What Do You Tell People Who Do It Right But Fail Anyway?

55 replies
I teach a bunch of people, and sometimes there'll be someone who emails me like this morning...

A girl was distraught because she read another customer's comments on my blog stating how they'd been up less than a week and already made several sales.

This person writing had been up for 2 months and - nothing.

If the two business models are identical and both people are doing it right, how do you explain to one person WHY others are converting and they're not?

I've seen this happen like when I'm reviewing a product and others follow along - I'll make sales and some of them won't. I have no explanation. And it's not a "list" thing.

tiff
#fail #people
  • Profile picture of the author King Shiloh
    Banned
    Originally Posted by TiffanyDow View Post

    I teach a bunch of people, and sometimes there'll be someone who emails me like this morning...

    A girl was distraught because she read another customer's comments on my blog stating how they'd been up less than a week and already made several sales.

    This person writing had been up for 2 months and - nothing.

    If the two business models are identical and both people are doing it right, how do you explain to one person WHY others are converting and they're not?

    I've seen this happen like when I'm reviewing a product and others follow along - I'll make sales and some of them won't. I have no explanation. And it's not a "list" thing.

    tiff
    Sorry, some days are like that. You might just be in your bad days.
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    • Profile picture of the author cookingdiva
      Tiffany,

      I can understand as I have been that girl's situation I think.

      1. I write my orig articles myself,
      2. I do manual submission and commenting for backlinks.
      3. It is all white hat/clear hat (I do not have know-how or money for it)
      4. I write 1000-2000 word posts that are filled with details.

      Where I fail is because I am doing this part time IM and doing by hands, my backlinks grows slower and I have been doing this for 6 months yet I have made very little. I see someone climbing on #1 for keywords with tools and VAs they have, it does make me dis-hearten, as I think google loves links all over, it does not matter how it got there. I am still trying before throwing towel. Worse thing is, even though I have not done anything, my site that has a potential is right now in google dance. *sigh*, I am optimistic though. I wish that other person to be optimistic too, as I am sure it will work out or we have to find other ways.

      I hope there is a room for ethical and right way in IM that might be sustainable.
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  • Profile picture of the author dbarnum
    Hi Tiff,

    I guess I wouldn't see that as a failure. The person took action, and many people don't ever get that far. That's a success!

    The rest takes time, that's all. Just market more, send more leads - send more targeted leads, etc.

    And work on conversion: better more targeted ads / content (articles and press releases, blog posts,etc) , navigation, sales copy, call to action, etc. to keep fine-tuning the site pages.

    It's a process. Sitting around, that's failure. Moving ahead, that's success
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    • Profile picture of the author SingerRinging
      I guess the only way to truly succeed at anything is to be persistent. Life is about up and down, good and bad, left and right. You know how that goes. The key is to keep at it, and keep getting better at it. The failure comes when we give up trying, and stop learning and neglect improvement.
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  • Profile picture of the author matt5409
    sit her down, look her in the eye, pause for effect and then quietly say "it's not your time...".

    it's vague enough to be non-specific yet mysterious enough to still have value!

    in all seriousness though, is it even possible for two plans to be identical, and executed identically?
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    • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
      What Do You Tell People Who Do It Right But Fail Anyway?
      Tiff,

      "Welcome to the club" has always worked for me.

      ~Bill
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    • Profile picture of the author Syamsul Alam
      Originally Posted by matt5409 View Post

      sit her down, look her in the eye, pause for effect and then quietly say "it's not your time...".
      LOL...

      I think, there must be something wrong if some can make money in a week, while others spend 2 months with no money by following the same method.

      Perhaps they take the action in a wrong way, create review with right content but wrong keyword density or wrong title, or create right sales letter with wrong hook or headline.

      You must state that there is nothing certain in IM. For better results, everyone need testing and tracking.
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  • Profile picture of the author stormdore
    LOL!!!! As an "up and coming," this topic was interesting to me. Yes... much of it has to do with skills and marketing, but you can't ignore dumb luck!

    Are they pricing the same? I know there are some people who are willing to low ball a price to get their first clients. Maybe that was the case? If not, I agree with Matt... it's not her time.

    Terri
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by TiffanyDow View Post

    If the two business models are identical and both people are doing it right, how do you explain to one person WHY others are converting and they're not?
    Well, first, you find out why.

    Let's say you've got two people with identical designs on their blogs and comparable writing talents, targeting long-tail keywords and ranking on page 1 of Google.

    Alice is ranking for "buy useed kodak zi8 digital camera." (With the typo.)

    Bob is ranking for "newborn baby foot massage instructions."

    Why isn't Bob making any sales?!

    Let's look at something else. Imagine that they're using different keywords.

    Alice is selling a $500 product which is readily available elsewhere at $200.

    Bob is selling a $50 product which is not readily available at any price.

    Why isn't Alice making any sales?

    There's a reason your client isn't making any sales. The two business models are not identical. There is something different between them.

    Now, there is always a point where you just have to throw up your hands and admit you don't know what it is. But the problem is somewhere in what your client is doing.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnHuizinga
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      Well, first, you find out why.
      If you have stats, look at the stats. If you don't, get stats installed or switch to an article directory/support plan that allows stats.

      Is there traffic at all? Are the titles compelling enough?

      Are the articles being viewed but clickthroughs aren't coming? Try adding more leading/enticing language to get people to click the link.

      Are they getting to the landing page and not following through? Split test different landing pages.

      Are they clicking through but not buying? Choose a different product.

      Or maybe it's just the wrong niche...


      Test. Analyse. Tweak. Repeat.


      EDIT: This forum is full of advice for people with this problem. Here's an example I ran across shortly after making this post:
      http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post3131659
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    • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
      Exactly what I was going to write (well, at least, similar thought process).

      For as much as we'd like to think two business models are EXACTLY identical, that really can't be the case because of all the other variables involved, like CDarklock had mentioned.

      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      Well, first, you find out why.

      Let's say you've got two people with identical designs on their blogs and comparable writing talents, targeting long-tail keywords and ranking on page 1 of Google.

      Alice is ranking for "buy useed kodak zi8 digital camera." (With the typo.)

      Bob is ranking for "newborn baby foot massage instructions."

      Why isn't Bob making any sales?!

      Let's look at something else. Imagine that they're using different keywords.

      Alice is selling a $500 product which is readily available elsewhere at $200.

      Bob is selling a $50 product which is not readily available at any price.

      Why isn't Alice making any sales?

      There's a reason your client isn't making any sales. The two business models are not identical. There is something different between them.

      Now, there is always a point where you just have to throw up your hands and admit you don't know what it is. But the problem is somewhere in what your client is doing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
    Originally Posted by TiffanyDow View Post

    I teach a bunch of people, and sometimes there'll be someone who emails me like this morning...

    A girl was distraught because she read another customer's comments on my blog stating how they'd been up less than a week and already made several sales.

    This person writing had been up for 2 months and - nothing.

    If the two business models are identical and both people are doing it right, how do you explain to one person WHY others are converting and they're not?

    I've seen this happen like when I'm reviewing a product and others follow along - I'll make sales and some of them won't. I have no explanation. And it's not a "list" thing.

    tiff
    As a former engineer and coach, here's my thoughts...

    If the process isn't producing a consistent result, then
    you need to look at the VARIABLES involved.

    So, if they're both using the same business model and
    they're doing it right then look at what else is inolved...

    1. There's the market they've chosen - Did they choose
    the same market? Or has one person selected a hotter
    market than the other?

    2. There's the offer being made - Are they both making
    the same offer to the same market or are they making
    completely different offers?

    3. The people involved - This is the biggest variable. Each
    person will have their own skills, strengths and preferences.
    Are they suited to their market and model they've chosen?

    Without getting too pink and fluffy, another aspect to consider
    is each person's belief system - especially at a subconscious
    level.

    Do they both equally expect to succeed online quickly? Have
    they both been successful in their other ventures before?

    Remember that some markets just take a bit longer to crack.

    Failure is often the pre-requisite to success.

    Dedicated to mutual success,

    Shaun
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    • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
      Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

      Without getting too pink and fluffy, another aspect to consider
      is each person's belief system - especially at a subconscious
      level.
      Shaun, without getting too OT, how is it possible to overcome subconscious blockages? And can this really be a decisive factor here??
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      • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
        Originally Posted by ramone_johnny View Post

        Shaun, without getting too OT, how is it possible to overcome subconscious blockages? And can this really be a decisive factor here??
        The results you get in life and business come down to
        the actions you take. Actions are preceded by your
        thoughts and feelings and many of your thoughts are
        driven by your subsconscious mind.

        Unfortunately many people have been programmed with
        negative beliefs from their parents, teachers, etc. E.g.
        being told you're "not good enough" or that "you'll never
        amount to anything."


        Some people are fortunate to have been programmed
        with positive ideas and expectations about their success.

        This is a possible reason why you can have two people
        who are given the same model and instructions but don't
        get the same results.

        One expects to fail and they do. The other expects to
        succeed and they do.

        If someone is consistently not achieving results, despite
        having access to the best tools and information then it's
        time to delve a bit deeper into their beliefs about what
        they believe is possible for them.

        The key is to change the subconscious beliefs and that
        can be done using some useful techniques such as
        affirmations, visualization, hypnosis, etc.

        From the work of Maxwell Maltz it's clear that a person
        can't outperform the image they have for themselves
        in their own mind. (Read Psycho-Cybernetics).

        To change results, you need to change beliefs.

        Dedicated to mutual success,

        Shaun
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  • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
    Hi Tiff,

    I trust you are doing well.

    There are many things as you know that propel sales. It can be tough starting out and trying to pattern after someone. as cliche as it is some people can and some people cannot. What would you say to a person who is struggling? Well the truth Tiff.

    People don't all fit in one cookie cutter if we did we would all be rich by doing what one successful marketer does. right? So it is an individual issue.

    The best thing I would advise someone is to try something else. Not everyone could sell a vacuum cleaner. Yet vacuum cleaners have made some very wealthy. The product is the same. The training is the same. But the results are different.

    So. I always tell people find the sweet spot that works for you and ramp it up.

    But having said that EVERYONE including you has gone times without sales. It is a persistence thing.

    Continued success Tiff.
    -Will
    P.S. It is not your job to figure out other people's businesses it is up to them to take the wisdom and tools given and figure it out for themselves. you will drive yourself nuts if you try and figure everyone else's problems as to why they are not flowing in the ebb of sales.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    This is an interesting question actually.

    I have two sites pushing the same product, and whilst one site is on fire, the other one sits there, practically gathering dust. The only difference is design, and content.

    Id be interested in others thoughts on the OP question myself.
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    • Profile picture of the author matt5409
      Originally Posted by ramone_johnny View Post

      The only difference is design, and content.
      that's two pretty huge differences though!
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  • Profile picture of the author Lazy
    If they're doing it right, then the hard work will be rewarded with sales.

    You can do everything right, follow the exact same steps in the same amount of time, but if you're niche is wrong, then you are, in fact, doing it wrong.

    Targeting the right market is crucial, and not doing so is asking to fail
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  • Profile picture of the author paulie888
    Also, sometimes the law of averages can be very cruel. For example, if something has a response/conversion rate of 2%, this could hold true after many thousands of hits, but over the short term it is possible to run into extreme variations, and as a result pick up a hot streak or a dry spell. I think that this is probably how I'd explain the situation to someone who was discouraged over her lack of results.
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  • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
    And I guess this is a problem. I can glance at someone's site to see if there's any glaring errors but short of opening up a new personal coaching/mentoring service, I can't spend hours digging into it to see what small efforts may have swayed it the opposite direction.

    And personal mentoring isn't something I want to do right now
    tiff
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      I usually end up with a couple of analogies. The person might not feel better about not having the same success, but it sometimes helps get past the "what's wrong with ME" thinking.

      > Look at a horse race. The gates open, and some horses surge right to the front. Some lag for a time before making their big move. Both types of horses win races, and the win is judged at the finish line, not the starting gate.

      > Two people can stand shoulder to shoulder on a fishing pier or at the rail of a fishing boat. They use identical tackle, and the same bait. Some days, one will catch the most and biggest fish while the other gets skunked. There's no real explanation, it just happens. The only certainty is that you won't catch anything if you don't keep a hook in the water...
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  • Profile picture of the author ryanbiddulph
    1 - Comparing yourself to others is a mistake. Each person moves at a difference pace. Each person has a different learning curve. Each person has a different level of experience. Competitive thought is a curse. Don't compare, create.

    2 - Keep failing. Keep succeeding. Each failure is an opportunity to learn from so in essence each moment is a success, after a success, after a success if you decide to take the lesson from each moment.

    RB
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  • Profile picture of the author dfs_dean
    Originally Posted by TiffanyDow View Post

    I teach a bunch of people, and sometimes there'll be someone who emails me like this morning...

    A girl was distraught because she read another customer's comments on my blog stating how they'd been up less than a week and already made several sales.

    This person writing had been up for 2 months and - nothing.

    If the two business models are identical and both people are doing it right, how do you explain to one person WHY others are converting and they're not?

    I've seen this happen like when I'm reviewing a product and others follow along - I'll make sales and some of them won't. I have no explanation. And it's not a "list" thing.

    tiff
    First, I'd have to say that success is not magically found in the business model. Success is in the execution.

    Second, let's look at "doing it right." If you're saying that doing Step 1 before Step 2 is doing it right, there's no allowance for quality.

    This brings me to an issue (not directed at Tiffany or the post) that newbies have to face . . . and I certainly number myself among the newbies. Simply following someone else's step by step process will ultimately be hit or miss at best. One way or another almost every step will have some sort of tripping hazard. Understanding the why's and wherefore's that underlie each step should minimize the obstacles. Without that understanding there will be a greater chance to trip and fall.

    When you fall, and sooner or later you will, you can 1) get up, dust yourself off, and figure out what made you fall and learn a lesson, 2) get up only to try stumbling on to the next step (better be ready to fall again), or, 3) come to the conclusion that because you tripped up on a step the steps must be all wrong so you decide to move on to someone else's step by step process. (Rinse and repeat????)

    Folks, beyond knowing what to do at each step, you need to begin understanding why you do it. Sometimes that only comes from experience and a few falls along the way.

    Fall. Learn. Move forward.

    Peace
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  • Profile picture of the author donhx
    Originally Posted by TiffanyDow View Post

    I teach a bunch of people, and sometimes there'll be someone who emails me like this morning...

    A girl was distraught because she read another customer's comments on my blog stating how they'd been up less than a week and already made several sales.

    This person writing had been up for 2 months and - nothing.

    If the two business models are identical and both people are doing it right, how do you explain to one person WHY others are converting and they're not?

    I've seen this happen like when I'm reviewing a product and others follow along - I'll make sales and some of them won't. I have no explanation. And it's not a "list" thing.

    tiff

    Luck is is part of the mix.

    "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Seneca
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    • Profile picture of the author Dave Rodman
      Banned
      Some people don't get it. You can do the mechanics laid out, but they don't fundementally understand marketing and, if they don't, then it makes it a tough road.

      I see this all the time. You see general advice like Pick a market that has money, find a problem, develop the solution, and sell a product. Well, it's possible to follow those steps and still not be successful.

      I've seen people that have studied IM and approached me in niche markets selling some product they created. They basically plug and chug their copy into an Eban Pagan salesletter. Things like "Learn The Insider Secrets Of Quilting!!!". Here is an example I ran across.

      Stained Glass For Beginners
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    • Profile picture of the author paulie888
      Originally Posted by donhx View Post

      Luck is is part of the mix.

      "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.” - Seneca
      There are so many variables at play here, and unless you actually went through their sites with a fine toothcomb to determine what went wrong, there's no way to really determine why this occurred.

      Since you have already stated that you have no intention of doing personal mentoring, I think the best thing you can do is encourage that person to keep going, and putting up new sites. Ultimately, this is a numbers game, and the more sites you put up and the more practice you get, the better your results will be - so tell that person to quit waiting around for things to happen with that first website, but instead start working on a new one.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
    Everything written above has plenty of merit but
    don't discount the possibility that the person who
    wrote the blog comment about being up less than
    and week and making several sales isn't telling the
    truth.

    Some people have the need to look successful and
    important even when they aren't getting the results
    they claim.

    Sorry to offer the cynical view but there's a lot of that
    going on out there. They thrive on praise even if the
    "facts" generating the praise are false.

    Tsnyder
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    If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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  • Profile picture of the author Apolo
    it happens, it's one of those things..try something else..
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  • Profile picture of the author DeborahDera
    Originally Posted by TiffanyDow View Post

    I teach a bunch of people, and sometimes there'll be someone who emails me like this morning...

    A girl was distraught because she read another customer's comments on my blog stating how they'd been up less than a week and already made several sales.

    This person writing had been up for 2 months and - nothing.

    If the two business models are identical and both people are doing it right, how do you explain to one person WHY others are converting and they're not?

    I've seen this happen like when I'm reviewing a product and others follow along - I'll make sales and some of them won't. I have no explanation. And it's not a "list" thing.

    tiff
    I think you'd have to dig a little bit deeper into the situation. I have a hard time accepting that they're both doing the same thing but one does not see results.

    If their business models were identical and they were both doing it right, they'd both be making sales. One is doing (or not doing) something that the other one is (or is not).
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    • Profile picture of the author Sheryl Polomka
      Originally Posted by DeborahDera View Post

      I think you'd have to dig a little bit deeper into the situation. I have a hard time accepting that they're both doing the same thing but one does not see results.

      If their business models were identical and they were both doing it right, they'd both be making sales. One is doing (or not doing) something that the other one is (or is not).
      There are so many good answers in this thread but this one caught my eye. It is true that you cannot answer the question as to why one is succeeding and the other failing without digging into the situation deeper. You said yourself this is not something you want to do right now (personal mentoring) and nor should you have to.

      I don't know if it is your PLRATM system or another system that you are asking about, but if it is with affiliate sales then CDarklock made a very good point, it could be the product they are promoting, the keywords they are using, the niche, there are just so many factors so their business models might not be exactly the same.

      If it is your PLRATM and they are both creating PLR websites - there will still be so many factors - the design, the home page content and layout, how they are promoting their sites and products - there are just so many factors that come into it.

      I think you just have to tell her to keep trying, perhaps ask how she is promoting her products (if it's PLR) and keep a positive mindset
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      • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
        Originally Posted by Sheryl Polomka View Post

        If it is your PLRATM and they are both creating PLR websites - there will still be so many factors - the design, the home page content and layout, how they are promoting their sites and products - there are just so many factors that come into it.
        It is... she read a comment from another customer who was making sales week 1. My sister made sales week 1, etc. Then this person whose site is great - done correctly - good niche topics - hasn't made a sale in 2 months.

        Then I have to ask if all the promo steps were done. But what's odd is, like with my sister, she just stuck her packs up and didn't do any promo and she's made sales and grown her list. So it's like hit or miss sometimes.
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        • Profile picture of the author Barry Unruh
          Originally Posted by TiffanyDow View Post

          It is... she read a comment from another customer who was making sales week 1. My sister made sales week 1, etc. Then this person whose site is great - done correctly - good niche topics - hasn't made a sale in 2 months.

          Then I have to ask if all the promo steps were done. But what's odd is, like with my sister, she just stuck her packs up and didn't do any promo and she's made sales and grown her list. So it's like hit or miss sometimes.
          This is almost like asking why Joe always seems to find the parking spot near the door at the mall. Why does Jane get the best waitress in the restaurant, every time?

          I know it appears to be numbers, luck, or something else "different", but the reality is she probably expects a different result than everyone else. She writes with her expectation on her mind. She promotes with the expectation on her mind. While the other person just "expected it will work because Tiffany said so", so it does.

          Not trying to sound all "The Secret" or "Law of Attraction", but mental mindset affects what we create, how we write, and our promotions. Simple rewordings created by a different set of feelings while writing can make a tremendous difference.

          Of course, before we start going too far down this path you must eliminate the measurable variables as suggested by Caliban and many others.

          Barry

          P.S. Joe gets the parking spot because he actually looks for it, instead of settling for the one far away. Jane gets the good waitress because she treats waitresses like gold. Some people get sales because they ask differently and people connect with their personality.
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  • Profile picture of the author darkvivi
    the best advice? Keep trying, ONE DAY you'll get your first sale
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  • Profile picture of the author Jay norestin
    Banned
    Originally Posted by TiffanyDow View Post

    I teach a bunch of people, and sometimes there'll be someone who emails me like this morning...

    A girl was distraught because she read another customer's comments on my blog stating how they'd been up less than a week and already made several sales.

    This person writing had been up for 2 months and - nothing.

    If the two business models are identical and both people are doing it right, how do you explain to one person WHY others are converting and they're not?

    I've seen this happen like when I'm reviewing a product and others follow along - I'll make sales and some of them won't. I have no explanation. And it's not a "list" thing.

    tiff

    Tell them affiliate marketing is all about mindset.. and success come from the mind... instead trying to make money.. try to become successful and everything else will follow through!!
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  • Profile picture of the author 2ndopkate
    Tiff,

    While the website may be a fact, I doubt it.

    My first PLR sales came through a WSO.
    My first Ghostwriting came through Odesk and samples of my writing.
    In both those cases I have repeat business.

    Those two things are feeding on each other and firing up my belief in myself.

    I have received more work also via WF posts and Odesk.

    I don't think anyone came through my website. I may have sent them there to look at samples, that's all.

    I understand what Shaun is saying about positive expectations. I believe THAT has a lot to do with how people get a gut feel for whether you will do a good job for them.
    I've been much more positive (since hanging out with a positive mentor) and it's paying off.

    The other think I did was become more vulnerable. I did stuff that frightened me. I stood out there bare to the world...and they still hired me! LOL

    I suspect your person is letting a lot of negative vibes feed into her head. That becomes a vicious circle. The fact is allowing positive thoughts will also turn into quite a whirlwind - if allowed to spin.


    Best, Kater
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Carter
    I would tell them to try a different niche.
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    Sometimes,

    success cannot be predicted since its often trial and error.

    Sometimes, something which looks excellent on paper and you are CONVINCED it will be "da bomb" will flop - while other things all of a sudden bring in money where you did not expect it AT ALL.

    All you can do is keep going. If you don't try...you wont find the "golden egg", so to speak.

    Even using the same business model (example: Article marketing + Clickbank)..some things/products are just going and going, while with another product you might not make one single sale, REGARDLESS what your SEO program/analysis etc.. tells you.
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    • Profile picture of the author kellymccausey
      I do one on one consulting with new internet marketers and I see it all the time. Two people tackle very similar businesses with a similar approach and one thrives while the other sinks.

      Many times the difference in made by who they know and how well they leverage those relationships. Even one well placed 'retweet' or 'like' from the right person can have an impact for a newbie.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andrea Wilson
    Try again! There will be nothing more to say but that. Its not really a bad month for him/her it might not just be her luck. Try to give her ideas on taking her strategy in a different perspective.

    Andrea
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  • Profile picture of the author johnyeo90
    Tell her that: you are so unfortunate! will be a good option to make her feel better?
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    • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
      Originally Posted by johnyeo90 View Post

      Tell her that: you are so unfortunate! will be a good option to make her feel better?
      It may just be me....but....well, not sure if this is a joke or not...but, this approach doesn't seem the most empathetic in relation to what she is going through...

      What does it solve just to say to someone that "you are so unfortunate"?
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      • Profile picture of the author francisj
        I believe there is no real explanation for 100% of the situations but i also believe shaun's point.

        In my opinion 'doing it right' means getting the 'right outcome', whatever that outcome is so if one person is getting the right outcome while the other one isn't I believe 90% of the time that the problem is within the variables used and if you dig enough you will find what's wrong is what i believe.

        All the best,

        f
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      • Profile picture of the author koolphoto
        I think IM is a little like cooking.

        When I was a kid my grandmother was an expert baker. My mother always tried to copy my grandmothers recipe's. My grandmother would tell my mother to add a pinch of salt etc. My mother always wanted to know exactly how much was a pinch. She told my grandmother to measure it and write it down. Well, my grandmother did and still my mother didn't always get it right following the exact amounts. One day my mother decided to experiment with the recipes and started to use them as a guide for her own baking technique. After many failures she saw what worked and then what didn't. So, finally she was able to bake and her cakes tasted good.

        I learned from that.

        I have learned that exactly following a theory or recipe from someone else doesn't always succeed for me. It is when I start playing and experimenting using the original theory as a model do I find success. I have to make someone else's theory my own.

        Then just be consistant.
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  • Profile picture of the author bgmacaw
    It's a game of inches...


    The inches we need are all around us.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Sorrell
    Two words - tough luck

    Here's another two words - that's life
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  • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
    Chances are they're not doing EVERYTHING you tell them to do.

    It's a hole in their mindset I think.

    It takes some people longer to develop the right mindset, while others already have it or are close to it when they start (I sure as heck didn't).

    That's the dilemma... everyone wants to make their own path, which is a recipe for disaster if you don't already know what makes money.
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  • Profile picture of the author esmconcepts
    As many have stated above, there is likely a step in the get-up-and-running part of the site. All steps require hard work, a skip here and there to save time will come back to cause problems.
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  • Keep trying, never give up.
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  • Profile picture of the author bcturner
    There must be something one is doing and the other isn't - they don't have the same incoming links
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  • Profile picture of the author MWGrubb58
    It not always simple to answer. One thing, though, that could be a factor. There could be a small, insignificant thing that is being missed, left out, hidden, etc. In addition, even when people do the right things, other factors are involved.

    It's not a matter of just saying to someone... "It's not your time."

    I would ask, after a client asks you a question... "Do you want to work this out?"

    Then start to backtrack as to what was done and not done. I cannot tell you the amount of times I jumped into something with both feet, and because I was in a hurry, didn't do a bangup job that I normally do... and failed. (I can tell you about something just this past week!)

    The main thing I would say is, "Shall we try again?"
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  • Profile picture of the author Arizona
    Hi Tiffany,

    Great discussion going here! If I may say from my own personal experience, success is a process and it is never the same for anyone.

    I try hard not to compare myself to others who are doing better than me. Although it can be hard sometimes, I try to stay focused on where I am going as well as focused on my own personal triumphs.

    Remember, it is a journey and we must all ride our own journey as it plays out.

    My motto is to continue taking action every day and help as many along the way as I can. Success can be had by anyone if they start by having the right positive mindset and a "no die" attitude. Thank you Tiffany!

    http://JoinJosephineMonty.com
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  • Profile picture of the author bcturner
    Of course - it also just so happens that certain people are looking at any time, and mathematical clustering applies to some people making a purchase and some not.
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  • Profile picture of the author bcturner
    Hey - I like that. Gotta fight for those inches
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    • Profile picture of the author mrdomains
      How long they have been running the sites is irrelevant, traffic numbers is what counts

      If their traffic is low (both sites) then it may just be "probability glitches". You have to get a certain mass rolling before comparisons between 2 identical entities can be made with any value.

      Suppose their expected conversions would be 2%. One site gets 200 visitors and makes 4 sales. The other site gets 200 visitors and makes no sales. This is based on just a 2x the required % (100) to measure conversions which isn´t enough. Theoretically the imbalance could go on ad infinitum.. most oftenly doesn´t though but.. supposing both players are doing the right stuff, have themes that are ok seowise, credible content, same creaditcardinhand type audience, etc etc etc then I would suggest waiting until they have reached traffic at least 1000X the expected conversion rate in traffic before passing judgement on who is getting the upper hand. so if they have a expected conversion of 2% check when they have reached at least 2000 visitors

      The most important factor though is what type of traffic they are getting. This has to be exactly the same to be measurable.. if one is just relying on seo while the other is getting linked visitors then there is no way to know as the links may be on sites that have already primed the visitors into buymode
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