Dangerous to rely on PayPal

by sam770
120 replies
Guys,
Recently I read more and more that PayPal simply cancel people accounts, sometimes without a good reason
I love PayPal and use it a lot but I feel that its too risky to put all eggs on one basket
Do you guys know of any good alternative for payment solution that support also people from OUTSIDE of the US and WITHOUT the need to open credit card merchant account?
#dangerous #paypal #relay
  • Profile picture of the author Robert Colle
    Paypal is really not a payment processor any one should entire rely on. I use and love it too very much but I cannot count the number of times I have had to pick up and argument with their customer service due t one or another issue with my account.

    I am also very seriously considering other venues but unfortunately up to date there isn't any other payment processor that can rival paypal and that is really very sad.
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    • Profile picture of the author vishalduggal
      Originally Posted by Robert Colle View Post

      Paypal is really not a payment processor any one should entire rely on.
      If PayPal is not an online payment processor then tell me what is it? An online bank?
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    • Profile picture of the author Robbslife1
      Alertpay.com, probably the biggest thing since paypal. Best processor for my business.
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      • Profile picture of the author notrichyet
        I was still hoping that someone could offer some perspective on having used Paypal to accept payment and then moving to another provider. Did you see a significant drop in sales? Or are buyers just switching over to credit cards?

        Thanks!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Syamsul Alam
    even though i never had any problem with paypal, i'll take care more later on...
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    • Profile picture of the author PhoebeSmellyCat
      I had a huge problem with Paypal when it was in its infancy. They actually tried to get money out of the bank account it was linked to. When I contacted them, they froze my account and tried to tell my bank to freeze my account.

      My bank basically told them to shove it and barred their attempts. I think they also told them that they are not licensed as a financial institution and would report their attempts to the FCC or some other government agency with a three letter acronym.

      This was, of course, when they first started. My bank had never even heard of them at that time.

      Things were eventually ironed out and I haven't had any trouble with them since then.

      I now keep an account just for Paypal and never keep more than a few hundred dollars in there.
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      • Profile picture of the author Diane S
        Originally Posted by PhoebeSmellyCat View Post


        I now keep an account just for Paypal and never keep more than a few hundred dollars in there.
        That is a great idea! Speaks to the paranoid side of me. I will plan on doing that the next time I go to the bank.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kate C
        Like with anything else, it is not good to keep all your eggs in one basket. Paypal is good but I have heard of people having problems. No-one knows if paypal made the mistakes or they did. It could be that they broke one of the rules. It would be good to just find out exactly what you need to stay out of trouble. If you do get into trouble, however, it would be helpful if you had money somewhere else so that you can still pay your bills while arguing your case. I happen to like paypal very much.
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        • Profile picture of the author dawny22
          I have recently tried my hand at internet marketing, and partnered up with zip nada zilch as an affiliate (my website is in me sig). I was dubious at first woundering if zip nada ziltch would pay me ect! but they did as soon as i got my first referal. It was all going great until paypal limited my account claiming zip nada zilch was a pyramid scam!!

          Stupid idiots i thought, they have been doing business with znz for some ten years and im supposed to belive they dont know who znz are?? RIGHT I WASN'T BORN YESTERDAY!

          Thankfully znz will be using alertpay soon but i have still waisted 6 weeks sorting out website (i will have to change it ect) and paypal won't give me the money that i have worked my butt off for!!!

          So i started to look into paypal and to my horror they have scammed thousands of people i could hardly believe it!! I will provide links so you can all look yourselves.

          PayPal Alternative - Pay Pal Lawsuits, PayPal Complaints & Fraud

          PayPal Sucks Forums

          PayPal - Horror Stories, Lawsuits, PayPal Problems & Information - PayPal Account

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=tQxL7eqAJPE

          Has anyone else had any problems with pay pal if so send an email to the FSA and spread the word all over the internet to stop these scammers in thier tracks

          Thanks and kind regards
          Dawn.

          P.s this whole thing has really upset me i was so excited about making money online and then when it first happend i was overjoyed.... and now this.. i am broken hearted. There is a very real chance that if znz dont include other payment options soon i am going to lose my house me and my little girl will be homeless.... i was relying on this and put my heart and soul into it!


          Report paypal here if you have been a on the receiving end of the biggest internet scam ever which is paypal.

          How to Report a Scam
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  • Profile picture of the author sitecrawler
    Banned
    I think Money Bookers And Alert Pay support people outside from the US. I know that pay pal is the first in the world, but i have the same problem, i just can't rely on them.
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    • Profile picture of the author wtatlas
      I have used Paypal for a long time and have never had any problems with their service. My business is not very complicated, however, and this probably helps.

      It might create even more problems if you have more than one payment processor to deal with.

      Two possible alternatives are Google Checkout and Sage Pay. I haven't used either of these myself so can't say how they compare to Paypal but I have heard good reports about them from others.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ken Durham
    I've used them for a long time also, in many ventures, and have yet to have any problem with them, even on large amounts. But I only keep enough in there to work with and transfer the rest....just in case
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  • Profile picture of the author gar
    Posts like these sorta scare me, paypal does not give me problems or haven't yet,but we'll see, i better look for an alternative.
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    • Profile picture of the author donhx
      Originally Posted by gar View Post

      Posts like these sorta scare me, paypal does not give me problems or haven't yet,but we'll see, i better look for an alternative.

      These kinds of posts are designed to scare, and I think it's wrong.

      There are a lot of "urban legends" about PayPal, but very little truth. Some important facts about PayPal:

      1. There were problems with PayPal prior to the time they were purchased by eBay in 2002. However, no one has won a lawsuit against PayPal for their business practices since 2002, and that one dealt with issues from 1999, before they owned it.

      2. There are a lot of "hate PayPal" sites out there. Notice that many of the scare stories there don't have full names, links or date on the posts. Notice too that these are affiliate sites offering expensive PayPal alternatives.

      3. People talk about their PayPal accounts being frozen. There is no reason for PayPal to do that unless they suspect fraud or other irregularity. You hear people say it was "for no reason" but we only hear their side of the story in those cases, and personally, I don't believe them. If people want to stay out of trouble, they need to carefully read the PayPal Terms of Service.

      Keep in mind that PayPal is not that only one who can freeze your financial accounts. Your bank, your credit card merchant account company and the U.S. government can freeze them too. So, PayPal is not alone in this.

      If you have an actual problem with PayPal, you should contact them directly. You can call them and they are very helpful. Most people don't do that--instead they seem to write posts to whine and/or try to scare people.
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      • Profile picture of the author A P Geofrey
        Originally Posted by donhx View Post

        These kinds of posts are designed to scare, and I think it's wrong.

        There are a lot of "urban legends" about PayPal, but very little truth. Some important facts about PayPal:

        1. There were problems with PayPal prior to the time they were purchased by eBay in 2002. However, no one has won a lawsuit against PayPal for their business practices since 2002, and that one dealt with issues from 1999, before they owned it.

        2. There are a lot of "hate PayPal" sites out there. Notice that many of the scare stories there don't have full names, links or date on the posts. Notice too that these are affiliate sites offering expensive PayPal alternatives.

        3. People talk about their PayPal accounts being frozen. There is no reason for PayPal to do that unless they suspect fraud or other irregularity. You hear people say it was "for no reason" but we only hear their side of the story in those cases, and personally, I don't believe them. If people want to stay out of trouble, they need to carefully read the PayPal Terms of Service.

        Keep in mind that PayPal is not that only one who can freeze your financial accounts. Your bank, your credit card merchant account company and the U.S. government can freeze them too. So, PayPal is not alone in this.

        If you have an actual problem with PayPal, you should contact them directly. You can call them and they are very helpful. Most people don't do that--instead they seem to write posts to whine and/or try to scare people.

        You sound like some paypal's lawyer or something. Why do you put so much energy in trying to show that paypal is no monster or does not have any horror stories which are not of the making of the account owner? Are you a paypal representative here on WF?

        I have had my issues with paypal and I am not talking from the sellers side but from the buyers side. My account have been limited more than once and most of the time when I needed my funds the most. And the only reason was because I logged into my account from an IP address which is not the one I often use. That's all and they concluded that there were unusual activities on the account and limited it. I had to go through customer service and do a thousand explanation in order to gain access back to my account. And by the time I did the deal I was trying to conclude was gone and I lost money.

        So I think we should not just dismiss people's stories just because we feel that there is another side of the story and that we have been using paypal for a hundred years without any issue.
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        • Profile picture of the author donhx
          Originally Posted by A P Geofrey View Post

          You sound like some paypal's lawyer or something. Why do you put so much energy in trying to show that paypal is no monster or does not have any horror stories which are not of the making of the account owner? Are you a paypal representative here on WF?

          I have had my issues with paypal and I am not talking from the sellers side but from the buyers side. My account have been limited more than once and most of the time when I needed my funds the most. And the only reason was because I logged into my account from an IP address which is not the one I often use. That's all and they concluded that there were unusual activities on the account and limited it. I had to go through customer service and do a thousand explanation in order to gain access back to my account. And by the time I did the deal I was trying to conclude was gone and I lost money.

          So I think we should not just dismiss people's stories just because we feel that there is another side of the story and that we have been using paypal for a hundred years without any issue.
          Ha! No, I'm not a PayPal lawyer, just a satisfied PayPal customer since 2002.

          My comments were made to bring a little balance to all the fear-mongering and misinformation about PayPal. They have 250 million customers, and things can go wrong, but overall they do a fantastic job, and all the bashing that goes on is severely misguided, IMO.

          Look at your own case as an example. PayPal saw irregular activity and intervened to protect your money. You could have lost far more if thieves had gotten into your account, and PayPal did you a favor by suspending activity briefly when they first suspected fraud. You are complaining because they made you prove your identity, when you should have been thanking them for being vigilant. But that's human nature, isn't it? People would rather whine than be grateful.
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          • Profile picture of the author Dave Rodman
            Banned
            I don't know if everyone can do this, but you can definitely change your settings to automatically do transfers at the end of every day.

            I think paypal is like anything else. The longer/more consistent history you have, the less problems you get. I have a 6 year history with them, a miniscule chargeback rate, and put a lot of money through the system. I have a team of reps that I can call/email if I have issues, so they've taken care of me.

            If you're an IMer with relatively large refund rates (due to the nature of the business), large surges of sales, and sporadic history, then you're going to get extra scrutiny no matter where you go.
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  • Profile picture of the author russells
    It's quite concerning, really. I use Paypal a lot, too, and I couldn't bear my payments being frozen or lost!

    I'm thinking about moving over to SWReg or something.

    ~Russ
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  • Profile picture of the author cooler1
    How long do Paypal usually take to reply to emails? I emailed them 2 days ago regarding a scam and i haven't had a reply yet. They say they aim to get back to you within 24 hours and it's been twice that long already.
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    • Profile picture of the author Cay78
      Hey Cooler....you best bet is to get on the horn and speak a live agent...there are rumors that if you piss off an agent enough, they will freeze you account..not sure if it's true, but I have heard some crazy things with paypal....I should know, I am still waiting on $1k from them!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author GR Marketing
    I know the pain of having money frozen and stolen by Paypal.

    They have closed my two accounts and have over $10,000 of mine under lock and key for 6 months. The whole time they are earning returns on my money with their Money Market program funded by other people's frozen and highjacked funds.

    They are scammers, liars, frauds and cheats and their customer no-service department is a joke.

    I'd suggest everyone seek an alternative payment processor as a backup if you're relying on them alone.

    Be very weary of Paypal as they have a long documented history of running a really bad business: PayPal Alternative - Pay Pal Lawsuits, PayPal Complaints & Fraud

    I use 2checkout and Google Checkout right now and I couldn't be happier with them. The only downside is that you have to wait 2-3 days to get access to your money, but for the peace of mind that comes with dealing with reputable companies who actually care about their users, this is a small pittance to pay.

    I don't have to worry about limitations or funds getting frozen after running a successful campaign.
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    • Profile picture of the author sam770
      Originally Posted by GR Marketing View Post

      I know the pain of having money frozen and stolen by Paypal.

      They have closed my two accounts and have over $10,000 of mine under lock and key for 6 months. The whole time they are earning returns on my money with their Money Market program funded by other people's frozen and highjacked funds.

      They are scammers, liars, frauds and cheats and their customer no-service department is a joke.

      I'd suggest everyone seek an alternative payment processor as a backup if you're relying on them alone.

      Be very weary of Paypal as they have a long documented history of running a really bad business: PayPal Alternative - Pay Pal Lawsuits, PayPal Complaints & Fraud

      I use 2checkout and Google Checkout right now and I couldn't be happier with them. The only downside is that you have to wait 2-3 days to get access to your money, but for the peace of mind that comes with dealing with reputable companies who actually care about their users, this is a small pittance to pay.

      I don't have to worry about limitations or funds getting frozen after running a successful campaign.

      first of all, google checkout support only people from the us and the uk, nowhere else
      secondly, you never hear horoble stories about google checkout or 2checkout?
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      • Profile picture of the author Alfredo Carrion
        I've been with PayPal from a long time and never had any issue with them. Yes, they get a little "paranoid" sometimes, but it's their job to keep the place clean. I' m sure they themselves have their own horror stories about fraudulent activities and money laundering.

        With that said, I don't rely on them 100%.

        Here's a thread with another point of view:

        http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...-not-rant.html
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        • Profile picture of the author Silas Hart
          Originally Posted by Alfredocoach View Post

          I've been with PayPal from a long time and never had any issue with them. Yes, they get a little "paranoid" sometimes, but it's their job to keep the place clean. I' m sure they themselves have their own horror stories about fraudulent activities and money laundering.

          With that said, I don't rely on them 100%.

          Here's a thread with another point of view:

          http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...-not-rant.html
          ...except for the fact that most of those "points" are not facts. TecHead seems to make a lot of posts on PayPal, most are pretty funny.

          PayPal does not like Digital Goods in the sense that they do not offer any type of protection for the buyer and the seller. PayPal allows the sale of digital goods because they can not instantly differentiate why a sale was made, for the purchase of a physical item, or for the purchase of an item that can be sent electronically in which there is absolutely no proof of delivery.

          If you took two identical accounts and one was selling eBooks, another was selling iPod cases. Both made 200 sales a week, bringing in about $800/week. PayPal calls up the sellers and says:

          "Look, you are starting to make a lot of money that is being processed by your PayPal account. Please tell us all of your suppliers, and fax that information to us."

          iPod Case Seller: "okay, I will do that" - he faxes his information in.

          eBook Seller: "Well, I don't have suppliers... my items are eBooks" (at which point, he is likely frozen or limited, but lets just pretend he isn't)

          A month later:

          PayPal calls: Hello, we have noticed that you have a refund rate the exceed 5%, and you currently have 20 disputes, which means that 10% of your 200 sales a week go into dispute - what exactly are you selling?

          iPod Case Seller: "I sell iPod protective cases, there must have been an error with the fitments of the new iPods that just came out"

          eBook Seller: "Well, I sell digital eBooks, people like to buy my stuff and demand a refund right afterwards"

          to an unskilled PayPal rep from Singapore... who do you think is going to be more favored by PayPal?
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    • Profile picture of the author donhx
      Originally Posted by GR Marketing View Post

      I know the pain of having money frozen and stolen by Paypal.

      They have closed my two accounts and have over $10,000 of mine under lock and key for 6 months. The whole time they are earning returns on my money with their Money Market program funded by other people's frozen and highjacked funds.

      They are scammers, liars, frauds and cheats and their customer no-service department is a joke.

      I'd suggest everyone seek an alternative payment processor as a backup if you're relying on them alone.

      Be very weary of Paypal as they have a long documented history of running a really bad business: PayPal Alternative - Pay Pal Lawsuits, PayPal Complaints & Fraud

      I use 2checkout and Google Checkout right now and I couldn't be happier with them. The only downside is that you have to wait 2-3 days to get access to your money, but for the peace of mind that comes with dealing with reputable companies who actually care about their users, this is a small pittance to pay.

      I don't have to worry about limitations or funds getting frozen after running a successful campaign.

      PayPal does not close accounts without reason. That would go against their self-interest in making money themselves, and they don't want to be slammed either.

      There are 2 sides to every story, and PayPal has theirs. If people are following the PayPal TOS there is little reason for them to worry. Even your local bank will suspend your account if they suspect transactions that may be a problem.
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      • Profile picture of the author Silas Hart
        Originally Posted by donhx View Post

        PayPal does not close accounts without reason. That would go against their self-interest in making money themselves, and they don't want to be slammed either.

        There are 2 sides to every story, and PayPal has theirs. If people are following the PayPal TOS there is little reason for them to worry. Even your local bank will suspend your account if they suspect transactions that may be a problem.
        PayPal tends to close accounts down before actual investigation by a human. So, say someone transfers you $200 from a hijacked account for a digital product you could never really "take back," that account is flagged and frozen, and then so are you by automation. So, you call PayPal up and ask why, they look into it but if they don't feel like looking too hard, they might just tell you to wait 6 months (while they hold your funds) and then try to open another account then.
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        • Profile picture of the author donhx
          Originally Posted by FaJeeb View Post

          PayPal tends to close accounts down before actual investigation by a human. So, say someone transfers you $200 from a hijacked account for a digital product you could never really "take back," that account is flagged and frozen, and then so are you by automation. So, you call PayPal up and ask why, they look into it but if they don't feel like looking too hard, they might just tell you to wait 6 months (while they hold your funds) and then try to open another account then.
          Of course they are going to close your account before a human investigates. They have systems in place that warns of possible fraudulent (or other irregular) activity. What else would you expect? They are in the business of cutting their risk. They have every right to protect themselves since there are so many around the world who are trying to steal.

          PayPal is not going to give anyone an opportunity to remove money in question before they have a chance to investigate. After they are satisfied, by an investigation by a human, that there are no violations, they will release money. I doubt that any go 6 months... I would suggest that most are resolved in days or weeks as this OP says was true in his case.

          No one likes to have an account frozen. But they do not freeze them for no reason. There is always a reason and they want to sort it out before they release funds. That is not unreasonable.
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          • Profile picture of the author jiminic2
            I've never had any problems with paypal, although I will be more cautious after reading your posts. I've even contacted customer service on the phone and got good results.
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          • Profile picture of the author Silas Hart
            Originally Posted by donhx View Post

            Of course they are going to close your account before a human investigates. They have systems in place that warns of possible fraudulent (or other irregular) activity. What else would you expect? They are in the business of cutting their risk. They have every right to protect themselves since there are so many around the world who are trying to steal.

            PayPal is not going to give anyone an opportunity to remove money in question before they have a chance to investigate. After they are satisfied, by an investigation by a human, that there are no violations, they will release money. I doubt that any go 6 months... I would suggest that most are resolved in days or weeks as this OP says was true in his case.

            No one likes to have an account frozen. But they do not freeze them for no reason. There is always a reason and they want to sort it out before they release funds. That is not unreasonable.
            The issue is that accounts are frozen, and then whats done is done, and there is no reason to go back and unfreeze an account. In fact, most do not have the ability to remove the restrictions of an account. Yes, most go the full 180 days.
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      • Profile picture of the author Josh Anderson
        Originally Posted by donhx View Post

        If people are following the PayPal TOS there is little reason for them to worry.
        That is wishful thinking. Unfortunately for those of us who have been around the block a few times we know that cannot be depended upon.

        Three rules of thumb:

        1. Never use paypal for recurring subscription offers. Unless you want to risk loosing your entire residual income in one flinch of a monkey's finger. I have seen internet marketers loose as high as a 30k a month income just "because."

        2. For one time payment offers offer both paypal and credit card options. You'll convert more. PayPal is a great low risk option for one time transactions.

        3. Have a merchant account. In fact have two... so you always have a backup. Don't be cheap. Its your business and its a lot less expensive to pay for a backup than to suddenly find your self without any options or income.
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        • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
          Originally Posted by Josh Anderson View Post

          That is wishful naive thinking. Unfortunately for those of us who have been around the block a few times we know that cannot be depended upon.

          Three rules of thumb:

          1. Never use paypal for recurring subscription offers. Unless you want to risk loosing your entire residual income in one flinch of a monkey's finger. I have seen internet marketers loose as high as a 30k a month income just "because."

          2. For one time payment offers offer both paypal and credit card options. You'll convert more.

          3. Have a merchant account. In fact have two... so you always have a backup. Don't be cheap. Its your business and its a lot less expensive to pay for a backup than to suddenly find your self without any options or income.
          I will just add you can also have a money order option
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        • Profile picture of the author donhx
          Originally Posted by Josh Anderson View Post

          That is wishful thinking. Unfortunately for those of us who have been around the block a few times we know that cannot be depended upon.
          Well, I have had Credit Card Merchant Accounts as early as 1989 and a PayPal account since 2002. After having PayPal for a couple years, I gave up the Merchant Accounts. In the early days you had to get special permission from your bank to be able to accept credit cards for orders you took online. So, I think I have been around the block.

          Over the years, I have seen a lot of Urban Legends and alarmism about PayPal, but questionable facts about actual cases. People talk about how bad PayPal is, but PayPal never has a opportunity to talk about the irregularities or fraud that got people in trouble in the first place.

          Whenever I hear someone has serious problems with PayPal, I wonder what their scam was since I know for sure PayPal is in the business of collecting money, not banning people. Interestingly, people can sue PayPal if they are acting irresponsibly or illegally, but when has anyone ever won a case against them? I did a quick search and see some cases have been filed and only found one they lost, and it related to something that happened before EBay bought PayPal in 2002.

          If PayPal was guilty of all the wrong-doing they are accused of, they would be losing legal cases every day. But they're not. I think some PayPal customers abuse the system, get their account frozen, then play the blame game.

          Also, if you go to the "hate PayPal" sites you will see lots of horror stories without dates and people's names, so there is no substantiation. And you will also see lots of affiliate links to PayPal competitors on such sites too. Many of these sites are just affiliate "review sites" selling products that compete with PayPal, and don't contain useful information, just those old Urban Legends I have mentioned.

          I have stood up for PayPal because I am a satisfied customer. But I don't think they are perfect. After all, they do have about 250 million customers and that's a lot of people to keep happy. But they are a solid company. Just remember, anytime you put your business in the hands of any 3rd party--like Google for rankings or Clickbank for affiliates--you run a risk. PayPal is no different in that regard.
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          • Profile picture of the author Josh Anderson
            Originally Posted by donhx View Post

            Well, I have had Credit Card Merchant Accounts as early as 1989 and a PayPal account since 2002. After having PayPal for a couple years, I gave up the Merchant Accounts. In the early days you had to get special permission from your bank to be able to accept credit cards for orders you took online. So, I think I have been around the block.

            Over the years, I have seen a lot of Urban Legends and alarmism about PayPal, but questionable facts about actual cases. People talk about how bad PayPal is, but PayPal never has a opportunity to talk about the irregularities or fraud that got people in trouble in the first place.
            And that experience qualifies you to make the statement below?

            Originally Posted by donhx View Post

            If people are following the PayPal TOS there is little reason for them to worry.
            Unfortunately what you have written is just not true and yes, a bit naive.

            Here is a quote from PayPal's own terms of service section V 3.

            PayPal, at its sole discretion, reserves the right to close an account at any time for any reason, including but not limited to a violation of this Agreement
            That is in addition to these terms:

            PayPal, at its sole discretion, also reserves the right to limit access to sending money or making withdrawals from an account for any one of the events listed below. If the dispute covers only a specific transaction, we will only limit access to funds related to that particular transaction. If your account access has been limited, you will be notified by e-mail and requested to provide information relevant to your account. PayPal will investigate the matter promptly. If the investigation is in your favor, we will restore access to your account. If the investigation is not in your favor, PayPal may return funds to the sender and restore access to the remainder of your account, continue to limit your account access for up to 180 days as to funds necessary to protect PayPal against the risk of reversals, or may close your account by giving you notice and mailing a check for any funds in your account (minus funds that are in dispute) to the address that you have provided. If you are later determined to be entitled to the funds in dispute, PayPal will make an additional payment of those funds to you. Any of the following events may lead to your account being limited:
            With paypal you are not allowed to create a new account if one is limited and even if they could there is no way for them to transfer active client subscriptions from one account to another:

            No Multiple Accounts. Should you register for more than one Personal Account, PayPal reserves the right to terminate all of your accounts and will restrict you from the system going forward. Users may register and hold one Personal Account and either one Premier or one Business Account.
            Anyone using paypal should do so with the healthy knowledge that they face the possibility of immediate termination or the freezing of their account for extended periods of time even if the are following PayPal's TOS 100%. It can happen for any number of reasons outside of your control.

            People who want to ensure the longevity of their business and reduce the likelihood of interruptions should have available to them a variety of payment processing options in addition to PayPal... just in case.

            By using merchant accounts with certain business automation systems you can ensure that your subscription payments remain intact and you can seamlessly switch from one merchant account to another for processing without any interruption in service.

            PayPal can be a great option for processing one time transactions. It should not however be your only option if at all possible.
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            • Profile picture of the author Nisip
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Josh Anderson View Post

              Anyone using paypal should do so with the healthy knowledge that they face the possibility of immediate termination or the freezing of their account for extended periods of time even if the are following PayPal's TOS 100%. It can happen for any number of reasons outside of your control.
              Exactly.

              The only people who believe that paypal is trustable or their account will not get frozen, are the same people who believe in Santa Claus
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              • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
                Originally Posted by Nisip View Post

                Exactly.

                The only people who believe that paypal is trustable or their account will not get frozen, are the same people who believe in Santa Claus
                I used to read these stories and think Bumkin, then when billing a new client for a few hundred dollars only they just paid using the email i supplied, I received an email from paypal asking for further info as they thought it was fraudulent funds.

                So i sent to them all details, then in their own good time i had an email back saying that they have returned the money to the client, and in effect calling me fraudulent for a genuine business transaction.

                I then needed to re issue the payment as a request and it was paid that way, still waiting for the "I am sorry for calling you a fraud and for indicating you partake in illegal activities" and i guess i will never get an apology for being accused and found guilty by the kangaroo court of something that was incorrect and called wrong at every level.
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                • Profile picture of the author Nisip
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by tryinhere View Post

                  and in effect calling me fraudulent for a genuine business transaction.
                  Paypal total transactions are over 120 billion USD / YEAR, from which more than 5.90% are Paypal profits.

                  However Paypal is extremely cheap when it comes to customer service,
                  which is horrible and they just reply like robots, things that don't make any sense...
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        • Profile picture of the author russjam
          Originally Posted by Josh Anderson View Post

          That is wishful thinking. Unfortunately for those of us who have been around the block a few times we know that cannot be depended upon.

          Three rules of thumb:

          1. Never use paypal for recurring subscription offers. Unless you want to risk loosing your entire residual income in one flinch of a monkey's finger. I have seen internet marketers loose as high as a 30k a month income just "because."

          2. For one time payment offers offer both paypal and credit card options. You'll convert more. PayPal is a great low risk option for one time transactions.

          3. Have a merchant account. In fact have two... so you always have a backup. Don't be cheap. Its your business and its a lot less expensive to pay for a backup than to suddenly find your self without any options or income.
          I am using PayPal for recurring subscriptions as a secondary payment option to Credit Card using SagePay(aka Protx) as the payment processor.

          Please can you elaborate of the monkey's finger - are you saying that the suspension will block all recurring inbound payments and not just block my ability to transfer money out? If the former is the case then this would be a complete nightmare if the dispute resolution takes any more than a week.

          Thanks for the advice
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    • Profile picture of the author Owen Smith
      Originally Posted by GR Marketing View Post

      I know the pain of having money frozen and stolen by Paypal.

      They have closed my two accounts and have over $10,000 of mine under lock and key for 6 months. The whole time they are earning returns on my money with their Money Market program funded by other people's frozen and highjacked funds.

      They are scammers, liars, frauds and cheats and their customer no-service department is a joke.

      I'd suggest everyone seek an alternative payment processor as a backup if you're relying on them alone.

      Be very weary of Paypal as they have a long documented history of running a really bad business: PayPal Alternative - Pay Pal Lawsuits, PayPal Complaints & Fraud

      I use 2checkout and Google Checkout right now and I couldn't be happier with them. The only downside is that you have to wait 2-3 days to get access to your money, but for the peace of mind that comes with dealing with reputable companies who actually care about their users, this is a small pittance to pay.

      I don't have to worry about limitations or funds getting frozen after running a successful campaign.
      No returns or interest are earned by paypal on frozen accounts. It is set into a 0% accoutn and never counted as their own. I have confirmed this with them.
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      • Profile picture of the author ckweb
        Originally Posted by Owen Smith View Post

        No returns or interest are earned by paypal on frozen accounts. It is set into a 0% accoutn and never counted as their own. I have confirmed this with them.
        LOL get real. How'd you confirm it? One of their $10 an hour cs reps? :p
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  • Profile picture of the author Lazy
    I transfer the balance out of my main paypal account every single business day because I've heard horror stories.

    I use paypal because it's the devil that I, and the rest of the community here, know.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sheryl Polomka
      Originally Posted by Lazy View Post

      I transfer the balance out of my main paypal account every single business day because I've heard horror stories.

      I use paypal because it's the devil that I, and the rest of the community here, know.
      Transferring money out regularly is a good idea, however they can reverse it! I've had it happen when I set up an account solely to use to raise money for a charity event. Although admittedly I didn't go about the whole charity thing properly so Paypal limited (permanently) the account. Even though I had transferred the money out, they reversed the last transfer, which was a big one and put a hold on that payment.

      I have had issues with Paypal and I know many others that have too, I would never rely solely on them. I use 2Checkout now and love their setup and their service. My customers can still pay with Paypal, but it doesn't affect my Paypal account it goes into 2CO paypal account.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Henderson
        Originally Posted by Sheryl Polomka View Post

        My customers can still pay with Paypal, but it doesn't affect my Paypal account it goes into 2CO paypal account.
        Sheryl, can you just clarify this?

        You offer PayPal as a payment option for your customers, but they actually pay into 2CO's PP account?

        And it's 2CO who transfer money into your bank account rather than PayPal?
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    • Profile picture of the author M Thompson
      Originally Posted by Lazy View Post

      I transfer the balance out of my main paypal account every single business day because I've heard horror stories.

      I use paypal because it's the devil that I, and the rest of the community here, know.

      I never transfer the whole balance. I have actually heard that transferring all the balance can trigger alarms as it can make it difficult for paypal to deal with refunds and charge backs
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  • Profile picture of the author pettmac
    If you have money on Paypal then all you have to do is to get it right away and encash it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dave Rodman
      Banned
      I've run several million dollars of transactions through paypal over the years and NEVER had an issue. And when I say never, I mean never.

      On the other hand, I've used 2 merchant accounts that came highly recommended and both of them were a total pain. The first one just kept about $10K for no reason. At first I had to prove they were doing it, then finally they agreed and then just released the funds...no explanation. The 2nd merchant account made me send proof of deliveries for about 50 orders to "get comfortable". After that, they kept asking for them every week. Finally I just got sick of it and switched back to paypal.

      I've heard John Reese and other gurus say the same thing. On launch days, Paypal doesn't blink, while Merchant accounts have a hissy fit.
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      • Profile picture of the author Brandon Tillman
        Paypal...I heard some crazy stories about them from all over the net and it does make me reconsider on whether to keep them as a payment processor in my business. But, me personally I never had a problem with them as long as my money was coming in legitely. But as Lazy stated, I withdraw my earning every single moment they come rolling into my account and I take no chances because it can become a messy situation if you let it build up for awhile.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Sieverding
    I personally have never had any problems with Paypal. But whenever I have more than $200 in there I take it out and put it in the bank. Best thing anyone could do actually, just constantly take the money out.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alfredo Carrion
      Originally Posted by ToxicSteve View Post

      I personally have never had any problems with Paypal. But whenever I have more than $200 in there I take it out and put it in the bank. Best thing anyone could do actually, just constantly take the money out.
      I think normally they can take it out from your bank account if they want. For example, if they need to issue a refund and you don't have enough money in your Paypal account.
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      • Profile picture of the author PhoebeSmellyCat
        Originally Posted by Alfredocoach View Post

        I think normally they can take it out from your bank account if they want. For example, if they need to issue a refund and you don't have enough money in your Paypal account.
        I don't think they are allowed to do that without your consent.
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        • Profile picture of the author Silas Hart
          Originally Posted by PhoebeSmellyCat View Post

          I don't think they are allowed to do that without your consent.
          They are if you have a PayPal account, meaning that you have agreed to their Terms of Service.
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        • Profile picture of the author Ehanson
          I haven't had any problem after using them for a couple of years but I have a backup payment processor if anything happens. I always transfer money my right into my bank account when I receive payments/ orders.

          The only thing I don't like about PayPal is that there were so many steps to get my account set up, I'm glad they're taking precautions but I felt like I was getting security clearance with the NSA. I'm not sure if it's like that still.

          And as others have said they can take money out of your bank account as it states in the TOS, that's something to take note of and be watchful of.
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        • Profile picture of the author sylviad
          Originally Posted by PhoebeSmellyCat View Post

          I don't think they are allowed to do that without your consent.
          To use a Business account, you need to give them 2 sources of finance - a credit card, two if you have another one, or a bank account. The purpose is for their security, should your PayPal account not have sufficient funds to pay refunds and such.

          So it seems to me that this alone should tell you that by giving them this information, you are giving them consent. Otherwise, having this information would be useless to PayPal, and therefore pointless.

          BTW, love your sig.

          Sylvia
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          • Profile picture of the author PhoebeSmellyCat
            Originally Posted by sylviad View Post

            To use a Business account, you need to give them 2 sources of finance - a credit card, two if you have another one, or a bank account. The purpose is for their security, should your PayPal account not have sufficient funds to pay refunds and such.

            So it seems to me that this alone should tell you that by giving them this information, you are giving them consent. Otherwise, having this information would be useless to PayPal, and therefore pointless.

            BTW, love your sig.

            Sylvia
            Ah! It's been quite a while since I've checked on their TOS and I believe at that time I only had a personal account.

            I think at that time (when they first started), the terms where something to the effect of "Paypal will not access your bank account without your prior approval". It was for when you didn't have enough in you Paypal account to buy something so you authorized Paypal to take it from your bank account.

            They keep changing their TOS and I haven't really kept up.
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            • Profile picture of the author notrichyet
              I'm curious, has anyone selling digital products such as PLR stopped using Paypal and as a result did their sales drop because people primarily use it to buy things like PLR? I'm just curious about the mindset of the buyer in this case. Paypal has become quite easy and convenient from a buyer's perspective.

              I have had to call them on issues before and as I've been actively growing my business of late, I'm a little concerned about the prospect of them freezing up funds. I grant you they resolved it, but it gets to be a real pain to have to call them all the time on perfectly legitimate transactions.

              Additionally, with a marriage in the dumps, I've got some dings on my credit which could throw up the red flag. Their TOS indicates that having a credit score that is indicative of a high risk is reason for terminating the account. I think this is pretty vague and gives them a wide margin to go in and limit the account. What I find interesting is that they don't normally do this until you are making significant amounts of money.

              I'm actively looking for alternatives...

              Mary
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  • Profile picture of the author Silas Hart
    I've had enough of my own horror stories on PayPal, I almost never read others. It's not so fun to read stories in which you already know the outcome to. I don't care how popular you are in the "internet marketing field" - if you are supposably doing a million dollars a year through PayPal, you are a noob for the reason that PayPal is actually more expensive than a reputable merchant and payment processing account and you are throwing money down the drain. Hell, I save more money by using PayPal as my payment gateway and not having an actual PayPal account through PayPals' "PayFlow Pro."
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  • Profile picture of the author Leslie B
    I believe you give your consent for that at the moment you open an account. Can be wrong, but I believe it's somewhere in the agreement.

    Leslie
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  • Profile picture of the author Alfredo Carrion
    I have found this (maybe I should take a look at the agreement):

    They won't withdraw from your bank account to cover the amount they withold in expectation of the dispute decision - your paypal account will be in the negative as a result and any money coming in will go first to resolving the negative balance.

    If you lose the dispute, you'll have to pay off. If you don't, paypal will take the money from your bank account.
    https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/...if-a/m-p/85027
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    • Profile picture of the author PhoebeSmellyCat
      Originally Posted by Alfredocoach View Post

      I have found this (maybe I should take a look at the agreement):

      They won't withdraw from your bank account to cover the amount they withold in expectation of the dispute decision - your paypal account will be in the negative as a result and any money coming in will go first to resolving the negative balance.

      If you lose the dispute, you'll have to pay off. If you don't, paypal will take the money from your bank account.

      https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/...if-a/m-p/85027
      That makes no sense.

      If you lose, you have to pay it back.
      If you win, they take the money from your bank???

      That means you're screwed whether you win or lose.
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      • Profile picture of the author A P Geofrey
        Originally Posted by PhoebeSmellyCat View Post

        That makes no sense.

        If you lose, you have to pay it back.
        If you win, they take the money from your bank???

        That means you're screwed whether you win or lose.
        No!! that means you didn't understand a damn thing.

        He means that if you lose you will have to pay the money and if you don't pay the money then they will take it from your bank account, with or without your consent.
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  • Profile picture of the author JonWebContent
    I have used PayPal for buying and selling for 3-4 years with absolutely no problems. When I get paid, I withdraw the money either straight from the ATM (I have the PayPal card) or to my bank account. It doesn't really matter. I never let money sit in my PayPal account just in case. Plus, it doesn't earn any interest sitting there.
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  • Profile picture of the author Silas Hart
    There is a conflicting issue among WF when it comes to PayPal. When people come on here and report their unfortunate situations with PayPal, people who have most likely never transacted a single dollar through PayPal respond with information that is purely irrelevant. I call these people the "Normalcy Bias crowd" - You say "Look, PayPal is a risk, it's not a bad idea to look into other options for your business" and people come in with "Well, you must have done something wrong" or "You are in the wrong."

    If anyone has the right to say "PayPal is a ****ty evil company that only has an interest in collecting your money and pooling it together for a received interest while operating through legal loopholes" - It's me. Do I get on here and say that? No, not really. PayPal works for small timers, if you can't justify having an actual merchant account because you are just getting started and the whole process seems confusing, then by all means, go with PayPal. Just don't be a small timer and get on this forum and devalue the advice of people who do hundreds of thousands of dollars each year in transactions, and people who have had bad experiences with PayPal - just because you haven't had an experience in transacting the 10 bucks you earned selling a lava lamp on eBay.
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    • Profile picture of the author KadenP
      Originally Posted by FaJeeb View Post

      PayPal works for small timers, if you can't justify having an actual merchant account because you are just getting started and the whole process seems confusing, then by all means, go with PayPal. Just don't be a small timer and get on this forum and devalue the advice of people who do hundreds of thousands of dollars each year in transactions, and people who have had bad experiences with PayPal - just because you haven't had an experience in transacting the 10 bucks you earned selling a lava lamp on eBay.
      Right on, FaJeeb. The whole time I'm reading the thread I'm thinking to myself "The people that haven't had problems with PayPal haven't had problems simply because they're not making real money with them." Thanks for confirming what I figured.
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  • Profile picture of the author jushuaburnham
    I am using paypal for almost two years, if it is true what should we do, all of my clients prefer to use paypal for their remittance. Hope there are some alternative on paypal.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mary D
      I had a bad experience once. This was a couple of years ago, but it was due to a chargeback.

      After six months of receiving payment from a client, I get a chargeback...
      PP had to freeze my account, even tho it was after six months because
      it came from a credit card company.
      The client, this girl I was doing some banner design for her websites, and it seems she had linked her father's credit card to her PP account.

      It was more complicated because of that and because her father was the one who initiated chargeback directly with the credit card comp.

      So after wasting lots of time figuring all this out, I just refunded the money and asked for a check. It took me a few weeks to "unlock my account".

      Now a few years later, here I am, and almost all of my clients
      are using Paypal. I have a business paypal for my new llc, and I worry.
      I'm looking for alternatives and I prefer processors that handle sales tax..as in the future I want to sell pysical goods and digital goods.

      too bad fastspring is hard to integrate into shopping carts and doesn't
      accept physical goods.

      Mary
      I"ll always be a newbie.

      Originally Posted by jushuaburnham View Post

      I am using paypal for almost two years, if it is true what should we do, all of my clients prefer to use paypal for their remittance. Hope there are some alternative on paypal.
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      Mary
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  • Profile picture of the author jwardz
    Funny thing you should ask. I just did a post on the same subject. I am looking at WorldPay and Authorize Net. There are others out there. My friend is still tying to get money back from PayPal that disappeared from her account. There are stories all over the Internet about problems with PayPal. PayPal also has it in their rules that they can shut your account for 6 months if they see a sudden jump in a lot of money coming into your account, while they "investigate".
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  • Profile picture of the author GR Marketing
    @donhx:

    You don't have to be running a scam to get your money frozen by them. I was just like you at one point. I had been using them for a long time, years, no problems. Any disputes resolved the same day they were filed, hundreds of verified transactions.

    Last year, I ran an ezine solo-ad marketing campaign and took in a lot of new business to the tune of $10,000 or so in a few days and they limited my account, no warning.

    The kicker is that I called them and told them what I was about to do, showed them the salesletter, the product, where I was going to be advertising, etc.

    The customer-no service rep said it was ok, thanked me for calling and promised that my "account would be notated" about my up and coming promotion.

    Lo and behold they still froze my money and limited my account due to "suspicious activity."

    Who the hell knows what was so suspicious about an account that was subject to a heavy advertising campaign producing a large volume of new sales, and which was supposed to be notated as such.

    In my mind that seems to be what you would expect to happen, but apparently some genius in their limitations department felt as though something was amiss.

    I don't know what exactly set them off in my case, but they have such a laundry list of things that can get you limited that you'll always be walking on egg shells with them.

    Now my that account is limited, I have nearly $11 grand sitting there frozen for the full 180 days, and there isn't a damn thing I can do about it at all. People don't realize that once they accept their terms of service they are literally legally agreeing to have no legal recourse in the event of something like this happening to them. That's why you don't see any law suits.

    It sucks, but hey if you read the fine print it says, "We may screw you out of your money and hold it hostage for 6 months, at any time for any reason."

    Don't believe me well here you go:

    Originally Posted by Paypal TOS Section 10.4 Letter E

    "We may hold your funds for up to 180 days if reasonably needed to protect against the risk of liability"
    Just what the hell is the "risk of liability" that they talk about? What is it defined as? What makes something risky? Short answer, anything they want it to be! They have deliberately used this incredibly loose and vague language to create a blanket statement that will cover their behinds in any court room.

    Anyways, these ***holes really threw a huge wrench in the gears of my business for a little while there. Lesson learned, charge it to the game and move on.

    But you should never depend on a company with such a long and detailed track record of doing this to people.

    It's a racket they've got going on over there, and if it wasn't for the immense reach they have because of eBay forcing everyone to get a Paypal account to use their site, they would be nowhere near as successful for sure, IMHO.

    I always tell people to make sure that they have multiple payment processors at any one time, so if there's a problem you can continue earning while you get it sorted out.

    I honestly wish you and others success in using them, but as a warning, you can never truly really have any security or peace of mind with using such a volatile enterprise with a long and thorough history of customer complaints.

    Always be sure to stay proactive and always have backups so something similar doesn't happen to you.
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    • Profile picture of the author MaryReynolds
      Originally Posted by GR Marketing View Post

      @donhx:

      You don't have to be running a scam to get your money frozen by them. I was just like you at one point. I had been using them for a long time, years, no problems. Any disputes resolved the same day they were filed, hundreds of verified transactions.

      Last year, I ran an ezine solo-ad marketing campaign and took in a lot of new business to the tune of $10,000 or so in a few days and they limited my account, no warning.

      The kicker is that I called them and told them what I was about to do, showed them the salesletter, the product, where I was going to be advertising, etc.

      The customer-no service rep said it was ok, thanked me for calling and promised that my "account would be notated" about my up and coming promotion.

      Lo and behold they still froze my money and limited my account due to "suspicious activity."

      Who the hell knows what was so suspicious about an account that was subject to a heavy advertising campaign producing a large volume of new sales, and which was supposed to be notated as such.

      In my mind that seems to be what you would expect to happen, but apparently some genius in their limitations department felt as though something was amiss.

      I don't know what exactly set them off in my case, but they have such a laundry list of things that can get you limited that you'll always be walking on egg shells with them.

      Now my that account is limited, I have nearly $11 grand sitting there frozen for the full 180 days, and there isn't a damn thing I can do about it at all. People don't realize that once they accept their terms of service they are literally legally agreeing to have no legal recourse in the event of something like this happening to them. That's why you don't see any law suits.

      It sucks, but hey if you read the fine print it says, "We may screw you out of your money and hold it hostage for 6 months, at any time for any reason."

      Don't believe me well here you go:



      Just what the hell is the "risk of liability" that they talk about? What is it defined as? What makes something risky? Short answer, anything they want it to be! They have deliberately used this incredibly loose and vague language to create a blanket statement that will cover their behinds in any court room.

      Anyways, these ***holes really threw a huge wrench in the gears of my business for a little while there. Lesson learned, charge it to the game and move on.

      But you should never depend on a company with such a long and detailed track record of doing this to people.

      It's a racket they've got going on over there, and if it wasn't for the immense reach they have because of eBay forcing everyone to get a Paypal account to use their site, they would be nowhere near as successful for sure, IMHO.

      I always tell people to make sure that they have multiple payment processors at any one time, so if there's a problem you can continue earning while you get it sorted out.

      I honestly wish you and others success in using them, but as a warning, you can never truly really have any security or peace of mind with using such a volatile enterprise with a long and thorough history of customer complaints.

      Always be sure to stay proactive and always have backups so something similar doesn't happen to you.

      This guy speaks the truth!

      I have been in the same boat... having my money frozen for 180 days...

      However I am still using paypal simply because it's the easiest way to accept payments and every one expects you to have...

      Haven't really found a 'work around' for that.

      Mary
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    • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
      Originally Posted by GR Marketing View Post

      @donhx:

      Just what the hell is the "risk of liability" that they talk about? What is it defined as? What makes something risky? Short answer, anything they want it to be! They have deliberately used this incredibly loose and vague language to create a blanket statement that will cover their behinds in any court room.
      As will any merchant account or payment processor

      And a merchant account is much quicker to pull the plug and keep back a release

      2co keep a release right from the start as do clickbank, Im suprised paypal doesn't keep a release fund right from the start too but they dont.

      Have they ever pulled the trigger in haste and created collateral damage probably

      But in the vast majority of cases they get it right, and they are a lot less risky than most proccessors on balance.
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  • Profile picture of the author brandon2664
    It can only be as dangerous as you let it. Once your balance hits $500 or $1000 just dump the money in your bank account.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jake Gray
    Think about this for a moment.

    Never have I been a fan of PayPal, I kid you not.

    Being one of the most common and accepted payment options, you will run into a risk of your PayPal being locked if you are selling items avidly on the internet. As someone has stated above more than once, I'd recommend keeping in funds you absolutely need and transfer the rest to your bank account.

    I have had issues previously with PayPal. Their support is quite clueless, very unreliable. I would of thought such a large payment processor would provide quality training.

    So... My solution to this issue?

    Open an merchant account. You can get some nice ones for fairly cheap.

    I know my information here has probably been stated above, but I just wanted to let you know that you guys aren't alone. Especially the OP of this thread.


    Quick EDIT:

    I just remembered something. When I had my account frozen, this must of been the 3rd time that year, I just asked for them to mail me my check and close my account. I didn't have to wait on the 180 funds lock.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Dulisse
      I use paypal a lot. They limited me about 15k last year because of huge volumes going in. But then after 90 days when they saw I am low risk, they released it, and now I can still have large volumes with no limits.

      Paypal does not like it when you have huge volumes going in, and you do withdrawals. They will want to protect themselves against credit card chargebacks, disputes, etc.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mufasa
      Wow folks! Thanks. I must admit I was blissfully ignorant about the down side of PayPal. I didn't see anything about 2Checkout or any other service having this much emotion attached. What I have learned here you can't get in a classroom.

      Again, thanks for sharing. Both the pros and the cons.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mufasa
      Wow folks! Thanks. I must admit I was blissfully ignorant about the down side of PayPal. I didn't see anything about 2Checkout or any other service having this much emotion attached. What I have learned here you can't get in a classroom.

      Again, thanks for sharing. Both the pros and the cons.
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    • Profile picture of the author entry
      Dangerous to rely on PayPal, you should look for alternatives at the same time, if paypal frooze you then you would be stuck.

      paypal doesnt understand product launches.
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    • Profile picture of the author pringrod
      I must admit, I've used paypal for years and never had a problem.. saying that I better bear this in mind.. got some alternatives like moneybookers etc in reserve though!!
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      • Profile picture of the author hwtran
        This is scary. I've never had a problem with PayPal myself, but it sounds like maybe I should knock on some wood.

        Do the payment processors that charge higher fees have a lower rate of this sort of thing happening, or do we just hope they do because they're charging higher fees? (Not to sound skeptical or cynical...Just really wonder what others' experiences have been?)

        Heidi
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    • Profile picture of the author mike_topguy
      I have used paypal now for many years, and it can be an issue dealing with them, because they reserve the right for no apparent reason to block ur account and hold all funds, and believe me they can drag on the process for a long time, legal letters have helped me in the past to resolve some situations.

      thats just my .02$
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      • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
        PayPal is very dangerous to rely on.

        Merchant accounts can be spotty too.

        The dollar isn't looking so hot either.

        Best thing to do is to only accept payments in the form of gold or silver bullion.

        Customers may be fewer, but at least you'll have the high road in terms of monetary security.
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        • Profile picture of the author John Henderson
          Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

          Best thing to do is to only accept payments in the form of gold or silver bullion.
          Gold or silver? No wonder I can't purchase your latest WSO! I've been trying to pay with goat's cheese and hen's eggs.... :rolleyes:
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        • Profile picture of the author donhx
          Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

          PayPal is very dangerous to rely on.

          Merchant accounts can be spotty too.

          The dollar isn't looking so hot either.

          Best thing to do is to only accept payments in the form of gold or silver bullion.

          Customers may be fewer, but at least you'll have the high road in terms of monetary security.

          Exactly! And bury your gold in your backyard. It's the only secure method, unless your neighbor spots you digging at midnight.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dean Jackson
      This has been brought up many times... I don't see why people have so much trouble with PayPal. These "horror stories" are really only a small part of the whole. If you really think about it, this is only a VERY small portion of people (it seems big when you get a ton of PP users together, or on a "hate" site collectively).

      But the majority of users are OK. Nobody comes here to rave about it when things are going good.

      It is a legitimate cause for concern, but I live in Australia and have registered as a business which may be 1 reason I've kept out of trouble so far (not sure what the procedure is in the states, but I recommend everyone look into it).

      And one more thing: I usually deal with a regular dude who works there, if I have any trouble then I get him on the phone and he handles it for me

      That's why you should build relationships!

      Dean

      Note: the only time my account got frozen was when I had to "verify" my identity after a certain threshold quite a while ago - the second was to inform them that I would be getting a lot of large transactions... the other time was when an echeck hadn't cleared for a bit - but over all, PP gets the job done.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel F. Lavoie
    More than 150k$ have transited via my PayPal account so far. PayPal called me at my first launch (20k in a few days) just to make sure I wasn't a scam or anything.

    The lovely lady told me that she "was impressed by the volume in such a short time" and wished me good luck with my business.

    Here's the rule with PayPal : If they call you - PICK UP the phone or you are screwed.
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    • Profile picture of the author ckweb
      Originally Posted by Daniel F. Lavoie View Post

      More than 150k$ have transited via my PayPal account so far. PayPal called me at my first launch (20k in a few days) just to make sure I wasn't a scam or anything.

      The lovely lady told me that she "was impressed by the volume in such a short time" and wished me good luck with my business.

      Here's the rule with PayPal : If they call you - PICK UP the phone or you are screwed.
      Definitely keep your phone on you.

      We've called them beforehand to let them know about a launch. They tell us its all good and they have it noted. Next day we launch... account freezes.

      Call them up, nothing they can do. Sorry.
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      • Profile picture of the author Daniel F. Lavoie
        Originally Posted by ckweb View Post

        Definitely keep your phone on you.

        We've called them beforehand to let them know about a launch. They tell us its all good and they have it noted. Next day we launch... account freezes.

        Call them up, nothing they can do. Sorry.
        I called them too prior to my launch - even with this note to my account - they called me during the launch because their system had flagged my account.

        Just make sure you keep your cellphone with you during high volume time and you won't have any problems.
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        • Profile picture of the author paulie888
          Originally Posted by Daniel F. Lavoie View Post

          I called them too prior to my launch - even with this note to my account - they called me during the launch because their system had flagged my account.

          Just make sure you keep your cellphone with you during high volume time and you won't have any problems.
          Paypal tends to get a little paranoid about unusual activity in your account, which is why it's always a good idea to call them especially when you're expecting a sudden influx of payments into your account over a short period of time.

          I have them in my phone address book, and make it a habit to call them whenever I think this might occur for me.
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      • Profile picture of the author Silas Hart
        Originally Posted by ckweb View Post

        Definitely keep your phone on you.

        We've called them beforehand to let them know about a launch. They tell us its all good and they have it noted. Next day we launch... account freezes.

        Call them up, nothing they can do. Sorry.
        That is sig worthy.
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  • Profile picture of the author ckweb
    Relying on PayPal is like relying on your grandma to do a 5 minute mile. There's a few of you that can attest to this, but probably a lot more that are out of luck.

    I've had about 20 PayPal accounts closed in the past 5 years. Some were my fault, some a customers, one was a dropshippers, and the other 14 or so times were various broad reasons.

    My favorite is when they ask for your SSN, Drivers License, all your suppliers' information, invoices, receipts, blood samples, hair samples, urnie tests, an affidavid to name your child 'paypal' and then after all that...

    You get the "we no longer wish to do business with you so we are going to go ahead and hold your money for 180 days (6 months) while we play with the stock market and earn interest and residuals off it. Oh, and the by the way, we don't pay interest on the money we're holding". "Oh yeah.. if you dont keep that bank account open for those 6 months, we will just keep your money forever".

    Anybody know what I'm talking about here?
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  • Profile picture of the author EliteIM
    There have been a couple of WSO's on this topic. I have one of them, the paypal code and it had good information about 2-3 ways to ensure you are never outdone by pp.
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  • Profile picture of the author derrickschwan
    I don't mind, paypal is doing fine for me so far. My clients feel comfortable on that payment method.
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  • Profile picture of the author Strange
    Unfortunately i have lost my trust with PayPal, the problem is i opened the account in Gibraltar and moved to Australia a year down the line, i had no large payments payed to my account in that period.

    When money started coming in they froze my account upon the withdrawal request and had me prove i was the card holder, fair enough. They asked for a Utility bill, i could not provide this as i was travelling and had no water, gas bill in my name to be faxed to them.

    When i had to prove i was the owner of the card i couldn't change my country address without opening a new account, i opened a new account but as the money was frozen i couldn't transfer it across, i had to explain all this to the support.

    After several phone calls to different support agents i had my mum prove i was legit. I had to give them permission for my mum to resolve issues.. very secure.

    I now want to use another card as i have left Australia and now live in New Zealand, lesson learnt i will not open a new account until i have a Utility Bill i my name.. so unfortunately my business goes from USD to an AUD Bank to a NZD Bank..

    I'm too worried if they freeze my account by transferring money from USD to NZD.
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  • Profile picture of the author Quentin
    I have never hear any of these stories about Paypal except in here.

    I use other forums, ebay forums etc and almost never hear these stories.

    So I guess if you are looking for them you will find them and with 6 million plus users there will be some bad stories. But what about the other 5,800,000 who use it every day and have no problems.

    Quentin
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  • Profile picture of the author greenhobo
    I fully agree PayPal is not very friendly to the consumer anymore. They simply make there own rules and we have to stick by them. I have heard many instances where they will just shut you down for no reason. But i also think some of those people have to be scamming too. There is really nothing we will ever be able to do about it simply because they are not regulated by the FTC they act as a bank but with there own scheming rules.
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  • Profile picture of the author nicelife
    I've never had any problems with them fortunately but this thread makes me a bit worried :-(

    It's a huge problem that there's no serious competitor to PayPal.
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  • Profile picture of the author alcymart
    I lost $3200 to Paypal in 2004 or 05. Froze my account for no reason, but since then, never had another issue. I aways keep under $500 in Paypal since then.

    Take care,

    Bernard St-Pierre
    Marketing Consultant
    Copywriter/Teacher
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    • Profile picture of the author celente
      Originally Posted by alcymart View Post

      I lost $3200 to Paypal in 2004 or 05. Froze my account for no reason, but since then, never had another issue. I aways keep under $500 in Paypal since then.

      Take care,

      Bernard St-Pierre
      Marketing Consultant
      Copywriter/Teacher
      Very intresting bernard. I have done two big launches in the last 6 months. Continuity and just for a product. The membership site lauch I did bought in a truckload of money (no giong to reveal) but it was enough for paypal to freeze my damn account.

      I am from oz, and had to stay up to 3am to call them. LOL. They were not too skeptical, but maybe I should just keep a minimum in my account from now on. That is a great idea...thanks. Do not want to risk losing the money of my fruits and labor. :p
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  • Profile picture of the author daj
    I only have one paypal horror story so far from back in 2008. I paid an upfront fee ($50) for a website designer to make a mock-up design for me on another forum.

    I tried contacting him for a week after the date he said it would be ready, but both of his emails gave me failure notices.

    So I made a dispute/claim on paypal about the issue, but they eventually sided in his favor after 3-4 weeks even though I never received anything from the designer and his emails didn't work.

    Luckily it was only $50 I lost, but still looks bad on PayPal's part. So much for their claims specialist looking into things. Lesson learned: Never give anyone an upfront fee for anything online unless it's held in escrow.
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  • Profile picture of the author pethanks
    Yes I agree because I read a lot of cases against this Paypal. But for now, I am still using it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Silas Hart
      When it comes to PayPal, people defend their normalcy biased mindset.

      I am not Anti-PayPal, lets get that straight. I am not Pro-PayPal either.

      PayPal is just very automated, and they are huge. PayPal simply can not dedicate manpower to working on case by case issues with their users. People assume that PayPal has hundreds of thousands of workers to dedicate to the issues of tens of millions of users. This is not so. Does this make them a bad company? Who am I to say what makes a company bad?

      Lets also get this straight. PayPal CAN freeze your funds, disallow access to funds, and hold said funds for 180 days by the will and power of automation. Nobody loses an account for no reason, but that does Not mean that reason is of any kind of mischief. Even my own mother has been locked out by PayPal and all she did was sell homemade hospital scrubs. People have sold things on eBay and donated 100% of their earnings to the Red Cross have had their accounts frozen. Sometimes money stays in a dormant account, and PayPal decides to lock and freeze it. Sometimes you log into your PayPal account from your laptops wifi and you are connected through an IP that was once used to sell fake Lady Gaga tickets on eBay. It doesn't matter, by the time your account is frozen, the game is pretty much over. Most of their users do not have the knowledge or financial means to uphold their rights and have their funds released to them. Many do not even try to retrieve their funds after their funds have been frozen for 6 months.

      Relying on just one single transacting company and not having your own interests and the interests of your customers at heart makes you one stupid entrepreneur. People should have back ups for EVERYTHING they do. Everyone should have some kind of money sitting an account to be able to give to customers in case something happens.

      Something to consider. The largest eBay Sellers do Not use PayPal directly, but instead use PayPal as a gateway to their actual merchant accounts, called PayFlow Pro. Most have even been advised to do so eBay/PayPal.

      But again, relying on one company to be the financial lifeline of whatever you do online is just silly. Nobody can argue that.
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  • Profile picture of the author Channing
    Banned
    I think Alert Pay is a good option to PayPal. More and more people are using AP and they are less of a headache to deal with, but I still use PayPal 99% of the time.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sam Thompson
    I to use Paypal and transfer out every business day ( never trusted them really heard to much bad stories)

    Considering using Google Checkout
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  • Profile picture of the author matekat
    After that, they kept asking for them every week. Finally I just got sick of it and switched back to paypal.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Miranda
    Like others have said, transferring money out is always a good idea in case Paypal wants to do something screwy.
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    • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
      Originally Posted by imationx View Post

      Like others have said, transferring money out is always a good idea in case Paypal wants to do something screwy.

      Actually doing this puts up a red flag... they look for accounts with large amounts of money coming in and immeadiatly being withdrawn.

      It looks like money laundering especially in the US with the patriots act rules

      Taking money out of paypal and putting it in your bank doesnt protect you, they can still reverse it and if you take it out of your bank then you will have a bank overdraft to deal with.

      Paypal are no more risk than any payment processor they just do large volumes from online merchants hence the scare stories
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  • Profile picture of the author bhola badshah
    Heard many bad things about paypal, I would suggest to see 2co, plimus and moneybookers.
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  • Profile picture of the author russjam
    PayPal is a great way to get started for small businesses due to low/no set up charges.

    However, once the money going through the account is too big to lose then it is time to get a Merchant Account.

    I take one-time and recurring payments mainly through a Merchant Account but have PayPal as an alternative payment option.

    After reading this article my confidence in PayPal is dented and I will now operate with a lower limit on the PayPal account before transferring funds to a "real account".

    I have not tried Google Checkout? Is this a worthy alternative?
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  • Profile picture of the author masterofinternate
    May be I'm lucky that paypal is not available in my country. But the existing payment methods are also very painful. I've to pay a big servicing charge before withdrawn of currency.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Henderson
    Does anyone have any experience with Amazon Payments? :confused:

    https://payments.amazon.com/sdui/sdu...s/asp/standard
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  • Profile picture of the author Ben Gordon
    I've also heard terrible stories with PayPal. Some big internet marketers had their accounts closed down for "suspicious activity".

    One example is Mark Persson. He created a game called "MineCraft" which became viral after a few months. A couple of months ago PayPal closed his account with $750,000. And don't say he doesn't withdraw his money, he does at the end of each week, which is reasonable. But myself, even if I'm making $100,000 per day, I would've withdrawn my money every day, not week.

    Here's the story if you want to read about it: The Escapist : News : PayPal Freezes $750K in MineCraft Dev's Account

    Ben
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  • Profile picture of the author simonbuzz
    Banned
    Paypal is good but it's risky...
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  • Profile picture of the author michaeldoring
    Originally Posted by sam770 View Post

    Guys,
    Recently I read more and more that PayPal simply cancel people accounts, sometimes without a good reason
    I love PayPal and use it a lot but I feel that its too risky to put all eggs on one basket
    Do you guys know of any good alternative for payment solution that support also people from OUTSIDE of the US and WITHOUT the need to open credit card merchant account?
    Sorry, but I don't the in's and outs of payment providers, so unfortunately I don't know if in US, or need credit card to signup. However, I can think of the following Payment Service Providers, try checking them out:
    • Adyen
    • Authorize.net
    • Moneybookers
    • Neteller
    • PayPoint.net
    • Wirecard
    • WebMoney

    Personally, I have never had a problem with PayPal. Furthermore, PayPal is to Online Payment Providers, as Google is to search, - the market share leader. So a few horror stories does not mean PayPal is evil reincarnated into a payment processor.

    The lesser known names probably have their own horror stories, I would personally stick with PayPal, but if you find a better option please PM me. Goodluck.
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  • Profile picture of the author NestZone
    You get sick of PayPal, because of frozen funds or limits set, BUT that is what consumers prefer to us because they get protected.

    Therefore you have no other choice than to play by the rules and stick to the market or you go collecting peanuts with other processors.
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  • Profile picture of the author linxye
    Dam..This post is very scary! I heard bad stories about paypal but I never had any problem with them. Hope that I never willl. Still, think it is wise to have other alternatives. Such a merchant account. I will seriously look at it. Thanks for the post!
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  • Profile picture of the author anthony2
    google checkout
    authorize.net
    alertpay
    safepay
    googlecheckout
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  • Profile picture of the author anthony2
    does googlecheckout offer redirect after the sale?

    i believe thats the biggest downer when using google checkout
    i believe you can't redirect to the download page after the sale.
    that will be the downfall if you are selling digital information products
    like ebooks.

    you will have email the download page to the customer manually.
    if you are getting tons of sales per day then that could be really time consuming.
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