Cookies!

by WhiteChocolate

Posted: 13 years ago 14 replies

INTERNET MARKETING

I have a cookie I want to get on as many people's computers as possible. I send a lot of emails, post videos, comments, blogs, etc.

I know that on sites I control I can place a cookie on visitor's computers. My question to the warriors is this: Is there a way via email or the other methods above to spread this cookie?

Thanks in advance for your responses.

#cookies

tpw 13 years ago

Nope.

Cookies only get placed when people are browsing a site.

Maybe you could do a HTML email and load an iframe, just so that you can drop a cookie, but that is the only way I can imagine.
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- WhiteChocolate 13 years ago
  
  TPW,
  
  thanks so much for taking the time to respond to my post!
  
  Originally Posted by tpw
  
  Maybe you could do a HTML email and load an iframe, just so that you can drop a cookie, but that is the only way I can imagine.
  
  The only thing I don't understand is why I would need to "load an iframe" as opposed to just sending an HTML email and embedding the cookie code.
  
  If you have a moment and could enlighten me I would greatly appreciate it.
  
  Thanks again,
  
  WC
  
  Thanks
  
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webapex

13 years ago

Bear in mind that cookie stuffing is one of the dark activities discussions forbidden on this forum, suffice it to say, the operators of another forum are facing like 20 years of jail time for stealing commissions from other ebay affiliates amounting in the millions.

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PhoebeSmellyCat 13 years ago

Rats, I thought the Girl Scouts were here...
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WhiteChocolate

13 years ago

Originally Posted by webapex

Webapex,

Thanks for your reply, the last thing I want to do is anything forbidden by this forum or illegal. The genesis of my post was that I found a software that claims to be able to insert a cookie for affiliate commissions. My idea was not to use it maliciously but rather, let's say I post an article, send an email, etc. with info on an affiliate offer. The person reads it and becomes interested but as a next step, instead of clicking my link, he/she googles it or types in the URL manually. They still learned about the offer from and were referred to it by me, it's just with the cookie I get the commission and without it I don't.

So, the idea of my post was just to figure out, with all these ways that I promote affiliate products: blogs, articles, audio, video, email, etc. can I send the cookie alongside those so that if those people buy I get the commission which I think most would agree is rightfully mine.

Thanks to your insightful feedback; based on it I would like to expand the question to the warriors to not only is this technically feasible but is this legal/ethical as well.

Thanks again,

WC

Thanks
1 reply

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Diane S

13 years ago

Originally Posted by WhiteChocolate

let's say I post an article, send an email, etc. with info on an affiliate offer. The person reads it and becomes interested but as a next step, instead of clicking my link, he/she googles it or types in the URL manually. They still learned about the offer from and were referred to it by me, it's just with the cookie I get the commission and without it I don't.
WC

Hmmmmm........ I am betting a judge or jury would not be swayed by this logic.

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WhiteChocolate

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Diane S

Hmmmmm........ I am betting a judge or jury would not be swayed by this logic.

Can you point me to any law, case, rule, etc. that points to this being illegal or against the affiliate rules?

It seems to me like this one group that someone else mentioned was writing lots of cookies for products they were not promoting and where thereby claiming commissions for things that they did not promote. I can see how that is obviously fraudulent.

Again, I don't want to break rules or laws but to me deploying this kind of cookie properly makes sense. It does not seem to be an illegal or unethical thing if a) the cookie is for what you are promoting and b) delivered directly to your customer/visitor, etc.

I know the warrior forum is filled with people with a lot more experience than me though which is why I have reached out here for guidance.

Thanks in advance for your responses.

Thanks
1 reply

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KEY

13 years ago

Can you point me to any law, case, rule, etc. that points to this being illegal or against the affiliate rules?

sorry (not really) if I sound difficult...but you appear to be
one of 'those' people that just HAVE to try things the lazy
way and go the cookie stuffing route!

it IS illegal! not up to much interpretation when they come
to your door. you even are admitting that you would like to
get your cookie into a browser, and be sneaky about it!

try these links:

eBay Sues High Profile Affiliate for Cookie Stuffing and Fraud - 5 Star Affiliate Blogs

Cookie-Stuffing Affiliate Fraudster Facing 5 Years Jail + 250K Fine - 5 Star Affiliate Blogs

Feds bust creater of popular cookie-stuffing software

still think you have a 'clever' idea? to 'set' a cookie you
need to run either a php or javascript function to 'write'
the cookie. which means that you either have to have
someone visit the site or run an illegal program to force
the insertion.

since the later is out? all you have is to get people to visit
the site...period! anything else will get you in hot hot water.
the only 'safe' trick is to have a review site and call up the
sites that you wish to promote on a 'child' window with no
navigation, or use TPW's idea of calling the site in a frame.
though if the site is running a 'frame-breaker' that will blow
up on you right away. (just have to test it)

with these methods, your 'customer' is cookied and you
have not broken the law as they truly have been to the
site.

in the end I recommend that you stop looking for the fast
and lazy way to IM success and put in some work and EARN
your commission!

KEY (eric)

Thanks
1 reply

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WhiteChocolate

13 years ago

Originally Posted by KEY

sorry (not really) if I sound difficult...but you appear to be one of 'those' people that just HAVE to try things the lazy
way and go the cookie stuffing route!

it IS illegal! not up to much interpretation when they come
to your door. you even are admitting that you would like to
get your cookie into a browser, and be sneaky about it!

still think you have a 'clever' idea? to 'set' a cookie you
need to run either a php or javascript function to 'write'
the cookie. which means that you either have to have
someone visit the site or run an illegal program to force
the insertion.

since the later is out? all you have is to get people to visit
the site...period! anything else will get you in hot hot water.
the only 'safe' trick is to have a review site and call up the
sites that you wish to promote on a 'child' window with no
navigation, or use TPW's idea of calling the site in a frame.
though if the site is running a 'frame-breaker' that will blow
up on you right away. (just have to test it)

with these methods, your 'customer' is cookied and you
have not broken the law as they truly have been to the
site.

in the end I recommend that you stop looking for the fast
and lazy way to IM success and put in some work and EARN
your commission!

KEY (eric)

"Key",

You know it's comments like that that make me and so many others dislike these forums. To me it is akin to people who drive around screaming at people and giving them the finger whereas they would never do that face to face.

The funny thing about it is that if you remove the sophomoric trash talking from your post, we're in agreement. As I stated a number of times before in the thread, my goal is not to do anything illegal or even unethical. As one of the commenters on the link you sent me said:

"#8 George Cozma wrote on September 23, 2008: Cookie stuffing IS NOT illegal, it just has illegal uses. There's a world of difference in between."

So, as an affiliate, I know that if I have a website talking about a product I can legitimately place a cookie on the user's computer so if the customer buys, I'll get the commission.

What I'm asking (I'll reiterate as you clearly did not get it the first time) is if I do the WORK to set up a blog, send emails, create/send videos, etc. promoting a product, can I accompany those with the same cookies?

I find the law usually mirrors common sense and basic logic. In my mind, it stands to reason that if someone learns about a product from a video/article/blog, etc that I post and then purchases it, it is neither unreasonable nor unethical for the cookie to claim my commission. On the contrary, I feel that a rule to prevent this would amount to the company stiffing its hard working affiliate, whose actions clearly directly lead to a sale, out of a commission.

So, like the vast majority of us my intent is not to rip off ebay or anyone else. Rather, it is to use all tools and technologies available to maximize my affiliate revenue. As such, I reach out to intelligent and mature online marketers to explore in a productive and civil manner this delicate line both as pertains to technology and ethics/legality.

Sincerely,

WC

Thanks
1 reply

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KEY

13 years ago

like so many that do this sort of thing, you come
on a forum and ask for validation on something
that is illegal, and try to get people to agree with
your inferential logic.

...do the WORK to set up a blog, send emails, create/send videos, etc. promoting a product, can I accompany those with the same cookies?

a cookie by definition is to store information in/on
a person's browser regarding that person's
visit/experience on the site they are actually visiting!
to have that data stored when they have not in fact
been (virtually) to the site is in fact cookie stuffing.

that that make me and so many others dislike these forums.

so you are basically saying that if people disagree with
your round about logic that cookie stuffing is ok, then you
are going to go off and have a good sulk? YOU asked for
opinion and advice! since you appear to not have any
intention of listening? why have you asked?

if I have a website talking about a product I can legitimately place a cookie on the user's computer

cookies related to your site? yes. other people's sites?
NO you can not! if you have a site place or inject cookie
data for another site? you are cookie stuffing!

let me try another angle...by your logic if I mention any
product in this thread...ALL people in the thread that
eventually buy the product should net me a commission?

the other issue that also shows you lack of understanding
of how affiliate cookies work. in your example? if you
sent and email that recommend product 'x' and did not get
them to actually go to the site and make a purchase? AND
your desired "not cookie stuffing" but "delivering alongside"
cookie was set? this person then goes out to the net
for more information and found a site reviewing said
product? decides to buy and clicks the link on the review
site? bam! the cookie is now overwritten with the new
affiliate ID - the last click wins the commission.

Thanks
1 reply

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WhiteChocolate

13 years ago

Originally Posted by KEY

if you
sent and email that recommend product 'x' and did not get
them to actually go to the site and make a purchase? AND
your desired "not cookie stuffing" but "delivering alongside"
cookie was set? this person then goes out to the net
for more information and found a site reviewing said
product? decides to buy and clicks the link on the review
site? bam! the cookie is now overwritten with the new
affiliate ID - the last click wins the commission.

Key,

Although it still seems you need to get off your computer for a few minutes and get to some anger management classes, this time you actually make some semi-salient points.

Your last example underscores what I see as the fundamental issue and the line between illegal and legal.

Again, I don't claim to know everything but this is the way I see it:

Legal Cookie Stuffing Use Example: Visitor reads article/email, etc. about product X and has cookie placed on their machine for product X. After reading said article, user opens a new tab and types into Google "Product X Coupon code" They do not find a coupon code so they just type productx.com and go buy the product. Affiliate gets a commission whereas without cookie they would not have. Sale was direct result of affiliate promotion. No other affiliate's commission was changed or stolen Again, in my view the use of these types of cookies are totally legal/legit.

Illegal Use of Cookies: After reading the articles you referenced about the people getting into trouble it seems to me that their process is, roughly: Someone visits their site, say free downloads.com. At that site, many cookies for different products are dropped on to the users machine (illegal/unethical cookie use #1). Then, somehow they have these cookies set so that if later, as in Key's example, that user goes to a legit affiliates site, reads a review and clicks on it, somehow their cookie overrides the legitimate affiliate cookie/link thereby stealing the commission (illegal/unethical cookie use #2).

So, that is how I see it and I am looking for feedback on that and techniques to use these cookies in the legit way of example #1. I have looked very carefully at the affiliate rules and do not see anything to prevent doing this but I wanted to get people's opinions.

Key, perhaps you find within yourself the capability to get past the childish platitudes and join in a productive and constructive discussion. If not, I ask you, with all due respect, to shut the **** up.

Thanks

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asmithseo 13 years ago

Casinos don't care.
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- WhiteChocolate 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by asmithseo
  
  Casinos don't care.
  
  Are you talking about online casino affiliate programs or are you just being facetious?
  
  Thanks
  
  1 reply
  
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  asmithseo 13 years ago
  
  Serious as a polar bear eating an Eskimo. Online Casinos don't care where, or how their traffic gets there. Learn how to cloak and the world is your oyster.
  
  Originally Posted by WhiteChocolate
  
  Are you talking about online casino affiliate programs or are you just being facetious?
  
  Thanks
  
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Cookies!

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