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What Do You Do With People With Unreasonable Expectations?

by Steven Wagenheim
23 replies
I am honestly starting to lose my patience with people in the IM make money
niche as customers.

I'm not going to mention any names but here is the scenario.

2 days ago I got an email from a customer asking me to look over about
a dozen blogs and critique them. I'm sure you can imagine how much time
something like that takes. It's not going to happen quickly.

Today, I get notified by the customer that they are very disappointed
that I haven't gotten back to them yet. It's been a lousy 2 days and I do
have other customers and I get to them in the order in which they contact
me. Also, yesterday was Thanksgiving and I was at my inlaws for 10 hours
Sorry if I took a day off.

Plus, we're talking about a $15 product.

At some point you really have to say, "This isn't worth it" and refund the
person.

I know there are many out there who will not agree with me and are
thinking right now, "What a bad businessman that he doesn't want to
spend 6 hours going over web sites."

If every $15 product I sold demanded the same amount of time, nothing
would get done and I'd be out of business.

My mentoring students who pay me thousands get that kind of time. NOT
people who buy a $15 ebook.

If this makes me a bad person, so be it. But please try to put yourself
in my shoes and see how you'd handle things like this.

The person has threatened to make a big stink about my "lousy" customer
service at one of my threads. I won't say which one.

I am normally a very tolerant person when it comes to things like this but
enough is enough.

You need to draw the line when it comes to what you're selling and how
much support you're going to give for it.

I was actually going to get to those sites today, even though quite
honestly, the cost factor in my time just makes it not worth it. But for
somebody to be that pissed because they didn't get 24 hour turnaround
time over a holiday...well, I'm sorry, but that's asking a lot.

Again, some of you probably think I'm a louse right now. That's fine. But
like I said, put yourself in my shoes.

I don't think you would feel any better about this.
#expectations #people #unreasoable
  • Profile picture of the author Jeff B
    Tell him/her that they paid $15 for the product, and nothing more, and that you do site critiques at $100/hr with a 1 hour minimum.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Just because someone wants me to do something doesn't mean I'm obligated to do it. Steve, sounds like you need to draw the line yourself. Why are you apologizing for having a life during a holiday? That customer is wrong, pure and simple.

      In such a case - if I knew the person or they were a customer - I'd look over ONE blog and they could then correlate the comments to the others.

      If they got pushy - they'd get nothing from me .

      kay
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  • Profile picture of the author midwestmedia
    I agree....offer a review service or individual coaching at a specific rate that would make it worth your while and then cap the number of hours you do this per month to whatever is reasonable for you.

    Jen
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    • Profile picture of the author Jenni Mac
      I personally would just send back their payment and then put a polite note in detailing my charge for reviewing a single website and make them know that if they require further site reviews, then that's what I usually charge per site.

      $15, approx £8 - I wouldn't even lose sleep over losing that or the buyer!
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      • Profile picture of the author Mark Brock
        How dare you take a break to be with your family!!

        I'm outraged!!!!


        Seriously though, I think you're perfectly justified in having your opinion.

        If you really want to keep that $15 then just make that person realise what a bargain they are getting by having you review their blogs.

        Send them a simple email with an honest calculation of what you'd usually get for doing that kind of work. Well into the thousands I'm betting!

        Ask them if they're willing to pay that much to get you to focus ALL your time on their blogs, if not then ask them to allow you time as you have other paying customers that came to you with requests before they did (and subtely mention that these "other customers" just happen to be paying thousands for your help.)

        That should help put them in their place.
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        AWOL

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        • Profile picture of the author Kamran
          Read this joke:
          A doctor and a lawyer were talking at a party. Their conversation was constantly interrupted by people describing their ailments and asking the doctor for free medical advice. After an hour of this, the exasperated doctor asked the lawyer, "What do you do to stop people from asking you for legal advice when you're out of the office?"

          "I give it to them," replied the lawyer, "and then I send them a bill."

          The doctor was shocked, but agreed to give it a try. The next day, still feeling slightly guilty, the doctor prepared the bills. When he went to place them in his mailbox, he found a bill from the lawyer.

          I am sure you get the point. Be like the lawyer in the joke.
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  • Profile picture of the author tomw
    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

    Again, some of you probably think I'm a louse right now.
    Not at all my friend!!!

    Sometime we all have a desperate need for that special "faque!" button. I can imagine that your only CS problem is the fact that you don't press it often enough.

    On a more helpful CS note, why not simply tell the customer in question that you are more than happy to provide ADDITIONAL and COMPLEMENTARY services to the book he purchased at your regular rates - the rates that your other customers pay.

    Simple enough.

    If the customer doesn't understand the difference between your goodwill and a genuine desire to help and professional consultancy well that's really their problem. Their unrealistic expectations as you have already stated.

    If they become aggressive, abusive, threaten all manner of things, or simply become a pain in the @ss, then you can always press the button.

    Also, I think it would take more than a couple of indignant, petulant words by an idiot to destroy your reputation...especially around here.



    Thomas

    (p.s. A day off! I simply don't believe you! )
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  • Profile picture of the author James Schramko
    They need to be slapped
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  • Profile picture of the author Simon_Sezs
    Was that something that you were offering? It seems kind of weird that someone would out of the blue expect you to look over a few sites. What was the $15 book about?
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Simon_Sezs View Post

      Was that something that you were offering? It seems kind of weird that someone would out of the blue expect you to look over a few sites. What was the $15 book about?
      It's not out of the blue. The book has to do with creating sites, but it
      doesn't come with a critique service, not for $15 for the book and $10 a
      month for the membership to get tips on what sites to create.

      However, having said that, I always try to go the extra mile for my
      customers, but when they give me a lot to go over, well, it's not going to
      happen overnight.

      I'm not pissed that they asked me to review the sites. I'm pissed that they
      didn't give me a reasonable amount of time to do so and THEN they start
      to threaten to bad mouth me unless I give them a refund, which I will be
      more than happy to do.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ouroboros
    I can't get over the fact that YOU took a day off!

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Ouroboros View Post

      I can't get over the fact that YOU took a day off!

      Steve

      Trust me, it wasn't easy. I was having severe withdrawal symptoms by
      around 8 PM. I don't know how I made it through the day.
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  • Profile picture of the author Hendry Lee
    Steve, how about creating a forum just for members so they can review web sites for each other instead of going through you?

    Alternatively, offer an upsell for site critique so there is a reason to charge them when they ask for review. Of course, you can still review them as a courtesy if they don't push hard but only for select members.

    Perhaps add in the sales letter to pick one out of 50 customers to review every month. You can add the value of your offering and at the same time make them aware that your time is valuable.

    Just my 0.02c.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jason Moffatt
      Steven,

      As long as you sell items for under $100 in this space you will be continually confronted with this. It's a part of business when dealing with cheap products. You attract cheap clients and consumers.

      It's so much nicer to deal with people who "have money". They seldom bitch, whine, moan or complain, and they just "pay the fee".

      If you want to eliminate or reduce the frequency of this, the easiest thing to do is to "Raise your prices", and raise em high!

      The truth is, with those kind of fees you're not giving yourself much value. And in return, your customers are not going to treat you with much value. If you were charging premium fees, the customer would have much more respect, patience, and understanding.

      And in fact, they feel more privileged to work with a high end guy who knows what he's talking about.

      Bottom line is, cheap services and products usually attract cheap people.

      86 em dude and pay yourself what you are really worth. You will eliminate a ton of headaches.

      And another rule, if anyone is giving you headaches in any fashion, FIRE them. Just give them their money back and say... "See ya" and don't look back.

      Let someone else deal with the high maintenance, grumpy, and impossible customers. Stick with the cool people who have some common sense.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Originally Posted by Jason Moffatt View Post

        Steven,

        As long as you sell items for under $100 in this space you will be continually confronted with this. It's a part of business when dealing with cheap products. You attract cheap clients and consumers.

        It's so much nicer to deal with people who "have money". They seldom bitch, whine, moan or complain, and they just "pay the fee".

        If you want to eliminate or reduce the frequency of this, the easiest thing to do is to "Raise your prices", and raise em high!

        The truth is, with those kind of fees you're not giving yourself much value. And in return, your customers are not going to treat you with much value. If you were charging premium fees, the customer would have much more respect, patience, and understanding.

        And in fact, they feel more privileged to work with a high end guy who knows what he's talking about.

        Bottom line is, cheap services and products usually attract cheap people.

        86 em dude and pay yourself what you are really worth. You will eliminate a ton of headaches.

        And another rule, if anyone is giving you headaches in any fashion, FIRE them. Just give them their money back and say... "See ya" and don't look back.

        Let someone else deal with the high maintenance, grumpy, and impossible customers. Stick with the cool people who have some common sense.

        Thanks Jason. We need to talk. I'm moving towards this model next
        year. One of these days, we'll chat.

        At least I hope so.
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        • Profile picture of the author richdirtygirl
          Hi Steven,

          let me see if I understood this...

          you sold a $15 product to someone teaching how to do websites in certain way...

          one guy/gal/cat bought it and asked you to check on the result of your teachings to see if it was right...

          you said... certainly... like a proud papa...

          Oh dear... it looks like you say "yes" even easier than me...

          and it turned out to be a bunch of job, probably needed too many corrections and the guy emailed you saying he was disappointed for the delay??

          lololol

          sorry... I should behave...

          ok, hun... what did we learn from this?

          this is what i learned:

          once again... clear communication. If you are clear in what you can happily do and the time frames... things are usually easier. Did you tell them you would do all of them and how long it would take?

          boundaries... it seems that the person might think it is your duty, and not that you are just being nice... if someone confuses something like this with me... well, they can say good bye to whatever i was going to do...:p

          the question would be... what are you going to do?

          are you going to correct the communication problem and setup your boundaries?

          RDG:p
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Originally Posted by richdirtygirl View Post

            Hi Steven,

            let me see if I understood this...

            you sold a $15 product to someone teaching how to do websites in certain way...

            one guy/gal/cat bought it and asked you to check on the result of your teachings to see if it was right...

            you said... certainly... like a proud papa...

            Oh dear... it looks like you say "yes" even easier than me...

            and it turned out to be a bunch of job, probably needed too many corrections and the guy emailed you saying he was disappointed for the delay??

            lololol

            sorry... I should behave...

            ok, hun... what did we learn from this?

            this is what i learned:

            once again... clear communication. If you are clear in what you can happily do and the time frames... things are usually easier. Did you tell them you would do all of them and how long it would take?

            boundaries... it seems that the person might think it is your duty, and not that you are just being nice... if someone confuses something like this with me... well, they can say good bye to whatever i was going to do...:p

            the question would be... what are you going to do?

            are you going to correct the communication problem and setup your boundaries?

            RDG:p

            Did I ever tell you I love the way you compose forum post?

            My dear, the person never even gave me a chance to get back to them
            to let them know that I would get to it but would take me some time. They
            just ripped into me for not getting back to them right away.

            FYI, I told the person I was still willing to go over their sites.

            Their reply?

            Just send me my refund.

            So apparently, they wanted my help and THEN were going to ask for a
            refund anyway.

            Glad I saved myself a lot of wasted time.

            As for clear communication, I don't know, call me crazy, but the sale of a
            $15 product with explicit step by step instructions I don't feel needs to
            be clarified that it doesn't come with hours of personal support to go over
            every web site you've ever created in existence.

            I'd have somebody shoot me before I ever asked any product creator for
            that kind of time.
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            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
              Steven,
              So apparently, they wanted my help and THEN were going to ask for a refund anyway.
              And this surprises you?

              Y'all must be new 'round heah.

              There are only two kinds of people I've seen make this kind of request, with or without threats of blackmail. (Only one with them.)

              The very inexperienced, who will benefit from instruction, and the "entitled," who need to be excised from the body commerce like the malevolent growths they are.

              Mind you, I'm not talking about routine CS requests or legitimate questions that arise from confusion about a product. I'm talking about people who, for example, want 6 sites reviewed, and get snarky if it isn't done on their timetable.

              About those people, I say: Joke 'em if they can't fake a tuck.


              Paul
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              • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                Steven,And this surprises you?

                Y'all must be new 'round heah.

                There are only two kinds of people I've seen make this kind of request, with or without threats of blackmail. (Only one with them.)

                The very inexperienced, who will benefit from instruction, and the "entitled," who need to be excised from the body commerce like the malevolent growths they are.

                Mind you, I'm not talking about routine CS requests or legitimate questions that arise from confusion about a product. I'm talking about people who, for example, want 6 sites reviewed, and get snarky if it isn't done on their timetable.

                About those people, I say: Joke 'em if they can't fake a tuck.


                Paul

                But you see, people like this make it all worth while.

                Just received this:

                Hi,

                Thanks for the quick reply.....that's what I thought - just wanted to
                confirm.

                Off to do some purchasing.. Your "product removed" and "product removed"
                are wonderful - thanks.

                In joy,
                <Name Removed>

                You know how many of these I get daily?

                If it wasn't for these people, I'd probably get out of this business. But
                it's stuff like this that makes me feel like I'm doing some good. And yeah,
                I know we're in this to make money, but for me, that can't be what it's
                all about, because I can make money digging ditches. I have to feel like
                I make a difference or this is just another job.

                I don't know if others feel that way, but that's how it is for me.
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                • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                  Steven,
                  But you see, people like this make it all worth while.
                  That's exactly the point. You spend your energy on creating more of those people, not on trying to please the other ones.

                  And yeah... If you're going to teach people something, it adds a lot to the fun of the effort when they do something with it.


                  Paul
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            • Profile picture of the author Terry Hatfield
              How is your customer going to respect your time if you don't?

              Seriously, there is no way in hell you should be reviewing 15 sites for someone for free.

              If I ordered from you and found out you was willing to spend that much time without charging me I would place zero value on the critiques when I got them.

              You need to put it in the book up front so they can see that your are going to charge them a hefty price for a critique.

              If you going to do any for free make them put it on your membership site so all can benefit from the critique. Even then only do a few of those.

              If people want your help make them pay. After all, are they going to pay your electric bill for you at the end of the month when the power gets shut off because you spent all your time helping them?

              Not on your life. The customer really could care less about you and they show that by demanding so much from you for free.

              Make them pay.

              If I was selling a make money online product then the customer would have to apply for new credit cards to be able to afford my product. Why? Because I value my time and you should too.

              Raise your prices on your products and keep raising the prices.

              You are in this to make money right? Because if you are in this business for ego and wanting to be liked, well my friend you are in the wrong business.

              Even Microsoft only gives you one free service call when you buy their operating systems after that they charge you. Start charging them for your time.

              Even the people who keep sending you emails wanting free questions answered. Tell them after the second email they have to pay for email support. Even better put it in your book so they know they have to pay ahead of time.

              Sheesh,

              Terry
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  • Profile picture of the author Kate Carpenter
    Having been a high school teacher, high-level customer service specialist and, now among other things, a producer of livestock & produce, I can tell you there will always be the people that want more and something for nothing, not to mention having their hand held throughout the process. They particularly will try to take advantage of the 'little' guy--as if your business depends on them.

    That being said, you may want to, now, place a disclaimer or something along that line, on your sales page or order form that states exactly what support you will offer. As for this individual, I agree with the "I'll review one blog (or whatever) for free" line of thought. Anything more is abusive to you!

    Think about businesses in the non-cyber world...an attorney, for example does NOTHING for 'free', unless it's the initial consultation, nor does the serviceman that comes to fix your phone, washer, or whatever. Why, simply because you are a sole proprietor should you share your experise for free?

    Do not feel bad, do not be intimidated by this person's threats. Do you really think they could cause significant damage to your reputation...probably not and most probably will end up looking like a fool themself!

    Chin up!
    Kate
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Steven,
      The person has threatened to make a big stink about my "lousy" customer service at one of my threads. I won't say which one.
      Let him.

      Once someone sticks out the blackmail threats, I'm cool with them rotting in IM Hell. Let him go and tell people he's an unrealistic and abusive buttmunch, and that he'll blackmail merchants in order to get what he hasn't paid for.

      Then quote his email in the thread where he starts griping. (He's okayed it, as far as I'm concerned, by taking a private stupidity public.) Let people make their own assessments of the merits of the thing.

      While you're waiting, block his PayPal address in your installation of DLGuard. And send it to me via PM, so I can block him, too.

      That won't stop him from ordering, but it will stop him from getting the product. You'll get an email from DL Guard telling you it was blocked, and you just refund the cretin.

      There are words for people like that, but very few of them are appropriate for this type of board.


      Simon,

      I get requests like this all the time... from people whose only interaction with me was to subscribe to my newsletter.

      They go away quickly.


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author Simon_Sezs
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post



        Simon,

        I get requests like this all the time... from people whose only interaction with me was to subscribe to my newsletter.

        They go away quickly.


        Paul
        I understand. I was just making sure that the offer wasn't something that would have Steven committed to doing some legwork.

        You wouldn't believe some of the crap that comes out of my emails. There are plenty of people that don't get it and never get it.

        Alot of this comes from ad copy that makes promises or insinuates promises of making money by example.

        Some of it also comes from products that are general and vague in terms of implementation. In other words, someone reads it and doesn't quite understand and wants to make sure they are on the right track.

        Hate and threat emails step way over the line. I mean, just b/c you create informational products doesn't mean that your customers have you at their beck and call.
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  • Profile picture of the author JPaston
    Trust me, you don't want 'customers' like that. Refund them as fast as you can.

    In my experience customers fall into two camps. The ones who thank you for actually providing the product in the first place, and the ones who, no matter how hard you try, will always find fault.

    Luckily I've found the latter are in the minority. I refund them and hope they go elsewhere.

    Funnily enough they don't. Some of them come back for more. I guess it's because my customer service is so good!
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  • Profile picture of the author Pete223
    Hi Steven,

    "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." Bill Cosby

    Pretty much says it all !
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  • Profile picture of the author Jim Pearson
    Steven;

    Jason Moffatt is correct & right-on...raise your prices and weed out the cheap individuals who just want to take advantage of you.

    Your time is better spent in developing new products and relationships than giving hours to someone who is to cheap to pay your true service cost and who also never will succeed with the information you have to offer.

    Remember you want to qualify & control our clients so they will see and accept you as the true expert that you are..you can't do that when you give away your expertise for $15 and then work with them for hours for free. At that point you gave away all of your expertise and they have no need of paying you more for your services.

    In off-line as well as on-line businesses limiting the access to you is the only way people will want you more and be willing to pay you higher fees for it.

    I hope this was helpful.

    You intro product is only there to get your prospect/client to need more questions answered and need more advice from you. You do this by up selling them more service or products at a much higher price.
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  • Profile picture of the author The Wanderer
    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

    ...
    I know there are many out there who will not agree with me and are
    thinking right now, "What a bad businessman that he doesn't want to
    spend 6 hours going over web sites."
    Huh? Like who??? Honestly, I know more than a few really nice and conscientious people who feel that they personally should sacrifice their time and energy to any selfish twit who demands it-- but no one who thinks anyone else should be required to. Expecting that level of free service from strangers -- and then threatening them when they don't respond on your schedule-- verges on the sociopathic. Please don't waste another second of your time on this person.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Fladlien
    You can eliminate a big portion of this problem if you train your customers to have certain expectations.

    For example, your first autoresponder after they purchase should explain that your time is valuable, and that while you'll help them with short technical aspects related to the product purchase, if they want additional service you'll be glad to offer it to them, and then pitch your service.

    Or, you can get into premium pricing, as Moffatt said. Steven, you're a member of the six figure club, as am I. I don't know about you, but I make too much money to sit around and nitpick with a merchant all day after I buy their product. Oftentimes if I don't get it, I'll pay someone to do it for me, or just move on. My time is too valuable to bother anyone else's valuable time!

    -Jason
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