blog. Dog Talk Weekly
                            :: Writing, Audio Transcription Services? - Award-winning Journalist is taking new projects. Warrior Discounts!
                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106065].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Johnny Slater
                  The part in question is PLR stuff. Once the PLR was transferred the second seller has full rights to offer it as a bonus anywhere he wishes, including as a bonus to his own WSO's.

                  There are no rules saying anything about using PLR as bonuses, only as the main WSO selling product itself. The "no plr" part of the WSO rules ONLY cover the main product being offered, it does not cover the bonuses being offered with the main product.

                  Btw, a mod has already answered this in this thread so it is now a moot point isn't it?

                  Originally Posted by sylviad View Post

                  Someone took part of my WSO and made them bonuses in His WSO !!!

                  The only difference is that he's only reselling 'part' of the original WSO. Still against the WF rules.

                  The OP also states he saw the title of his original product in there as well. Obviously, he can't tell if it actually is his product without buying it himself to look at it.

                  The OP isn't asking if it's alright for the person to resell the PLR as bonuses. He's asking if it's right to offer his product as another WSO. Which it is not.

                  Sylvia
                  Signature

                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3105776].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author sylviad
                    I ain't gettin' it.

                    What's the difference - PLR or the guy's product? It's still a product contained in the original WSO. It's still a purchased WSO, no matter how you spin it.

                    It's still (as far as we know) the same material that the OP was selling. As I said, he even states that his product title is listed in the new WSO.

                    It's also (as far as we know) not the new seller's original work.

                    Where's the all-knowing Paul Myers when you need him?

                    Sylvia
                    Signature
                    :: Got a dog? Visit my blog. Dog Talk Weekly
                    :: Writing, Audio Transcription Services? - Award-winning Journalist is taking new projects. Warrior Discounts!
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3105815].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author countonuspr
                    I personally think it is just not an ethical thing to add another WSO you bought with PLR as a bonus to one you created. I always offer unique products with my offers, and create my own bonuses or value to my offers.

                    I wouldn't say it is against the rules of the forum though. What I do to prevent this from happening is in my PLR terms I say the following:

                    [NO] Can be used as a WSO or a bonus to a WSO
                    [No] Can be used as a Classified on the Warrior Forum

                    This keeps your PLR from being resold as a WSO. I have only had a couple of issues where someone did this, but they quickly took it down and everything worked out well.

                    Since it is your PLR you can set the rules to your PLR offer and they need to comply with that as much as possible. It is not different than some people saying you can't sell their PLR on Ebay or something like that.

                    Hope this helps! Just add those lines to your rights on your PLR and it should prevent this problem, or at least give you a better argument to the person violating the rights.
                    Signature
                    Paul Counts, Host of the "Count On Us Internet Profits Radio Show"
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3105832].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author bobsilber
                      Originally Posted by countonuspr View Post


                      I wouldn't say it is against the rules of the forum though. What I do to prevent this from happening is in my PLR terms I say the following:

                      [NO] Can be used as a WSO or a bonus to a WSO
                      [No] Can be used as a Classified on the Warrior Forum

                      This keeps your PLR from being resold as a WSO.
                      Chris,

                      First let me say this. I feel your pain. I wouldn't take a WSO PlR and offer it as a bonus on the WSO.

                      A couple years ago I asked Allen that question and at the time he had no problem with giving a bonus you have the rights to that is not your product. Now, I'm not saying that Allen couldn't have changed his mind the next day and he certainly has the right to do that.

                      As I see it, in a WSO you are encouraged to give as much value as you can.
                      Against that background, even though Allen is Super-Allen, he cannot make rules to cover every possible scenario. The burden and responsibility falls on us to restrict the sale of our own products, as we want, with the licenses we give to the buyers of those products.

                      The solution is quoted above from countonuspr. He didn't rely on anyone but himself to dictate the terms of his product's license. He was smart enough to have envisioned a possible problem he didn't want and set the licensing terms of his product accordingly.

                      Now, absent the scenario that was mentioned where someone is offering a token product with the bonus being the real value, which would seem to circumvent the rules, we each need to think about the restrictions we want in the license to our products and doubly so when it is a PLR product.
                      .
                      .
                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106933].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Rsberg
            Originally Posted by Ken Strong View Post

            Seems kinda cheesy to me to buy PLR in a WSO and then turn around and offer it in another WSO, but as long as it's a bonus and not the main product I don't see a problem with the forum rules...
            I have to agree and I'd like to add that there is no way I would offer PLR from someones WSO as a bonus within my own WSO...very cheesy indeed (and that's a nice way of putting it if you ask me).

            Having said that, I don't think it breaks any of the current forum rules...maybe it should though...hmmmmm.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3105897].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
          Paul,

          Substantially edited PLR is permitted.
          If you're still monitoring this thread, can you verify if that statement is true or not? I always thought PLR was not permitted whether it was rewritten or not. If it's true, what percentage would substantially edited be considered? 50% ... 75% ???
          Signature

          Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106463].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
            Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

            If it's true, what percentage would substantially edited be considered? 50% ... 75% ???
            There's no hard and fast rule, according to the help desk. There is a point where you've made "enough" changes for the product to be considered original. They didn't and wouldn't commit to a percentage, it just has to have "enough" changes to make it look and feel like a completely new product.
            Signature
            "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106485].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Ken Strong
            Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

            Paul,

            Substantially edited PLR is permitted.
            If you're still monitoring this thread, can you verify if that statement is true or not? I always thought PLR was not permitted whether it was rewritten or not. If it's true, what percentage would substantially edited be considered? 50% ... 75% ???
            The statement referred to is a single Warrior's version of what his understanding (his words) of what the rules mean. A number of people in the thread have since latched onto it as if it's official forum policy. It's just one person's interpretation.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106976].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Steve Wells
          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

          That isn't my understanding.

          My understanding is that it must be your own product.

          Not unmodified PLR and resale rights products.

          Substantially edited PLR is permitted.

          PLR, MRR, and RR bonuses to one's own product are permitted.
          This makes 100% complete sense to me........

          The "Substantially edited PLR is permitted." part is what I believe people have a problem with. Because most people are to damn lazy or do not have the graphics and webdesign expertise to actaully redo PLR to the point that it does not look like the original product.
          Signature
          Need Custom Graphics Work? - Message Me For A Design Quote!
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106506].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Mohammad Afaq View Post

        I love how everyone is coming up with their own interpretation of rules
        That's what always happens, and is why this thread perhaps shouldn't be here at all but should originally have been a helpdesk request.

        Originally Posted by chrisnegro View Post

        The issue is a Warrior (e.g. person #1) is using my PLR products as bonuses on his WSO.
        How are they "your" PLR products if he bought them without it being specified that he couldn't give them away as bonuses?

        Originally Posted by sylviad View Post

        Where does it specify 'bonuses' within a WSO? It's all a WSO. The rule still applies, as simple and basic as it is.
        I must admit, that isn't my interpretation of it at all: it seems to me that without bonuses being mentioned per se, they're probably not covered by the rule. There's no reason to assume that if you choose to give a bonus, it should necessarily be covered by the same rule, surely? But fortunately it isn't for us to decide.

        Originally Posted by chrisnegro

        from my understanding.....WSO'S SHOULD BE ORIGINAL CONTENT FROM THE WARRIOR.....
        That's his WSO, not the bonuses, maybe? This isn't explicit in the rules, I think? So clarification is needed, but not from other Warriors, surely? Good luck in getting it resolved. A helpdesk ticket is the way to go, I think.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3105966].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Ken Strong
          Originally Posted by Mohammad Afaq View Post

          I love how everyone is coming up with their own interpretation of rules
          Well, many of the rules are unwritten, so that's to be expected... even the mods have to judge things on a case-by-case basis often. That makes more sense (and it's more practical) than trying to imagine every possible scenario in advance and making an inflexible rule about it.

          But some people in this thread are interpreting the rules their own way and then insisting that their version is the correct one.

          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          That's what always happens, and is why this thread perhaps shouldn't be here at all but should originally have been a helpdesk request.
          Actually, I would have sent a PM to the offending seller before I started a public thread about it. Then, if he/she refused, maybe open a Help Desk ticket for clarification.

          I think you can make a good case that this should be against the rules because it obviously already has harmed Chris' WSO. Chris, open a Help Desk ticket or even just use the Report Post button and give the details. This thread isn't going to help you much because you can't name names or post links.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106006].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Ken Strong View Post

            I think you can make a good case that this should be against the rules because it obviously already has harmed Chris' WSO.
            This is a very good point, it must be acknowledged.

            Tricky business, "statutory interpretation", isn't it? Still, someone has to keep those appeal courts busy ...
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106027].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
              Sylvia,
              Where's the all-knowing Paul Myers when you need him?
              There is no such person. I'll try and fill in for him.

              Mostly, I've been sitting back watching. It doesn't look like there are going to be any new perspectives, so...

              This is an edge question. The rules are clear on the product that's posted, but not on offering other things as bonuses. As I read them right now, there's nothing preventing someone from doing this, other than possibly the terms of the rights license that was issued when the product was sold.

              The rule about harming another person's WSO is pretty clearly meant to keep people from bashing a product without having seen it, or solely for the purpose of damaging someone's sales or reputation. It is definitely NOT meant to keep competition out.

              As I read things now, this isn't a violation. If Allen has a different interpretation, we'll go with that, but I'm not seeing any breaking of the rules here, and nothing even slightly unethical. Tacky, etc, are personal opinions, and I won't argue those.

              This is a problem with selling resale or private label rights. If you're not careful with the license, you can create your own competition.

              I might look at it differently if the product was a small part of the offer, and the bonuses were specified. If the actual product appeared to be an excuse to get around the rule, that could lead to invoking the "original content" provision. But with an unadvertised or unspecified bonus... Not likely.


              Paul
              Signature
              .
              Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106100].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author sylviad
                Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                Sylvia,There is no such person. I'll try and fill in for him....

                I might look at it differently if the product was a small part of the offer, and the bonuses were specified. If the actual product appeared to be an excuse to get around the rule, that could lead to invoking the "original content" provision. But with an unadvertised or unspecified bonus... Not likely.

                Paul

                Ok. Just one more and I'm done.

                Hi Paul,

                From Chris's statement, it appears that this was not unadvertised:

                So I looked up this guys name/wso and found that the title of one of my products is there and where he offers "much, much, much" in his bonuses.

                Of course, we don't know if it is the original product or a modified version.
                And I haven't seen his WSO so I'm guessing the bonuses are listed?

                Sylvia
                Signature
                :: Got a dog? Visit my blog. Dog Talk Weekly
                :: Writing, Audio Transcription Services? - Award-winning Journalist is taking new projects. Warrior Discounts!
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106141].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Ken Strong View Post

            I think you can make a good case that this should be against the rules because it obviously already has harmed Chris' WSO. Chris, open a Help Desk ticket or even just use the Report Post button and give the details. This thread isn't going to help you much because you can't name names or post links.
            I think that the OP harmed his own WSO by not defining TOS that prohibited the product from being offered as a bonus, or given away.

            It is the nature of PLR that it's going to be distributed if the rights to do that are there. In this thread, some are making it sound as though the "other guy" has stolen something from the OP, which to me it does not appear that he has. It appears that he has taken what was offered and used it.

            Since there is no written rules about free bonuses on a WSO, there are many WSOs offering PLR as free bonuses, so perhaps if it is not allowed, someone should write that in.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106080].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Ken Strong
              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

              I think that the OP harmed his own WSO by not defining TOS that prohibited the product from being offered as a bonus, or given away.
              He did harm his own WSO, but I think it was inadvertent because most people wouldn't have anticipated this situation, where someone buys their PLR and turns around and offers it in another WSO...

              We have had situations where someone bought a WSO and then sold it again as a WSO, making it their main offer... that's obviously against the rules and was deleted. But what we're talking about here is more of a gray area that's not explicitly covered by the current rules. Like I said above, Allen has said he prefers not to make impossibly long lists of hard-and-fast rules if he can avoid it. I'm sure he'll add new rules if/when he thinks it's necessary.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106103].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Ken Strong View Post

                He did harm his own WSO, but I think it was inadvertent because most people wouldn't have anticipated this situation, where someone buys their PLR and turns around and offers it in another WSO...

                We have had situations where someone bought a WSO and then sold it again as a WSO, making it their main offer... that's obviously against the rules and was deleted. But what we're talking about here is more of a gray area that's not explicitly covered by the current rules. Like I said above, Allen has said he prefers not to make impossibly long lists of hard-and-fast rules if he can avoid it. I'm sure he'll add new rules if/when he thinks it's necessary.
                I don't really have a dog in the fight. Just asserting my opinion on it the way I read it. It's easy enough for the OP to fix this type of situation in the future. Just clearly define your TOS to prevent this and then you have a good case to present to the help desk.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106111].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author sylviad
          Why is everyone making this such a complicated issue?

          You didn't create it - therefore it cannot be offered as a WSO.

          The specifics beyond that do not have to be spelled out in the rules. That's all there is to know.

          Whether you like it or not, if the person lists in the WSO that it includes Bonuses - then that's all part of the WSO. They are part of the selling feature of the WSO. If it's not part of the WSO, then they should not be mentioned there. Send the buyers an email with the special bonuses AFTER purchase. That way, they are not listed as part of the WSO.

          Again, as Allen said: "This is completely self explanatory..."

          You're reading into it more than what it is.

          It really is not complicated, people.

          Sylvia
          Signature
          :: Got a dog? Visit my blog. Dog Talk Weekly
          :: Writing, Audio Transcription Services? - Award-winning Journalist is taking new projects. Warrior Discounts!
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106015].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Ken Strong
            Originally Posted by sylviad View Post

            You're reading into it more than what it is.

            It really is not complicated, people.
            Actually, it is a bit more complicated than you're making it. Allen has stated publicly that he really hates making long lists of rules, and prefers to let things work themselves out organically whenever possible, through a combination of member moderation and, um... moderator moderation.

            Your strict interpretation of the rules is not at all unreasonable, but you've decided that your interpretation is the one and only correct interpretation and you're getting annoyed that everyone else won't automatically adopt your interpretation.

            I'm pretty sure this isn't the first time someone's offered non-original PLR as a WSO bonus. I think I may have even done it in the past. Allen, of course, has the final say on all of this stuff.

            Chris, here's what you need to do: PM the other seller, if you haven't already, and ask them to change their bonus, because you had at least one refund already so he/she is harming your WSO. If that doesn't work, Report the Post and give the details and one of the mods will look into it.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106074].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author sylviad
              Ken,

              You are absolutely right. I'm getting way too involved in this debate. But you'll have to pardon me for wanting to see fairness, and as many have mentioned in this thread, doing what the OP has detailed is not generally accepted for a number of reasons, ranging from TOS (WF and PLR) to ethics.

              Time for me to move on.

              Sylvia
              Signature
              :: Got a dog? Visit my blog. Dog Talk Weekly
              :: Writing, Audio Transcription Services? - Award-winning Journalist is taking new projects. Warrior Discounts!
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106098].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
            Originally Posted by sylviad View Post

            You're reading into it more than what it is.
            I've contacted the help desk on this issue in the past.

            Your core WSO product must be your product.

            Your bonus materials can be anything at all that you have rights to distribute.

            In addition, it is not at all uncommon for me to receive PLR and MRR products with the line:

            [NO] Can be offered on the Warrior Forum

            And that will pretty much put an end to that.

            Now, as far as the ethics of this, here's my take on it.

            If you have bought the rights to offer someone else's product as a bonus to yours, you've bought the rights.

            If you're a jerk about it, then you're a jerk about it, and people can do whatever they want with the awareness that you're a jerk. But if you bought the rights to include something as a bonus, then you get to include it as a bonus even when the seller doesn't like when and how you do it.
            Signature
            "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106132].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author sylviad
              Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

              I've contacted the help desk on this issue in the past.

              Your core WSO product must be your product.

              Your bonus materials can be anything at all that you have rights to distribute.

              In addition, it is not at all uncommon for me to receive PLR and MRR products with the line:

              [NO] Can be offered on the Warrior Forum

              And that will pretty much put an end to that.

              Now, as far as the ethics of this, here's my take on it.

              If you have bought the rights to offer someone else's product as a bonus to yours, you've bought the rights.

              If you're a jerk about it, then you're a jerk about it, and people can do whatever they want with the awareness that you're a jerk. But if you bought the rights to include something as a bonus, then you get to include it as a bonus even when the seller doesn't like when and how you do it.
              Thank you muchly. Appreciate the 'official' input (ie: helpdesk)

              I guess my point about being ethical is more about the fact he's offering another Warrior's WSO products in another WSO. I'm not disputing the fact that he probably has rights to add the material into another product as a bonus or otherwise wherever and whenever he pleases. It's just about doing so here, where he bought it and most likely unintentionally hurting Chris's WSO (he had to give at least one refund so far).

              Sylvia
              Signature
              :: Got a dog? Visit my blog. Dog Talk Weekly
              :: Writing, Audio Transcription Services? - Award-winning Journalist is taking new projects. Warrior Discounts!
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106163].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                Originally Posted by sylviad View Post

                It's just about doing so here, where he bought it and most likely unintentionally hurting Chris's WSO (he had to give at least one refund so far).
                I've bought master resale rights from a WSO and made it a bonus to my own. However, I was careful to:

                - Add it to a product that cost more than the original WSO
                - Only give personal rights to it as a bonus
                - Link to the original WSO, and point out that it includes resale rights

                I did these things to ensure that I didn't hurt his WSO, and might actually help it.

                It's not about the broad-spectrum behaviour of giving a bonus to your WSO that you bought from another one. It's about the fine-grained behaviour of being a dillhole.
                Signature
                "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106218].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

                  I've bought master resale rights from a WSO and made it a bonus to my own. However, I was careful to:

                  - Add it to a product that cost more than the original WSO
                  - Only give personal rights to it as a bonus
                  - Link to the original WSO, and point out that it includes resale rights

                  I did these things to ensure that I didn't hurt his WSO, and might actually help it.

                  It's not about the broad-spectrum behaviour of giving a bonus to your WSO that you bought from another one. It's about the fine-grained behaviour of being a dillhole.
                  Yeah ... I collect bonus materials that I have the right to distribute and keep them for when I might like to use them. I wouldn't feel comfortable offering them as bonuses if there was a current WSO being run with those products. But everyone has different comfort levels.
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106228].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author peace1
              Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

              I've contacted the help desk on this issue in the past.

              Your core WSO product must be your product.

              Your bonus materials can be anything at all that you have rights to distribute.

              In addition, it is not at all uncommon for me to receive PLR and MRR products with the line:

              [NO] Can be offered on the Warrior Forum

              And that will pretty much put an end to that.

              Now, as far as the ethics of this, here's my take on it.

              If you have bought the rights to offer someone else's product as a bonus to yours, you've bought the rights.

              If you're a jerk about it, then you're a jerk about it, and people can do whatever they want with the awareness that you're a jerk. But if you bought the rights to include something as a bonus, then you get to include it as a bonus even when the seller doesn't like when and how you do it.

              I agree here, it may be annoying to see your WSO offered as a bonus in another WSO. But you did sell PLR rights to it, so everything should be OK.

              The buyer could have kindly asked if it's against your interests to offer your product as a bonus in his own WSO, but he's really not obligated to do that.

              I think it's part of the learning process and in your next launch you will cover this in your product rights and you've propably added that line to the current product by now
              Signature


              "It’s Never Too Late to Create the Life You Want"

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3108858].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    I thought the whole point of the WSOs is that they're not other peoples products..... why can't people just make their own WSOs with their own unique products? is it that hard?

    I can understand people adding bonuses but from other people's WSOs?

    Perhaps even as an unannounced bonus after purchase - I guess the line is blurred and I suppose as long as the buyer gets value and the seller isn't going against any TOS from the PLR there may not be many times when it's a problem.
    Signature

    nothing to see here.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3105288].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Caleb Spilchen
    They can be bonuses I believe. Bonuses are not the actual product.
    Signature

    Canadian Expat Living in Medellin, Colombia

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3105304].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Michael Shook
      I am not sure that the TOS says anything about bonuses. One way or the other.

      As far as coolness goes, doing that rates like a negative -3000K.

      Andy is so right. It is supposed to be your original work, following the letter of the TOS is one thing. Following the spirit is quite another.

      I am thinking it would be good if this person removed the bonuses he got from Chris.
      Signature


      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3105318].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author kimberly Aita
        Originally Posted by JMichaelZ View Post

        I am not sure that the TOS says anything about bonuses. One way or the other.

        As far as coolness goes, doing that rates like a negative -3000K.

        Andy is so right. It is supposed to be your original work, following the letter of the TOS is one thing. Following the spirit is quite another.

        I am thinking it would be good if this person removed the bonuses he got from Chris.
        I agree with this post completely. The least the other warrior could have done was to ask if it would be okay. It in unethical IMHO as long as the original wso is still available. I guess not all of us have ethics or a concern for the next warrior.

        Chris, did you try to pm the other warrior to ask that he discontinue this? Just wondering, maybe it just never occurred to him/her that it might be borderline not right to do.:rolleyes:
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3105692].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author shabit87
      Originally Posted by Caleb Spilchen View Post

      They can be bonuses I believe. Bonuses are not the actual product.

      I'm guessing not everyone is reading the first thread of the post. The guy bought your product and used it as a bonus...not a main product. An incentive to buy his product, that he created which is okay.

      He also used your product with PLR. If you don't want your product to be sold or given away anywhere else, don't sell PLR products. Don't be upset...maybe you could even be flattered. Not only did this guy get your product, but with the permission you gave him he made the most out of it!

      I'd say if this is an issue for you, don't sell any more PLR products on or off the forum. Ensure that your product never becomes someone else's bonus and/or freebie. But really, aren't you just a little flattered??
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106067].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author chrisnegro
        Originally Posted by shabit87 View Post

        I'd say if this is an issue for you, don't sell any more PLR products on or off the forum. Ensure that your product never becomes someone else's bonus and/or freebie. But really, aren't you just a little flattered??
        Who said this is a MAJOR issue. It's not...just a discussion of whether the subtleties is right or wrong giving the TOS of the WSO Section.

        Don't get me wrong...making money in the real world with business owners is a lot more lucrative. It's just the point of it all and a matter of principle....not to mention implications for other marketers.

        Hope this clarifies,

        Chris Negro
        Signature

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106079].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Bojan_Djordjevic
      Originally Posted by Caleb Spilchen View Post

      They can be bonuses I believe. Bonuses are not the actual product.
      Agree with this one, plus it's PLR...
      Signature

      Social media, androids, mobile marketing, PRODUCTIVITY http://www.bojandjordjevic.com http://alphaefficiency.com

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106730].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author jasonmorgan
    from my understanding.....WSO'S SHOULD BE ORIGINAL CONTENT FROM THE WARRIOR.....not PLR from another warrior....even if is under the guise of bonuses.
    Welcome to the real world.

    Seriously, did you think there were really that many people here making 1k a day and selling $7 reports on how to do the same.

    Throwing in more bonus (PLR) content just sweetens the deal.

    I thought the whole point of the WSOs is that they're not other peoples products..... why can't people just make their own WSOs with their own unique products? is it that hard?
    It's not cost effective. It's more efficient to take an existing (PLR) product and rework it.

    And yes, it is that hard for most people to create an original product in a timely manner. Not everybody can sit down and write a 50 page ebook in a day or a week or a month.
    Signature

    I'm all about that bass.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3105392].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author rogerfung
    Suzanne is right. Bonuses don't have to be original.

    Besides it's one thing to have rules, is another to police them.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3105502].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author jasonmorgan
    I agree with this post completely. The least the other warrior could have done was to ask if it would be okay. It in unethical IMHO as long as the original wso is still available. I guess not all of us have ethics or a concern for the next warrior.
    How is it unethical?

    He sold a PLR product as a WSO. Another person bought that PLR product and is using it as bonus content in his WSO.

    Rude, maybe. Sucks for the original author, yes. Unethical, no.
    Signature

    I'm all about that bass.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3105719].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    I had the same issue with people joining my membership site, then turning around and offering to use their membership as a service on a WSO.

    While some don't have a problem with it, I had a big problem with it because it was giving the high probability to take customers away from me, the product and service creator.

    I had to immediately amend my TOS and have the WSO sellers remove my membership from what they offered.

    What's happened to Chris is not only POOR taste it is a form of harming another persons WSO, which is also against the rules. The second that Chris's clients requested a refund because his product was offered for "FREE" in some one else's WSO Chris was harmed.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3105831].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author sylviad
      Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

      ...What's happened to Chris is not only POOR taste it is a form of harming another persons WSO, which is also against the rules. The second that Chris's clients requested a refund because his product was offered for "FREE" in some one else's WSO Chris was harmed.
      Exactly!

      Sylvia
      Signature
      :: Got a dog? Visit my blog. Dog Talk Weekly
      :: Writing, Audio Transcription Services? - Award-winning Journalist is taking new projects. Warrior Discounts!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3105864].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    One more thing to point out,

    Even if Chris' TOS does not forbid offering his product in a WSO that is over ruled because the actions of another seller harmed him and his future ability to sell his product on the WSO Forums. So the rule protects him despite his own TOS.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3105887].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Mohammad Afaq
      I love how everyone is coming up with their own interpretation of rules

      According to the rules:

      1. All WSO's Must Be Something You Created. A Product Of Your Own. (A package of ebooks someone threw together is not considered a product and will be deleted) This is completely self explanatory and not up for debate. If you yourself did not create the product do not post it here.
      This line does not address bonuses whatsoever so I think the best thing to do would be to contact the helpdesk or wait for a moderator to come along this thread and tell the forum what exactly the rules are.

      I think it is unethical, or wrong or amazing or awesome doesn't make a different. It's the mods choice to make, not ours.

      I do however think (personal opinion) that this is alright as you DID NOT specify in your PLR TOS that this kind of behavior isn't allowed and because the WSO Rules don't talk about that subject, your PLR TOS is what can protect you here not the WSO rules and just because your PLR TOS doesn't do the job here, WSO forum rules WON'T protect you.
      Signature

      “The first draft of anything is shit.” ~Ernest Hemingway

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3105930].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Trapped
    From a buyer perspective, if there is anything I learned from this thread is that:

    I should never buy a WSO as soon as it goes out, when I can wait for a bit longer and get it as a bonus + other WSO
    And if that is not a good reason why the "bonuses" should be somehow controlled by the rules of WarriorForum, then so it be, educate me on how to spend less money and get your (1,2,3 people) WSO's for free after paying just a small fee to the fourth WSO that includes these free bonuses, sweet aint it?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106060].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author chrisnegro
      Originally Posted by Trapped View Post

      From a buyer perspective, if there is anything I learned from this thread is that:


      And if that is not a good reason why the "bonuses" should be somehow controlled by the rules of WarriorForum, then so it be, educate me on how to spend less money and get your (1,2,3 people) WSO's for free after paying just a small fee to the fourth WSO that includes these free bonuses, sweet aint it?
      Actually a GREAT point Trapped. Never looked at this this way.

      Great Post !

      Success,

      Chris Negro
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106107].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Sylvia,

    Notice I included the word "unspecified."

    That said, you can specify other products as bonuses, but it comes down to the issue of the apparent intent. If the product itself is the main point, the bonuses are just that - extras.

    As Ken pointed out, this all comes down to judgment calls.


    Paul
    Signature
    .
    Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106159].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author sylviad
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Sylvia,

      Notice I included the word "unspecified."

      That said, you can specify other products as bonuses, but it comes down to the issue of the apparent intent. If the product itself is the main point, the bonuses are just that - extras.

      As Ken pointed out, this all comes down to judgment calls.


      Paul
      Thanks, Paul.

      Still not clear on why the rules omit the bonuses, since they help to sell the main product. But... that's the way it is. At least, for now.

      Sylvia
      Signature
      :: Got a dog? Visit my blog. Dog Talk Weekly
      :: Writing, Audio Transcription Services? - Award-winning Journalist is taking new projects. Warrior Discounts!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106175].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Colin Palfrey
    As I see it:

    1. You sold a PLR product that the customer could sell, giveaway, print out and burn, whatever they want.

    2. They tried to give the PLR away and you threw a fit.

    Solution: Simply do as many other PLR sellers do, and state in your TOS that the product cannot be sold or given away on the Warrior Forum. Dead simple and 100% effective. Do this and if anyone breaks the rules everyone will be on your side, and the offending content will be gone in a flash. Obviously though you cannot backdate a copyright clause, so this is for future use.

    The definition of a bonus is that it is not the product but something that is given away freely when the purchase has been made. I have always thought this a shaky definition but it is what it is. So in regard to giving away your PLR on the Warrior Forum, unless you stipulate that this cannot be done, the bonus is not the content of the WSO but a bonus.

    Please note I am not trying to argue with you and feel a little bad about being on the side I am on, but the point is nobody has done anything against the rules, or that you have not agreed to, albeit unintentionally.

    In the future why not simply state that the buyer cannot use the PLR they buy on the WF, in any way. Simple and effective. I know you don't want a future solution but a way to change the past, but it's too late for that. Live and learn, and honestly I do wish you the best.

    Cheers,
    Colin Palfrey
    Signature

    I write articles and eBooks - PM me for details!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106161].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Sylvia,

    You're confusing ethics with manners.


    Paul
    Signature
    .
    Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106174].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author sylviad
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Sylvia,

      You're confusing ethics with manners.


      Paul
      Yea, I suppose I am.

      Sylvia
      Signature
      :: Got a dog? Visit my blog. Dog Talk Weekly
      :: Writing, Audio Transcription Services? - Award-winning Journalist is taking new projects. Warrior Discounts!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106176].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    I just want to be clear on this now...

    A bonus is "NOT" a part of a WSO even though its offered within the Thread that contains the WSO offer?

    Yes?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106292].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Caleb Spilchen
      Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

      I just want to be clear on this now...

      A bonus is "NOT" a part of a WSO even though its offered within the Thread that contains the WSO offer?

      Yes?
      Well it's NOT the actual offer, it's a bonus TO The offer.

      Caleb
      Signature

      Canadian Expat Living in Medellin, Colombia

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106300].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
        But the bonus is an offer is it not? Your offering a bonus as a part of your offer its an offer within an offer. Is it separate? Does it compliment? Does the bonus enable the other part of the offer to be more effectual.

        The bonus is "betterment" and while this term usually pertains to property I think it applies here very well.


        Originally Posted by Caleb Spilchen View Post

        Well it's NOT the actual offer, it's a bonus TO The offer.

        Caleb
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106330].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

      A bonus is "NOT" a part of a WSO even though its offered within the Thread that contains the WSO offer?

      Yes?
      Sounds right to me, in principle.

      Isn't a "bonus", more or less by definition, something that isn't in the original offer but is given as an "extra" to the offer and must therefore, necessarily, not be part of that offer?
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106387].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
        If I agree with you Alexa for arguments sake, then if its not a part of the offer it has no business being on the WSO.

        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        Sounds right to me, in principle.

        Isn't a "bonus", more or less by definition, something that isn't in the original offer but is given as an "extra" to the offer and must therefore, necessarily, not be part of that offer?
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106402].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

          If I agree with you Alexa for arguments sake, then if its not a part of the offer it has no business being on the WSO.
          Sorry, I don't understand the logic of that at all.

          What would you say about an "unadvertised bonus", then: is that not a "bonus" at all, in your view?
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106409].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
            Ok, Its a Warrior Special "Offer" right? So if the bonus is not a part of the offer then it should not be on the WSO in the first place.

            I am by no means trying to be argumentative and I hope I am not coming off obtuse or offensive about this in any way. = )

            Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

            Sorry, I don't understand the logic of that at all.

            What would you say about an "unadvertised bonus", then: is that not a "bonus" at all, in your view?
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106413].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Well, here's how I see it, though in the grand scheme of things, the only
            thing that matters is how Allen sees it.

            I could type up a one page report "Outline For Article Marketing", sell it as
            a WSO and then include, as a bonus, some killer PLR package that John
            Doe guru put together.

            The WSO sells like wildfire BECAUSE of the bonuses and NOT because
            of the original content.

            Technically, according to everybody defending this practice, this is
            perfectly legit.

            I see it as a total joke.

            Maybe I need a lesson in how to read, but the paragraph posted above.

            1. All WSO's Must Be Something You Created. A Product Of Your Own. (A package of ebooks someone threw together is not considered a product and will be deleted) This is completely self explanatory and not up for debate. If you yourself did not create the product do not post it here.
            ...directly from the WSO rules themselves, makes no distinction between
            the main WSO product and any "bonuses" offered with it.

            If it's not yours...DON'T POST IT HERE.

            And the absolute IRONY and travesty of ALL OF THIS, is that a WSO a
            while back, was COMPLETELY original except for some script that automated
            some process in it and that WSO was taken down.

            The script was NOT the main part of the WSO. It was just a piece of
            software to aid the main WSO material, and it was open source software
            to boot...something the poster could have added as a bonus and gotten
            away with. But because he didn't, the WSO was pulled.

            If this doesn't make you just want to die laughing, comparing to my
            fictional example above, nothing will.

            My opinion, and again, this is just MY opinion and means ABSOLUTELY
            NOTHING...if the WSO is not COMPLETELY YOUR OWN WORK...

            IT SHOULD NOT BE SOLD HERE.

            But like I said, Allen Says makes the rules.

            I just follow them.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106441].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              ...directly from the WSO rules themselves, makes no distinction between the main WSO product and any "bonuses" offered with it.
              This is, of course, completely true.

              To me, it isn't what matters, though, because I start from the viewpoint that if you're prohibiting one thing, then if another thing isn't mentioned specifically, it isn't included within the prohibition: in other words, banning something has to be explicit, not assumed.

              I therefore take the fact that bonuses aren't expressly mentioned to mean that they're not included in the prohibition.

              The other possibility, of course, is that "bonuses" simply didn't occur to the person writing the rule at the time he wrote it, and a potential ambiguity has therefore been unearthed. As will happen when you try to "legislate for" stuff. It happens to parliaments, too, otherwise all those nice lawyers wouldn't have any lightly salted Normandy butter and a glass of claret to go with their bread.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106466].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              Technically, according to everybody defending this practice, this is
              perfectly legit.
              Whenever you start using the word "technically" to describe what you're proposing in a WSO, chances are you'd get in trouble for it.

              I wouldn't consider that legit, and I'd probably report that WSO. It would be clear to me that you were just using some crap report as an excuse to sell someone else's product in the WSO forum. And I'm reasonably sure the staff here would see it that way, too.
              Signature
              "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106515].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Steve Wells
              1. All WSO's Must Be Something You Created. A Product Of Your Own. (A package of ebooks someone threw together is not considered a product and will be deleted) This is completely self explanatory and not up for debate. If you yourself did not create the product do not post it here.
              Well if you really want to get technical, you have to define create.

              No one ever creates anything, they form and make things out of other things. Because technically "to create something" is to bring into existance something that has never existed before.

              Now, if we go by a loose term of create as most people use it, to create could be understood as redoing a PLR product to the point that it looks completely new, and that it doesn not even have the backbone of the original, but the original was used as a template and some elements were modified beyond the point that anyone would recognize it was PLR....

              This by the way, should be allowed, because it is work, less word, but it is lots of work..... and offers value and somthing different than the original PLR product.
              Signature
              Need Custom Graphics Work? - Message Me For A Design Quote!
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106716].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Jo_Shua
            Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

            Sorry, I don't understand the logic of that at all.

            What would you say about an "unadvertised bonus", then: is that not a "bonus" at all, in your view?
            An unadvertised bonus is not part of an offer. In and of itself it is just a freebie... saying thank you. It does not entice the buyer to buy, because it was never mentioned before the credit card swipe.

            Now, if there was a mention within the offer of some SWEET unadvertised bonuses, yet they did not go into deal what the bonuses were... Well, that would be part of the offer. Why?

            There are some that will view those unadvertised 'sweet' bonuses as extra bang for your buck -- adding to the offers value even if you do not specify what that bonus is.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106502].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Jo_Shua View Post

              An unadvertised bonus is not part of an offer. In and of itself it is just a freebie...
              Fair enough: you're putting the "significant differentiation" between the bonus and the unadvertised bonus. I'm putting it between the product and the bonus, I guess. I think a bonus is "just a freebie".
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106524].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Russ,
    A bonus is "NOT" a part of a WSO even though its offered within the Thread that contains the WSO offer?
    This is why we try to have as few hard and fast rules as possible. Things go from the positive spirit and intent to legalisms.

    It comes down to judgment calls. Removing those from the equation and still maintaining a useful environment is impossible.


    Paul
    Signature
    .
    Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106359].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
      Paul I understand completely about the spirit of things and legalism. But when we say it comes down to judgment calls then does that not imply that anything can go as long as it does not obviously break the stated rules, and some ones judgment deems the practice OK?

      It kind of reminds me of the parent that says, do as I say not as I do. This allows the parent to act hypocritically. Not saying any one is being a hypocrite "here" just thinking it through to a logical conclusion in my own mind.

      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Russ,This is why we try to have as few hard and fast rules as possible. Things go from the positive spirit and intent to legalisms.

      It comes down to judgment calls. Removing those from the equation and still maintaining a useful environment is impossible.


      Paul
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106377].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author dave147
    For your offer to qualify as a WSO it has to be your own product. How can you make your WSO offering more appealing? By offering related product bonuses to it!
    Some people have and still do purchase WSOs because of the bonuses that were offered, and there is nothing wrong with that.

    If you sell a PLR product...expect it to resold or given away (if you have allowed that) It doesn't matter if your PLR offer was a WSO or not, it can still be resold (or given away as a bonus even in a WSO). Unless you state otherwise on your license terms.
    Signature

    THESE PRODUCTS FREE @ adsense-expert
    When You Get The 300 Logo Templates Here
    $500.00 in FREE Advertising For You Here

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106366].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Steven Fullman
    It's squabbling like this that'll make Allen decide to go back to the old ways...

    "Ad Slots Available: 3 weeks max. No bumps. Must add value to community."
    Signature

    Not promoting right now

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106379].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
      Originally Posted by Steven Fullman View Post

      It's squabbling like this that'll make Allen decide to go back to the old ways...

      "Ad Slots Available: 3 weeks max. No bumps. Must add value to community."
      And this would be a bad thing how? I especially liked the last part.

      Tina
      Signature
      Discover how to have fabulous, engaging content with
      Fast & Easy Content Creation
      ***Especially if you don't have enough time, money, or just plain HATE writing***
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106607].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    IMO Bonuses are part of the offer and used to entice people to buy and anything that is mentioned as part of the WSO should be original.

    Using the rational "bonuses don't matter" a person could buy every WSO that has PLR and offer it as a bonus. Even if the main product is just a text file saying, "Loopholes Rock!"

    But what do I know?

    -g
    Signature
    Screw You, NameCheap!
    $1 Off NameSilo Domain Coupons:

    SAVEABUCKDOMAINS & DOLLARDOMAINSAVINGS
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106390].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Russ,

    Yes. Any sort of abuse is possible. Trying to prevent all of it, all the time, leads to nasty situations in which no-one has any room to do anything.

    And no, you're not coming across as argumentative or anything else negative. You're making valid points. I don't happen to think they'd lead to a place we want to be, but that doesn't make them any less valid.

    Garrie,
    Using the rational "bonuses don't matter" a person could buy every WSO that has PLR and offer it as a bonus. Even if the main product is just a text file saying, "Loopholes Rock!"
    I addressed this possibility in post 46 of this thread. Last paragraph.


    Paul
    Signature
    .
    Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106422].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Josh Anderson
    My thought is that you sold PLR to the products...

    So the person is doing exactly what you sold them the products for... they are using them in their business.

    If you don't want people to offer your products as bonuses or sell them in other offers...

    Then don't sell PLR or resale rights.

    Other than that it sounds like you don't have much to be complaining about.

    Now, if they were doing nothing but running a WSO selling other people's products and not their own products... then you should simply report the thread and let the mods deal with it because that is not allowed.

    Rights and licenses is another thing...

    Most people who sell in IM don't know anything about the laws that govern such things.

    If you don't want people devaluing your offers... don't sell rights, run an affiliate program.
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106430].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Steven

    See post 46, last paragraph.


    Paul
    Signature
    .
    Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106455].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Barry Unruh
    This thread should be "stickied" and made required reading for anyone planning to sell PLR on the Warrior Forum.

    Nothing to do with "right" or "wrong", but everything about getting an education on what to expect when you sell PLR and why the Terms Of Service need to be carefully listed.

    It might be a good idea to offer a link to your own site when you are selling PLR which explains the TOS in full clarity, too. New Warriors will probably have no idea what those TOS mean, and would appreciate a more complete definition.
    Signature
    Brain Drained...Signature Coming Soon!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106458].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Jo_Shua
    But wait! Order now and I will throw in not one... But, TWO --sharper than cutting edged forged katanas-- ceramic kitchen knives for the price of one.

    Wow. Not one, but two for the price of one. That's like... a bonus. Isn't it? But it's still part of the complete offer.

    When you break down the WSO acronym it stands for Warrior Special Offer. An offer is comprised of a main product and all the bonuses which are publicly thrown in to sweeten the deal and entice the sale.

    If you purchase a book on how to properly create stunning offers... They do not leave out the "bonus" section. How about a book on copywriting? Yeah, bonuses are there, too.

    We are hardwired as marketers to include bonuses in our... What? Yeah, our offer.

    Sure, the WF rules never explicitly state 'bonuses', but nor do the rules explicitly state 'main product' either. Why? Because an offer is the complete package.

    So, I can see why people are confused with this whole ordeal.

    As for myself? I do not see anything wrong with using PLR, MRR, or RR products you have the legal rights for in a WSO bonus section... Granted, the focus is not on the bonuses (as Paul stated). It all comes down to a basis-by-basis judgement call.

    However, I do believe the rules need editing. If the help desk moderators say it's not okay for a main product to be PLR, but it's okay for a bonus to be PLR, then, this needs to be reflected in the rules.

    1. All WSO's Must Be Something You Created. A Product Of Your Own. (A package of ebooks someone threw together is not considered a product and will be deleted) This is completely self explanatory and not up for debate. If you yourself did not create the product do not post it here.
    Looks like if we went strictly by this rule there would be HUNDREDS of upset Warriors, as they would abruptly have their WSOs deleted. But, I'm glad we do not read that strictly into this rule. There are, however, many that do read this rule strictly, and are confused.

    Perhaps adding a couple of words would pacify the majority of everyone's confusion?

    1. All WSO's Main Product Must Be Something You Created. A Product Of Your Own. (A package of ebooks someone threw together is not considered a product and will be deleted) This is completely self explanatory and not up for debate. If you yourself did not create the product do not post it here.
    Until then, I will not criticize nor argue with those that see it the other way... Even if I do believe adding PLR to your WSO is okay.

    I suppose the best advice would be to just add your own protective clause in your product's license (as other's have already suggested).


    Best,
    Joshua C.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106472].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Colin Palfrey
    I think at this point we are arguing the definition of a bonus. You will find legally this is very clearly defined, as it is in all the dictionaries I have read. Why not look it up? I did.

    Here is my understanding of the term: A bonus is not the main offer, but a free additional incentive. Legally (as far as I have seen) to be considered separate.

    Therefore I would not deem the bonus as the offer, but as an additional free incentive. Therefore it is not the offer, but separate. So it is not covered by the original terms, as indicated by several mod's in the past and this thread.

    I personally am not in favor of what has happened and do agree with Caliban's dillhole reference, but that is a completely separate issue.
    Signature

    I write articles and eBooks - PM me for details!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106486].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Dennis,

    I was always of the opinion that non-original PLR products were not allowed to be sold as a WSO under any circumstance. If that's changed, it's news to me.


    Paul
    Signature
    .
    Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106541].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Barry Unruh
    Something doesn't seem right about this? Any thoughts?

    Actually Yes...After being in the shower I have a question for you.

    Why did you not make a different decision as a marketer?

    This could have been just as big of an opportunity as it was "harmful". You could have changed the entire situation by simply posting in his WSO thread:
    "Wow, I'm happy to see you are using one of my PLR packages as a bonus. I am thrilled to see you found great value in the package. Best wishes to the success of your WSO."
    You could have sent the person a PM or an email and said:
    "Congrats on your recent WSO, I see you chose to use one of my PLR packs as a bonus, that is cool. Would you be interested in doing a JV deal to offer my PLR packs to your list? Maybe we could team up on some future projects. I love writing and creating content and you appear to be good at marketing, we could make some additional cash together."
    While the issues remained the same, changing your mindset could have taken this situation from being a "big issue" to suddenly being a marketing opportunity.

    Best wishes..

    Barry

    P.S. It was probably the water getting in my ears which caused this post....
    Signature
    Brain Drained...Signature Coming Soon!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106560].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Josh Anderson
    What bothers me is people who sell resale rights, PLR, master resale etc. and then try and interfere with the marketing of those products by people who legitimately purchased those rights.

    That if you ask me is what is unethical.

    The rule of the WSO forum is very clear:


    1. All WSO's Must Be Something You Created. A Product Of Your Own. (A package of ebooks someone threw together is not considered a product and will be deleted) This is completely self explanatory and not up for debate. If you yourself did not create the product do not post it her
    http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...15-2010-a.html

    Your bonuses... they are completely up to you.

    For YEARS warriors have been offering bonuses that have included items that they obtained rights to from others. This is not something new...

    Lets put this one to rest. Its really not that complicated.

    The only thing in my mind that even nears unethical is interfering with the legitimate and rightful marketing of the product that a seller purchased rights to market. I can't stand it when people sell "rights" and then complain about how their clients try and make money with the rights they purchased.

    The minute you decide to sell rights or PLR to your product you devalue it. If its a digital product you make it worth nothing... that is why people use them as bonuses. They are merely trying to leverage the item they paid for the right to leverage.
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106593].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author sylviad
      Originally Posted by Josh Anderson View Post

      What bothers me is people who sell resale rights, PLR, master resale etc. and then try and interfere with the marketing of those products by people who legitimately purchased those rights.

      That if you ask me is what is unethical.

      The rule of the WSO forum is very clear:

      http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...15-2010-a.html

      Your bonuses... they are completely up to you.

      For YEARS warriors have been offering bonuses that have included items that they obtained rights to from others. This is not something new...

      Lets put this one to rest. Its really not that complicated.

      The only thing in my mind that even nears unethical is interfering with the legitimate and rightful marketing of the product that a seller purchased rights to market. I can't stand it when people sell &quot;rights&quot; and then complain about how their clients try and make money with the rights they purchased.

      The minute you decide to sell rights or PLR to your product you devalue it. If its a digital product you make it worth nothing... that is why people use them as bonuses. They are merely trying to leverage the item they paid for the right to leverage.
      Josh, we're talking about two different things here. It's not about reselling the PLR which you bought with rights to do so. It's about re-offering products from another WSO - and especially about it being PLR - in your own WSO. My understanding is that we're trying to establish the proper rules of the WSO section. That seems to be where people get confused in this debate. Basically, 2 different 'rights of use' issues. Sylvia
      Signature
      :: Got a dog? Visit my blog. Dog Talk Weekly
      :: Writing, Audio Transcription Services? - Award-winning Journalist is taking new projects. Warrior Discounts!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3108748].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author sylviad
        Having read this entire thread from front to back, I'm seeing that this all could be resolved without causing Allen to add a ton of details to his rules about WSO.

        The issue revolves around the confusion about what is considered a WSO. Is it just the main product, or does it include any bonuses added to boost sales of the initial product? By clarifying in the Rules that a WSO does or does not include bonuses would be a simple solution.
        In my view, I always deemed a WSO to be everything the person puts in the ad. But now it appears a WSO is only the main product and not the bonuses.
        Well, now I know. Sylvia
        Signature
        :: Got a dog? Visit my blog. Dog Talk Weekly
        :: Writing, Audio Transcription Services? - Award-winning Journalist is taking new projects. Warrior Discounts!
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3108806].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
          Originally Posted by sylviad View Post

          In my view, I always deemed a WSO to be everything the person puts in the ad. But now it appears a WSO is only the main product and not the bonuses.
          You're being too technical about it. The WSO rules are about a spirit, not a set of technical requirements, and there's no bright-line test. If anyone thinks they can get away with breaking the rules by calling something a "bonus," they will probably find otherwise. It's not that simple and never will be.
          Signature
          "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3109053].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Michael Shook
            IMO one of the issues here is technicalities and the other good taste or manners.

            I do not think it is possible to write a rule that covers every single situation that might come up. And even if it is possible, you would spend more resources enforcing the rules rather than doing anything that would add additional value to the world.

            I think that the use of the PLR in the other WSO is acceptable within the guidelines the way they are written now.

            It has also been my opinion that a community is strengthened when the members watch out for each other. It doesn't seem so much like that was the case in this instance.

            I have no knowledge of the original people involved or either of the WSO's so I don't have anything to say about those things. I do know that I have made a lot more money and have had a lot better time in life when I am engaged in my business constructively rather than destructively.

            As as the OP not putting something in his WSO as terms of use go, no he did not do that. So it seems that the second person has the right to do what they did.

            That's the thing about rights, though, you do not have to exercise them. You can choose to not exercise them. And if you do exercise your rights and by doing that hurts another person or their livelihood in some way, you can definitely stop exercising your rights.

            Or you can choose to keep right on doing what you are doing, perfectly within your rights to do so as far as written rules go.
            Signature


            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3109140].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
              Sylvia -

              I don't think it requires re-defining or changing rules. It requires a seller to establish conditions for his products. As mentioned above - if you state PLR cannot be resold or given as a bonus, that covers it.

              If you are selling PLR with full rights - you no longer have rights to the product after someone buys a copy of it.

              As a seller, you determine what rights you are transferring. If you haven't specified how a product can't be used, not the fault of the forum or its rules.

              "may not be given as a bonus" would cover this issue as well as others and many sellers of PLR have that stipulation along with "cannot be resold".

              I don't see any big problem here - but it may be a lesson for those selling PLR.

              kay
              Signature
              Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

              I'm going to work on being less condescending
              (Condescending means to talk down to people)
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3110060].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Colin Palfrey
    Hi Tina,

    You sell PLR (I looked at your sig, where is my prize) and do you feel offended if you sell unrestricted PLR and it is used as a bonus on a WSO?
    Signature

    I write articles and eBooks - PM me for details!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106625].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
      Originally Posted by Colin Palfrey View Post

      Hi Tina,

      You sell PLR (I looked at your sig, where is my prize) and do you feel offended if you sell unrestricted PLR and it is used as a bonus on a WSO?
      I don't sell the rights to pass on PLR to my products so people can't offer what I do. Therefore, I don't think it would generally matter.

      I do think it would be a rude thing to do if that person still has a running WSO, though.

      Tina
      Signature
      Discover how to have fabulous, engaging content with
      Fast & Easy Content Creation
      ***Especially if you don't have enough time, money, or just plain HATE writing***
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106993].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author alphaxyz
    so in the end the summary of this thread is:

    1. a PLR can devalue
    2. you need to be careful with the TOS to avoid cases like this
    3. if you don't include it in your TOS then you can't/shouldn't complain
    4. if you include it in your TOS then follow the steps necessary to take the PLR down from the offending warrior's bonus
    5. if you allow your PLR to be re-distributed it might have a direct impact on your WSO sales
    6. unless clearly stated in the rule, warrior will have interpretation following his point of view and each of those POV can be valid.
    7. If you're not sure whether what you're planning in your WSO is allowed, open a help desk ticket.

    anything else to add/point out so others (newbs) can benefit from this case?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106753].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by alphaxyz View Post

      anything else to add/point out so others (newbs) can benefit from this case?
      If you're not sure whether what you're planning in your WSO is allowed, open a help desk ticket.
      Signature
      "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106791].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Lance K
        Regardless of the manners (or lack thereof) involved, I can't help but wonder...

        How special is your WARRIOR SPECIAL OFFER if it takes adding a bonus made of PLR material to boost sales???
        Signature
        "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
        ~ Zig Ziglar
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106822].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          What Paul posted is exactly along the lines of what was determined a couple other times when "bonuses" were questioned in the past.

          If you are selling PLR - you are selling one product many times - of course it devalues over time. It may also be a risk of selling PLR in a long-running WSO.

          kay
          Signature
          Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

          I'm going to work on being less condescending
          (Condescending means to talk down to people)
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3106930].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Mike Baker
    The way I have looked at the forum rules, is that if it is NOT stated then it is fine, otherwise there would be rule deeming it NOT to be ok. SO offering a product, whether it was bought with the rights to sell, giveaway, or use as a bonus is not a problem, and unless Allen decides to add a clause to the rules then this will continue to occur here.

    When selling a product and including any kind of rights other than Personal Use Only rights, then you need to cover all your bases. In this instance it may have been a good idea to add:
    [NO] Cannot be added in a WSO while this product is for sale

    This way, the person who purchased the product will have to check the status of the original thread where they bought it to see if it is still for sale. To be on the safe side contacting the original owner beforehand would also be advisable. If not, then they have the right to use it here how they see fit. But you need to cover all bases to cover anything you don't want happening with your product.

    On the point of PLR being used as the main product of a WSO, what I have been told and now understand to be the case, unless you wrote your WSO yourself, then any PLR product CANNOT be used whether it has 1% or 99% of it changed. By doing this, it is NOT your creation, but a re-work of somebody else's. This may be allowed elsewhere and even fine on your own site, but not on WF. I would like to see what Allen has to say about this so it can all be final.
    Signature

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3107009].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Ken Strong
      Originally Posted by mikescos View Post

      The way I have looked at the forum rules, is that if it is NOT stated then it is fine, otherwise there would be rule deeming it NOT to be ok.
      Not necessarily -- as already noted, there was a deliberate effort NOT to create a hugely long list of rules anticipating every possible negative action.

      On the point of PLR being used as the main product of a WSO, what I have been told and now understand to be the case, unless you wrote your WSO yourself, then any PLR product CANNOT be used whether it has 1% or 99% of it changed. By doing this, it is NOT your creation, but a re-work of somebody else's.
      I think a number of people may be confused on this point -- you don't have to personally have written the PLR. It's fine to hire someone to write it for you (or someone to code your plugin, or design your templates, or whatever you're selling), as long as they're writing it specifically for you and you own the exclusive rights to it.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3107028].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Mike Baker
        Originally Posted by Ken Strong View Post

        I think a number of people may be confused on this point -- you don't have to personally have written the PLR. It's fine to hire someone to write it for you (or someone to code your plugin, or design your templates, or whatever you're selling), as long as they're writing it specifically for you and you own the exclusive rights to it.
        Yes, that's correct. I should have worded my statement a little better.
        Signature

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3107041].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author paulie888
          Originally Posted by mikescos View Post

          Yes, that's correct. I should have worded my statement a little better.
          I still don't understand all the hoopla about this. The PLR was offered purely as a bonus by the WSO seller, and that does not contravene any of the WSO rules about unique content. Unless offering the PLR product as a WSO bonus was specifically disallowed within the PLR rights, I really don't see why there is so much fuss being made about this.
          Signature
          >>> Features Jason Fladlien, John S. Rhodes, Justin Brooke, Sean I. Mitchell, Reed Floren and Brad Gosse! <<<
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3107569].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Mike Baker
            Originally Posted by paulie888 View Post

            I still don't understand all the hoopla about this. The PLR was offered purely as a bonus by the WSO seller, and that does not contravene any of the WSO rules about unique content. Unless offering the PLR product as a WSO bonus was specifically disallowed within the PLR rights, I really don't see why there is so much fuss being made about this.
            I think a lot of us feel the same way.
            Signature

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3107578].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author paulie888
              Originally Posted by mikescos View Post

              I think a lot of us feel the same way.
              Hopefully this will be ingrained in the minds of most members now, and we won't see another silly thread started in a few weeks that brings up this very same issue.
              Signature
              >>> Features Jason Fladlien, John S. Rhodes, Justin Brooke, Sean I. Mitchell, Reed Floren and Brad Gosse! <<<
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3107631].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Caleb Spilchen
                Originally Posted by paulie888 View Post

                Hopefully this will be ingrained in the minds of most members now, and we won't see another silly thread started in a few weeks that brings up this very same issue.
                Silly Threads?

                Paul - if you think this one's silly, you musta missed the one by "dante" the other day, he told us all he'll be a football star, and called me a "filthy rich american"...

                ---

                But seriously, I don't see any problem with it being a bonus, just with it being the actual product.

                Caleb
                Signature

                Canadian Expat Living in Medellin, Colombia

                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3109045].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Mohammad Afaq
            Originally Posted by paulie888 View Post

            I still don't understand all the hoopla about this. The PLR was offered purely as a bonus by the WSO seller, and that does not contravene any of the WSO rules about unique content. Unless offering the PLR product as a WSO bonus was specifically disallowed within the PLR rights, I really don't see why there is so much fuss being made about this.
            That's exactly how i feel.
            Signature

            “The first draft of anything is shit.” ~Ernest Hemingway

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3107636].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author alphaxyz
    thanks for the input, CDarklock.
    i put it in the list
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3108540].message }}
  • It really depends on what you stated in your PLR terms. If you said that buyers could use your products however they desire, I don't really see the violation.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3108823].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author jasonmorgan
    This thread is still going?

    I thought this case was closed.

    Are we just arguing to argue now?
    Signature

    I'm all about that bass.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3108843].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author sylviad
      Originally Posted by jasonmorgan View Post

      This thread is still going?

      I thought this case was closed.

      Are we just arguing to argue now?
      Yep. That's right Jason. I'm just an instigator.

      Sylvia
      Signature
      :: Got a dog? Visit my blog. Dog Talk Weekly
      :: Writing, Audio Transcription Services? - Award-winning Journalist is taking new projects. Warrior Discounts!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3108879].message }}
  • {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3108902].message }}

Trending Topics