Making public allegations in this forum

75 replies
Warning: This is meant as a general discussion of an ongoing problem. Do not mention the specific participants/subjects of the original thread, or any other, in this one. That issue is being dealt with separately.

I logged on today to find an email from someone who claimed his ad copy had been stolen and used here in a WSO by another member. He also mentioned that he'd started a thread on it in the main discussion section.

My first move was to look at the evidence, and ask for the one bit he hadn't provided. While I waited, I came here to see the predictable chaos.

While I was reading and replying to that thread, it appears to have been deleted. And appropriately so. Threads like that result in nothing useful. Everyone with an unmet preference or an unsubstantiated claim of wrongdoing crawls into them, and things start to sound like whackjob conspiracy theories.

What's sad is that, in this case, the person making the claim provided strong evidence and has what looks like a legitimate beef. His copy appears to have been lightly "spun" and re-used. And when I say lightly, I mean it. Clearly a swipe. That is being acted on. We do not tolerate that sort of thing here when we're made aware of it and proof is provided.

There were a number of things done in that thread which warranted deleting it. The first is the offer to PM the info to other members. That doesn't allow the person being accused to respond. It wasn't as big an issue this time, as it was actual evidence, rather than the usual empty allegations. I'd have let that pass, personally, except for one thing: The result.

Folks who read that thread will know the threats that were made by another member here against the accused infringer. I would like to warn that person that the issue is still not 100% certain. (If the person having made those threats wishes to know where the potential doubt still lies, PM me.) Even if it were certain, we don't need that kind of nonsense here.

Then there was the usual garbage from people who've watched too many XFiles re-runs.

The most fun one was from a completely anonymous member who said his negative reviews of a product were deleted, and that this indicated that the mods are more interested in keeping fake positive reviews up than in the truth.

I personally have deleted a lot more positive reviews that were posted by shills than I have negative comments about WSOs. A LOT more. The majority of negative comments that are deleted are either too personal (bashing the member, rather than pointing out problems/shortcomings with the product), or come from someone who appears not to have purchased or seen the product.

An unpleasant fact for some people: Completely anonymous members get far less credibility than folks with something to lose if they lie.

Another suggested that we were ignoring similar complaints. That is nonsense. We ignore them when there's no evidence provided, or when it turns out there's no basis to the complaint. I've had people claim that another member stole their copy, only to find that there was nothing to it but a similar product and a standard format salesletter. No copying of any kind. And, in at least one case, the person claiming his copy was stolen was actually the one who did the stealing.

We obviously can't go around deleting people's ads or accounts based on nothing but an allegation. Too many of them turn out to be wrong, or plain old lies.

This time there's actual evidence. Someone copied someone else's ad. I just needed some proof of which used it first. I got that, to a sufficient degree to satisfy myself about who swiped from who.

A third funny comment ran to the effect that this would be proof of how we deal with these situations.

That's logically unsupportable. It's also quite irresponsible of the person who said it. All you can glean from public postings is what's said publicly. There is usually a lot more to it, once you see the whole situation. And often those additional facts lead to a very different conclusion than is presented by the person making the allegation.

Here's a little clue for folks who feel their stuff has been stolen: Tell us about it, using the help desk or a PM, and provide evidence.

Posting in the other guy's thread isn't telling us about it. We cannot read every comment posted on this forum. Those days are long past. And without some sort of evidence, don't even bother. An unsupported allegation isn't going to be acted on. Far too many people make them, and they're almost always lies.

Do not start following someone around the forum, posting about your beef in every thread they start or reply to. That's a quick ticket to bancationland.

Is it possible that some of the unproven allegations are true? Yes, of course it is. But we can't do anything about them. That sucks, but not nearly as much as what would happen if we just started nuking threads or accounts based on any unsupported claim made by any random member.

Flame away, but remember the warning at the top of this post.


Paul
#allegations #forum #making #public
  • Profile picture of the author Tom B
    Banned
    I think there was a second figure, on the grassy knoll, that deleted the negative reviews.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sparhawke
    I fully and vehemently believe it was the fairies.
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    The biggest issue I see Paul with a lot of claims of wrongdoing is how the accuser generally tells the story.

    I have seen cases where people mix an ounce of truth into a pound of lies, in order to make the lies seem more plausible to the reader.

    Then readers focus in on those things they know to be true, as evidence that all of the lies "must" be true also.

    It is always dangerous to jump to conclusions based on a limited view of the bigger picture.

    For example, if you look out my office window, you might assume that I live in a RV park, because the three homes you see out my office window are 5th-wheel RV's.

    But I live in a 16x80 mobile home in a nice mobile home park, one of the nicest neighborhoods of its type in my town.

    Half the picture will always lead you to the wrong conclusion.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
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      I like it - it has a certain ring.

      As for the rest of it - folks, it's not elementary school. You don't have to take sides...because there's always one side you haven't seen yet.

      kay
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  • Profile picture of the author Happy_Balance
    @Thomas and Sparhawke
    Don't Steal!*
    *The top-secret government-funded fairies on the grassy knoll don't like competition.



    Seriously:
    I saw the other thread but didn't read any of it.
    On any forum this big there will be 'scammers and thieves' lurking.
    Don't Steal!
    Do you really expect to make a career out of theft?

    Re: Making public allegations in this forum
    Thanks for the reminder to deal with things properly.
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  • Profile picture of the author Zentech
    But I live in a 16x80 mobile home in a nice mobile home park, one of the nicest neighborhoods of its type in my town.
    Wow, you just admitted you live in a mobile home on Warrior Forum? That takes balls. I'm not making fun of you here, I'm for real. I've seen people torn to shreds for less on forums that weren't about becoming a millionaire.

    You're the man right now.
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by Zentech View Post

      Wow, you just admitted you live in a mobile home on Warrior Forum? That takes balls. I'm not making fun of you here, I'm for real. I've seen people torn to shreds for less on forums that weren't about becoming a millionaire.

      You're the man right now.

      If that truth hurts anyone, it is not me that it hurts.
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  • Profile picture of the author Zentech
    If that truth hurts anyone, it is not me that it hurts.
    You're the double-man now. I love it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sylvia Meier
    I read the thread not mentioned, and knew from the start it wouldn't be around too long. Too many people just jump to conclusions and come out with the guns a blazin' ready to shoot down anyone or anything.

    For the most part, the WF is an awesome place to be. I'm glad threads like the one not mentioned are nuked. They serve no good purpose to the overall moral of the place.

    Happy 2011 everyone!

    Best wishes,
    Sylvia
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Sylvia,
    Too many people just jump to conclusions and come out with the guns a blazin' ready to shoot down anyone or anything.
    Yep. That was clearly demonstrated in that thread.

    The concepts of "having sufficient facts to make an informed decision" or "matching the response to the offense" seem foreign to far too many people these days. And it's not just online.

    Someone made a comment to me about a controversial issue recently in a restaurant, and got quite offended when I told him, "I don't know enough about that to have an opinion." Note that I didn't even disagree with him. I simply didn't state clearly that I agreed. That was all it took for him to paint me as The Enemy.

    This is not all that unusual. Context is a word without meaning to so many people.


    Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author Sylvia Meier
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Sylvia,Yep. That was clearly demonstrated in that thread.

      The concepts of "having sufficient facts to make an informed decision" or "matching the response to the offense" seem foreign to far too many people these days. And it's not just online.

      Someone made a comment to me about a controversial issue recently in a restaurant, and got quite offended when I told him, "I don't know enough about that to have an opinion." Note that I didn't even disagree with him. I simply didn't state clearly that I agreed. That was all it took for him to paint me as The Enemy.

      This is not all that unusual. Context is a word without meaning to so many people.


      Paul
      Too true Paul, too true. The audacity and arrogance some people display, especially online, can be quite astounding.

      Best wishes,
      Sylvia
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      • Profile picture of the author tpw
        Originally Posted by Sylvia Rolfe View Post

        Too true Paul, too true. The audacity and arrogance some people display, especially online, can be quite astounding.

        Best wishes,
        Sylvia

        And offline....
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    • Profile picture of the author davezan
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      The concepts of "having sufficient facts to make an informed decision" or "matching the response to the offense" seem foreign to far too many people these days. And it's not just online.
      Heck, one can get "sufficient facts" to make an "informed decision" and maybe
      still get it wrong, especially if something was overlooked that "can" change the
      whole thing. Online or offline.

      Some folks better look up the so-called law of unintended consequences. Fast.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Dave,
        Heck, one can get "sufficient facts" to make an "informed decision" and maybe still get it wrong, especially if something was overlooked that "can" change the whole thing. Online or offline.
        Yep. The best we can do is to do our best, and try to minimize any potentially harmful side effects.

        None of us gets it right all the time.


        Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author paulie888
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Sylvia,Yep. That was clearly demonstrated in that thread.

      The concepts of "having sufficient facts to make an informed decision" or "matching the response to the offense" seem foreign to far too many people these days. And it's not just online.

      Someone made a comment to me about a controversial issue recently in a restaurant, and got quite offended when I told him, "I don't know enough about that to have an opinion." Note that I didn't even disagree with him. I simply didn't state clearly that I agreed. That was all it took for him to paint me as The Enemy.

      This is not all that unusual. Context is a word without meaning to so many people.


      Paul
      What's even more sad is that many people in this forum don't even utilize all the information available to them, and are especially lazy when they have to dig through a multiple-page thread in order to get all the facts.

      This results in especially hilarious comments in long threads where the newcomers appear a little dazed and confused as to what is actually going on.

      There are also people who automatically take sides because they know the party in question, and they let their emotions get the better of them. This can be especially dangerous as they don't even take the time to become fully aware of the context of the claim or accusation, and they jump to conclusions that are totally invalid because of that.
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  • Profile picture of the author Buildingfutures
    Speaking of, Paul, there is this guy on the forum. I won't mention names here. BUT he did take my idea for a product, and the copy I was going to write, and the bonuses I was going to offer and put them into his WSO.

    What are you going to do about it? He is clearly sapping my brain for information at night, and I demand this issue be taken care of immediately.

    -Sean
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by Buildingfutures View Post

      Speaking of, Paul, there is this guy on the forum. I won't mention names here. BUT he did take my idea for a product, and the copy I was going to write, and the bonuses I was going to offer and put them into his WSO.

      What are you going to do about it? He is clearly sapping my brain for information at night, and I demand this issue be taken care of immediately.

      -Sean

      I will set you up.

      All you need to do is to watch this very attractive lady show you how to make your own tin foil hat:

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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by Buildingfutures View Post

      BUT he did take my idea for a product, and the copy I was going to write, and the bonuses I was going to offer and put them into his WSO.
      Yeah, that was me.

      My bad.

      But I was dead at the time. In fact, I was on the moon. With Steve.
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      • Profile picture of the author Buildingfutures
        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

        Yeah, that was me.

        My bad.

        But I was dead at the time. In fact, I was on the moon. With Steve.
        You dirty, evil rat! Give me back my BRAIN!!

        And tell the dingo I have no babies!
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        • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
          Originally Posted by Buildingfutures View Post

          You dirty, evil rat! Give me back my BRAIN!!
          Um... about that... see, you know how I'm the "zombie" guy?

          Well, they gotta eat.
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          "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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          • Profile picture of the author Buildingfutures
            Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

            Um... about that... see, you know how I'm the "zombie" guy?

            Well, they gotta eat.
            In my world, zombies only eat LEAD!!

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          • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
            I've seen complaints and even had otherwise rational people that are my friends be unhappy with the way certain issues have been handled. I suppose there will always be someone unhappy.

            I would rather have the mods err on the side of caution. It's like our justice system is supposed to be - better to let 9 guilty men go free than to imprison 1 innocent man. If you guys started just nuking things on the say-so of any particular member, you would be bound to nuke more innocent parties than guilty.

            Anyone who disagrees with this policy, just think, what if it was YOU someone was lying about? Or even not lying but just not seeing the whole picture?

            Tina
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    • Profile picture of the author pacesetter007
      Did you go to a comedy school, my stomach is turning because of laughter! Somebody please help me or I'll call 911!
      Originally Posted by Buildingfutures View Post

      Speaking of, Paul, there is this guy on the forum. I won't mention names here. BUT he did take my idea for a product, and the copy I was going to write, and the bonuses I was going to offer and put them into his WSO.

      What are you going to do about it? He is clearly sapping my brain for information at night, and I demand this issue be taken care of immediately.

      -Sean
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      • Profile picture of the author Caleb Spilchen
        Originally Posted by pacesetter007 View Post

        Did you go to a comedy school, my stomach is turning because of laughter! Somebody please help me or I'll call 911!
        How can he take the product "you were going to write", the "copy you were going to write".

        Is Criss Angel on the forum? Someone's a mindfreak...

        Caleb
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        Caleb Spilchen

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        • Profile picture of the author tpw
          Originally Posted by Caleb Spilchen View Post

          How can he take the product "you were going to write", the "copy you were going to write".

          Is Criss Angel on the forum? Someone's a mindfreak...

          Caleb

          I canz dooz it Caleb... Iz haz skillz...
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          • Profile picture of the author Caleb Spilchen
            Originally Posted by tpw View Post

            I canz dooz it Caleb... Iz haz skillz...
            :confused:

            You are one strange man... or is it one strange boy:p
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            Caleb Spilchen

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          • Profile picture of the author Buildingfutures
            Originally Posted by tpw View Post

            I canz dooz it Caleb... Iz haz skillz...
            You has skillz? I don't.

            I eat your brain.

            Your information goes into my brain.

            I haz Skillz now!!

            U jelly?
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    I report spam and Rule #1 violations fairly frequently.

    The way I see it, people break Rule #1 for one of three reasons.

    1. They haven't read the rules and don't participate in the forum enough to be aware of it.

    2. They are familiar with the rule, but don't think their specific case breaks the rule.

    3. They are familiar with the rule, know their post breaks the rule, but then ask that it stay up due to extenuating circumstances.

    There have been very rare cases where posts using reason 3 have been allowed to stay. However, it's usually for some very specific reason and the other party has had a chance to publicly respond/defend themselves.

    Anyway, that's only based on my observation, and I could be way off.

    Oh, and for the record, there are a few memebers who also seem to cry wolf when it comes to Rule #1 violations as well. It can be a tricky thing to make the call on sometimes. But...when in doubt, let the mods sort it out.



    All the best,
    Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author Ouroboros
    The only certain result of such threads is that it diminishes the reputation and credibility of at least some of the participants.

    How hard can it be to simply open a support ticket and handle the matter in a mature manner through the appropriate channels?

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Steve,
    How hard can it be to simply open a support ticket and handle the matter in a mature manner through the appropriate channels?
    It's not that it's difficult. The problem is that the vast majority of those people have nothing to back up their claims, and refuse to accept anything but the other person capitulating to their demands. If they can't get what they want through normal channels, they'll use brute force, lies, and anything else they can to do as much damage as possible to anyone who refuses to do things the way they want them done.

    We are generally not talking about people for whom the socially accepted concept of maturity has any meaning. They are children, and they're going to get their way, even if it means throwing a multi-year hissy fit.


    Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Steve,It's not that it's difficult. The problem is that the vast majority of those people have nothing to back up their claims, and refuse to accept anything but the other person capitulating to their demands. If they can't get what they want through normal channels, they'll use brute force, lies, and anything else they can to do as much damage as possible to anyone who refuses to do things the way they want them done.

      We are generally not talking about people for whom the socially accepted concept of maturity has any meaning. They are children, and they're going to get their way, even if it means throwing a multi-year hissy fit.

      Paul

      Without being specific, today's episode was sparked by impatience more than anything else.

      Just because we can click a link and get our immediate gratification should never imply that people respond as quickly as the Internet does.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Bill,
        Without being specific, today's episode was sparked by impatience more than anything else.
        Some of the replies were, but not the original situation. That was just a person not knowing the right process for handling a very real complaint.

        I saw a situation earlier this week in which someone had reported a post and, within less than an hour, had posted a snide comment about the moderators because it hadn't yet been "handled" the way he thought it should. He's a good guy, and very bright, but he seemed to momentarily fall into the "everything is instant" mindset you mentioned.

        As we say in the trade: Patience is a virtue. If you gotta have a virtue, that's the one to pick.


        Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Zentech
    All you need to do is to watch this very attractive lady show you how to make your own tin foil hat:
    I'd watch her make dirt cakes if it meant watching her...
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  • Profile picture of the author Sloop John B
    Paul, can you please clarify "completely anonymous member"?

    I've been here only a short while but it's not the first time I've heard the suggestion that reviews are manipulated. Thank you for addressing it here.

    Still, I wonder what's the basis of the conjecture, if it's really a sincere worry that some people maintain. Is there common concern that reviews oft don't well measure the product?

    The intersection here between newbie IMers and IMers whose niche is IM makes for a complicated community. I'm fresh meat and am afraid of getting on Ralph Kramden's bus.
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by Sloop John B View Post

      Paul, can you please clarify "completely anonymous member"?
      Usually that means a new registration, clearly false username, and the avatar - if there is one - is clearly not the user's own picture.

      I've been here only a short while but it's not the first time I've heard the suggestion that reviews are manipulated.
      There is no end to that suggestion. Whenever someone is doing something, there will always be a vocal minority complaining that whatever they are doing is wrong and they are cheating and it is some sort of conspiracy. That minority is never right.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    John B,

    An example of a completely anonymous member would be... You. No real name, no website, no nothing attached to the account that gives anyone even a clue who you are.

    As far as people playing games with reviews, that's not nearly as bad now as it was a while back. Basically, idiots would create a batch of accounts under different names and post positive comments in their own threads. It tended to be a small, specific group that did most of it, and enough of them have been banned that the rest have mostly stopped, or gotten sneakier.

    There's actually very little gaming through reviews these days. When we catch it, it's dealt with.

    The conjecture is mostly just conspiracy theory. People see a thing they don't understand and have to assign some meaning to it. The tendency is normal, but part of growing up is supposed to involve accepting that we don't always have enough of the facts to really know what's going on. If you can't accept that, you'll tend to look for "hidden forces" as an explanation for your lack.

    "I don't know, so someone must be keeping information from me. That would only be done for sneaky reasons, so there's a conspiracy!"


    Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      People see a thing they don't understand and have to assign some meaning to it. The tendency is normal, but part of growing up is supposed to involve accepting that we don't always have enough of the facts to really know what's going on.

      What do you mean we have to grow up?

      That's not fair!!!

      It's not; it's not; it's not!!!
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    • Profile picture of the author Happy_Balance
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      John B,

      An example of a completely anonymous member would be... You. No real name, no website, no nothing attached to the account that gives anyone even a clue who you are...
      Me too...

      Paul,
      Some of us have valuable projects which fall under a 'top-secret' NDA. When the time is right you WILL know exactly who I am. :p
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        HB,
        Some of us have valuable projects which fall under a 'top-secret' NDA. When the time is right you WILL know exactly who I am. :p
        I have zero problem with anonymous members, until they become overly negative or otherwise disruptive. If you're not selling anything here, not bashing anyone, and not creating trouble, it's usually all good.


        Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author Sloop John B
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      John B,

      An example of a completely anonymous member would be... You. No real name, no website, no nothing attached to the account that gives anyone even a clue who you are.
      Thanks for clarifying. I thought perhaps there was a forum feature whereby we could post anonymously, or that the person you referenced only had one post.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Tina,
    Or even not lying but just not seeing the whole picture?
    A very common situation. And there are times when having all the facts just tells us that it's something that needs dealt with, but not by us.

    As far as the rest, I am reminded of something said by Anthony De Mello: There is one thing that even God can't do: Please everyone.


    Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Sylvia Meier
    Tina,
    Couldn't have said it better myself. I love the WF and though there have been the odd issues I didn't agree with, I would much rather have them do as you said and err on the side of caution.

    John B,
    Just a suggestion. If you really want to make an impression and get the most out of this wonderful place, lose the anonymity. Add a real picture of yourself, or something that brands you. Use your real name or even your online pen name, add a sig to your own sites. Give us something to put a name to a face so to speak.

    Best wishes,
    Sylvia
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    • Profile picture of the author Sloop John B
      Originally Posted by Sylvia Rolfe View Post

      John B,
      Just a suggestion. If you really want to make an impression and get the most out of this wonderful place, lose the anonymity. Add a real picture of yourself, or something that brands you. Use your real name or even your online pen name, add a sig to your own sites. Give us something to put a name to a face so to speak.

      Best wishes,
      Sylvia
      Thanks, Sylvia. Perhaps I'll add a pic. It might not be much to look at, but it's better than my site at the moment

      Cheers,
      John
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  • Profile picture of the author winebuddy
    I hate it when I miss the party... but I still have a comment.

    I have asked for posts to be deleted on my WSO threads but ONLY when the poster was revealing part or all of the method or technique that I show or teach in the WSO.

    In paid threads, I think that's perfectly ok.
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    birminghamshootingrange.comfor sale |"Knowledge is NOT power... ACTION on Knowledge is power"
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Mike,
      I have asked for posts to be deleted on my WSO threads but ONLY when the poster was revealing part or all of the method or technique that I show or teach in the WSO.
      That depends on how much of the technique is revealed. Mentioning a resource that's used is usually not going to be enough. Outlining the whole process will. In between, it's a judgment call.


      Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author Kevin Riley
      I have a public allegation to make.

      Paul Myers stole my avatar. Understandable, as he wanted to come across as suave, debonair, and drop-dead good looking. Also, he has since returned it to it's rightful position (note his own lack of an avatar as he has not been able to find a replacement of equal good looks), but I still find this action by a mod reprehensible.
      Signature
      Kevin Riley, Kevin Riley Publishing, Osaka, Japan


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      • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
        Banned
        The emperor has spoken. I can now sleep well at night knowing we have someone to let us know what is useful, and what isn't. Otherwise, I don't know how I would get through each day.
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        • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
          Originally Posted by Black Hat Cat View Post

          The emperor has spoken. I can now sleep well at night knowing we have someone to let us know what is useful, and what isn't. Otherwise, I don't know how I would get through each day.
          Sure you do.

          You would just find another thread to add your useless sniping to.

          At least you're consistent.

          All the best,
          Michael
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          "Ich bin en fuego!"
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          • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
            Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

            As are you, sir. One couldn't ask for a better lackey.
            A lackey?

            LOL

            If you think I'm a lackey, then you're either being purposefully ignorant, or just trying to stir things up. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it's ignorance.

            ~M~

            p.s. Congrats on getting a Word Of The Day calendar for Christmas.
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            "Ich bin en fuego!"
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            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
              Michael,
              p.s. Congrats on getting a Word Of The Day calendar for Christmas.
              Now, now. You're confusing grumpy with stupid, and Ken is only one of those things. (Hint: It ain't stupid. Not by a long stretch.)


              Paul
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              • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
                Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                Michael,Now, now. You're confusing grumpy with stupid, and Ken is only one of those things. (Hint: It ain't stupid. Not by a long stretch.)


                Paul
                No, no.

                You may not have seen the thread where I explained how I sign off. You will note I used the ~M~ which means it was intended as a joke. BECAUSE I agree with you about Ken.

                It was my attempt at answering his comment with his own brand of humor. Also, I was very careful to use the word ignorant because I don't think Ken is at all stupid.

                I have also seen Ken make solid contributions, and may have even thanked hom from time to time. WAIT! No...I am not trying to be Ken's lackey, so don't get the wrong idea.

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                "Ich bin en fuego!"
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                • Profile picture of the author tpw
                  Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

                  I have also seen Ken make solid contributions, and may have even thanked hom from time to time. WAIT! No...I am not trying to be Ken's lackey, so don't get the wrong idea.


                  Now I see... Before tonight, I would have never thought of you as being anyone's lackey...

                  But thanks for clearing that up for the rest of us...

                  ~B~
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                  Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
                  Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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                  • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
                    Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises View Post

                    I've seen complaints and even had otherwise rational people that are my friends be unhappy with the way certain issues have been handled. I suppose there will always be someone unhappy.

                    I would rather have the mods err on the side of caution. It's like our justice system is supposed to be - better to let 9 guilty men go free than to imprison 1 innocent man. If you guys started just nuking things on the say-so of any particular member, you would be bound to nuke more innocent parties than guilty.

                    Anyone who disagrees with this policy, just think, what if it was YOU someone was lying about? Or even not lying but just not seeing the whole picture?

                    Tina
                    Tina, it reminds me of some of those old western movies...

                    A crowd of people is peacefully getting drunk at the town saloon, when someone bursts in claiming his horse has been stolen.

                    One drunk hollers, "Let's catch the sumbitch and hang him!" The suggestion is embraced by the crowd until another drunk adds the voice of reason...

                    "We can't do that, this is America, dadgummit. We catch him, give him a fair trial. And THEN we hang him!"

                    :p

                    *This thread is too important to let it languish on page three or worse. Hopefully, I pulled off a relevant bump-and-chuckle.
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                • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                  Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

                  You will note I used the ~M~ which means it was intended as a joke.
                  Mike, that's a stupid idea, and nobody will ever understand it.
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                  "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Cat,
          The emperor has spoken.
          Is there something specific you would like to correct, based on some logical argument? Or are you just sniping for the sake of sniping?


          Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Norb,

        First, I need to correct a very badly mistaken impression you have, and which you've stated here: The number of posts a person has made, or how much money they spend on advertising, has exactly nothing to do with how they're treated when they do something in serious violation of the rules.

        If they have an overall good reputation, that may buy them a bit more leeway for small mistakes. That's normal in any group, I think. But some things simply don't get any wiggle room, no matter who does them.

        Second, when you use words like 'patriot' to mean 'having certain beliefs,' you suggest something negative about those who have different beliefs. Adding the polarizing comments you inserted into the thread creates an 'us against them' situation, when the 'them' you were attacking were, largely, on the same side as you.

        You just didn't wait to get the whole whole picture before you decided who was and was not The Enemy.

        I see you as generally being a positive contributor to the forum. I look at this as an excess of zeal for doing the right thing. What you suggested as a response to the incident was not only excessive, though, it is probably illegal.

        As far as disagreeing... Even I don't agree with everything that's done here. Fortunately, that's never been a requirement. Disagreement, even very strong disagreement, has long been a staple of the Warrior Forum. Some of my favorite people to converse with here are the ones who most often disagree with me.

        When we all agree, all but one of us is redundant.


        Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author ncmedia
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by ncmedia View Post

      Sorry WaFo - I bow out for the day, have now caused a fruity/tranny/public apology thread, this one, and one other so I think this is my Que.

      Norb.
      lol .... all in a day's work, eh?
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  • Profile picture of the author ncmedia
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Colin Theriot
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Context is a word without meaning to so many people.
      Sad but true, and succinctly put. This simple problem is the cause of much, MUCH undue B.S.

      Originally Posted by Sylvia Rolfe View Post

      Too true Paul, too true. The audacity and arrogance some people display, especially online, can be quite astounding.
      Not if you are aware of John Gabriel's Greater Internet ****wad Theory:

      Penny Arcade! - Green Blackboards (And Other Anomalies)

      Originally Posted by Black Hat Cat View Post

      The emperor has spoken. I can now sleep well at night knowing we have someone to let us know what is useful, and what isn't. Otherwise, I don't know how I would get through each day.
      lol.
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      Fair warning: It's possible I'm arguing with you because I have nothing better to do.
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by Colin Theriot View Post

        Not if you are aware of John Gabriel's Greater Internet ****wad Theory:
        I always call that the GIFT. Even have a SFW version on my server:

        Signature
        "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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        • Profile picture of the author Colin Theriot
          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

          I always call that the GIFT. Even have a SFW version on my server:
          I think it's especially funny that you made a SFW version. Considering that it's an expression of why the entire internet is, by definition, NSFW.
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          Fair warning: It's possible I'm arguing with you because I have nothing better to do.
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          • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
            Originally Posted by Colin Theriot View Post

            I think it's especially funny that you made a SFW version.
            Consider it my GIFT to the world.

            (And yes, you were set up for that one.)
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            "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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        • Profile picture of the author tpw
          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

          I always call that the GIFT. Even have a SFW version on my server:


          OMG!! That is so cool...
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          Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
          Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Wells
    There's an old proverb that is still true today, that is applicable to situations like these.

    Pro 18:17 [He that is] first in his own cause [seemeth] just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him.

    The person who comes first with their cause many times seems just, seems to be in the right, but a wise man will not make a judgement ever until he has searched out the truth.

    Many times the one who comes first in his own cause is actually in the wrong, and because it's his OWN cause, his is blinded to the truth of the situation and can only see things from his perspective....
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    • Profile picture of the author pacesetter007
      Originally Posted by Steve Wells View Post

      There's an old proverb that is still true today, that is applicable to situations like these.

      Pro 18:17 [He that is] first in his own cause [seemeth] just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him.

      The person who comes first with their cause many times seems just, seems to be in the right, but a wise man will not make a judgement ever until he has searched out the truth.

      Many times the one who comes first in his own cause is actually in the wrong, and because it's his OWN cause, his is blinded to the truth of the situation and can only see things from his perspective....
      WISDOM RULES! That proverb more than settled the matter! These are nuggets for a detective like Paul!
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Michael,

    Pay no attention when Ken does that. It's his way of saying "Anyone who agrees with the people who think differently than me must be their lackey." It never occurs to him that he's Cat's lackey, by that definition.


    Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      It never occurs to him that he's Cat's lackey, by that definition.


      Paul
      oh no .... the Cat has a lackey. Say it ain't so.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Suzanne,
        oh no .... the Cat has a lackey. Say it ain't so.
        I'd only call Ken that for purposes of this thread. He's quite capable of being snarky (or not) on his own initiative and for his own reasons. Unlike Cat, however, Ken often has useful and intelligent things to contribute.


        Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Caleb Spilchen


    Is that you?

    Caleb
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    Caleb Spilchen

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  • Profile picture of the author ncmedia
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by ncmedia View Post

      Actually been around for a while and is used on some of the most EPIC jokes for our industry and out to define/defy logic:

      OMG ... I thought I had a huge, never seen before find here to swipe.
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by ncmedia View Post

      Actually been around for a while
      Not the minitroll, and not the standard of right-justifying it at the end of a sarcastic post.

      Trollface has, however, been around for about two years I think.

      And it's trollface.

      Not coolface.

      Problem, officer?
      Signature
      "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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  • Profile picture of the author Lisa Gergets
    I've look at this whole thread, read it, not laughed.

    The thread obviously doesn't work as it's supposed to.

    I want a refund.
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